The Princess Bride
Melanie S. Kennedy
primarily for adults. I don't have a copy of the older paperback version,
but I seem to remember that the subtitle on the cover was, "A Fairytale for
Adults." One of my friends had read it, liked it, and was trying to get me
to read it. Thus, that copy was in my possession for at least a year.
That subtitle is not on the movie version paperback. Can anyone confirm/
deny it? Thanks. Oh, I think the book's for adults or perhaps high
schoolers/precocious middle schoolers.
philip s goetz
Isn't anybody else going to provide us with a list of their favorite
books?
When someone recommends one book, it doesn't mean much, as I can't tell
if I am the type of person who would also enjoy it. When someone lists
many of their favorite books, I can see if the pattern matches mine.
Phil Goetz
go...@cs.buffalo.EDU
Share And Enjoy
Connie Callahan
favorite books. I foresee lots of repetition if this
thread continues indefinitely, and an occasional flame
here and there as well :^). Here we go, in no particular
order:
D. Dunnett The Lymond Chronicles
Tolkein Lord of the Rings & Silmarillion
Ellison, Harlan Almost anything, but esp. Strange Wine
Cherryh, C.J. ditto
Andre Norton Almost anything, for primarily senti-
mental reasons
U.K. LeGuin ditto - a recent fave is _Dancing on
The Edge of the World_
Madeleine L'Engle again, ditto (see a pattern here?)
Rosemary Suttcliff Sword at Sunset
Lewis Thomas Late Night Thoughts at Listening to
Mahler's 9th Symphony
Gerald Weissman The Woods Hole Cantata
There we begin to break down. Here's some stuff I read
recently and liked a lot, but I'm not sure I'd class as
favorites yet:
? Nichols Milagro Beanfield War
Isabel Allende Love & Shadows & House of Spririts
David Lodge Nice Work
G.G. Marquez 100 Years of Solitude
Emma Bull War for the Oaks
Parke Godwin Waiting for the Galactic Bus
& The Snake Oil Wars
Tony Hillerman any & all
P.D. James any & all
D. Sayers I think I shoulda put her upstairs...
Sue Grafton A for Alibi, & all the others
Elizabeth Peters anything
This could go on forever . . .
Do you think we could start a "books I can't abide"
list instead? Talk about pyrotechnics . . .
but no: I will be good, and remark merely that after
all is said and done, I read for the *writing*, and
somewhere along the line I lost my tolerance for
awkward (IMHO) prose. So although certain authors
may write gripping stories with tight plots and
fascinating characters, sometimes I just can't
read them. My problem, not theirs -- and please don't
flame me for what may be a debilitating problem
in this society.
ta for now.
Connie Callahan "I'm gonna find me a ship, stow away on a boat
uunet: con...@osf.org I'm gonna burn all the words in letters
"Disclaimer? Disclaimer? and cards that I ever wrote."
What's a disclaimer?" -Mike Scott, _Medicine Bow_
j...@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu
>
> Isn't anybody else going to provide us with a list of their favorite
> books?
> When someone recommends one book, it doesn't mean much, as I can't tell
> if I am the type of person who would also enjoy it. When someone lists
> many of their favorite books, I can see if the pattern matches mine.
>
A top ten list off the top of my head,
Gravity's Rainbow Thomas Pynchon
Ulysses James Joyce
Winter's Tale Mark Helprin
The Imperial Palace Arnold Bennett
The Great Gatsby F. Scott Fitzgerald
The Sound and The Fury William Faulkner
The Deptford Trilogy Robertson Davies
100 Years of Solitude Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Life: A User's Manual Georges Perec
The French Lt.'s Woman John Fowles
(These may change if I actually look at my bookshelf at home)
Looking at these, it seems I am interested in a kind of realistic
fantasy type of fiction, for the most part, and of course anything
that is challenging.
obligatory sig: "Ice cream cone across the pie"
---
Illusions (Bach)
Liberation Theology (Berryman)
The Life of Johnson (Boswell)
Dandelion Wine (Bradbury)
Don Quixote (Cervantes)
Martin Chuzzlewit, Dombey & Son, Little Dorrit (Dickens)
Literary Theory: An Introduction (Eagleton)
The Good Soldier (Ford)
Orient Express, A Burnt-Out Case, Travels with my Aunt, Monsignor
Quixote (Greene)
Jude the Obscure (Hardy)
Last Temptation of Christ (Kazantzakis)
Catholicism and Fundamentalism (Keating)
Shoeless Joe, The Thrill of the Grass, The Fencepost Chronicles (Kinsella)
Collected Short Stories [4 vols] (Maugham)
Henry and Cato (Murdoch)
Catcher in the Rye, Nine Stories, Franny and Zooey, Raise High the Roof
Beam Carpenters and Seymour an Introduction (Salinger)
Tristram Shandy (Sterne)
Kept in the Dark (Trollope)
Scoop, The Loved One, Brideshead Revisted (Waugh)
-dh
--
Important note: The Anti-Social Committee will not be meeting this
week.
UUCP: uunet!jarthur!dhosek
Internet: dho...@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Emerick Rogul
Phillip MacDonald, "The Rasp", "The List of Adrian Messenger"
????? "The Day of the Jackal"
Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451"
Douglas Adams, "Hitch-hiker's Guide", etc.
James Joyce, "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man",
"Finnegans Wake" <--- REALLY good.
"Dubliners" (short stories)
????? "The Thirteen Clocks"
--
/ Emerick M. Rogul | "I was enslaved to the harshest mistress \
/ 700 Commonwealth Ave. | of all -- my *muse*. And that bitch \
/ Boston, MA 02215 | rode the right side of my brain for all \
/ eme...@bucsf.bu.edu | she was worth!" \
Dale Babiy
> When someone recommends one book, it doesn't mean
> much, as I can't tell
> if I am the type of person who would also enjoy it.
> When someone lists
> many of their favorite books, I can see if the pattern
> matches mine.
Firstly, I have to appologize for my pitiful ability to
remember the names of some of my favorates but here goes:
1) Lord of the Rings Tolkien
(Without question the best fantasy books I've read)
2) Neuromancer ?
