MISC: The origin of "reboot" found!

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Winged Elmo of Samothrace

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Apr 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/1/96
to
Pursuant to some research I was consulted on for the rac.dc.u FAQ, Jerry
Franke and I seem to have found the origin of "reboot" in its current
meaning of "start continuity over again". I keep an archive of LSH-related
posts from Usenet, which started 14 Jun 94. There is no use of the string
"reboot" in the archive prior to 29 Jun 94; after that, the term receives
nearly daily usage, as it continues to do so today. It really is remarkable
exactly how fast the term came into common usage.

I include the first dozen known uses of the term below, as taken from my
archive. Unfortunately, message-IDs have been lost, but they will presumably
be recoverable as soon as Dejanews gets back to '94. In addition, a non-LSH
search for the term could be instituted at that time. However, the LSH
is a likely spot for first use of the term, because the LSH was the only
book rebooted by Zero Hour, which is when the term came into use.

So, I think, congratulations are in order to Jerry Franke, who coined the
term. Good work, Jerry!

[If anyone knows of any other Usenet groups which would be interested in
this sort of citation tracking, please e-mail me.]

**********
Date: 29 Jun 1994 03:59:57 GMT
From: fra...@sed.cs.fsu.edu (Jerry Franke)
Subject: RAC: Post ZH LSH

If you haven't read the previous posts, or really don't want to hear about
it, hit 'n' now...

I'd just like to make a few points:

1) DC is doing this for marketing reasons, plain and simple. They sit and
think "Gee, LSH isn't selling like we want it to. What could be the
problem?" Diagnosis: The Legion's long and winding history is just too
much for a new reader to handle and turns off any prospective new buyers.
Now, don't flame me -- I don't say I agree with this. However, I recently
read an article that gave that reason for a whole series of changes DC has
made. (I wish I could remember off the top of my head exactly which article
that was...) This, of course, is guaranteed to completely piss off all of
us long-term fans, but I would imagine that they would have the same
response to this as they had to Emerald Twilight: "Sure, we'll lose a few
old readers, but just think of how many new ones we'll bring in!" This will
give completely new readers a clean slate to work with, saving them the time
and trouble to actually read and learn the history...

2) It could possibly be the case that Waid might have been yanking the
original poster's chain with that info. This is not meant to call Mr. Waid
a liar; in some cases where the audience is supposed to be treated by rather
surprising developments, creators are instructed to spread false rumors to
cover up any true spoilers that may leak out. They do this all the time for
big TV and movie events (like the old "Kirk dies at the end of STVI"), and I
seem to remember PAD mentioning the Spidey crew doing this for their
comics in a BID column...

3) If this complete "reboot" does happen, I doubt I will drop the titles.
Mark Waid is enough to make me give this new Legion a try, just like PAD is
enough for me to give Harpoon-Hand Aquaman a chance. In my heart, the
reboot team will not be the "real" LSH, but I plunk down my $$ every month
to be *entertained*, not to keep continuity pure (if I felt that way, I
never would have read v4 in the first place), and as long as Waid & Co. can
entertain me consistently, I'll continue paying for it.

jlf (I admit it -- *I'm* really Monarch)

**********
Date: 29 Jun 1994 16:36:29 -0500
From: c...@indial1.io.com (CWM)
Subject: RAC: LSH reality check

In view of all the bitchin' and moanin' that has come to pass since the
announcement that DC would be rebooting the Legion continuity from the
floppy, it seems like a good time to review a few basics.

The most basic point here . . . this is the exact same thing that DC did
to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and many other established characters.
The word didn't end then, and it won't end now. In fact, all three of
these characters have improved in both story-quality and popularity since
their revival, and there's no reason to expect that the Legion will fare
any worse (even though DC isn't exactly batting 1000 on its character
revamps . . . ).

This step really should have been taken right after Crisis, but at the
time Levitz was Grand Poo-Bah of the Legion, and he just said "no."

