How are people liking no Superman and Batman stories?
Joe
Wow DC is taking a huge chance having their two best heroes go on
vacation at this time. Superman stories had been slipping anyway so
it seems to me that they would try to prop him up by juicing up the
stories verses sending him away. Batman was going well so why the "no
Bruce Wayne Batman" for a while. He will be back.
Just wondering if the fans out there are liking what they see with the
books. Me personally, I cant read the Superman books without
Superman. Just too boring. They are doing somewhat ok with Batman
but he has a better supporting cast then Superman so that is not a
surprise. Superman doesnt have a strong supporting cast so him
dissappearing is tough on a Superman fan.
So fans who do you think?
grinningdemon
wrote:
>
>Wow DC is taking a huge chance having their two best heroes go on
>vacation at this time. Superman stories had been slipping anyway so
>it seems to me that they would try to prop him up by juicing up the
>stories verses sending him away. Batman was going well so why the "no
>Bruce Wayne Batman" for a while. He will be back.
Of course he'll be back.
>Just wondering if the fans out there are liking what they see with the
>books. Me personally, I cant read the Superman books without
>Superman. Just too boring. They are doing somewhat ok with Batman
>but he has a better supporting cast then Superman so that is not a
>surprise. Superman doesnt have a strong supporting cast so him
>dissappearing is tough on a Superman fan.
>
>So fans who do you think?
To be fair, they are both still appearing in certain books...the
superman situation doesn't really bother me so much because he is
still around and i am hopeful there will be a decent pay off in the
end...the batman situation, however, bugs the hell out of me...not so
much because bruce is gone as because of how they did it and what's
been done in his absence...they "killed" him off rather
unceremoniously in a book that not only was NOT a Batman story but
didn't even have a significant Batman role...he just showed up to
die...and there was no fanfare given to this at all...they just moved
directly to shove someone else into his suit and now it's as though no
one even misses Bruce at all...I HATE that...Bruce Wayne is
Batman...period...and Dick Grayson was barely even carying his own
book so why the hell would they hand over the whole Bat-franchise to
him? It's crap.
vo...@webtv.net
make even him start to believe he's Batman then have Bruce come back
and Dick resent being a second stringer again. I agree, he's a much
stronger character. I think I would have been more okay if we'd actually
gotten Mon-El instead of Nightwing and Flamebird. He's mostly known as
the Legion guy who's like Superboy. This was our chance to know him.
Instead we get this jumping around. I also don't like Gen. Lane and Lucy
as villains. Don't we already have Amanda Waller for this?
Brenda Clough
The entire thing is set up so that Bruce Wayne can come back. That is
why Hush is rolling around having 'stolen' Bruce Wayne's identity, for
instance. It is surely correct what the JLAers were saying, that Bruce
would have set up a contingency plan for this kind of thing; it is also
logical that Dick Grayson was that contingency. He is doing reasonably
well as Batman, and I do like the dynamic with Damian as Robin. (Tim
taking on the name 'Red Robin' is just ridiculous.)
Brenda
Kenneth M. Lin
"Joe" <skyki...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fdvpf5hisctr51cf6...@4ax.com...
>
> Wow DC is taking a huge chance having their two best heroes go on
> vacation at this time. Superman stories had been slipping anyway so
> it seems to me that they would try to prop him up by juicing up the
> stories verses sending him away. Batman was going well so why the "no
> Bruce Wayne Batman" for a while. He will be back.
>
while he's away from Earth. Either that or run New Krypton stories on the
regular titles. Both Action and Superman have been awful. It's almost as
DC doesn't care what happen to these titles. They will regret losing so
many readers and this will be detrimental in the long run unless all the
"superstar" creators are coming back to the titles eventually.
Mon-El used to be my favorite character in 80s but he's so bland right now.
Everybody knows that he'd lose his immunity to lead as soon as Superman
comes back. Nightwing and Flamebird are completely devoid of personalities
and I wouldn't mind seeing them get whacked off. And Action Comics costs a
buck more.
YKW (ad hoc)
news:fdvpf5hisctr51cf6...@4ax.com:
The Superman books =with= Superman (SECRET ORIGIN, NEW KRYPTON) are
gawdawful now, too, so it's not a simple matter of putting him back in
his own titles again. (Since said titles are marred by an incredibly
stupid storyline themselves, it'll take quite some time before either the
character or his books are anywhere near "good" again.)