3) The Foundation set Asimov
4) The Robot set Asimov
5) Almost anything by Arthur C. Clarke
6) Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy Douglas Adams
(wins prize for best book to read after you've spent 6
hours at keyboard writing report that was due a week ago
:-))
7) Assorted science fiction athologies.
8) Enders Game Orsion Scott Card
Dale Babiy
--- TosScan 1.00
* Origin: Island Interlace: Networking in co-operaton (89:681/20)
--
Dale Babiy - via IMEx node 89:681/1
Dale....@f20.n681.z89.FidoNet
uunet!van-bc!oneb!onebdos!!20!Dale.Babiy
Roman Rozin
to mind:
Victor Hugo:
Ninety Three
Les Miserables
The Man Who Laughs
(Some of the greatest books ever written, but you have to skip long
historical introjections)
Alexander Dumas, pere:
Count of Monte Cristo _
Three Musketeers |
Twenty Years After | Continuation of Three musketeers
Ten Years After (trilogy)| Continuation of Twenty Years After
-
Marguarette de Valois
Walther Scott:
Quentin Darward (sp?)
Friedrich Schiller:
Don Carlos (play)
John Fowles:
Mantissa
Donald Barthelme:
School
Report
Sentence
Our Friend Colby
The Glass Mountain (all five are short stories)
(When Barthelme is bad, he is unreadable, but when he is
good, he is hilarious)
Roger Zelazny:
Lord of Light
Nine Princes in Amber
Creatures of Light and Darkness
Isle of the Dead _
The Man Who Loved The Fayoli |
A Rose For Ecclesiastes | (short stories, beautiful and poetic)
Devil Car |
The Furies |
Frank Herbert:
Dune
Soul Catcher
Robert Ludlum:
The Bourne Identity
The Holcroft Covenant
Agatha Cristie:
The Murder of Roger Acroyd
Robert Heinlein:
The Puppet Masters
Time Enough For Love
The Door Into Summer
Edgar Rice Burroughs:
A Princess of Mars, and the other 10 books in series
Tarzan, Lord of The Apes, and selected others from 24 books in series
The Mucker
The Return of The Mucker
William Burroughs:
The Nova Express
Philip Jose Farmer:
World of Tiers series (5 books, so far)
The Stone God Awakens
The Image of The Beast
Riders of The Purple Wage (Novella)
Theodore Sturgeon:
The Synthetic Man
Anthony Burgess:
A Clockwork Orange
A Tremor of Intent
Richard Condon:
Prizzi's Honor
Isaac Asimov:
Foundation
Foundation And Empire
Second Foundation
(The other books in the series are far inferior)
Ayn Rand:
Anthem
We The Living
Fountainhead
Atlas Shrugged
Night of Jaunary the 16th (play)
Think Twice (play)
Red Pawn (novella)
Keith Laumer:
Dinosaur Beach
(The ultimate in time-travel stories)
Evgeny Zamiatin:
We
Victor Suvorov: non-fiction (pseudonym of a soviet defector from the GRU)
How I Became A Liberator
Aquarium
Inside Soviet Military Intelligence
Ian Fleming:
Casino Royale
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
There are lots more, but that is all I have time for now.
Roman Rozin
Cisco's Buddy
} _The Princess Bride_ is not BY William Goldin. He abridged another book
} by an author (I forget his name) and only published the parts he felt
} were relevant to the story. He didn't rewrite anything although I
} remember reading that he did write a different reunion scene between
} Buttercup and Westley but because he was only editing the book, the
} publisher wouldn't let him include it.
Sorry, Meg, but you were taken in by the joke hook, line, and sinker.
The whole bit about the original version of THE PRINCESS BRIDE by S.
Morgenstern is a hoax. Two pieces of evidence that you can check for
yourself:
(1) The film credits state "Screenplay by William Goldman, based on
his book". (I really think they missed the boat here, though -- they
*should* have said "based on the classic novel by S. Morgenstern").
(2) THE SILENT GONDOLIERS, by-lined "S. Morgenstern", with nary a
mention of Goldman, is listed as one of Goldman's books in some of
his others. In fact, it wasn't until I saw that it *was* listed in
another of Goldman's books that I believed it was actually by him.
I had assumed that it was ghost-written by someone else.
--
"How different in my native willage. Soft
music. Wiolins. The happy people sitting
on their balalaikas, playing their samovars."
--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)
UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian
ARPA: boyajian%ruby...@DECWRL.DEC.COM
Pete Harlan
that is why the movie of The Princess Bride is better than the book.
But Goldman WROTE the screenplay for The Princess Bride. It surprised
me in that it was toned down a little.
Not that anybody saw the movie or read the book, but the novel Heat,
also by Goldman, was also far more bitter and miserable than the
movie, which he also wrote the screenplay for. I was amazed that he
took his own book and 'sugarized' it for the screen the way he did,
not because it got worse (I think it got better, though a little
incoherent), but because the way he writes you wouldn't think he would
ever want to make anything more cheery.
I've read most of his books, and list him among the best writers I've
read, as long as you can stand his "life sucks but the good parts make
it just almost worth living until you die miserable" outlook.
Specifically, the ending of "Brothers" -- what's the deal, Bill?
"Oops -- this is about to end happily. I know, let's introduce a
senseless tragedy!!"
Massive digression: Anybody notice that the character of Scylla in
Marathon Man turned hetero for the sequel, Brothers? Anybody know
_why_? Was Goldman just afraid to write a book where the principal
character was gay? This was curious -- it seemed like he went out of
the way in Brothers to say he was straight, where there were all kinds
of subtle hints in Marathon Man about his homosexuality.
Less of a digression: If you haven't read any Goldman, and you want
to read some really good writing (particularly character development),
try:
Action:
Marathon Man
The Princess Bride
Control
Brothers
Sorta Depressing:
Tinsel
Father's Day
Really Depressing but A Must:
Boys and Girls Together
Honey, Where's the Rope:
The Color of Light (this isn't a recommendation, just a warning)
All are funny in places, and if you can put down any of the action
books you a stronger that I am...