People who are complaining about losing that "sense of history" have a
valid point, but they need to review their own recent history. DC has
already TRIED to fix Legion continuity piecemeal. The result was v4. We
all know how well that turned out. The Bierbaums did as good a job
writing their 50 issues as anyone could ask under the circumstances, but
in the end, the weight of the major continuity gaps imposed by Crisis
simply collapsed the whole series.

People who talk about "preserving Legion history" at this point are sort
of like folks who talk about preserving the historic old mansion on the
hill after two wings have already slipped into the river . . . it's just
too late for anything except a total reconstruction.

And look at the bright points. The Legion may be losing a lot of history,
but it's also losing a lot of *baggage* -- silly stuff from the Weisinger
era on that the continuity is going to be much, much happier without.

I can't say I'm in total support of the direction DC is taking.
Specifically, I think that in the '90s, the young-adult Legion is much
more interesting than the teeny-bopper Legion. If it were me, I'd set LSH
in about year 5 of Legion history (2995), and make the first year of
post-0-hour-Legionnaires break down into three issues each of "Legion:
Year 1," "Legion: Year 2" etc., using the Batman:Year X paradigm of
revealing the early continutiy through a specific important story set in
that time-period, rather than a "Secrets of the Legion" historical
documentary approach.

But it's not me. Putting both quibbles and nostalgia aside, the folks at
DC are finally doing the right thing by the Legion. Let's hope they do it
*right*. I rooting for them.

--
Chris W. McCubbin / So I'm sitting there yelling, "Waiter,
C...@IO.COM/CWMF...@AOL.COM / there's a fnord in my soup," for, like, half
Freelance writer/editor / an hour . . . and the bum never even
games/comics/fiction/opinion / LOOKS at me!

**********
Date: 29 Jun 1994 21:39:03 GMT
From: alb...@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH After Zero Hour - Official Word - SPOILERS

In article <2usmlp$t...@news1.digex.net> dbk...@cpcug.digex.net (David Kirby) writes:
> One of us is reading the Earth-2 newsfeed, because the messages
>*I've* been reading indicate that a few people are willing to take
>a wait and see attitude but that most posters (admittedly, all
>long-term fans) *aren't* happy.
[quote nuked--gpm]

Well, I'd rather they try to iron out the Legion's history,
which I think can be done by doing selective search and replaces.
Superboy by Valor doing double duty, and Supergirl by Laurel Gand
[taking some of the burden of Superboy and Valor]. Kill Kid Quantum
and forget about him. Forget ProttyGarth and make S*n Erin a>a woman
always, or b>always a man. The Legionnaires [though I do like 'em]
vanish away in a puff of paradox, keeping the new members like
Dragonmage and Computo [except Catspaw, who can have a 1000 lb anvil
fall on her head ;)]. Kill off both the Time Trapper and Glorith
{and put Mordru out to pasture too} and never mention them again.
They merely say: from this point, history will not have been ever
changed again. [whups, gotta work on those tenses] Do not change another
person's history, and we mean it this time. I would enjoy seeing the
adventures of the grownup Legion. That's what I really liked about the
new Legion; they grew up, though it took a lot longer for them than me.

On the other hand, I do understand how new readers would get totally
confused by the two Legions [be nice to have Earth-2 back, so we could stick
one on One, and the other on Two.]. Additionally, KTM managed to have
the worst of both worlds. They relied heavily on past continuity, but then
they also changed it out from under us, so both sides got lost in what
happened.

I'd be willing to forgive and forget, if they promised not to
retcon any more. But by now, it's too muddled, and could use a reboot.
I'd rather have a mini-series telling the history of the LSH, and then
taking over in the "present", and have a group of kids (Kono, Devlin, the
new 'naires) as the teenage contingent. But I can deal with a total
reboot, if it's well done.
--
Rick Jones Somewhere... somewhere in the world, it's
alb...@bcm.tmc.edu snowing. Just an idle, pointless thought, I have
Systems Support Center those from time to time.
Voice: 713-798-7352 --Alec Swan, Philosopher & PI, Firearm #6

**********
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 22:56:19 GMT
From: ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dwight Williams)
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH & ZH: Why is everyone upset?

