info
Οι Ομάδες Google δεν υποστηρίζουν πλέον νέες αναρτήσεις ή εγγραφές στο Usenet. Το ιστορικό περιεχόμενο παραμένει ορατό.
Dismiss
Change and Choice
13 προβολές
Παράβλεψη και μετάβαση στο πρώτο μη αναγνωσμένο μήνυμα
Ilya Shambat
19 Ιαν 2023, 4:42:02 π.μ.19/1/23
ως
There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was said in a recent movie, “People don't change, they become more of what they are.” These people have obviously not studied history.
In fact, people change all the time, for all sorts of reasons, and in all sorts of different directions. The Germans were complete jerks during the Second World War, but they are not now. The Jews were liberal pacifists before the Second World War, whereas Israeli Jews at this time are fascists.
Many of the same people who claim to speak in favor of responsibility also claim that some people – such as sociopaths - are evil and can only be evil whatever they do. These two claims are mutually contradictory. If people are responsible for their actions, then anyone – even a sociopath - can choose to act rightfully; and if some people cannot act rightfully whatever they do, then people are not responsible for their actions. Two mutually contradictory claims are made by the same mentality. And that means that at least one of these claims is a lie.
This foolishness has gone so far that now, in Australia, they attack people who have been born in disadvantaged situations under the claim that they are going to be criminals and abusers. As if they weren't already suffering enough. I know many people who come from disadvantage who are not abusers or criminals. Many of these people are very impressive individuals. They overcame disadvantage to become decent citizens; and, in a number of cases, are much more than just that.
People do change. People change all the time and in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of reasons. To deny the same is to deny that people have the capacity for choice. Anything that is capable of choice is capable of right choice, and it is also capable of change. And yes, that includes sociopaths.
When I was writing against someone who was shouting about sociopaths, I was asked why I was advocating for the scum of the earth. What I am advocating for is choice and free will. You have to make up your mind. Are people responsible for their actions or aren't they? If they are, then anyone can choose to act rightfully, and anyone can change. And if some people cannot do such a thing, then people are not responsible for their actions. Pick either one or the other; both cannot be.
I am also advocating for constitutional intent. In America, people are meant to be protected from witch hunts and persecutions. I was never diagnosed as a sociopath or anything similar. I do however take seriously human rights and constitutional intent. And I know that the same extends to everyone, including sociopaths.
When I see a hysteria and a witch hunt, I tell you about it. And this is exactly what we have seen. Precisely, we have seen the worst hysteria in America's history, something that makes Joseph McCarthy look like an angel. You have no idea what causes this disorder. You have no idea how to treat it. And yet you claim that people who have this disorder are evil and can only be evil whatever they do.
What we are seeing here goes against most basic reason. Evil is not psychology, evil is choice. Anyone can act right, and anyone can act wrong. That is because of choice. And choice trumps psychology and neurology.
If someone does not know how to cure a disorder, all that says is that he has no valuable insight on the subject. Valuable insight comes from somebody else. If you have been born with a neurological abnormality, that does not mean that you are damned for life or that you can only be evil. Use your mind. Understand how your actions affect others. And then use choice and intelligence to correct the effects of whatever is wrong with your brain.
Anyone therefore can choose to act rightfully. This is the case even with sociopaths. Whereas there are any number of perfectly normal people out there who do horrible things. They do not have a bad neurology. What they have is bad values.
Not all sociopaths are evil, and not all evil people are sociopaths. There are many sociopaths who've never committed a crime. And there are many perfectly normal people who murder, rape, scam, abuse and pollute. Spanish colonialists were perfectly normal, but they were at least as cruel as the Nazis. Most people in Texas Oil are perfectly normal, but they have poisoned the world.
To believe that there is such a thing as a criminal personality is an Orwellian institution of crimethink. It says that people can be made criminal by virtue of how they think. And this creates a de facto totalitarianism that is so absolute that people are not allowed to be free from it even within the privacy of their minds.
If you really want to treat people who actually have this disorder, the correct solution is to get them to use their minds. Teach them to see how what they do affects other people. And then they will be able to use the mind to do the job that the heart fails to do.
As for people being able to change, that is a given. People change all the time and in all sorts of ways. Denying change is denying choice. It is denying the driving force for all action. And it is dehumanizing people and turning them into beasts.
