PREVIEW: Dave's DC Auguries for March
Dave Van Domelen
Another pack of B&W previews has landed in my mailbox. This time,
they're all complete proofs, just lacking colors and some edits.
Covered this month:
Authority #13 (partial) - Wildstorm
Legion Lost #1 (of 12)
Battleaxes #1 (of 4) - Vertigo
Swamp Thing #1 - Vertigo
Creature Commandos #1 (of 8)
Realworlds: Batman (partial)
Young Justice: Sins of Youth #1 (of 2)
What the heck, reading it all this time.
Authority: Millar and Quitely take over this issue, and I'm glad I'm
dropping the title. The story feels almost petty...mind you, anything would
seem small compared to the blowouts of #1-12, but this is nyah-nyah petty.
Granted, there's some serious implications that this partial issue doesn't
get to, but what story there was didn't work for me. And while Quitely's art
is generally pretty good, he's made Apollo into the Elephant Man, he's just
plain hideously deformed.
Legion Lost: I'm going to do some spoilerish stuff at the end of this
post, but for now suffice to say that I'm glad I didn't order this either.
Coipel's art continues to be ugly, and the setting allows him to create stuff
that's even UGLIER. A preboot character seems to be getting reintroduced in
a way that will make even die-hard snake-haters long for the treatment Jeka
got. The setting is dystopian and pointless. Ick.
Battleaxes: By Terry Laban and Alex Horley. You know it's Vertigo in
the first panel because of the gratuitous cursing. And the fact that by the
second panel it's been established that the title characters are lesbians
(some of them, anyway). And the "Christianty is evil" bit, of course. It's
like Conan meets a bad parody of Vertigo. Avoid like the plague.
Swamp Thing: A relaunch by Brian Vaughn, Roger Peterson and Joe
Rubenstein. Hmm, first page has what seems to be a naked, murdered woman,
which does not bode well after reading Battleaxes. Okay, it's not so bad.
The narration is confusing at times, but it's not a bad story overall. Just
not one I plan to buy.
Creature Commandos: By Tim Truman and Scot Eaton/Ray Kryssing. Okay
story and art, but nothing to sway me one way or the other. Seems to maybe
be linked to the previous group of the same name, but I don't know enough
about it to say for sure.
Realworlds: Batman: Partial copy of the prestige one-shot. Written by
Christopher Golden and Tom Sniegoski, which is a good sign. Drawn by Marshal
Rogers and John Cebollero, which is okay. Hard to tell whether this'll be
good from the pages presented, since the story doesn't get to the Big Event
(June 23, 1989, figure it out) that's supposed to make such a difference for
the main character. It's not a bad story so far, but I kinda felt
uncomfortable reading it. The kind of uncomfortable you get when you're
watching someone who doesn't know any better make a fool of himself. Anyway,
nothing grabbed me enough that I really *want* to see how it turns out.
Young Justice: By the regular YJ creative team, PAD and Nauck.
Definitely makes up for the Old Justice plotline and makes it work. A little
too much "cast of thousands," (at least one of which would have been nabbed
on sight by half a dozen or more of the other heroes), but it's better than a
lot of other Event Bookends DC has put out. Worth picking up.
Dave Van Domelen, and now some spoiler space for the Legion Lost
Luggage....
Okay, at the end of the Widening Rifts story that caps off the regular
titles, half the Outpost gets stuck outside reality. Jan sticks everyone in
Tromium cocoons while he tries to figure out how to get them back, since
apparently, um...okay, I'm not sure WHY Brainy wasn't let out of the cocoon
to help. It's a stupid plot device. Anyway, he got back into the physical
universe, but in the Delta Quadrant. A new character who seems to be
Dawnstar with an insect carapace finds the Outpost and leads her Evil
Dystopian Ugly Coipellian pursuers there, where the Legion wakes up and beats
the bad guys. Jan may or may not have survived this, and now it's time to
fight through lightyears of ugly evil dystopian Coipel-designed aliens to get
home. Wake me when it's over. Or better yet, when Abnett, Lanning and
Coipel are off the Legion.