In a previous article, gir...@netcom.com () says:
>I really don't see what the problem is. All they have to do is remember to
>plaster the ELSEWORLDS logo across the top of the LSH books until CRISIS III.
>
Well, that's two who figure there _will_ be a Crisis III. You and Dan
Jurgens. What did he say in that WIZARD interview, again? SOmething to the
effect that a decade from now, people will be saying :"Hell, Jurgens
screwed up!"

Well, with the LSH reboot and the "final breakup" of the JSA planned as
consequences, we're already saying it, pal. And you are not the only one
getting the blame for it, Mr. Jurgens. Oh, no.

--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca)
1706 Caminiti Cres., Orleans, ON, Canada K4A 1M1

**********
Date: 30 Jun 1994 06:01:27 GMT
From: Michael Lee <mgl...@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH & ZH: Why is everyone upset?

Dwight Williams, ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA writes:
> SO why do have to have a sliding timeline anymore anyway? Does it
> interfere with Time-Warner cash-cow milking policy?

Because there have been Superman comics for almost sixty years. It's
not unreasonable to expect that Superman will be around sixty years
from now, and they'll want to set it as taking place "now" as well.

That's why they can't do it in real-time. That's why a comics
universe needs a reboot every now and again. Admittedly, DC
has to do this one because they allowed to many retcons post-crisis
in an unorganized fashion, but it has to happen time and again.

The question is, when will they have to reboot the Marvel Universe? :-)
They'll have to someday, because more than a few characters have
WWII ties of their own, or to the cold war, or to whatever.

----
Michael G. P. Lee "I have been here many times before
mich...@cs.wisc.edu In a life I used to live...."
mgl...@students.wisc.edu Marillion - Made Again, Brave
<A HREF="http://coyote.cs.wisc.edu:1213/">My home page</A>

**********
Date: 1 Jul 1994 11:41:19 -0400
From: je...@panix.com (Jonathan I. Ezor)
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH the mourning after Zero Hour

Christopher L. Tumber <aa...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>Mean Mister Mustard writes:
[quote nuked--gpm]
>>Is hatred of v4 so intense that people can only permit themselves to
>>compliment (or... gasp.. LIKE) it by attributing all of its success to
>>Waid? And what will happen when something distasteful happens in one of
>>his books? "Oh, that must've been McCraw's doing..."
>
>So, let me get this straight. You *LIKE* V4, despite the fact that it's
>been widely criticized for being contrary to the spirit of the classic
>Legion and for seriously mucking about with Legion history (retcons,
>retcons, retcons). Not to mention being a seperate entity from
>Adventure/V2/V3 (five years removed). And yet you're slamming Wade for
>doing ESSENTIALLY the same thing (wiping out Legion history, changing
>direction) before he's even done it.
>
>Isn't this a little... odd?

