Snake Names in Literature
Dan Crocker
must be some fairly famous ones (or infamous) but I can't seem to
recall any in particular. Wasn't there a Kipling story (novel??)
that dealt with cobras? Was this Riki Tiki Tavi?
Anyways, any other references would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Crocker cisco Systems, Inc.
dcro...@cisco.com P.O. Box 3075
voice: (415) 688-7706 1525 O'Brien Drive
fax: (415) 688-8282 Menlo Park, CA 94026
A.M.Mair
Dreamsnake by Vonda McIntyre.
And Kaa from The Jungle Book by Kipling(not sure of that spelling)
Ann
By learning and courtesy
Insanity's Mistress
> I'm searching for the names of snakes in literature. I'm sure there
> must be some fairly famous ones (or infamous) but I can't seem to
> recall any in particular. Wasn't there a Kipling story (novel??)
> that dealt with cobras? Was this Riki Tiki Tavi?
>
Rikki-Tikki-Tavi was a mongoose who killed cobras in a Kipling story of the
same name. The cobras, as far as I remember, were never named in the story.
OTOH, I'm pretty sure there was a named snake in _The Jungle Book_, but I
can't remember his name.
--Jane
Laura Johnson
: I'm searching for the names of snakes in literature. I'm sure there
: must be some fairly famous ones (or infamous) but I can't seem to
Wasn't The Worm Ourobourous (sp??) the great World Snake that swallows
his tail? Or something? Wasn't he some kind of literary snake? Can you
tell I'm groping here?
Emma Pease
>Dan Crocker writes:
Nag and Nagina were the snake couple in Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. Kaa was the
name of the major snake in the Mowgli stories. There is also an
elderly cobra in one of the Mowgli stories, the one that guarded
death.
In mythology there is the python at Delphi that Apollo killed and the
multiheaded hydra killed by Hercules.
Emma
net spinster
em...@csli.stanford.edu
Lisa Chabot
>
>> I'm searching for the names of snakes in literature. I'm sure there
>> must be some fairly famous ones (or infamous) but I can't seem to
>> recall any in particular.
Having recently obtained my very own copy of what is perhaps Aldous Huxley's
most widely read book, I'm afraid I must report that the snake in
_The_Crows_of_Pearblossom_ is disappointingly named "Mr. Snake".
--
"Work's not all beer and skittles."
Mark Taranto
> I'm searching for the names of snakes in literature. I'm sure there
> must be some fairly famous ones (or infamous) but I can't seem to
> recall any in particular.
Lucifer.
Mark
Barbara Hlavin
There's Kaa, from Kipling's _Jungle Books_.
--Barbara
Matthew Crosby
Kaa. And the snakes in the Jungle book are called nag+nagina
BTW, the same request applies to me. We are name our HP computers after
snakes, and are looking for some more names. I found lots of mythological
references, but very little in the way of literature.
While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
--
-Matt cro...@cs.colorado.edu
"Power corrupts; boycot electricity companies!"
Joann Zimmerman
(Matthew Crosby) wrote:
> While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
> librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
> librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
> about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
Casaubon. (From _Middlemarch_.) Scholar, actually, but on the theory of
mostly collecting tidbits and info and never putting it together, you might
say he was more of a librarian ...
--
"Books speak even when they stand unopened on the shelf. If you would
know a man or woman, look at their books, not their software."
--E. Annie Proulx
Joann Zimmerman jz...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Iain G Liddell
>
>While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
>librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
>librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
>about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
>
Well, there's Philip Larkin for one. Particularly appropriate if you
use [High] Windows.
Or you could call your server "Comstock", after the book server in
Orwell's "Keep the Aspidistra Flying".
Iain
Harsh Deshmane
For what its worth, in Indian mythology, there was a snake called
Kalia( i think), a multiheaded evil thing, who was killed by Krishna,
when Krishna was a little older than a toddler.
