Fat, Bald, and Ugly
Norton Zenger
like this:
"If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
superheroes."
I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
FAT:
Red Tornado (Golden Age)
Herbie the Fat Fury
Chunk
Fat Marvel
SHORT:
Atom (Golden Age)
Rorschach
Feel free to add to this list.
PS- I left off villains, because if I included them people would just say "Oh,
sure, it's easy to portray a bald guy in a negative light."
Duggy
Norton Zenger wrote:
> One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
> like this:
>
> "If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
> superheroes."
>
> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
> of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
> superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
>
> FAT:
> Red Tornado (Golden Age)
> Herbie the Fat Fury
> Chunk
> Fat Marvel
At times: Blue Beetle.
> SHORT:
> Atom (Golden Age)
> Rorschach
>
> Feel free to add to this list.
>
> PS- I left off villains, because if I included them people would just say "Oh,
> sure, it's easy to portray a bald guy in a negative light."
I think there's a difference between cool "bald" and uncool "balding"
as well.
And Ugly (apart from alien/demon/monster looking)?
===
= DUG.
===
Lilith
<rusho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
>like this:
>
>"If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
>superheroes."
>
>I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
>of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
>superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
>
>FAT:
>Red Tornado (Golden Age)
>Herbie the Fat Fury
>Chunk
>Fat Marvel
Blimp from the Inferior Five.
>SHORT:
>Atom (Golden Age)
>Rorschach
Puck.
Silver Age Atom was even shorter, in action.
>Feel free to add to this list.
>PS- I left off villains, because if I included them people would just say "Oh,
>sure, it's easy to portray a bald guy in a negative light."
--
Lilith
Kurt Busiek
> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
> of fat professional baseball players, for instance?
Not while David Wells is still in the major leagues.
kdb
Ken from Chicago
"Norton Zenger" <rusho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:oa7782hvbrko6qpkp...@4ax.com...
The REAL diversity would have fat OR ugly FEMALE superheroes--who don't
instantly get skinny ala NEW MUTANTS' Karma.
Male heroes can be fat, bald AND ugly--and still have thin, long-haired, hot
wives (ala television).
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. THE AVENGERS' Moondragon was both bald and gay superheroine. ALPHA
FLIGHT's Northstar was gay but was Canadian so obvious the 'Mer'kin Media
conspired to ignore him. FLASH's Pied Piper was gay but he was only a
recently-reformed rogue.
Ken from Chicago
"Kurt Busiek" <kurtb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2006060422430816807-kurtbusiek@aolcom...
Who?
-- Ken from Chicago
Daibhid Ceanaideach
rec.arts.comics.dc.universe. The speaker: "Duggy"
<Paul....@jcu.edu.au>
Yeah. Steel (who I was about to mention) is definitely the
former.
OTOH, ISTR that between the return from Ragnarok and his
death, Al Pratt was the latter.
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06
Kurt Busiek
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> said:
> Who?
Make an effort, Ken.
If you actually want to know, Google is your friend. If you just want
a general answer -- I think it's pretty clear from context. Assume the
answre relates to the question and you'll get it.
kdb
gandrw...@gmail.com
Norton Zenger wrote:
> One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
> like this:
>
> "If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
> superheroes."
>
> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
> of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
> superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
I don't think people have addressed the key answer to the question.
Speaking very generally, people who are fat, bald, and/or ugly do not
necessarily consider these traits to to integral to their identities,
so they would not gain or lose any ability to relate to a character
they are reading about if that character is or isn't fat, bald, or
ugly.
People who are gay do find that trait integral to their identity, so
they do gain some ability to relate to a character if that character is
gay.
DC wants to diversify in ways that actually make a difference and
attact more readers, not just to meet some statistical standard.
Meat
Norton Zenger wrote:
> One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
> like this:
>
> "If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
> superheroes."
>
> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
> of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
> superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
I'm not sure I buy that either. It's easy to handwave the lack of
overweight heroes -- superheroing is, after, a very active lifestyle.
I'd suspect that an overweight individual who started putting on the
tights and fighting crime would either lose weight pretty darn quick,
or wouldn't last too long as a superhero.
That said, there are a few to add to the list.
Chlorophyll Kid of the Legion of Substitute Heroes
Bouncing Boy of the Legion of Superherors
Ted "Blue Beetle" Kord was drawn with a bit of a paunch for quite some
time.
And she's not a DC character, but Zephyr of Valiant's Harbinger was a
bit overweight.
