making Kingdom Come the "real" future
fette...@my-dejanews.com
and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of the
DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea? I loved Kingdom Come and
consider it to be the best story in comics since TDKR. It was also the best
developed Elseworlds concept to date. I also recognize that it is not
inconceivable that KC may actually fit into current DCU continuity (that dark
period referred to in LSH stories which occurs between 20th century DCU and
30th century DCU).
I guess that my main problem with making KC part of continuity is that it
feels like the worst kind of retconning. Why can't we have a terrific story
that stands on its own? Why do we have to tie everything together so that
this villian was present at this hero's origin but the hero's true father is
actually the helpful scientist, yadda yadda yadda...? Now, I acknowledge
that I am a completist, and I like it when different parts of a universe fit
together in a way that makes sense and is, well, artistic.
If DC can pull this off, it'll take the best creators in (and out) of the
business. And while I know Bill Clinton will join the priesthood before Alan
Moore comes back to DC, I think they need to get folks like Frank Miller on
board.
Dave Fetterman
"The wages of sin are death... but after you're done taking out the taxes,
it's just kind of a tired feeling."
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Dan McEwen
>I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing characters
>and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of the
>DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
It's not gonna happen. Trust me. DC may do a "Days of Future Past"
suggestion that it *could* happen, but it won't. Ever.
Dan
fe...@lsh.org
Home Page - http://home.att.net/~djmcewen
Fanfic - http://home.att.net/~djmcewen/Integrated.html
fette...@my-dejanews.com
fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen) wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:52:42 GMT, fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing characters
> >and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of the
> >DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
>
> It's not gonna happen. Trust me. DC may do a "Days of Future Past"
> suggestion that it *could* happen, but it won't. Ever.
>
> Dan
But then what is going to happen during the "Kingdom Week" that I guess is
happening in Decemeber? And what is the point of an ongoing Kingdom series if
it's just in the same vein as DOFP?
Dave
"The wages of sin are death. But, after you take taxes out, all you've got is
Bennet Marks
>
> In article <35db0227...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen) wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:52:42 GMT, fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > >I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing characters
> > >and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of the
> > >DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
> >
> > It's not gonna happen. Trust me. DC may do a "Days of Future Past"
> > suggestion that it *could* happen, but it won't. Ever.
> >
> > Dan
>
> But then what is going to happen during the "Kingdom Week" that I guess is
> happening in Decemeber? And what is the point of an ongoing Kingdom series if
> it's just in the same vein as DOFP?
Well, sales, obviously. And constant teasing. But I have to agree with
Dan - KC will never come to pass in DCU "real-time". Blow up Lois
Lane? Let Batman and Superman age? Maybe in an ELSEWORLDS or a
"possible future", but not in the monthly books.
As ever,
Bennet
Keith Trotter
>
> I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing characters
> and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of the
> DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
I wouldn't worry. While there may still be a Kingdom ongoing series, I
just can't see DC mirroring the events necessary to achieve the premise
of KC. Imagine Lois dead, the Joker dead and Superman retired for years
(not to mention the years in between that would be dominated by the bad
heroes such as Magog that KC was a reaction _against_.)
Keith
¬¬¬¬¬
(although a _very_ brave move by DC would be to set its entire universe
_post KC_ and avoid the Superman retired/anti-hero years)
Chris
Bennet Marks wrote:
> fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <35db0227...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> > fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen) wrote:
> > > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:52:42 GMT, fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing characters
> > > >and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of the
> > > >DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
> > >
> > > It's not gonna happen. Trust me. DC may do a "Days of Future Past"
> > > suggestion that it *could* happen, but it won't. Ever.
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
> > But then what is going to happen during the "Kingdom Week" that I guess is
> > happening in Decemeber? And what is the point of an ongoing Kingdom series if
> > it's just in the same vein as DOFP?
