Best choice for Movie Aragorn.
pawn
the choice of Viggo Mortensen for the role of Aragorn. He's too quiet,
too shy, too small, too timid. It may have been my imagination, but I'd
also suggest his political views were apparent in his acting as well.
E.g., his "...war is upon you if you would choose it or no..." line was
not convincing. Worse, his Braveheart speech at the end of RotK was
embarrassing.
Problem is, I've never been able to come up with a better name. It's a
tall order: the Sea King reborn, a natural King of Men. Perhaps it's a
concept better left to print and imagination.
However, a friend (non-Tolkien) fan) offered an idea that intrigued me
the other day:
Liam Neeson
I think he could have pulled it off. Perhaps some of the classic film
actors could have done it: I would offer Gregory Peck.
Who else do you think would have been a good Aragorn? In my opinion, it
could have changed the movies entirely (for the better).
(note: This is only my opinion. Half-wits that feel it necessary to
tell me my opinion is wrong need not reply.)
Jose L. Solano
>the other day:
>
>Liam Neeson
>
Hmm... you know, I think you may have something. Sadly, most people will only
know him as Qui-Gon from Star Wars, which isn't a very accurate display of his
skill as an actor... but I think he would've made a good Aragorn... though his
scenes with Arwen might've seemed a little odd.
Jose L. Solano
-------------------------------
A devious, degenerate defender of the devil
-------------------------------
"It's too damn safe."
Warchild
wrote:
> In my extremely humble opinion, the biggest problem with the movies was
> the choice of Viggo Mortensen for the role of Aragorn. He's too quiet,
Reflective
> too shy,
Reserved
too small,
In comparison to What?
too timid.
Self-controlled
It may have been my imagination, but I'd
> also suggest his political views were apparent in his acting as well.
> E.g., his "...war is upon you if you would choose it or no..." line was
> not convincing.
No, the text of the screenplay was apparent in his acting. Actually
that one line grated on me, mainly because Viggo seemed to be whining in
his nasal accent
Worse, his Braveheart speech at the end of RotK was
> embarrassing.
Only to those who disliked him in the role, speaking the lines his was
given to speak. That would be just you, pretty much.
>
> Problem is, I've never been able to come up with a better name. It's a
> tall order: the Sea King reborn, a natural King of Men. Perhaps it's a
> concept better left to print and imagination.
Ah - there's the rub. The crux of your argument. No movie could be
good enough.
>
> However, a friend (non-Tolkien) fan) offered an idea that intrigued me
> the other day:
>
> Liam Neeson
Would have seemed a good choice, until 'Phantom Menace', in which Liam
played the hero as a walking talking, winding-me-up and wait for me to
get killed doll.
>
> I think he could have pulled it off.
Had his chance, blew it. See comment on 'Phantom Menace'.
Perhaps some of the classic film
> actors could have done it: I would offer Gregory Peck.
Um, dead, right? Rather begs the question. Why don't you choose an
actor who could actually be cast. Liam was a good start, never mind his
already having played the 'heroically stalwart stiff' in the 'The
Phantom Menace'.
>
> Who else do you think would have been a good Aragorn? In my opinion, it
> could have changed the movies entirely (for the better).
Unlikely, in my opinion
>
> (note: This is only my opinion. Half-wits that feel it necessary to
> tell me my opinion is wrong need not reply.)
>
Your opinion is not wrong, just horribly horribly ignorant ;-)
And what if Liam Neeson had played the role in the same fashion as
Viggo? Oh, and by the way there was nothing wrong in the way Viggo
played the role.
Jose L. Solano
>
>Would have seemed a good choice, until 'Phantom Menace', in which Liam
>played the hero as a walking talking, winding-me-up and wait for me to
>get killed doll.
You realize Aragorn and Qui-Gon Jinn are completely different characters,
right?
Morgil
"pawn" <pa...@hanneng.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:405B9D4F...@hanneng.com...
> However, a friend (non-Tolkien) fan) offered an idea that intrigued me
> the other day:
>
> Liam Neeson
Good choice. His performance in the Gangs of New York
would be enough to prove he got what it takes. Even though
he was on only in the opening scene, his presence dominated
the entire movie. Perfect Aragorn. Would have helped the
movies a long way.
Morgil
Latet
> I hadn't known what they were, I wouldn't have been able to detect them
> from his acting.
I didn't know them and I didn't detect them. I still don't know them.
What are they like and what they have to do with his acting?
> Viggo's biggest problems were his lightweight voice
> and his inability to sustain an English accent. He turned completely
> Irish-sounding with his "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth"!
You mean his R's in "Lord" and "forth" or something else?
> > Liam Neeson
> I think he would have been an excellent Aragorn.
More Irish-sounding? ;-)
> He has tremendous
> physical presence and there's a sort of sadness about him that would
> have been appropriate.
I do agree. He would have been good. However, I don't think he would
look good with a beard.
On the other hand - one of the good things about LOTR movies
was that the actors were not very well know hollywood movie stars.
Most of them I had never seen before - and that felt good.
IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as Elrond.
Not that he played bad, he was good enough,
but all the time I couldn't help to expect him to say:
"Mr. Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
Latet
Hope
>From: pawn pa...@hanneng.com
>Date: 20/03/2004 01:24 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <405B9D4F...@hanneng.com>
>Who else do you think would have been a good Aragorn?
For some reason, I'm thinking Jeff Goldblum.
Hope
>From: "Latet" la...@xxx.pl
>Date: 20/03/2004 11:58 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <1278-10...@host102-ursus.spray.net.pl>
>IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as Elrond.
>Not that he played bad, he was good enough,
>but all the time I couldn't help to expect him to say:
>"Mr. Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
Only a problem if you watched the Matrix. I haven't and think Elrond is a
great character and Hugo Weaving does a great job of bringing him alive.
pawn
>>>Liam Neeson
>>
>>Would have seemed a good choice, until 'Phantom Menace', in which Liam
>>played the hero as a walking talking, winding-me-up and wait for me to
>>get killed doll.
>
>
> You realize Aragorn and Qui-Gon Jinn are completely different characters,
> right?
>
Please don't respond to him. You will only invoke his little monkey, Rick.
pawn
>>although I didn't feel that his own political views were the cause. If
>>I hadn't known what they were, I wouldn't have been able to detect them
>>from his acting.
>
>
> I didn't know them and I didn't detect them. I still don't know them.
