What book are you reading right now?
Tom
H. L. Mencken's _Newspaper Days._ The account of the great Baltimore
fire is as good as ever.
Tom Parsons
--
--
t...@panix.com | Life is not so rich in sources of pleasure
| that one can afford to neglect any of them.
http://www.panix.com/~twp | --Linus Pauling
Casse Pied
Aaron Gross
Casse Pied <nospam...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> Blacker Than A Thousand Midnights Susan Straight
"The Allegro Common Lisp User's Guide", by the folks at Franz, Inc.
Aaron
cosmic...@webtv.net
The Presence by John Saul.
Jim Farley
I'm reading the last (4th) of Harry Turtledove's alternate history epic
"World War: Striking the Balance" it tell the story of an Alien
invasion of Earth during WW2 & the Allies & Axis powers must then unite
to fight the common enemy.
< J >
"Numquam Immoderatio Satis Est !"
Ted Samsel
THE MEMOIRS OF MANUEL NORIEGA: AMERICA'S PRISONER
Noriega & Eisener(?)
An eye opener. If merely one tenth of this is true, doom is nigh.
(;-)
But I've been saying that since 1960-something...(;-)
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net
"do the boogie woogie in the South American way"
Rhumba Boogie- Hank Snow (1955)
es
I started E. Annie Proulx's "The Shipping News". Bottom line: I NEVER
should have started something so perfectly written a week before
beginning my own fiction writing class!
I absolutely love it. The characters stand out as individuals, yet
blend together well with the setting (Newfoundland). The story itself
is interesting and smoothly flows along. I've never read a book where
the author allows the reader to see so deeply into the character's
mind with clarity and uses so few words to form the impression.
Ahhh, back to the book...
es
FIDO
Nothing right now as I am putting a lot of energy into
refitting *ZEPHYR*. I have returned a mess of books to
Green, but the two left on my bedside table are *SARNIA
CHERIE* and *ULYSSES*. Perhaps they are autumn to winter
books. I did get the compleat Plays of Gilbert & Sullivan
in the Norton trade paperback edition and, glories, it has
a bunch of illustrations by Gilbert himself. Their Savoy
theatre has just been refurnished and is now back to what
is was -- rather magnificent. I saw Stoppard there when last
in London. No, not Stoppard, that johnnie who generally
writes about East Coast resorts; *A CHORUS OF DISAPPROVAL*
comes to mind. However, one of the good folk on a Silicon
Investor chat-room misquoted the "messing about" but from
Kenneth Grahame's *WIND IN THE WILLOWS*, and perhaps I shall
read that before summer is altogether out.
I wonder if the Savoy Grill is as fine as it was in its
heyday? Anyone know?
FIDO
Mary Daniels Brown
"Kiss the Girls" by James Patterson (book on tape in the car) and "A
Yellow Raft in Blue Water" by Michael Dorris.
Quite a combination, no?
Mary D. Brown http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4148/
______
"A room without books is like a body without a soul."
--Cicero
FIDO
es writes:
Its been some time since Awesome Annie gave us a treat; do we know
when her next offering is out?
E Annie Proulx
I do love youlx
FIDO
lee
'Painter of our Time' - John Berger: why does no-one ever mention him? Is he
*that* poor?
'Postmodern Condition' - Lyotard
'Jazz' - Toni Morrison
'Black Holes' - can't remember the name, but it's from the early '70s, and seems
entertaining for that. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone, for the same reason.
Why do you ask?
Lee.
jover...@geisinger.edu
Lonesome Dove. And I am...1) getting NO sleep 2) annoying the heck out
of my husband ( as I must constantly read him parts aloud)
3)considering quitting my job and becoming a cowperson (are there any
left or am I too late?) Kathy
Jennifer Rebecca Larson
I'm reading A.S.Byatt's -Still Life-. About 30 pages in, and so far so
good, lots going on, good characters. I read -Possession- about two weeks
ago and -Babel Tower- two weeks before that. I HAVE to stop reading Byatt
before I read ALL her books and have nothing to look forward to in the
future! (Like I've done with Anne Rice's supernatural books, reading them
all in one summer so now I wait for the fall and her new book to come each
year.)
jennifer
jrla...@csd.uwm.edu
peter krynicki
The problem is, IMO, he never before or afterwards wrote anything 1/2
as good as this. In an interview he swears that everything in the book
was told to him by his grandfather and so he considers it as true.
UVA UVAM VIVENDO VARIA FIT.
Pjk
John Hutchins
Iris Murdoch's _The Sea, The Sea_.
And, by the time I'm done, the copy of Maynard Bray's _Building the
Haven 12 1/2_, which I ordered the other day, will surely have
arrived. Then, I'll read that and, perhaps, build what the caption
describes as "Joel White's centerboard redesign of the Herreshoff 12
1/2."
And sail, if not on the sea, the sea, then at least on the reservoir,
the reservoir. Maybe I'll even drive up to Lake Michigan, Lake
Michigan.
___________________________________________________
"In food and drink, as in many (not all) other matters, simple joys
are best , as any intelligent self-lover knows. Sidney Ashe once
offered to initiate me into the pleasures of vintage wine. I refused
with scorn. Sidney hates ordinary wine and is unhappy unless he is
drinking some expensive stuff with a date on it. Why wantonly destroy
one's palate for cheap wine?" Charles Arrowby in the Iris Murdoch
mentioned above.
Boom-Boom
Jennifer wrote:
>
> ...consider your heart.
I am:
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by
Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this? I seem to remember there were some
critiques of Jaynes' theories some years ago. Does anyone remember
authors or titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
battles for the soul.
Boom-Boom
Gansevrt
"Radical Son," by David Horowitz
- Thomas Gansevoort
Want to read a good book? Please visit my website:
http://members.aol.com/Gansevrt
Richard Harter
Theories of theories of mind.
The adjectives, turgid and boring, spring to mind. Academic obfuscation
will serve as well. It is always a source of wonder to me that an
academic can take the most interesting of subjects, strip it of all vital
juices, and then enbalm it in literary formaldehyde.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net, The Concord Research Institute
URL = http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, phone = 1-508-369-3911
There is no better or more profound theory of ethics than that of
Mammy Yokum - "Good is better than evil because it is nicer."
Bruce McGuffin
John LeCarre: A Tailor Of Panama (got this yesterday from the library, and
its a short term loan, so I won't read anything else till its done)
Partick O'Brian: The Mauritious Command (will finish after the tailor)
The rest I dip into as the mood takes me:
I-forget-the-authors: Sutton Hoo (picked it up at a library discard
sale, quite a find, great pictures)
Saki: Complete Short Stories
Don Marquis(sp?): Archy and Mehetibel (sp?)
Boom-Boom
Jeff Inman wrote:
>
> and...@indiana.edu writes:
>
> >The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by
> >Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this? I seem to remember there were some
> >critiques of Jaynes' theories some years ago. Does anyone remember
> >authors or titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
> >battles for the soul.