Jim Cowling
> Battleaxes: <...> And the "Christianty is evil" bit, of course.
That's good enough for me. I'll buy two.
-------
Jim Cowling -- Writer/Atheist/Geek -- a.a. # 647
http://members.home.com/scowling -- scow...@home.com
-------
Sk8Maven
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> Okay, at the end of the Widening Rifts story that caps off the
> regular titles, half the Outpost gets stuck outside reality. Jan
> sticks everyone in Tromium cocoons while he tries to figure out how
> to get them back, since apparently, um...okay, I'm not sure WHY
> Brainy wasn't let out of the cocoon to help. It's a stupid plot
> device.
Hmm...half of a major superteen team survives by being put in protective
suspension -- where have we seen *this* before? *When* did Ab/Lan get
this "clever, original" idea? Doesn't it sound entirely *too* much like
the rationale for the Legon/Titans crossover?
> Anyway, he got back into the physical universe, but in the Delta
> Quadrant.
They don't actually *say* that, do they? Hey Ab/Lan, don't make your
ripoffs so bloody blatant, willya!!!
> A new character who seems to be Dawnstar with an insect carapace
oh <expletive deleted> -- Steve Reed's gonna go postal about *this*! And
I don't like it either.
> Wake me when it's over. Or better yet, when Abnett, Lanning and
> Coipel are off the Legion.
They'll have killed the series by then.
Given the awesome "originality" shown by Ab/Lan so far, the conclusion
of it all is probably going to be some variation on "They fell out of
bed and woke up". :-P'''''''''
And we can be SURE we will have a LONG, LONG wait for any further Legion
adventures....
"This is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but with a whimper."
Maven
Steve Reed
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really is too much for such an absurdity: In Legion: Lost 1 ...
>[...] A new character who seems to be Dawnstar with an insect
>carapace finds the Outpost and leads her Evil Dystopian Ugly
>Coipellian pursuers there, where the Legion wakes up and beats
>the bad guys.
You know what's coming :-/
I was frigging afraid of this. I'm not buying it, after all, I'm looking at
it. And if this is even plausibly true, and that new mutilation's the news,
then I am outta here. (For ever buying a Legion book again.) LSH v4 n6 and
"Bounty" was hard enough to endure, over a decade ago.
>[...] Wake me when it's over. Or better yet, when Abnett,
>Lanning and Coipel are off the Legion.
A hearty second to that! But McAvennie has to go, as well, for putting this
crap onto innocent paper stock. Before I'll even -scan- it again.
--
* Stev...@earthling.net *
"You owe more devotion to the people around you than you do to
some mystical spook in the sky. If there is a god, She has no need
of being worshipped, and if She is Good, no need to have her creations
reject each other, and if She is secure and truly powerful, no need
to encourage conversion and conquest." -- Jennifer Diane Reitz
Ben Weiss
> Dave Van Domelen wrote:
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> > A new character who seems to be Dawnstar with an insect carapace
>
> oh <expletive deleted> -- Steve Reed's gonna go postal about *this*! And
> I don't like it either.
Steve's only a state away, I can feel the shrapnel from here...but it's
burning up in the Wildfire-esque flame aura that just exploded from me! A&L
must have read that joke somebody made about Dawnstar the giant cricket and
taken it seriously!!
Dave, is Dawnstar actually named?
Ben
eleme...@lsh.org
in_vale...@hotmail.com
dva...@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) wrote:
>
> Legion Lost #1 (of 12)
>
> Authority: Millar and Quitely take over this issue, and I'm glad
I'm
> dropping the title. The story feels almost petty...mind you,
anything would
> seem small compared to the blowouts of #1-12, but this is nyah-nyah
petty.
> Granted, there's some serious implications that this partial issue
doesn't
> get to, but what story there was didn't work for me. And while
Quitely's art
> is generally pretty good, he's made Apollo into the Elephant Man,
he's just
> plain hideously deformed.