> What are they like and what they have to do with his acting?
>
He is anti-war. I have no problem with that, just that I personally
couldn't help thinking about it during the scenes where he is trying to
incite others to war. Ironic, and can't help but think it affected his
take on the role, which would go a long way to explain how half-hearted
and weak his voice sounds in these scenes.
He certainly had a commanding presence in G.I. Jane.
>
>>He has tremendous
>>physical presence and there's a sort of sadness about him that would
>>have been appropriate.
>
>
> I do agree. He would have been good. However, I don't think he would
> look good with a beard.
>
Who says he needs one? ;^)
> On the other hand - one of the good things about LOTR movies
> was that the actors were not very well know hollywood movie stars.
> Most of them I had never seen before - and that felt good.
>
Agreed.
> IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as Elrond.
> Not that he played bad, he was good enough,
> but all the time I couldn't help to expect him to say:
> "Mr. Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
>
This too. Although, I also think screenplay played a part in removing
Elrond's majesty and reducing him to trivializing Men and what not.
pawn
> "pawn" <pa...@hanneng.com> kirjoitti
>>Liam Neeson
>
>
> Good choice. His performance in the Gangs of New York
> would be enough to prove he got what it takes. Even though
> he was on only in the opening scene, his presence dominated
> the entire movie. Perfect Aragorn. Would have helped the
> movies a long way.
>
The more I think about it, the more I like it. Maybe I'll just remember
it that way. ;^)
Jake Entrekin
However, looking at it from a "my glass is half
> full" perspective, when you consider how little time they had to find a
> replacement for the original choice of actor, they were indeed lucky to
> get Viggo Mortensen.
I apologize for my "ignorance" in this matter in advance, but who was the
original choice of actor for the role of Aragorn? Thanks!
Roman Werpachowski
> Latet wrote:
>>>although I didn't feel that his own political views were the cause. If
>>>I hadn't known what they were, I wouldn't have been able to detect them
>>>from his acting.
>>
>>
>> I didn't know them and I didn't detect them. I still don't know them.
>> What are they like and what they have to do with his acting?
>>
>
> He is anti-war. I have no problem with that, just that I personally
> couldn't help thinking about it during the scenes where he is trying to
> incite others to war.
He's not inciting them, he's warning them. Quite a difference between him
and...
--
Roman Werpachowski
Latet
> conjuring up visions of the Emerald Isle at just the wrong moment.
For those who don't remeber Aragorn's accent in this sentence:
http://www.xyz.jabluszko.net/lord_of_the_black_land.mp3
Do you mean "shortened" in duration only,
or maybe something that I (not a native English speaker) would try
to describe as shifting the vowel in "black" from a wide and low
"a"-sound (as in American "bad") towards something shorter
and "narrower", almost as "bluck" (in Southern England accent).
If the above description makes no sense to you, I'll try differently:
I've been to Liverpool many times and I noticed that they pronounce
the vowel "a" in words like "black land" quite different than American
or London people would do. If this is what you mean by Irish - I know
what you mean, and there we are :-) I believe that their weird & funny
Liverpudlian dialect might have some Irish roots.
BTW:
Doesn't the same (or simillar) thing happen in American English
sometimes? I'm always puzzled whan I hear Americans saying
"California". What the hell is the first vowel in this word?
Shouln't "Cali-" rhyme with "Badly-"?
I think it should, but - for my ears - it does not!
Isn't it shortened in the same way as Aragorn did in "Black Land"?
And what about words like "pack":
Here's a little sample from the movie "Lost in Translation"
She says: "I'm in. I'll go pack my stuff."
http://www.xyz.jabluszko.net/pack_my_stuff.mp3
Doesn't her "pack" sound a bit like Aragorn's "black"?
She's supposed to be a New Yorker.
It's getting OT, I know... Sorry....
latet
Latet
> > look good with a beard.
> Who says he needs one? ;^)
I can't image a ranger wandering the wilderness for weeks - shaving :-)
How would he do it? With Narsil? :-)
> This too. Although, I also think screenplay played a part in removing
> Elrond's majesty and reducing him to trivializing Men and what not.
Could you please explain the last sentence? It's completely unclear to me.
Thanks,
latet
pawn
Maybe our definition of inciting differs, but I have desccribed two
scenes which I would consider Araforn inciting war. 1. When Theoden
did not want to fight Saruman (paraphrasing):
Theoden: "I will not risk open war with Saruman."
Aragorn: "Open war is upon wehther you would risk it or no."
2. The Braveheartesque speech at the end. What else would you call it?
Warning them?
aelfwina
"pawn" <pa...@hanneng.com> wrote in message
news:405B9D4F...@hanneng.com...
> In my extremely humble opinion, the biggest problem with the movies was
> the choice of Viggo Mortensen for the role of Aragorn. He's too quiet,
For me, his quiet voice as Aragorn seemed just right--one who had spent
years as a Ranger in the wild usually alone and not speaking at all, or when
accompanied, would have to keep that voice down in order to not draw
unwanted attention. Years of keeping to himself even when in places like
Bree he would be among other people. Also, it emphasized another thing for
me, which was, that among those whom he was sworn to protect, he could be
gentle and mild, however fierce to his enemies. (Even though the scene was
not canon, I was touched by the scene where he let Frodo leave, and his
voice was just right.) I certainly never got timid or shy out of his
performance. And as a little ol' Southern girl in Mississippi, I'm clueless
about accents; I'll have to leave that one to someone who knows something
about them. 8-)
Barbara
Roman Werpachowski
> Roman Werpachowski wrote:
>> On the Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:11:37 -0500, pawn wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>He is anti-war. I have no problem with that, just that I personally
>>>couldn't help thinking about it during the scenes where he is trying to
>>>incite others to war.
>>
>>
>> He's not inciting them, he's warning them. Quite a difference between him
>> and...
>
> Maybe our definition of inciting differs, but I have desccribed two
> scenes which I would consider Araforn inciting war. 1. When Theoden
> did not want to fight Saruman (paraphrasing):
>
> Theoden: "I will not risk open war with Saruman."
>
> Aragorn: "Open war is upon wehther you would risk it or no."
This means: you can't avoid war. All you can do is attack first and prevent
disaster.
>
> 2. The Braveheartesque speech at the end. What else would you call it?
> Warning them?
No. Inspiring some hope in men who have but a small chance of survival.
