LSH in San Diego

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Michael R. Grabois

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Aug 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/8/95
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Here's a few LSH-related items from my San Diego con report:

Day 1: Thursday July 27
Big event of the afternoon was the Legion chat, with Roger Stern, Mike
Carlin, Mark Waid, Stuart Immomen, Ron Boyd, Cory Carini, and Jeff
Moy. There was a large net presence there, as well as a number of apa
people (Interlac, etc.). Got a few hints about the future. I
introduced myself to Mark Waid as "Rob Schmidt"; this got the same
deer-in-the-headlights reaction as I'm sure Mike Chary's introduction
to Mark in Chicago got.
For dinner, the LSH-L internet mailing list group took several of the
LSH creators out to RJ's Riptide (RJ Brande?). Present were Cory
Carini, Sidne Ward, Jim Drew, Eric Sturgeon, KC Carlson, Jeff Moy,
Vernon Harmon, Troy McNemar, Liz and Ken Bartlett, David Goldfarb,
Johanna Draper, Phil Moy, and Leman Yuan (who's a fantastic costumer).
Mike Chary, Greg "Elmo" Morrow, Mike Kelly, and some other guy had
signed up for the dinner, but ditched us. I never even saw them, but
Sidne said they signed up with her. Jim Drew showed us his "Dune"
action figures he's going to make into Bouncing Boy, Star Boy, and
Livewire. KC started a round-robin "chat" on paper, while team
"Legion" kicked butt on on-line trivia. Total bill was almost $200.
Afterwards, we went back to the Marriott where we could hear
ourselves, and we talked Legion stuff until midnight: sales, the Real
Ending to the SW6 storyline, marketing dept. screwing up LSH
promotional items, characters, history, internet, etc. Then we called
it a night, and I dropped off Sidne and Vernon. Whew.

Day 2: Friday July 28
Picked up my first buy of the con: seven of the eight LSH Slurpee cups
from 1973 for 3 bucks each (I'm only missing Mon-el). I beat Troy
McNemar to the table by about 2 minutes, so he got the duplicates.
Stood in line with Cory Carini getting Anthony Daniels (C-3PO)'s
autograph; Cory said he's a fanboy too. Found a Legionnaires
pin for five bucks; what a bargain!

Day 3: Saturday July 29
For dinner, we went back to Riptides for another Legion dinner; this
one was the first integrated print and electronic meeting.
Representing electronic fandom were me, Sidne Ward, Jim Drew, Troy
McNemar, Barbara Jarvis, and Val Beasley; representing print fandom
were Harry Brojertes, Rick Morrissey, Tom and Mary Bierbaum (who had
to leave due to their infant daughter), Kevin Gould, and a number of
others (including some of the net people too). We had to stand and
state our name, favorite Legionnaire, and food order. Element Lad won
with 3 votes, out of 27 people; Matter-Eater Lad came in second with
2-1/2 votes. Fortunately, 2 of the 27 were only guests and not Legion
fans, otherwise two would have had to resign for tax purposes (obscure
Legion joke there, courtesy Jim Drew). Total food and drink bill was
about $425. Troy picked up Superboy 89 (1st Mon-el) and the v4 Legion
Sourcebook at the dinner for $38 total.

Day 4: Sunday July 29
Well, time to do some power shopping. I traded Dark Knight 1-4 (with
an extra #1) and Batman 428 for 46 cents worth of cover-price books
(Adventure 293, World's Finest 142, Jimmy Olsen 72, and Superman 147,
all Legion books).
Picked up Adventure 290 (1st appearance of Sun Boy) for $20, and then
noticed the dealer had a copy of Adventure 247 (1st Legion) for sale
cheap: $150 for a Good copy (which normally goes for $320). I couldn't
pass up a deal like that; besides, if I did, Jim Drew (who showed up
as I was looking at it) said he'd snag it up. I hate pressure. So I
went ahead and got it. That's my impulse buy of the con. Johanna
Draper and Joanna Sandsmark watched, then I watched Joanna haggle over
Brave and Bold 28 (1st JLA), which she eventually passed on. Later I
traded a 1966 "Batman" wallet (cost me 50 cents), a copy of X-Men 120
(cost me $3), and ten bucks for the Super Powers "Tyr" action figure
(his asking price: $65).


