The JaneSoc of Snod
Francis Muir
Jane Austen Society of Stanford on some aspect of *Mansfield Park*.
Since I had made it clear that I thought Fanny Price was no more than a
structural backbone to the novel, and that Mary Crawford deserved more
attention, I thought I'd better set about doing a bit of research,
particularly on JA's first cousin, Eliza Hancock, who may have been a
part model for MC. Recall that she, EH, was probably the natural
daughter of Warren Hastings, grew up in England in the care of her
mother and two colored servants, Peter & Clarinda, and was married in
Paris to the comte de Feuillide until he lost his head to madame Guillotine.
First step was to zip through *The Cambridge Companion to JANE AUSTEN*
which has all the references but is otherwise excruciatingly boring as
these academic exercises so often are. However, there is one noble
exception, Claudia L. Johnson's Chapter on *Austen cults & cultures*. It
is a hilarious accounting of the various bourgeois and academic Janeite
factions that have come and gone -- well, not quite all gone -- in the
last 100 years. She is particularly good playing around with Rudyard
Kipling's short story *The Janeites*, which many consider to be
Kipling's worst effort but which, nevertheless, continues, apparently,
to be the most referenced of all his works. It is included in *Debits &
Credits* (Penguin, 1987) and also in Rudyard Kipling's *Collected
Stories* (Everyman's Library). it is this latter book that I have out.
Oh yes, and I also got out Austen-Leigh's *Austen Papers: 1704-1856*
which contains many letters from Eliza Hancock to, chiefly, Philadelphia
Walter. very witty stuff; well worth reading. Oh yes, from the Kipling
tale a line that deserves to be better known, and will be when I have it
emblazoned on a sweat:
"There's no one to touch Jane when you're in a tight place"
Jorn Barger
> Kipling's short story *The Janeites*, which many consider to be
> Kipling's worst effort but which, nevertheless, continues, apparently,
> to be the most referenced of all his works. It is included in *Debits &
> Credits* (Penguin, 1987) and also in Rudyard Kipling's *Collected
> Stories* (Everyman's Library).
This sounded eminently webloggable, but alas it's not yet etextified
that I can see. There is this detailed summary:
<URL:http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jasa1/newsdc99.htm#janeites>
--
To the Sirens first shalt thou come, who bewitch all men...
I edit the Net: <URL:http://www.robotwisdom.com/>
"...frequented by the digerati" --The New York Times
krazy kat
says...
> I have let myself in to lead a discussion at the next meeting of the
> Jane Austen Society of Stanford on some aspect of *Mansfield Park*.
> Since I had made it clear that I thought Fanny Price was no more than a
> structural backbone to the novel, and that Mary Crawford deserved more
> attention,
Have you seen the recent film of Mansfield Park? It departs from the
more traditional reading -- which is to accept Fanny as protagonist and
find some ways in which we with our modern sensibilities my find here
more likeable than she seems to be at first sight. As they have a
entirely charming lead actress to play her, and take considerable
liberties with the text of the novel (as far as I remember it, anyway),
they have little trouble turning Fanny Price into the standard totally
adorable Austen-heroine.
I enjoyed the film a lot. One of the most interesting things is the
liberties they take with the text -- they are far less conservative than
the BBC's adaptors of Pride and Prejudice (a series I liked too).
Indeed, I thought the credits at the start said it was "based on the
novel and letters of Jane Austen" or something like that. They inject a
bit of biographical material -- de facto half turning Fanny Price into a
portrait of Jane Austen herself.
This may seem outrageous (especially to someone who seems to
dislike the dyspeptic Fanny as much as you do!), but it's really quite
nice. The thing is, in the end she gets all she wants, marries Edmund
and the last we hear is that some publisher is even interested in
publishing her books. Of course, you may expect from the viewer that
s/he at least knows that Jane Austen herself succeeded only in this last
aspect: her books did get published, but she never achieved the "happy
ever after" of her heroines. I felt that it made the ending of this
novel quite poignant -- it's like one of those postmodern alternative
histories.
They also make a lot of the Bertram's owning a slave plantation
and Fanny's objection to slavery & stuff. I can't judge how
anachronistic this is, but I think it was fairly well managed and didn't
come across as an annoying kind of lip service to PC.
Anyway, the film made me feel like rereading the novel again too, so
that can never be bad. (Fanny Price in the novel *is* no aspiring
authoress, is she... I'm starting to doubt know, it's been so long since
I read it.)
I don't think I'd totally agree with your starting point about Fanny &
Mary -- but OTOH somewhat extreme vantage points can often lead to
fruitful interpretations of works of literature -- so good luck with
your lecture.
--
Frank Lekens
operamail.com is where it's really @
Fiona Webster
> I have let myself in to lead a discussion at the next
> meeting of the Jane Austen Society of Stanford on some
> aspect of *Mansfield Park*.
I recommend Nabokov's discussion of _Mansfield Park_ in
his _Lectures on Literature_. He uses a map to illustrate
some of his points. It's a great book overall, and a
nice companion to his _Lectures on Russian Literature_.
My father (bless his heart) gave me both of them for
Christmas one year when I was an undergrad.
--Fiona
swum
Francis Muir wrote in message <392F33E6...@stanford.edu>...
>However, there is one noble
>exception, Claudia L. Johnson's Chapter on *Austen cults & cultures*. It
>is a hilarious accounting of the various bourgeois and academic Janeite
>factions that have come and gone
Why pretend that bourgeois and academic were different? What could be more
bourgeois than the leisure class grouses who futz around in wealthy old
institutions and go on 'confrences' while working people serve them and
clean up after them? It has been pointed out by numerous folks who *don't*
inhabit such places that those folks most concerned about miniscule
calibrations of status, who are most likely to prejudge people, and are most
likely to fart around foreign locales on wine tasting tours and taking snap
shots of the native peoples, and more stingy and narrowly focused than any
business person, are those who like to live in academe.
What hatefuly, misleading and distracting snobbery to pretend that bourgeois
and academic were different things!
tejas
Academics don't make enough to be truly bourgeois. At least the ones
I know. Except for a few who married "up".
You seem fairly hateful yourself, "swum".
--
TBSa...@richmond.infi.net (also te...@infi.net)
http://mh106.infi.net/~tejas/
'Do the boogie woogie in the South American way'
Hank Snow (1914-1999)
THE RHUMBA BOOGIE
Marg Petersen
tejas <tbsa...@richmond.infi.net> wrote:
>swum wrote:
>>
>> Francis Muir wrote in message <392F33E6...@stanford.edu>...
>> >However, there is one noble
>> >exception, Claudia L. Johnson's Chapter on *Austen cults & cultures*. It
>> >is a hilarious accounting of the various bourgeois and academic Janeite
>> >factions that have come and gone
>>
>> Why pretend that bourgeois and academic were different? What could be more
>> bourgeois than the leisure class grouses who futz around in wealthy old
>> institutions and go on 'confrences' while working people serve them and
>> clean up after them? It has been pointed out by numerous folks who *don't*
>> inhabit such places that those folks most concerned about miniscule
>> calibrations of status, who are most likely to prejudge people, and are most
>> likely to fart around foreign locales on wine tasting tours and taking snap
>> shots of the native peoples, and more stingy and narrowly focused than any
>> business person, are those who like to live in academe.
>> What hatefuly, misleading and distracting snobbery to pretend that bourgeois
>> and academic were different things!
>
>Academics don't make enough to be truly bourgeois. At least the ones
>I know. Except for a few who married "up".