--
Roman Werpachowski
pawn
>>>I do agree. He would have been good. However, I don't think he would
>>>look good with a beard.
>>
>>Who says he needs one? ;^)
>
>
> I can't image a ranger wandering the wilderness for weeks - shaving :-)
> How would he do it? With Narsil? :-)
>
Sure, he uses one shard as a razor, and another as a mirror. I think PJ
could have pulled this off.
>
>>This too. Although, I also think screenplay played a part in removing
>>Elrond's majesty and reducing him to trivializing Men and what not.
>
>
> Could you please explain the last sentence? It's completely unclear to me.
FotR. Gandalf and Elrond discussing their allies, Elrond first berates
Gandalf for presuming the Ring could stay in Rivendell, then goes off on
a rant about how pathetic men are. Both very unElrondish, IMO.
Latet
> about accents;
What do you mean?
I can't believe that, let's say, if you met 2 British guys,
one speaking with London accent and the other in Scottish,
you couldn't tell wich one is wich. Is that possible?
Thanks,
latet
Berislav Lopac
> Who else do you think would have been a good Aragorn? In my opinion,
> it could have changed the movies entirely (for the better).
For me, Daniel Day Lewis. Actually, considering that J.F.Cooper's novels was
an inspiration for Tolkien, the Hawkeye character in the Last of the
Mohicans (played by DDL in the 1992 movie) was in a way a precursor to
Aragorn: a (White) Man raised to be close friends with Elves/Indians,
skilled in the ways of wilderness etc.
Berislav
buh...@ecn.ab.ca
: > > I do agree. He would have been good. However, I don't think he would
: > > look good with a beard.
: > Who says he needs one? ;^)
: I can't image a ranger wandering the wilderness for weeks - shaving :-)
: How would he do it? With Narsil? :-)
iirc, there are some slight hints in obscure parts of UA to the effect
that those with elvish blood (including the line of elendil) *didn't* and
indeed *couldn't* grow beards - they just didn't grow much facial hair.
IDHTBIFOM, but this was discussed on the group a year or two ago, and
google should pull up the relevant stuff. hence, possibly, no need for
Liam/Viggo/Aragorn to shave in the wilderness...
ajb
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Buhr Savour the Irony!
buh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~buhrger
Who are you? What do you want?
aelfwina
"Latet" <la...@xxx.pl> wrote in message
news:14190-10...@host102-ursus.spray.net.pl...
Oh, something that extreme, I probably could. I listen to "Thistle and
Shamrock" and I can sort of tell a Scottish accent from an Irish, say. And
I know that certain accents sound differently, though the only one I could
say was "London" would be Cockney. (I'm sure there are more than that.) I
meant more the knowledge that certain accents were from one area as opposed
to another.
I suppose it would be like asking someone from England to tell the
difference between a Southern Mississippi accent and a North Alabama one.
8-)
Barbara
>
> Thanks,
>
> latet
>
>
Tar-Elenion
> Latet (la...@xxx.pl) wrote:
> : > > I do agree. He would have been good. However, I don't think he would
> : > > look good with a beard.
> : > Who says he needs one? ;^)
>
> : I can't image a ranger wandering the wilderness for weeks - shaving :-)
> : How would he do it? With Narsil? :-)
>
> iirc, there are some slight hints in obscure parts of UA to the effect
> that those with elvish blood (including the line of elendil) *didn't* and
> indeed *couldn't* grow beards - they just didn't grow much facial hair.
> IDHTBIFOM, but this was discussed on the group a year or two ago, and
> google should pull up the relevant stuff. hence, possibly, no need for
> Liam/Viggo/Aragorn to shave in the wilderness...
>
king:
"The brief glow fell upon a huge sitting figure, still and solemn as the
great stone kings of Argonath. The years had gnawed it, and violent
hands had maimed it. Its head was gone, and in its place was set in
mockery a round rough-hewn stone, rudely painted by savage hands in the
likeness of a grinning face with one large red eye in the midst of its
forehead. Upon its knees and mighty chair, and all about the pedestal,
were idle scrawls mixed with the foul symbols that the maggot-folk of
Mordor used.
Suddenly, caught by the level beams, Frodo saw the old king's head:
it was lying rolled away by the roadside. `Look, Sam!' he cried,
startled into speech. `Look! The king has got a crown again!'
The eyes were hollow and the carven beard was broken, but about the
high stern forehead there was a coronal of silver and gold."
LotR, TTT
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
Warchild
wrote:
> Jose L. Solano wrote:
> >>>Liam Neeson
> >>
> >>Would have seemed a good choice, until 'Phantom Menace', in which Liam
> >>played the hero as a walking talking, winding-me-up and wait for me to
> >>get killed doll.
> >
> >
> > You realize Aragorn and Qui-Gon Jinn are completely different characters,
> > right?
You mean QuiGon wasn't supposed to be a heroic leader? Right?
Jiromi
>BTW:
>Doesn't the same (or simillar) thing happen in American English
>sometimes? I'm always puzzled whan I hear Americans saying
>"California". What the hell is the first vowel in this word?
>Shouln't "Cali-" rhyme with "Badly-"?
No.
Americans pronounce "badly" with pretty much the same sound as in "hair" or
"mare."
The "Cal" in California sounds like "Halle" Berry or "tally" or "Sally."
>I think it should, but - for my ears - it does not!
>Isn't it shortened in the same way as Aragorn did in "Black Land"?
I can understand the "Irish" suggestion about this particular line, but I think
it's silly for people to focus on the sound of one or two lines when the actor
spoke many, many lines of dialogue over 3 films. No performance is flawless.
Viggo may have given a number of readings for that line, and this one was
chosen because, for whatever reason, it came across the best to the director.
>And what about words like "pack":
>Here's a little sample from the movie "Lost in Translation"
>She says: "I'm in. I'll go pack my stuff."
>http://www.xyz.jabluszko.net/pack_my_stuff.mp3
>Doesn't her "pack" sound a bit like Aragorn's "black"?
>She's supposed to be a New Yorker.
I was born and raised in New York City, and I've never noticed "pack" and
"black" being pronounced differently anywhere in the U.S. Now, if you're
"tawking" about a word like "cawfee," there is definitely a special New Yawk
sound for that.