>
> Well, sales, obviously. And constant teasing. But I have to agree with
> Dan - KC will never come to pass in DCU "real-time". Blow up Lois
> Lane? Let Batman and Superman age? Maybe in an ELSEWORLDS or a
> "possible future", but not in the monthly books.
unless of course, if the industry does go under. They might make it the 'official'
end to put a finality on the books. That would be sort of nice.... If we were never
going to get another comic-book again... (I'd prefer that they'd do that with Batman:
The Dark Knight Returns, if they ever had to... But I suppose it only effects a few
of the charters....)
--
~Chris
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right
to tell people what they do not want to hear."
-George Orwell
To reply toss out my %CanO'SpamAway%
Daniel Henschel
be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
Chris
Daniel Henschel wrote:
> KC is not becoming the official future in the Kingdom Event.
Are you replying to my post? I think you'd better go back and read it
again, because I never said it was.....
> What will
> be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
> tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
> timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
> the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
> 2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
--
moron...@hotmail.com
LEA...@webtv.net (Daniel Henschel) wrote:
> KC is not becoming the official future in the Kingdom Event. What will
> be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
> tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
> timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
> the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
> 2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
He was saying "it's all true" to shut you morons up.
John Bilow
>In article <10047-35...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>,
> LEA...@webtv.net (Daniel Henschel) wrote:
>> KC is not becoming the official future in the Kingdom Event. What will
>> be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
>> tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
>> timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
>> the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
>> 2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
>
>He was saying "it's all true" to shut you morons up.
Thank you for that intelligent (one line) post Omar. It's fun to see you show
off your intellect.
John Bilow
To reply, remove "spamsucks" from my address
Glenn Simpson
Bennet Marks wrote in message <35DB55...@aol.com>...
>fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> In article <35db0227...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
>> fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen) wrote:
>> > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:52:42 GMT, fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> >
>> > >I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing
characters
>> > >and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future
of the
>> > >DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
>> >
>> > It's not gonna happen. Trust me. DC may do a "Days of Future Past"
>> > suggestion that it *could* happen, but it won't. Ever.
>> >
>> > Dan
>>
>> But then what is going to happen during the "Kingdom Week" that I guess
is
>> happening in Decemeber? And what is the point of an ongoing Kingdom
series if
>> it's just in the same vein as DOFP?
>
>Well, sales, obviously. And constant teasing. But I have to agree with
>Dan - KC will never come to pass in DCU "real-time". Blow up Lois
>Lane? Let Batman and Superman age? Maybe in an ELSEWORLDS or a
>"possible future", but not in the monthly books.
>
I agree. Three years from now, editorial policy will have changed and
nothing they did this year to progress in that direction will matter.
It's sort like when the Adult Legion was first presented in the 60's. They
were all adult versions of the Legion as they were being presented at that
time (costumes and such). Later, the costumes changed, make it unlikely
that the Adult Legion stories would happen as originally presented. Oddly
enough, there was a push to get the characters back into their old costumes
for a while there to make it look like they would get to the adult legion,
but they gave up after a while.
Overall, this is why I don't care much for "future" stories. They're never
canon.
emy...@hotmail.com
BHM...@aol.com wrote:
> fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <35db0227...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> > fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen) wrote:
> > > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:52:42 GMT, fette...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >I keep reading here and there that DC is planning on developing
characters
> > > >and events in an attempt to have Kingdom Come become the actual future of
the
> > > >DCU. Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
> > >
> > > It's not gonna happen. Trust me. DC may do a "Days of Future Past"
> > > suggestion that it *could* happen, but it won't. Ever.
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
> > But then what is going to happen during the "Kingdom Week" that I guess is
> > happening in Decemeber? And what is the point of an ongoing Kingdom series
if
> > it's just in the same vein as DOFP?
>
> Well, sales, obviously. And constant teasing. But I have to agree with
> Dan - KC will never come to pass in DCU "real-time". Blow up Lois
> Lane? Let Batman and Superman age? Maybe in an ELSEWORLDS or a
> "possible future", but not in the monthly books.
Remember, the point is to prevent KC from happening.
