Joe Kelly's JLA Question

1 view
Skip to first unread message

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 8:34:52 AM1/23/06
to

I just started reading the TPB a friend gave me....when these issues
were published, did anyone on this Newsgroup happen to mention how
UTTERLY OFFENSIVE they are to American Indians?

"The hottest squaw this side of Pocahontas"?????

Fallen

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:11:23 AM1/23/06
to
Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:

What's offensive about that?

Fallen.

Peter Mason

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:42:37 AM1/23/06
to

They still did a better job than the old superfriends cartoon with
Apache chief and everything. Of course I also recall that back then,
there was a NA/FN poster who apparently liked Manitou Raven.

Len-L

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:29:35 AM1/23/06
to
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:11:23 GMT, Fallen <fal...@ntlworld.com> opined:

"Squaw" is an insult.

Mike Hall

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:55:36 AM1/23/06
to

Pocahontas was a 13 year old girl AFAIK when she married an Englishman. She
died many years ago.

That sentence is horrendously offensive to much of the human race, let alone
Native Americans! Still, it was a Firestorm thought-bubble which makes it
ok. Joe Kelly was writing about a young man's crush on a married woman, not
preaching icky morals at us. It was no different to an Impulse fantasy
bubble, except a little wetter when the bubble goes pop...


Mike Hall


Jakanapes

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:07:48 AM1/23/06
to
from: http://www.wordorigins.org/wordors.htm

Squaw

Squaw is borrowed from the Narragansett word for woman and has cognates
in the other Algonquin languages. It appears in English in 1634,
shortly after the first European settlements in New England.

Squaw is not, as is often popularly claimed, a Native American word
meaning either prostitute or vagina. However, it is still considered by
many to be offensive in the same way that calling an English-speaking
female "woman" is offensive and non-Algonquin Indians may be offended
by it because it is not a word in their language--like calling a
Frenchwoman "Frau."


I'm not entirely sure how calling a woman a woman is an insult, though.

Daibhid Ceanaideach

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:25:38 AM1/23/06
to
Also Sprach Mike Hall:

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Firestorm's knowledge of
Pocahontas comes entirely from the Disney flick. Not sure if
that makes it better (she looks the same age as other Disney
heroines) or worse (she's a *cartoon*!)...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"You stand as this world's champion?"
"I've no idea who I am, but you've just summed me up."

Aaron F. Bourque

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 12:12:12 PM1/23/06
to
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> Also Sprach Mike Hall:
>
> > Fallen wrote:
> >> Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:
> >
> >>>I just started reading the TPB a friend gave me....when
> >>>these issues were published, did anyone on this Newsgroup
> >>>happen to mention how UTTERLY OFFENSIVE they are to
> >>>American Indians?
> >
> >>>"The hottest squaw this side of Pocahontas"?????
> >> What's offensive about that?
> >
> > Pocahontas was a 13 year old girl AFAIK when she married an
> > Englishman. She died many years ago.
> >
> > That sentence is horrendously offensive to much of the
> > human race, let alone Native Americans! Still, it was a
> > Firestorm thought-bubble which makes it ok. Joe Kelly was
> > writing about a young man's crush on a married woman, not
> > preaching icky morals at us. It was no different to an
> > Impulse fantasy bubble, except a little wetter when the
> > bubble goes pop...
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if Firestorm's knowledge of
> Pocahontas comes entirely from the Disney flick. Not sure if
> that makes it better (she looks the same age as other Disney
> heroines) or worse (she's a *cartoon*!)...

So is Firestorm, when you think about it.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; and there are a lot of young men (and
women) who develop "crushes" on animated characters. It's no more
unusual than crushing on "live-action" fictional characters, or the
actors and actresses who play them.

Daibhid Ceanaideach

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 12:26:50 PM1/23/06
to
Also Sprach Aaron F. Bourque:

> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

>> I wouldn't be at all surprised if Firestorm's knowledge of
>> Pocahontas comes entirely from the Disney flick. Not sure
>> if that makes it better (she looks the same age as other
>> Disney heroines) or worse (she's a *cartoon*!)...
>
> So is Firestorm, when you think about it.