Balding heroes, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe
it's because most heroes are in their late 20s to early 30s, where hair
loss, while still possible, is not as common. I seem to recall some "5
Year Gap" Legion members drawn with receeding hairlines, but can't
recally any specifics. LIkewise, Kingdom Come Superman was drawn with
a noticable widow's peak.
Daibhid Ceanaideach
rec.arts.comics.dc.universe. The speaker:
> Speaking very generally, people who are fat, bald, and/or
> ugly do not necessarily consider these traits to to
> integral to their identities, so they would not gain or
> lose any ability to relate to a character they are reading
> about if that character is or isn't fat, bald, or ugly.
>
> People who are gay do find that trait integral to their
> identity, so they do gain some ability to relate to a
> character if that character is gay.
>
> DC wants to diversify in ways that actually make a
> difference and attact more readers, not just to meet some
> statistical standard.
That's a very good point. This also applies to obvious
diversities, such as heroes of different ethnicities, but it
could be compared to Stan Lee introducing a shy, nerdy hero
(who really was that way, not just pretending like Clark Kent
was).
So, how many vegetarian heroes do we have 8-)?
Peter Bruells
>
> I'm not sure I buy that either. It's easy to handwave the lack of
> overweight heroes -- superheroing is, after, a very active lifestyle.
> I'd suspect that an overweight individual who started putting on the
> tights and fighting crime would either lose weight pretty darn quick,
> or wouldn't last too long as a superhero.
Depends on the type of superheroics. A sorcercer suprememe, a
telepath/pschokinetic/etc, a kryptontian - none of them would need to
be athletic.
> Balding heroes, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe
> it's because most heroes are in their late 20s to early 30s, where
> hair loss, while still possible, is not as common.
It's common enough, esp. for whites.
Meat
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> So, how many vegetarian heroes do we have 8-)?
Do we count the cartoons? Some of my favourite lines from the Teen
Titans cartoon deal with Beast Boy's vegetarianism:
Cyborg: Yo BB! You want a hamburger? Ribs? Sausage?
Beast Boy: Are you crazy? I've BEEN most of those animals!
Beat Boy: Can I interest you in a tofu-dog? It's filled with
bean-curdly goodness.
Raven: I respect that you don't eat meat. Please respect that I don't
eat fake meat.
Priceless!
Christian Smith
<daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote
>So, how many vegetarian heroes do we have 8-)?
Animal Man
Christian
--
"There is a land called Passive Aggressiva and you are their queen."
Derek to Addison. Greys Anatomy
Meat
Peter Bruells wrote:
> "Meat" <g...@maki.ca> writes:
>
> >
> > I'm not sure I buy that either. It's easy to handwave the lack of
> > overweight heroes -- superheroing is, after, a very active lifestyle.
> > I'd suspect that an overweight individual who started putting on the
> > tights and fighting crime would either lose weight pretty darn quick,
> > or wouldn't last too long as a superhero.
>
> Depends on the type of superheroics. A sorcercer suprememe, a
> telepath/pschokinetic/etc, a kryptontian - none of them would need to
> be athletic.
True, but even the most passive power would require a fair bit of
conditioning in order to make a successful superhero, IMO. There's
still a lot of jumping, dodging and running involved. I'm not saying
that every hero needs to be built like an Olympic gymnast. I just
don't think it stretches credibility that the vast majority of heroes
are of 'average' weight.
> > Balding heroes, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe
> > it's because most heroes are in their late 20s to early 30s, where
> > hair loss, while still possible, is not as common.
>
> It's common enough, esp. for whites.
True again. That was just a shot in the dark for me. Maybe someone
else can come up with a more plausible explaination that makes sense in
the comic book universe.
The *real* reason, for both points, is that the publishers are using
the youthful ideal for their heroes. This is a long standing practice,
going back to the Greek and Roman myths of old, and still in practice
today with most mass media. Sometimes you can make it work for your
universe (ie, atheleticly built heroes) and sometimes not so much (no
balding heroes).
Lilith
Or Big Bertha in GLA/X. Being massive IS her superpower.
Ah, not quite a superhero and certainly not part of the mainstream,
down-to-Earth characters, but there is (actually was) Volstagg. Aside
from his girth he was also bald when his helmet wasn't in place. Hero?
In some ways. Played for laughs? Yes. But he was also often
portrayed in a serious light, especially when the safety of Asgard's
children were concerned.
--
Lilith
Lilith
<rusho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
>like this:
>
>"If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
>superheroes."
>
>I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
>of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
>superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
Seem to recall that Babe Ruth had something of a paunch on him.
