Reading over Yuletide
Francis Muir
elegant Picador edition - and Malcolm Bowie's *Proust Among The Stars*.
Both mentioned in the Michaelmas issue of *Oxford Today*.
Wherein also a melancholy Letter to the Editor from Christina Hardyment
listing Elizabeth Jennings' address in a "small residential home for the
elderly in Bampton, Oxfordshire. However, she is rather short of kindred
spirits there and it would be marvellous if any old friends or admirers
of her poetry could occasionally visit or write".
I thought I had no regrets. but missing out on this opportunity to
re-visit a once particular friend proves me wrong.
j...@radidelmex.net
a sequel to "Miracle on 34th Street", look no further than this fairy-tale-ish
peek at the workers in a Manhattan department store! In it the security guards
are tough (with a heart of gold), the window designers are fruity, bag ladies
pay for stolen food with 3 nods and ... Santa is a Bowery bum.
Truly the kind of movie Jim Carrey now does (he's re-capped his front tooth and
is trying re-mould himself as Jimmy Stewart). Someone should suggest this
book to him. Now in looking through IMDB to discern if it was made into a
movie, or at least a Hallmark special, (it hasn't) Kotzwinkle doesn't
even get a writing credit for E.T. - that goes to Melissa Mathison,
Francis Coppola's babysitter. There is no justice for authors!
Meg Worley
Francis writes:
>Edith Wharton's *A Motor-Flight Through France* - alas, not in the
>elegant Picador edition - and Malcolm Bowie's *Proust Among The Stars*.
>Both mentioned in the Michaelmas issue of *Oxford Today*.
For me it's *Fred Bason's Diary*, which I recommend to everyone's
attention in the strongest terms. (Don't recall it, Fido; I'll
pass the Green copy on to you when I'm done.) Bason began as a
slum bookseller in Walworth and through dint of hard work and
charm pranced his way upward in London literary society, although
how high I won't know until I read *The Last Bason*. Or I could
go look him up in the DNB.
His diary is immensely appealing. As a relentless "First Nighter"
and "Galleryite," he manages to meet and correspond with
remarkable people -- Baroness Orczy, Arthur Rackham, Gertrude
Ederle -- and both Arnold Bennett and Somerset Maugham help him
out along the way. Fred himself is quite funny, and he's got
lots of little anecdotes, including one about "a person named
Muir -- probably Scotch" and another about slumming in a thieves'
den with Arnold Bennett (in which, when someone asks what A.B.,
which Fred has been calling Arnie, stands for, Bennett says
blythely, "All Backside!").
I normally don't like diaries very much -- too quotidian and
dreary for my taste. But Fred only writes in his when he's
got something particular to say. It's not always celebrity
gossip -- sometimes it's a triumph or reversal with his
business, a girl, or the dogs -- but it's always entertaining.
He must have been planning to publish his diary from the
moment he started it (at age 15).
Rage away,
meg
--
Meg Worley _._ m...@steam.stanford.edu _._ Comparatively Literate
j...@radidelmex.net
> Truly the kind of movie Jim Carrey now does
I want the younger, funnier, Jim Carrey back!
I want the younger, funnier, Will Smith back!
I want the younger, funnier, Woody Allen back!
Feel free to add your own ...
Paul Ilechko
needs some dedicated reading time, and it's too big to carry around.
j...@radidelmex.net
> I'm planning to read The Tale of Genji - it looks like the kind of book that
> needs some dedicated reading time, and it's too big to carry around.
Tanizaki translated it into (modern) Japanese, which must be excellent,
but I don't know if anyone has ever translated that into English.
ObBook: The Tail of Benji
David J. Loftus
I want the younger, funnier, John Belushi back.
Steve Hayes
ploughing my way through "Gravity's rainbow", having seen it mentioned here
quite a lot. So I thought I'd try to see why it is that people talk about
Pynchon.
I'm still not sure what to make of it, but I will say it's better than "Mason
& Dixon". I don't mind reading 17th-century books in 17th-century style and
typography, but reading one written in the 20th century made me feel
uncomfortable, and I gave up.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: haye...@yahoo.com
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/litmain.htm
tejas
"Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c202a68...@news.saix.net...
> After rereading all the Harry Potter books (after seeing the film), I'm
now
> ploughing my way through "Gravity's rainbow", having seen it mentioned
here
> quite a lot. So I thought I'd try to see why it is that people talk about
> Pynchon.
>
> I'm still not sure what to make of it, but I will say it's better than
"Mason
> & Dixon". I don't mind reading 17th-century books in 17th-century style
and
> typography, but reading one written in the 20th century made me feel
> uncomfortable, and I gave up.
Wuss. Some books should make you feel uncomfortable.
ObExample: THE MAN WITHOUT QUANTITY by Musil
E. coli
No, no. He has a point. _Mason & Dixon_ (set in the 18th century actually)
is so difficult that there haven't been any successful attempts, as far
as I know, at bringing out a supplementary reader's guide. GR should be clear
sailing. I couldn't put Slothrop down from beginning to end.
jimC
Marko Amnell
London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Venice, Moscow, St Petersburg, and
Jerusalem, with their amazingly detailed three-dimensional colour
cutaway drawings that explain the parts and history of all the
most important buildings, streets and quarters. If you're not
already familiar with these remarkable guides, you can find out
more about them by visiting the Dorling Kindersley website at:
http://travel.dk.com/uk/travel_guides.html
Here, for example, is a page of their Paris travel guide that
shows the Pantheon (click on the little magnifying glass below
the picture to see a full-screen version):
http://ukstore.dk.com/shop/shared/product_m_spread.asp?isbn=0751311928&pid=158
j del col
and Buzzatti's --The Tartar Steppe-- and Tournier's --The Ogre--.
J. Del Col
marko....@afxnews.com
http://travel.dk.com/uk/travel_guides.html
http://ukstore.dk.com/shop/shared/product_m_spread.asp?isbn=0751311928&pid=158
----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web -----
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j del col
Quantity? Surely you're joking, Mr. Samsel.
J. Del Col
Dylan Bryan-Dolman
> No, no. He has a point. _Mason & Dixon_ (set in the 18th century >
actually) is so difficult that there haven't been any successful
> attempts, as far as I know, at bringing out a supplementary
> reader's guide. GR should be clear sailing. I couldn't put Slothrop
> down from beginning to end.
Mason & Dixon and Vineland were so silly that they made me feel like an
idiot for thinking V. was brilliant. In Vineland he was just clearing the
pipes, but since the book was straightforward it kind of gave you a plain
look into the mind of the man (especially into what he thinks is funny) and
one thought, "Ook."
And if M&D were half as rich in language as it is complicated -- there's the
same sense you're listening in on someone else's private mind-experiment as
there is in for example Eco, but absolutely none of the conviction that that
game would be wonderful to join if only you could. I read M&D (some of it)
just thinking, "Well, you're certainly enjoying yourself, aren't you dear?"
I know, I should still pick up GR, but I hardly ever read these days, sadly,
sadly....
Dylan
=dbd=
Don Tuite
wrote:
>
>
>No, no. He has a point. _Mason & Dixon_ (set in the 18th century actually)
>is so difficult that there haven't been any successful attempts, as far
>as I know, at bringing out a supplementary reader's guide. GR should be clear
>sailing. I couldn't put Slothrop down from beginning to end.