That's for sure. And I don't personally know any who married up.
Most married *across*, that is, academics marrying academics.
>You seem fairly hateful yourself, "swum".
Agreed.
>TBSa...@richmond.infi.net (also te...@infi.net)
> http://mh106.infi.net/~tejas/
> 'Do the boogie woogie in the South American way'
> Hank Snow (1914-1999)
> THE RHUMBA BOOGIE
Marg
--
The Quest is everything!
Francis Muir
Nah. Just a troll.
swum
Francis Muir wrote in message <393061AC...@stanford.edu>...
They typically make two to four times as much as the average self-sufficient
wage earning adult. How conservative you people are! Let's work twenty to
thirty hours a week while paying the custodial workers and food servers and
all the blue collars on campus *eight or nine* bucks an hour!
>> That's for sure. And I don't personally know any who married up.
>> Most married *across*, that is, academics marrying academics.
How crushingly dull.
>Nah. Just a troll.
You conservative horses' asses need someone to wake you up. Perhaps you're
all middle aged, too - ugghh!
Margaret
'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time that
literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
priviledged and conventional.
Margaret
"I'm a radical, deal with it."
tejas wrote in message <39303D...@richmond.infi.net>...
>swum wrote:
>>
>> Francis Muir wrote in message <392F33E6...@stanford.edu>...
>> >However, there is one noble
>> >exception, Claudia L. Johnson's Chapter on *Austen cults & cultures*. It
>> >is a hilarious accounting of the various bourgeois and academic Janeite
>> >factions that have come and gone
>>
>> Why pretend that bourgeois and academic were different? What could be
more
>> bourgeois than the leisure class grouses who futz around in wealthy old
>> institutions and go on 'confrences' while working people serve them and
>> clean up after them? It has been pointed out by numerous folks who
*don't*
>> inhabit such places that those folks most concerned about miniscule
>> calibrations of status, who are most likely to prejudge people, and are
most
>> likely to fart around foreign locales on wine tasting tours and taking
snap
>> shots of the native peoples, and more stingy and narrowly focused than
any
>> business person, are those who like to live in academe.
>> What hatefuly, misleading and distracting snobbery to pretend that
bourgeois
>> and academic were different things!
>
>Academics don't make enough to be truly bourgeois. At least the ones
>I know. Except for a few who married "up".
>
>You seem fairly hateful yourself, "swum".
>--
krazy kat
> Perhaps you're
> all middle aged, too - ugghh!
>
>
from the tone of these totally pointless, off topic rants).
krazy kat
says...
> Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made.
>
members to the wall? Changing it into a moderated group where you will
act as Big Brother? Exiling some of the "members"? Changing the name
into rec.arts.endless-discussions-about-society-and-the-division-of-
wealth-rather-than-about-literature? What does your rant have to do with
the original post?
Francis Muir posted a message about Jane Austen, and about Kipling's
story about Austenites. swum answered with some off topic remark having
nothing to do with books, and contributing nothing to a discussion of
either Austen or Kipling's story. Unfortunately, some people chose to
take the message seriously, so that there are now more replies to this
OT post than to the original one. I now do the same (I ought to be shot
for this).
For a self-declared radical, you sound pretty pathetic. If you'd like to
talk about books, talk about books. If the topic of a particular thread
doesn't interest you (e.g. because Austen is a white establishment
author who cannot possibly have anything of relevance to say about the
world that 90% of the world population inhabits right now -- if that's
your view) -- fine. Just ignore the thread and start one of your own
about a book that you do like.
> It's about time that literature is taken out of the hands of the few,
> out of the hands of the priviledged and conventional.
"Taken out of the hands"? It's in nobody's hands but your own. You pick
up a book, you read it, if you wish to discuss it, you try to find
someone to discuss it with. If the other person doesn't share your ideas
to a sufficient extent to make the discussion fruitful, find someone
else.
tejas
>
> I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
> 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
> priviledged and conventional.
>
>
> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
ObSong: I USED TO BE A RADICAL by Root Boy Slim
tejas
>
> In article <Zx_X4.11$6r4....@news.callamer.com>, non@n.n says...
> > Perhaps you're
> > all middle aged, too - ugghh!
> >
> >
> Well, not everybody can be 12 years of age (as you seem to be, judging
> from the tone of these totally pointless, off topic rants).
Hell, my teenaged kids can trash me in more creative ways than "swum"
does. They'll at least riff on a different theme each time, but I've
been hearing "swum's" rant for over 30 years. I wonder who writes
its material. It isn't even as up-to-date as RAGE AGAINST THE PARENT'S
MACHINE which is pretty pedestrian, anyhoo.
Feckin' trust fund baybeez!
Fiona Webster
> I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
> 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
> something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time that
> literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
> priviledged and conventional.
Wow! Are you for real, Margaret? If so, please stay around. You're
even more of a hoot than Alice "I don't DO library books" Liesman.
--Fiona
Old Slogan: "I'm a liberal, deal with it."
New slogan: "The day you take away my trashy horror books is the
day when you pry them out of my dead white middle-aged hands."
Heather Henderson
> 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
> something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time that
> literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
> priviledged and conventional.
>
>
> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
Sorry honey, but you're not a radical - you're just an unusually whiny
troll.
--
Heather Henderson
hea...@scc.net
http://scc.net/~heather
Joann Zimmerman
> You conservative horses' asses need someone to wake you up. Perhaps you're
> all middle aged, too - ugghh!
Just wait a few years, babe ... time is no (dis)respecter of pure
intentions or whatever it is that's afflicting you.
Funny how one can go along, having a life, and then one day, oops,
you're over the hill. And you didn't do thing one to deserve it, except
exist at one second per second for a given number of seconds.
As to academics making too much money, I refer you to last week's
edition of _The Chronicle of Higher Education_ for the story of Harold
Overton. Or to the lament in the letters column the week previous.
Alas, these tales are not anomalies.
And what the hell's wrong with wine tasting anyway?
--
"I never understood people who don't have
bookshelves." --George Plimpton
Joann Zimmerman jz...@bellereti.com
smw
swum wrote:
>
...
> They typically make two to four times as much as the average self-sufficient
> wage earning adult.
Two or four? Four would put the average self-sufficient adult under the
poverty line.
s.
Francis Muir
krazy kat wrote:
>
> In article <Zx_X4.11$6r4....@news.callamer.com>, non@n.n says...
> > Perhaps you're
> > all middle aged, too - ugghh!
> >
> >
> Well, not everybody can be 12 years of age (as you seem to be, judging
> from the tone of these totally pointless, off topic rants).
You'll have to forgive Margaret; puberty is always an awkward time for a girl.
swum
tejas wrote in message <393132...@richmond.infi.net>...
>
>Hell, my teenaged kids can trash me in more creative ways than "swum"
>does. They'll at least riff on a different theme each time, but I've
>been hearing "swum's" rant for over 30 years. I wonder who writes
>its material.
Glad to hear your kids despise you, as conservatives usually are.
>It isn't even as up-to-date as RAGE AGAINST THE PARENT'S
>MACHINE which is pretty pedestrian, anyhoo.
My goodness you're uptight. What on Earth is 'rage against the parent's
machine?' You are soooo sad...
swum
Joann Zimmerman wrote in message ...>> You conservative horses' asses need someone to wake you up. Perhaps
you're
>> all middle aged, too - ugghh!
>
>you're over the hill. And you didn't do thing one to deserve it, except
>exist at one second per second for a given number of seconds.
You don't have to be so damn conservative, though.