Hold it. First of all, what do you define as "classic Legion"?
Flight belts? Tasmia Mallor in white makeup in 20th C. Smallville?
Legionnaires with brand-spanking-new telepathic plugs flying around in
Starship Enterprise clones? Earthwar? The Battle at the End of Time?
Or (egads!) Omen and the Prophet? Personally, I thought that what KTM
did with v4 was ambitious, challenging to read (in a good way--I read
most comics in under 5 minutes), and (with a few odd retcons
notwithstanding) quite true to the general spirit of the "classic
Legion," which I define as taking people and adding to their
personalities, giving them pasts, presents and possibilities for the
future. *Nowhere* (except after DC editorial fiat) did anyone say,
"Hey, readers, none of the history you remember ever happened. None
of it. But *keep* buying the book, won't you? And tell your
friends." in an Omnicom message. There is a *stark* difference
between altering certain past events or reexplaining them (LSH v.4,
recent years of Batman) and completely erasing them in the interest of
sales (Superman, Wonder Woman). My opinion is that the Legion as it
now stands, even given the continuity gaffs and goofs, is not nearly
as far gone as Superman and Wonder Woman were when they were rebooted
(moves which I approve of). Although my comics store owner says
Legion isn't selling, so maybe it's necessary from DC's perspective.
Personally, I think I'd rather see Legion cancelled than rebooted
entirely. I'd like to add a vote (much difference it'll make) for
letting the #0 issues and the next few be a sort of road map to
post-Zero Hour Legion continuity, fast forwarding to an adult Legion
basically where we are now. But it ain't gonna happen. Oh well.

>In other words, how can anyone open minded enough to let KTM or McCraw do
>their stuff pre-judge Wade so harshly?

{Jonathan "not pre-judging Wade's talent or ideas, just the general
concept" Ezor}
--
Jonathan I. Ezor
Internet: je...@panix.com

**********
Date: 1 Jul 94 13:27:18 CDT
From: dgl...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH the mourning after Zero Hour

In article <1994Jul1...@woods.uml.edu>, gar...@woods.uml.edu writes:
> Now, a side question: I got Legioniers #16, and it seams that one of
> the Legioniers has changed into Star Boy. Who is suppose to be in
> Legioniers, so I'll know when someone's changed.

Starboy and Dreamgirl were not active members (I think they were in the subs)
at the time the LSH was captured and had gene samples taken. I'm pretty sure it
was Adventure #350 (just before the Fatal Five/Suneater/death of Ferro Lad
story).

They reappeared in Legionnaires #16 as proof that the timestream was going
crazy. Originally, I'd thought that they were using the white flashes to throw
a bunch of cards up in the air and have Rokk Krinn (Cos Sr.) pick and choose
what was what from his safe harbor in that library.

But we now know that he's just going to whip out a Zippo and burn baby burn.

All of these things that you are seeing that is confusing the hell out of you
(so and so disappeared, Superboy's back, Sunboy instead of Inferno, etc.) are
there to do just that. Considering the foregone conclusion, THEY ARE COMPLETELY
IRRELEVANT <wiping away a tear>. In fact, you need not bother to read the rest
of End of an Era, unless you are curious to see what event happens that reboots
the LSH into LSH-lite.

I'm still pissed that it's happening, but at least no one will have the
opportunity to retcon away the complex and intriguing world of V4. It will end,
but except for the ridiculous costumes and code names of the last six issues,
it will end in tact.

-Doug

ps Later I'll be coming up with a list of what happened in the Five Year Gap
and the following year, for those who are curious but were looking for a place
to jump in. But I probably won't touch the pocket universe mess except to
mention that Valor and Laurel are around. Actually, I'll just do a character by
character summary based on the existence of Glorith (ie. there was a conspiracy
to avenge the destruction of Daxam).

**********
Date: 1 Jul 1994 13:50:31 -0400
From: arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: RAC: Re: "Too confusing for new readers"

Mean Mister Mustard <ma...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
[quote nuked--gpm]
>Blowing up the Earth may not be "reversible," but the very latest issue of
>Valor found a way around that. The Legion clones? Kill the little rugrats
>(possible exceptions for Lyle, Andrew, etc.).

No change is _literally_ irreversible. However, some things are hard to
reverse. Reversing everything introduced in V4 would have taken at least a
year at normal publication rates (though 4 months or so if you use
Legionnaires, Valor, and LSH all at once), and confused lots of people.

I do think that despite all of this, reversing the changes would be a better
idea than the complete rewrite we're getting. But it would be messy, and the
fact that it's messy enough to make the reboot look attractive is something
T&M are definitely responsible for.