--
Lilith
Daibhid Ceanaideach
<g...@maki.ca>
Oh, excellent. I hope that gets added to the comic version.
So, just for the heck of it, let's make a list.
Beast Boy (or at least, the cartoon version)
Animal Man
Martian Manhunter
I think one JSA story said Dr Mid-Nite (current version)
Post-Birthright Superman
Any more?
Peter Bruells
> The time: 05 Jun 2006. The place:
> rec.arts.comics.dc.universe. The speaker: "Meat"
> <g...@maki.ca>
>
> >
> > Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> >
> >> So, how many vegetarian heroes do we have 8-)?
> >
> > Do we count the cartoons? Some of my favourite lines from
> > the Teen Titans cartoon deal with Beast Boy's
> > vegetarianism:
> >
> > Cyborg: Yo BB! You want a hamburger? Ribs? Sausage?
> > Beast Boy: Are you crazy? I've BEEN most of those
> > animals!
> >
> > Beat Boy: Can I interest you in a tofu-dog? It's filled
> > with bean-curdly goodness.
> > Raven: I respect that you don't eat meat. Please respect
> > that I don't eat fake meat.
>
> Oh, excellent. I hope that gets added to the comic version.
>
> So, just for the heck of it, let's make a list.
>
> Beast Boy (or at least, the cartoon version)
> Animal Man
> Martian Manhunter
> I think one JSA story said Dr Mid-Nite (current version)
> Post-Birthright Superman
> Any more?
Rucka's Wonder Woman.
Peter Bruells
> Peter Bruells wrote:
> > "Meat" <g...@maki.ca> writes:
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I buy that either. It's easy to handwave the lack of
> > > overweight heroes -- superheroing is, after, a very active lifestyle.
> > > I'd suspect that an overweight individual who started putting on the
> > > tights and fighting crime would either lose weight pretty darn quick,
> > > or wouldn't last too long as a superhero.
> >
> > Depends on the type of superheroics. A sorcercer suprememe, a
> > telepath/pschokinetic/etc, a kryptontian - none of them would need to
> > be athletic.
>
> True, but even the most passive power would require a fair bit of
> conditioning in order to make a successful superhero, IMO. There's
> still a lot of jumping, dodging and running involved. I'm not
> saying that every hero needs to be built like an Olympic gymnast. I
> just don't think it stretches credibility that the vast majority of
> heroes are of 'average' weight.
Nope. But they aren't. "Average" weight in the US is overweight, yet
nearly all the heroes have a perfect (or rather idealized) athletic
build.
Technically, someone like Zatanna could well have Amanda Waller's
figure. That she doesn't isn't caused by her running around, but
because fishnet stockings look better than whalenet stockings.
> > > Balding heroes, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe
> > > it's because most heroes are in their late 20s to early 30s, where
> > > hair loss, while still possible, is not as common.
> >
> > It's common enough, esp. for whites.
>
> True again. That was just a shot in the dark for me. Maybe someone
> else can come up with a more plausible explaination that makes sense in
> the comic book universe.
Same reason as for atheletes and politicians - baldness implies
physical unfitness, esp. in this age of standardized TV beauty,
therefore bald superheroes don't get accepted. Unless they are
telepaths or hot sorcereresses.
> The *real* reason, for both points, is that the publishers are using
> the youthful ideal for their heroes. This is a long standing
> practice, going back to the Greek and Roman myths of old, and still
> in practice today with most mass media. Sometimes you can make it
> work for your universe (ie, atheleticly built heroes) and sometimes
> not so much (no balding heroes).
Bingo. And that's the reasons why there will never be a truly
internernational Justice league instead of a JLA as Earths best hope.
janklo...@yahoo.com
Norton Zenger wrote:
> One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
> like this:
>
> "If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
> superheroes."
>
> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
> of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
> superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
Jonn Jonzz anyone?
Not fat, but he is green. And bald. and if not ugly then certainly
fearsome looking.
Jason Todd
Meat
janklo...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jonn Jonzz anyone?
>
> Not fat, but he is green. And bald. and if not ugly then certainly
> fearsome looking.
I'm pretty sure that the original poster wanted to limit the discussion
to humans, or human looking aliens (Kryptonian, Thanagarian, Rannian,
etc). Otherwise, much of the Green Lantern Corps would apply (Salakk,
Abin Sur, Tomar Re, and a huge number are all bald while a good number
have some girth, not the least of which is Mogo).
Speaking of which, he's been given quite a lot of screen time lately,
hasn't he?
CodeThis
Why don't fags come up with more of their own fag characters?