:)
Living in Georgia now, I note that people pronounce "hilarious" like
"hil-AIR-ious" and "pajamas" like "puh-JAIM-uhs", ("jam" sounding like like
"jail") but "pack" and "black" sound the same to me as they did in NYC.
I think Viggo did a fantastic job as Aragorn. I also think that either Liam
Neeson or Daniel Day Lewis would have worked well, but I like the fact that
most of the cast was not as well known as those two.
Ronnie
--
"Where is the horse and the rider? No, seriously, where are they? That was
my favorite horse." - Cassie Claire, The Very Secret Diary Of Theoden
Jake Entrekin
guess I could see him being Aragorn, but I still think Viggo was a perfect
fit, lack of english accent or not ;)
"Speaking Clock" <ext2350(cut-this-out-)@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3hpq3$27qj1p$1...@ID-93488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Jake Entrekin wrote:
>
> > I apologize for my "ignorance" in this matter in advance, but who was
> > the original choice of actor for the role of Aragorn? Thanks!
>
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0870204/, but just before filming started
> Peter Jackson decided he wasn't the right person after all and he was
> "let go". I think the main complaint about him was that he was too
> young, but you'd think, wouldn't you, that they would have spotted that
> before they offered him the job?
> --
> Speaking Clock
>
Flame of the West
> >IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as Elrond.
> >Not that he played bad, he was good enough,
> >but all the time I couldn't help to expect him to say:
> >"Mr. Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
>
> Only a problem if you watched the Matrix.
Actually, I think the problem with that chap is that he watches
things like "The Matrix" and little else. Most of the LotR cast
have had previous roles.
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
pawn
>
Who are you talking to numbnuts? Please, just go away.
pawn
> On the Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:25:00 -0500, pawn wrote:
>>
>>Maybe our definition of inciting differs, but I have desccribed two
>>scenes which I would consider Araforn inciting war. 1. When Theoden
>>did not want to fight Saruman (paraphrasing):
>>
>>Theoden: "I will not risk open war with Saruman."
>>
>>Aragorn: "Open war is upon wehther you would risk it or no."
>
>
> This means: you can't avoid war. All you can do is attack first and prevent
> disaster.
>
Sorry dude, he was specifically trying to convince Theoden to fight.
>
>>2. The Braveheartesque speech at the end. What else would you call it?
>> Warning them?
>
>
> No. Inspiring some hope in men who have but a small chance of survival.
Inspiring, inciting, potato, err..potato.
Latet
> things like "The Matrix" and little else. Most of the LotR cast
> have had previous roles.
Try to live in Poland and watch rare movies. Good luck.
latet
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:20040320075257...@mb-m25.aol.com:
>>IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as
>>Elrond. Not that he played bad, he was good enough, but all
>>the time I couldn't help to expect him to say: "Mr.
>>Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
>
> Only a problem if you watched the Matrix. I haven't and
> think Elrond is a great character and Hugo Weaving does a
> great job of bringing him alive.
>
>
Feh. I saw him in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, 1st, then
Matrix. At least was wearing something closer to a gown in LoTR.
I not only expected him to utter the Mr Anderson line, tho - I
also expected him to done a (tasteful) boa and break out in over-
done dancing.
But he was a great choice for an elf - and did good as Elrond.
--
mc
the softrat
>
>BTW:
>Doesn't the same (or simillar) thing happen in American English
>sometimes? I'm always puzzled whan I hear Americans saying
>"California". What the hell is the first vowel in this word?
>Shouln't "Cali-" rhyme with "Badly-"?
>I think it should, but - for my ears - it does not!
Nope, because the 'a' in 'California' is unaccented and the 'a' in
'badly' is accented. In California, the way the 'a' is pronounced
depends upon the ethnic background of the speaker. Anglos tend to make
a schwa out of it as they do with many unaccented vowels. OTOH it is
wide open coming from Hispanics (and Gov. Arnie).
the softrat
"LotR: Eleven Oscars! Right up there with _Titanic_!"
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
What happens if you get scared half to death twice? -- Steven
Wright
Fred the Red Shirt
>
> > Viggo's biggest problems were his lightweight voice
> > and his inability to sustain an English accent. He turned completely
> > Irish-sounding with his "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth"!
>
> You mean his R's in "Lord" and "forth" or something else?
>
> > > Liam Neeson
> > I think he would have been an excellent Aragorn.
>
> More Irish-sounding? ;-)
I thought Mortensen was finaw Aragorn and cannot imagine anyone
doing better. The problems with the movie Aragorn alluded to
earlier stem from the script and direction. The movie Aragorn
was hesitant and overly humble--independently of the actor playing
him.
>
> > [Reagarding Liam Neesum (sp?] He has tremendous
> > physical presence and there's a sort of sadness about him that would
> > have been appropriate.
>
> I do agree. He would have been good. However, I don't think he would
> look good with a beard.
>
He didn't need one. Google for Aragorn and beard.
> On the other hand - one of the good things about LOTR movies
> was that the actors were not very well know hollywood movie stars.
> Most of them I had never seen before - and that felt good.
>
> IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as Elrond.
> Not that he played bad, he was good enough,
> but all the time I couldn't help to expect him to say:
> "Mr. Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
>
I thought he was perfect as Elrond, but later when I saw the Matrix
I kept thinking, what's Elrond doing in this movie....
I would have like to see a somewhat older actor cast as Frodo. Although
Frodo was supposed to more youthful in appearance than a typical hobbit
entering middle age, Elijah Wood was just too young. He did a fine
job acting however.
--
FF
Latet
> I kept thinking, what's Elrond doing in this movie....
That could be the explanation for Elves' immortality!
Elves are not really flesh&blood, they are agents, programs :-)
latet
Gary E. Masters
> >However, a friend (non-Tolkien) fan) offered an idea that intrigued me
> >the other day:
> >
> >Liam Neeson
> >
>
> know him as Qui-Gon from Star Wars, which isn't a very accurate display of his
> skill as an actor... but I think he would've made a good Aragorn... though his
> scenes with Arwen might've seemed a little odd.
>
>
>
> Jose L. Solano
> -------------------------------
> A devious, degenerate defender of the devil
> -------------------------------
> "It's too damn safe."
I know Neeson is better suitsd from his work as Rob Roy in the film of
the same name. The fight at the end is riviting. They seem truly
exhausted. He could do good work in Tolkien.