Hmm, not good to hear. I'll still be giving Millar & Quitely a
chance. In fact, am looking forward to their take. Ellis gives it his
enthusiastic support. And the ideas Millar mention in the news sound
interesting. Can you give a little example of how it seemed "petty"?
> Legion Lost: I'm going to do some spoilerish stuff at the end of
this
> post, but for now suffice to say that I'm glad I didn't order this
either.
> Coipel's art continues to be ugly, and the setting allows him to
create stuff
> that's even UGLIER. A preboot character seems to be getting
reintroduced in
> a way that will make even die-hard snake-haters long for the
treatment Jeka
> got. The setting is dystopian and pointless. Ick.
I had such hopes for Legion's new creative team, but what a let down.
Abnett & Lanning are capable writers (Dan's Star Trek: Early Voyages
was fun), but they just can't seem to shake the cliche Brit SF tendicy
to dystopia settings. And more importantly, the editor is letting them
do it!
Until DC can remember that the Legion must be optimistic and heroic,
instead of grim and soap operatic, and have clean detailed imaginative
art that can make each character distinct and expessive, instead of
this sloppy dark stuff, then the titles sadly aren't worth the time.
All involved need to be sat down, made to read all of Heinlein's
"juvenile" science fiction novels and maybe the new Jupiter series by
Charles Sheffield & Jerry Pournelle, so they can relearn the right
spirit for writing the Legion.
> Realworlds: Batman: Partial copy of the prestige one-shot.
Written by
> Christopher Golden and Tom Sniegoski, which is a good sign. Drawn by
Marshal
> Rogers and John Cebollero, which is okay. Hard to tell whether
this'll be
> good from the pages presented, since the story doesn't get to the Big
Event
> (June 23, 1989, figure it out) that's supposed to make such a
difference for
> the main character. It's not a bad story so far, but I kinda felt
> uncomfortable reading it. The kind of uncomfortable you get when
you're
> watching someone who doesn't know any better make a fool of himself.
Anyway,
> nothing grabbed me enough that I really *want* to see how it turns
out.
>
I was really looking forward to this when I'd heard of some time ago
about a "realworlds" Batman with Rogers doing art, but no real story
concept mentioned.
Now, this is a real disappointment. The info in Previews is
insulting! They're trying to sell this to comic fans, instead of a
smartly thought out exploration of a Batman-like character in a world
much more like the real one, they pass off this worst derogator
sterotype of comic/superhero fans and expect us to buy this?
Also, why have Marshall Rogers pencil and then have the art inked by
someone who so utterly dominates the art that Rogers' destinctive style
isn't even slightly recognizable? What a waste!
scott tilson.
----------------------
Worth reading: DETECIVE COMICS by Greg Rucka & Shawn Martinbrough.
http://www.zanaducomics.com/detective2.html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Todd VerBeek
>> Christopher Golden and Tom Sniegoski, which is a good sign. Drawn by Marshal
>> Rogers and John Cebollero, which is okay. Hard to tell whether this'll be
>> good from the pages presented, since the story doesn't get to the Big Event
>> (June 23, 1989, figure it out) that's supposed to make such a difference for
>> the main character. It's not a bad story so far, but I kinda felt
>> uncomfortable reading it. The kind of uncomfortable you get when you're
>> watching someone who doesn't know any better make a fool of himself. Anyway,
>> nothing grabbed me enough that I really *want* to see how it turns out.
My pal in_vale...@hotmail.com said:
>I was really looking forward to this when I'd heard of some time ago
>about a "realworlds" Batman with Rogers doing art, but no real story
>concept mentioned.
>Now, this is a real disappointment. The info in Previews is
>insulting! They're trying to sell this to comic fans, instead of a
>smartly thought out exploration of a Batman-like character in a world
>much more like the real one,
Who ever said that this is what "Realworlds" was going to be? You seem to
be bitching that instead of giving you what fan speculation and rumours
made it sound like it might be, they're instead giving you what they
actually had in mind.
>they pass off this worst derogator
>sterotype of comic/superhero fans and expect us to buy this?