In fact, people change all the time, for all sorts of reasons, and in all sorts of different directions. The Germans were complete jerks during the Second World War, but they are not now. The Jews were liberal pacifists before the Second World War, whereas Israeli Jews at this time are fascists.
Many of the same people who claim to speak in favor of responsibility also claim that some people – such as sociopaths - are evil and can only be evil whatever they do. These two claims are mutually contradictory. If people are responsible for their actions, then anyone – even a sociopath - can choose to act rightfully; and if some people cannot act rightfully whatever they do, then people are not responsible for their actions. Two mutually contradictory claims are made by the same mentality. And that means that at least one of these claims is a lie.
This foolishness has gone so far that now, in Australia, they attack people who have been born in disadvantaged situations under the claim that they are going to be criminals and abusers. As if they weren't already suffering enough. I know many people who come from disadvantage who are not abusers or criminals. Many of these people are very impressive individuals. They overcame disadvantage to become decent citizens; and, in a number of cases, are much more than just that.
People do change. People change all the time and in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of reasons. To deny the same is to deny that people have the capacity for choice. Anything that is capable of choice is capable of right choice, and it is also capable of change. And yes, that includes sociopaths.
When I was writing against someone who was shouting about sociopaths, I was asked why I was advocating for the scum of the earth. What I am advocating for is choice and free will. You have to make up your mind. Are people responsible for their actions or aren't they? If they are, then anyone can choose to act rightfully, and anyone can change. And if some people cannot do such a thing, then people are not responsible for their actions. Pick either one or the other; both cannot be.
I am also advocating for constitutional intent. In America, people are meant to be protected from witch hunts and persecutions. I was never diagnosed as a sociopath or anything similar. I do however take seriously human rights and constitutional intent. And I know that the same extends to everyone, including sociopaths.
When I see a hysteria and a witch hunt, I tell you about it. And this is exactly what we have seen. Precisely, we have seen the worst hysteria in America's history, something that makes Joseph McCarthy look like an angel. You have no idea what causes this disorder. You have no idea how to treat it. And yet you claim that people who have this disorder are evil and can only be evil whatever they do.
What we are seeing here goes against most basic reason. Evil is not psychology, evil is choice. Anyone can act right, and anyone can act wrong. That is because of choice. And choice trumps psychology and neurology.
If someone does not know how to cure a disorder, all that says is that he has no valuable insight on the subject. Valuable insight comes from somebody else. If you have been born with a neurological abnormality, that does not mean that you are damned for life or that you can only be evil. Use your mind. Understand how your actions affect others. And then use choice and intelligence to correct the effects of whatever is wrong with your brain.
Anyone therefore can choose to act rightfully. This is the case even with sociopaths. Whereas there are any number of perfectly normal people out there who do horrible things. They do not have a bad neurology. What they have is bad values.
Not all sociopaths are evil, and not all evil people are sociopaths. There are many sociopaths who've never committed a crime. And there are many perfectly normal people who murder, rape, scam, abuse and pollute. Spanish colonialists were perfectly normal, but they were at least as cruel as the Nazis. Most people in Texas Oil are perfectly normal, but they have poisoned the world.
To believe that there is such a thing as a criminal personality is an Orwellian institution of crimethink. It says that people can be made criminal by virtue of how they think. And this creates a de facto totalitarianism that is so absolute that people are not allowed to be free from it even within the privacy of their minds.
If you really want to treat people who actually have this disorder, the correct solution is to get them to use their minds. Teach them to see how what they do affects other people. And then they will be able to use the mind to do the job that the heart fails to do.
As for people being able to change, that is a given. People change all the time and in all sorts of ways. Denying change is denying choice. It is denying the driving force for all action. And it is dehumanizing people and turning them into beasts.
Bonita Montero
19 Ιαν 2023, 9:42:06 π.μ.19/1/23
ως
Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
David Brown
19 Ιαν 2023, 10:19:01 π.μ.19/1/23
ως
On 19/01/2023 15:42, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
>
> Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
>> There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was
...
> Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
>
> Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
>> There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was
And you thought it was necessary to quote the /entire/ post to make that
comment?
I think there has been some hiccup on a Usenet server somewhere - I've
seen a few posts end up in the wrong groups today. I have no idea if
Muttley's post is appropriate or not in rec.arts.books - I'm sure it
makes more sense in the context of threads there.