>And a lot worse than anything TMK did -- at least their
>retcons were always a new way of looking at old stories (a la Moore saying
>Swampy is a plant who only *thinks* he's Alec Holland), and didn't invali-
>date huge swaths of stories.

Well, it does depend on what you mean by invalidation. Over at Marvel, making
Jean Grey not really be Phoenix didn't _invalidate_ stories in the sense of
saying they didn't happen, but it did make the stories pointless, just like
the Garth/Proty and Shvaughn retcons did.
--
Ken Arromdee (email: arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
ObYouKnowWho Bait: Stuffed Turkey with Gravy and Mashed Potatoes

"You, a Decider?" --Romana "I decided not to." --The Doctor

**********
Date: 1 Jul 1994 00:24:11 -0400
From: da...@telerama.lm.com
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH Zero Hour Fix

Bruce Baugh <bru...@teleport.com>:
>One of his points was that the old Legion can't be saved. The continuity is
>so thoroughly thrashed that a sensible pattern can no longer be assembled...

I think the writers made a bad mistake when, in a petulant over-reaction
to editorial dictate, they derailed their storyline in order to reboot
their universe. What they should have done was continue telling their
story, leaving out elements which contradicted new Superman continuity
(it might have sufficed, for instance, to use Mon-El, but make no mention
of his connection to Superboy, or of the origin of his name), and worrying
about patches later. To give another example, the solution to Superboy
no longer being the Legion's inspiration was simply to continue the story
without *mentioning* how the Legion got its start yet.

The same applies now. Yes, Legion continuity has been badly trashed, but
this doesn't mean that good stories can't be written with the raw materials
that come to hand. Conversely, correcting all the accumulated inconsistencies
isn't going to compensate for bad writing. Inconsistencies? Pick and choose.

-----
Dani Zweig
da...@netcom.com da...@telerama.lm.com

'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
Go alike, yet each believes his own
--Alexander Pope


**********
Date: 1 Jul 94 01:34:24 -0300
From: iba...@ac.dal.ca
Subject: RAC: New Start to LSH-I've had it DC!

This whole deal about simplifying Legion history really burns me. Not that
I don't think it is in need of some consistency, but come on. THis bit
about new readers being easily confused - what do you expect -they're new
readers!

If I understand DC policy, anytime a series becomes somewhat complex, it's
time to start over again. Everyone was a new reader at some point. Although
the Legion's history and timeline is uncertain, there is definitely enough
coherence to keep it going without a total reset. For fuck sake - this Is
a COMIC! Simply getting some real editorial control to reign in the
excessive retconning would be enough. And is it all really that complicated?
I love the arguement that the multiple earths post crisis caused alot of
confusion - utter crap. Hey, if we can't master that concept (and I never
met anyone reading comics who couldn't), we shouldn't even be touching a
computer!

The only positive thing about this is that my steadily declining number
of tiltles collected will increase my savings, 'cause if the LSH gets
a total reboot, I'm gone.

--
Jamie Lauchlan
_ ___
/ `-' ( III
|( II ||||||||||||||[***] 1979 MusicMan Stingray
\_.-.__( l Thanks Leo (R.I.P.)

"BASS IS SOME SERIOUS SHIT" - Bill Laswell

**********
Date: 3 Jul 1994 14:04:03 -0400
From: my...@aol.com (Myke 4)
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH the mourning after Zero Hour

I live for the Legion and loved V.4, but you know, I'm not into this
mourning thing. I'm completely excited to move on. I had difficulty
dealing with the prospect of losing 30 years of continuity, but lets
be real. In the direction it was heading, v.4's cancellation was only
a matter of time. Restoring the Science Police and Legion to former
glory was not only not a logical direction, it's not very exciting.
I look forward to reading new stories about people we know, and
yet may not know completely. I'm more comforted knowing that a reboot
will keep the Legion around for decades yet to come.