Worse, you're bitching about it on the =assumption= that it'll be a
insulting, before even reading it. (An assumption I find a bit troubling,
because it seems to be based on the notion that being associated with a
mentally disabled fan is inherently derogatory to the rest of us.)
You really ought to try waiting until you have actual information on hand
(which, with all due respect to Dave, means more than just a review of a
preview) before you make up your mind about things.
Cheers, Todd
--
Arrange every program to perform a single function: S.Bourne's goal with Unix
Arrange a single program to perform every function: B.Gates' goal for Windows
Dave Van Domelen
She has a personal name, but no "codename" yet. When she turns off her
carapace, she looks vaguely like a wingless Dawny (long straight hair,
similar taste in clothing, etc). She grows an insectoid carapace and has
insect-like wings for flight in space, plus she has a tracking power of some
sort.
Also, the don't call it the Delta Quadrant, that was just me being
snarky. Just "we could be on the other side of the galaxy." Same diff.
Dave Van Domelen, notes that if Abnett & Lanning have any sense of fan
reaction, they won't actually call the new tracker "Dawnstar," or any word
that is her languages translation of Dawnstar....
Steve Reed
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.. but thanks, Dave, for these details. Saved me going into shock later.
Dave Van Domelen wrote:
>Ben Weiss wrote:
>>Sk8Maven wrote:
>>>From Dave's Previews report on Legion: Lost 1:
>>>>A new character who seems to be Dawnstar with an
>>>>insect carapace [...]
>>>oh <expletive deleted> -- Steve Reed's gonna go postal about
>>>*this*! And I don't like it either.
Not my style to, say, take McAvennie hostage at gunpoint until he gets these
idiots off the book. Though it's tempting <g> ... I sublimated it this weekend
into a substitute for depression, in this case painting the garage walls. You
can't bounce off paint-covered walls. Maybe Chuck could, I can't.
>>Steve's only a state away, I can feel the shrapnel from here...but it's
>>burning up in the Wildfire-esque flame aura that just exploded from me!
You get on the Aerie honor roll for that, Ben. Even if you hadn't created fan
art and fan fiction already. I'd better finish the damn Website before Dawny
is brought back as a centipede, and everyone's forgotten what she was,
especially at the DC Message Boards.
>>A&L must have read that joke somebody made about Dawnstar the giant
>>cricket and taken it seriously!! Dave, is Dawnstar actually named?
>She has a personal name, but no "codename" yet. When she turns off her
>carapace, she looks vaguely like a wingless Dawny (long straight hair,
>similar taste in clothing, etc.).
Similar to which clothing? Her classic yellow outfit, or the nearly not-there
buckskin that Giffen dressed her in? (Which I do also adore, lifting Giffen a
rung in hell, and for which I own the original color-key art, LSH v3 n54.)
>She grows an insectoid carapace and has insect-like wings for flight
>in space, [...]
Not conclusive, sounds Cham-ish, maybe there's hope yet ...
>[...] plus she has a tracking power of some sort.
Well, so much for hope. This is their insipid twist on plagiarism? And we're
expected to wonder who they're copying? Who was the -only- Legionnaire to have
this power?
I'm not supporting it. Not -buying- such an atrocity was foreordained. But now
I don't think I'm even going to -read- the damn thing. I'll let others among
you intrepid souls report on it, and spare me the first-hand shock.
>[...] if Abnett & Lanning have any sense of fan reaction, they won't
>actually call the new tracker "Dawnstar," or any word that is her
>language's translation of Dawnstar ...
The only way to spare them from a swift and bloody annihilation.
<rueful smile ... wonder how much Priceline could save me on a round trip to
London? better start planning such reveng^H^H^H^H^H^H sightseeing early ...
see, I can smile, I'm recovering already, okay, Nurse Ratched, I'm done with
dinner now ...>
SDelMonte
dva...@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) writes regarding L-Lost:
>Wake me when it's over. Or better yet, when Abnett, Lanning and
>Coipel are off the Legion.
I fear it IS over. If this minseries is really that bad, it will spell the end
of the Legion for some time to come.
Tis a pity...
Simon DelMonte
Johanna Draper Carlson
> If this minseries is really that bad, it will spell the end
> of the Legion for some time to come.