Why take an already well known character and fagatize them?
To date, fags only have one original fag character...
Batman.
--
"Spreading a little of my special sunshine, throughout usenet hell."
-CodeThis
Meat
> Nope. But they aren't. "Average" weight in the US is overweight, yet
> nearly all the heroes have a perfect (or rather idealized) athletic
> build.
OK, how about 'it doesn't stretch credibility that heroes be resonably
in shape' then? For the most part, they are leading a more active
lifestyle than the average American, even those with non-physical
powers. Being a sorceror supreme won't help you if you suddenly die of
a colesterol and weight induced heart attack.
I wouldn't mind seeing more body types on heroes, personally, but I can
see it being explained away easily enough.
> Same reason as for atheletes and politicians - baldness implies
> physical unfitness, esp. in this age of standardized TV beauty,
> therefore bald superheroes don't get accepted. Unless they are
> telepaths or hot sorcereresses.
That's the Meta Reason, though, and I fully agree with you. I'm hoping
someone can come up with a reasonable explaination that makes sense in
the comic universe, though.
Lilith
wrote:
>"Meat" <g...@maki.ca> writes:
>
>> Peter Bruells wrote:
>> > "Meat" <g...@maki.ca> writes:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I'm not sure I buy that either. It's easy to handwave the lack of
>> > > overweight heroes -- superheroing is, after, a very active lifestyle.
>> > > I'd suspect that an overweight individual who started putting on the
>> > > tights and fighting crime would either lose weight pretty darn quick,
>> > > or wouldn't last too long as a superhero.
>> >
>> > Depends on the type of superheroics. A sorcercer suprememe, a
>> > telepath/pschokinetic/etc, a kryptontian - none of them would need to
>> > be athletic.
>>
>
>> True, but even the most passive power would require a fair bit of
>> conditioning in order to make a successful superhero, IMO. There's
>> still a lot of jumping, dodging and running involved. I'm not
>> saying that every hero needs to be built like an Olympic gymnast. I
>> just don't think it stretches credibility that the vast majority of
>> heroes are of 'average' weight.
So, how does Superman maintain any muscle bulk? He doesn't have any
notable resistance day to day and we've never seen him working out
with white dwarf star weights to keep in trim.
>Nope. But they aren't. "Average" weight in the US is overweight, yet
>nearly all the heroes have a perfect (or rather idealized) athletic
>build.
I was about to say.
>Technically, someone like Zatanna could well have Amanda Waller's
>figure. That she doesn't isn't caused by her running around, but
>because fishnet stockings look better than whalenet stockings.
Or because she can say, "annataZ eb niht." For all we know, her figure
is nothing but an illusion.
>> > > Balding heroes, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe
>> > > it's because most heroes are in their late 20s to early 30s, where
>> > > hair loss, while still possible, is not as common.
>> >
>> > It's common enough, esp. for whites.
>>
>> True again. That was just a shot in the dark for me. Maybe someone
>> else can come up with a more plausible explaination that makes sense in
>> the comic book universe.
Hero hormones? Power ring glue? Speed Force (tm) massage? Sheer
willpower?
>Same reason as for atheletes and politicians - baldness implies
>physical unfitness, esp. in this age of standardized TV beauty,
>therefore bald superheroes don't get accepted. Unless they are
>telepaths or hot sorcereresses.
And then their hair is blown out by psychic shock waves.
>> The *real* reason, for both points, is that the publishers are using
>> the youthful ideal for their heroes. This is a long standing
>> practice, going back to the Greek and Roman myths of old, and still
>> in practice today with most mass media. Sometimes you can make it
>> work for your universe (ie, atheleticly built heroes) and sometimes
>> not so much (no balding heroes).
Hmmmm. So J'onn J'onzz needs to give up the biz? Ever notice how
bald and spindly his true form is?
J'onn doesn't seem to be as public a figure as many of the other heros
and he seldom, nowadays, works outside the group dynamic. So he's
rather, if you excuse the allusion, invisible to the DC public.
>Bingo. And that's the reasons why there will never be a truly
>internernational Justice league instead of a JLA as Earths best hope.
--
Lilith
Lilith
Kind of hard to miss when he's in the vicinity. Maybe DC is working
towards making him some sort of central, mobile meeting place for the
space bound characters in the DCU.
--
Lilith
Meat
> So, how does Superman maintain any muscle bulk? He doesn't have any
> notable resistance day to day and we've never seen him working out
> with white dwarf star weights to keep in trim.
His Kryptonian metabolosm converts yellow sunlight into muscle bulk?