>
> I am surprised that a girl with such an original consciousness as
> yours hasn't read this, yet. But great stuff, you're right. Keep
> that helmet on, though -- some anthropological type is bound to start
> lobbing dismissive tirades.
>
> --
> Warning: do not pet the Bison!
ooh goodie, I wonder if it will be one of my favourite anthropological
types - the ones with the knuckles not quite dragging the floor, of
course. Actually, the first thing I did, after rubbing my tiny hands in
glee and opening it right in the middle, was to look in the index to see
if there was any mention of the Book of Job. There wasn't, but luckily
the wole book is about the BoJ and similar folk-tales. Though Jeff is
only teasing me into admitting that I find it improbable that I have an
original consciousness, given Jayes' persuasive thesis that
consciousness itself followed a n original manner of operating the brain
which I, and many poets I suspect, would be likely to claim is still in
regular, though not permanent day-to-day use in some fields of human
endeavour. Though of course the relationships Jaynes explores are often
misunderstood, and therefore argued vehemently, among all sorts of
artists, anthropologists included. Come in Moggin!
Boom-Boom
SubGenius
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Bruce McGuffin (mcgu...@ll.mit.edu) wrote:
: Partick O'Brian: The Mauritious Command (will finish after the tailor)
+---------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
Mauritius.
- -Occasionally Helpful St SubG
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Misho Imblum
1) A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, by Ursula LeGuin
2) The Essential Jung, edited by Anthony Storr
3) The Pinball Effect, by James Burke
Misho
Casse Pied
Fiona Webster wrote:
>
> _Bunker Man_ by Duncan McLean, which is full of entertaining
> Scottish expressions, like "pishing in the lavvy" and "skiving off."
> Nice and creepy so far: I hope it turns out to be a horror novel.
>
> _Our Vampires, Ourselves_ by Nina Auerbach. I'm having a
> hard time understanding why all the reviews I read were so negative.
> She seems to have done her reading, and her arguments make
> a fair amount of sense.
>
> _Decoding Your Dreams_ by Robert Langs--because I have to
> teach a class on dreams to a lay audience. Robert Langs
> is a writer whose psychoanalytic texts I have admired, and
> this purports to be a popular "how to" book.
>
> --Fiona
Fiona,
You like 'scary books'? Have you read A Philosophical Investigation?
Philip Kerr. Creepy and technical! D.
SAR
"The Family Moskat" (re-reading it for the umpteenth time) - THE finest
book ever written by I. B. Singer.
"The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer
"Byzantine Journey" by John Ash
"Short Season" by Jerry Klinkowitz - a VERY true-to-life depiction of
life in the Minor Leagues (fiction, but believe me, VERY true to life).
******************************************************
"Life is far, FAR too long not to be yourself and enjoy it!" -
Piotrewka Naladka
Fiona Webster
Jeff Inman
Hnikar
The Niebelungenlied.
"We have been told in ancient tales many marvels of famous heroes, of
mighty toil, joys, and high festivities, of weeping and wailing, and the
fighting of bold warriors- such things you can now hear wonders
unending!"
Hnikar
Hnikar's Folkish Asatru Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5056/index.html (with the links
that matter!)
Adrian Riskin
>
I just finished Nicholas Nickleby. Dickens drives me crazy because
he doesn't have the courage to follow his genius to the end...but I love
hime anyway...
--
Adrian Riskin
ari...@mps.org
http://mps.org/~ariskin
Jim Hartley
Richard Harter (c...@tiac.net) wrote:
> It is always a source of wonder to me that an
> academic can take the most interesting of subjects, strip it of all vital
> juices, and then enbalm it in literary formaldehyde.
No need to wonder. It is actually a relatively simple skill, but one that
takes a few years to master. Fortunately the academic trade schools are
going strong, so we need not worry that the skill will die out like those
used in so many other useful trades of yesteryear.
As for books [can we still mention books here in rec.arts.paschal?], of
the tomes I am presently perusing: West, _The Clowns of God_ is the worst
of the lot--the book was lent to me by my mother and it's horrid, but
being the dutiful son, I am forcing my way through it; Brunner and
Meltzer's latest book [and presumably their last, since Brunner is now
deceased] is the best of the lot, but since it is on monetary theory, I am
not sure it is of general interest in these parts; _The Book of Malachi_
has induced the most thought of late; and, finally, _Cheaper by the Dozen_
is the most lightweight but still engaging. The rest of the books merit
no special notation.
Just to be safe:
The Mandatory Paschal Reference: Does anyone else always think "Pascal"
when seeing "Paschal"? I find it annoying since there seems to be little
similarity between the two.
--
Jim Hartley
jhar...@mtholyoke.edu
ther...@vegtabl.com
Mostly, I'm not reading _God Stalk_ by P.C. Hodgell, a fun
and entertaining fantasy. I picked it as due to people claiming
it as a 'cult classic' which is a phrase I think I'll never
understand. Instead, I've been reading far too much usenet,
clarinet news of the parts of the world generally ignored by
the local press, rab, which has swelled in a manner which tells
me school must have started somewhere, striving to tame my
email inbox of the hordes who would fight-censorship, eliminate
or encourage remailers around the net, and pondering holes in
majordomo.
And, travelling to the planets of our solar system.
Someone has turned an onion into a nice model of Saturn and
impaled it on the stand; Pluto is out where on one side of the
river we smell the sewage treatment plant, and on the other
the local Catholic highschool is fighting the city over the
long-planned extension of the north bank bikepath.
And! Tomorrow a roll up mainstreet west coast to Powell's!
veg
ther...@vegtabl.com
Boom-Boom <and...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by
>Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this? I seem to remember there were some
>critiques of Jaynes' theories some years ago. Does anyone remember
>authors or titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
>battles for the soul.
And then there's a fictional take on the subject by A.A. Attanasio,
_The Hunting of the Ghost Dancer_, except here it's that poor cousin
that's been disowned recently by various geneticists (?) the
Neanderthal who experiences the bicameral mind, and is being hunted
by those, perhaps, anthropologists, the Cro-Magnom.
veg
Robert Teeter
_Exodus and REvolution_ by Michael Walzer. It's about how
the Exodus story has been used to justify and explain revolutionary
movements, including Cromwell, the American Revolution, and Marx
and Lenin. (The French Revolution is conspicuously -- nearly --
absent; Walzer says that's because the fraternite avoided religious
symbolism.)
--
Bob Teeter (rte...@netcom.com) | http://www.wco.com/~rteeter/
"On the Internet, we are not all wise children" -- E. G.-M.
"Government may not reduce the adult population to only what is fit for
children" -- U.S. Supreme Court, Reno v. ACLU, June 26, 1997
Meg Worley
Peter K writes of *Lonesome Dove*:
>The problem is, IMO, he never before or afterwards wrote anything 1/2
>as good as this. In an interview he swears that everything in the book
>was told to him by his grandfather and so he considers it as true.
Not true. His first (I think) novel, *Horseman Ride By* (or
is it "Pass"?) was excellent. Word was, back in the book biz
in Texas, that when *Last Picture Show* was well-received, LM
became embittered and bragged about having discovered the
formula to crank out effortless popular books.