I suspect that the Legion's over for me no matter what.
If the miniseries tanks, we either get no Legion or another radical revamp.
If it succeeds, then they'll keep doing what got them success: small team,
ugly art, bad writing.
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Sk8Maven
> > If this minseries is really that bad, it will spell the end
> > of the Legion for some time to come.
>
> I suspect that the Legion's over for me no matter what.
This from you, Johanna?
> If the miniseries tanks, we either get no Legion or another radical
> revamp.
Probably no Legion -- the mini is basically its last chance.
> If it succeeds, then they'll keep doing what got them success: small
> team, ugly art, bad writing.
And sooner or later, fans will get tired of that and it'll tank and
there will be no more Legion.
And eventually someone will come along who says "There was a good idea
here, let me see what I can do with it." This has happened with the
Titans and the JSA -- no reason it couldn't happen with the Legion. But
it may be quite a long wait.
Maven
bre...@hotmail.com
> > Legion Lost: I'm going to do some spoilerish stuff at the end
of
> this
> > post, but for now suffice to say that I'm glad I didn't order this
> either.
> > Coipel's art continues to be ugly, and the setting allows him to
> create stuff
> > that's even UGLIER. A preboot character seems to be getting
> reintroduced in
> > a way that will make even die-hard snake-haters long for the
> treatment Jeka
> > got. The setting is dystopian and pointless. Ick.
>
> I had such hopes for Legion's new creative team, but what a let down.
> Abnett & Lanning are capable writers (Dan's Star Trek: Early Voyages
> was fun), but they just can't seem to shake the cliche Brit SF tendicy
> to dystopia settings. And more importantly, the editor is letting
them
> do it!
>
> Until DC can remember that the Legion must be optimistic and heroic,
> instead of grim and soap operatic,
I must disagree completely here, as an avid v4 fan. For me, at least
the grim and soap operatic tone worked better than anything Ive seen on
the legion, before or since.
and have clean detailed imaginative
> art that can make each character distinct and expessive, instead of
> this sloppy dark stuff, then the titles sadly aren't worth the time.
> All involved need to be sat down, made to read all of Heinlein's
> "juvenile" science fiction novels and maybe the new Jupiter series by
> Charles Sheffield & Jerry Pournelle, so they can relearn the right
> spirit for writing the Legion.
Disagree again. Im a cranky 30 year old. Id much rather read about
other cranky 30 year olds than cheerful teens. There should be _nothing_
juvenile about the legion, with the exception of how Tenzil Kem clowns
around.
In short, I'm _really_ looking forward to Legion Lost; now granted if
the art and writing are as bad as you seem to indicate I probably wont
support the whole series; but the premise seems promising enough.
And I suspect Im not the only one who feels this way.
R
John Northey
> If this minseries is really that bad, it will spell the end
> of the Legion for some time to come.
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>I suspect that the Legion's over for me no matter what.
>If the miniseries tanks, we either get no Legion or another radical revamp.
>If it succeeds, then they'll keep doing what got them success: small team,
>ugly art, bad writing.
Interesting how negative most of us here are (I've been moving more
negative by the issue during this in-between stage, but I still have
hope that things will work). Meanwhile over at Wizard 'Legion Lost'
#1 is going to be listed in issue #103 as their Book of the Month in
the Picks section (read that on Comic Book Net ...
http://hometown.aol.com/ComicBkNet/index.html). So it seems the
Legion is now becoming 'kewl'. Well, guess that is one way to get the
kids interested again.
As for us old fogies, at least we have the 'Legion of Super-Pets' by
Dave Gibbons (World's Funniest is the title) to look forward to.
John Northey.
Crazy Canadian and creator of the Fans of Teri Sue Wood site.
http://www.sentex.net/~jnorthey/TSW
My original art collection can be seen at
http://www.monsterfighters.com/don/Northey.html
--
Join AllAdvantage.com and get paid to surf the Web! Please use my ID
(HEQ-599) when asked if someone referred you. Thanks!