Michael R. Grabois | or...@ix.netcom.com
Houston, TX | CI$: 74737,2600
-------------------------------------------------------
"If you can read this, you're an alien trying to steal
my brain just like you did to Elvis."


Marc Singer

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Aug 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/8/95
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In article <406dep$4...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,

Michael R. Grabois <or...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>ourselves, and we talked Legion stuff until midnight: sales, the Real
>Ending to the SW6 storyline

Neat. Any chance you could repeat this here?

Marc


Bob Mosley III

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Aug 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/8/95
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In <406pgr$q...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> ma...@wam.umd.edu (Marc Singer)
writes:
>
>In article <406dep$4...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
>Michael R. Grabois <or...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>ourselves, and we talked Legion stuff until midnight: sales, the Real
>>Ending to the SW6 storyline
>
>Neat. Any chance you could repeat this here?

..Yeah, Michael! You know better than to tease us like that and leave
us hanging! :-)

OM

Michael R. Grabois

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Aug 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/9/95
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ma...@wam.umd.edu (Marc Singer) wrote:

>In article <406dep$4...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
>Michael R. Grabois <or...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>>ourselves, and we talked Legion stuff until midnight: sales, the Real

>>Ending to the SW6 storyline

>Neat. Any chance you could repeat this here?

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to get to this. <G>

According to KC Carlson, this was around the time when Giffen was
debating on whether to stay with the Legion or not. KC was editor at
the time.

The SW6 batch was the "real" Legionnaires; the adult Legionnaires were
clones and were pawns of the Dark Circle or something. The SW6 and LSH
were going to have a fight to the death -- with the victims chosen at
random, their names literally pulled out of a hat by the writer(s).
Then after it was all over, the two groups would join forces as one
big happy family.

KC at this point said "No way, this is not going to happen", and that
made up Giffen's mind to leave the series.

From stories I've heard, Giffen thought much further ahead than anyone
else, and the rest of the creative team was just trying to play
catch-up with him. He also tended to go off in wild directions; I
don't recall who was editing the series at that point, but from what I
can see the editor couldn't keep up with Giffen either.

David Goldfarb

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Aug 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/9/95
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Marc Singer <ma...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
)Michael R. Grabois <or...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
)>...the Real Ending to the SW6 storyline
)
)Neat. Any chance you could repeat this here?

Well, I may need to pause to vomit, but what Carlson said was this:

Batch SW6 are the originals.

The adults have been programmed by the Dark Circle, and go mad.

The two groups fight to the death. Giffen picks half a dozen
of them -- *at random* -- to die. (Excuse me -- back in a minute -- [hyuuch])

Where was I? Oh yes. The survivors band together into a single group.
(Shhhhhyeah. Right.)

Fortunately the editors at that time had not gone utterly insane,
and didn't allow Giffen to do that. IIRC that triggered his departure.

David Goldfarb <*>|
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "Hey, mister -- your ninja's dragging!"
gold...@UCBOCF.BITNET | -- MST3K, "Master Ninja I"
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |

G. Horton

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Aug 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/9/95
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Hi,

I just started reading at Zero Hour, so I have no idea what SW6 means. =20
Could someone explain this to me, please?

**HUG**
Gwen

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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It is rather when we gloriously forget ourselves and plunge soul-forward=
,=20
headlong, into a book=D5s profound, impassioned for its beauty and salt=
of=20
=09 truth--=D5tis then we get the right good from a book.
=09=09=09=09=09 Elizabeth Barrett Browning=09
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Gwendolyn Horton =09=09=09 gho...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu

Carl Fink

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Aug 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/10/95
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In article <409btf$r...@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
or...@ix.netcom.com (Michael R. Grabois) wrote:
[according to KC Carlson, in Giffen's original plan]

>The SW6 batch was the "real" Legionnaires; the adult Legionnaires were
>clones and were pawns of the Dark Circle or something. The SW6 and LSH
>were going to have a fight to the death -- with the victims chosen at
>random, their names literally pulled out of a hat by the writer(s).
>Then after it was all over, the two groups would join forces as one
>big happy family.
>
>KC at this point said "No way, this is not going to happen", and that
>made up Giffen's mind to leave the series.