>As to academics making too much money, I refer you to last week's
>edition of _The Chronicle of Higher Education_
Listen, I'm on the side of Leftist academics, it's clueless middle-aged
dullards like you that give me the creeps.
>And what the hell's wrong with wine tasting anyway?
And you aren't bourgeois? Bah! Sure, commodify your tastes to the millionth
of an inch while people are starving. Moron.
swum
krazy kat wrote in message ...
>In article <8gptft$srk$1...@news.sysnet.net.tw>, SHaz...@newton.comp.net
>says...
>> Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
>> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
>> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made.
>>
>members to the wall? Changing it into a moderated group where you will
>act as Big Brother? Exiling some of the "members"? Changing the name
>into rec.arts.endless-discussions-about-society-and-the-division-of-
>wealth-rather-than-about-literature? What does your rant have to do with
>the original post?
>
>Francis Muir posted a message about Jane Austen, and about Kipling's
>story about Austenites. swum answered with some off topic remark having
>nothing to do with books, and contributing nothing to a discussion of
>either Austen or Kipling's story. Unfortunately, some people chose to
>take the message seriously, so that there are now more replies to this
>OT post than to the original one. I now do the same (I ought to be shot
>for this).
>
>For a self-declared radical, you sound pretty pathetic. If you'd like to
>talk about books, talk about books. If the topic of a particular thread
>doesn't interest you (e.g. because Austen is a white establishment
>author who cannot possibly have anything of relevance to say about the
>world that 90% of the world population inhabits right now -- if that's
>your view) -- fine. Just ignore the thread and start one of your own
>about a book that you do like.
I find it interesting that in a group where feminism is treated with disdain
there would be this libertarian attitude "start one of your own threads". I
have read Elizabeth and Margaret's articles in various "threads" and it is
striking to see how intolerant these rec.arts.books regulars are, the way
they gang up upon those who do not share their particular orthodoxies. I
hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
whine and mock them.
swum
Richard Harter
You're so cute when you're being patronizing.
ObBook: _Why So Slow_
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net, The Concord Research Institute
URL = http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, phone = 1-978-369-3911
London was like a beautifully dressed woman with dirty underwear.
-- Mary Brown, _Dragonne's EG_
smw
swum wrote:
...
> I find it interesting that in a group where feminism is treated with disdain
> there would be this libertarian attitude "start one of your own threads". I
> have read Elizabeth and Margaret's articles in various "threads" and it is
> striking to see how intolerant these rec.arts.books regulars are, the way
> they gang up upon those who do not share their particular orthodoxies. I
> hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> whine and mock them.
This scenario reminds me of the chapter in _Harry Potter and the Chamber
of Secrets_ where Gilderoy Lockheart hires a drove of surly dwarves to
deliver valentines.
s.
Heather Henderson
>
> tejas wrote in message <393132...@richmond.infi.net>...
> >
> >Hell, my teenaged kids can trash me in more creative ways than "swum"
> >does. They'll at least riff on a different theme each time, but I've
> >been hearing "swum's" rant for over 30 years. I wonder who writes
> >its material.
>
> Glad to hear your kids despise you, as conservatives usually are.
So you're a conservative.
Ron Hardin
> they gang up upon those who do not share their particular orthodoxies. I
> hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> whine and mock them.
I'd make people define their terms. That was popular at the U of Chicago
in the 50s.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Heather Henderson
> I find it interesting that in a group where feminism is treated with disdain
Bwa ha ha ha ha!
> there would be this libertarian attitude "start one of your own threads".
Well, it would be nice if, for example, you volunteered your opinion on
Jane Austen. She was a woomyn writer, you know.
> I
> have read Elizabeth and Margaret's articles in various "threads" and it is
> striking to see how intolerant these rec.arts.books regulars are, the way
> they gang up upon those who do not share their particular orthodoxies. I
> hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> start challenging your assumptions
How can one tell if one is a feminist or a Feminist?
smw
swum wrote:
>
> tejas wrote in message <393132...@richmond.infi.net>...
> >
> >Hell, my teenaged kids can trash me in more creative ways than "swum"
> >does. They'll at least riff on a different theme each time, but I've
> >been hearing "swum's" rant for over 30 years. I wonder who writes
> >its material.
>
> Glad to hear your kids despise you, as conservatives usually are.
Conservatives are usually glad to hear that Ted's kids despise him? I
gotta pick up a _Weekly Standard_ more often.
Silke
LaChandra Marleen Johnson
that's what they like so say, "priviledged", these folks don't
understand the plite of the working class, the middle class even that's
now the poor, too. They live in a bubble. They like to get screwed. All
there preening about the books they've read and the oh, so cutesy
restaurants they visit, and all that bullshit, they make me sick. Far as
I can see, there's Mr. Texas, a guy I like and not just becuz I'm a
fellow Texan, he tells it like it is, he knows life, but then most
others are a pain in the derriere, no less. So the internet is a soapbox
for these bored and boring assholes, people with no talent and no life
in them. All they can do is sit in front of their screens being oh so
smart ass when they know nothing, really sick, all of it, sick!
So keep'em coming, sister!
LaChandra
Margaret
Fiona Webster wrote in message ...
>Margaret writes:
>> I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
>> 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
feminism,
>> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
that
>> literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
>> priviledged and conventional.
>
>even more of a hoot than Alice "I don't DO library books" Liesman.
>
> --Fiona
>
>Old Slogan: "I'm a liberal, deal with it."
>
>New slogan: "The day you take away my trashy horror books is the
>day when you pry them out of my dead white middle-aged hands."
How very, very sad. Charlton Heston says that about his guns.
Margaret
Heather Henderson wrote in message ...
>> 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
>> something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards
feminism,
>> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
>> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time
that
>> literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
>> priviledged and conventional.
>>
>>
>> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
>
>troll.
I have been involved in Women's committees, marches, Labor activism, Civil
Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and gays,
environmental demonstrations. What have you ever done, Heather, except be
dull, reach middle age in your thirties, and make fun of feminists?
Coward.
Margaret
swum wrote in message ...
>
>I
>hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
>whine and mock them.
Thanks for the support. I believe more Women will start posting in this
white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the Internet
works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the same words when
employing the search engines will thus come across your posting. So that if
you use the name of a feminist theorist or writer in your post, it will be
found by more Women.
We'll get this group going!
swum
comfortable for too long.
I'm white, as I've gathered Margaret and Sarah Beethoven and et al are, so
there seems to be some real Empathy and solidarity working here. Why does
"fiona" and "heather" and "tejas" and these other conservative dimwits
insist upon trying to prevent other Voices from offering their opinions
(instead of just correcting their grammar)???
Probably because they are afraid, afraid to hear any other points of view:
how sad.
swum
LaChandra Marleen Johnson wrote in message <393182...@morituri.com>...
Phyllis Chamberlain
LaChandra Marleen Johnson wrote in message <393182...@morituri.com>...
>Way to go, sister! Yeah, these white priviledged academic folks, yeah,
>that's what they like so say, "priviledged", these folks don't
>understand the plite of the working class, the middle class even that's
>now the poor, too. They live in a bubble. They like to get screwed. All
>there preening about the books they've read and the oh, so cutesy
>restaurants they visit, and all that bullshit, they make me sick. Far as
>I can see, there's Mr. Texas, a guy I like and not just becuz I'm a
>fellow Texan, he tells it like it is, he knows life, but then most
>others are a pain in the derriere, no less. So the internet is a soapbox
>for these bored and boring assholes, people with no talent and no life
>in them. All they can do is sit in front of their screens being oh so
>smart ass when they know nothing, really sick, all of it, sick!