J.G. Ballard
Tar-Elenion <tar_e...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I take this to mean that, although the kings of Numenore had some elvish
blood, they didn't have enough to keep them from growing their mannish
beards. Or, it could be that even if the Numenoreans had enough elvish
blood left in them that they weren't exactly hirsute, they, like elves,
could grow beards in their (really) old age. Didn't Cirdan have a
beard?
Jon
Tar-Elenion
7930B4.234...@netnews.comcast.net>, jgballar...@yahoo.com
says...
> In article <MPG.1ac635dda...@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> Tar-Elenion <tar_e...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > king:
> > "The brief glow fell upon a huge sitting figure, still and solemn as the
> > great stone kings of Argonath. The years had gnawed it, and violent
> > hands had maimed it. Its head was gone, and in its place was set in
> > mockery a round rough-hewn stone, rudely painted by savage hands in the
> > likeness of a grinning face with one large red eye in the midst of its
> > forehead. Upon its knees and mighty chair, and all about the pedestal,
> > were idle scrawls mixed with the foul symbols that the maggot-folk of
> > Mordor used.
> > Suddenly, caught by the level beams, Frodo saw the old king's head:
> > it was lying rolled away by the roadside. `Look, Sam!' he cried,
> > startled into speech. `Look! The king has got a crown again!'
> > The eyes were hollow and the carven beard was broken, but about the
> > high stern forehead there was a coronal of silver and gold."
> > LotR, TTT
>
> I take this to mean that, although the kings of Numenore had some elvish
> blood, they didn't have enough to keep them from growing their mannish
> beards. Or, it could be that even if the Numenoreans had enough elvish
> blood left in them that they weren't exactly hirsute, they, like elves,
> could grow beards in their (really) old age. Didn't Cirdan have a
> beard?
>
On Elves growing beards JRRT wrote:
"Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life.
Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in his second."
This was published in Vinyar Tengwar 41 in this paragraph:
"The following etymological note [[which I am not quoting]] pertains to
the name Russandol in the discussion of the name Maitimo in the numbered
list of the names of the seven sons of F?anor (XII:352-53). A marginal
note against that discussion provides the detail that Nerdanel "herself
had brown hair and a ruddy complexion". A note elsewhere in the papers
associated with this essay reads: "Elves did not have beards until they
entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66
n.61] was exceptional, being only early in his second.""
Roman Werpachowski
> hopeandf...@aol.comkhyucft (Hope) wrote in message news:
>
>> >IMHO - the biggest casting mistake was Agent Smith as Elrond.
>> >Not that he played bad, he was good enough,
>> >but all the time I couldn't help to expect him to say:
>> >"Mr. Anderson, what are you doing here in Rivendell?"
>>
>> Only a problem if you watched the Matrix.
>
> Actually, I think the problem with that chap is that he watches
> things like "The Matrix" and little else. Most of the LotR cast
> have had previous roles.
I watched "The Matrix" about 2 times before seeing "FOTR" in the theatre and
yes, I had the same thought. And I'm not a particular fan of "The Matrix".
This guy had a very good role in "The Matrix". IMHO, P.J. should have
considered this and made Elron more lively, more emotional. Elrond in FOTR
is so cool and restricted, that he does not make enough contrast from Agent
Smith to make it easy for the viewer to forget this character.
--
Roman Werpachowski
Roman Werpachowski
Absurd. Poland IS NOT a cultural desert.
--
Roman Werpachowski
the softrat
Not like Portugal, then ?
the softrat
"LotR: Eleven Oscars! Right up there with _Titanic_!"
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Turn on, tune in, drop out. Do not attempt while in an aeroplane.
Roman Werpachowski
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:04:42 +0000 (UTC), Roman Werpachowski
><roman...@student.ifpan.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>>On the Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:03:18 +0100, Latet wrote:
>>>> Actually, I think the problem with that chap is that he watches
>>>> things like "The Matrix" and little else. Most of the LotR cast
>>>> have had previous roles.
>>>
>>> Try to live in Poland and watch rare movies. Good luck.
>>>
>>> latet
>>
>>Absurd. Poland IS NOT a cultural desert.
>
> Not like Portugal, then ?
Why should Portugal be?
--
Roman Werpachowski
the softrat
<roman...@student.ifpan.edu.pl> wrote:
>On the Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:32:15 -0800, the softrat wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:04:42 +0000 (UTC), Roman Werpachowski
>><roman...@student.ifpan.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>>Absurd. Poland IS NOT a cultural desert.
>>
>> Not like Portugal, then ?
>
>Why should Portugal be?
'cause it's next in the list after Poland....
the softrat
"LotR: Eleven Oscars! Right up there with _Titanic_!"
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
God? I'm no God! God has MERCY!
Latet
wiadomości news:slrnc606gn.ge...@student.ifpan.edu.pl...
That is not what I meant, dear fellow countryman.
Poland has it's own culture, and in addition, *imports*
quite a big part of American culture (and not only American).
But not every lousy American B-movie can be watched
in Polish theathers or rented (esp. when you don't use videos,
but DVD's only) - the selection is limited.
Here's the list of movies in which Billy Boyd (Pippin)
played before LOTR
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0101710/
1.. Julie and the Cadillacs (1999) ....
2.. Coming Soon (1999/II) (TV) ....
3.. Urban Ghost Story (1998) ....
4.. Soldier's Leap, The (1998) ....
5.. Taggart: Dead Mans Chest (1996) (TV) ....
Are you so sure they are all so easy to come by in Poland?
latet
Roman Werpachowski
No, I'm not. Your post sounded like you were complaining on the lack of
ambitious movies, not B-class movies.
--
Roman Werpachowski
Roman Werpachowski
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:22:53 +0000 (UTC), Roman Werpachowski
><roman...@student.ifpan.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>>On the Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:32:15 -0800, the softrat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:04:42 +0000 (UTC), Roman Werpachowski
>>><roman...@student.ifpan.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Absurd. Poland IS NOT a cultural desert.
>>>
>>> Not like Portugal, then ?
>>
>>Why should Portugal be?
>
> 'cause it's next in the list after Poland....
What list?
--
Roman Werpachowski
J Swanson
news:slrnc65bcr.i4...@student.ifpan.edu.pl:
Never mind the geographically challenged American. You know, Stockholm is
the capital of Switzerland, Warsaw the capital of Portugal.
