JSA #11; where did that power come from?
Leo
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> OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
> in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
> athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
> to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
> audio recorders."
Well (playing the devil's advocate) if the powers that be are turning Mr. Terrific
into more of a "techie" hero he may have a device which does the cloaking as
opposed to an inborn power.
>
> That sort of power, and to a degree his new "T-spheres" seem at odds with
> the genesis of the character; a very talented, but human level, individual
> making a difference on the streets, particularly with at-risk kids. I don't
> necessarily mind his occasionally helping out the JSA, but this sudden
> power just seems to come out of left field. The tech I'm more ambivalent
> about; particularly with the power levels found on streetcorners in the DCU
> these days, having some tech aids just makes sense. However, semi-autonomous
> mechanoids seem to go against the grain of the character, which should be
> more about what humans can do. I'd see him using personal based enhancement
> tech, rather than semi-autonomous devices.
I have to agree about the style issues.
> And that mask is still ugly. :-) Seriously, another problem is Sand not
> bothering to tell the rest of the team about Terrific during their trip
> to the island; he knows they're going to meet up with Terrific there, and
> there's no reason not to tell the team about him while they're still in
> the secure environs of the Steel Eagle. If for no other reason to keep one
> of the team from mistaking him for an enemy and attacking him.
Again, agreed, but Sand -is- as very inexperienced leader ....
Leo
Tom Galloway
OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
audio recorders."
Boy, I bet that made whoever telecast whatever Olympics he was in happy;
"And in the lead in the decathlon's final event is the USA's Michael Holt.
You'll just have to trust us on this, since for some reason he's not
showing up on camera. And yes, as part of standard Olympic drug testing, it
has been determined that he's not a vampire..."
That sort of power, and to a degree his new "T-spheres" seem at odds with
the genesis of the character; a very talented, but human level, individual
making a difference on the streets, particularly with at-risk kids. I don't
necessarily mind his occasionally helping out the JSA, but this sudden
power just seems to come out of left field. The tech I'm more ambivalent
about; particularly with the power levels found on streetcorners in the DCU
these days, having some tech aids just makes sense. However, semi-autonomous
mechanoids seem to go against the grain of the character, which should be
more about what humans can do. I'd see him using personal based enhancement
tech, rather than semi-autonomous devices.
And that mask is still ugly. :-) Seriously, another problem is Sand not
bothering to tell the rest of the team about Terrific during their trip
to the island; he knows they're going to meet up with Terrific there, and
there's no reason not to tell the team about him while they're still in
the secure environs of the Steel Eagle. If for no other reason to keep one
of the team from mistaking him for an enemy and attacking him.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Leonard Sidiski
Tom Galloway wrote in message <8dln22$inf$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Spoiler for JSA #11:
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>OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
>in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
>athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
>to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
>audio recorders."
Good question. I assumed that his invisibility to infrared, audio recorders,
etc. was the effect of some kind of technology, rather than being an
inherent ability.
I would appreciate somebody explaining the mechanism by which someone can be
visible to the naked eye, but not visible to a camera. Ah well. If I can
accept the flight ability so many heroes have I've already thrown out the
laws of physics.
>
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>That sort of power, and to a degree his new "T-spheres" seem at odds with
>the genesis of the character; a very talented, but human level, individual
>making a difference on the streets, particularly with at-risk kids. I don't
>necessarily mind his occasionally helping out the JSA, but this sudden
>power just seems to come out of left field. The tech I'm more ambivalent
>about; particularly with the power levels found on streetcorners in the DCU
>these days, having some tech aids just makes sense. However,
semi-autonomous
>mechanoids seem to go against the grain of the character, which should be
>more about what humans can do. I'd see him using personal based enhancement
>tech, rather than semi-autonomous devices.
Another good point. Personally, I found the character to be thoroughly
uninteresting. I suppose the reason they made him more technology-based is
that the new Dr. Midnite is doing an excellent job at filling the role of
uber-competant but unaugmented human. I'd rather see Doc Midnite in his own
book with the supporting cast from the 3-part mini (anyone remember that?