Actually, it does kinda drag between the English candy episode and the
pig song. I prefer _V_.
Don
E. coli
I was being sarcastic. I liked _Mason & Dixon_, even if it is hokey history
set
among events that happened. It, and not Slothrop, is the book I couldn't put
down.
jimC
Don Tuite
wrote:
Is it perhaps because Mason and Dixon are as close to real characters
as TP is likely to limn? (I hear Ted demanding, "What about Pig
Bodine?!") I can see that. But for narrative verve, even with (or
especially with) diversions like Rachel Owlglass' nosejob, _V_ is the
one that charges along.
Don
Meg Worley
The Splittin' Finn writes:
>The Eyewitness travel guides for New York City, Washington DC,
>London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Venice, Moscow, St Petersburg, and
>Jerusalem, with their amazingly detailed three-dimensional colour
>cutaway drawings that explain the parts and history of all the
>most important buildings, streets and quarters. If you're not
>already familiar with these remarkable guides, you can find out
I find the DK travel guides an attractive nuisance. They draw
one in with nice design and charming diagrams, but they are
compeletely useless for almost any travel-related purpose. The
maps are frequently wrong (as is the history); the information
isn't thorough; the writers are trained ad-monkeys; the
recommendations are long out of date; and the pages are glossy,
so that the book is heavy. The whole series is geared toward
diagramaphiles and cartoholics who've taken leave of their
critical faculties.
Joan Marie Shields
>I'm planning to read The Tale of Genji - it looks like the kind of book that
>needs some dedicated reading time, and it's too big to carry around.
It's pretty thick but not all that dense. It's basically about the life
of a Japanese prince doing what princes do - you know, drink and look for
women, that sort of thing. There's some politics in there as well.
It's more a reflection of the life-style and culture of a particular
class of 12th century Japanese. It's very interestesting in that regard.
yiwf,
joan
--
Joan Shields jshi...@uci.edu http://www.ags.uci.edu/~jshields
University of California - Irvine School of Social Ecology
Department of Environmental Analysis and Design
I do not purchase services or products from unsolicited e-mail advertisements.
Meg Worley
JimW wrote:
>> I want the younger, funnier, Jim Carrey back!
>> I want the younger, funnier, Will Smith back!
>> I want the younger, funnier, Woody Allen back!
>I want the younger, funnier, John Belushi back.
I want the younger, funnier Meg Worley back.
It's only coincidental, I assure you, that she is also the
thinner, more flexible, less insomniac Meg Worley.
ObBook: *October Light*, in which John Garner proves that
you're never too old to get into apple fights.
tejas
"j del col" <del...@ab.edu> wrote in message
news:4dc68fdd.01121...@posting.google.com...
> "tejas" <tbsa...@infi.net> wrote in message
news:<9vpj6a$u98$3...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...
> > "Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3c202a68...@news.saix.net...
> > > I'm still not sure what to make of it, but I will say it's better than
> > "Mason
> > > & Dixon". I don't mind reading 17th-century books in 17th-century
style
> > and
> > > typography, but reading one written in the 20th century made me feel
> > > uncomfortable, and I gave up.
> >
> > Wuss. Some books should make you feel uncomfortable.
> >
> > ObExample: THE MAN WITHOUT QUANTITY by Musil
>
>
>
> Quantity? Surely you're joking, Mr. Samsel.
>
> J. Del Col
Moi?
--
Ted Samsel
tbsa...@infi.net
http://home.infi.net/~tbsamsel
David J. Loftus
> > Wuss. Some books should make you feel uncomfortable.
> >
> > ObExample: THE MAN WITHOUT QUANTITY by Musil
>
> Quantity? Surely you're joking, Mr. Samsel.
Mr. Samsel never jokes.
ObBook: _Demand Without Calumny_, Robert Mucilage
Paul Ilechko
Don Tuite wrote:
Definitely V is better, and so is Crying of Lot 49, which is practically perfect in
it's own way. GR would be great if it didn't fall apart at the end.
John S. Watson
>
> I find the DK travel guides an attractive nuisance. They draw
> one in with nice design and charming diagrams, but they are
> compeletely useless for almost any travel-related purpose. The
> maps are frequently wrong (as is the history); the information
> isn't thorough; the writers are trained ad-monkeys; the
> recommendations are long out of date; and the pages are glossy,
> so that the book is heavy. The whole series is geared toward
> diagramaphiles and cartoholics who've taken leave of their
> critical faculties.
True, totally useless when actually traveling.
If I see them at used booksales, I'll buy them
if I can get them for 25 cents or less ...
for b
P Settli
anything by him but decided to order these after reading a review
of him in the LRB.
Am also going to read a couple of George Pelecanos mysteries;
_A Firing Offense_, and _Right as Rain_. I read an interview with
him in "The Onion" and thought I'd give him a try.
On Jim C's recommendation, I was also planning on reading
Naipaul's _Among the Believers_ but was told by my favorite
bookstore that it's out of print. I can order it through the
library, but since we moved to a different county this year I have
to get a new library card. So far I haven't managed to drag my ass
up there to get it done.
--PS
Francis Muir
I fancy the much-despised Little Red Books; not
Chairman Mao's but the ones that Karl Baedeker
of Leipsic put together in the final, flourishing
days of the Austro-Hungarian empire.
ObHeineMoment: Mein Kaiser, mein Kaiser gefangen!
David J. Loftus
> On Jim C's recommendation, I was also planning on reading
> Naipaul's _Among the Believers_ but was told by my favorite
> bookstore that it's out of print. I can order it through the
> library, but since we moved to a different county this year I have
> to get a new library card. So far I haven't managed to drag my ass
> up there to get it done.
Disgraceful! That's just about the first thing I get done whenever
I relocate.
David Loftus
P Settli
"David J. Loftus" <Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us> wrote in message
news:5656f475.01122...@posting.google.com...
I know. My excuse is that I've got such a backlog of unread books
laying around that I haven't needed the library and, besides, they
never have what I want anyway. Everything I want has to be ordered
through the Inter-Library Loan Program (_Among the Believers_
being just one example). Of course, I *bought* all these unread
books. Most could have been borrowed from the library and been
returned unread.
Got to change my ways.
ObSong: John Conley's "Busted"
A nice photo of downtown my town:
http://www.fet.kommune.no/bilder/fetsund.htm
A book I'll never get around to reading: _Fast Food Nation_
--PS
j...@radidelmex.net
> A book I'll never get around to reading: _Fast Food Nation_
I just read it, it's about what you expect from some Rolling Stone articles
turned into a book. Fast food as the mother of all American ills:
Death of the family farm ... caused by fast food
Western sprawl ... caused by fast food
Mad cow disease ... caused by fast food
Plus them dern teenagers are spittin' in your tacos!
E. coli
Fast women, fast living, and fast food. There's a country novelty tune
in there.
--
I wouldn't sell the family farm short just yet, though. Take a stroll up
the central states, and across the Prairie Provinces, and you'll find it's
alive and well, and bright and bushy-tailed, a-rearing for the morning's
sun, with qualities like those Garrison Keillor gives to his mythical
town: "Where the women are strong, the men are good looking and all of
the children are above average." (*)
Okay. Enough of this hokey shit.