John
--
Tar-Elenion, about the nuclear bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki:
"What is relevant is that it was completely worth it if it saved just one
more Allied life (perhaps my father)."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3014887714d&dq=&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&oe=UTF-8&selm=MPG.18f132cf357a1540989745%40netnews.attbi.com
'You think, as is your wont, my lord, of Gondor only,' said Gandalf. 'Yet
there are other men and other lives, and time still to be. And for me, I
pity even his slaves.'
Raven
news:Xns94B777C9EC...@195.67.237.53...
> Never mind the geographically challenged American. You know, Stockholm is
> the capital of Switzerland, Warsaw the capital of Portugal.
...Lithuania is the capital of Bratislava, and "Moldavia" may be used as
the name of a fictitious European monarchy...
Then again, how many US state capitals can a typical European name
withouth consulting an atlas?
Corb.
Blackthorn
"Raven" <jonlennar...@damn.get2net.that.dk.spam> wrote in message
news:oQI8c.988$wd4...@news.get2net.dk...
How many regional European capitals can an American name?
Latet
> withouth consulting an atlas?
US states are not countries!
I should ask then:
How many Americans can name capitals of provinces of *any*
European country?
But, that's OK.
The worst things are met in my life were *countless* Frenchmen,
who thought we speak Russian in Poland!!! Doh!!!
latet
Morgil
"Raven" <jonlennar...@damn.get2net.that.dk.spam> kirjoitti
viestissä:oQI8c.988$wd4...@news.get2net.dk...
How many US state capitals can a typical American name? ;-)
Morgil
Guitarfish
I can name 7, counting the state I live in.
(hangs head in shame, returns to lurk in the shadow)
GF
"Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3vper$k93$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
Michael P. Reed
Irrelevant to the counter-point, which is that Europeans are just as ignorant of
the "outside world" as anyone else? In this regard, people are the same over.
Besides, Ohio *is* a foreign land, isn't it? <g>
--
Regards,
Michael P. Reed
Henriette
> Then again, how many US state capitals can a typical European name
> withouth consulting an atlas?
>
I think I could name some, and have a good guess at some others. But
why the *capitals*? I think I could name very many *states*, which I
think is already quite an accomplishment.
Henriette
Kristian Damm Jensen
Most Danes wouldn't even get the *number* of states correct, let alone name
a significant part of them.
--
Kristian Damm Jensen damm (at) ofir (dot) dk
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you.
Then you win. -- Mohandas Mahatma Gandhi
Steve Hayes
How many people in the US can distinguish between state capitals and state
capitols?
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: haye...@hotmail.com
Web: http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/books.htm
aelfwina
"Blackthorn" <nena...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c3vmso$29125c$1...@ID-202064.news.uni-berlin.de...
Sigh...when I was in fourth grade? Most of them. 42 years later? A few.
Barbara
>
>
aelfwina
Immediately, about a dozen, but with enough time, I can still get through
all of them. Of course, I have an unfair advantage, having subbed for fifth
graders, I had my memory refreshed a few years ago.
Barbara
>
> Morgil
>
>
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:4063f77e....@news.saix.net:
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:10:01 +0100, "Raven"
> <jonlennar...@damn.get2net.that.dk.spam> wrote:
>
>>"J Swanson" <nos...@nospam.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>>news:Xns94B777C9EC...@195.67.237.53...
>>
>>> Never mind the geographically challenged American. You
>>> know, Stockholm is the capital of Switzerland, Warsaw the
>>> capital of Portugal.
>>
>> ...Lithuania is the capital of Bratislava, and "Moldavia"
>> may be used as
>>the name of a fictitious European monarchy...
>> Then again, how many US state capitals can a typical
>> European name withouth consulting an atlas?
>
> How many people in the US can distinguish between state
> capitals and state capitols?
>
>
99 percent of the secretaries.
--
mc
the softrat
NOT in my experience!
the softrat
"LotR: Eleven Oscars! Right up there with _Titanic_!"
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
APATHY ERROR: Don't bother striking any key.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>haye...@hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in
>news:4063f77e....@news.saix.net:
>> How many people in the US can distinguish between state
>> capitals and state capitols?
>>
>>
>
>99 percent of the secretaries.
And I estimate about 20% of the Usenet posters.
Hammer
"Blackthorn" <nena...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c3vmso$29125c$1...@ID-202064.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
Every single one we care about, which means - few to none. Most outsiders
still don't get it, this is -our- world now. Europeans had their time, now
their only legitimate use is to serve US! Whine and complain all you want,
but America is the center of the universe and that's not going to change
anytime soon. Get used to it.
Stephen Horgan
I assume this is meant as a, very poor, joke. Because, frankly, those
Europeans who like and respect America have enough trouble as it is
without morons from across the pond confirming their own worst
stereotypes.
--
Stephen Horgan, http://www.horgan.org.uk
"intelligent people will tend to overvalue intelligence"
aelfwina
"Hammer" <for...@bout.it> wrote in message
news:CEf9c.345770$Po1.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Blackthorn" <nena...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c3vmso$29125c$1...@ID-202064.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > How many regional European capitals can an American name?
I *hope* you're joking. If you are, it's not very funny.
Barbara
The American
Sorry.
England is to 19th century as USA is to 20th century as China is to 21st
century.
What's the capital of China's Yunnan Province?
Don't know?
Your grandkids probably will.
T.A.
Hammer
"Stephen Horgan" <ste...@horgan.REMOVETOREPLY.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jg4c60dn0ckb2nvu3...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:50:26 GMT, "Hammer" <for...@bout.it> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Blackthorn" <nena...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:c3vmso$29125c$1...@ID-202064.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>
> >> How many regional European capitals can an American name?
> >
> >Every single one we care about, which means - few to none. Most outsiders
> >still don't get it, this is -our- world now. Europeans had their time,
now
> >their only legitimate use is to serve US! Whine and complain all you
want,
> >but America is the center of the universe and that's not going to change
> >anytime soon. Get used to it.
> >
> I assume this is meant as a, very poor, joke. Because, frankly, those
> Europeans who like and respect America have enough trouble as it is
> without morons from across the pond confirming their own worst
> stereotypes.
It's the truth for most Americans, and the fact that others don't like it
doesn't make them morons. We've had enough back-stabbing from our so-called
friends in Europe, and we couldn't care less about whatever thoughts,
feelings, or stereotypes they may have. One would have thought that'd be
apparent by now. The Liberals in America who hate their own country look to
Europe for approval and something to admire, but we treat them also like the
misguided losers they are.