Maybe he works out like a demon when his powers disappear, as they seem
to do with alarming frequency (Crisis of the Crimson K, post Death and
One Year Later to name three post crisis cases).
Dan McEwen
news:jcr882d2f73qknuns...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 04:15:46 -0500, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>The REAL diversity would have fat OR ugly FEMALE superheroes--who
>>don't instantly get skinny ala NEW MUTANTS' Karma.
>
> Or Big Bertha in GLA/X. Being massive IS her superpower.
Yeah, but that's her power. In reality, she's a hottie supermodel.
--
"Those who would give up essential
Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Dan McEwen
news:1149528019.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
> That said, there are a few to add to the list.
>
> Chlorophyll Kid of the Legion of Substitute Heroes
I should point out that he was made fat in a joke story. One year
earlier (or so) in a serious story, he was quite thin and athletic.
> Bouncing Boy of the Legion of Superherors
> Ted "Blue Beetle" Kord was drawn with a bit of a paunch for quite some
> time.
--
Ken from Chicago
"Rob Hansen" <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vgp882lrqrahm54qq...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 04:15:46 -0500, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>The REAL diversity would have fat OR ugly FEMALE superheroes--who don't
>>instantly get skinny ala NEW MUTANTS' Karma.
>
> character on the team.
>
> --
> Rob Hansen
> www.fiawol.demon.co.uk
I'm sorry, I blinked, how long did Valiant last? >=^>
There were a lot of "alternative" comics in the '80s and '90s I'm sure with
"unusal" heroes. DC's imprints have been more daring than the mainline DCU.
Milestone Comics had a gay, transvestite and transgendered characters in one
of their series that came out (no pun intended) about the same time as
KOBALT (I think it was the only European American solo superhero title they
had).
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Lilith" <lil...@dcccd.edu> wrote in message
news:jcr882d2f73qknuns...@4ax.com...
But the whole GREAT LAKES AVENGERS were a joke, ala JUSTICE LEAGUE
DETROIT--only moreso. And again, she turns instantly skinny--even moreso
than Karma which was a one-time deal. Bertha can change back and forth ala
the Hulk or Plastic Man (interesting I can't think of a female superhero
with similar powers, perhaps because of the obvious [mis]use).
-- Ken from Chicago
Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
"Norton Zenger" <rusho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:oa7782hvbrko6qpkp...@4ax.com...
> One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
> like this:
>
> "If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or
> bald
> superheroes."
>
> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the
> lack
> of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
> superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
>
> FAT:
> Red Tornado (Golden Age)
> Herbie the Fat Fury
> Chunk
> Fat Marvel
>
> SHORT:
> Atom (Golden Age)
> Rorschach
>
> Feel free to add to this list.
>
> PS- I left off villains, because if I included them people would just say
> "Oh,
> sure, it's easy to portray a bald guy in a negative light."
>
Dr. Druid was balding as I recall... and I wanna say he was overweight also.
Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
aka Minister Moss
TheBr...@brotherhead.com
**************************************
Visit my website at:
http://www.brotherhead.com
**************************************
Remember, you can't spell Manslaughter
without laughter!
***************************************
Aaron F. Bourque
> One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
> like this:
>
> "If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or bald
> superheroes."
This complaint is from the mainstream media.
Why are you giving them the time of day?
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
Tom
Kurt Busiek wrote:
> On 2006-06-04 20:00:37 -0700, Norton Zenger <rusho...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the lack
> > of fat professional baseball players, for instance?
>
>
> kdb
...and Ray King!
Have fun,
Tom
YKW '06
wrote:
> In article <03f782d2640vu9b6a...@4ax.com>,
> Lilith <lil...@dcccd.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>FAT:
>>>Red Tornado (Golden Age)
>>>Herbie the Fat Fury
>>>Chunk
>>>Fat Marvel
>>Blimp from the Inferior Five.
>
> Notice that they're all joke characters? There's a reason for this.
Chuck Taine.
Ted Kord (spent a year or two chunked out).
Amanda Waller.
Dan Dreiberg.
Eugene Patilio.
Chester Runk. (And, no, dammit, "Chunk" was no joke character.)