[I am sure of the story, but could be a leeeetle off the mark with the
snake's name:)]
-harsh deshmane
---------------------------------------------------------------------
my opinion's, not Intel Corp.'s
Mike Schilling
Gary Lee Stonum
>From: jz...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
>Subject: Re: Snake Names in Literature
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:47:51 -0600
>In article <CrGz2...@cnsnews.Colorado.EDU>, cro...@cs.colorado.edu
>(Matthew Crosby) wrote:
>> While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
>> librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
>> librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
>> about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
>Casaubon. (From _Middlemarch_.) Scholar, actually, but on the theory of
>mostly collecting tidbits and info and never putting it together, you might
>say he was more of a librarian ...
Or Borges, from Tlon's sister planet, who got to be Jorge of Burgos in _The
Nameof the Rose__
Stonum
Deirdre A. Johnson
Nag and Kala-Nag. The python in "The Jungle Book" is called
Kaa (that one I'm sure of!) The only other literary snake
that I can think of at the moment is a character in
Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wind at the Door." She's a good-sized
black racer called Louise the Larger, named for a Dr. Louise
Colubra.
Hope this helps!
--
the octopus s secret wish / is not to be a formal fish /
he dreams that sometime he may grow / another set of legs or so/
and be a broadway music show -archy|
-----------------------------------| (da...@Virginia.edu) -deirdre
Khalid Rahmat
words used for a male and female cobra in Hindi/Urdu and not really
proper names. I think Kipling uses this trick for a few other
animals: Baloo means bear, Akela means alone.
D.H. Lawrence has a poem about an Italian snake but I don't
recall him giving the snake a name.
--- Khalid
rah...@athena.mit.edu
John Gersh
Emma Pease and Matthew Crosby identified Rikki-Tikki-Tavi's antagonists as
Nag and Nagina. Nag's wife's name was actually Nagaina.
Matthew Crosby also writes, in article <CrGz2...@cnsnews.Colorado.EDU>,
> While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
> librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
> librarian might be appriate
It's too bad that the librarian in Bertrand Russell's famous dream was
unnamed.
Would names of _libraries_ be equally appropriate here? Alexandria?
Bodleian? Carnegie?
=== John R. Gersh John_...@aplmail.jhuapl.edu
=== The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
=== Laurel, MD 20723 +1(301)953-5503
Joe Talmadge
> Nag and Nagina are a bit of a special case as they are just the
> words used for a male and female cobra in Hindi/Urdu and not really
> proper names. I think Kipling uses this trick for a few other
> animals: Baloo means bear, Akela means alone.
Really? Do you know what "sherekhan" means? I named my cat after
that character, and I've been wondering if it means "eat my shorts" or
something in Hindi.
Joe
Sanjiva Prasad
Vishnu, the preserver/protector in Indian mythology, sleeps on a snake
various called Ananthanaaga, Shesha-. Naaga is Sanskr.t for cobra,
usually the King Cobra (but sometimes used for other snakes as well).
Kipling used this name in his short story about the mongoose
Rikki-Tiki-Tavi.
Kaalinga is the snake the infant Kr.shn.a killed.
Regards,
-S.
--
Sanjiva Prasad, Magus E-mail: san...@ecrc.de
European Computer Industry Research Centre Off: +49 89 92 69 91 58
Arabellastrasse 17 Fax: +49 89 92 69 91 70
81925 Muenchen, Germany Res: +49 89 16 33 59
Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet
>Dan Crocker writes:
The cobras in "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" are called Nag and Nagaina, which
I believe just mean snake and, if you will, snakess.
The python in THE JUNGLE BOOK is Kaa. One of my favorite characters.
roger m squires
Crichton's _Sphere_ says that:
Many poisonous snakes are alternately aggressive and
passive in twelve-hour cycles, corresponding to day
and night. During the day, when they're passive,
you can handle them and they will never bite. For
example, in India, the highly poisonous banded krait
has never been known to bite during the day, even
when children play with them. ....
But this is precisely the scenario presented in Kipling with Karait.
So who's right?
rms
Pat Hanby
> While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
> librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
> librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
> about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
What about Philip Larkin? He was Librarian of the University of Leeds,
England, as well as being a major poet.