Now pretend not to remember what Claremont tried to do with his Days of Future
Past stories in X-Men and play along. Pretend that you hadn't read about a
superbeing from the future going to the past and the people in the past end up
preventing the alternate future.
david_f...@iridium.com
LEA...@webtv.net (Daniel Henschel) wrote:
> KC is not becoming the official future in the Kingdom Event. What will
> be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
> tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
> timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
> the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
> 2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
>
Thanks Dan. I'm left wondering if, given that the DCU will have (or now has)
alternate futures, how long before alternate presents, pasts, and ultimately,
a return to the multiverse?
Dave - hoping Chris Rock really does stomp on Kenneth Starr
david_f...@iridium.com
emy...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Remember, the point is to prevent KC from happening.
> Now pretend not to remember what Claremont tried to do with his Days of Future
> Past stories in X-Men and play along. Pretend that you hadn't read about a
> superbeing from the future going to the past and the people in the past end up
> preventing the alternate future.
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
Ugh. You're making my head hurt.
Dwight Williams
(david_f...@iridium.com) writes:
> In article <10047-35...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>,
> LEA...@webtv.net (Daniel Henschel) wrote:
>> KC is not becoming the official future in the Kingdom Event. What will
>> be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
>> tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
>> timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
>> the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
>> 2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
>>
>
> Thanks Dan. I'm left wondering if, given that the DCU will have (or now has)
> alternate futures, how long before alternate presents, pasts, and ultimately,
> a return to the multiverse?
That return has *already* happened...and it seems no one see the obvious.
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Accidental Founder - _Chase_ Flame Keepers' Society
Chris
Eric L Bailey wrote:
> >Ugh. You're making my head hurt.
>
> Wasn't that what Alan Moore had planned in his big crossover story?
> Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
> of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.
Which one is that? Ever-memory lapsing ~Chris
Eric L Bailey
>In article <6rj92g$kq6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> emy...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Remember, the point is to prevent KC from happening.
>> Now pretend not to remember what Claremont tried to do with his Days of Future
>> Past stories in X-Men and play along. Pretend that you hadn't read about a
>> superbeing from the future going to the past and the people in the past end up
>> preventing the alternate future.
>>
>> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>>
>
>Ugh. You're making my head hurt.
Wasn't that what Alan Moore had planned in his big crossover story?
Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.
E
Eric L Bailey
Williams) wrote:
>
> (david_f...@iridium.com) writes:
>> In article <10047-35...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>,
>> LEA...@webtv.net (Daniel Henschel) wrote:
>>> KC is not becoming the official future in the Kingdom Event. What will
>>> be happening is to make it a possible future, rather than an Elseworlds
>>> tale. I also get the suggeston that the KE will be returning alternate
>>> timelines to the DCU. Mark Waid's only comment (constantly repeated) on
>>> the matter at Comic-con 98 was, "It's ALL true!" ie., KC, Armageddon
>>> 2000, Kamandi, the Team Titans future, etc. are ALL true.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Dan. I'm left wondering if, given that the DCU will have (or now has)
>> alternate futures, how long before alternate presents, pasts, and ultimately,
>> a return to the multiverse?
>
>That return has *already* happened...and it seems no one see the obvious.
Are we discussing alternate timelines that run from the main
continuity? If so, yes, we've had that for some time now. Some seem
to be interpreting this as meaning a return of Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth
S, etc, which isn't likely to happen.
E
Eric L Bailey
wrote:
>
>
>Eric L Bailey wrote:
>
>> >Ugh. You're making my head hurt.
>>
>> Wasn't that what Alan Moore had planned in his big crossover story?
>> Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
>> of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.
>
>Which one is that? Ever-memory lapsing ~Chris
Twilight, which, among other out of character actions, was to include
an incestual relationship between Captain and Mary Marvel. If that
wasn't enough, Moore decided to make Billy Batson a pervert.
E
Chris
Eric L Bailey wrote:
> Twilight, which, among other out of character actions, was to include
> an incestual relationship between Captain and Mary Marvel. If that
> wasn't enough, Moore decided to make Billy Batson a pervert.
Never heard of it.... but that might be a good thing.
--
Tenzel Kim
has)
>>> alternate futures, how long before alternate presents, pasts, and
ultimately,
>>> a return to the multiverse?