Geez, I think somebody forgot to close the screen door.
Phyllis Chamberlain
krazy kat
> Probably because they are afraid, afraid to hear any other points of view:
> how sad.
>
particular? I have yet to hear you give one.
krazy kat
says...
football hooligan saying "I don't like them Turks in this pub talking
about things Turkish, let's round up some guys and beat the shit out
those Turks."
I have yet to hear you say one word about Austen in a thread that was
meant to discuss Austen. What do you think about Austen?
David E. Latane
On Sun, 28 May 2000, Fiona Webster wrote:
> Margaret writes:
> > I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
> > 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
> > something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
> > diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> > orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time that
> > literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
> > priviledged and conventional.
>
> Wow! Are you for real, Margaret? If so, please stay around. You're
> even more of a hoot than Alice "I don't DO library books" Liesman.
>
But more insulting. I mean, leaving me off the list, Sheesh.
D. Latane
ObAppendix: to Sartor Resartus in the first English book edition.
tejas
>
> swum wrote in message ...
> >
> >I
> >hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> >start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> >whine and mock them.
>
> Thanks for the support. I believe more Women will start posting in this
> white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the Internet
> works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the same words when
> employing the search engines will thus come across your posting. So that if
> you use the name of a feminist theorist or writer in your post, it will be
> found by more Women.
>
> We'll get this group going!
Good. I'll quit bringing baked goods. It's your turn now.
tejas
>
> swum wrote:
> ...
>
> > I find it interesting that in a group where feminism is treated with disdain
> > have read Elizabeth and Margaret's articles in various "threads" and it is
> > striking to see how intolerant these rec.arts.books regulars are, the way
> > hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> > start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> > whine and mock them.
>
> of Secrets_ where Gilderoy Lockheart hires a drove of surly dwarves to
> deliver valentines.
And there's nothing more surly than a dwarf, except.....
tejas
>
> In article <8gru53$9fv$1...@news.sysnet.net.tw>, SHaz...@newton.comp.net
> says...
> >
> > >
> > >hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> > >start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> > >whine and mock them.
> >
> >
> > white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the Internet
> > works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the same words when
> > employing the search engines will thus come across your posting. So that if
> > you use the name of a feminist theorist or writer in your post, it will be
> > found by more Women.
> >
> > We'll get this group going!
> >
> football hooligan saying "I don't like them Turks in this pub talking
> about things Turkish, let's round up some guys and beat the shit out
> those Turks."
Is this because Heather publicly announced that she's a "breeder",
and you're her old school chums?
Great prank.
Paul M. Johnson
news:8gru53$9fv$1...@news.sysnet.net.tw...
>
> swum wrote in message ...
> >
> >I
> >hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> >start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> >whine and mock them.
>
>
> Thanks for the support. I believe more Women will start posting in this
> white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the Internet
> works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the same words
when
> employing the search engines will thus come across your posting. So that
if
> you use the name of a feminist theorist or writer in your post, it will be
> found by more Women.
>
> We'll get this group going!
As a usually lurking woman, I just feel that I have to say something
here. Normally, I would be hesitant to speak out in this forum, since
I have been mocked and humiliated on more than one occasion.
Your efforts are making a difference, believe me. I believe we are
very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't give up.
Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
Pauline J.
> Margaret
>
> ObBook: "Our Bodies, Our Cells"
tejas
>
> tejas wrote in message <393132...@richmond.infi.net>...
> >
> >Hell, my teenaged kids can trash me in more creative ways than "swum"
> >does. They'll at least riff on a different theme each time, but I've
> >been hearing "swum's" rant for over 30 years. I wonder who writes
> >its material.
>
> Glad to hear your kids despise you, as conservatives usually are.
Oh, they don't. My son and I play rock and blues together and
for the most part, we get along fine.
>
> >It isn't even as up-to-date as RAGE AGAINST THE PARENT'S
> >MACHINE which is pretty pedestrian, anyhoo.
>
> My goodness you're uptight. What on Earth is 'rage against the parent's
> machine?' You are soooo sad...
I'm gonna send you a SENDERO LEGUMINOSO AND THE FUJIMORIS CD.
Whut's yer address? Bet you have 8x10 glossies of THE DERRIDOUGHNUTS
on your wall.
tejas
>
> Fiona Webster wrote in message ...
> >> I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
> >> 'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
> >> something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards
> feminism,
> >> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> >> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time
> that
> >> literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
> >> priviledged and conventional.
> >
> >Wow! Are you for real, Margaret? If so, please stay around. You're
> >even more of a hoot than Alice "I don't DO library books" Liesman.
> >
> >
> >Old Slogan: "I'm a liberal, deal with it."
> >
> >New slogan: "The day you take away my trashy horror books is the
> >day when you pry them out of my dead white middle-aged hands."
>
> How very, very sad. Charlton Heston says that about his guns.
Your guns, too. He's a liberal of the old school. He was one-a
them-there Hollywood pinko liberals like Marlon Brando and Paul
Newman and Audrey Hepburn usw. who stood with the ungodly forces
of race-mixing and miscegenation.
ObFlick: SOYLENT GREEN
swum
swum
Paul M. Johnson wrote in message ...
swum
sounds, because otherwise their voices are prevented from being heard.
Figures you'd have a problem with that....
smw wrote in message <39319B53...@umich.edu>...
>
>
>What she really meant to say was, "my husband won't let me have my own
>account so that's why it say's 'Paul' in the header, just in case you
>were wondering"
>
>Helpfully,
>
>s.
smw
swum wrote:
>
> Some Women have been forced to use a male pseudonym, unpleasant as that
> sounds, because otherwise their voices are prevented from being heard.
> Figures you'd have a problem with that....
This is fun.
s.
Michael Zeleny
>swum wrote in message ...
>>I hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads"
>>and start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't
>>simply whine and mock them.
>Thanks for the support. I believe more Women will start posting in this
>white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the Internet
>works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the same words
>when employing the search engines will thus come across your posting.
>So that if you use the name of a feminist theorist or writer in your
>post, it will be found by more Women.
>
>We'll get this group going!
>
>Margaret
>
>"I'm a radical, deal with it."
In a novel twist on the plot of ten thousand monkeys at typewriters,
somebody was bound to come along making Kagalenko smell like a swami.
Cordially -- Mikhail Zel...@math.ucla.edu * M...@ptyx.com ** www.ptyx.com
God: "Sum id quod sum." ** 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046
Descartes: "Cogito ergo sum." * 323.876.8234 (fon) * 323.876.8054 (fax)
Popeye: "Sum id quod sum et id totum est quod sum." ****** ICQ 25259231
established on 2.26.1958 ** itinerant philosopher * will think for food
Pauline M. Johnson
>
>
> "Paul M. Johnson" wrote:
> ...
>
> > As a usually lurking woman, I just feel that I have to say something
> > here. Normally, I would be hesitant to speak out in this forum, since
> > I have been mocked and humiliated on more than one occasion.
> >
> > Your efforts are making a difference, believe me. I believe we are
> > very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't give up.
> > Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
> >
> > Pauline J.
>
> account so that's why it say's 'Paul' in the header, just in case you
> were wondering"
>
> Helpfully,
>
> s.
For your information, I was driven to "modify" my name in the header
some years ago as a way to try to minimize the herassment to which
I was subjected on the net. But I am starting to feel stronger now,
and will try again to speak as myself and for myself.
For how long have you been in the employ of the forces of reaction?