And back to snakes, has anyone suggested Keats' Lamia?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Pat Hanby Book Orders Librarian Reading University Library
PO Box 223 Whiteknights READING RG6 2AE UK
vlsh...@reading.ac.uk Tel. 0734 318777 Fax 0734 316636
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sandra Loosemore
also a well-known historian and author.
-Sandra
Bill Duke
===============
No. Lucifer was The Light. The King James refers only to the
Serpent. (I don't know enough Greek or Hebrew to tell if there's a
etymological connection.) Satan was after The Fall.
Don Garlits was often...oh, never mind.
Rosa Burger
SubGenius
: No. Lucifer was The Light. The King James refers only to the
: Serpent. (I don't know enough Greek or Hebrew to tell if there's a
: etymological connection.) Satan was after The Fall.
+--------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
More to the point, Satan was just satan before the Babylonian Exile. There
the chilluns of Abraham picked up the idea of evil personified, making
satan, a Hebrew adversary, the definite article Adversary. The Serpent
isn't in Greek in Genesis, which was Beresith in the beginning, until
the Septuagint.
The Serpent was merely a serpent when Genesis was Beresith, a nachash
(naw-khawsh') whisperer which, Jews having Kabbalists around to keep
them hip to them subtilties not afoot in the field, implies a whisperer
of magick (since before inflation all terminal C's rated K's as well)
spells, in turn implying enchantments and observations and, shamans
being the shiftless sort, snakes, whose hisses to heavily aspirating
aspiring Semetic scholars must've sounded like whispers.
The official accusation of the serpent of being the Serpent and so
being Satan the satan wasn't officially put on, or rather in, any
of the books an xian would be expected to see (that is, being unfamiliar
with Talmudic scholarship) until as late in the game as the Apocalypse,
now Revelation. In which our whispering Hebrew nachash becomes a
wide-eyed Greek ophis, who from optanomai or optomai, vision and
observation, by way of ophathalmos, the sideways glance figurative of
jealousy or envy (which are not to be confused), is a snake apparently
related to an eye doctor. Oye, our ophis is called satanas, a Chaldean
accuser and half-brother to the Hebrew adversary, satan which is
saw-tawn' and therefore but for a vowel point the more primative
saw-tan' satan or accuser which is Hewbrew Chaldean for you.
Lucifer is a whole other can of Wyrms. In Isaiah we find English Lucifer
being used for Hebrew heylel, sometimes the Shining One, which is the
morning star who is calling herself Venus these days, and who
the Greeks thought to be two celestial personages, the evening star
Hesperos meaning `west' which is where the evening star appears, and
Phosphoros the lightbringer and morning star. About two centuries after
(not deutero-) Isaiah, Pythagoras lept out of a tub shouting `Eurika'
and proclaiming that Heperos and Phosphoros were really both Venus,
leading locals to mutter, `Not again,' wonder what the Great
Geometer was doing thinking about the goddess of l*v* in the tub,
and point out that her real name was Aphrodite.
Anyway, when the Romans decided that they liked the look of the Greek
pantheon but for the names, they decided that Hesperos and Phosphoros,
who we know were really just Venus being two-faced, were actually
Vesper, west, and Lucifer, lightbringer, in disguise.
So we find Isaiah exclaiming how art thou fallen heylel, Phosphoros,
or Lucifer depending on whether we're being Hebrews, Septuaginarians
or Vulgarians.
Hope this clears everything up.
`I am a Vulgarian.
Humour is beyond
me. Heheheh.'
`Funny, I've never
heard him laugh
before,'
Yours etc.,
SubGenius
Linda Fortney
--
Linda Fortney
lfor...@umd5.umd.edu
Ted B Samsel
Not snake names but there is a very interesting book put out
by U of T (Tennessee not Texas) Pres called SNAKE-HANDLING
BELIEVERS. A worthy tome, this. Non-fiction.
--
Ted Samsel ....."driving a Hudson Hornet on the information
superhighway. Now all we need is a JC Whitney
catalog to order leopardskin terrycloth seat
covers."
Emma Pease
reading subgenius's long article on Satan.