--
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
|| E-mail: ykw2006 ||"The mystery of government is not how Washington||
|| -at-gmail-dot-com ||works but how to make it stop." -- P.J. O'Rourke||
|| ----------- || ------------------------------------ ||
||Replace "-at-" with|| Keeping Usenet Trouble-Free ||
|| "@" to respond. || Since 1998 ||
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
YKW '06
> Speaking very generally, people who are fat, bald, and/or ugly do not
> necessarily consider these traits to to integral to their identities
Wow. Do you even know anyone who is one or two of those, let alone all
three? Maybe I just have an odd load of acquaintances, but whether they
embrace or loathe their payout on the genetic lottery, I don't know -
anyone- sitting at the lonelier end of the bell curve on any one of these
traits who =doesn't= tend to obsess about it.
YKW '06
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
Go rent THE INCREDIBLES.
Tom
Ah, thank you for this.
In another post you wrote you like Batman because he uses his powers to
the max. So, which is it, bunky?
You like Batman, you don't like Batman or you like Batman because he
attracts "fags."
Have fun,
Tom
Jay Rudin
>> Speaking very generally, people who are fat, bald, and/or ugly do not
>> necessarily consider these traits to to integral to their identities
> Wow. Do you even know anyone who is one or two of those, let alone all
> three? Maybe I just have an odd load of acquaintances, but whether they
> embrace or loathe their payout on the genetic lottery, I don't know -
> anyone- sitting at the lonelier end of the bell curve on any one of these
> traits who =doesn't= tend to obsess about it.
Well, I'm fat, starting to go bald, and 50, and I agree with gandrwedding.
I don't feel any need to read about older, fatter super-heroes. (This is
also why I never understood the need for kid side-kicks when I was a kid. I
didn't identify with Robin then.)
But there's another issue that I think is part of it. Comic book characters
tend to be the kind of person who is fun to draw.
Jay Rudin
Jay Rudin
> This complaint is from the mainstream media.
>
> Why are you giving them the time of day?
Agreed. Comic book heroes are far more diverse than TV news anchors have
ever been.
Jay Rudin
Peter Bruells
> Peter Bruells wrote:
>
> > Same reason as for atheletes and politicians - baldness implies
> > physical unfitness, esp. in this age of standardized TV beauty,
> > therefore bald superheroes don't get accepted. Unless they are
> > telepaths or hot sorcereresses.
>
> That's the Meta Reason, though, and I fully agree with you. I'm hoping
> someone can come up with a reasonable explaination that makes sense in
> the comic universe, though.
That was the in story reasons. Fat and bald superheroes don't get to
network, so they give up.
flask
complaints about the lack of fat professional baseball players, for
There are tons of fat baseball players. Take a look at ESPN, you may not
have noticed Barry Bonds is a big fat-assed tub of lard. So are nearly all
the "sluggers."
Basketball has Shaq and several other players who are either over 300lbs
(like Shaq) or close to it. Football has tons of big fat slobs. So does
Golf, Bowling, etc.
So what was your point? BTW, the only fat/bald heroes you pointed out where
all parodies except for the Red Tornado; and he was not very popular in the
Golden Age (or ever).
Make Batman grow fat and bald like Modok (Marvel villain). Batman can fly
around in a hover-scooter and catch bad guys just using his wits.
Lilith
Go, Tom!!! :-)
--
Lilith
Lilith
Bald? Yes. Overweight? Memory is foggy on that. I seem to recall
that originaly he was a bit on the soft side. But I also recall
either a failed series or a mini for him in which he suddenly was very
trim. And he had his hair in a pony tail which really made him
masculine looking.
I wonder if athletic appearance is an editorial requirement or if it's
just assumed by the artist that all heroes are to be depicted as such.
--
Lilith
Lilith
>"Norton Zenger" <> I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there
>complaints about the lack of fat professional baseball players, for
>instance?- >
>
>There are tons of fat baseball players. Take a look at ESPN, you may not
>have noticed Barry Bonds is a big fat-assed tub of lard. So are nearly all
>the "sluggers."
>
>Basketball has Shaq and several other players who are either over 300lbs
>(like Shaq) or close to it. Football has tons of big fat slobs. So does
>Golf, Bowling, etc.
>
>So what was your point? BTW, the only fat/bald heroes you pointed out where
>all parodies except for the Red Tornado; and he was not very popular in the
>Golden Age (or ever).
I believe the Red Tornado of the Golden Age was female. Ma Hunkle. As
for the current Red Tornado, what would be the point of building a
pauchy android when you have control over the creative process.
--
Lilith
Desscribe
Lilith wrote:
> >Technically, someone like Zatanna could well have Amanda Waller's
> >figure. That she doesn't isn't caused by her running around, but
> >because fishnet stockings look better than whalenet stockings.
>
> Or because she can say, "annataZ eb niht." For all we know, her figure
> is nothing but an illusion.