How much did you get to sell out your sisters, while cavorting and
cooing and making goo-goo eyes at their dominators? I want to
retch.
Pauline J.
David J. Fiander
Indoor vs outdoor plumbing?
If one starts with the definition that "feminists" are those that
believe that women should be given a) the same opportunities and
men and b) the choice to do as they wish (sort of a more general
version of (a), I'll admit), then I am a feminist.
Of course, since I have a penis, swum will find this highly
amusing and lash into me as into all the others.
I bet she thinks women that choose to stay at home to raise
children aren't Feminists.
- David
--
David J. Fiander | What's past is prologue
Incipient Librarian | - The Tempest, Wm. Shakespeare
David J. Fiander
> Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and gays,
Apparently white middle-class men are ok, as long as they don't
want to sleep with Margaret.
- David, biting his tongue
Marg Petersen
David J. Fiander <djfi...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>hea...@scc.net (Heather Henderson) writes:
>>
>> How can one tell if one is a feminist or a Feminist?
>>
>
>Indoor vs outdoor plumbing?
>
>If one starts with the definition that "feminists" are those that
>believe that women should be given a) the same opportunities and
>men and b) the choice to do as they wish (sort of a more general
>version of (a), I'll admit), then I am a feminist.
>
>Of course, since I have a penis, swum will find this highly
>amusing and lash into me as into all the others.
>
>I bet she thinks women that choose to stay at home to raise
>children aren't Feminists.
More than likely and she would be wrong, IMO.
>- David
>David J. Fiander | What's past is prologue
>Incipient Librarian | - The Tempest, Wm. Shakespeare
>
Marg
--
The Quest is everything!
Heather Henderson
ph...@earthlink.net says...
It's a hoot, isn't it? I'm kind of tickled to be called a
"conservative". I'll have to start brushing up on my Wm. F. Buckley
imitation.
--
Heather Henderson
hea...@scc.net
http://scc.net/~heather
swum
smw wrote in message <3931B539...@umich.edu>...
>of it every year in the US alone, I do find your remark slightly
>insensitive. I do understand, of course, that the many years you were
>forced to live under the oppressor's name will have in subtle ways
>contaminated your consciousness in the same way in which countless women
>have been demeaned by being forced to carry the surnames of their
>"fathers" and "husbands."
> "Cavorting," "cooing" and "making goo-goo eyes," for instance, is
>typical male vocabulary, and to refer to vicious power struggles (often
>to the death) with the belittling term 'domination' is something you
>want to change your assumptions about.
So a thorough-going horse's ass like smw thinks he's being funny by talking
like that; what else is new??
swum
Heather Henderson wrote in message ...
You've already got it down pat, why brush up on it? Better yet, why not wake
up??
swum
swum
David J. Fiander wrote in message
<87itvy4...@HSE-Kitchener-ppp84902.sympatico.ca>...
>"Margaret" <SHaz...@newton.comp.net> writes:
>
>> Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and gays,
>
>Apparently white middle-class men are ok, as long as they don't
>want to sleep with Margaret.
>
>- David, biting his tongue
Try biting a good deal harder.
swum
Francis Muir
tejas wrote:
>
> smw wrote:
> >
> > swum wrote:
> > >
> > > Some Women have been forced to use a male pseudonym, unpleasant as that
> > > sounds, because otherwise their voices are prevented from being heard.
> > > Figures you'd have a problem with that....
> >
> > This is fun.
>
> Maybe. One of these new young trolls thinks I'm a woman because
> I use my initials on this account. And I've not been considered
> "conservative" since 1964.
Hey, I've not been told I'm middle-aged since 1964.
paschal
On Sun, 28 May 2000, Margaret wrote:
> How very, very sad. Charlton Heston says that about his guns.
And he looked pretty darn cool, when he said it.
-P. "I'm sensible, deal with it."
Pauline M. Johnson
news:vIiY4.15$Wg5....@news.callamer.com...
Cheese it, kids! The jig is up.
I was the cat's meow last post. For one shining moment, swum, you liked
me; you really liked me. But that sweet backside I shall never more see,
tiralee, tiralaa.
Paul J.
Margaret
David J. Fiander wrote in message
>
>Of course, since I have a penis, swum will find this highly
>amusing and lash into me as into all the others.
That is so vile and despicable, no one cares which appendages your no doubt
pathetic body happens to sport. I really doubt any intelligent person would
find your obnoxiousness and anti-feminism amusing.
Margaret
Marcy Thompson wrote in message
<2JkY4.11959$LM4.8...@monger.newsread.com>...
>Margaret had said:
>
>>>> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
>
>
>>>Sorry honey, but you're not a radical - you're just an unusually whiny
>>>troll.
>
>Margaret trots out her so-called radical credentials:
>
>>I have been involved in Women's committees, marches, Labor activism, Civil
>>Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and gays,
>>dull, reach middle age in your thirties, and make fun of feminists?
>>
>>Coward.
>
>What have you done that made a positive difference in a single person's
>life? Demonstrations are a great way to make you feel like you are
>changing the world. Real change is harder, requires sustained effort,
>and is often invisible. It also requires real courage because it insists
>that you walk away from the safety of the crowd and do something all
>by yourself.
>
>ObBook: Beyond the Whiteness of Whiteness
>
>Marcy
>
>P.S. Deriding people for being "middle aged", which they are only
>bacause of the age they happen to have attained, is agist. No one
>who thinks that the young have an exclusive hold on the truth is
>radical. Just young and foolish.
I feel a great deal of solidarity and admiration (mutual) for those Women
who happen to be older than me and who have challenged the assumptions of
eurocentric patriarchal bullshit. As for your offensive lecture as to what
constitutes political action, being a little mouse isn't a good way to
change things.
jeesh
swum
Pauline M. Johnson wrote in message <6nmY4.53$Ks2....@news01.micron.net>...
Paul, you are beyond stupid.
swum
Milton Jay Perlmuter wrote in message <3931F9...@perlmuter.com>...
>
<snip whatever>
Who was that was trying to sound like WFBuckley? Pretty sad that you can't
even manage that....
swum
krazy kat
>
> krazy kat wrote in message ...
> >In article <8gptft$srk$1...@news.sysnet.net.tw>, SHaz...@newton.comp.net
> >says...
> >> Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
> >> diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
> >> orthodoxy, this group needs some serious changes made.
> >>
> >members to the wall? Changing it into a moderated group where you will
> >act as Big Brother? Exiling some of the "members"? Changing the name
> >into rec.arts.endless-discussions-about-society-and-the-division-of-
> >wealth-rather-than-about-literature? What does your rant have to do with
> >the original post?
> >
> >Francis Muir posted a message about Jane Austen, and about Kipling's
> >story about Austenites. swum answered with some off topic remark having
> >nothing to do with books, and contributing nothing to a discussion of
> >either Austen or Kipling's story. Unfortunately, some people chose to
> >take the message seriously, so that there are now more replies to this
> >OT post than to the original one. I now do the same (I ought to be shot
> >for this).
> >
> >For a self-declared radical, you sound pretty pathetic. If you'd like to
> >talk about books, talk about books. If the topic of a particular thread
> >doesn't interest you (e.g. because Austen is a white establishment
> >author who cannot possibly have anything of relevance to say about the
> >world that 90% of the world population inhabits right now -- if that's
> >your view) -- fine. Just ignore the thread and start one of your own
> >about a book that you do like.