Pat Hanby in a sidethread mentioned Keats' Lamia which brought to mind
Melusine (see A.S. Byatt's Possession among other works modern and
medieval) as another snake (or snake/woman). Did the snake/woman in
The Silver Chair by C.S. Lewis have a name?
Emma
net spinster
em...@csli.stanford.edu
Mark Taranto
Well, if there isn't a book that has a snake named Lucifer in it -- I
guess I'll just have to write one.
Mark
R.J.Hare
James Fenimore Coopers' 'Last of the Mohicans' is meant to mean 'The Great
Snake' in the Delaware/Mohican language...
Roger Hare.
Mike Pingleton
Not Crichton. In Kipling's story, the krait bites when stepped on in the
dark. In real life the same is true. I've had the opportunity to handle
a banded krait and I wouldn't trust them (or any venomous snake) at any time
of day.
Mike Pingleton
reading The Beak of the Finch by Jonathon Weiner
roger m squires
>> has never been known to bite during the day, even
>> when children play with them. ....
>>
>dark. In real life the same is true. I've had the opportunity to handle
>a banded krait and I wouldn't trust them (or any venomous snake) at any time
>of day.
I would be foolish to deny it. Still, the Tommy/Rikki/Karait
encounter occurs during the day if I read aright. This circumstance
in _Sphere_ allows the biologist heroine to toss handfulls of deadly
sea-snakes around like so many strands of wet spaghetti! Ha!
Perhaps Rikki was playing the audience a bit.
>Mike Pingleton
rms
Devakumar Sreevijayan
Mike Pingleton <ping...@ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>Re: Snakes in Great Literature: One of the info-bites in
>>Crichton's _Sphere_ says that:
>>
>> Many poisonous snakes are alternately aggressive and
>> passive in twelve-hour cycles, corresponding to day
>> and night. During the day, when they're passive,
>> you can handle them and they will never bite. For
>> example, in India, the highly poisonous banded krait
>> has never been known to bite during the day, even
>> when children play with them. ....
In India, children play with kraits during the day, but only
on Saturdays. On other days, they play with king cobras, tigers,
elephants, rhinos and alligators. On Mondays, they do not play
with anything; they do yoga all day and in the evenings, after
a cool drink of lassi, they learn the beginners version of the
Kama Sutra. If, however, they are below the age of fifteen, they
merely sing soulful evening and late-night ragas. This they do
well into the morning hours. Such is life in India. I hope this
has been another lethal info-bite.
Dev
Bill Duke
Pretty cool idea, actually. Maybe kind of a Biblical, antediluvian
espionage tale, or something. All sorts of possibilities.
Mike Pingleton
Um, it is true one can toss sea snakes like so much pasta. When they do
decide to bite they can kill you, makes no difference what time of the day
it is. Crichton wrapped a fact in fiction when the truth would have served
as well (I read _Sphere_ a few years back, can't recall much about it).
Mike, also peeved when Tarzan wrestles American Alligators
to other venomous snakes
Insanity's Mistress
>
> Pat Hanby in a sidethread mentioned Keats' Lamia which brought to mind
> Melusine (see A.S. Byatt's Possession among other works modern and
> medieval) as another snake (or snake/woman). Did the snake/woman in
> The Silver Chair by C.S. Lewis have a name?
>
I think it's worth mentioning that Lamia may be a proper name in Keats' poem,
but in a mythology (I don't remember which one, I think it may be an Eastern
one?) "lamia" is a common noun for a rather nasty half-woman half-snake
creature.
--Jane
"...the Furies--three very unpleasant people..." --Jim Hala
Graham J Ward
>On Thu, 16 Jun 1994, Matthew Crosby wrote:
>
>> While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
>> librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
>> librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
>> about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
>
>What about Philip Larkin? He was Librarian of the University of Leeds,
>England, as well as being a major poet.
You mean Hull.
--
Graham J Ward
gra...@thphys.ox.ac.uk
Peter Rogan
Jim Hartley
>Not from literature, but how about Ken Stabler?