(By the way, Muttley, there is a term for people who write "The Germans
are this" or "The Jews are that" - it is "racist". Make comments about
individuals if you like, but sweeping statements about a group of people
based on irrelevant factors such as nationality, religion, gender, etc.,
is bigotry and has no place anywhere. I'm assuming you did not mean to
write that way, but you should choose your words more carefully in the
future.)
Mut...@dastardlyhq.com
19 Ιαν 2023, 11:30:26 π.μ.19/1/23
ως
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:42:54 +0100
Bonita Montero <Bonita....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
>
>Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
>> There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was said in a
>recent movie, “People don't change, they become more of what they are.”
>These people have obviously not studied history.
>>
>> In fact, people change all the time, for all sorts of reasons, and in all
>sorts of different directions. The Germans were complete jerks during the
>Second World War, but they are not now. The Jews were liberal pacifists before
>the Second World War, whereas Israeli Jews at this time are fascists.
Given how complicated you make your code its odd how your grasp of geopolitics
Bonita Montero <Bonita....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
>
>Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
>> There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was said in a
>recent movie, “People don't change, they become more of what they are.”
>These people have obviously not studied history.
>>
>> In fact, people change all the time, for all sorts of reasons, and in all
>sorts of different directions. The Germans were complete jerks during the
>Second World War, but they are not now. The Jews were liberal pacifists before
>the Second World War, whereas Israeli Jews at this time are fascists.
is so simplistic.
>> Not all sociopaths are evil, and not all evil people are sociopaths. There
>are many sociopaths who've never committed a crime. And there are many
>perfectly normal people who murder, rape, scam, abuse and pollute. Spanish
>colonialists were perfectly normal, but they were at least as cruel as the
>Nazis. Most people in Texas Oil are perfectly normal, but they have poisoned
>the world.
artificial frabrics instead of cotton and wool, buy endless crap made of
plastic and particularly in small penis syndrome USA where you're not a real
man unless you drive a 2.5 ton pickup or SUV with some gas guzzling V8 that
barely manages double digit mpg.
Mut...@dastardlyhq.com
19 Ιαν 2023, 11:32:56 π.μ.19/1/23
ως
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 16:18:58 +0100
David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>On 19/01/2023 15:42, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
>>
>> Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
>>> There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was
>....
David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>On 19/01/2023 15:42, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
>>
>> Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
>>> There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was
>
>And you thought it was necessary to quote the /entire/ post to make that
>comment?
>
>I think there has been some hiccup on a Usenet server somewhere - I've
>seen a few posts end up in the wrong groups today. I have no idea if
>Muttley's post is appropriate or not in rec.arts.books - I'm sure it
>makes more sense in the context of threads there.
>
>(By the way, Muttley, there is a term for people who write "The Germans
>are this" or "The Jews are that" - it is "racist". Make comments about
>individuals if you like, but sweeping statements about a group of people
>based on irrelevant factors such as nationality, religion, gender, etc.,
>is bigotry and has no place anywhere. I'm assuming you did not mean to
>write that way, but you should choose your words more carefully in the
>future.)
I never wrote any such thing. The only post I've seen is Bonita "reposting"
>And you thought it was necessary to quote the /entire/ post to make that
>comment?
>
>I think there has been some hiccup on a Usenet server somewhere - I've
>seen a few posts end up in the wrong groups today. I have no idea if
>Muttley's post is appropriate or not in rec.arts.books - I'm sure it
>makes more sense in the context of threads there.
>
>(By the way, Muttley, there is a term for people who write "The Germans
>are this" or "The Jews are that" - it is "racist". Make comments about
>individuals if you like, but sweeping statements about a group of people
>based on irrelevant factors such as nationality, religion, gender, etc.,
>is bigotry and has no place anywhere. I'm assuming you did not mean to
>write that way, but you should choose your words more carefully in the
>future.)
something I apparently wrote. Either she wrote it herself or someone spoofed
by id which is hardly hard to do on usenet.
Kenny McCormack
19 Ιαν 2023, 11:54:59 π.μ.19/1/23
ως
In article <tqbn12$1jgmh$1...@dont-email.me>,
...
Therefore, making statements about these things is not "racist".
BTW, social science is all about making generalizations about populations.
Are you planning on outlawing social science? (You don't need to answer
that - the answer is obvious)
--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Pedantic
...
>(By the way, Muttley, there is a term for people who write "The Germans
>are this" or "The Jews are that" - it is "racist". Make comments about
Um, being German is not a race. Being Jewish is not a race.