Rage away,
meg
--
m...@steam.stanford.edu Comparatively Literate
Michael Wade
In article <rteeterE...@netcom.com>, Robert Teeter
<rte...@netcom.com> writes
> _Exodus and REvolution_ by Michael Walzer. It's about how
>the Exodus story has been used to justify and explain revolutionary
>movements, including Cromwell, the American Revolution, and Marx
>and Lenin. (The French Revolution is conspicuously -- nearly --
>absent; Walzer says that's because the fraternite avoided religious
>symbolism.)
>
>
It's a while since I read it, but there's a book called (I recall) _In
Pursuit of the Millenium_, by Norman Cohn, which is very good and very
interesting, though dealing more with post Reformation millenarianism.
Another fine book covering that era is _The Cheese and the Worms_ by
Carlo Ginsberg, not about revolutionary movements, but about one man's
wonderful account of the world.
Encouraged by a recent discussion here, I've just finished Waugh's _Men
at Arms_ and just started _Officers and Gentlemen_. Anyone any thoughts
on these? I also had a squint at James Cameron's _Point of Departure_
last night. Why? - because Cameron was an eminent British reporter who
visited Schweitzer in the Gabon and wrote a very interesting essay about
the experience.
On the desk here at work is _Omai: Noble Savage_ by Michael Alexander,
which ain't up to much. I have also acquired the silliest book of all
time _The Mark of the Scots_ by Duncan A Bruce, which sets out to prove
that anyone ever who has attained greatness in the world had Scottish
blood pumping through his veins.
--
Michael Wade
By the Book
Fiona Webster <f...@DELETETHISoceanstar.com> wrote in article
<5v4eub$mq1$2...@news.smart.net>...
> _Decoding Your Dreams_ by Robert Langs
>
Sounds like some deconstruction thing.
Jon
Ted Samsel
Meg Worley <m...@Steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
: Peter K writes of *Lonesome Dove*:
: >The problem is, IMO, he never before or afterwards wrote anything 1/2
: >as good as this. In an interview he swears that everything in the book
: >was told to him by his grandfather and so he considers it as true.
: Not true. His first (I think) novel, *Horseman Ride By* (or
: is it "Pass"?) was excellent. Word was, back in the book biz
: in Texas, that when *Last Picture Show* was well-received, LM
: became embittered and bragged about having discovered the
: formula to crank out effortless popular books.
And before the flick THE LAST PICTURE SHOW came out, he'd wear a sweat
shirt around Rice U in Houston with the words MINOR REGIONAL AUTHOR on
it. Oh, to be so embittered by fame.
And his son, James (now that he's gotten away from John Cougar Melon-
head) is writing some killer songs, even better than the earlier ones.
On his latest recording on Sugar Hill (produced by Lubbock's own Lloyd
Maines) he even covers Kinky Friedman's WILDMAN FROM BORNEO.
ObBooks: Redmond O'Hanlon's travel book on Borneo...
THE SEA DYAKS by ????
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net
"do the boogie woogie in the South American way"
Rhumba Boogie- Hank Snow (1955)
A. Young
_HMS Surprise_ by Patrick O'Brian for fun (near the beginning of a
re-read of the magnum opus!)
_Canterbury Cathedral Priory_ by RAL Smith for work
The Book of Acts for church
--
Dr Abigail Ann Young, Records of Early English Drama| young@chass.|
Victoria College, University of Toronto | utoronto.ca |
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~reed/reed.html | REED's Home Page |
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~reed/stage.html|Our New Theatre Resource Page |
battis4
Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher, PhD.
peter krynicki
Meg Worley wrote:
>
> Peter K writes of *Lonesome Dove*:
> >The problem is, IMO, he never before or afterwards wrote anything 1/2
> >as good as this. In an interview he swears that everything in the book
> >was told to him by his grandfather and so he considers it as true.
>
> Not true. His first (I think) novel, *Horseman Ride By* (or
> is it "Pass"?) was excellent. Word was, back in the book biz
> in Texas, that when *Last Picture Show* was well-received, LM
> became embittered and bragged about having discovered the
> formula to crank out effortless popular books.
>
Nothing before of after had the range of characters who were so finely
drawn that you felt as if you were inside their skin. Even Dee Boot,
who isn't actually in the book, is more real than most of the characters
in s St***n K**g novel. (No offense meant). The dentist who is bitten by
a scorpian who takes up two paragraphs is more memorable than the pro-
tagonist in some current books. Big Zwee will always be a hero to me.
Think of the description of the other uses for Lippy's piano and how it
was damaged; Deet's pants; the blue pigs.
And the odd thing, now that I think of it, is that outside of Blue Duck,
there is noone in the book who you dislike. Everyone is a sympathetic
character, whether it is because they die or don't win the girl, or
they suffer, they are stil all likable, and so you are concerned about
them and root for them and feel remorse for them. A remarkable work.
His other books are certainly worth reading but none of them have this
one's scope or detail.
Mary Daniels Brown
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:52:34 -0500, Jennifer Rebecca Larson
<jrla...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>I'm reading A.S.Byatt's -Still Life-. About 30 pages in, and so far so
>good, lots going on, good characters. I read -Possession- about two weeks
>ago and -Babel Tower- two weeks before that. I HAVE to stop reading Byatt
>before I read ALL her books and have nothing to look forward to in the
>future! (Like I've done with Anne Rice's supernatural books, reading them
>all in one summer so now I wait for the fall and her new book to come each
>year.)
>
I just finished "A Yellow Raft in Blue Water" and started re-reading
"Possession" for a book club. This is the only book by Byatt I've ever
read. Glad to hear you like all the others, Jennifer. Which one would
you suggest I tackle next? Thanks.
Mary D. Brown http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4148/
______
"A room without books is like a body without a soul."
--Cicero
David White
What book were you reading when Kennedy was shot?
ski...@earthlink.net
I could not have said it better, and don't try to. I'm brand new here,
and have found this pretty interesting in the last few days. Actually
brand new on coputer. Sorry I'm not very vocal or should I say very
deep when posting my opinions. I loved Lonesome Dove, one of my all time
favorites.
phyllis chamberlain
David White in the U.K. asks "What book were you reading when Kennedy
was shot?
Well, I was reading _How to Care for Your Baby and Child_ , I'm sure,
but most of the RAB were gumming their board books, I imagine.
Phyllis Chamberlain
jover...@geisinger.edu
I never did see the mini-series for Lonesome Dove; Am tempted, but
afraid that after reading the book and having those characters so firmly
etched in my mind I may be disappointed. Has anyone who read the book
before the movie came out enjoyed the movie? Kathy
Tommy Vorst
_Tales of the City_ by Armistead Maupin
_Time among the Maya_ by Ronald Wright
_The Missionaries_ by Norman Lewis
_Roman Britain_ by R. G. Collingwood
_Zorba the Greek_ by N. Kazantzakis
--
Tommy Vorst tvo...@xpressnet.com
"Parents are the hardest working members of the population."