In Mark Gruenwald's "Squadron Supreme" mini-series, the Zatanna
counterpart (Arcanna) actually WAS overweight and less-than-gorgeous,
but used her powers to create an illusory appearance.
Erich
Jay Rudin
>>So what was your point? BTW, the only fat/bald heroes you pointed out
>>where
>>all parodies except for the Red Tornado; and he was not very popular in
>>the
>>Golden Age (or ever).
Well, she was also a parody.
> I believe the Red Tornado of the Golden Age was female. Ma Hunkle. As
> for the current Red Tornado, what would be the point of building a
> pauchy android when you have control over the creative process.
Good point. And it applies as a meta-reason to all characters when you
realize that the characters are drawn, and the artist has control over the
creative process.
Jay Rudin
gandrw...@gmail.com
I think there are a variety of factors.
One is that many artists learned to draw super-heroes by drawing other
super-heroes, so studly men and hot chicks are all they know how to
draw.
I actually generally always assumed that they weren't REALLY all that
attractive (in the sense that they are REALLY anything), it was just
artistic style to draw them that way. The counter-point to that was
one issue of Outsiders, where Arsenal is asked why he spends so much
time getting laid, and he basically responded that he was surrounded by
gorgeous athletic women so how could he not? Which would insinuate
that, statistics aside, the heroic super-powered women are actually all
attractive women.
Michael S. Schiffer
news:c6ua82hetdiif18m8...@4ax.com:
>...
> I believe the Red Tornado of the Golden Age was female. Ma
> Hunkle. As for the current Red Tornado, what would be the point
> of building a pauchy android when you have control over the
> creative process.
If you were duplicating a human who had a paunch-- e.g., Urthlo in
the LSH, a robot built in the 20th century by the adult Luthor to
wreak revenge on Superboy and the Legion in the 30th, who was in fact
fat, bald, and ugly. (And came complete with programming tapes
labeled "Hate Superboy", "Hate Legion", and "Hate Hate Hate". Of
course, now you'd have a downloadable firmware update for "Hate
Superboy 2.07865 beta" instead.)
I know that's sort of beside the point, but how often does one get a
chance to bring up Urthlo?
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Michael S. Schiffer
news:1149613733.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
>...
> I think there are a variety of factors.
>
> One is that many artists learned to draw super-heroes by drawing
> other super-heroes,
Or other sources that introduce their own problems. (E.g., the
recurring complaint that superheroines tend to adopt poses from
skin mags-- which don't reflect how people, however athletic, tend
to move or sit when they're not doing photo shoots, or which
include clothing, cosmetics, and surgical enhancements that don't
fit a given character's history or personality.)
so studly men and hot chicks are all they
> know how to draw.
>...
I'm reminded of a Gen 13 issue where one of the characters (I don't
really remember who was who) lost her powers, and with them her
enhanced physique. This was done as a last-panel reveal with her
in her original form, presumably intended to be mousy and ordinary-
looking (and wearing glasses). Problem was, she *still* looked
like a model, to the point where my wife and I (both new readers)
couldn't figure out what was supposed to have happened till the
next month.
I also remember, while in college, looking over a retelling of
Captain America's origin with a friend who was both an artist and a
bodybuilder, who pointed out that the pre-serum, supposedly 4F
Steve Rogers looked remarkably buff. ("Look, he has *tricep
definition".)
Michael S. Schiffer
news:1149612369.1...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>...
> In Mark Gruenwald's "Squadron Supreme" mini-series, the Zatanna
> counterpart (Arcanna) actually WAS overweight and
> less-than-gorgeous, but used her powers to create an illusory
> appearance.
IIRC, she wasn't overweight or less than gorgeous, she was just
pregnant. (The illusion maintained her pre-pregnancy appearance, but
didn't change her face or give her a figure she hadn't had
originally.)
Tim Turnip
<msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote:
>"Desscribe" <dessc...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:1149612369.1...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>...
>> In Mark Gruenwald's "Squadron Supreme" mini-series, the Zatanna
>> counterpart (Arcanna) actually WAS overweight and
>> less-than-gorgeous, but used her powers to create an illusory
>> appearance.
>
>IIRC, she wasn't overweight or less than gorgeous, she was just
>pregnant. (The illusion maintained her pre-pregnancy appearance, but
>didn't change her face or give her a figure she hadn't had
>originally.)