Pete Harlan
har...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
BTW: The Princess Bride was totally, completely written by William
Goldman. S. Morgenstern, etc., never existed. If you write to the
address in the book to get the reunion scene you get a funny letter
explaining why Morgenstern's estate is blocking the release of the
scene, etc. But it is all a joke, and Mr. Goldman must laugh every
time someone believes him. I did too, but it isn't so.
Cisco's Buddy
} The movie--which is better than the novel--de-emphasizes it to about
} the right intensity: there, it's an excuse to tell the story, while
} in the book it's supposed to justify the story.
It's "de-emphasized" in the movie simply because there's not enough
time in the movie to emcompass it all. And the background material
isn't really all that cinematic.
} I think that Goldman felt self-conscious about the fantasy elements
} of this story, and felt he had to add all this padding to distance
} himself from it.
I'd be interested in having you explain in detail how you came to
this conclusion. The story fairly *relishes* in the fairy tale
elements.
} Whoever made the movie appreciated fine inventiveness, the superb
} cleverness of the Goldman tale, and discarded the dross.
Such an odd thing to say. Rob Reiner directed it, but Goldman wrote
the script for it himself. He also controlled what was done -- *he*
was the one who picked Reiner to direct it, and was looking over
Reiner's shoulder every step of the way. Goldman has gone on record
as saying that THE PRINCESS BRIDE is his personal favorite of all
the books he's written, and he wanted to make sure the movie was
not a cheap knock-off that had no flavor of the original.
I think the novel is better than the film, but I also think the film
was very successful in capturing the essence of the novel.
Brandon Joseph Rickman
|
|_The Princess Bride_ is not BY William Goldin. He abridged another book
|by an author (I forget his name) and only published the parts he felt
|were relevant to the story. He didn't rewrite anything although I
|remember reading that he did write a different reunion scene between
|Buttercup and Westley but because he was only editing the book, the
|publisher wouldn't let him include it.
(sorry if this is a late reply, I forgot that I has this mail hidden away
somewhere...)
If I recall correctly, a friend of mine really enjoyed the movie, and he had
heard that the book was enjoyable as well. After reading the novel, there
was some kind of author's note in the back explaining about the alternate
reunion scene. It said to mail an SASE or some such to this address
and they would mail you a copy of the removed scene. Well, my friend
just had to find out what all of this was about, so he sent off his letter and
a while later got a reply. No, he did not get the reunion scene, he got a
nice letter explaining something about how the estate of Morgenstern (sp) (the
supposed author of the original tale) was being handled by the court for some
reason, and that they would not be allow to send out the reunion scene as
promised. It was all a very clever stunt/hoax. I am trying to remember
whether this friend actually obtained a copy of the original story, but still
it was really written by Goldin. The whole business about the Princess Bride
being based on another fairy tale and the alternate ending and the estate
tied up in court was a fun way to give a seemingly believable background to
the story, even though one could easily see how it was just for fun.
I really wish I remembered this more clearly, as I have probably botched this
up quite badly, someone let me know if this story checks at all.
- + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - +
Thought for the decade:
"The 80's are dead, but so is L. Ron Hubbard, and he still writes books."
- Ashes
as...@oxy.edu
JAL...@psuvm.psu.edu
With all of the postings of everyone's favorite books, it is doubtful that
my list will have much impact. But you never know if someone with similar taste
as mine will give me a reply. So here is my list for the weary reader.
Any and all -- Clive Cussler
The Stand, It, salem's Lot, The Mist -- Stephen King
Watchers, Darkfall, Strangers -- Dean R. Koontz
Any and all (particularly the SPELLSINGER series) -- Alan Dean Foster
Tarzan the Ape Man -- Edgar Rice Burroughs
Shannara trilogy -- Terry Brooks
Chronicles of Prydain -- Lloyd Alexander (from my youth--excellent)
Jaws -- Peter Benchley
Close Encounters of the Third Kind -- Steven Spielberg
The Brotherhood of the Rose, The Fraternity of the Stone, The League of Night
and Fog -- David Morrell
There are several other books that I would probably considar favorites but
the titles escape me at the moment.
Any questions or comments are welcome from anyone who actually took the time
to read this list.
Michael Hock==================JAL124 at PSUVM=============Penn State University
Tom Craig
thought. I just want to add a note about Thomas Pynchon, one of my all time
favorite writers. Hoo-ha, the man can construct an English
sentence like nobody else, but this leads to a problem. The language in
"Gravity's Rainbow" is extremely challenging (kinda like Joyce) and the
length is potentially off-putting, though perhaps not for as erudite and
literate a crowd as this newgroup. In any case, I recommend starting with
"The Crying of Lot 49". Dust Jacket Summary? Sure, why not...
Oedipa Mass finds herself named executrix for the estate of her former
lover, Pierce Inveriety. (Great names in all of Pynchon's books). Clues
throughout his incredibly complicated business affairs inexorably lead her
in search of a vague conspiracy/underground call "The Tristero". The clues
include such diverse devices as a Jacobean morality play, an underground
electronic music bar in Southern CA, the lyrics of a thrash rock band, and
the behaviour of her psychiarist (who is constantly trying to trick her into
participating in experiments with hallucinogenic drugs). This is a
wonderful, funny, fascinating book
Tom Craig
t...@crayamid.cray.com
As far as I know, Cray Research's interest in literature (loosely defined)
is limited to reference manuals.
Tom Craig
>Fiction:
>
>Richard Bach Illusions
<stuff omitted>
>
>Ayn Rand The Fountainhead
> (Anyone else like both Rand and Bach? I know
> it sounds like a strange combination...)
<more stuff omitted>
Is commenting on favorite book lists rude? It's a little like commenting on
someone's childen, no matter what you say, it'll be taken personally. Okay,
no offense, I liked the rest of the list, but RAND and BACH? Both are
pseudo-philosophy. Bach at least has the decency to keep it short. I know,
I'm totally out of line here. I'm sorry, I can't help myself. Rand's
"Atlas Shrugged" made me so mad. I just wanted to find out the ending and
I had to plow through 900 unnecessary pages to get there. She could've put
it all into a short story.