- Pete Seeger
Ted Samsel
phyllis chamberlain <constan...@webtv.net> wrote:
: David White in the U.K. asks "What book were you reading when Kennedy
: was shot?
: Well, I was reading _How to Care for Your Baby and Child_ , I'm sure,
: but most of the RAB were gumming their board books, I imagine.
I was in the junior high library, perusing a volume of WWII
German Panzer hardware. I was in the ninth grade.
Ted Samsel
jover...@geisinger.edu wrote:
: I never did see the mini-series for Lonesome Dove; Am tempted, but
: afraid that after reading the book and having those characters so firmly
: etched in my mind I may be disappointed. Has anyone who read the book
: before the movie came out enjoyed the movie? Kathy
I read the book first and the only problem with the teevee version
is that it was made for the %#@$*&& little screen. Don't even try
to watch the "sequel" with John Voigt as call.
(BTW: the teevee vers of STREETS OF LAREDO and DEAD MAN'S WALK are
nearly up to par with LD (the teevee ver). But I really don't
picture Keith Carradine as Bigfoot Wallace. And Blue Duck is
head-and-shoulders above the pyromaniac in STREETS OF LAREDO..
Moxmox, he is called.)
ObWesternArtist: Charles M. Russell
peter krynicki
jover...@geisinger.edu wrote:
>
> I never did see the mini-series for Lonesome Dove; Am tempted, but
> afraid that after reading the book and having those characters so firmly
> etched in my mind I may be disappointed. Has anyone who read the book
> before the movie came out enjoyed the movie? Kathy
Sure. Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duval are great. Danny Glover as Deets.
Ricky Schroeder as Newt. LaryDayrlandDayrl as Lippy. Angela Houston. And
some horse as the Hell Bitch.
Seriously the few special effects are not very good but they really do
manage to catch much of the panorama of the book. As I recall most of
the characters are there as well.
Hth
Pjk
Bruce McGuffin
Michael Wade <cel...@mwade.demon.co.uk> writes:
(deleted)
> I have also acquired the
(deleted)
> book of all
> time _The Mark of the Scots_ by Duncan A Bruce, which sets out to prove
> that anyone ever who has attained greatness in the world had Scottish
> blood pumping through his veins.
Goes without saying.
Bruce McGuffin
Dene Bebbington
Just finished "The Saddest Pleasure" by Moritz Thomsen.
And have on the go:
Ethics - J.L. Mackie
A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge
--
Dene Bebbington http://www.bebbo.demon.co.uk
"Beside the braes of dawn. One clear new morning. Down where the lilies
stood in bloom. I knew that I was just a stranger in this world. A wind
just passing through." - Calum & Rory Macdonald (Runrig)
Jorn Barger
>: David White in the U.K. asks "What book were you reading when Kennedy
>: was shot?
i was in fifth grade, and that morning my mother gave me the new issue
of "Mad" i'd asked her to pick up. (she'd either gotten home late or
forgotten it the night before.) i hid it under my pillow because i
couldn't take it to school, and i didn't want my sister to read it
before me. and when i found it that night, after the drama of the
assassination all day, it seemed... totally dislocated.
when i heard that di was dead, i was reading alt.showbiz.gossip an
hour after turning off the radio news, which had assured me she had
only a broken arm...
FIDO
David White writes:
What book were you reading when Kennedy was shot?
I was reading the *WEST AUSTRALIAN* while having a liquid lunch
(EMU Bitter) in a Perth, WA, pub. Some of my fellow-oilfinders
- Americans - cheered quite loudly.
FIDO
Jennifer Rebecca Larson
Byatt's -The Matisse Stories- is nice if you don't have a lot of time,
because it is just three short stories. But if you do have time, go with
-Babel Tower-. Someone who reads this newsgroup had e-mailed me and
suggested I take the time to read -Babel Tower-. I thought I'd wait until
summer school ended, but I made the mistake of checking out a library copy
too early, and peeking at the first page, and I was soon hooked. I got
very little sleep until I finished...
I'd be very curious as to how your book club discussion goes, especially
what people like and dislike about the book. For example, I was impressed
by the poems (I'm assuming Byatt wrote them, she did make up the poet
characters, didn't she? Or has my poetical education been so poor?) as a
structure and a feat of writing, but I only skimmed them, as they are not
the type of poetry I usually like, and I really wanted to get back to the
story.
jennifer
FIDO
Bruce McGuffin writes:
Michael Wade writes:
I have also acquired the book of all time _The Mark of
the Scots_ by Duncan A Bruce, which sets out to prove
that anyone ever who has attained greatness in the world
had Scottish blood pumping through his veins.
Goes without saying.
It seems to be a truth universally acknowledged that if a person
knows something that goes without saying, then they are never
satisfied to let it go without saying.
FIDO
Bruce McGuffin
David White <David...@bl.uk> writes:
David White asks:
> What book were you reading when Kennedy was shot?
I was pre-literate in those days (as we like to say now). I do
remember being very annoyed that they cancelled Captain Kangaroo
during his funeral. Perhaps it has some bearing on my subsequent
political development.
Bruce (still a big fan of Mr. Moose, and yes, I do occasionally look up
nervously to see if the ping pong balls are about to fall) McGuffin
Bruce McGuffin
The Occasionally Helpful St SubG wrote:
>
> Bruce McGuffin (mcgu...@ll.mit.edu) wrote:
>
> : Partick O'Brian: The Mauritious Command (will finish after the tailor)
>
> +---------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
> Mauritius.
>
Gesundheit
Bruce McGuffin
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sanja Samac
"Farewell symphony", by Edmund White.
"Le Ton Beau de Marot", by Douglas Hofstadter.
----------------------------------------------------
Sanja Samac * tel. (504) 584 3548
SL-43, Biochemistry * fax (504) 584 2739
Tulane Medical School *
1430 Tulane Avenue * 1607 Napoleon Av., Apt.Q
New Orleans, LA 70112 * New Orleans, LA 70115
----------------------------------------------------
Bruce McGuffin
Ros...@webtv.net (SAR) writes:
Piotrewka Naladka wrote
> "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer
Fascinating. My parents had this book when I was young, and its one of
the first "adult" books I ever read (science fiction was not really
considered an adult genre in those days). I've never heard it
mentioned by anyone else, including my parents, for whom it apparently
just took up shelf space. I loved it, at the time, and read it through
twice, but have since assumed that it must be rather obscure.
Bruce McGuffin
Bob Gore
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Michael Wade wrote:
> In article <rteeterE...@netcom.com>, Robert Teeter
> <rte...@netcom.com> writes
>
> > _Exodus and REvolution_ by Michael Walzer. It's about how
> >the Exodus story has been used to justify and explain revolutionary
> >movements, including Cromwell, the American Revolution, and Marx
> >and Lenin. (The French Revolution is conspicuously -- nearly --
> >absent; Walzer says that's because the fraternite avoided religious
> >symbolism.)