(*) The words are apparently inspired by Will Durant's appraisal of the
Etruscans.
ObBook: Ian Frazier, _Great Plains_
jimC
j...@radidelmex.net
1. Kentucky Fried Chicken used to be the #1 fast food, until it was
overtaken by the Evil Empire in the 60s.
2. Walt Disney and Ray Kroc were in the same WWI outfit. Ray was envious
of Walt's success, and Walt politely refused to put a McDonald's at
Disneyland, opting for more well known (at the time) restaurants.
After Ray made his billions, he wanted to open a Western themed amusement
park; the board of directors convinced him to add Playlands to MickeyD's
instead.
3. In-N-Out burger is consistantly rated as the best fast food.
4. What is a radura?
P Settli
"E. coli" <e_c...@pacbell.net> wrote
(snip)
> I wouldn't sell the family farm short just yet, though. Take a
stroll up
> the central states, and across the Prairie Provinces, and you'll
find it's
> alive and well, and bright and bushy-tailed, a-rearing for the
morning's
> sun,
Did you intentionally skip the prairie states? Up through the
central states and into Canada? Reason I ask is that it's my
understanding that the prairie states are hurting bad.
Depopulation, ranchers going bust and the towns they support going
bust with them, land being abandoned, land going back to native
grasses, and talk of turning large swaths of land back into
"Buffalo Commons."
ObSong: Hank Williams Jr. "A Country Boy Can Survive"
--PS
j del col
Ob Strangelove moment: " Mein Fuhrer, I can walk!"
J. Del Col
E. coli
>
> "E. coli" <e_c...@pacbell.net> wrote
>
> (snip)
>
> > I wouldn't sell the family farm short just yet, though. Take a
> > stroll up the central states, and across the Prairie Provinces, and you'll
> > find it's alive and well, and bright and bushy-tailed, a-rearing for the
> > morning's sun,
>
> Did you intentionally skip the prairie states? Up through the
> central states and into Canada? Reason I ask is that it's my
> understanding that the prairie states are hurting bad.
"Central states", "plains states", "the prairies", and the "Midwest"
(excluding the Canadian portion) all mean about the same thing, although
some might say it means all of the Cental Time Zone which takes in much of
Appalachia and the Southeast, which aren't part of the plains at all.
And "Midwest," a broader term than the others, goes as far east as Ohio.
Specifically, I meant the region from Texas to Manitoba, i.e., Oklahoma,
Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, and North Dakota, and Manitoba, Saskatchewan
and Alberta. Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois
and the plains portions of Montana, Wyoming and Colorado are also part
of this. The American portion of these lands overlap the Louisiana
Purchase lands, acquired in 1803 from France for a pittance.
(With apologies for imposing North American geography lessons on the
rest of the world. Aussies, etc., are urged to continue as you were.)
> Depopulation, ranchers going bust and the towns they support going
> bust with them, land being abandoned, land going back to native
> grasses, and talk of turning large swaths of land back into
> "Buffalo Commons."
It's a mixed bag out there. The people of this region made another
well known state, California. But I can attest that the highways go
in both directions.
jimC
SubGenius
Paul Ilechko (pile...@att.net) wrote:
: Definitely V is better, and so is Crying of Lot 49, which is practically
: perfect in it's own way. GR would be great if it didn't fall apart
: at the end.
+---------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
Ah, Your Humble Narrator was confident that slogging through the fen
of posts burbling on about the lastest films (or rather `movies')
with book tie-ins without becoming enmired would be rewarded with a
bit of that good 'ol r.a.b. deadpan humour.
Yours etc.,
SubGenius
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David J. Loftus
> "David J. Loftus" <Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us> wrote in message
> news:5656f475.01122...@posting.google.com...
> > "P Settli" <pet...@online.no> wrote in message
> news:<9vsg5s$hg8ui$1...@ID-28773.news.dfncis.de>...
> >
> > > On Jim C's recommendation, I was also planning on reading
> > > Naipaul's _Among the Believers_ but was told by my favorite
> > > bookstore that it's out of print. I can order it through the
> > > library, but since we moved to a different county this year I
> have
> > > to get a new library card. So far I haven't managed to drag my
> ass
> > > up there to get it done.
> >
> >
> > Disgraceful! That's just about the first thing I get done
> whenever
> > I relocate.
>
> I know. My excuse is that I've got such a backlog of unread books
> laying around that I haven't needed the library
Oh, I have those too, but I read only one book at home for every
eight or ten I borrow from the library and read. The former will
"always be there" but this library book has to be returned in a
few weeks!
> and, besides, they never have what I want anyway.
That's often the case for me, except that I invariably find
something ELSE I'd just as soon read, too.
David Loftus
j...@radidelmex.net
have gotten over the years. Reagan gutted the inspection program, and
under (short-sighted) pressure from the beef trusts all the inspector do now
is call up the slaughterhouse, tell them they're going to be inspected, show
up a week later, wave a magic OK wand, then go out to lunch together.
IMHO, the US is heading for a mad-cow epidemic like Britian just went
through, which will temporarily kill off the public taste for hamburger, which
will drive many of the little joints out of business (maybe even topple
MickeyD's), which will cause a public outcry for better inspections.
Larisa
> Paul Ilechko <pile...@att.net> wrote:
> >I'm planning to read The Tale of Genji - it looks like the kind of book that
> >needs some dedicated reading time, and it's too big to carry around.
>
> It's pretty thick but not all that dense. It's basically about the life
> of a Japanese prince doing what princes do - you know, drink and look for
> women, that sort of thing. There's some politics in there as well.
>
> It's more a reflection of the life-style and culture of a particular
> class of 12th century Japanese. It's very interestesting in that regard.
Make sure your copy has plenty of footnotes. It's a completely
different frame of reference, and I found myself referring to the
footnotes quite often.
LM
Larisa
I didn't get too much out of V either. It was fun, but not as fun as Eco.
LM
Larisa
> "P Settli" <pet...@online.no> wrote in message news:<9vtb93$hnmq2$1...@ID-28773.news.dfncis.de>...
> > "David J. Loftus" <Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us> wrote in message
> > news:5656f475.01122...@posting.google.com...
> > > "P Settli" <pet...@online.no> wrote in message
> news:<9vsg5s$hg8ui$1...@ID-28773.news.dfncis.de>...
> > >
> > > > On Jim C's recommendation, I was also planning on reading
> > > > Naipaul's _Among the Believers_ but was told by my favorite
> > > > bookstore that it's out of print. I can order it through the
> > > > library, but since we moved to a different county this year I
> have
> > > > to get a new library card. So far I haven't managed to drag my
> ass
> > > > up there to get it done.
> > >
> > >
> > > Disgraceful! That's just about the first thing I get done
> whenever
> > > I relocate.
> >
> > I know. My excuse is that I've got such a backlog of unread books
> > laying around that I haven't needed the library
>
> Oh, I have those too, but I read only one book at home for every
> eight or ten I borrow from the library and read. The former will
> "always be there" but this library book has to be returned in a
> few weeks!
I somehow never manage to pull myself together enough to return
library books on time. They always end up more expensive than at the
used bookstore, so I seldom use the library.