Tom Craig
t...@crayamid.cray.com
The opinions are my own, and not worth the electrons it took to write them,
so don't get mad, just agree to disagree.
Mary Margaret Schuck
These are the books that are on the shelf closest to my bed--the ones
I can't bear to have out of reach and only lend to *very* responsible
people:
THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL by Baroness Emmuska Orczy. My first encounter with
the French Revolution and a very early favourite.
A PRINCESS OF MARS by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Another favourite from
when I was small (although it is not a children's book.)
THE SUMMER TREE by Guy Gavriel Kay. Amazing, vivid, powerful fantasy.
And he doesn't cheat when he writes.
Any of the early SAINT books by Leslie Charteris. Well written and
lots of fun.
Most Georgette Heyer romances. Some are silly beyond measure, but
they're all great for passing time.
RAINBOW VALLEY by Lucy Maud Montgomery. Her only adult novel. Bears
uncanny resemblance to Colleen McCullough's LADIES OF MISSALONGI.
THE SECRET GARDEN by Frances Hodgson Burnett.
All of the short stories of Oscar Wilde.
A WRINKLE IN TIME by Madeleine L'Engle. And all the rest of her
books.
84 CHARING CROSS ROAD by Helene Hanff. Necessary for all
bibliophiles
TOM BROWN'S SCHOOL DAYS by Hughes (?). Not an all-time favourite in
and of itself, but characteristic of a whole class that I love:
English Public School Stories.
Mary Margaret.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
My mailer hates everyone. Be sneaky.
sch...@ben.dciem.dnd.ca {decvax,attcan}!utzoo!dciem!ben!schuck
sch...@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca {decvax,attcan}!utzoo!dciem!dretor!schuck
Mike Godwin
>In any case, I recommend starting with
>"The Crying of Lot 49".
I respectfully disagree. I think it's best to read Pynchon's novels in
the order in which they were published--you pick up a lot of things in
CRYING that were developed in V, for example.
I don't think there's a *wrong* order in which to read Pynchon, but I
do think V is reasonably accessible, and gives a better demonstration
of the scope of Pynchon's talents than CRYING does. Thus, I think it's
a better place to begin.
--Mike
Mike Godwin, UT Law School | "I'm a whiz at trivia."
mnem...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |
(512) 346-4190 | --Johnny Mnemonic
|
the Rev. Mom
to have on my shelves for rereading and loaning (i.e. default
recommends) include:
Thorn Smith's NIGHT LIFE OF THE GODS. Some of the best comedy
and fantasy mix around; classic 1930's type humor, with
lots of sex, love, booze, fun, Greek gods, and step-ins.
Also recommended: THE STRAY LAMB, TOPPER and TURNABOUT.
Rafael Sabatini's SCARAMOUCHE. One of *the* best swashbuckler
novels around, and a semi-reliable signal for recognizing
kindred spirits.
The Ellen Terry/George Bernard Shaw Correspondence. Two very
strong, individualistic, delightful personalities talking
together about life, theatre, and art with wit, grace,
love, laughter and friendship. And it's real.
anything by Damon Runyon. "The Lemon Drop Kid," the *real* version
of "Little Miss Marker" (Markie was supposed to die,
y'know), "Butch Minds the Baby", all the stories he
writes are a masterpiece of compact prose and narrator
voice, and peopled with unique characters. All of the
movies based on his stories are pale imitations.
(especially GUYS AND DOLLS.) It's funny, violent,
heart-rending, ... I loved it.
Tom Stoppard's HAPGOOD. His lastest play, and one of the best.
In the words of the back cover :-), it's spies and
double-agents LeCarrecatured. Sparkling wit and some
really wonderful writing. Intricate structures and
wonderful double-blinds with a very good use of physics
principals as symbolic themes. (Of course, almost anything
by Stoppard is worthy of attention, but I recommend
are ROSENCRANZ & GUILDENSTERN ARE DEAD, THE REAL
THING, THE DOG IT WAS THAT DIED, and ARTIST DESCENDING A
STAIRCASE.)
Elizabeth Peters's DIE FOR LOVE. Best satire on romance novel
writing anywhere. The murder mystery part is secondary,
but fun, but it's Jacqueline Kirby's escapades I really
enjoy. NAKED ONCE MORE is the sequel, and even more
savage. (and yes, I much prefer Peters's THE MURDERS OF
RICHARD III to Tey's DAUGHTER OF TIME. Heresy! :-)
Recommended only for those who actually *read* romances, know
what Barbara Cartland novels are like, and are aware that
Jennifer Wilde is really a man.
Anne Bronte's THE TENANT OF WILDFELL HALL. (Yeah, I know, but I
read JANE EYRE so bloody long ago, that it's not a fave
any more, just part of my being. :-) The third Bronte
sister was one hell of a writer, and nobody knows her
name. <sigh> Yes, part of the pleasure of this book is
love-of-the-obscure, but the other 90% of my affection is
based on admiration-of-craft. There is a three-dimensioness
to the characters that I really love. Surprisingly modern.
Thornton Wilder's THE IDES OF MARCH. (oh, is my love of the
obscure rising to the surface! :-) Better than THE
MATCHMAKER, better than OUR TOWN, on par with THE SKIN OF
OUR TEETH, and THE BRIDGE OVER SAN LUIS REY, Wilder's THE
IDES OF MARCH is one of those books that just hit me
whang! right between the shoulder blades when I read it.
It grabbed deep and articulated a lot of things that had
been nebulous. It's written in the form of letters and
journal entries by Julius Caesar et al., in a non-chronological,
fascinatingly complex array. Definite good read.
Diane Duane's SO YOU WANT TO BE A WIZARD. Good use of magic
and just good writing. The sequels, DEEP WIZARDRY and
HIGH WIZARDRY are even stronger.
Helene Hanff's 84 CHARING CROSS ROAD. A joy for anybody
who likes the arts of book-hunting and correspondence.