> >
> >
> It's a while since I read it, but there's a book called (I recall) _In
> Pursuit of the Millenium_, by Norman Cohn, which is very good and very
> interesting, though dealing more with post Reformation millenarianism.
> Another fine book covering that era is _The Cheese and the Worms_ by
> Carlo Ginsberg, not about revolutionary movements, but about one man's
> wonderful account of the world.
I'm not so sure about that; the miller had started to convert some of
his neighbors to his self-wrought cosmology, hadn't he? (which is how he
came to the notice of the inquisition). Medieval and early modern
revolutionary movements (if you can safely give them that label) nearly
always spoke in a millenarian tongue. Studies of medieval heresy (or
specific heresies) are the easiest way to approach these movements.
Norman Cohn has written another study- Cosmos, Chaos and the World to
Come- focusing on the origins of millenarianism. And don't ignore
Walzer's other stuff- The Revolution of the Saints (about radical
religious movements in pre-revolutionary and revolutionary England) is
outstanding.
Bob Gore
Claudia HCQ Sorsby
FIDO <fra...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> Nothing right now as I am putting a lot of energy into
> refitting *ZEPHYR*. I have returned a mess of books to
> Green, but the two left on my bedside table are *SARNIA
> CHERIE* and *ULYSSES*. Perhaps they are autumn to winter
> books. I did get the compleat Plays of Gilbert & Sullivan
> in the Norton trade paperback edition and, glories, it has
> a bunch of illustrations by Gilbert himself. Their Savoy
> theatre has just been refurnished and is now back to what
> is was -- rather magnificent. I saw Stoppard there when last
> in London. No, not Stoppard, that johnnie who generally
> writes about East Coast resorts; *A CHORUS OF DISAPPROVAL*
> comes to mind.
Alan Ayckbourn? I believe he wrote that last one, anyway.
>However, one of the good folk on a Silicon
> Investor chat-room misquoted the "messing about" but from
> Kenneth Grahame's *WIND IN THE WILLOWS*, and perhaps I shall
> read that before summer is altogether out.
Sigh. What a lovely book. Thanks just for mentioning it.
In answer to the original question, I'm just starting Julian Barnes' *A
History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters* -- and so far, it's marvelous.
Claudia
Casse Pied
David White wrote:
>
> What book were you reading when Kennedy was shot?
Claudia HCQ Sorsby
Jennifer Rebecca Larson <jrla...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> Byatt's -The Matisse Stories- is nice if you don't have a lot of time,
> because it is just three short stories. But if you do have time, go with
> -Babel Tower-.
Wait, no! Be aware that *Babel Tower* is the *third* book in a projected
foursome: It follows *The Virgin in the Garden* and *Still Life.*
Personally, I hate starting a series in the middle.
I liked *The Matisse Stories,* but I felt kind of gypped by it; not only
is it short, but one of the stories is lifted in toto from *Possession.*
I call it recycling one's material, and I call that cheesy.
Claudia
Boom-Boom
Puss in Boots wrote:
>
> Trouble is, I haven't read Jaynes; I've looked at the book (thick,
> ain't it?), and I've got a second-hand notion of the thesis, but
> that's all I can say. From what I've heard, you're right -- it _would_
> fit The Book of Job pretty well, given all the talking God does. Is
> Jaynes worth the time and effort? That's what held me back, before --
> seemed interesting, but I wasn't sure that I had the necessary devotion.
It's very big print! Yes, I think you'll find it interesting. Don't take
any second-hand notions, now. I'm extremely surprised at the lack of
solid critiques. By the way, e.p., I checked out dejanews, and very
little there of substance, though a delightful tidbit about Jaynes, who
according to one poster, hadn't heard of the internet and was therefore
probably less than chagrined by his reception on rec.arts.sf.written.
Boom-Boom (firing on both camera)
Adrian Riskin
Bruce McGuffin wrote:
> Saki: Complete Short Stories
Did you read The Open Window yet? That's one of my favorite short
stories. I've been reading Saki over the course of the last few years,
as slowly as I can---it's too easy to read a million of them in a
row---like peanuts.
>
>
> Don Marquis(sp?): Archy and Mehetibel (sp?)
--
Adrian Riskin
ari...@mps.org
http://mps.org/~ariskin
Paul Ilechko
Robertson Davies - The Deptford Trilogy. Finished Fifth Business, and
well into The Manticore.
Paul.
Matt Ackeret
"The Green Mile" by Stephen King. The all-in-one-book version. (Hey, I'm
a King fan, and buy most of his books hardcover, but I'm not enough of a
sucker to pay approx $2.50, even at Crown Books, for each of those puny
novellas.)
I just recently got back into bookreading (I've got several King books I
haven't even read).. I read TONS of Usenet and several newspapers thoroughly
a week (i.e. I read Fri & Sat on Sat, and Sun on Sun.. and sometimes skim
parts other days).. I had ordered "Forgotten Fads and Fabulous Flops"
and "How the Cadillac Got its Fins" off of amazon.com and altbookstore.com a
few months ago (I think one from each, in bigger orders), and ended up reading
BOTH of them in like two or three nights. They have some duplicate material,
and each covered well known urban legends so neither is fully trustable, but
they were entertaining.
I also finished a book on this history of radio. I forget the name at
the moment.. it has the same name as the series by Ken Burns, but from the
info at the back of the book, its less of a "Companion" book than a separate
book and documentary on the same subjects, done *partially* in collaboration,
with the same titles. (That doesn't really make sense, I realize.)
This book was like $4 at Crown as a remainder. What a steal for a fascinating
book.
Random side questions:
Does anyone know of any web site that indexes *all* of the online bookstores?
Especially one that will take a list of books, and figure out, including
shipping, the *best* way to order all of them? I certainly don't want to
end up writing such a page, but if none exists I may. (Don't look for it
anytime soon though.)
I've been looking for "Bad Science" by Gary Taubes, and the book/short story/
whatever "Riverworld" by Philip Jose Farmer for a long time. Searching online,
it seems like Riverworld was republished a bunch of times, and it had sequels.
But as far as I could figure, it isn't in print in anything at the moment.
Does anyone know of evidence to the contrary? Thanks.
(Also "For God, Country, and Coca Cola"..)
--
mat...@area.com
Matt Beckwith
Advanced Trauma Life Support
The Creators
Russian Grammar
Latin
Empowering Conversations
Winning with the Smith-Morra Gambit
Richard Harter
FIDO <fra...@stanford.edu> wrote:
>Bruce McGuffin writes:
> Michael Wade writes:
> Goes without saying.
As you were saying...
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net, The Concord Research Institute
URL = http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, phone = 1-508-369-3911
There is no better or more profound theory of ethics than that of
Mammy Yokum - "Good is better than evil because it is nicer."
Puss in Boots
Boom-Boom:
> > >The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by
> > >Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this? I seem to remember there were some
> > >critiques of Jaynes' theories some years ago. Does anyone remember
> > >authors or titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
> > >battles for the soul.
Jeff:
> > I am surprised that a girl with such an original consciousness as
> > yours hasn't read this, yet. But great stuff, you're right. Keep
> > that helmet on, though -- some anthropological type is bound to start
> > lobbing dismissive tirades.