Though I admit that I rather miss Green. Is it possible to get access
to it if one is not affiliated with Stanford anymore?
LM
Meg Worley
>Though I admit that I rather miss Green. Is it possible to get access
>to it if one is not affiliated with Stanford anymore?
Yes, you can buy a patron card for $300 a year. Knowing your
appetites, I imagine that would be a better bargain than buying
all those books, but if you factor in gas from SJ, that might
change things.
j...@radidelmex.net
> Yes, you can buy a patron card for $300 a year. Knowing your
> appetites, I imagine that would be a better bargain than buying
> all those books, but if you factor in gas from SJ, that might
> change things.
$300!!!!
My local (state-funded) university raised their patron fee to $125 per
annum. I complained, they didn't respond, I complained louder to my
Congressman (it is state-funded, after all), and the U. librarian wrote me
a letter and did nothing.
What point does a discriminatory fee serve? If they're worried about
book theft, swipe a credit card. It keeps the taxpayers who support
them from reading books that they have bought.
I wholly support Meg in any campus protest she choses to organinze,
including the public burning of her bra and/or library card!!!!!!
P Settli
<j...@radiDELMEx.net> wrote in message
news:9vvirb$l0a$2...@news1.Radix.Net...
> IMHO, the US is heading for a mad-cow epidemic like Britian just
went
> through, which will temporarily kill off the public taste for
hamburger, which
> will drive many of the little joints out of business (maybe even
topple
> MickeyD's), which will cause a public outcry for better
inspections.
You may be right.
I was going to post something on the order that it was my
understanding that the US cattle were corn fed and didn't ingest
animal bi-products and therefore weren't at risk for BSE but
decided to check in the book before I posted and a good thing too,
because I would have wrong, once again. According to the book,
up until 1997 US cattle were fed not only the rendered remains of
sheep, cattle, horses, pigs and poultry, but also cats and dogs.
The UK mad cow outbreak put a stop to some of this, but it's still
OK to feed them rendered poultry, horses and pigs, as well as
cattle blood, not to mention waste products from poultry plants.
Almost enough to make a man go off his feed.
--PS
P Settli
"David J. Loftus" <Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us> wrote in message
news:5656f475.01122...@posting.google.com...
> "P Settli" <pet...@online.no> wrote
> > and, besides, they never have what I want anyway.
>
> That's often the case for me, except that I invariably find
> something ELSE I'd just as soon read, too.
This is very true, even for small-town (sample of one) Norwegian
libraries and English language texts. There's always a surprise;
a collection of short stories, a novel, a biography...something
good to read.
--PS
David J. Loftus
> Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us (David J. Loftus) wrote in message news:<5656f475.01122...@posting.google.com>...
> > I read only one book at home for every
> > eight or ten I borrow from the library and read. The former will
> > "always be there" but this library book has to be returned in a
> > few weeks!
>
> I somehow never manage to pull myself together enough to return
> library books on time. They always end up more expensive than at the
> used bookstore, so I seldom use the library.
Hmmm. Don't know how widespread this is now, but the two library
systems I borrow from allow you to renew books online. So I can
renew books from home iMac or office PC without even having to know
which books (or videos) I have out or where they are at the moment.
I think one library system sets a limit of two renewals, but as long
as no one else requests the item, you can renew stuff from the other
endlessly for 99 years, if you like.
My annual library fines dropped precipitously after these systems
went into effect a few years ago.
David Loftus
j...@radidelmex.net
> Almost enough to make a man go off his feed.
Yeah! While reading the book I was more nauseated by what
the cattle ate and their unsanitary living conditions than any of
the abatoir grossities. I learnt that the scariest slaughterhouse
job wasn't a meat cutter, but the night workers who have to clean up
after the slaughter wearing thin masks and steaming chlorine-based chemicals.
j...@radidelmex.net
> Hmmm. Don't know how widespread this is now, but the two library
> systems I borrow from allow you to renew books online.
All the libraries I draw from have it, and the stupidier ones force you
to log in first. What, some ne'er-do-well may secretly renew my books
against my wishes? I also want a button that reads "RENEW ALL MY BOOKS
WITHOUT ASKING ME TO TYPE IN EVERY FREAKIN' 10 DIGIT ID NUMBER".
Larisa
> Larisa writes:
> >Though I admit that I rather miss Green. Is it possible to get access
> >to it if one is not affiliated with Stanford anymore?
>
> Yes, you can buy a patron card for $300 a year. Knowing your
> appetites, I imagine that would be a better bargain than buying
> all those books, but if you factor in gas from SJ, that might
> change things.
I find myself in your neck of the woods on a regular basis, anyhow.
This will just give me another excuse.
LM (off to Stanford to spend $300)
E. coli
Gasoline must be going for what?, $1.19, up there now. If worse comes
to worse, you could always stow a shopping cart in the bicycle car of a
CalTrain. Surely they'll let you park it outside Green.
Still, three hundred bucks sounds pricey. Nothing is inexpensive at Stanford.
jimC
Joann Zimmerman
> $300!!!!
>
> My local (state-funded) university raised their patron fee to $125 per
> annum. I complained, they didn't respond, I complained louder to my
> Congressman (it is state-funded, after all), and the U. librarian wrote me
> a letter and did nothing.
Stanford prides itself on its privateness. Always has.
The fee was, I think, $200 back in the 80s; fortunately I didn't have to
cough up, as they had an exemption for staff spice. (There was a large
application to fill up, and it included such nosy questions as what book
subjects you were likely to be checking out. I just said "Everything!")
> What point does a discriminatory fee serve? If they're worried about
> book theft, swipe a credit card. It keeps the taxpayers who support
> them from reading books that they have bought.
Taxpayers don't buy the books at Stanford, unless you wish to assume that
the very strange finances involving overhead charges for research grants
have an effect on library funds.
> I wholly support Meg in any campus protest she choses to organinze,
> including the public burning of her bra and/or library card!!!!!!
Not sure why you think Meg is offended/affected here ... and Larisa seems
quite pleased to paye her fee.
--
"I never understood people who don't have bookshelves."
--George Plimpton
Joann Zimmerman jz...@bellereti.com
Meg Worley
Larisa had asked:
>> > >Though I admit that I rather miss Green. Is it possible to get access
>> > >to it if one is not affiliated with Stanford anymore?
I replied:
>> > Yes, you can buy a patron card for $300 a year.
JimC writes:
>Still, three hundred bucks sounds pricey. Nothing is inexpensive at Stanford.
It's actually fairly cheap for a large private research library --
Harvard's fee is $750, and Yale's is $65/mo.
Francis Muir
The only untoward (froward?) recent change at Stanford is that Library
Loan requests mayt be turned down in caase the requested book is not in
one's specialty. However, it doesn't apply to UC Bewrkeley and UT Austin
which have developed special arrangements with Stanford. Some time ago I
got knocked back onb a Lit request when it was pointed out that
Geophysics was not Lit. This is a disgrace, of course, and may reflect
the influence of Michael the Arch Assole. I have nothing but good to say
about almost all the staff in the various Libararies here, and I have
had rules bent several times. Example: I was able to take out of Green a
copy of Times Lit Supp so I could make a reproduction in Mitchell. I was
interested in having a copy of their review of Joukowski's excellent
2-vol editing of the Peacock Letters.