I like all of Hanff's autobiographical stuff.
--Kathy Li aka the Rev. Mom
--
ka...@fps.com | She hated liqueur chocolates.
ucsd!celerity!kathy | She preferred to keep her vices separate.
DO NOT USE hanff!!!! | --NAKED ONCE MORE, Elizabeth Peters
---------------------'
Fiona Oceanstar
>
>The Brotherhood of the Rose, The Fraternity of the Stone, The League of Night
>and Fog -- David Morrell
>
If you like Morrell so much, you should check out _The Totem_--a fast-paced,
pull-out-the-stops horror novel set in the American West--sort of a police
procedural, sort of a mythological tale. It's really creepy--I got so
excited while reading it I had to go out for a run in mid-read, just to
shake off some of the unbearable tension--not a common event for me. It's
written before the ones you mention ('79): I checked it out of the local
library, but I've also seen it in used paperback racks. Let me know what
you think!
--Fiona O.
Sridbar Dasari
Looks like our tastes are pretty common.
Any and all -- Clive Cussler
If you liked Cussler, you'll probably like Robert Ludlum. Look him
up.. HIs plots are pretty complex, but almost all his books are
fast-paced and exciting. Suggestion: read Bourne Identity first (my
favorite).
Also, read Le Carre's The Spy Who Came in From The Cold (one of my
top-10 thrillers of all time)
Chronicles of Prydain -- Lloyd Alexander (from my youth--excellent)
Boy, I haven't heard anyone else mention Chronicles of Prydain in a
long, long time. That series was my favorite youth series. I recently
skimmed it about two summers ago. I was pretty surprised how much I
still enjoyed it. Most youth series are pretty boring when one looks
back, but I think Alexander is a great author for children. Do you know
if he did anything on the adult scale?
The Brotherhood of the Rose, The Fraternity of the Stone, The League of
Night
and Fog -- David Morrell
I also recently read David Morell's three books. I enjoyed them, but
wouldn't call them one of my favorite books. He writes a good story,
and tackles some serious subjects along with the action (The League of
Night and Fog about the survivors of the Holocaust). I liked LoNaF
best of his three books.
Shannara trilogy -- Terry Brooks
I thought this series was a waste of time. It seems too simplistic;
the story line was extremely predictable. I haven't read his latest
book, and I'm still debating whether to read it or not.
Watchers, Darkfall, Strangers -- Dean R. Koontz
Any and all (particularly the SPELLSINGER series) -- Alan Dean Foster
I haven't read any of these books. Is the SpellSinger series
sciece-fiction?
Must-Read: Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead, both by Orson Scott
Card
even if you don't like SF, you'll like these two books.
SHD
Jeff Dalton
>In article <71...@large.cray.com> t...@large.cray.com (Tom Craig) writes:
>>In any case, I recommend starting with "The Crying of Lot 49".
>
>I respectfully disagree. I think it's best to read Pynchon's novels in
>the order in which they were published--you pick up a lot of things in
>CRYING that were developed in V, for example.
Yes, but you can also pick them up reading the other way around.
Perhaps it's even more fun, interesting, or whatever to do it the
other way around.
Actually, I recommend the same order -- V, 49, Rainbow -- but for a
completely different reason. The idea is to provide some motivation
for finishing Gavity's Rainbow, which a number of people never quite
manage to do just because it's so long. I agree with the rest of
what you say about V:
I don't think there's a *wrong* order in which to read Pynchon,
but I do think V is reasonably accessible, and gives a better
demonstration of the scope of Pynchon's talents than CRYING does.
Thus, I think it's a better place to begin.
So then you know whether you like Pynchon in large doses. Next you
read Lot 49, which is fun and can be finished quickly, giving you
enough enthusiasm (if you like Pynchon) to get into G.R.
Of course, this isn't a particularly strong argument. But it worked
for me.
Sridbar Dasari
>THE SUMMER TREE by Guy Gavriel Kay. Amazing, vivid, powerful fantasy.
> And he doesn't cheat when he writes.
I agree. His story is refreshingly novel, with everything one can ask
for in a fantasy novel. Does anyone know if he continued his series?
I read the first book last month and couldn't find the rest of the
series.
SHD
Steven desJardins
>RAINBOW VALLEY by Lucy Maud Montgomery. Her only adult novel.
I'm curious why you say that. Rilla of Ingleside, which deals with the
horror and hardships of World War I, is in my opinion the most adult of
the Anne of Green Gables series. Kilmeny of the Orchard is a romance
which seems to be intended for an adult audience, and there are probably
other examples I can't think of at the moment. Since her short stories
(some of which achieve excellence, IMHO) are similar in style to her
novels, I'd guess she meant for her books to be enjoyed by adults as well
as children. (Although since most of her heroines are children or teens,
it's clear what her primary audience is.)
Of course, it's hard to say what a book's intended audience is. Perhaps
Lucy Maud Montgomery said on her deathbed, "I consider Rainbow Valley to
be my only truly adult novel," in which case I shall bang my head slowly
against the wall. But if the authority for your statement is less
irrefutable, I'd be interested in learning why you think that.
Steven desJardins
Roman Rozin
>I can't bear to have out of reach and only lend to *very* responsible
>people:
>THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL by Baroness Emmuska Orczy. My first encounter with
This is not rec.movies, but still...
One of the rare occasions when the movie (starring Leslie Howard
and Merle Oberon) is even better than the book, though the book is
quite good.
Roman Rozin
Philip Resnik
>In article <98...@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>, cs69sbe@sdcc18 (Save a plant) writes:
>>_The Princess Bride_ is not BY William Goldin.
>...it was really written by Goldin.
That's Goldman, folks. William Goldman wrote _The Princess Bride_.
And I believe William Golding wrote _The Lord of the Flies_.