Whaddaya mean "not from literature"? _Snake_ by Ken Stabler is an
outstanding book. Lots of great stories about how the Good and Mighty
Oakland Raiders do battle with and destroy The Evil Ones.
--
Jim Hartley
jeha...@ucdavis.edu
"The civilized are those who get more out of life than the uncivilized,
and for this the uncivilized have never forgiven them." Cyril Connolly
John V Ashby
>>While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
>>librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
>>librarian might be appriate. Or anything else, for that matter--I thought
>>about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
>Well, there's Philip Larkin for one. Particularly appropriate if you
>use [High] Windows.
>Or you could call your server "Comstock", after the book server in
>Orwell's "Keep the Aspidistra Flying".
Why not WESCAC?
john
John V Ashby
an afternoon and has several dreams is T. natrix natrix.
john
Jack Campin
> Pat Hanby <vlsh...@reading.ac.uk> writes:
>> On Thu, 16 Jun 1994, Matthew Crosby wrote:
>>> While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous
>>> literary librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and
>>> I thought a librarian might be appriate.
>> England, as well as being a major poet.
> You mean Hull.
You also mean minor.
I'd suggest either Jorge Luis Borges or Jorge of Burgos.
--
-- Jack Campin -- Room 1.36, Department of Computing & Electrical Engineering,
Mountbatten Building, Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS
TEL: 031 449 5111 ext 4195 HOME: 031 556 5272 FAX: 031 451 3431
INTERNET: ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL BANG!net: via mcsun & uknet
Insanity's Mistress
in _The Name of the Rose_ (whose name I can't remember)?
--Jane
Herb Lison
.. stuff deleted ..1
>
>Or Borges, from Tlon's sister planet, who got to be Jorge of Burgos in _The
>Nameof the Rose__
Can someone enlighten me on Umberto Eco's use of Jorge Borges name for
the main villain in Name of the Rose? Did Eco have some political
animus against Borges, or was it something less obvious?
Thanks,
Herb Lison
Francis Muir
You have just been beaten to the post by Jack Campin whose contribution
may have passed over the heads of those not rosarians.
Francis Muir
Rosa Burger
No, I don't think Eco had anything against Borges, but was probably
thinking of some of JLB's works, like the short story, The Library
of Babel. As far as I know, anyway.
Rosa
Deirdre A. Johnson
>
> Pat Hanby in a sidethread mentioned Keats' Lamia which brought to mind
> Melusine (see A.S. Byatt's Possession among other works modern and
> medieval) as another snake (or snake/woman). Did the snake/woman in
> The Silver Chair by C.S. Lewis have a name?
>
> Emma
> net spinster
> em...@csli.stanford.edu
>
>
The snake/woman in The Silver Chair had a title rather than a name;
she was called the Lady of the Green Kirtle. When I was little, I
used to equate her with Jadis (the witch in The Magician's Nephew),
but on reflection, I'm not sure that's entirely logical.
There's a snake/woman in George MacDonald's Lilith, who is quite
subtle and dangerous, and can transform herself into a leopard.
I'm afraid that I can't mention her name without giving away
half of the book's plot .... but maybe I've done that already
...ah, well.
I'll let you know if I think of any more.
--
the octopus s secret wish / is not to be a formal fish /
he dreams that sometime he may grow / another set of legs or so/
and be a broadway music show -archy|
-----------------------------------| (da...@Virginia.edu) -deirdre
Stephen Leary
In a previous article, he...@sybase.com (Herb Lison) says:
>Can someone enlighten me on Umberto Eco's use of Jorge Borges name for
>the main villain in Name of the Rose? Did Eco have some political
>animus against Borges, or was it something less obvious?
>
Eco has no animus against Borges, quite the opposite. It is Borges
who has speculated upon libraries, real and metaphysical, more than
others, and Eco obviously owes a debt to him. As Eco said
somewhere, a blind librarian in a huge library can only be
Borges. In the early 1980s, Eco gave a speech commemorating the 25th
anniversary of the Milan Public Library. It was mostly a list
of his own lifelong grudges against libraries and their
shortcomings from his perspective. Probably not what the
organizers expected to hear. He also quoted extensively from
"The Library of Babel" and called it "scripture" and finished
his reading with a big "Amen!"