**********
Date: 4 Jul 1994 11:41:23 -0500
From: c...@indial1.io.com (CWM)
Subject: RAC: Re: LSH reality check

Mean Mister Mustard <ma...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
[quote nuked--gpm]
>Second, I'd be pretty happy if LSH did become the next Superman or Wonder
>Woman... but what if it becomes the next Hawkworld or Rip Hunter or
>Armageddon 2001?

Hey, the original Hawkworld limited series was a damn fine comic. I'm not
going to try to argue for the whole ongoing retcon, tho, since I didn't
follow the Hawk book after the original series ended.

>And third, why is it necessary to erase everything in LSH history? The
>number of *successful* reworkings that have stayed within continuity
>(Teen Titans, Swamp Thing, New X-Men, Flash, Justice League, Fantastic Four,
>etc.) vastly outnumbers the successful ones that have blown it all up and
>started from the ground.

That's what vol. 4 was supposed to do. It didn't work.

Why? Well, first of all, because of Superboy and Supergirl. When they
vanished, Legion continuity was left irreparably crippled. The Lar/Laural
dodge was impressive in its scope, but it left too many little cracks
around the edges.

Also, the very history-consciousness of Legion fans that everybody's been
moaning about, perversely works against this kind of "passive ret-con."
People want to perserve Legion history yet take out all the goofy stuff,
and it can't be done. It's easy to forget about "Ace the Bat-Dog," for
example, but Legion history is different. People actually remember,
fondly, Urthlo and his hate-tapes or the Super Moby-Dick of Space. In
terms of importance to the continuity, there are just to many absurdities
in the community that are "multi-chromatic kryptonite" and too few that
are "Ace the Bat-Dog."

>>And look at the bright points. The Legion may be losing a lot of history,
>>but it's also losing a lot of *baggage* --
>It's already lost them. How often does anyone actually *refer* to the
>"Super Moby Dick of Space"
[quote nuked--gpm]

But it hasn't REALLY lost them . . . it's just swept them under the rug.
You mention the Super Moby-Dick story . . . .is it really gone? If so,
how did Garth lose his arm? Or didn't Garth ever lose his arm? Most
everyone will agree that Garth's metal arm was one of the *good* things
about early Legion history that should be preserved, but you can't
preserve it unless you're either willing to acknowledge the existance of
truculent space-whales, or arbitarily monkey with the continuity to make
the whale something else.

The only really honest and effective way to deal with this kind of
problem is to reboot. That way you can keep the good stuff (Garth dealing
with the loss of a limb) while detaching it from the goofy stuff (giant
green space-whale).

>>But it's not me. Putting both quibbles and nostalgia aside, the folks at
>>DC are finally doing the right thing by the Legion. Let's hope they do it
>>*right*.
>
>Oh, they've got a track record which should indicate exactly how well this
>will turn out...

That's why I remain firmly optomistic.

--
Chris W. McCubbin / So I'm sitting there yelling, "Waiter,
C...@IO.COM/CWMF...@AOL.COM / there's a fnord in my soup," for, like, half
Freelance writer/editor / an hour . . . and the bum never even
games/comics/fiction/opinion / LOOKS at me!

**********

--
"For a conversation like this, we coulda kept Ma on life support."
--Duffy Bergman (Gene Wilder), "Funny about Love"

elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)

Douglas Limmer

unread,
Apr 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/2/96
to
mor...@fnalv.fnal.gov (Winged Elmo of Samothrace) wrote:

>Pursuant to some research I was consulted on for the rac.dc.u FAQ, Jerry
>Franke and I seem to have found the origin of "reboot" in its current
>meaning of "start continuity over again". I keep an archive of LSH-related
>posts from Usenet, which started 14 Jun 94. There is no use of the string
>"reboot" in the archive prior to 29 Jun 94; after that, the term receives
>nearly daily usage, as it continues to do so today. It really is remarkable
>exactly how fast the term came into common usage.