>
>
> I find it interesting that in a group where feminism is treated with disdain
> there would be this libertarian attitude "start one of your own threads". I
> have read Elizabeth and Margaret's articles in various "threads" and it is
> striking to see how intolerant these rec.arts.books regulars are, the way
> they gang up upon those who do not share their particular orthodoxies. I
> hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> whine and mock them.
>
>
Who's whining? Do you ever stop to think before you start typing and
send off your posts? You contribute nothing to the topic at hand.
Give me some remarks about Austen and we can discuss further.
--
Frank Lekens
operamail.com is where it's really @
krazy kat
says...
>
> swum wrote in message ...
> >
> >hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
> >start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
> >whine and mock them.
>
>
> white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the Internet
> works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the same words when
> employing the search engines will thus come across your posting. So that if
> you use the name of a feminist theorist or writer in your post, it will be
> found by more Women.
>
> We'll get this group going!
>
football hooligan saying "I don't like them Turks in this pub talking
about things Turkish, let's round up some guys and beat the shit out
those Turks."
I have yet to hear you say one word about Austen in a thread that was
meant to discuss Austen. What do you think about Austen?
jcoal...@my-deja.com
"Margaret" <SHaz...@newton.comp.net> wrote:
>
> swum wrote in message ...
> >
> >I
> >hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads"
> >and start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you
> >can't simply whine and mock them.
>
> Thanks for the support. I believe more Women will start posting in
> this white male dominated group. My friend, who understands how the
> Internet works says that by using 'key words' that people who use the
> same words when employing the search engines will thus come across
> your posting. So that if you use the name of a feminist theorist or
> writer in your post, it will be
> found by more Women.
>
> We'll get this group going!
>
> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
I'm confused.
jimC
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
jcoal...@my-deja.com
[Dammit all to heck ...]
> I have yet to hear you say one word about Austen in a thread that was
> meant to discuss Austen. What do you think about Austen?
It's an interesting city. Surprisingly modern, not at all gothic like
slightly younger middle-America towns with their courthouse squares.
jcoal...@my-deja.com
"Margaret" <SHaz...@newton.comp.net> wrote:
>
> Fiona Webster wrote in message ...
> >Old Slogan: "I'm a liberal, deal with it."
> >
> >New slogan: "The day you take away my trashy horror books is the
> >day when you pry them out of my dead white middle-aged hands."
>
> How very, very sad. Charlton Heston says that about his guns.
Yeah, but subtlety isn't lost on Charlie. It's just completely
wasted.
jcoal...@my-deja.com
"Paul M. Johnson" <aug...@micron.net> wrote:
> Your efforts are making a difference, believe me. I believe we are
> very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't give up.
> Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
Are we going nukeyler?
Please make up your damned fool mind whether you're Paul or Pauline.
Richard Harter
>
>
>swum wrote:
>>
>> smw wrote in message <3931B539...@umich.edu>...
>> >
>> >
>> >"Pauline M. Johnson" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "smw" <sm...@umich.edu> wrote in message
>> news:39319B53...@umich.edu...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Paul M. Johnson" wrote:
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >> > > As a usually lurking woman, I just feel that I have to say something
>> >> > > here. Normally, I would be hesitant to speak out in this forum,
>> since
>> >> > > I have been mocked and humiliated on more than one occasion.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Your efforts are making a difference, believe me. I believe we are
>> >> > > very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't give up.
>> >> > > Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
>> >> > >
>You're hurting my feelings.
So? You white, male eurotrash types don't have real feelings; you have
domination deprivation syndrome.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net, The Concord Research Institute
URL = http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, phone = 1-978-369-3911
London was like a beautifully dressed woman with dirty underwear.
-- Mary Brown, _Dragonne's EG_
Michael Kagalenko
]I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
]'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
]something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
]diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
]literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
]priviledged and conventional.
Dr. Perlmuter, where are you ?
Michael Kagalenko
]
]
]I find it interesting that in a group where feminism is treated with disdain
]there would be this libertarian attitude "start one of your own threads". I
]have read Elizabeth and Margaret's articles in various "threads" and it is
]striking to see how intolerant these rec.arts.books regulars are, the way
]hope more women, more Feminists join this group and these "threads" and
]start challenging your assumptions, and in numbers where you can't simply
]whine and mock them.
_________________________________________________
/ \
| THE OFFICIAL USENET TROLL-O-METER |
| |
| 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 |
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |
| |
| |
\ /
-----------------------------------------------
Not a bad job, "Margaret"
Marcy Thompson
>>> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
Heather responded:
>>Sorry honey, but you're not a radical - you're just an unusually whiny
>>troll.
Margaret trots out her so-called radical credentials:
>I have been involved in Women's committees, marches, Labor activism, Civil
>Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and gays,
>environmental demonstrations. What have you ever done, Heather, except be
>dull, reach middle age in your thirties, and make fun of feminists?
>
>Coward.
What have you done that made a positive difference in a single person's
life? Demonstrations are a great way to make you feel like you are
changing the world. Real change is harder, requires sustained effort,
and is often invisible. It also requires real courage because it insists
that you walk away from the safety of the crowd and do something all
by yourself.
ObBook: Beyond the Whiteness of Whiteness
Marcy
P.S. Deriding people for being "middle aged", which they are only
bacause of the age they happen to have attained, is agist. No one
who thinks that the young have an exclusive hold on the truth is
radical. Just young and foolish.
--
Marcy Thompson
ma...@squirrel.com
Milton Jay Perlmuter
As poorly-qualified as I am to fight scurrility and slander, I hope you
will bear with me while I begin this sincere and earnest attempt.
And please don't get mad with me if, in doing so, I must seek some
structure in which the cacophony introduced by Miss Shanina
"Cunty" Swum's beliefs might be systematized, reconciled, and made
rational. Let's review the errors in Miss Swum's statements in
order. First, I find Miss Swum's slurs symptomatic of a dangerous but
spreading mentality. Why does parasitism exist? What causes it?
What is it about our society that makes ignominious politicos like Miss
Swum desire to shred the basic compact between the people and
their government?
I have given this issue a great deal of thought, and I now have a strong
conviction that she ignores a breathtaking number of facts, most
notably:
Fact: She reminds me of the thief who cries "Stop, thief!" to distract
attention from his thievery.
Fact: Her central role in the promotion of irritating credentialism
dates back a number of years.
Fact: Many recent controversies have been fueled by a whole-hearted
embracing of unruly hideous vituperations.
In addition, she is not a responsible citizen. Responsible citizens cast
a gimlet eye on Miss Swum's pranks. Responsible citizens
indubitably do not promote racial superiority doctrines, ethnic
persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide. There is no longer any
room for hope. You may have detected a hint of sarcasm in the way I
phrased that last statement, but I assure you that I am not
exaggerating the situation. Life isn't fair. We've all known this since
the beginning of time, so why is Miss Swum so compelled to
complain about situations over which she has no control?
Is anyone else out there as struck as I am by her utter disregard for
morality and humanity? Astute observers have known for years that it
has been brought to my attention that crass provocateurs are unable to
see that sometimes, what you don't know can hurt you. While
this is true, she is a pretty good liar most of the time. However, she
tells so many lies, she's bound to trip herself up someday. Well,
Miss Swum, we're all getting a little tired of you and your kind messing
up the world and then refusing to accept responsibility for what
you've done. We're fed up. And the day is coming when you'll be held
accountable for your illiterate refrains. In closing, all that I ask is
that you join me to stop Miss Shanina "Cunty" Swum and make plans and
carry them out.
Sincerely,
Milton Jay Perlmuter
Heather Henderson
says...