Did you thank KC for us all? <g>

I've often said that with a strong, competent editor, V4 could have
been wonderful. I'm a big TMK-basher, but they did have some good
ideas. With a good editing job to enforce long-term plotting and
compress some of the far-too-long storylines, the whole series might
have been up to the standards of the Mordruverse story, or the two
issues where the Legionaires, still disunited, show up to rescue their
comrade(s) from Mordru.

--
Carl Fink ca...@panix.com madsci...@genie.com
Assistant Sysop, GEnie's First and Fourth Science Fiction RoundTables
The SFRT page has moved to http://sfrt.greyware.com/sfrt

con...@indy.net

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Aug 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/10/95
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>Hi,

> I just started reading at Zero Hour, so I have no idea what SW6 means. =20
>Could someone explain this to me, please?

>**HUG**
>Gwen

Gwen, I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses, 'cause this is a helpful group!
:-) **HUG** right back!

SW6 = a batch of young Legionnaires captured by the doinion and held in stasis
for 17 years just before dying, along with their old counterparts (who had
been, unbeknownst to anyone until after their deaths, planted in the LSH and
who had carried out the adventures we read about these past 17 years).
Somewhat interesting, story mainly told in Legionnaires. End of story told in
crossover called End Of An Era. Bye Bye.

JT (Fond Farewell Lad)
LLL&L!

Yeechang Lee

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Aug 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/15/95
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Michael R. Grabois <or...@ix.netcom.com> says:
|The SW6 batch was the "real" Legionnaires; the adult Legionnaires were
|clones and were pawns of the Dark Circle or something. The SW6 and LSH
|were going to have a fight to the death -- with the victims chosen at
|random, their names literally pulled out of a hat by the writer(s).
|Then after it was all over, the two groups would join forces as one
|big happy family.

Gads!

|KC at this point said "No way, this is not going to happen", and that
|made up Giffen's mind to leave the series.

Kinda reminds me of a little kid who picks up his toys and goes home
when he's told he can't throw them against the wall any more.

|From stories I've heard, Giffen thought much further ahead than
|anyone else, and the rest of the creative team was just trying to
|play catch-up with him. He also tended to go off in wild directions;
|I don't recall who was editing the series at that point, but from
|what I can see the editor couldn't keep up with Giffen either.

In other words, Giffen had lost his marbles bigtime . . .

Yeechang Lee | http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/ | Nevada Las Vegas Mission'92-'94

bgrubb

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Aug 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/15/95
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In article <40q9po$b...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Yeechang Lee
<yl...@columbia.edu> wrote:

> Michael R. Grabois <or...@ix.netcom.com> says:
> |The SW6 batch was the "real" Legionnaires; the adult Legionnaires were
> |clones and were pawns of the Dark Circle or something. The SW6 and LSH
> |were going to have a fight to the death -- with the victims chosen at
> |random, their names literally pulled out of a hat by the writer(s).
> |Then after it was all over, the two groups would join forces as one
> |big happy family.
>
> Gads!

More like BLECK. Though what DID happened was not an vast improvement.

> |KC at this point said "No way, this is not going to happen", and that
> |made up Giffen's mind to leave the series.
>
> Kinda reminds me of a little kid who picks up his toys and goes home
> when he's told he can't throw them against the wall any more.

Reminds me more of the mess between Clairmont and Marvel with the Dark
Phoenix saga. Clairmont had things maped out years in advance and then
TPTB wanted a rewrite so that 'Jean paid for the crime of frying a
populated planet' totally messed things up.
More plot derailing by TPTB finally ticked off not only Clairmont but
about about every other good writer Marvel had and made all the X-books a
continuity nightmare with Jean Grey clones and resurections coming out ot
the woodwork.

The LSH books were also a similar mess with a continuity _so_ botched up
as NO ONE (writers, readers or even characters) knew what the history
was. Which is why LSH needed the reboot. Dumping on Giffen is hardly
fair. The mess the LSH was in was totally the fault of The Powers
That Be.


> |From stories I've heard, Giffen thought much further ahead than
> |anyone else, and the rest of the creative team was just trying to
> |play catch-up with him. He also tended to go off in wild directions;
> |I don't recall who was editing the series at that point, but from
> |what I can see the editor couldn't keep up with Giffen either.
>
> In other words, Giffen had lost his marbles bigtime . . .

Almost sounds a like a replay of Clairmont near his end of writing for
the X-men. Even the creator of Dick Tracy wrote like this near the end
of his career.

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