The library in The Name of the Rose also is related to "The Library
of Babel" as there was no such gigantic library known in the
Middle Ages. As a respected scholar of that era, Eco obviously
knew that.
Stephen Leary
SubGenius
: sipping my cup of hot tea and nibbling on some lemon bread while
: reading subgenius's long article on Satan.
+----------------------------------------SubG------------------------------+
...And thus avoiding the perils of embarking on a SubG mutter without
provisions. As as oft been noted, I often need to put rest stops and
refreshment stands in some on my longer sentences (to say nothing of
the parenthetical gibb...er...asides), much less, or rather much more,
entire posts. Ignore the remains of less wary travellers, often seen
bleaching in the wasteland between the terminal line and the signature.
Yours etc.,
SubGenius
Jack Campin
> The library in The Name of the Rose also is related to "The Library of
> Babel" as there was no such gigantic library known in the Middle Ages.
> As a respected scholar of that era, Eco obviously knew that.
Where did Eco get the idea for the library's shelf labelling system? (For
people who haven't read it: each block of shelving was named arbitrarily
after a geographical region, entirely unrelated to the content). I saw the
library at Traquair House (in the Borders, a residence of the kings of
Scotland for a few centuries) a few weeks ago; it used a similar idea, with
each shelving unit named after a classical writer, again with the contents
being random and unrelated to the person whose name they were shelved
under. Traquair House dates back to the twelfth century but I think the
library only goes back to the seventeenth. Is there a well-known mediaeval
library that was the antecedent for both Eco and the Stewarts of Traquair?
Ann Griffith
>
>The library in The Name of the Rose also is related to "The Library
>of Babel" as there was no such gigantic library known in the
>Middle Ages. As a respected scholar of that era, Eco obviously
>knew that.
What an interesting anecdote about Eco's speech!
Let me add one point to Stephen's fine response; that Eco
owed the shape of his library in _The Name of the Rose_
to Borges. Both were labyrinths with hexagonal rooms.
Ann
Joann Zimmerman
wrote:
> Where did Eco get the idea for the library's shelf labelling system? (For
> people who haven't read it: each block of shelving was named arbitrarily
> after a geographical region, entirely unrelated to the content). I saw the
> library at Traquair House (in the Borders, a residence of the kings of
> Scotland for a few centuries) a few weeks ago; it used a similar idea, with
> each shelving unit named after a classical writer, again with the contents
> being random and unrelated to the person whose name they were shelved
> under. Traquair House dates back to the twelfth century but I think the
> library only goes back to the seventeenth. Is there a well-known mediaeval
> library that was the antecedent for both Eco and the Stewarts of Traquair?
Not to my knowledge; instead, it sounds as if Eco was playing off either
the Traquair or Cotton libraries. The Cotton library, a famous manuscript
collection, was divided into twelve sections, each with a Roman bust
(emperors all, I believe) on top of the shelves. Shelf listings for the
materials were derived from their positions relative to the busts. When the
collection eventually migrated to the British Museum (now Library), the
shelf marks went along, so that you occasionally see designations such as
BL Cotton Nero something-or-other.
Somewhere in my files I have a discussion of the royal library of France in
the 14th century; perhaps I should look and see if they discuss the
classification system.
--
"Books speak even when they stand unopened on the shelf. If you would
know a man or woman, look at their books, not their software."
--E. Annie Proulx
Joann Zimmerman jz...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Richard N Kitchen
In a previous article, chg...@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (A.M.Mair) says:
>I remember names like Sand and Mist from
>Dreamsnake by Vonda McIntyre.
Weren't they Mist, and Grass, and Sand?
An excellent story, BTW.
--
Rick Kitchen da...@cleveland.freenet.edu
"Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
--Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"
Richard N Kitchen
Ah. Another snake I thought of. Set(h), the Egyptian god of death, was
represented as a snake.
Richard N Kitchen
Ack. What was the name of Terry Pratchett's librarian at Unseen
University, who gets turned into an orangutang?