> I feel a great deal of solidarity and admiration (mutual) for those Women
> who happen to be older than me and who have challenged the assumptions of
> eurocentric patriarchal bullshit. As for your offensive lecture as to what
> constitutes political action, being a little mouse isn't a good way to
> change things.
It's a lame Freedom Fighter who can't even pick the right enemies, much
less the right battles.
Jac.m.a.m. Oppers
>kraz...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
>[Dammit all to heck ...]
>
>> I have yet to hear you say one word about Austen in a thread that was
>> meant to discuss Austen. What do you think about Austen?
>
>It's an interesting city. Surprisingly modern, not at all gothic like
>slightly younger middle-America towns with their courthouse squares.
>
>jimC
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
(... Dutch test-message ...)
Guus, kom naar huus want de koeien staan op springen, de verkens
moeten vreten, en het hooi moet van het land ...
:-)
Jac.
jac.o...@philips.com (replaces j...@natlab.research.philips.com)
j.m.a.m.oppers@(hccnet|hccnet|chello).nl
tejas
>
> In article <sJgY4.37$Ks2....@news01.micron.net>,
> "Paul M. Johnson" <aug...@micron.net> wrote:
>
> > very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't give up.
> > Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
>
>
> Please make up your damned fool mind whether you're Paul or Pauline.
ObFlick: GLEN OR GLENDA?
--
TBSa...@richmond.infi.net (also te...@infi.net)
http://mh106.infi.net/~tejas/
'Do the boogie woogie in the South American way'
Hank Snow (1914-1999)
THE RHUMBA BOOGIE
Kevin McGee
Fiander) wrote:
>Of course, since I have a penis, swum will find this highly
>amusing and lash into me as into all the others.
It's possible for a feminist to have a penis, but it should be in a
jar.
-KM
Francis Muir
"Jac.m.a.m. Oppers" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 29 May 2000 01:11:17 GMT, jcoal...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >kraz...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> >
> >[Dammit all to heck ...]
> >
> >> I have yet to hear you say one word about Austen in a thread that was
> >> meant to discuss Austen. What do you think about Austen?
> >
> >It's an interesting city. Surprisingly modern, not at all gothic like
> >slightly younger middle-America towns with their courthouse squares.
> >
> >jimC
> >
> >
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.
>
> (... Dutch test-message ...)
>
> Guus, kom naar huus want de koeien staan op springen, de verkens
> moeten vreten, en het hooi moet van het land ...
>
> :-)
I wondered what Double Dutch looked like.
Francis Muir
Margaret signs off:
> "I'm a radical, deal with it."
A free radical? Do you live in the odium of being taken for Immodium?
Jac.m.a.m. Oppers
<fra...@stanford.edu> wrote:
>I wondered what Double Dutch looked like.
Different rithmic jumpings across two jump ropes, one clockwise and
the other one counter-clockwise, simultaneously. The gap has to be
large enough for one or more people to jump in and out.
ObReferenceWithPicture : http://www.gsgv.org/ddutch.html
Jac.
jac.o...@philips.com (replaces j...@natlab.research.philips.com)
j.m.a.m.oppers@(hccnet|hetnet|chello).nl
Michael S. Morris
Monday, the 30th of May, 2000
Silke:
Margaret, would you please challenge my
assumptions and say something radical?
My initial hypothesis is that Margaret is
a man.
Mike Morris
(msmo...@netdirect.net)
tejas
>
> Monday, the 30th of May, 2000
>
> Silke:
> Margaret, would you please challenge my
> assumptions and say something radical?
>
> My initial hypothesis is that Margaret is
> a man.
ObSong: A BOY NAMED SUE by Shel Silverstein and sung by Johnny Cash.
Heather Henderson
says...
> Michael S. Morris wrote:
> >
> > Monday, the 30th of May, 2000
> >
> > Silke:
> > Margaret, would you please challenge my
> > assumptions and say something radical?
> >
> > My initial hypothesis is that Margaret is
> > a man.
>
> ObSong: A BOY NAMED SUE by Shel Silverstein and sung by Johnny Cash.
"Margaret" is an invented character, that's certain.
It is the blight man was born for,
It is Margaret you mourn for.
larisa
>I have been involved in Women's committees, marches, Labor
activism, Civil
>Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and
gays,
>environmental demonstrations. What have you ever done, Heather,
except be
>dull, reach middle age in your thirties, and make fun of
feminists?
>
>Coward.
I am sure Heather will have a lot of interesting things to say in
response, but let me just add that chaining yourself to things,
carrying picket signs, and screaming political slogans might be a
fun thing to do in one's spare time, but definitely is not
anything to be too proud of. Nor does it count as "having done
something" to advance feminism.
Larisa
ObBook: Naomi Wolf, "Fire with Fire"
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
swum
larisa wrote in message <107ba88a...@usw-ex0105-038.remarq.com>...
>>
>>I have been involved in Women's committees, marches, Labor
>activism, Civil
>>Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and
>gays,
>>environmental demonstrations. What have you ever done, Heather,
>except be
>>dull, reach middle age in your thirties, and make fun of
>feminists?
>>
>>Coward.
>
>I am sure Heather will have a lot of interesting things to say in
>response, but let me just add that chaining yourself to things,
>carrying picket signs, and screaming political slogans might be a
>fun thing to do in one's spare time, but definitely is not
>anything to be too proud of. Nor does it count as "having done
>something" to advance feminism.
Being indifferent to feminism, as you are Larisa, might excuse your
inaction, as far as you are concerned. The rest of us are sick and tired of
oppression, abuse, RAPE, racism, and other cruelties. Thus we are active.
>ObBook: Naomi Wolf, "Fire with Fire"
I like how you and Heather are demonstrating that you own books by feminist
authors ("Naomi Wolf"). How deeply impressive that you would own a book and
also discourage political outrage. Very interesting. By the way, what does
"ObBook" mean?
swum
Ron Hardin
> Being indifferent to feminism, as you are Larisa, might excuse your
> inaction, as far as you are concerned. The rest of us are sick and tired of
> oppression, abuse, RAPE, racism, and other cruelties. Thus we are active.
Many of us are bored with oppression, abuse, RAPE, racism, and other
cruelties and have gone into dog training.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Paul M. Johnson
news:8gsh6l$gpf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <sJgY4.37$Ks2....@news01.micron.net>,
> "Paul M. Johnson" <aug...@micron.net> wrote:
>
> > Your efforts are making a difference, believe me. I believe we are
> > very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't give up.
> > Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
>
> Are we going nukeyler?
>
> Please make up your damned fool mind whether you're Paul or Pauline.
>
It's not that easy, now that I've gone and gotten in touch with
my squishy, feminine side. Needless to add, "excavation" (nor
any other metaphors from the construction industry) will not
be an option on the table.
Paul J.
"Proud to be a jcoalminer's dottir..."
Heather Henderson
larisaN...@geeklife.com.invalid says...
> >
> >I have been involved in Women's committees, marches, Labor
> activism, Civil
> >Rights demonstrations for many people including Lesbians and
> gays,
> >environmental demonstrations. What have you ever done, Heather,
> except be
> >dull, reach middle age in your thirties, and make fun of
> feminists?
> >
> >Coward.
>
> I am sure Heather will have a lot of interesting things to say in
> response
Nah. Shooting fish in a barrel.
Heather Henderson
> I like how you and Heather are demonstrating that you own books by feminist
> authors ("Naomi Wolf").
I don't own any books by Naomi Wolf.
swum
Heather Henderson wrote in message ...