Who the heck is William Goldin?
res...@grad1.cis.upenn.edu
Computer and Information Science, Moore School of Engineering
University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA 19104
Jon Conrad
>Massive digression: Anybody notice that the character of Scylla in
>Marathon Man turned hetero for the sequel, Brothers? Anybody know
>_why_? Was Goldman just afraid to write a book where the principal
>character was gay? This was curious -- it seemed like he went out of
>the way in Brothers to say he was straight, where there were all kinds
>of subtle hints in Marathon Man about his homosexuality.
Yep, I noticed this too. Are you and I the only ones, Pete? I sure
would like to know why, but I think it was, as you suggest, sheer lame-
brained cowardice. Does he have that much contempt for his readers,
that he thinks they won't notice? Does he have that much contempt for
gay people, that the thought of putting one at the center of his book is
unthinkable to him? One of the several bummers about Brothers, in any
case.
Jon
Barbara Hlavin
Although I'm sure we all know what someone means when they use the word
"favorite," I feel compelled to define my own use in the context of books:
(1) I read the book again and again; I never get tired of the language and
every reading reveals something new to me; it is a renewable source of joy
and experience of delight; (2) the book had such an enormous effect on me
that I feel it influenced the way in which I perceive and experience the
world.
In the first category, then, my all-time favorites:
Chekov - master of the short story, never yet surpassed. His eye for the
revealing detail and the compassion with which he writes about the human
condition also makes him one of my favorite writers-as-human-beings.
Jane Austen - this is a wickedly funny writer. Her novels are so much fun
to read!
Shakespeare - unequalled for the breadth of concerns, dramatic skill,
consistently brilliant use of the English language, and the creation of
characters of such depth and complexity that he has lent more eponyms to
our language than any other writer who has ever lived. His poetry ain't
bad, either.
Tom Stoppard - his imagination and linguistic playfulness make me giddy
with delight.
I like poetry, and these are some favorites: Emily Dickinson, Jules
Laforgue, Auden, Rilke, Yeats, Philip Larkin, Caroline Kizer, Blake,
Dylan Thomas, Gerard Manley Hopkins, Andrei Vozneshenski, Theodore
Roethke.
Huckleberry Finn - see below.
The Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald. The best novel he ever wrote; a perfect
jewel of a book, almost flawless. One of my five candidates for The
Great American Novel.
Jane Eyre - such an attitude on that Bronte woman! Last time I wound up
reading the entire book out loud for the sheer pleasure of it. My cats
thought I was deranged.
Joseph and His Brothers, Mann. The language, structure, and intellectual
power of this novel are utterly breathtaking.
The Metamorphosis, Kafka. I'm not sure I really enjoy Kafka, but who else
has ever made the importance of suffering so funny?
Beloved, Toni Morrison. Let me state unequivocally that I believe this to
be an American masterpiece. I was also blown away by Song of Solomon in
the '70s.
Category Two
The Brothers Karamozov - The most powerful novel I have ever read. The
afternoon I finished reading it I was so overwhelmed with emotion that on
the way to the bookcase I sank down on the edge of a chair for a long
while, my eyes closed, just holding the book. At that moment I felt
true reverence. This is THE definitive novel for me.
American Dream: An Immigrant's Quest, Angelo Pelligrini. The reason
this book is so significant for me is that it provided me with a paradigm
which even now informs the way I see the issue of constitutionally
established property rights vs. the needs of the common good.
Huckleberry Finn - I was nine years old when I first read this book, and
can still remember the profound shock I felt when Huck says, "All right,
then -- I'll GO to Hell!" I see the subtext of this novel as an
exploration of the dimension of moral choice.
The Sound and the Fury, Faulkner. My first experience of stream-of-
consciousness; I never fully recovered. What a very difficult literary
technique, and how brilliantly Faulkner uses it!
Boundaries of the Soul, June Singer. Description of Jungian analysis as
it is practiced by an imaginative, morally sensitive therapist and teacher.
It enlarges the reader's vision and enriches her sense of possibilities.
Call It Sleep, Henry Roth. A book of deep feeling, this is a moving
examination of the immigrant experience in early 20th century America.
Roth apears to have direct access to the consciousness of a child to
an extent that is positively uncanny. Warning: this book may remind
you of some things you'd just as soon forget. No one I have read has
ever so perceptively captured the acute anxieties experienced by very
young children.
Another Country, James Baldwin. I first read this when I was 13, and
found it such a powerful exploration of the relationship of love and
guilt in a context of racial and sexual ambiguity that I was not the
same person after reading it.
The Gates of the Forest, Elie Wiesel. I read this in the early '70s, and
followed it up with Night, his first, and largely autobiographical, novel.
Though I have been tempted many times to write to an author, this is the
only time I have actually done so. His reply said, in part, "Know only
this: I believe in joy."
I think it was Mike Godwin who wrote that he tends to think more in terms
of writers and categories than specific books, and that's my own
tendency. Some of my favorite contemporary fiction writers: Donald
Barthelme, Iris Murdoch, Alice Munro, Raymond Carver, Robertson Davies,
Grace Paley. Another, non-fiction, writer I have recently discovered and
like a lot: Witold Rybczynski, who I believe is an architect. I can
strongly recommend his Home: A Short History of an Idea. (I bought it
because I liked the title.)
I also like essays. My book club, The Reader's Subscription, just offered
a second edition of a collection that I have relished many times, State
of the Language. This is a superb collection, especially for language
mavens. Another is a little paperback I picked up years ago in, oh, I
dont know, a Goodwill or someplace like that. It had been discarded from
a local high school library, and it is called 50 Great Essays. These are
not your standard anthology essays. For example: how many of you think
of Schopenhauer as a humorist? Me either, but his essay "On Noise" is
wonderfully funny. (There is some question as to whether the humor is
intentional, or if he is just so bombastically bad-tempered on a subject
that pushes my own buttons that I find it engaging.) I very much like
anything by Stephen Jay Gould, and E.B. White should have been declared a
national treasure.