Proof positive that a prestige-format series CAN be worth the extra $$ - but
I digress), but I'll take him however we can get him. He was good here, and
terrific in the Darkness Falls arc.
>
>And that mask is still ugly. :-)
ICK. Very ugly. And it doesn't seem to do much towards hiding his identity,
which is what I always thougth masks were for.
Seriously, another problem is Sand not
>bothering to tell the rest of the team about Terrific during their trip
>to the island; he knows they're going to meet up with Terrific there, and
>there's no reason not to tell the team about him while they're still in
>the secure environs of the Steel Eagle. If for no other reason to keep one
>of the team from mistaking him for an enemy and attacking him.
>
But it's FUN for one member of the team to attack the new guy by mistake,
assuming he's a bad guy. Think of it as superteam hazing.
Disruptor
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> Tom Galloway wrote in message <8dln22$inf$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
> >Spoiler for JSA #11:
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> >OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
> >in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
> >athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
> >to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
> >audio recorders."
>
> Good question. I assumed that his invisibility to infrared, audio recorders,
> etc. was the effect of some kind of technology, rather than being an
> inherent ability.
>
> I would appreciate somebody explaining the mechanism by which someone can be
can
> accept the flight ability so many heroes have I've already thrown out the
> laws of physics.
Michael Alan Chary
Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Spoiler for JSA #11:
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>OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
>in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
>athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
>to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
>audio recorders."
Oh, come on, Tom. Surely they can dick around with his powers a little?
It's not like they suddenly said Superman had heat vision or something.
That said: does DC even have editors anymore?
--
In memoriam Walter Payton, 1954-1999, the greatest Bear of all time.
"Being the fastest? I wasn't. Being the strongest? I wasn't. Being the biggest?
I wasn't. I had something that nobody else had. I think I was the smartest."
-- Sweetness
Christopher William Stahl
: OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
: in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
: athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
: to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
: audio recorders."
I read that as Holt using some of his tech to make himself "blind" to
surveillance equipment. For some reason, it never occurred to me that he
might be metahuman. The info spheres were a lot cuter than I thought they
were going to be...and I loved Jack's reaction to them.
By the way, what did you think of that ending? I'm still reeling!!!
------------------------>Chris
--
Christopher Stahl * cws...@is5.nyu.edu * 212/465-2547
__ Department of Performance Studies
\/ Tisch School of the Arts
New York University
'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice.
And when justice is gone, there's always force.
And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!
- Laurie Anderson, "O Superman"
Patrick Thompson
news:cWvL4.1$gY5...@typhoon.nyu.edu...
> Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote:
> : Spoiler for JSA #11:
> :
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> : OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt
introduced
> : in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
> : athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it
comes
> : to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up
by
> : audio recorders."
>
> I read that as Holt using some of his tech to make himself "blind" to
> surveillance equipment. For some reason, it never occurred to me that he
> might be metahuman. The info spheres were a lot cuter than I thought they
> were going to be...and I loved Jack's reaction to them.
The spheres were fun. The cloaking bit I'm having some trouble
buying--we'll see how/if they explain this one in future issues, but I sure
hope it's a gadget power rather than an innate power, and that his power set
doesn't proliferate beyond the bounds of logic just to fill plot needs.
> By the way, what did you think of that ending? I'm still reeling!!!
Come on...it's an offscreen shot without decency justification. When Al's
mother gets blown up offscreen, her death is believable because she's not a
superhero, and because there's be an unpublishable degree of gore to
actually show her death. However, neither of those work for Sand. He was
basically a human chunk of rock when he got zapped, so there is no decency
concern to prevent showing him shatter or crumble or whatever. Thus, the
only concievable reason not to show it is because to do so would give away
his last-minute, odds-defying escape.