Boom-Boom:
> ooh goodie, I wonder if it will be one of my favourite anthropological
> types - the ones with the knuckles not quite dragging the floor, of
> course. Actually, the first thing I did, after rubbing my tiny hands in
> glee and opening it right in the middle, was to look in the index to see
> if there was any mention of the Book of Job. There wasn't, but luckily
> the wole book is about the BoJ and similar folk-tales. Though Jeff is
> only teasing me into admitting that I find it improbable that I have an
> original consciousness, given Jayes' persuasive thesis that
> consciousness itself followed a n original manner of operating the brain
> which I, and many poets I suspect, would be likely to claim is still in
> regular, though not permanent day-to-day use in some fields of human
> endeavour. Though of course the relationships Jaynes explores are often
> misunderstood, and therefore argued vehemently, among all sorts of
> artists, anthropologists included. Come in Moggin!
Trouble is, I haven't read Jaynes; I've looked at the book (thick,
ain't it?), and I've got a second-hand notion of the thesis, but
that's all I can say. From what I've heard, you're right -- it _would_
fit The Book of Job pretty well, given all the talking God does. Is
Jaynes worth the time and effort? That's what held me back, before --
seemed interesting, but I wasn't sure that I had the necessary devotion.
-- Moggin
Michael Wade
In article <Pine.A32.3.96.970910...@vth1.vth.colostate
.edu>, Bob Gore <bg...@vth.colostate.edu> writes
>
> I'm not so sure about that; the miller had started to convert some of
>his neighbors to his self-wrought cosmology, hadn't he? (which is how he
>came to the notice of the inquisition). Medieval and early modern
>revolutionary movements (if you can safely give them that label) nearly
>always spoke in a millenarian tongue. Studies of medieval heresy (or
>specific heresies) are the easiest way to approach these movements.
> Norman Cohn has written another study- Cosmos, Chaos and the World to
>Come- focusing on the origins of millenarianism. And don't ignore
>Walzer's other stuff- The Revolution of the Saints (about radical
>religious movements in pre-revolutionary and revolutionary England) is
>outstanding.
>
>
>
> Bob Gore
>
>
You're on the mark about the Ginsberg book, I think.
Another one, which I'm sure you've read is _The World Turned Upside
Down_ by Christopher Hill, which describes the many and varied sects
that sprang up in England between 1640 and 1660. It must be nearly 20
years since I read it, but one or two details stick in my mind - the
Muggletonians of Lancashire, for example, and the story of George Fox,
the founder of the Quakers, walking naked through the streets of
Lichfield shouting 'Woe to the City of Lichfield'.
What strikes me about the people described by Ginsberg and Hill is that
if they did those kind of things today, in the permissive 1990s, they'd
be locked in the loony bin and the key thrown away.
PS - it was your comments about WW2 fiction that encouraged me to pick
up Waugh - so cheers for that!
--
Michael Wade
Fiona Webster
Wow--I just finished _The Bunker Man_ by Duncan McLean.
What a dark, creepy novel! The best (or worst, depending on
your point of view) part about it is that the horror is only just
beginning, at the end of the book. A fascinating and utterly
believable study of madness, written in spare prose that
has just enough Scottish dialect in it to lend atmosphere.
Quick summary: A janitor at a school in Scotland becomes
obsessed with sex, with evil things out there in the world that
are threatening children and good people, with all the "cunts"
(both male and female) of the world. He projects these fears
onto his wife, onto a school girl he's hanging out with, and
especially onto a mysterious man in a hooded parka (anorak)
who lives in an abandoned gun emplacement by the ocean.
His paranoia escalates toward violence.
--Fiona
Michael Wade
In article <vk90x50...@ll.mit.edu>, Bruce McGuffin
<mcgu...@ll.mit.edu> writes
> _The Mark of the Scots_ by Duncan A Bruce, which sets out to prove
>> that anyone ever who has attained greatness in the world had Scottish
>> blood pumping through his veins.
>
>Goes without saying.
>
>Bruce McGuffin
Indeed. Let me give you a couple of for instances from Mr Bruce's book.
(i)
Photocaption
The leaders of the Western Alliance in World War II, Franklin D
Roosevelt, Charles de Gaulle and Winston Churchill, at Casablanca in
1943. All three statesmen had Scottish ancestors.
(ii)
Appendix U
A Proposed Scottish-American All Time All Star [baseball] Team
Pitcher Walter Johnson
Catcher Bill Dickey
First base John Bottomley
Second Base Rogers Hornsby
Third Base Harmon Killebrew
Shortstop Arky Vaughan
Left Field Ralph Kiner
Center Field Ty Cobb
Right Field Duke Snider
Wierd, huh? There's 300 pages of this stuff representing a fairly
single-minded piece of research.
Ob Song: Letter from America, the Proclaimers
--
Michael Wade
Leah31947
Dead In the Water by Stuart Woods. Actually, I started it yesterday and
finished it very quickly. Good characters, great story. Typical
Woods--sucks you in and makes you stay there til you finish!
Cheers,
Leah
>>I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused! :) >>
Jennifer Rebecca Larson
I'm reading -Still Life-, as I mentioned before, (#2 in a series) after I
read -Babel Tower- (#3). I'm sorry if I forgot to mention that, yes, it
is a series. Normally I, too, like to read a series in order (I still
can't imagine how people read Anne Rice's -Vampire Chronicles- out of
order. But in this case -Babel Tower- was recommended to me by someone who
knew I hadn't read the first two in the series.
So far, it's been good. It's like I met Fredrica while she was living
through -Babel Tower-, and then since we got to be good friends I wanted
to know about her past, so I went back to -Still Life- (picking #2 rather
than #1 because it was the only one available at the library.) I haven't
felt (yet, and it may change) that reading #3 spoiled #2. Yes, I know
that Stephanie won't live to see her children grow up, but that lends a
certain something special to the book, imho.
So, the new, improved recommendation:
Some people like to read in order, so don't read -Babel Tower- first if
that is how you are.
Other people (myself) read it first and felt it stood alone very well and
(so far) hasn't spoiled going back and reading the others.
As for -The Matisse Stories-, they were the first Byatt I read, and got me
hooked on her longer works. I think if I went back and reread them (esp.
in the wake of -Possession-), I would agree with you that the are
slighter. I usually do not like short stories just because they are
short. I like to read something that will give me at least a few days of
reading with the characters.
jennifer
Larisa Migachyov
Feuchtwanger's "Raquel". It is one of my favorite books.
Larisa
Puss in Boots
Boom-Boom:
> Don't take any second-hand notions, now.
But they could replace the collection of wooden nickels that I
traded for a cup of coffee. (I had to throw in an extra two bits.)
-- Moggin
David E Latane
I'm reading _Maribou Stork Nightmare_, which I like better than
_Trainspotting_, which I liked about as much as dogpoop on a persian
carpet. And Gibbon still, after a hiatus. I'm enjoying the footnotes
more, now that I'm studying latin grammar seriously rather than guessing
(e.g., "that's a whopping big ending, I betcha it's a pluperfect
passive!) The rebroadcast here of "I Claudius" has sent me to various
Michael Grant tomes and translations os Suetonius.