Batman, though, is another story entirely. Aside from the interminable
line-wide Hush subplot and the League of Assassins nonsense in RED ROBIN
-- and, of course, the Grant Morrison book -- the Bat-wing experiment has
led to the best Bat-books since Jim Aparo and Graham Nolan were drawing
the things. Like Bucky-Cap over at Marvel, I'm in no hurry to see Bruce
come back and take the cowl back.
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when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
-- The One, 14 Oct 08
YKW (ad hoc)
news:mIOdne6q38WhdGHX...@giganews.com:
> And Action Comics costs a
> buck more.
But... but... you got a Captain Atom back-up that took about four months
to make any sense at all. Wasn't that worth an extra dollar?
grinningdemon
wrote:
Except that Bruce's "death message" to Dick specifically asked him NOT
to become Batman...and it goes against the last 30 years of his
characterization to do so...and Damien is an obnoxious little shit
than needs to die.
grinningdemon
NONE of these bat-books are anywhere near as good as Captain America
has been...or even as good as when Brubaker was working on the
batbooks a few years back...the only thing I actually like about this
mess is the bat-family is finally coming back together (they've been
largely fractured the last few years) but it annoys me that Batman is
nowhere in sight...this would have worked much better if they had
simply had no batman for a while rather than pulling the same old
predictable crap DC always does...THAT might have actually been an
interesting read.
grinningdemon
<kennet...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>"Joe" <skyki...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:fdvpf5hisctr51cf6...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Wow DC is taking a huge chance having their two best heroes go on
>> vacation at this time. Superman stories had been slipping anyway so
>> it seems to me that they would try to prop him up by juicing up the
>> stories verses sending him away. Batman was going well so why the "no
>> Bruce Wayne Batman" for a while. He will be back.
>>
>I personally think that DC should have placed Superman titles on hiatus
>while he's away from Earth. Either that or run New Krypton stories on the
>regular titles. Both Action and Superman have been awful. It's almost as
>DC doesn't care what happen to these titles. They will regret losing so
>many readers and this will be detrimental in the long run unless all the
>"superstar" creators are coming back to the titles eventually.
It would have defeated the purpose if the superman titles went on
hiatus while he was away from earth...the point is to see the DCU
without Superman in it...not to just skip over that part.
>Mon-El used to be my favorite character in 80s but he's so bland right now.
>Everybody knows that he'd lose his immunity to lead as soon as Superman
>comes back. Nightwing and Flamebird are completely devoid of personalities
>and I wouldn't mind seeing them get whacked off. And Action Comics costs a
>buck more.
I wouldn't mind seeing Nightwing and Flamebird go either.
Joe
I agree. It wa done, Bruce going away, in a way that really left one
cold. Yes he will be back but not soon enough.
Daibhid Ceanaideach
No-one even misses Bruce at all? Aren't you reading Red Robin?
--
Dave
"All those with psychokinesis, raise my hand."
The Room With No Doors, Kate Orman
grinningdemon
<daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote:
Yeah, Tim Drake is the only one...and everyone else treats him like
he's nuts for doing so...GREAT story.
Batgirl and Red Robin are the only bat-books I can even stand right
now and I haven't been particularly impressed by either.
YKW (ad hoc)
news:4qdrf5d265mo331il...@4ax.com:
>>No-one even misses Bruce at all? Aren't you reading Red Robin?
>
> Yeah, Tim Drake is the only one...and everyone else treats him like
> he's nuts for doing so...GREAT story.
In fairness, everybody either saw or has been told that Superman
witnessed his death and recovered his corpse. That goes a long way in
most folks' minds toward suggesting he's really snuffed it this time.
> Batgirl and Red Robin are the only bat-books I can even stand right
> now and I haven't been particularly impressed by either.
BATGIRL is a fun book, with a noticeable old-school Spider-Girl vibe
(except, this time, the second-person voice-over is real). RED ROBIN
needs to chuck the Ra's al-Ghul/LoA nonsense and get on with the
detectifying.
Mike B
> grinningdemon wrote:
>
>>>No-one even misses Bruce at all? Aren't you reading Red Robin?
>> Yeah, Tim Drake is the only one...and everyone else treats him
>> like he's nuts for doing so...GREAT story.