Another favorite category of reading for me is biography, autobiography,
journals and diaries and collections of letters. I would have been a
real menace as a housemaid, as I have an insatiable curiosity about the
way people live their lives and how they reflect upon them in private
documents. Some favorites here: Pepys, that old reprobate; Cellini's
autobiography (I have a weakness for scoundrels -- am I the only person
alive who has read all six volumes of Casanova's memoirs?), collections
of writers' letters, such as those of Flannery O'Commor, Chekov, Virginia
Woolf. For those who share my taste, let me recommend a true masterpiece
of the genre: Lark Rise to Candleford, an enchanting, absorbing triology
about growing up in rural England in the mid-nineteenth century, by
Flora Thompson. I honestly believe this is a work of genius.
What it comes down to is that I will read anything that is well-written.
The subject doesn't matter. Subject is secondary to style for me,
although by saying that I do not mean to imply that I am indifferent to
the appeals of internal logic, coherent argument, moral values, or just
a whacking good story. I choose books by whim, recommendation, reviews,
familiarity, coercion, loyalty, obligation and obsession. Sometimes...
books choose me.
One last thing (if anyone is still with me -- the subject of books brings
out the windbag in me): I'm curious about those posters who say they
don't like poetry. Why don't you like poetry?
Subrata Sircar
I too greatly enjoyed this series, mostly because the characters got me
involved with what was going on. Brightly woven! In fact, all three books
are out (I got mine from the Science Fiction Book Club) and you should be
able to order them through Books in Print, if nothing else.
"I hate Schrodinger. I just have my doubts about a man who could take off for
Vienna with some unidentified female to keep him company and come back with
one of the most revolutionary (and baffling) mathematical concepts currently
known to mankind." - Diane Mulso, 1990
--
Subrata K. Sircar, Prophet & Charter Member of SPAMIT(tm)
sksi...@phoenix.princeton.edu {} I deny ever even thinking the above.
"We expect them [Salvadoran officials] to work toward the elimination
of human rights." - VP Dan Quayle
C. Wekx
Breytenbach _The confessions of an Albino terrorist_
Gogol _Death Souls_ (recommended!)
Solsjenitsyn _The Gulag Archipel_
Unfortunately I haven't got that much time to read novels anymore. Most books
I have read recently are scientific or philosophical.
Constantijn
Dorai Sitaram
>One last thing (if anyone is still with me -- the subject of books brings
>out the windbag in me): I'm curious about those posters who say they
>don't like poetry. Why don't you like poetry?
The way I see it, poetry, in order to justify itself, has to strain at
being different, talk funny, feel too much, stand on one leg,
overstate (or understate) a lot (the keyword is "lot"), use outlandish
language tricks, -- in short, must exploit every trick under the sun
to constantly prove that what it says could not have been better said
in just "plain" prose. It's interesting that the worst insult one
could level at poetry is that it's like prose.
Prose, on the other hand, if you made it simpler, prune all the style
tics, still stays prose, and very often, becomes _better_ prose. Call
somebody's prose "poetic", and s/he really wouldn't mind, i.e., a
prose-writer can do anything s/he wants without being cornered into
_having_ to do it for reasons of style.
Poetry artificial -- prose natural.
Crudely, that's why I don't particularly like poetry (not same as
"hate": I'd just rather read prose than poetry. I don't mind the
occasional island of poetry, quoted or excerpted in a sea of prose.
But I'll stick to roughing out the rude simplicity of the sea rather
than grow fat on the island :-]).
--dorai
ps: And you thought _you_ were the windbag!
I.V.Lavigne
>The way I see it, poetry, in order to justify itself, has to strain at
>being different, talk funny, feel too much, stand on one leg,
>overstate (or understate) a lot (the keyword is "lot"), use outlandish
>language tricks, -- in short, must exploit every trick under the sun
>to constantly prove that what it says could not have been better said
>in just "plain" prose. It's interesting that the worst insult one
>could level at poetry is that it's like prose.
(Stuff deleted, concerning prose)
>Poetry artificial -- prose natural.
>
>--dorai
OK, so I'm an English student and my point of view might be biased, but I
still think you're being a bit hard on the old poetry lark, here. I won't go
through the objections to poetry one by one, but perhaps it might be useful
to remember such "wonderful" and "natural" writers as (of course this is
totally out of the blue :-) L. Ron Hubbard (retch) and, totally unconnected,
William Seward Burroughs (of _Naked Lunch_ fame, whom I actually like but who
is certainly not natural). It would be interesting to know whom Dorai thought
particularly good, especially in the "more matter less art" spirit (which is
laudable, I'm not flaming, ok?). If anyone tries to tell me James Joyce is
natural, I shall pound them! B-)
But we're talking about poetry...I can't help thinking Dorai's impression of
poetry is so bad because of all the verbose poets we're forced to read (and
make appreciative noises about) at school. One counter example should be
enough to state my point, namely that not /all/ poets are verbose and boring
and artificial. Take a look at the "Confessional" poets (Lowell, Berryman,
Sexton and Plath) for the "less is more" type of style. The Beat poets too,
Corso, Ferlinghetti and so on. Chuck T.S. Eliot and Pound out the window (not
because they're that bad but because they /do/ use "outlandish language
tricks"--which also served a purpose, but that's another story). Check out
Ginsberg in his calmer moments. And most of the women poets of the 60s and
70s, Adrienne Rich for example. And so on.
What's that? Who said I was taking a course in American poetry and prose?
That's a base and slanderous accusation! I'm really an astrophysician with
undiscovered talents! :-) (no comments on that, please!) Anyway, this wasn't
a flame, like I said. I just thought the poets needed a bit of defending
there. Admittedly poetry takes more getting in to--but even that's a
generalisation. Try it--for all you know you might like it! (God forbid)
--Isabelle.
--
Pandora (Isabelle Lavigne) Keynes College@ukc <raven>
"Whaddaya mean, we're lost?!?"
For French speakers: "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose..."
Bill Oliver
>being different, talk funny, feel too much, stand on one leg,
>overstate (or understate) a lot (the keyword is "lot"), use outlandish
>language tricks, -- in short, must exploit every trick under the sun
>to constantly prove that what it says could not have been better said
>in just "plain" prose.