Meg Worley
Francis writes:
>The only untoward (froward?) recent change at Stanford is that Library
>Loan requests mayt be turned down in caase the requested book is not in
>one's specialty.
You mean, of course, Interlibrary Loan requests, n'est ce pas?
>However, it doesn't apply to UC Bewrkeley and UT Austin
>which have developed special arrangements with Stanford. Some time ago I
>got knocked back onb a Lit request when it was pointed out that
>Geophysics was not Lit. This is a disgrace, of course, and may reflect
>the influence of Michael the Arch Assole.
This is one instance where the library director's hands are clean.
Francis, for them what don't know, is the terror of the Interlibrary
Loan folks, and they began enforcing the longtime policy of using
ILL for research purposes only because of our dear Talking Muir.
Personally, I'm desperate to read John Verney's other Calendar books,
but I wouldn't order them through ILL because that would take them
off the shelves for someone who was searching Verney's novels for
references to the war with the goal of comparing him to, say, Eliot.
Francis Muir
Meg Worley wrote:
>
> Francis writes:
> >The only untoward (froward?) recent change at Stanford is that Library
> >Loan requests mayt be turned down in caase the requested book is not in
> >one's specialty.
>
> You mean, of course, Interlibrary Loan requests, n'est ce pas?
Indeed i do. Exactement.
> >However, it doesn't apply to UC Bewrkeley and UT Austin
> >which have developed special arrangements with Stanford. Some time ago I
> >got knocked back onb a Lit request when it was pointed out that
> >Geophysics was not Lit. This is a disgrace, of course, and may reflect
> >the influence of Michael the Arch Assole.
>
> This is one instance where the library director's hands are clean.
> Francis, for them what don't know, is the terror of the Interlibrary
> Loan folks, and they began enforcing the longtime policy of using
> ILL for research purposes only because of our dear Talking Muir.
Come now ma'am. There is no book I have ever asked for that had not
been gatherin' dust for 50 years or more. Example: Sayers' verse
translation of some Tristan fragments from the FrogLat of Tom the Norm.
In fact it deserves to be much better known.
Susan Young
In article <a02nas$h3f$1...@usenet.Stanford.EDU>, m...@steam.stanford.edu (Meg
Worley) wrote:
> Personally, I'm desperate to read John Verney's other Calendar books,
> but I wouldn't order them through ILL because that would take them
> off the shelves for someone who was searching Verney's novels for
> references to the war with the goal of comparing him to, say, Eliot.
I'll lend you mine through the mail as an informal ILL. Answering a question
you asked me some weeks ago, I found them through www.bookfinder.com, but I
had to search regularly over a period of several _years_. They were all
fairly reasonably priced.
Susan
Paul Ilechko
I'm reading Seidensticker, which has minimal footnotes, just enough to explain all the poetic references. I
prefer it that way. It's not difficult reading, but at least so far it seems the book should have been called
"The Amorous Adventures of Genji".
Meg Worley
Paul writes:
>I'm reading Seidensticker, which has minimal footnotes, just enough to explain all the poetic references. I
>prefer it that way. It's not difficult reading, but at least so far it seems the book should have been called
>"The Amorous Adventures of Genji".
Yo, Paul, what's with the line lengths?
I like the Seidensticker best, although I haven't examined the
new Tyler translation thoroughly. Special K is reading it at
the moment, and he is finding that occasional appeals to the
index of Ivan Morris's *World of the Shining Prince* is just
the thing to clarify problems.
I'm encouraging him to read Sei Shonagon's *Pillow Book* next,
but he may be ready to escape medieval Japan.
spampot
>
> Paul Ilechko <pile...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm planning to read The Tale of Genji - it looks like the kind of book that
> > needs some dedicated reading time, and it's too big to carry around.
>
> but I don't know if anyone has ever translated that into English.
>
> ObBook: The Tail of Benji
According to today's Washington Post, at least three people have:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9913-2001Dec20.html
spampot
>
> "John S. Watson" wrote:
> >
> > m...@steam.stanford.edu (Meg Worley) wrote in message news:<9vr14t$70p$1...@usenet.Stanford.EDU>...
> > >
> > > I find the DK travel guides an attractive nuisance. They draw
> > > one in with nice design and charming diagrams, but they are
> > > compeletely useless for almost any travel-related purpose. The
> > > maps are frequently wrong (as is the history); the information
> > > isn't thorough; the writers are trained ad-monkeys; the
> > > recommendations are long out of date; and the pages are glossy,
> > > so that the book is heavy. The whole series is geared toward
> > > diagramaphiles and cartoholics who've taken leave of their
> > > critical faculties.
> >
> > True, totally useless when actually traveling.
> >
> > If I see them at used booksales, I'll buy them
> > if I can get them for 25 cents or less ...
>
> I fancy the much-despised Little Red Books; not
> Chairman Mao's but the ones that Karl Baedeker
> of Leipsic put together in the final, flourishing
> days of the Austro-Hungarian empire.
>
> ObHeineMoment: Mein Kaiser, mein Kaiser gefangen!
I enjoyed seeing young Sebastian carrying his Baedeker's Illyria in the
1996 film of Twelfth Night.
Meg Worley
JimW wrote:
>> Tanizaki translated it into (modern) Japanese, which must be excellent,
>> but I don't know if anyone has ever translated that into English.
>According to today's Washington Post, at least three people have:
I think Jim meant Tanizaki's modern Japanese translation, which
to my knowledge has not been Englished.
j...@radidelmex.net
> I want the younger, funnier Meg Worley back.
> It's only coincidental, I assure you, that she is also the
> thinner, more flexible, less insomniac Meg Worley.
Don't think of it as gaining weight, think of it as becoming more
centered! Free to be, you and me ... (although lately I've been taking up
more of our planet).
Stephen Hayes
Don Tuite wrote in a message to All:
DT> From: Don Tuite <don_...@hotlink.com>
DT> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:18:02 GMT, "E. coli" <e_c...@pacbell.net>
DT> wrote:
>
>
>No, no. He has a point. _Mason & Dixon_ (set in the 18th century
>actually)
>is so difficult that there haven't been any successful attempts, as far
>as I know, at bringing out a supplementary reader's guide. GR should
>be clear
>sailing. I couldn't put Slothrop down from beginning to end.
DT> Actually, it does kinda drag between the English candy episode and
DT> the pig song. I prefer _V_.
The former reminded me very much of Harry Potter and Bertie Bott's
Every-Flavour Beans. I wonder if Rowling had been reading Pynchon.
Keep well
Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail: haye...@yahoo.com
FamilyNet <> Internet Gated Mail
http://www.fmlynet.org
Stephen Hayes
Paul Ilechko wrote in a message to All:
> Actually, it does kinda drag between the English candy episode and the
> pig song. I prefer _V_.
>
PI> Definitely V is better, and so is Crying of Lot 49, which is
PI> practically perfect in
PI> it's own way. GR would be great if it didn't fall apart at the end.
Hmmm, I wonder if I should persevere with it, then?
David J. Loftus
Err, yes, that is a burden, but a small price to pay in exchange for
the money saved in fines, as far as I'm concerned. How much have other
RABsters paid in library fines over the years?
I'd estimate I contributed a ballpark average of 50 to 70 dollars a year
to public libraries before the advent of online renewal -- several
hundred dollars to my college library back in the 80s because of their
oddball policies.
Fortunately, one of the public libraries I do business with today
fortuitously issued me an id number that was a piece o' cake to
memorize: only three numerals in an 8-digit sequence, two of which
alternate with each other three times in a row.
Maybe the fear is that the ne'er-do-well will place endless numbers of
holds in other people's names...?
David Loftus
j...@radidelmex.net
> Maybe the fear is that the ne'er-do-well will place endless numbers of
> holds in other people's names...?
Speaking of ne'er-do-wells, I recently saw a New Yorker cartoon where a gang
of punks had taken over all the comfy chairs in a bookstore. The back of
their jackets read "Hell's Bibliophiles".
Marko Amnell
HOW BRAINS THINK: THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE by William Calvin
is a good exposition of the "neural Darwinism" thesis by
the man who coined the term "Darwin machines". Occasional RAB
contributor Marvin "The Society of Mind" Minsky gets a mention
in a footnote for his 1994 Scientific American article "Will
robots inherit the earth?". This seems doubtful right now if
your ask me, although I recall seeing a newspaper article
recently which said the Japanese have launched the first
humanoid-shaped domestic robot... (called ASIMO I think).
j...@radidelmex.net
by Patricia K. Davis. It's a fun, stocking-sized book, and tells
a fictionalized account of the writing of Chuckie D's "A Christmas Carol"
(first edition now $22K) and how it brought Christmas back to England.
The book is peopled with eminent Victorians, thieving publishers, a ghost,
and ragamuffins with a heart of gold. It'll be enjoyed by anyone who likes
Scrooge's tale. Some fun facts:
1. Dickens did magic tricks.
2. Carlyle comes off his friend/elder brother. Were they really that
close? Carlyle, it seems, was fated to have his manuscripts
accidentally destoyed, first by Mill, then by Dickens. Is Carlyle
remembered as a good historian?
3. Newspapers used to publish headline book reviews (ah, those were the
days!). Sample: "Chuzzlewit a Fizzlewit!"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312976984/
qid=1009482185/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/102-9821106-8040126
Marvin Minsky
> Admittedly a bit late for Yuletide reading, I know, but...
> HOW BRAINS THINK: THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE by William Calvin
> is a good exposition of the "neural Darwinism" thesis by
> the man who coined the term "Darwin machines". Occasional RAB
> contributor Marvin "The Society of Mind" Minsky gets a mention
> in a footnote for his 1994 Scientific American article "Will
> robots inherit the earth?".
I've put that on my home page at
http://www.media.mit.edu/people/minsky/. Actually it's more about the
prospects for human immortality.
>This seems doubtful right now if
> your ask me, although I recall seeing a newspaper article
> recently which said the Japanese have launched the first
> humanoid-shaped domestic robot... (called ASIMO I think).
Perhaps it is the Honda robot, which does look very human indeed.
But I also doubt much will come of it, because AI still has not yet
acheived enough commonsense thinking to avoid the 'Sorceror's
Apprentice" kind of bug.
j...@radidelmex.net
the author included a paragraph with (more boring) straight story. I still
wonder what happened with his publishers. Did he go to a new one? Stick with
the thieving ones?
Bruce McGuffin
> Taxpayers don't buy the books at Stanford, unless you wish to assume that
> the very strange finances involving overhead charges for research grants
> have an effect on library funds.
There is little doubt that part of my excessive overhead goes to
support the MIT library, as it is one of the few justifications the
administration can produce for sending overhead money from an
essentially self-contained laboratory to the MIT campus.
Personally, I average a bit less than one main library access per
year, and given the length of time it takes, and the low quality of
the xerox copy they innevitably produce, I would be just as well
served by interlibrary loan.
Bruce McGuffin
Rebecca Allen
> "David J. Loftus" <Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us> wrote in message
> news:5656f475.01122...@posting.google.com...
> > "P Settli" <pet...@online.no> wrote in message
> news:<9vsg5s$hg8ui$1...@ID-28773.news.dfncis.de>...
> >
> > > On Jim C's recommendation, I was also planning on reading
> > > Naipaul's _Among the Believers_ but was told by my favorite
> > > bookstore that it's out of print. I can order it through the
Bizarre. I just saw it on the table at University Books in Seattle.
That's not a used bookstore, either. Hmmm. Back stock?
> I know. My excuse is that I've got such a backlog of unread books
> laying around that I haven't needed the library and, besides, they
> never have what I want anyway. Everything I want has to be ordered
> through the Inter-Library Loan Program (_Among the Believers_
> being just one example). Of course, I *bought* all these unread
> books. Most could have been borrowed from the library and been
> returned unread.
I know the problem. I'm currently digging my way out from under
an inexplicable multi-year backlog.
> Got to change my ways.
Good luck.
> A book I'll never get around to reading: _Fast Food Nation_
It was okay. When I read that kind of thing, I prefer Stauber and
Rampton. The most relevant would probably be _Mad Cow U.S.A._.
Rebecca Allen standard disclaimers apply r...@seanet.com
The Poster Formerly Known as Rebecca LeAnn Smit Crowley
j...@radidelmex.net
>> A book I'll never get around to reading: _Fast Food Nation_
> It was okay. When I read that kind of thing, I prefer Stauber and
> Rampton. The most relevant would probably be _Mad Cow U.S.A._.
I caught the author on one of those morning talk shows. He's now a
crusader against obesity and marketing to kids. From FFN he sounded
more like a journalist grabbing straw to make bricks wherever he could
find them. Whatever sells the book!
P Settli
"Rebecca Allen" wrote:
> > > "P Settli" <pet...@online.no> wrote:
> > > > On Jim C's recommendation, I was also planning on reading
> > > > Naipaul's _Among the Believers_ but was told by my favorite
> > > > bookstore that it's out of print. I can order it through the
>
> Bizarre. I just saw it on the table at University Books in Seattle.
> That's not a used bookstore, either. Hmmm. Back stock?
I just checked Amazon.co.uk and they show two different publishers, Picador
(paperback) and Peter Smith (hardback). One of the Picador paperbacks is
"not yet published", but looks like it will be available January 25th, the
other paperback is a special order and the Peter Smith hardback is
"dispatched in 1-2 weeks."
I ordered (along with some other novels) two Jim Crace novels through
Norway's biggest Net shop (Bokkilden.no) in mid-November. _Quarantine_
arrived after a week, as promised. The other Crace novel _The Gift Stones_ ,
along with Henry
Porter's _Remembrance Day_ hadn't arrived after the 2-4
weeks promised, so I wrote customer service to ask what had happened to the
order.
After first apologizing for not informing me, the customer service person
told me the books were sold out at the publisher. Thinking that rather
strange, I checked Amazon.co.uk and saw that they were available and in the
case of _The Gift of Stones_ could be shipped in 24 hours.
I wrote back to the customer rep and told her that I could get it from
Amazon. She e-mailed me back that Amazon and Bokkilden must have different
distributors. Huh?
The happy ending is that my daughter was in London over the holidays
and got me a signed paperback copy.
Just checked www.bokkilden.no and see that they're still offering it, two
different editions, one available in 1-2 weeks, the other in 2-4. Also see
that the people who ordered _the Gift of Stones_ also ordered
Crace's_Quarantine_, Henry Porter's _Remembrance Day_ and George Pelecanos'
_Right as Rain_. Hey, that's *me*.
Totally off topic but so weird I feel compelled to share it: a thrice
convicted
pedophile serving a seven year sentence was prescribed Viagra by the prison
physician. The pedophile is now on trial for sexually assaulting his son
during a prison visit. His wife is also on trial, as she was present when
the assault took place.
From the link below:
Prosecutor Erik Førde has raged over information that the man was prescribed
Viagra. "Are erection problems really a problem for someone with your
background?" he challenged the convicted pedophile in court.
The defendant responded that he had sought a prescription for Viagra in
order to have sex with his wife. He said he had not used it prior to having
sex with his son.
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article.jhtml?articleID=254757
The article doesn't mention that the man is also charged with sexually
assaulting his son while on "pass" from the prison. Yes, hard as it is to
believe, thrice convicted sexual offenders are allowed passes and home
visits just like ordinary criminals.
ObBook: ?
--PS
j...@radidelmex.net
free hamburgers) but the counterperson did know who I was talking about.
Bruce McGuffin
> The article doesn't mention that the man is also charged with sexually
> assaulting his son while on "pass" from the prison. Yes, hard as it is to
> believe, thrice convicted sexual offenders are allowed passes and home
> visits just like ordinary criminals.
Hey, you think that's strange? Here in America, a man with a history
of "homosexual pedophilia" going back almost 30 years was assigned
(yet again) to serve as a parish priest. (Does that make Cardinal Law
a pimp?).
Bruce McGuffin
obnewsrag: The Boston Globe
j...@radidelmex.net
> Hey, you think that's strange? Here in America, a man with a history
> of "homosexual pedophilia" going back almost 30 years was assigned
> (yet again) to serve as a parish priest. (Does that make Cardinal Law
> a pimp?).
Speaking of pedophilia ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14793-2002Jan8.html
P Settli
"Bruce McGuffin" <mcgu...@ll.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:vkhepvf...@ll.mit.edu...
Don't know but it's a safe bet that he's very hard up for priests.
No mention of Viagra, I hope.
--PS
Bruce McGuffin
> Hey, you think that's strange? Here in America, a man with a history
> of "homosexual pedophilia" going back almost 30 years was assigned
> (yet again) to serve as a parish priest. (Does that make Cardinal Law
> a pimp?).
I'm sorry. That was uncalled for. Cardinal Law is, at worst, a
panderer.
The Cardinal reportedly made a moving apology yesterday to Father
Geoghan's victims, saying that *in retrospect* it was a bad idea to
assign a priest with a long history of buggering small boys to a
parish with children in it.
Bruce McGuffin
obbook: Graham Greene, The Power and the Glory
Marko Amnell
having major problems with my newsreader.
min...@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky) wrote:
> marko_...@hotmail.com (Marko Amnell) wrote:
> > HOW BRAINS THINK: THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE
> > by William Calvin is a good exposition of the
> > "neural Darwinism" thesis by the man who coined
> > the term "Darwin machines". Occasional RAB contributor
> > Marvin "The Society of Mind" Minsky gets a mention in
> > a footnote for his 1994 Scientific American article
> > "Will robots inherit the earth?".
>
> I've put that on my home page at
> http://www.media.mit.edu/people/minsky/.
> Actually it's more about the prospects for human immortality.
Thanks. _Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination_ by
Gerald Edelman and Giulio Tonori is another good book on
Neural Darwinism. It's more comprehensive than William Calvin's
_How Brains Think_ (and even contains a few mathematical
equations). I believe Edelman actually was the first to propose
the Neural Darwinism hypothesis in the late 1970s. What is it?
Well, just listing a few principles doesn't explain much, but
this is how Edelman and Tononi introduce Neural Darwinism
(pp. 79-85):
"In considering the origin of species, Charles Darwin made a
great contribution that centered on population thinking: the
idea that variation or diversity among individuals in a population
provides a basis for competition during natural selection. Natural
selection is reflected in the differential reproduction of fitter
individuals in a species. In principle, selective events require
the continual generation of diversity in repertoires of individual
variants, the polling by environmental signals of these diverse
repertoires, and the differential amplification or reproduction
of those repertoire elements or individuals that match such
signals better than their competition. Could it be that the
brain follows such principles? We believe it does, and in this
chapter we briefly review some aspects of neuronal group selection,
or Neural Darwinism. This theory embraces these selective principles
and applies them to the functioning brain. Its main tenets are
(1) the formation during brain development of a primary repertoire
of highly variant neuronal groups that contribute to neuroanatomy
(developmental selection),
(2) the formation during experience of a secondary repertoire of
facilitated neural circuits as a result of changes in the strength
of connections or synapses (experiental selection), and
(3) a process of reentrant signaling along reciprocal connections
between and among distributed neuronal groups to assure the
spatiotemporal correlation of selected neural events.
Together, the three tenets of this global brain theory provide a
powerful means for understanding the key neural interactions that
contribute to consciousness. ...
This theory of neuronal group selection (TNGS), or Neural Darwinism,
has three main tenets ...
1. Developmental selection. During the early development of
individuals in a species, formation of the initial anatomy of
the brain is certainly constrained by genes and inheritance.
But from early embryonic stages onward, the connectivity at the
level of synapses is established, to a large extent, by somatic
selection during each individual's ongoing development. For
example, during development, neurons extend myriads of branching
processes in many directions. This branching generates extensive
variability in the connection patterns of that individual and
creates an immense and diverse repertoires of neural circuits.
Then, neurons strengthen and weake their connections according
to their individual patterns of electrical activity: Neurons
that fire together, wire together. As a result, neurons in a
group are more closely connected to each other than to neurons
in other groups.
2. Experiental selection. Overlapping this early period and
extending throughout life, a process of synaptic selection
occurs within the repertoire of neuronal groups as a result
of behavioral experience. It is known, for example, that
maps of the brain corresponding to tactile inputs from the
fingers can change their boundaries, depending on how much
different fingers are used. These changes occur because
certain synapses within and between groups of locally
coupled neurons are strengthened and others are weakened
without changes in the anatomy. This selectional process
is constrained by brain signals that arise as a result of the
activity of diffusely projecting value systems, a constraint
that is continually modified by successful output.
3. Reentry. The correlation of selective events across the
various maps of the brain occurs as a result of the dynamic
process of reentry. Reentry allows an animal with a variable
and uniquely individual nervous system to partition an
unlabeled world into objects and events in the absence of a
homunculus or computer program. As we have already discussed,
reentry leads to the synchronization of the activity of
temporally coherent output. Reentry is thus the central
mechanism by which the spatiotemporal coordination of
diverse sensory and motor events takes place.
The first two tenets, developmental and experiental selection,
provide the bases for the great variability and differentiation
of distributed neural states that accompany consciousness. The
third tenet, reentry, allows for the integration of those states. ...
It is important to emphasize that reentry is not feedback. Feedback
occurs along a *single* fixed loop made of reciprocal connections
using previous *instructionally* derived information for control
and correction, such as an error signal. In contrast, reentry
occurs in selectional systems across *multiple* parallel paths
where information is not prespecified. Life feedback, however,
reentry can be local (within a map) or global (among maps and
whole regions).
Reentry carries out several major functions. For example, it can
account for our ability to discern a shape in a display of moving
dots, based on interactions between brain areas for visual movement
and shape. Thus, reentry can lead to the construction of new
response properties. It can also mediate the synthesis of brain
functions by connecting one submodality, such as color, to another,
such as motion. It can also resolve conflicts among competing
neural signals. Reentry also ensures that changes in the efficacy
of synapses in one area are affected by the activation patterns
of distant areas, thereby making local synaptic changes context-
dependent. Finally, by assuring the spatiotemporal correlation
of neuronal firing, reentry is the main mechanism of neural integration.
Since the formulation of the TNGS, considerable evidence to support
the theory has accumulated."
Unfortunately, Edelman and Tononi are not very explicit about
the nature of this evidence. Does anyone know what is the best
current evidence in support of the hypothesis of Neural Darwinism?
Or is there some crucial evidence against the theory? Can anyone
recommend other good books on Neural Darwinism, for or against?
Are there good articles or papers on the subject that are
available on the world wide web? Thanks in advance.
David J. Loftus
I noticed the rich and tiresome use of the passive voice in his
statement.
... but the lawyers probably made him do that.
David Loftus
Marko Amnell
> marko_...@hotmail.com (Marko Amnell) wrote:
> > HOW BRAINS THINK: THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE
> > by William Calvin is a good exposition of the
> > "neural Darwinism" thesis by the man who coined
> > the term "Darwin machines". Occasional RAB contributor
> > Marvin "The Society of Mind" Minsky gets a mention in
> > a footnote for his 1994 Scientific American article
> > "Will robots inherit the earth?".
>
> I've put that on my home page at
> http://www.media.mit.edu/people/minsky/.
> Actually it's more about the prospects for human immortality.
Thanks. _Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination_ by
Lance Sherman
sorry I cant provide answers to your concluding questions - hopefully
another participant can.
I, on the other hand, have only another question.
what is "re-entrance" in the sense used by Edelman?
"Marko Amnell" <marko_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f6852717.02011...@posting.google.com...
Arthur T. Murray
> Thanks for the amusingly titled, informative message.
>
> sorry I cant provide answers to your concluding questions -
> hopefully another participant can.
>
> I, on the other hand, have only another question.
>
> what is "re-entrance" in the sense used by Edelman?
http://mind.sourceforge.net/index.html "The AI Mind"
for Microsoft Internet Explorer Web browsers shows you
"reentry" in action when you run the AI in Troubleshoot mode.
The Web page of the AI Mind becomes a transcript of your
dialog with the artificial intelligence. The thoughts of
the AI go through a "Reentry" module into engram storage.
(Using MSIE View/ Source/ will reveal the Reentry source code.)
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/rejuve.html is the "Rejuvenation"
module which gets rid of the oldest memory engrams in order to
free up space for incoming fresh memory engrams. Thanks to
the "Reentry" module, not all of the oldest memories are lost
during rejuvenation, because any memory brought forward by
Reentry is redeposited and saved from oblivion.
>
>"Marko Amnell" <marko_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f6852717.02011...@posting.google.com...
>> min...@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky) wrote:
>>
>> > marko_...@hotmail.com (Marko Amnell) wrote:
>>
>> > > HOW BRAINS THINK: THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE
>> > > by William Calvin is a good exposition of the
>> > > "neural Darwinism" thesis by the man who coined
>> > > the term "Darwin machines". Occasional RAB contributor
>> > > Marvin "The Society of Mind" Minsky gets a mention in
>> > > a footnote for his 1994 Scientific American article
>> > > "Will robots inherit the earth?".
>> >
>> > I've put that on my home page at
>> > http://www.media.mit.edu/people/minsky/.
>> > Actually it's more about the prospects for human immortality.
>>
>> Thanks. _Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination_ by
>> Gerald Edelman and Giulio Tonori is another good book on
>> Neural Darwinism. It's more comprehensive than William Calvin's
>> _How Brains Think_ (and even contains a few mathematical
>> equations). I believe Edelman actually was the first to propose
>> the Neural Darwinism hypothesis in the late 1970s. What is it?
>> Well, just listing a few principles doesn't explain much, but
>> this is how Edelman and Tononi introduce Neural Darwinism
>> (pp. 79-85): [snip]
Arthur T. Murray
--
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/dsm-ai.html "AI Mental Disorders"
mat
same stuff, even goes as far as proposing a real theory :) As to
evidence I'm not sure, though increasingly common amongst article
titles is the phrase 'neural correlate of'..consciousness, awareness,
visual information etc.. whether all these are directly associated
with Edelman's theory I don't know, but the 'group of neurones' type
of idea is common to both. Though Neural Darwinism or 'brain as
darwin machine' is certainly a popular view at the moment, I would
recommend reading Jerry Fodor's "The mind doesn't work that way" (MIT
press) it does raise some interesting counter arguments to the
darwinian approach to mind (not the kind of theories that Edelmn has
developed but more the evolutionary psychology of Pinker and Plotkin
et al. But I think the arguments are applicable to the more 'neural'
theories and give good reasons why we should be a bit more weary of
this approach)
ps do a medline search on edelman! :)
Count Artby
tabellae collectae , in foro <bionet.neuroscience>(et alii) atque :
Would anybody be so kind to mail or post here some authors
that wrote about "Science" on itself (like Karl Popper) :
I'm aiming 'what about' :
- Neurobiology - Chemistry
- the infinte - infinitecimal problem
- Modern Science after the Nuclear Discoveries
Thanks a lot,
>min...@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky) wrote:
The real one ?
The one that said :" As often teachers only understand what they teach after
explaining it for the first time" ?
yan king yin
some research that might be related to it.
For example, there is the recent finding that in the hippocampus,
new cells are generated at the rate of 5000 neurons per day. Many
of them do not survive. One wonders what these new neurons are
doing?Could they be eliminated by selection?
There is also speculation of new neurons in the primate cortex, I
guess this issue is under investigation.
As for Darwinian selection at the synaptic level, I have read that a
strictly eliminative view (where no new synapses are generated) is
unlikely to be correct. But there could be both generative and
eliminative processes. During the development of the brain, synapse
density peaks at about postnatal age 3 or so (dont have the book
here) and it reaches a form of plateau until a gradual decline towards
old age. This pattern is not entirely congruent with an eliminative
view.
I think more evidence is needed to decide the validity of his theory.
I would be very interested to know of such progress.
Francis Muir
yan king yin wrote:
> Thanks for posting about Edelman's theory.
> I have been following some research that
> might be related to it.
> I think more evidence is needed to decide
> the validity of his theory. I would be very
> interested to know of such progress.
And at age 75 so would I.
Tim Lister
this is particularly relevant if you're planning to live forever, and
who isn't? ;-)
[Tim Lister, EYE CANDY web spinning, NSW 2042, Australia]
[Phone: 61 2 9557 4050]
[mailto: eye-...@webspinning.org]
[WWW: http://www.maxtal.com.au/~tal/eyecandy ]
"He walks the streets like an ordinary man"