>
> In fairness, everybody either saw or has been told that Superman
> witnessed his death and recovered his corpse. That goes a long way
> in most folks' minds toward suggesting he's really snuffed it this
> time.
To nitpick, I'd say there's a difference between MISSING Bruce and
going around telling he's not dead and you're going to find him. No
wonder people think he's stuck in the denial phase of grief.
Not to mention, that skull Black Hand is carrying around in BLACKEST
NIGHT is supposed to be Bruce's, pretty good evidence for most people.
I actually think he IS dead in the conventional sense, but that he
will conquer it as Shilo Norman as Mister Miracle did in SEVEN
SOLDIERS when he beat the lives he was trapped in.
grinningdemon
<FluffyM...@foxnews.com> wrote:
>grinningdemon <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:4qdrf5d265mo331il...@4ax.com:
>
>>>No-one even misses Bruce at all? Aren't you reading Red Robin?
>>
>> Yeah, Tim Drake is the only one...and everyone else treats him like
>> he's nuts for doing so...GREAT story.
>
>In fairness, everybody either saw or has been told that Superman
>witnessed his death and recovered his corpse. That goes a long way in
>most folks' minds toward suggesting he's really snuffed it this time.
But, the DC superhero community, this is hardly the first time this
has happened...furthermore, even when they actually are dead, they
never stay that way...so everyone immediately acting like Tim is nuts
because he doesn't immediately write Bruce off seems more than a
little out of place to me...furthermore, that it is Tim, of all
people, who is this upset of the prospect of losing Bruce also seems a
bit off...if anything, I would think Dick should be the most upset
here...but no one else even seems to care the Bruce is gone at all.
>> Batgirl and Red Robin are the only bat-books I can even stand right
>> now and I haven't been particularly impressed by either.
>
>BATGIRL is a fun book, with a noticeable old-school Spider-Girl vibe
>(except, this time, the second-person voice-over is real). RED ROBIN
>needs to chuck the Ra's al-Ghul/LoA nonsense and get on with the
>detectifying.
Batgirl is ok but it could be better...I really don't care anything
about the crippled wonder twin subplot, the new costume blows, and I'm
still pissed at how they discarded Cassandra.
You're spot on about Red Robin but I don't like how unstable Tim comes
off in the series and, while I can appreciate the globe-trotting
nature of the book, it would be nice to have some familiar faces in
the supporting cast instead of Lucius Fox's daughter (who, to my
knowledge, didn't exist prior to this series) and a bunch of throwaway
Assassins that no one cares about...the book doesn't even rate an
actual appearance by Ra's himself...and I would think, if someone from
that side of the fence were going to help in Tim's search, it would be
Talia...and that could set up an interesting dynamic for the
innevitable confrontation with Batwing and Damien.
grinningdemon
wrote:
>YKW (ad hoc) wrote:
>> grinningdemon wrote:
>>
>>>>No-one even misses Bruce at all? Aren't you reading Red Robin?
>>> Yeah, Tim Drake is the only one...and everyone else treats him
>>> like he's nuts for doing so...GREAT story.
>>
>> In fairness, everybody either saw or has been told that Superman
>> witnessed his death and recovered his corpse. That goes a long way
>> in most folks' minds toward suggesting he's really snuffed it this
>> time.
>
>To nitpick, I'd say there's a difference between MISSING Bruce and
>going around telling he's not dead and you're going to find him. No
>wonder people think he's stuck in the denial phase of grief.
Again, death is hardly a certainty in the superhero world...a bit of
skepticism actually seems to make more sense to me than instantly
accepting Batman is dead.
>Not to mention, that skull Black Hand is carrying around in BLACKEST
>NIGHT is supposed to be Bruce's, pretty good evidence for most people.
The Red Robin series only just caught up to Blackest Night with this
week's issue, so that hasn't been a factor yet...and that plot still
seems to be developing so it's too soon to judge anyway.
>I actually think he IS dead in the conventional sense, but that he
>will conquer it as Shilo Norman as Mister Miracle did in SEVEN
>SOLDIERS when he beat the lives he was trapped in.
There are any number of possibilities here...at one point, the idea of
the Omega Sanction was that it would send you off to lead a series of
miserable lives (so that body could be from any one of those
lives)...also, with time travel involved, there is nothing to say that
it isn't just Bruce's corpse taken from some other point in
time...since it was Morrison's plotline, the one things we can be sure
of are that it will be weird and convoluted.