8-)

> Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; and there are a lot of
> young men (and women) who develop "crushes" on animated
> characters. It's no more unusual than crushing on
> "live-action" fictional characters, or the actors and
> actresses who play them.

Or Starfire. Just for instance...

I take the point.

badth...@yahoo.com

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:10:23 PM1/23/06
to
Actually Manitou Raven is kinda supposed to be Apache Chief. In the
climax of the Obsidian Aget that introduced him, he even does the cry
and turns into a giant. That's the joke.

Which Morrison apparently didn't care for since he made him a cuckhold
and then killed him off.

Fallen

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:34:14 PM1/23/06
to
Mike Hall wrote:

>Fallen wrote:
>
>
>>Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>I just started reading the TPB a friend gave me....when these issues
>>>were published, did anyone on this Newsgroup happen to mention how
>>>UTTERLY OFFENSIVE they are to American Indians?
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>"The hottest squaw this side of Pocahontas"?????
>>>
>>>
>>What's offensive about that?
>>
>>
>
>Pocahontas was a 13 year old girl AFAIK when she married an Englishman. She
>died many years ago.
>

>Mike Hall
>
>
>
>
Pocahontas was 13 or so when she stopped her father killing John Smith.
She never married him and married someone else 7 years later. Making her
around 20.

Plus I would guess it's fairly obvious that the quote would have to be
talking about the Disney flick anyway (which glosses over the ages) as I
doubt 99% of people could pick the real pocahontas out of a crowd.

Fallen.

Fallen

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:34:48 PM1/23/06
to
Len-L wrote:

Not to a great many people it isn't.

Fallen.

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:54:40 PM1/23/06
to

o up to an Indian woman and say "Hey squaw!"...see what happens.

Shannon Patrick Sullivan

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:23:07 PM1/23/06
to

Grant Morrison didn't kill Manitou Raven; Joe Kelly himself did.

Shannon

--
| Shannon Patrick Sullivan >><< sha...@mun.ca |
| Novel Information >><< www.shannonsullivan.com |
\ Doctor Who >><< go.to/drwho-history /
|_ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars _|

Tom Hutson

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:41:49 PM1/23/06
to
>>I
doubt 99% of people could pick the real pocahontas out of a crowd.

Fallen.

I CAN! I CAN! She's standing right between Batman and Bullseye!
;-)

Have fun,
Tom

badth...@yahoo.com

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:52:30 PM1/23/06
to
Oh, I thought Morrison wrote the JLA Elite series where he was betrayed
and died. My bad.

Fallen

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 5:04:39 PM1/23/06
to
Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:

*shrug* No more insulting than walking up to a random female and saying
'Hey woman'.

Fallen.

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 5:39:25 PM1/23/06
to

Like I said...give her a try. While you're at it go up to a black
woman and call her Negress.

Fallen

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:34:41 PM1/23/06
to
Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:

Yeah that's the same. Negress is Woman in what language again?

Fallen.

Duggy

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:42:47 PM1/23/06
to

Jakanapes wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure how calling a woman a woman is an insult, though.

It's contextual.

"She is a woman" isn't offensive.

"Hey, woman come here" is.

===
= DUG.
===

Duggy

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:44:23 PM1/23/06
to

Mike Hall wrote:

> Pocahontas was a 13 year old girl AFAIK when she married an Englishman. She
> died many years ago.

In England. Years after she died John Smith made up stories about her
saving his life.

===
= DUG.
===

Duggy

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:46:49 PM1/23/06
to

Fallen wrote:

> Pocahontas was 13 or so when she stopped her father killing John Smith.
> She never married him and married someone else 7 years later. Making her
> around 20.

Which he never mentioned in his detailled diaries of his expeditions.

Then, after she became popular with the English King & Queen and died
of small pox (and thus couldn't contradict him) he remembered her
saving him...

===
= DUG.
===

Aaron *Brother Head* Moss

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:01:19 PM1/23/06
to

"Tom Hutson" <drs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1138045309....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Come on Tom. That's not Pocahontas... That's Waldo. Geeshh.