This is our world now and the rest of you are just a bunch of squirrels
looking for a nut. If you don't like it, keep whining, crying, and marching.
You saw how much good that did once we decided to go into Iraq. -Our- world.
Bow down and kiss our butt and we may bestow the title of "friend" upon you.
You brought this upon yourselves by taking decades of goodwill for granted,
now you get exactly what you've been accusing us of all along. You think
we'll just sit by and forgive those who've turned their backs on us? Now who
are the morons. LOL
Hammer
"aelfwina" <aelf...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:106cbat...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Hammer" <for...@bout.it> wrote in message
> news:CEf9c.345770$Po1.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > "Blackthorn" <nena...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:c3vmso$29125c$1...@ID-202064.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > How many regional European capitals can an American name?
>
> I *hope* you're joking. If you are, it's not very funny.
> Barbara
Truth often hurts.
Hammer
"The American" <a_real_...@hotspammail.com> wrote in message
news:VuadnVROVOE...@adelphia.com...
Dream on. China knows better than to screw with us. Russia once thought they
could contend, where are they now? -Our- world.
aelfwina
Whatever.
Barbara
>
>
Paul S. Person
>In article <405C4191...@hanneng.com>, pawn <pa...@hanneng.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Jose L. Solano wrote:
<snippo, if I have botched the attributions I apologize>
>> > You realize Aragorn and Qui-Gon Jinn are completely different characters,
>> > right?
>
>You mean QuiGon wasn't supposed to be a heroic leader? Right?
Qui-Gon was a heroic leader. Book-Aragorn was a heroic leader.
Movie-Aragorn was a slacker who, at the moment the crown is placed on
his head, gives Gandalf a facial expression suggesting he would rather
be doing anything else than becoming King.
So, yes, in the movies they are quite different.
--
I still mostly download on Saturdays & upload on Sundays. Patience is a virtue.
Hashemon Urtasman
The American wrote:
I think England is more like Japan, the US is like the former Ottoman
empire. It got really big, unstoppable, but eventually became too big
and slow for the new world it was in. It's system was designed for
conquest, sultans were judged on how much territory they added. Somehow
they ran out of steam and collapsed into the 'sick man of Europe.' US
CEOs are also judged by how much they *increase* profits. The structure
of a US corporation is as tyrannical as any pasha ever wanted--minus
actual control over people's lives when they leave the office.
Their strengths are the same. Both used foreigners for high offices,
relying on them for many things. Toynbee wrote in his chapter "the
arrested civilizations" in "A study of history," quoting a Flemish
scholar and ambassador: that the Ottomans were have talented men as if
they had found a prized pearl. They gave their ministers the education
of the lifetime and wasted it in mindless bureaucracy and war instead of
human development.
What this brings to mind is the most talented people in the world going
to the US and wasting their time -- like designing packaging for potato
chips or doing useless lawsuits and paper pushing and stuff like that.
The Turks were among the first to use gunpowder in war, but they
abandoned innovation and just used European guncasters instead. China
probably is the US of the next century, but the US was neither England,
France nor Germany of 1900. IMHO today's Europe is like the Hapsburgs
of yesterday, with the US like their rival Turkey.
The parallels you draw depend on what variables you are considering, but
there could be many others. Many things in life depend a great deal on
your point of view.
Hasan
Stephen Horgan
Well, I'm British and we have stood beside the US in two world wars, a
number of minor conflicts and now the fighting in Afghanistan and
Iraq. Are we losers? Should I go to those of my countrymen who revile
the US and who would side with their enemies and tell them that they
were right all along and that the Americans are arrogant imperialists
who should be opposed at every turn?
>This is our world now and the rest of you are just a bunch of squirrels
>looking for a nut. If you don't like it, keep whining, crying, and marching.
>You saw how much good that did once we decided to go into Iraq. -Our- world.
>Bow down and kiss our butt and we may bestow the title of "friend" upon you.
>You brought this upon yourselves by taking decades of goodwill for granted,
>now you get exactly what you've been accusing us of all along. You think
>we'll just sit by and forgive those who've turned their backs on us? Now who
>are the morons. LOL
>
Brought what on ourselves? As we bury our dead from Iraq what are you
going to do to us?
aelfwina
"Paul S. Person" <ppe...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:fl1e60p1jrq1f8dj4...@4ax.com...
> Warchild <no...@none.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <405C4191...@hanneng.com>, pawn <pa...@hanneng.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Jose L. Solano wrote:
>
> <snippo, if I have botched the attributions I apologize>
>
> >> > You realize Aragorn and Qui-Gon Jinn are completely different
characters,
> >> > right?
> >
> >You mean QuiGon wasn't supposed to be a heroic leader? Right?
>
> Qui-Gon was a heroic leader. Book-Aragorn was a heroic leader.
> Movie-Aragorn was a slacker who, at the moment the crown is placed on
> his head, gives Gandalf a facial expression suggesting he would rather
> be doing anything else than becoming King.
It's odd how people can get different interpretations of the same material.
I never saw the movie Aragorn as a slacker, but rather as one who was
reluctant because he knew that he might not be worthy of the honor he was
destined for, and one who did *not* crave power. The same impression I had
of book-Aragorn. This, in fact, is very Tolkien. He held that the only
ones worthy of *having* power were those who did *not* in fact, *want* it.
If he had been a glory hound in the movie, now *that* would have ruined it
for me.
Barbara
Raven
news:106e5pa...@corp.supernews.com...
> This, in fact, is very Tolkien. He held that the only ones worthy of
> *having* power were those who did *not* in fact, *want* it.
This is Arthur C. Clarke's sentiment too, it seems. In a prediction he
made about the world some centuries into the future, he envisioned a World
President selected by a computer randomly from among the qualified ones who
had never expressed interest in politics.
Hrafn.
Een Wilde Ier
Just a minor nitpick, but didn't *they* stand by *you* (eventually)?
> a
> number of minor conflicts and now the fighting in Afghanistan and
> Iraq. Are we losers? Should I go to those of my countrymen who revile
> the US and who would side with their enemies
Now, now!
Morgil
"aelfwina" <aelf...@cableone.net> kirjoitti
viestissä:106e5pa...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Paul S. Person" <ppe...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:fl1e60p1jrq1f8dj4...@4ax.com...