The King of Gaming
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Have all the "death messages" been revealed? The only ones I've seen
have been Alfred's and Jason's...
grinningdemon
Tim's and Dick's were revealed (I think it was in Battle for the
Cowl)...or at least the substance of them was revealed...I don't
remember if there was an actual scene showing Bruce's recording but I
know that what he had said was revealed...and, actually, on second
though, I think Tim's was revealed in the final issue of
Robin...because it was part of the reason he let Jason out of prison.
Duggy
wrote:
> I personally think that DC should have placed Superman titles on hiatus
> while he's away from Earth.
I think Superman should focus on him not-on-Earth and Action on Mon-
El.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Except that Bruce's "death message" to Dick specifically asked him NOT
> to become Batman...and it goes against the last 30 years of his
> characterization to do so
How so?
===
= DUG.
===
grinningdemon
The whole reason he became Nightwing in the first place was to get out
of Batman's shadow...pretty much everything he's done since has been
about establishing an independent identity...and, even though he was
upset that Bruce chose Azrael to replace him, he never wanted the gig
himself...and, when he did temporarily take over as Batman following
that, he absolutely hated it and it all caused something of a rift
between Bruce and Dick that lasted for a good while...what it all
comes down to is Dick never wanted to be Batman at all and Bruce knew
that so he never asked him to take over.
And, aside from the characterization issue, the only advantage in
having someone else take over as Batman is if everyone thinks it's
still the same guy...in this case, everyone knew Batman was dead or
missing and they all know it isn't the same guy now so Dick might as
well still be wearing his Nightwing costume.
Brenda Clough
>
> And, aside from the characterization issue, the only advantage in
> having someone else take over as Batman is if everyone thinks it's
> still the same guy...in this case, everyone knew Batman was dead or
> missing and they all know it isn't the same guy now so Dick might as
> well still be wearing his Nightwing costume.
In fact they're making a big thing of people noticing a difference in
Batman and being suspicious. In other words, the fact that it is a new
person in the bat suit is not widely known and has not been publicized.
People have to deduce it.
Brenda
grinningdemon
wrote:
>grinningdemon wrote:
So it's Prodigal all over again then?
Anyway, that's not how it was portrayed leading up to it...everyone in
the DCU seemed to know that Batman was dead or missing and almost
everyone seemed to know exactly who was next in line for the
suit...hell, even Catman and Bane knew he was going to take over...if
nothing else, it should be obvious that it's not the same guy since
Bruce was quite a bit taller and buffer than Dick (a point that was
made in recent interviews about the look of the new Batman).
And the idea that Batman being gone would cause Gotham to fall apart
doesn't really fit either since he was gone for a whole year during 52
(along with Nightwing and Robin, no less) and the city didn't go to
hell in his absence...and Morrison was even one of the writers of 52.
Brenda Clough
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:11:59 -0500, Brenda Clough <Bre...@sff.net>
> wrote:
>
>> grinningdemon wrote:
>>
>>> And, aside from the characterization issue, the only advantage in
>>> having someone else take over as Batman is if everyone thinks it's
>>> still the same guy...in this case, everyone knew Batman was dead or
>>> missing and they all know it isn't the same guy now so Dick might as
>>> well still be wearing his Nightwing costume.
>>
>>
>> In fact they're making a big thing of people noticing a difference in
>> Batman and being suspicious. In other words, the fact that it is a new
>> person in the bat suit is not widely known and has not been publicized.
>> People have to deduce it.
>>
>> Brenda
>
> So it's Prodigal all over again then?
>
> Anyway, that's not how it was portrayed leading up to it...everyone in
> the DCU seemed to know that Batman was dead or missing and almost
> everyone seemed to know exactly who was next in line for the
> suit...hell, even Catman and Bane knew he was going to take over...if
> nothing else, it should be obvious that it's not the same guy since
> Bruce was quite a bit taller and buffer than Dick (a point that was
> made in recent interviews about the look of the new Batman).
Well you get cops in Gotham saying, "Wow, when was the last time you saw
him SMILE?!"
Brenda
grinningdemon
wrote:
Batman shouldn't smile...that's just sick and wrong.
ri
Bruce is dead.....but will get better