He probably regained just enough control of his powers to phase through the
floor right as the shot was fired, getting hurt but not killed. Heck,
neither Kobra or the public have ever seen his powers in action, so it would
look to them like he just crumbled to sand. We, however, have seen his
powers work, so an astute reader would tell the difference. Thus, show the
"death" offscreen, to deny us that chance. Johns and Goyer are getting
quite adept at that sort of misdirection--I loved how they played with our
expectations that Sand would get captured by having him get captured and
then escaping early in the fight, only to be captured for real in the last
scene.
In all: A very well-done issue, with a variety of interesting story devices
and a line that implies that somewhere the Crisis didn't happen (something
that has been possible but unconfirmed since Kingdom). This series hit a
valley with issues 5 and 6, but since then it's been working its way up my
list of favorite books.
BHMarks
>: Spoiler for JSA #11:
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>By the way, what did you think of that ending? I'm still reeling!!!
Somehow I don't doubt that, even if blown to smithereens, a superhero named
"Sand" will be able to pull himself together....
As ever,
Bennet
Carl Fink
>
>That said: does DC even have editors anymore?
Apparently they have people with that title, but they're really
traffic managers these days.
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum
<http://dm.net>
Bill Svitavsky
"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
> Christopher William Stahl <cws...@is5.nyu.edu> wrote in message
> news:cWvL4.1$gY5...@typhoon.nyu.edu...
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Al's
> mother gets blown up offscreen, her death is believable because she's
not a
> superhero, and because there's be an unpublishable degree of gore to
> actually show her death. However, neither of those work for Sand. He
was
> basically a human chunk of rock when he got zapped, so there is no
decency
> concern to prevent showing him shatter or crumble or whatever. Thus,
the
> only concievable reason not to show it is because to do so would give
away
> his last-minute, odds-defying escape.
I'm hoping this is the case - and it does seem most likely.
My fear for the story is that the Hypertime plot will be used to write
out Sand's death, along with Al's Mom's and a bunch of other "shocking"
events we get next issue. The book has been better written than that so
far, though.
If we must have cheesy time paradox returns to the status quo in JSA, I
at least want to see Per Degaton. Hmmm. Per Degaton and Hypertime...
There are possibilities there.
--
- Bill Svitavsky
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
fan
Tom Galloway wrote:
> Spoiler for JSA #11:
>
> OK, who is this guy and just when did he kidnap the Michael Holt introduced
> in Spectre? Suddenly Mr. Terrific, previously a very talented in brains,
> athletics, financial resources guy, is "a walking blind spot when it comes
> to technology. [He] can't be photographed, sensed by infrared, picked up by
> audio recorders."
As many others have pointed out, these powers are probably
the result of a gizmo recently whipped up with Michael Holt's
scientific skills rather than a superhuman power he's had all
along. I'd just like to add that this isn't exactly without
precedent; think JLA: New World Order:
"That's strange. I didn't detect your heartbeat."
"Hh! Gadget worked."
Granted, Batman was more explicit about this, but it's
not exactly a stretch to chalk Mr. Terrific's abilities up
to the same sort of world-class gear.
Johanna Draper Carlson
>>Spoiler for JSA #11:
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> I would appreciate somebody explaining the mechanism by which someone can be
> visible to the naked eye, but not visible to a camera.
He's the anti-Gypsy?
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Can of Worms, Wahoo Morris, Dork Tower
Also reviewed: Betty & Veronica, Charm School
Derek
Leonard Sidiski wrote:
> I would appreciate somebody explaining the mechanism by which someone can be
> visible to the naked eye, but not visible to a camera. Ah well. If I can
> accept the flight ability so many heroes have I've already thrown out the
> laws of physics.
A magical explanation is possible - like vampires being invisible to
silver-backed
mirrors and film that contains silver in the film (silver supposedly having some
anti-magical properties in the DCU), but magic doesn't seem to be Mr. Terrific's
MO, and this wouldn't explain other technological devices not using silver.