D. Latane
BMShields
Reading now:
_I know why the caged bird sings_ by Maya Angelou
_The Good Book - Reading the Bible with Mind and Heart_ by Peter Gomes
(also working my way through the real G.B, cover to cover - on 1 Samuel now)
Next on the pile:
_Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood_ by Rebecca Wells (Little Altars
Everywhere was a lot of fun......)
_Independent People_ by Halldor Laxness (1955 Nobel Prize in Literature)
_The Grotesque_ by Patrick McGrath (later made into a weird movie starring
Sting.....)
Greg Morrison
In <5v6dvj$lf2$1...@newsd-1.alma.webtv.net> constan...@webtv.net (phyllis chamberlain) writes:
>David White in the U.K. asks "What book were you reading when Kennedy
>was shot?
Well, as it happened, I *was* reading a book when Kennedy was shot --
or rather, when I heard that Kennedy had been shot. I was sitting at
the kitchen table in my student apartment, reading a paperback edition
of selections from Spinoza for a philosophy course. A fellow I knew
only casually rushed in, and said, "Turn on the radio!"
Odd to remember these details after such a long time; I can still
picture the radio itself....
--
Greg Morrison, | morr...@ccs.carleton.ca
Computing and Communications Services, |
Carleton University, | phone: (613) 788-2600 ext. 2507
1125 Colonel By Drive, |
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1S 5B6 | fax: (613) 788-4448
Barry Allan
Fiona Webster wrote:
>
> Wow--I just finished _The Bunker Man_ by Duncan McLean.
> obsessed with sex, with evil things out there in the world that
> are threatening children and good people, with all the "cunts"
> (both male and female) of the world. He projects these fears
> onto his wife, onto a school girl he's hanging out with, and
> especially onto a mysterious man in a hooded parka (anorak)
> who lives in an abandoned gun emplacement by the ocean.
> His paranoia escalates toward violence.
Does this inhabit the same territory as Patrick McCabe's "The Dead
School" where a teacher of the "old school" (sorry) in Ireland cannot
handle what he sees as a drop in standards in modern Ireland and gets
madder by the page, til the point he bludgeons his entire class to death
(in his mind anyway)? There is a parallel tale where Malachi, one of
his young colleagues, goes off to London and lives the life he found so
deplorable which becomes a kind of morality tale.
Barry
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Allan, Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Note the spam-block in my address and remove *remove* if replying.
Matt Beckwith
>Boom-Boom <and...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>>The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by
>>Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this? I seem to remember there were some
>>critiques of Jaynes' theories some years ago. Does anyone remember
>>authors or titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
>>battles for the soul.
Sounds interesting. What else is this book about? Does it
specifically have a thesis about the way the mind works, or should
work? Thanks.
Boom-Boom
Matt Beckwith wrote, it thought only in email, but seeing as he was just
being polite, I'll answer here too:
it, is that consciousness developed as a way of mapping the operation of
the brain via introspection, thereby, perhaps co-incidentally, allowing
the suppression of the auditory and visual hallucinations of the right
side of the brain.
I'm hoping some people will be interested enough to read it, and
exchange thoughts on it, with me. Despite the immediate reaction of some
on rab, I am not pushing Jaynes' theory, but merely interested in
finding out what, if anything, is wrong with it. It seems to be one of
those books which induce strong feelings in its readers, reason enough
to be interested in it, I guess.
cheers
Boom-Boom
Nix Zeitgeist
Fiona Webster <f...@DELETETHISoceanstar.com> wrote:
> Wow--I just finished _The Bunker Man_ by Duncan McLean.
Scots among us? Is "cunt" as frequently used in the actual language as
it is portrayed in some recent literature?)
--
"The world is populated by ingrates, morons, assholes, and
those beneath them." -Wolf J. Flywheel, as quoted by Peter Straub
**Show no mercy for my proper e-mail address.
mbe...@mtc.dst.ca.us
In article <1997091021...@accs-as22-dp06.dlls.grid.net>,
ch...@macconnect.com (Claudia HCQ Sorsby) wrote:
> Wait, no! Be aware that *Babel Tower* is the *third* book in a projected
> foursome: It follows *The Virgin in the Garden* and *Still Life.*
> Personally, I hate starting a series in the middle.
My book group read *Virgin in the Garden* about 10 months ago, and I
couldn't get into it at all. I found it very dense, filled with
references that I knew were there but was unable to understand (a
combination of her erudition and my ignorance?), and very academic.
The group I'm in was fairly evenly divided by those of us who hated it
and those who loved it, so YMMV. Also for what it's worth, I just
started reading *Possession* and I'm finding it much more enjoyable.
Michael
>
>
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
mbe...@mtc.dst.ca.us
*Palimpsest* by Gore Vidal. It's my book groups BOTM. It's
entertaining, with lots of tony gossip, snippets about who he's met, and
so forth. I've never read anything by Vidal before, which is diminishing
the impact some.
*Possession* by A.S. Byatt.
*The Beak of the Finch* (author escapes me) about natural selection among
Darwin's finches on the Galapagos. Fascinating stuff.
All for now!
A S
Nix Zeitgeist <n...@wwnet.com> wrote in article
<19970912120...@dbnas189.wwnet.com>...
>Is "cunt" as frequently used in the actual language as
> it is portrayed in some recent literature?)
> --
Mine's only used about once a year.
--
The Great and Secret Swanner
Not speaking for Intergraph corp. or Intergraph Express Inc.
Michael S. Morris
Boom-Boom writes:
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the
Bicameral Mind, by Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this?
I seem to remember there were some critiques of Jaynes'
theories some years ago. Does anyone remember authors or
titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
battles for the soul.
I read it some years ago, and will admit to considering it a real
neat book. There is much about it to criticize. For instance,
his historical thesis rests approximately on its possibility
(on its maybe surprising plausibility) and on the absence of
any evidence to the contrary. The sections on Homer and on the
Book of the Dead seem to me interpretations twisted to fit the
thesis in the same way that many of Van Daniken's literary excursions
were done. Nevertheless, they raise the real possibility that
ancient psychology was fundamentally different than ours.
There is much in it I think as well that ideas about mind and
brain have gone beyond by now. But, it seems to me that the
opening essay about what consciousness is, or rather, about what
consciousness isn't, and on the myriad things humans might have
been able to do without yet being conscious is still pretty
important.
Mike Morris
(msmo...@netdirect.net)
Robert Teeter
Boom-Boom (and...@indiana.edu) wrote:
: > >>The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by
: > >>Julian Jaynes. Anyone else read this? I seem to remember there were some
: > >>critiques of Jaynes' theories some years ago. Does anyone remember
: > >>authors or titles? Lovely stuff on the Muses, and on leftside-rightside
: > >>battles for the soul.