>>
>>That return has *already* happened...and it seems no one see the obvious.
>
>Are we discussing alternate timelines that run from the main
>continuity? If so, yes, we've had that for some time now. Some seem
>to be interpreting this as meaning a return of Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth
>S, etc, which isn't likely to happen.
Actually it is very likely to happen. Whether or not Earth-2,3,S and so on
will actually return is still not sure, however there will be a multiverse
once again as a result of the DC One Million storyline. It seems there will
both be alternate timelines that run from the current continuity as well as
new Earths (Universes) that are completely unaffected by the current
continuity. Expect to see the Tangent Universe as part of the new
mulitiverse for one. Although it haven't been officially confirmed there has
been enough stray comments about this in the last few weeks to be sure that
the mulitiverse will "return". And in a big way no less.
A few days ago in an AOL DC chat Byrne admitted that the multiverse would
return, or rather he said that it had never really gone away, but that it
wasn't till now that the heroes of the current DCU continuity realized this.
(Well, he didn't say it exactly like this but this was the general idea)
Tenz.
The Unofficial Guide to the DC Universe
http://home.get2net.dk/DC.Guide
Keith Trotter
> Although it haven't been officially confirmed there has
> been enough stray comments about this in the last few weeks to be sure that
> the mulitiverse will "return". And in a big way no less.
>
> A few days ago in an AOL DC chat Byrne admitted that the multiverse would
> return, or rather he said that it had never really gone away, but that it
> wasn't till now that the heroes of the current DCU continuity realized this.
> (Well, he didn't say it exactly like this but this was the general idea)
As you say, the multiverse _has_ been shown to exist recently in the LSH
books, with multiple versions of the same characters meeting each other
(although being manipulated by the Time Trapper). This can now
perfectly fit in with the idea of multiple _timelines_ rather than
universes per se.
However, it does mean the Legion _could_ have still used Superboy and
Supergirl in it's origins, as it could be explained away as an alternate
timeline where Superboy existed (as young Kal that is) and that any
crossovers with current DCU characters, such as Kyle and Superman, could
have been as a result of them crossing over into a different timeline.
Any ideas as to how the new policy will affect the Legion? Does this
mean we can have annual Legion crossovers with pre-boot counterparts,
similar to the old JLA/JSA team-ups?
Keith
¬¬¬¬¬
art...@utah-inter.net
keitht...@cableinet.co.uk wrote:
<snip>
> As you say, the multiverse _has_ been shown to exist recently in the LSH
> books, with multiple versions of the same characters meeting each other
> (although being manipulated by the Time Trapper). This can now
> perfectly fit in with the idea of multiple _timelines_ rather than
> universes per se.
Is there more than a sematic difference? They both do the same things.
> However, it does mean the Legion _could_ have still used Superboy and
> Supergirl in it's origins, as it could be explained away as an alternate
> timeline where Superboy existed (as young Kal that is) and that any
> crossovers with current DCU characters, such as Kyle and Superman, could
> have been as a result of them crossing over into a different timeline.
This is a very muddled idea. It's safe to say that some of the Legions were
inspired by Superman, but not all. That would overly confuse things that
every single legion was inspired by Superman, even on those "realities" that
Superman A)wasn't the first and greatest super-hero (current continutity),
B)Died before he really became famous as the premiere superhero. Your locking
yourself into a very Superman "centric" future, even though it doesn't make
sense in current continuity.
The Legion is bigger than that, and shouldn't be limited to a single emphasis
as it's "reason for existance".
> Any ideas as to how the new policy will affect the Legion? Does this
> mean we can have annual Legion crossovers with pre-boot counterparts,
> similar to the old JLA/JSA team-ups?
>
Now this could be very interesting.
-----------------------------------------
This really is a signature files. Really!
dave leon
>
>> Any ideas as to how the new policy will affect the Legion? Does this
>> mean we can have annual Legion crossovers with pre-boot counterparts,
>> similar to the old JLA/JSA team-ups?
>>
>
>Now this could be very interesting.