[snip]


>So, I think, congratulations are in order to Jerry Franke, who coined the
>term. Good work, Jerry!

I dunno. It seemed to crop up from several people at about the same
time. Given the propagation times of Usenet, I'm not sure it would
be proper, in this case, to give credit to just one person.

[This is also a test of posting from Free Agent. Did it work?]

Doug L.

Douglas Limmer -- lim...@math.orst.edu


Todd VerBeek, GWM

unread,
Apr 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/9/96
to
>mor...@fnalv.fnal.gov (Winged Elmo of Samothrace) wrote:
>
>>Pursuant to some research I was consulted on for the rac.dc.u FAQ, Jerry
>>Franke and I seem to have found the origin of "reboot" in its current
>>meaning of "start continuity over again". I keep an archive of LSH-related
>>posts from Usenet, which started 14 Jun 94. There is no use of the string
>>"reboot" in the archive prior to 29 Jun 94; after that, the term receives
>>nearly daily usage, as it continues to do so today. It really is remarkable
>>exactly how fast the term came into common usage.
>[snip]

>>So, I think, congratulations are in order to Jerry Franke, who coined the
>>term. Good work, Jerry!

My friend Douglas Limmer said:
>I dunno. It seemed to crop up from several people at about the same
>time. Given the propagation times of Usenet, I'm not sure it would
>be proper, in this case, to give credit to just one person.

No diminishment of Jerry intended, but I agree. It's kind of like giving
Copernicus all the credit for the solar-centric model when other
astronomers came up with the same idea independently, around the same time.

>[This is also a test of posting from Free Agent. Did it work?]

[Yes. It's a good program. And the commercial version is well worth the
$29 price, if you have it.]

Cheers, Todd

Andrew A. Apold

unread,
Apr 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/10/96
to
Andrew glanced up from his omnicon when he heard someone using Todd VerBeek, GWM's account say:
>

>No diminishment of Jerry intended, but I agree. It's kind of like giving
>Copernicus all the credit for the solar-centric model when other
>astronomers came up with the same idea independently, around the same time.

Not to mention some astronomers who came up with the idea centuries before
COpernicus did.

--
Andrew Apold (mor...@magg.net)
/**********************************************/
/ C/C++, Legion, Blue Oyster Cult, Pink Floyd /
/ Hawkwind, Amtgard, Vikings, and S.A. Spurs /
/**********************************************/
"I was corrupt BEFORE I had power!"
-Random


Jerry L Franke

unread,
Apr 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/10/96
to
Todd VerBeek, GWM (ver...@hope.edu) wrote:

> My friend Douglas Limmer said:
> >I dunno. It seemed to crop up from several people at about the same
> >time. Given the propagation times of Usenet, I'm not sure it would
> >be proper, in this case, to give credit to just one person.

> No diminishment of Jerry intended, but I agree. It's kind of like giving


> Copernicus all the credit for the solar-centric model when other
> astronomers came up with the same idea independently, around the same time.

Since my name's being bandied about here, I guess I should speak up with the
story behind the story:

I was (and, unfortunately, still am) working on the racdu FAQ alongside
Elayne and Chris Bird, and decided to add "reboot" to the FAQ since the
retcon v. reboot debate had started over in racdu. The FAQ entry for retcon
included an origin for the term, so I thought it would be nice to include a
comics-related origin for the use of reboot.

The problem: I remembered using the term with respect to comics, but I
couldn't remember reading it anywhere before in that context. A quick jaunt
to dejanews gave no results because they haven't gone back that far yet, so
I turned to my next best resource, veteran net friends like Mike Chary and
Greg, for their recollections. Mike first remembered it being used by
Christopher, but couldn't say for sure. He pointed out that it is a logical
term for the concept and could have been thought up independently by lots of
people. That was good enough for me, and I was going to use that
explanation in the FAQ.