>are this" or "The Jews are that" - it is "racist". Make comments about
Therefore, making statements about these things is not "racist".
BTW, social science is all about making generalizations about populations.
Are you planning on outlawing social science? (You don't need to answer
that - the answer is obvious)
--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Pedantic
David Brown
19 Ιαν 2023, 1:22:14 μ.μ.19/1/23
ως
On 19/01/2023 17:32, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> I never wrote any such thing. The only post I've seen is Bonita "reposting"
> something I apparently wrote. Either she wrote it herself or someone spoofed
> by id which is hardly hard to do on usenet.
>
OK. That's good to know.
> I never wrote any such thing. The only post I've seen is Bonita "reposting"
> something I apparently wrote. Either she wrote it herself or someone spoofed
> by id which is hardly hard to do on usenet.
>
For your information, the post appeared as though it were a reply to one
of the current threads here in "comp.lang.c++", though it was marked
"rec.arts.books", and was marked with you as the author. (I suspect a
Usenet server mixup somewhere.) So I believe Bonita merely quoted it.
I have no idea if someone intentionally posted it in your name, or if
that too was part of the server fault.
Spiros Bousbouras
19 Ιαν 2023, 3:00:08 μ.μ.19/1/23
ως
References: <36403165-3cf1-4b73...@googlegroups.com>
<tqbkrr$1ja1c$1...@dont-email.me> <tqbn12$1jgmh$1...@dont-email.me>
<tqbrbm$1htl$1...@gioia.aioe.org>
where <tqbkrr$1ja1c$1...@dont-email.me> is the post by Montero which allegedly
quotes Mut...@dastardlyhq.com but
<36403165-3cf1-4b73...@googlegroups.com> has as its author
Ilya Shambat. I don't know if people see something different (I see these
things using news2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de) or did not bother to follow
the references.
Mut...@dastardlyhq.com
20 Ιαν 2023, 10:48:30 π.μ.20/1/23
ως
see how a server fault fault would cause it tbh.
Pluted Pup
21 Ιαν 2023, 4:03:42 μ.μ.21/1/23
ως
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 07:18:58 -0800, David Brown wrote:
> On 19/01/2023 15:42, Bonita Montero wrote:
> > Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
> >
> > Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
> > > There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was
> ...
>
> And you thought it was necessary to quote the /entire/ post to make that
> comment?
>
> I think there has been some hiccup on a Usenet server somewhere - I've
> seen a few posts end up in the wrong groups today. I have no idea if
> Muttley's post is appropriate or not in rec.arts.books - I'm sure it
> makes more sense in the context of threads there.
The crap post was from rec.arts.books, which has for about
> On 19/01/2023 15:42, Bonita Montero wrote:
> > Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?
> >
> > Am 19.01.2023 um 10:31 schrieb Mut...@dastardlyhq.com:
> > > There are many people who believe that people don't change. As was
> ...
>
> And you thought it was necessary to quote the /entire/ post to make that
> comment?
>
> I think there has been some hiccup on a Usenet server somewhere - I've
> seen a few posts end up in the wrong groups today. I have no idea if
> Muttley's post is appropriate or not in rec.arts.books - I'm sure it
> makes more sense in the context of threads there.
15 years been subject to robo-posted spam by "Ilya Shambat".
Bonita reposted the crap with a crosspost.
>
> (By the way, Muttley, there is a term for people who write "The Germans
> are this" or "The Jews are that" - it is "racist". Make comments about
> individuals if you like, but sweeping statements about a group of people
> based on irrelevant factors such as nationality, religion, gender, etc.,
> is bigotry and has no place anywhere. I'm assuming you did not mean to
> write that way, but you should choose your words more carefully in the
> future.)
I'm glad Object C programmers are wising up and improving
their coding by antisemitism, despite the ban on antisemitism.
Jeffrey Rubard
21 Ιαν 2023, 4:46:09 μ.μ.21/1/23
ως
Pluted Pup
21 Ιαν 2023, 5:01:32 μ.μ.21/1/23
ως
Jeffrey Rubard
21 Ιαν 2023, 5:46:24 μ.μ.21/1/23
ως
(much in the fashion you are doing in your post) and that doesn't make for "good coding style",
obviously.
Jeffrey Rubard
21 Ιαν 2023, 5:47:13 μ.μ.21/1/23
ως
0 νέα μηνύματα