>In article <wxCY4.7$Da6....@news.callamer.com>, non@n.n says...
>
>> I like how you and Heather are demonstrating that you own books by
feminist
>> authors ("Naomi Wolf").
>
>I don't own any books by Naomi Wolf.
Whatever. What does 'obBook' mean?
swum
Lewis Mammel
>
> "Paul M. Johnson" <aug...@micron.net> writes:
> >
> > It's not that easy, now that I've gone and gotten in touch with
> > my squishy, feminine side. Needless to add, "excavation" (nor
> >
>
> back. If you score poorly, I suggest signing up for their
> "sensitivity training" course.
>
> - David, proudly 2, even if the test doesn't really apply entirely
I hate to tell you this, but anybody who even takes that test
is automatically a fag - I mean come on! No Hockey ?
Sorry pal.
( Yes, looking is allowed. Those are the rules. )
Lew Mammel, Jr.
Margaret
threatening. So you wish them away, tell yourself that the person doesn't
even exist, huh? I know children do that sometimes, and it obviously is a
last recourse for bigots. How do you justify it?
Margaret (I'm very real, and more honest than thou)
Heather Henderson wrote in message ...
>In article <39328F...@richmond.infi.net>, tbsa...@richmond.infi.net
>says...
>> Michael S. Morris wrote:
>> >
>> > Monday, the 30th of May, 2000
>> >
>> > Silke:
>> > Margaret, would you please challenge my
>> > assumptions and say something radical?
>> >
>> > My initial hypothesis is that Margaret is
>> > a man.
>>
>> ObSong: A BOY NAMED SUE by Shel Silverstein and sung by Johnny Cash.
>
>"Margaret" is an invented character, that's certain.
>
> It is the blight man was born for,
> It is Margaret you mourn for.
>
swum
Paul M. Johnson wrote in message <8gv6fm$b9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <zInY4.23$Wg5....@news.callamer.com>,
> "swum" <non@n.n> wrote:
>>
>> Pauline M. Johnson wrote in message <6nmY4.53
>$Ks2....@news01.micron.net>...
>> >"swum" <non@n.n> wrote in message
>> >news:vIiY4.15$Wg5....@news.callamer.com...
>> >>
>> >> smw wrote in message <3931B539...@umich.edu>...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Pauline M. Johnson" wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "smw" <sm...@umich.edu> wrote in message
>> >> news:39319B53...@umich.edu...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Paul M. Johnson" wrote:
>> >> >> > ...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > As a usually lurking woman, I just feel that I have to say
>> >something
>> >> >> > > here. Normally, I would be hesitant to speak out in this
>forum,
>> >> since
>> >> >> > > I have been mocked and humiliated on more than one occasion.
>> >> >> > >
>believe we
>> are
>> >> >> > > very near to reaching critical mass, as long as we don't
>give up.
>> >> >> > > Solidarity can accomplish wonders.
>> >> >> > >
>> >
>> >I was the cat's meow last post. For one shining moment, swum, you
>liked
>> >me; you really liked me. But that sweet backside I shall never more
>see,
>> >tiralee, tiralaa.
>> >
>> >Paul J.
>>
>> Paul, you are beyond stupid.
>
>You mean I was taken in by the same feminist who also
>brazenly posts in the slow, 13-year-old boy manner, as in:
>
>*****************************************************
>In article <rame.959454008p1152@bash>,
> non@n.n [aka "swum"] wrote:
>> Ooo Fah! wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>I think she was real cute on
>>>her early Howard appearances, except for those balloons. Yikes.
>>
>> Another cute girl made unwatchable by those hideous implants and the
>> slightly retarded guys who find them attractive. It's not fair.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ** rec.arts.movies.erotica FAQ at http://www.rame.net/faq **
>> ** internet adult film database at http://www.iafd.com **
>
>***********************************************************
>
>Or shall we put this down to spilt personality?
>
>I unmask thee, harlequin!
Paul, far be it for me to point out how ironic it is that you would disguise
yourself as "Pauline" and then hang around a newsgroup that appears to be
devoted to pornography and other forms of Women-hating, in order to 'unmask'
me, but let me make clear to you your chilling, aberrant, and eager
stupidity once and for all. If you think I'm giving this rec arts books
group a lesson in Feminism, just watch this other rec arts movies erotica
group which you patronize, try to deal with me. I have no need to disguise
my identity in this group, especially since Sarah has joined it and others
will as well, but in a group full of white male garbage chatting about
exploiting Women's bodies, I was attempting to get in via subversion. I
suppose you will try to ruin it for me and warn your fellow
pornography-obsessed idiot friends, but I'll just have to learn how to get
around you.
Let me repeat, you are thoroughly and monstrously simple-minded. I do indeed
like 'Pauline' better, and I hope such a person someday emerges from your
wretched and cowardly self.
Die, Paul, die.
swum (not going anywhere, whatever you may wish).
billiam
swum wrote in message
OK, my question is, how did a newsgroup that is supposed to be about book
readin' become a stamping ground for subversive radical feminist crazies and
duo-gendered weirdos? What the heck does any of this have to do with
*reading*?
'swum', you aren't half as clever as you think you are, there have been
plenty of invasions of newsgroups by feminist trolls, this isn't anything
new, no matter how clever you think you are --and you don't even seem to
know how to pretend to be another person and screw-up your email.
Why not go back to parsing the semiotics of Barbie Dolls instead of
harrassing people that like to read.
Paul/line, there are places for your type as well, just ask Marv albert.
They typically consist of shady bars with an upstairs -- so I'm told.
I really think this is why feminism is best kept at the expensive
universities that spawned it -- nobody else gives a crap, and probably
especially the guys who are that much into porn, not to mention the breast
implants that you feminist weirdos are obsessed with. So leave the
books-people alone, will ya?
Bill (my real name, no -line necessary, nor am I a 13 year old boy, just a
white male middleclass reader) ;-)
Joan Marie Shields
>I can't believe how pathetic and desperate 'tejas', 'Marg Petersen',
>'Francis Muir', and other farts are in this group, trying so hard to say
>something witty and with-it. Given the intolerance shown towards feminism,
>diversity (are all these people white???), and ideas that challenge
>orthodoxy,
Three things:
1. We ain't all white - you have no idea how diverse posters to this
newsgroup are. We're very international here as well.
2. Literature isn't only in the hands of the few - I'm a proud supporter
and user of well-stocked and maintained free public libraries.
3. You have a narrow perspective and no sense of humor.
Last summer there was a very lively discussion about feminism - quite a
few different perspectives and opinions were revealed. Everything from
the extreme (in either direction) to various shades of moderate.
>this group needs some serious changes made. It's about time that
>literature is taken out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the
>priviledged and conventional.
And how do intend to make them without coming off as a facist?
Oh, and Francis Muir might be an old fart - but he's OUR old fart, so
keep your grubby little paws off him!
ObBooks: "The Very Inside", "Monitired Peril", "Leonardo's Bicycle" and
"James Beard's Theory and Practice of Good Cooking"
yiwf,
joan
--
Joan Shields jshi...@uci.edu http://www.ags.uci.edu/~jshields
University of California - Irvine School of Social Ecology
Department of Environmental Analysis and Design
I do not purchase services or products from unsolicited e-mail advertisements.
M-T
<<It's not that easy, now that I've gone and gotten in touch with
my squishy, feminine side. Needless to add, "excavation" (nor
any other metaphors from the construction industry) will not
be an option on the table.>>
How about simple post-selfcoital ablation?
Regs,
mt