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Johanna Draper Carlson
> Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
>> I suspect that the Legion's over for me no matter what.
>
Did you miss the negative reviews I gave Legion of the Damned? :)
> And eventually someone will come along who says "There was a good idea
> here, let me see what I can do with it." This has happened with the
> Titans and the JSA -- no reason it couldn't happen with the Legion.
You're right. At least, if comics continue existing ...
(Why not pile on the doom and gloom while we're at it? :) )
Greg Schienke
>I must disagree completely here, as an avid v4 fan. For me, at least
>the grim and soap operatic tone worked better than anything Ive seen on
>the legion, before or since.
Which might have worked better _if_ the artwork had permitted me to
know which character was which. Note to future Legion
writers/artists: you might not think it to dress the Legion in
civilian garb and have them use there given names, but you some how
have to make each character distinctive.
>Disagree again. Im a cranky 30 year old. Id much rather read about
>other cranky 30 year olds than cheerful teens. There should be _nothing_
>juvenile about the legion, with the exception of how Tenzil Kem clowns
>around.
I'm a cranky 38 year old and I don't want to read about other cranky
38 year olds or 30 year olds or whatever. Once in awhile, it would be
nice to pick a nice, old-fashioned plot driven comic again, like the
early Legion, heck even the Legion pre-Crisis was more fun to me.
Haven't you read the memo? Grim-and-gritty is out, just ask Batman.
If I want dyspeptic futures, there other comics I can turn to. Heck,
even Vertigo's dismal future comic (Transmetropolitan) has humor
thrown in and Judge Dredd is basically a satire.
It is my opinion that most writers today are incapable of writing an
enjoyable Legion because it would cause them to use traditional
Weisinger comic conventions. Writing "adult" comics get you listed an
Entertainment Weekly's "Ones to Watch" issue, not writing cheerful
ones.
>In short, I'm _really_ looking forward to Legion Lost; now granted if
>the art and writing are as bad as you seem to indicate I probably wont
>support the whole series; but the premise seems promising enough.
I stopped buying Legion because I was tired of seeing Silver Age plot
devices continually being re-introduced with modern twists. If the
creators liked those plot devices, why were they removed from
continuity in the first place? Adding a modern edge to something
doesn't necessarily make it better, IMO, except in the eyes of the
shallow. I'd buy it again in a second, if we were given stories as
written by a Levitz or Shooter and drawn by a Cockrum or some other
clean line artist, stories that weren't so fascinated with repairing
things that shouldn't have to be repaired in the first place. Stories
that moved ahead while building on the history of the team.
>And I suspect Im not the only one who feels this way.
I sure hope not.
Greg
Sk8Maven
> I stopped buying Legion because I was tired of seeing Silver Age plot
> devices continually being re-introduced with modern twists. If the
> creators liked those plot devices, why were they removed from
> continuity in the first place?
Because Superboy was totally removed from DC continuity -- even the
ersatz Pocket Universe version of him. And the Silver Age Legion relied
*excessively* on Superboy, as a lingering result of originally having
been "guest stars" in his adventures.
> I'd buy it again in a second, if we were given stories as
> written by a Levitz or Shooter and drawn by a Cockrum or some other
> clean line artist, stories that weren't so fascinated with repairing
> things that shouldn't have to be repaired in the first place. Stories
> that moved ahead while building on the history of the team.
>
> >And I suspect Im not the only one who feels this way.
You're not. However, we're SOL as long as Abnett & Lanning are writing
the Legion, Coipel is drawing it with Lanning inking him (a change of
inker might improve the art AND the writing), and McAvennie is editor.
That last more than anything else, I think.
Maven
Sk8Maven
> >> I suspect that the Legion's over for me no matter what.
> >
> > This from you, Johanna?
>
Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
> Did you miss the negative reviews I gave Legion of the Damned? :)
Yeah, well, I think we both hoped it would be just a four-issue
aberration. Now we find the doom and gloom is going to continue for
another whole YEAR. (And Jan is NOT on the roll-call for L:VOY -- so
what little interest I had is completely GONE.)
Maven