>
>tics, still stays prose, and very often, becomes _better_ prose. Call
>somebody's prose "poetic", and s/he really wouldn't mind, i.e., a
>prose-writer can do anything s/he wants without being cornered into
>_having_ to do it for reasons of style.
>
>Poetry artificial -- prose natural.
>
Excuse me if I am repeating someone else's reply -- I am still stuck in
the 2-day archive window and miss bunches o' stuff.
I'd be willing to bet a quarter that one of the reasons that you don't
like poetry, especially modern poetry, is that you don't hear it read
by a person who is adept at reading poetry.
Consider the difference between reading a screenplay and watching a
performance. Sure, it *is* possible to enjoy many plays by sitting
down and reading them silently, but the bottom line is that
a play is meant to be performed; only reading a play diminishes
the impact of the work. Similarly, poetry is (generally) a performing
art, and the impact of a poem can be as dependent upon the quality
of the reader as a play is dependent on the quality of the actors.
Certainly, some poetry is meant to be viewed on the page as well;
placement of word can be important. Generally, however, the sound
is almost as important as the image.
I have some kin who are professional poets in NYC. The first time I
saw a book of Libby's poetry, I thought "Boy, this really sucks. People
pay *money* for this stuff?" Then, I heard a good reader read some of
her poetry. It was great. It made all the difference.
I think that's why folk who generally don't like poetry tend to have
more patience with works which have rhyme and a strong meter. It is
much easier to "hear" a lyrical poem in your head while reading silently
than it is to internally construct a performance of some more modern works.
Like the appreciation of any art, once you become a bit seasoned more
things fall into place and it becomes progressively easier to "hear"
a poem read silently.
Here's something to try if you don't like poetry. Go out and get a
copy of Robert Frost's collected works. Read Stopping by Woods on a
Snowy Evening (excuse title mistakes -- I am lousy at remembering
titles correctly). You will, I guarantee, like it. Everyone does,
whether or not they like poetry.
Now, turn to The Death of the Hired Hand (or something like that).
If you don't like poetry, you will either not like it or will not
really see it as different than OK prose with poor punctuation.
Now, go out and find a copy of Robert Frost reading his own poetry.
I used to have a copy, but an ex-girlfriend borrowed it and I am not
in a position to ask for it to be returned. I thus can't give you the
brand, but it's around as a commercial cassette. Sit down and listen
to Frost read his own stuff. Just listen to anything except the
above two works for a while, so you can get used to his voice.
Then, listen to these two works. I'll betcha your opinion of the
Death of the Hired Hand (or whatever the correct title is) jumps
tremendously.
Finally, sure, some poetry uses obvious artiface with strange images
and language "tricks", and such. Some of it is not as contrived as
it seems, because its character changes when performed. Some
of the images and such *are* overstated or contrived, but then, this
is also true in prose. Exaggeration and contrast are common
techniques in prose -- Tom Robbins comes to mind immediately.
Convoluted and contrived descriptions of quirky scenes and individuals
are also common -- think of Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum, or
of Love in the Time of Cholera. I think the difference is that,
in poetry, there is less "padding" of other description and action,
so that overdone imagery is more starkly obvious.
In addition, poetry, because it is usually much shorter than prose,
shows it's faults more easily. Just as there is purple prose,
images and language tricks in poetry can be done ineptly. But that
makes it bad poetry; it does not make poetry bad.
Bill Oliver
Cloyd Goodrum
>
>I think that's why folk who generally don't like poetry tend to have
>more patience with works which have rhyme and a strong meter. It is
>much easier to "hear" a lyrical poem in your head while reading silently
>than it is to internally construct a performance of some more modern works.
There is some modern poetry that can be as sonorous as poetry with
more traditional rhyme and meter. Ezra Pound's "Cino" and many of his other
early works come to mind. I have often found myself enjoying his poetry
when I didn't understand it because it is so musical.
Cloyd Goodrum III
--
Cloyd Goodrum III
UNCC Computer Science Department
Charlotte, N.C.
unccvax!goo...@mcnc.org
Tara C. Woods
>my list will have much impact. But you never know if someone with similar taste
>as mine will give me a reply. So here is my list for the weary reader.
>
>Any and all -- Clive Cussler
>
Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!! I realize that this is VERY lame, but I have to
get this out! SOMEONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD READS CLIVE CUSSLER
NOVELS!!!!!!! Yeah! Which one was your favorite? Mine is
probably _Cyclops_, simply because of the intricacy of the
whole plot, but I love _Treasure_ for the idea that the
Alexandria library is still out there someplace.
two...@wellco.bitnet
two...@lucy.wellesley.edu
"Why is abbreviated such a long word?"
Jeff Dalton
>In article <72...@brazos.Rice.edu> do...@titan.rice.edu (Dorai Sitaram) writes:
>>The way I see it, poetry, in order to justify itself, has to strain at
>>being different, talk funny, feel too much, stand on one leg,
>>overstate (or understate) a lot (the keyword is "lot"), use outlandish
>>language tricks, -- in short, must exploit every trick under the sun
> <a good point that prose, e.g, Burroughs, Joyce, can be full of
> language tricks>
Indeed, we might also think of the New Wave in SF that was sometimes
alost nothing but language tricks.
>Chuck T.S. Eliot and Pound out the window (not because they're that
>bad but because they /do/ use "outlandish language tricks"--which also
>served a purpose, but that's another story). Check out ... And most of
>the women poets of the 60s and 70s, Adrienne Rich for example. ...
Humm, some of Pound is completely straightforward (eg, petals on a
wet, black bough) and Eliot, I find, is quite easy to read. On the
other hand, I've never much enjoyed Adrienne Rich. Well, tastes
vary; this is nothing new. But I think we should bear in mind that
recommending particular poets can backfire if they aren't liked.
Nonetheless, I would quite seriously suggest reading Eliot's
_The Wasteland_ together with Wendy Cope's parodies in _Making
Cocoa for Kingsley Amis_. Indeed, don't take things too seriously.
alan joseph Popa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phx8d1_Ugh0&list=PLzLp2nG3Ze0iuvPvYpDLBaIiUxJO9N9Ou