--
Schfooge
<schf...@home.com>
Zz
zZ
|\ z _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Patrick Thompson
news:8dojob$j61$1...@samba.rahul.net...
> In article <8dm30i$ejb$1...@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
> Patrick Thompson <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
> >Christopher William Stahl <cws...@is5.nyu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:cWvL4.1$gY5...@typhoon.nyu.edu...
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> >He probably regained just enough control of his powers to phase through
the
> >floor right as the shot was fired, getting hurt but not killed.
>
>
> Sand isn't organic. Was he really affected at all?
>
> (Of course this might just be a case of bad science.)
I noticed that too, but it read more like a science goof than a plot
point--Sand seemed to be affected before he would have known quite what
effect to fake. It's possible geomorphs like him are partly organic,
leading him to be partly affected, but still retain enough mobility for a
last-minute, skin-of-his-teeth escape.
Kal-El
>silver-backed
>mirrors and film that contains silver in the film (silver supposedly having some
>
>anti-magical properties in the DCU), but magic doesn't seem to be Mr. Terrific's
>
>MO, and this wouldn't explain other technological devices not using silver.
is a silver-based problem? Was this stated in a vampire related
comic-book at one point? Was it stated by someone who's opinion we
trust?
Sliverlock
>is a silver-based problem? Was this stated in a vampire related
>comic-book at one point? Was it stated by someone who's opinion we
>trust
It's a gimmick that several fanasty and comic authors have used in the past.
They wanted to explain why vampires aren't visible to camera, etc. The idea is
that vampires are vulnerable to sliver and that is why there image cannot be
seen.
Can we trust them? Who's to say.
Jeff Troutman
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> For all intents and purposes, Kobra did execute Sand. Whether the death
> "takes" is another matter....after all, we have seen Sand "absorb" and
> re-direct shock waves (from Geomancer, for instance). What I thought was
> interesting was that the "next issue" box from Issue #10 said that there
> was a death in the JSA family. Terri Rothestein's demise could have been
> read as that event.....or it could be Sand. We shall see....but I'm
> certain that the presence of Extant will have some sort of effect on what
> does and does not "really" happen.
>
I hope that it does refer to Rothestein, and that they leave the Extant
situation until #13-15. I don't want it cribbing on what's reading like a
pretty good action/espionage tale.
As for Sand, I think he'll find his own way out of the situation, and that
the execution was just an old-fashioned cliffhanger, and a great one at
that.
Jeff Troutman
Gérard Morvan
>
> >A magical explanation is possible - like vampires being invisible to
> >silver-backed
> >mirrors and film that contains silver in the film (silver supposedly having some
> >
> >anti-magical properties in the DCU), but magic doesn't seem to be Mr. Terrific's
> >
> >MO, and this wouldn't explain other technological devices not using silver.
> is a silver-based problem? Was this stated in a vampire related
> comic-book at one point? Was it stated by someone who's opinion we
It was stated by vampire Nina Skorzeny in Scare Tactics. I think we can
trust her about that ;-)
Gérard Morvan
Dwight Williams
And the guy who wrote her dialogue reminded us here on rac.dc.universe
that there's more than one kind of vampire out there in this planet's
mythology, and hence also more than one kind of vampire in the DCU.
Hoping Len Kaminski's doing well enough to keep him happy, BTW...
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Maintainer/Founder - DEOList for _Chase_ Fandom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kal-El
>They wanted to explain why vampires aren't visible to camera, etc. The idea is
>that vampires are vulnerable to sliver and that is why there image cannot be
>seen.
>
>Can we trust them? Who's to say.
thought I might have missed something.
BTW, in 'classic' vampire lore, I don't think silver affects vamps
(IIRC). Silver is for lycanthropes. For vampires, it's stakes,
sunlight and running water.
To get really anal-retentive about it: you stake them through the
heart (that renders them powerless) then you decapitate them, stuff
their mouths with holy-wafers and leave them, out to catch the first
rays of the rising sun (note: the legend is -very- Catholic; early
Gothic literature, though British in origin, was almost always set in
Catholic Europe). If you don't have a stake, immersing them in running
water will have the same effect.
As much as I'm willing to give writers the benefit of the doubt with
stuff like this (if the story's good, who cares?) when it's wildly
innacurate (Anne Rice, for example) it's just not the same legend
anymore. I don't think vampires occupy the same space in our minds if
they're -really- easy to defeat (I.e., Buffy and Mr. Pointy), or if
you remove the religious aspect (which many modern stories try to do,
Anne Rice again). The legend, though not exactly codified, evolved to
fit a particular set of fears. Taking a mechete to the 'rules' almost
always has a negative effect on the story as a whole. See "Kindred:
The Embraced", "Forever Knight", and, not to beat it to death,
anything by Anne Rice.
Sliverlock
> So, it wasn't definitively stated, in a DC comic. Okay. Just
>thought I might have missed something.
Actually, after I posted this some said that it was mentioned in Scare Tactics.
I missed out on this series so I cannot verify this.
>
> BTW, in 'classic' vampire lore, I don't think silver affects vamps
>(IIRC). Silver is for lycanthropes
Well, yes and no. Most European lore runs in this vein. But some cultures do
attribute a sliver weakness to vampires. The vampire is an intresting archtype
because every culture at some point had developed it's own version of it. Even
in Europe each ethnic area had varaitions to the theme. German's believed that
the vampire left it's body behind while the head and the internal organs went a
huntin'.
So there is no true classic lore, just variations on a idea.
eternally
Kal-El wrote:
> stuff like this (if the story's good, who cares?) when it's wildly
> innacurate (Anne Rice, for example) it's just not the same legend
> you remove the religious aspect (which many modern stories try to do,
> Anne Rice again). The legend, though not exactly codified, evolved to
> fit a particular set of fears. Taking a mechete to the 'rules' almost
> always has a negative effect on the story as a whole. See [...]
> anything by Anne Rice.
so you're an Anne Rice fan is what you're trying to say?
-= e.
Sir Deuce
mirror, hence the covering of mirrors in some cultures when someone has
died, to prevent their soul from being caught within. A vampire has no
reflection cause he has no soul, NOT because of silver in the mirror.
However, silver is believed to be powerful in magic, so it's use against
vampires can be accepted. Just as it can against lycanthropes. A
silver tipped rosewood stake can do the job real fine. 8-) I forget,
what was the point of this thread again?
"Be Generous...True...Just" ROBBY
> http://profiles.yahoo.com/sutsuj
Masked Man
|So there is no true classic [vampire] lore, just variations on a idea.
Masked Man----->Perhaps, but I always thought the Rumanian vision that
grew out of the exploits of Vlad the Impaler was somewhat the
definitive version.
_
Have Gun Will Travel
Wire Paladin
San Franciscoo
Kal-El
the themes and metaphors of the vampire legend. But that's another
debate. I've seen lots of other bad Vamp stories, mind you, her work
just springs to mind as the most popular version of the ruination of
the legend.
Kal-El
>>(IIRC). Silver is for lycanthropes
>
>Well, yes and no. Most European lore runs in this vein. But some cultures do
>attribute a sliver weakness to vampires. The vampire is an intresting archtype
>because every culture at some point had developed it's own version of it. Even
>in Europe each ethnic area had varaitions to the theme. German's believed that
>the vampire left it's body behind while the head and the internal organs went a
>huntin'.
>
That's a good point. I guess I was subconsciously fixating on the
Eastern European version (Transylvanian/Rumanian). I do, however,
think that's sort of the archetype in Western culture (Vlad the
Impaler->Count Dracula).
It is fascinating that the basic idea of the vampire exists in
almost all cultures, though, isn't it? Even if you only include beings
that literally drink blood, there's still a whole lot of variation.