Gary Lee Stonum
>Where did Eco get the idea for the library's shelf labelling system? (For
>people who haven't read it: each block of shelving was named arbitrarily
>after a geographical region, entirely unrelated to the content). I saw the
>library at Traquair House (in the Borders, a residence of the kings of
>Scotland for a few centuries) a few weeks ago; it used a similar idea, with
>each shelving unit named after a classical writer, again with the contents
>being random and unrelated to the person whose name they were shelved
>under. Traquair House dates back to the twelfth century but I think the
>library only goes back to the seventeenth. Is there a well-known mediaeval
>library that was the antecedent for both Eco and the Stewarts of Traquair?
I would guess that, apart from an allusion to any library, Eco was
working from the notion of a memory theater or a set of commonplaces,
where stuff to be memorized is arbritarily associated with a
geographical space, which the memorizer can then mentally travel
through. According to Francis Yates and lots of others, this was
a very common mental technique up through the Renaissance, and it
survives somewhat in the techniques they'll sell you in the backs
of magazines for "improving your memory."
Obbasketball: Jerry Lucas, after retiring from the pros, used to
do such memory tricks and maybe still does.
Stonum
Jeffrey A. Del Col
Ioan Couliano's EROS AND MAGIC IN THE RENAISSANCE discusses the use of
erotic imagery in artificial memories. According to I.C., one reason
both the Catholics and Protestants suppressed such systems was the
reliance on the erotic as a aid to memory and as a technique for
psychological control. Interesting book.
>Obbasketball: Jerry Lucas, after retiring from the pros, used to
>do such memory tricks and maybe still does.
Yes, and he also peddles a loony system of Biblical numerolog(I think he
calls it Theomathics or something equally idiotic) For a while he was
also selling the Korean Chisan Bop(sp?) finger arithmetic method.
J. Del Col
--
Jeff Del Col * "Sleeplessness is like metaphysics.
A-B College * Be there."
Philippi, WV *
* ----Charles Simic----
Matt Austern
> I would guess that, apart from an allusion to any library, Eco was
> working from the notion of a memory theater or a set of commonplaces,
> where stuff to be memorized is arbritarily associated with a
> geographical space, which the memorizer can then mentally travel
> through. According to Francis Yates and lots of others, this was
> a very common mental technique up through the Renaissance, and it
> survives somewhat in the techniques they'll sell you in the backs
> of magazines for "improving your memory."
It's also discussed in a fair bit of detail in _Little, Big_, where it
shows up in a somewhat different form.
--
Matt Austern "Se non e vero, e ben trovato"
Laura Johnson
: Ack. What was the name of Terry Pratchett's librarian at Unseen
: University, who gets turned into an orangutang?
: --
: Rick Kitchen da...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Never referred to anything but The Librarian, so far as I can recall.
However, feel free to slide over to alt.fan.pratchett. Terry would know. ;->
Ook.
Philip Morgan
gx...@po.cwru.edu "Gary Lee Stonum" writes:
>
>
> >Where did Eco get the idea for the library's shelf labelling system? (For
> >people who haven't read it: each block of shelving was named arbitrarily
> >after a geographical region, entirely unrelated to the content). I saw the
> >library at Traquair House (in the Borders, a residence of the kings of
> >Scotland for a few centuries) a few weeks ago; it used a similar idea, with
> >each shelving unit named after a classical writer, again with the contents
> >being random and unrelated to the person whose name they were shelved
> >under.
>
A damn site better than the system used in the libraries in Cambridgeshire,
England, where there are sections of books with little stickers (a boat for
sea stories, a gun for thrillers, a rocket for sci fi, etc.).
This I suppose makes it easy for readers dashing in and grabbing any book
in their favourite theme but the trouble is they mix in a lot of stuff I
look for under author so I have to search two lots of shelves - the "theme"
shelves and the proper shelves.