Correct, Desscribe is probably thinking of Arcanna's adversary
Moonglow, who did use illusory powers to give herself a more
traditionally superheroinesque figure and facial appearance.
gandrw...@gmail.com
>
> I also remember, while in college, looking over a retelling of
> Captain America's origin with a friend who was both an artist and a
> bodybuilder, who pointed out that the pre-serum, supposedly 4F
> Steve Rogers looked remarkably buff. ("Look, he has *tricep
> definition".)
>
I remember an issue of Hulk, during Peter David's run, I think, where
Bruce commented that he was getting in better shape, possibly as a
result of constantly changing back and forth to the Hulk.
It was only mentioned one time, and I wasn't sure where they were going
with it. Wondering if it was a commentary on this subject - that
"puny" Banner had some serious muscles.
Fallen
>"Norton Zenger" <rusho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:oa7782hvbrko6qpkp...@4ax.com...
>
>
>>One of the complaints I've heard about the whole "gay Batwoman" thing goes
>>like this:
>>
>>"If they really wanted to be representative, they'd include some fat or
>>bald
>>superheroes."
>>
>>I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning- are there complaints about the
>>lack
>>of fat professional baseball players, for instance?- but there are some
>>superheroes who are less then golden Adonises.
>>
>>FAT:
>>Red Tornado (Golden Age)
>>Herbie the Fat Fury
>>Chunk
>>Fat Marvel
>>
>>SHORT:
>>Atom (Golden Age)
>>Rorschach
>>
>>Feel free to add to this list.
>>
>>PS- I left off villains, because if I included them people would just say
>>"Oh,
>>sure, it's easy to portray a bald guy in a negative light."
>>
>>
>
>The REAL diversity would have fat OR ugly FEMALE superheroes--who don't
>instantly get skinny ala NEW MUTANTS' Karma.
>
>Male heroes can be fat, bald AND ugly--and still have thin, long-haired, hot
>wives (ala television).
>
>-- Ken from Chicago
>
>P.S. THE AVENGERS' Moondragon was both bald and gay superheroine. ALPHA
>FLIGHT's Northstar was gay but was Canadian so obvious the 'Mer'kin Media
>conspired to ignore him. FLASH's Pied Piper was gay but he was only a
>recently-reformed rogue.
>
>
>
>
The girl with the dinosaur in Runaways is short, fat and not
particularly attractive 'and' she was the one who got the good looking boy.
Fallen.
Desscribe
Tim Turnip wrote:
> Correct, Desscribe is probably thinking of Arcanna's adversary
> Moonglow, who did use illusory powers to give herself a more
> traditionally superheroinesque figure and facial appearance.
Yes, I realized my mistake as soon as I went off-line...
Erich
The Watch Dog
gandrw...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I actually generally always assumed that they weren't REALLY all that
> attractive (in the sense that they are REALLY anything), it was just
> artistic style to draw them that way.
"I'm not really bad, I'm just drawn that way." - Jessica Rabbit
The Watch Dog
Tom
Thanks, Lilith! ;-)
Have fun,
Tom
Mikel Midnight
Meat <g...@maki.ca> wrote:
> Chlorophyll Kid of the Legion of Substitute Heroes
I'm loath to include him. He was drawn that way for one appearence and
it didn't relate at all to any other presentation of the character, it
was just done for a cheap joke.
> Balding heroes, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe
> it's because most heroes are in their late 20s to early 30s, where hair
> loss, while still possible, is not as common. I seem to recall some "5
> Year Gap" Legion members drawn with receeding hairlines, but can't
> recally any specifics. LIkewise, Kingdom Come Superman was drawn with
> a noticable widow's peak.
I'm sure someone else will mention this, but Roy Thomas revealed that
Alan Scott had been wearing a toupee for years (which cracked me up,
btw).
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Mikel Midnight
"You will die, sir, either on the gallows or from the
pox." (John Montagu, fourth Earl of Sandwich)
"That depends, sir, on whether I embrace your principles
or your mistress." (John Wilkes, sometime friend of his
and rakish member of the aristocracy)
blak...@blaklion.best.vwh.net
_______________________________________http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/comics.html
Norton Zenger
>
>janklo...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Jonn Jonzz anyone?
>>
>> Not fat, but he is green. And bald. and if not ugly then certainly
>> fearsome looking.
>
>I'm pretty sure that the original poster wanted to limit the discussion
>to humans, or human looking aliens (Kryptonian, Thanagarian, Rannian,
>etc). Otherwise, much of the Green Lantern Corps would apply (Salakk,
>Abin Sur, Tomar Re, and a huge number are all bald while a good number
>have some girth, not the least of which is Mogo).
Yeah, I don't really think non-humans count for the purposes of this
discussion.