Elmo then found the time to go back through his archives looking for use of
the term. He apparently posted his results the same time he mailed me. I
thank Elmo for his time and effort in the search. I thought the P.R. was
nice at the time, too. However, since the second mention of reboot in this
context occured only a handful of hours after my post, I can't think to lay
claim to originating its use -- at best, I *might* claim to have been the
fastest on the trigger for its use, but I can only be sure of that in
relation to the Legion reboot (if someone used it before the Legion reboot,
it is perhaps lost to time).

I had intended to be quiet in the hopes that this thread would just go away
(it's a bit embarrassing to have someone's post begin "No diminishment of
Jerry intended," after all), but since I just found a new message on the
topic waiting for me again today, I thought I'd set the record straight. I
have no wish to be Copernicus.

When the FAQ eventually makes its way out, I hope the entry for reboot will
be satisfactory to everyone.

--

Jerry L. Franke fra...@cs.indiana.edu
Computer Science Dept. Indiana University
formerly from Florida State University http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~franke

Elayne Wechsler-Chaput

unread,
Apr 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/11/96
to
Jerry L Franke (fra...@ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

: I was (and, unfortunately, still am) working on the racdu FAQ alongside
: Elayne and Chris Bird...

: When the FAQ eventually makes its way out...

=sigh=

I can take a hint. I'll try to get my part of the FAQ done this weekend.

- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "I couldn't get you to believe my name ##
was Mr. and Mrs. John Smith, could I?" _##_

Jerry L Franke

unread,
Apr 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/11/96
to
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput (fire...@panix.com) wrote:
> Jerry L Franke (fra...@ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

> : I was (and, unfortunately, still am) working on the racdu FAQ alongside
> : Elayne and Chris Bird...

Just realized this could be read the wrong way. I mean that it's
unfortunate that I'm still working on the FAQ (as in not having my part
done), not that it's unfortunate to work with Elayne and Chris!

> : When the FAQ eventually makes its way out...

> =sigh=

> I can take a hint. I'll try to get my part of the FAQ done this weekend.

That was definitely not a hint. Just a lamentation of my own
too-busy-beyond-description-ness. :-(

Elayne Wechsler-Chaput

unread,
Apr 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/11/96
to
Jerry L Franke (fra...@ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: Elayne Wechsler-Chaput (fire...@panix.com) wrote:
: > Jerry L Franke (fra...@ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

: > : I was (and, unfortunately, still am) working on the racdu FAQ alongside
: > : Elayne and Chris Bird...

: Just realized this could be read the wrong way.

Ooh baby baby!

Oh, you meant *that* wrong way. See, *I* took it from the word
"alongside" and, well, you know how MY mind works...

: > : When the FAQ eventually makes its way out...

: > =sigh=

: > I can take a hint. I'll try to get my part of the FAQ done this weekend.

: That was definitely not a hint. Just a lamentation of my own
: too-busy-beyond-description-ness. :-(

Already started on my part of the FAQ. About five paragraphs done. But,
of course, this week's reviews take precedence... and the lovely and
talented Leah Adezio is my houseguest this weekend, so I don't know that
I'll get to everything until Sunday...

Christopher Bird

unread,
Apr 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/13/96
to
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput (fire...@panix.com) wrote:

> : > : I was (and, unfortunately, still am) working on the racdu FAQ alongside
> : > : Elayne and Chris Bird...

> : Just realized this could be read the wrong way.

> Ooh baby baby!

> Oh, you meant *that* wrong way. See, *I* took it from the word
> "alongside" and, well, you know how MY mind works...

Stop it, Elayne. Right now. :)

(As for me? I'm hacking away at it in between essays and exams and
everything else. I promise, it'll be done before May 6th.)

----------- The Church of Cthulhu: http://chat.carleton.ca/~cbird-----------
"Does Barbie come with Ken?"
"Barbie comes with GI Joe. She fakes it with Ken." --Anon.
CTHULHU FOR PRESIDENT IN 1996- "Why Settle For The Lesser Evil?"


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