--
Philip Morgan "Lend thy serious hearing to what I shall impart"
ph...@buckden.demon.co.uk - Hamlet (The Ghost)
Joann Zimmerman
(Jeffrey A. Del Col) wrote:
>
> In a previous article, gx...@po.cwru.edu (Gary Lee Stonum) says:
>
> >In article <Crun6...@cee.hw.ac.uk> ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
> >
> >I would guess that, apart from an allusion to any library, Eco was
> >working from the notion of a memory theater or a set of commonplaces,
> >where stuff to be memorized is arbritarily associated with a
> >geographical space, which the memorizer can then mentally travel
> >through. According to Francis Yates and lots of others, this was
> >a very common mental technique up through the Renaissance, and it
> >survives somewhat in the techniques they'll sell you in the backs
> >of magazines for "improving your memory."
For a fairly clear discussion of Middle Ages techniques, take a look at
_The Book of Memory_ by Mary Carruthers. Nice trip from Aristotle to Cicero
and Quintilian and on to Hugh of St. Victor. It was recently republished in
trade paperback. Expect to find it in the Medieval Studies section.
> Ioan Couliano's EROS AND MAGIC IN THE RENAISSANCE discusses the use of
> erotic imagery in artificial memories. According to I.C., one reason
> both the Catholics and Protestants suppressed such systems was the
> reliance on the erotic as a aid to memory and as a technique for
> psychological control. Interesting book.
Sounds fascinating. Wish I wasn't reading for orals just now. (All this
detective stuff I keep coming up with is simply evening reading--I don't
seem to be able to read anything challenging for recreational purposes at
the moment; seems to interfere with the recall processes or something.)
> >Obbasketball: Jerry Lucas, after retiring from the pros, used to
> >do such memory tricks and maybe still does.
> Yes, and he also peddles a loony system of Biblical numerolog(I think he
> calls it Theomathics or something equally idiotic) For a while he was
> also selling the Korean Chisan Bop(sp?) finger arithmetic method.
And co-wrote a book on his memory techniques, which I found to be
relatively useless--that is, over-obvious--and which I mercifully can't
find, but I believe the title is something like _The Memory Book_.
--
"I never understood people who don't have bookshelves."
--George Plimpton
Joann Zimmerman jz...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Robert Teeter
: In article <CrGz2...@cnsnews.Colorado.EDU> cro...@cs.colorado.edu (Matthew Crosby) writes:
: >
: >While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
: >librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
: >about naming it j-edgar-hoover, since it keeps files on everyone.
: >
: Well, there's Philip Larkin for one. Particularly appropriate if you
: use [High] Windows.
Do Casanova or Mao count as literary? Both worked in libraries,
the former running a nobleman's private library, the latter as more of
a periodical clerk in a university library.
Robert Teeter
Heikki Raudaskoski
:>
:>While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
:>librarians?
I think it's necessary to mention Jorge Luis Borges, above all.
He worked as a librarian in Buenos Aires (and obviously in Babel,
too.)
: Robert Teeter
Heikki Raudaskoski
Colin Rosenthal
Raudaskoski) wrote:
If you want librarians _in literature_ there's the Orang Utan librarian in
Terry Pratchetts diskworld books. He doesn't have a name, but he is forced to
wear a collar with the name "Pongo" on it at one point. Then there's the
librarian in The Name of the Rose. (Malachi?)
Colin Rosenthal
Robert Teeter
: : Robert Teeter
: Heikki Raudaskoski
Very good. Borges was, I believe, director of the Argentinian
national library. The U.S. equivalent (although not comparable as a
writer) would be Archibald McLeish.
Robert Teeter
Anders Thulin
>
>While I'm on the subject of naming, can anyone think of some famous literary
>librarians? We also need a name for a new disk server, and I thought a
>librarian might be appriate.
Magliabecchi. Libarian to some Italian prince -- don't remember where.
But there should be a Magliabecchian library somewhere in Italy.
Firenze?
Probably best known for keeping spiders, and avoiding visitors as much
as possible for fear they would step on his pets.
He had an uncanny memory, though, and seems to have remembered almost
everything he had read. He seems to have been an information
consultant of sorts and a kind of last resort in information problems.
"Reading without thinking is of little use" is attributed to M.
--
Anders Thulin a...@linkoping.trab.se 013-23 55 32
Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden