The Lost Road
Rainbow920
I recently purchased HoMe Vol.5, and am reading the chapter which contains ''
The Lost Road'', and something puzzled me. Where were Audoin and Alboin of
present-day England, supposed to fit in with Elendil and Herendil's part of the
tale?? Anybody have an educated guess on this one???
David Salo
In article <199803211559...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
rainb...@aol.com (Rainbow920) wrote:
Alboin and Audoin Errol are supposed to have been permitted a glimpse
into the past lives of Elendil and Herendil; they are, in some strange
sense, modern-day representatives of these two peoples, repetitions in form
(though not substance) of E. & H.; these same repetitions of pattern being
supposed to have occurred at other times in history as well.
Another writer would probably have used 'reincarnation' as a mechanism
for this, but Tolkien's Catholic Christianity would not allow this (for
humans) and so Tolkien found a slightly more complicated method of
obtaining the same result. A rather more detailed consideration of the
theoretical background of such 're-living' the past is found in _The Notion
Club Papers_.
Tolkien eventually gave up on Herendil (Elendil's eldest son becomes
Isildur, but that is not exactly the same character); the name
Edwin/Eadwine/Audoin then becomes attached to Elendil's father Amandil,
interpreted as "Bliss-Friend".
David Salo
Rainbow920
Thanks!!! I really appreciate the info, but Tolkien was planning on using other
elements in history for the Lost Road, (AElfwine,King Shaeve) I am having a
difficult time making those fit into Alboin wanting to ''go back'' I
assume that when you say > Tolkien eventually gave up on Herendil (Elendil's
eldest son becomes
>Isildur, but that is not exactly the same character)
that you mean he just dropped the character???? I apologize for the possible
misinterpretation of what you say. Rainbow
Rainbow-trust your opinions, ant trash others only when needed
David Salo
In article <199803230044...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
rainb...@aol.com (Rainbow920) wrote:
> Thanks!!! I really appreciate the info, but Tolkien was planning on using
other
> elements in history for the Lost Road, (AElfwine,King Shaeve) I am having a
> difficult time making those fit into Alboin wanting to ''go back''
Well, judging by Tolkien's statements about the Lost Road (in letters,
for instance) and by his procedure in The Notion Club Papers, it looks as
though there were to be a series of episodes, in which Alboin and Audoin
would 'see' various historical events through the eyes of an English
AElfwine and Eadwine, and Alboin and Audoin of Italy, and eventually come
to find the 'historical' basis for the Sheave legend -- to find history
merging into myth, and especially the myth of the fall of Numenor. I don't
think he ever decided how many steps he wanted to take in between.
Among the projections were
1) 'A Norse story of ship-burial (Vinland)' - presumably the idea of a
royal personage being set adrift in a boat heading westward being connected
with the idea of the Straight Road.
2) 'an English story - of the man who got onto the Straight Road' -- this
story was fleshed out (somewhat) in The Notion Club Papers, the idea being
apparently that an English AElfwine, of the reign of the West Saxon king
Edward the Elder (early 10th century), flying from a viking raid sailed
into the west, and either actually or in a vision came to Eressea -- this
being connected with the story found in The Book of Lost Tales of how an
AElfwine was told stories of the history of the elves in Eressea.
3) 'a Tuatha-de-Danaan story, or Tir-nan-Og' -- the Tuatha de Danaan were
an important people in Irish history/mythology, being not unlike Tolkien's
elves in many respects. Tir na nOg was a mythical land in the west, which
Tolkien would probably have represented as being a memory of Numenor and/or
Eressea. Also somehow to be connected with this story was the legend of
Finntan 'the oldest man in the world', a survivor of the Deluge (which
could be equated with the floods associated with the destruction of
Numenor).
4) a story about 'painted caves' -- impossible to see any connection here
except a general movement toward early prehistory
5) 'the Ice Age -- great figures in ice' or 'Prehistoric North - old kings
found buried in the ice'. There may be a literary precursor for this
chapter, but I don't know what it is. Presumably the 'old kings' or 'great
figures' were to be associated somehow with Numenor.
6) 'Before the Ice Age - the Galdor story' in which we would see the coming
of the Numenoreans to Middle-earth/Europe (and so presumably preceding the
fall of Numenor). Possibly the story of Tal-Elmar (in The Peoples of
Middle-earth) is a late development of this?
7) 'post-Beleriand and the Elendil and Gil-galad story of the assault on
Thu' -- a precursor of the War of the Last Alliance.
8) 'Beleriand' - it's not clear what part of the history of Beleriand would
have been considered.
Finally he would have come to the Numenor-story. Presumably, in each of
these stories, there would be characters with different names, but somehow
related (possibly always father and son) through whom Alboin and Audoin
would perceive events.
> I assume that when you say "Tolkien eventually gave up on Herendil (Elendil's
> eldest son becomes Isildur, but that is not exactly the same character)"
> that you mean he just dropped the character????
I apologize for my lack of clarity. Yes, it does seem that Herendil has
no exact counterpart in the later story of the fall of Numenor. In the
later story Elendil has two sons, Isildur and Anarion; they are both older
than Herendil at the time of the fall of Numenor (110 and 100 respectively;
Herendil was 48) and more responsible and mature; Isildur has a heroic role
in the resistance to Sauron and Ar-Pharazon, while Herendil is portrayed as
inexperienced, easily misled and duped by Sauron's propaganda, and only
saved (perhaps?) from going over to the King's Men by his affection for his
father. No character like this occurs in the later narratives of the Fall
of Numenor.
David Salo