: It's mainly about consciousness, and his main thesis, as I understand
: it, is that consciousness developed as a way of mapping the operation of
: the brain via introspection, thereby, perhaps co-incidentally, allowing
: the suppression of the auditory and visual hallucinations of the right
: side of the brain.
: I'm hoping some people will be interested enough to read it, and
: exchange thoughts on it, with me. Despite the immediate reaction of some
: on rab, I am not pushing Jaynes' theory, but merely interested in
: finding out what, if anything, is wrong with it. It seems to be one of
: those books which induce strong feelings in its readers, reason enough
: to be interested in it, I guess.
I haven't read it either, Boom Boom, I'm sorry to say. But,
from what I've heard, doesn't Jaynes argue that these changes in the
brain occurred in the last 5,000 years of civilization? I don't know
what time frame he uses -- maybe it's 10,000 or 20,0000 years -- but
these are very short periods for major evolutionary changes to take
place.
Has Richard Harter weighed in on this book?
--
Bob Teeter (rte...@netcom.com) | http://www.wco.com/~rteeter/
"On the Internet, we are not all wise children" -- E. G.-M.
"Government may not reduce the adult population to only what is fit for
children" -- U.S. Supreme Court, Reno v. ACLU, June 26, 1997
Pin~on Jack
The Plague, Albert Camus.
"...one begins to wonder if intelligence itself is not merely a
disease of the brain and if our ideologies, true or false, right
or wrong, are the ideal carriers of death."
Romain Gary, Introduction to _The Plague_ by Albert Camus
"To feel absolutely right is the beginning of the end."
Albert Camus
Holly Gallup
_The Moor's Last Sigh_ by Salman Rushdie
_Stones Don't Float_ (a new book of poetry) by John Haag
What I was reading when Kennedy was shot:
_Algebra I_ (but I've long forgotten the authors)
--holly
FIDO
Richard Harter writes:
Robert Teeter writes:
I haven't read it either ...
I haven't read it either ...
Here we go again. Paschal?
FIDO
Richard Harter
rte...@netcom.com (Robert Teeter) wrote:
>Boom-Boom (and...@indiana.edu) wrote:
> I haven't read it either, Boom Boom, I'm sorry to say. But,
>from what I've heard, doesn't Jaynes argue that these changes in the
>brain occurred in the last 5,000 years of civilization? I don't know
>what time frame he uses -- maybe it's 10,000 or 20,0000 years -- but
>these are very short periods for major evolutionary changes to take
>place.
> Has Richard Harter weighed in on this book?
I haven't read it either. However I have read numerous discussions of it
over the years in usenet groups and have even read stories based on it.
I suppose this qualifies me to discuss it in an unqualified manner.
The major arguments, IIAC, are (a) a literary argument based on an
analysis of old writings, and (b) a physical argument based on the
bicameral brain. Both of the these arguments are suspect.
One can indeed argue from examination of old writings that the ancients
wrote and thought differently than we do today. However trying to tease
out those differences is a treacherous matter, attested to by the large
amount of crank pseudoscience produced out of similar efforts.
Likewise arguments about left brain/ right brain domains of functionality
are dubious, although I have the impression that his argument is not
that. The left/right dichotomy is severely over-stated in the popular
conception.
If the change is to be attributed to a physical change then it doesn't
wash - it's inconsistent with what we know about human evolution. If, as
I understand to be the case, he attributes it to a learned cultural
transition, there is the problem that pre-literate cultures don't jibe
with 'consciousness is a product of civilization'.
All I can say is that nothing that has been said on its behalf by
enthusiasts has given me any reason to believe that the thesis is sound.
However it may well be that the representations that I have seen do not
do it justice.
Michael L. Siemon
In article <34199D...@stanford.edu>, fra...@stanford.edu wrote:
+Richard Harter writes:
+
+ Robert Teeter writes:
+
+ I haven't read it either ...
+
+ I haven't read it either ...
+
+Here we go again. Paschal?
Well, I for one have read it. It's complete crap (romantic and
highly suggestive crap, but crap nonethelss; among its *least*
faults is the attempt to read Homeric idiom literally....)
--
Michael L. Siemon m...@panix.com
"Green is the night, green kindled and apparelled.
It is she that walks among astronomers."
-- Wallace Stevens
lee
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:04:07 -0400 n...@wwnet.com (Nix Zeitgeist) wrote in
<19970912120...@dbnas189.wwnet.com>:
Fiona Webster <f...@DELETETHISoceanstar.com> wrote:
> Wow--I just finished _The Bunker Man_ by Duncan McLean.
That sounds like an excellent read. Is it a new book? (Are there any
Scots among us? Is "cunt" as frequently used in the actual language as
it is portrayed in some recent literature?)
--
"The world is populated by ingrates, morons, assholes, and
those beneath them." -Wolf J. Flywheel, as quoted by Peter Straub
Depends on the education of the users of the language.
Same for 'ken'.
Lee
Fiona Webster
Peter K writes of *Lonesome Dove*:
> The problem is, IMO, he never before or afterwards wrote anything 1/2
> as good as this.
'Coulda fooled me. My favorite McMurtry, of the several I've read,
is _Cadillac Jack_. But _Texasville_ is awfully good, too--a devastatingly
accurate portrayal of my home state.
Except for that great opening line about how it's too damn hot for pigs on
the porch," most of _Lonesome Dove_ is just another cornball western.
Good role for Robert Duvall, though, I hafta admit.
--yeh, mah dad is in the awl bi'ness,
Fiona
Ian J
In Bedroom - Book 5 of The Belgariad - Dave Eddings
In car - Hogfather - Terry Pratchett
At Work - Book 5 of The Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
Comments welcome.
--
Regards,
Ian J.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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E-mail : sal...@btinternet.com
Home Page: www.btinternet.com/~saltash/home.htm
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David Bluestone
I was watching Harry Worth on TV.
He was good, he was.
David
Fiona Webster
FIDO writes:
> It seems to be a truth universally acknowledged that if a person
> knows something that goes without saying, then they are never
> satisfied to let it go without saying.
Yup. Goes without saying.
--Fiona
Fiona Webster
D. writes:
> You like 'scary books'? Have you read A Philosophical Investigation?
> Philip Kerr. Creepy and technical!
It got good reviews, so yes, I gave it a try, but I couldn't finish it.
I found it oddly bitter and unengaging--not emotional enough, and thus
not horrifying. It's clever, though, in a dystopian way: I suspect it would
appeal more to science fiction and/or mystery readers.
--Fiona
Fiona Webster
David White asks:
> What book were you reading when Kennedy was shot?
I was reading _Haunt Fox_, by Jim Kjelgaard--one of numerous little novels
about animals I read in elementary school. I can remember what book it
was because I'd just lost it, the night before, somewhere in my bedroom.
I was terrified that I wouldn't be able to find it, and the library would make
me pay for it. On the day that Kennedy was shot we were sent home early
from school. I was looking out the window in my bedroom, and happened to
glance down at the end of my bed: there was the book, lodged between the
footboard and my bookcase.
--Fiona