That sounds very interesting. What fun that would be!
fette...@my-dejanews.com
<E8C1BF864896FDFD.17FF8223...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, bai...@airmail.net (Eric L Bailey) wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:10:20 GMT, david_f...@iridium.com wrote:
>
> >In article <6rj92g$kq6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > emy...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Remember, the point is to prevent KC from happening.
> >> Now pretend not to remember what Claremont tried to do with his Days of
Future
> >> Past stories in X-Men and play along. Pretend that you hadn't read about a
> >> superbeing from the future going to the past and the people in the past
> >> end up preventing the alternate future.
> >>
> >
> >Ugh. You're making my head hurt.
>
> Wasn't that what Alan Moore had planned in his big crossover story?
> Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
> of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.
>
> E
>
Alan Moore was planning to make my head hurt? That bastard!
Seriously, does anyone have a copy of the proposal for Twilight? There was
one website that claimed to have it, but when I went to it all I found was a
cease and desist letter from DC.
Dave
Duggy
On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 art...@utah-inter.net wrote:
> In article <35E028...@cableinet.co.uk>,
> keitht...@cableinet.co.uk wrote:
> <snip>
> > As you say, the multiverse _has_ been shown to exist recently in the LSH
> > books, with multiple versions of the same characters meeting each other
> > (although being manipulated by the Time Trapper). This can now
> > perfectly fit in with the idea of multiple _timelines_ rather than
> > universes per se.
> Is there more than a sematic difference? They both do the same things.
Not at all...
You see, multiple timelines require some change in the "past" which
effected the way the "present" turned out.
Different universes are more like "Elseworlds" in as much as they can be
explained by changes in the timeline.
---
- Dug.
---
DucklordJr
> Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
> of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.}
As if you have any cause to say a character is out-of-character you jackass.
wo...@interlog.com
Sure, Captain Marvel screws his twin sister every chance he gets.
Eric L Bailey
>{> Wasn't that what Alan Moore had planned in his big crossover story?
>> Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
>> of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.}
>
>As if you have any cause to say a character is out-of-character you jackass.
Yawn. I've seen much better trolls than you.
E
Al Ewing
wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:34:34 -0400, Chris <cs_b...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Eric L Bailey wrote:
>>
>>> >Ugh. You're making my head hurt.
>>>
>>> Wasn't that what Alan Moore had planned in his big crossover story?
>>> Of course, it was vital to his storyline that everyone be written out
>>> of character. Moore fan that I am, I'm glad DC nixed that one.
>>
>>Which one is that? Ever-memory lapsing ~Chris
>
>Twilight, which, among other out of character actions, was to include
>an incestual relationship between Captain and Mary Marvel. If that
>wasn't enough, Moore decided to make Billy Batson a pervert.
>
I always thought that rang fairly true... remember you had saucy old
Uncle Marvel hanging around with all those young kids and then taking
his clothes off at every opportunity to reveal a kinky red
bodystocking... I'm sure young Billy was corrupted by that old fiend.
Anyway, all superheroes are pervs and if you're also an adolscent boy
I'd have thought that only compounded the problem. Here's hoping for
the Tawky Tawny bestiality scene...
Cheers,
Al
Karl Hiller
> Not at all...
> You see, multiple timelines require some change in the "past" which
> effected the way the "present" turned out.
> Different universes are more like "Elseworlds" in as much as they can be
> explained by changes in the timeline.
Speaking of timelines, I think that Legion continuity in particular could
be made a lot less complicated by making the 30th century another universe
that happens to have 1000 years of extra history, but where time runs at
the same rate. That way, if any major changes happen in the present-day
DCU that contradict Legion history (say, Kyle accidentally blows up Winath
or something), no problem -- in the Legion's past, that didn't happen!
And it would explain why, say, any two 30C visits by Superboy have the
same interval between them for both Superboy and the Legion -- because the
same amount of time has actually passed in both universes.
Think about it.
--
Karl Hiller [] ne'er-do-well, axolotl fancier, INTP
"If you've got valuable backups on Zip [disks], better copy them
to something else soon." -PC Magazine, Feb. 17, 1998:
See article at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/pcwo/0217/285453.html