--
Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
aka Minister Moss
TheBr...@brotherhead.com
**************************************
Visit my website at:
http://www.brotherhead.com
**************************************
Remember, you can't spell Manslaughter
without laughter!
***************************************


Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:20:41 PM1/23/06
to

Specificlly "Hey Indian Woman come here!"

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:22:25 PM1/23/06
to

English. Means black woman. Just as Squaw is meant Indian Woman. Thats
how it's used: Indian Woman. I don't care if it means 'woman' in
Algonquin. It's used to mean 'Indian Woman' now.

Brian Doyle

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 8:06:41 PM1/23/06
to

<badth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138045950.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Oh, I thought Morrison wrote the JLA Elite series where he was betrayed
> and died. My bad.

Morrison wrote the first arc of "JLA Classified" which was released at
roughly the same time IIRC.

kennet...@sbcglobal.net

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:07:51 PM1/23/06
to

"Magnus, Robot Fighter." <m...@key.com> wrote in message
news:rmm9t19h8pn500dls...@4ax.com...

>
> I just started reading the TPB a friend gave me....when these issues
> were published, did anyone on this Newsgroup happen to mention how
> UTTERLY OFFENSIVE they are to American Indians?
>
> "The hottest squaw this side of Pocahontas"?????

I thought his stories were so dumb that the entire human race would have
been offended.


Clell Harmon

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:46:27 PM1/23/06
to

Feather or Dot?

--
This message is sent to you from the International Center for The Advanced Application of Hindsight.

Peter Mason

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:47:48 PM1/23/06
to
The idea for a League of Ancients in the Obsidian Age was the only
brilliant idea in his run.

Martin Feller

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 12:23:33 AM1/24/06
to

"Magnus, Robot Fighter." <m...@key.com> wrote in message
news:rmm9t19h8pn500dls...@4ax.com...

>
> I just started reading the TPB a friend gave me....when these issues
> were published, did anyone on this Newsgroup happen to mention how
> UTTERLY OFFENSIVE they are to American Indians?

I don't know about American Indians, but I know quite a people that would
practically faint if they overheard that exchange, regardless of how the
people involved felt. WLG does that to people.

Fallen

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 2:26:05 AM1/24/06
to
Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:

And what's offensive about the phrase 'Indian Woman'?

"The hottest american indian woman this side of Pocahontas".

Is this one of those stupid things where you are being offended for
other people without bothering to ask them if they were offended?

Fallen.

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 8:31:45 AM1/24/06
to

>>>>>
>>>>Like I said...give her a try. While you're at it go up to a black
>>>>woman and call her Negress.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Yeah that's the same. Negress is Woman in what language again?
>>>
>>>Fallen.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>English. Means black woman. Just as Squaw is meant Indian Woman. Thats
>>how it's used: Indian Woman. I don't care if it means 'woman' in
>>Algonquin. It's used to mean 'Indian Woman' now.
>>
>>
>
>And what's offensive about the phrase 'Indian Woman'?
>
>"The hottest american indian woman this side of Pocahontas".
>
>Is this one of those stupid things where you are being offended for
>other people without bothering to ask them if they were offended?
>
>Fallen.


No. Being as I'm one of those 'other people'. I didn't need too.

Jakanapes

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 8:38:27 AM1/24/06
to

Um, why, exactly?

Jakanapes

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 8:42:49 AM1/24/06
to

Oh, c'mon. That's like saying Frau only refers to German women and
Senorita only refers to Spanish women.

It's a word that translates as woman. That's it.

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 10:01:19 AM1/24/06
to

The translation is unimportant. We're talking about the usage of the
word. Look in the dictionary.

But if you think that's it, go up to an Indian Woman and say "Hey
squaw! c'mere!"

Fallen

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 10:57:28 AM1/24/06
to
Magnus, Robot Fighter. wrote:

You're all american indian women? That's impressive.

Fallen.

Magnus, Robot Fighter.

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 11:07:46 AM1/24/06
to

Well, I did well in High School, but wouldn't go so far as to say
"All-American".

fungusamungus

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 11:41:19 AM1/24/06