> > Movie-Aragorn was a slacker who, at the moment the crown is placed on
> > his head, gives Gandalf a facial expression suggesting he would rather
> > be doing anything else than becoming King.
>
> It's odd how people can get different interpretations of the same
material.
> I never saw the movie Aragorn as a slacker, but rather as one who was
> reluctant because he knew that he might not be worthy of the honor he was
> destined for, and one who did *not* crave power. The same impression I had
> of book-Aragorn. This, in fact, is very Tolkien. He held that the only
> ones worthy of *having* power were those who did *not* in fact, *want* it.
That's Aslan talking about Prince Caspian of Narnia.
There's nothing like that in Tolkien's books, especially
not about Aragorn. Kingship had always been his goal.
Morgil
TeaLady (Mari C.)
and etc began, and still froths on despite the fact no one has
even ordered a cup of coffee, much less requested heated and
frothed milk to go with it.
"Blackthorn" entered the fray and added his poke at the
education and intelligence of 'murkins
>>>>>>How many regional European capitals can an American
>>>>>>name?
Then "Hammer"<for...@bout.it> jerked his knees, baited his
hook, chummed the waters, and hacked up a hairball:
>>>>>Every single one we care about, which means - few to
>>>>>none. Most outsiders still don't get it, this is -our-
>>>>>world now. Europeans had their time, now their only
>>>>>legitimate use is to serve US! Whine and complain all you
>>>>>want,but America is the center of the universe and that's
>>>>>not going to change anytime soon. Get used to it.
>>>
Then Hammer tossed out more bait, and another hairball
>>>It's the truth for most Americans, and the fact that others
>>>don't like it doesn't make them morons. We've had enough
>>>back-stabbing from our so-called friends in Europe, and we
>>>couldn't care less about whatever thoughts, feelings, or
>>>stereotypes they may have. One would have thought that'd be
>>>apparent by now. The Liberals in America who hate their own
>>>country look to Europe for approval and something to
>>>admire, but we treat them also like the misguided losers
>>>they are.
>>>
Unfortunately, the Hammers of the US are the loudest and the
most visible, much like the middle-class clothing-challenged
golfers who threaten to blind fellow duffers on yurpean short-
grassed sandy trapped playing fields. Also unfortunately, it
appears the yurpeans are no less prone to rising to a chummed
water than anyone else.
The Hammers of the US are not an indiginous species, however,
and can be found world-wide, in varying plumages and sizes yet
all having the same call and same mannerism. A few may have
adopted a mimicry camoflage, but the mating call and the basic
behavoir patterns remain. European Hammers may Sherrip rather
than Chirrup, yet they spout the same nonense.
This is not an edible or beneficial species, yet it is very
tenacious, and, like the kudzo that has spread throughout the
Southern USA, is hard to eradicate. Unlike the kudzo, however,
ignoring this pest tends to send it scurrying away, as it needs
a responding call in order to mark, and maintain, its
territorial boundry.
Of course, I shall now be branded a yurpean loving murkin hating
liberal pansy wuss. Such is life, and usenet.
--
mc
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:c47a35$v25$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
Aragorn seemed, to me, to be of two minds about being king. He
wanted it, it was his destiny and blood-right, yes, but it also
meant the end of the elves, as they would leave Middle-earth for
the West, or fade. He was to be the 1st King of the 4th age,
the Age of Men. That had to have saddened him.
I do agree he did not crave the kingship - he wasn't going to
achieve kingship by ignoble means. I'm not sure what is meant
by the "power" - a king must have power, or his rule is
ineffective; power such as Saruman or Sauron wanted was *not*
the sort that Aragorn would wield, or want to, but he knew that
he would have to shoulder some kind of power.
Aragorn was patient, thoughtful and prepared, and knew that
rushing to Gondor and appointing himself king (or King) was not
going to achieve anything useful, and could put him on the same
path, perhaps, that Saruman (and Sauron ?) fell onto. He had to
prove his worth, and his right to, and he had to be accepted by,
the people he was to rule.
Even though I have the impression that he would have preferred
to live in a peaceful time, and would sorely miss the elves and
their wisdom and grace, I never thought that he did not want to
be King. He was not reluctant.
--
mc
The American
"TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BADB9...@130.133.1.4...
No way!
That was beautiful.
:o)
T.A.
J Swanson
<snip>
> Unfortunately, the Hammers of the US are the loudest and the
> most visible, much like the middle-class clothing-challenged
> golfers who threaten to blind fellow duffers on yurpean short-
> grassed sandy trapped playing fields. Also unfortunately, it
> appears the yurpeans are no less prone to rising to a chummed
> water than anyone else.
>
> The Hammers of the US are not an indiginous species, however,
> and can be found world-wide, in varying plumages and sizes yet
> all having the same call and same mannerism. A few may have
> adopted a mimicry camoflage, but the mating call and the basic
> behavoir patterns remain. European Hammers may Sherrip rather
> than Chirrup, yet they spout the same nonense.
>
> This is not an edible or beneficial species, yet it is very
> tenacious, and, like the kudzo that has spread throughout the
> Southern USA, is hard to eradicate. Unlike the kudzo, however,
> ignoring this pest tends to send it scurrying away, as it needs
> a responding call in order to mark, and maintain, its
> territorial boundry.
<snip>
Well spoken. A relief to read.
John
--
Tar-Elenion, about the nuclear bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki:
"What is relevant is that it was completely worth it if it saved just one
more Allied life (perhaps my father)."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3014887714d&dq=&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&oe=UTF-8&selm=MPG.18f132cf357a1540989745%40netnews.attbi.com
'You think, as is your wont, my lord, of Gondor only,' said Gandalf. 'Yet
there are other men and other lives, and time still to be. And for me, I
pity even his slaves.'
Taemon
> Then "Hammer"<for...@bout.it> jerked his knees, baited
> his hook, chummed the waters, and hacked up a hairball:
You can all stop feeding the troll now, since it is gone.
T.
Roman Werpachowski
> Dream on. China knows better than to screw with us. Russia once thought they
> could contend, where are they now? -Our- world.
Read the history of Rome. Empires rise and fall. If you're that
all-so-mighty and powerful, than how come that:
1. a bunch of guys from Saudi Arabia gets a plane, wipes two major buildings
in your biggest city, and 2.5 years after, you *still* can't get their
leader?
2. only a warning from the EU makes Bush change his economic policy
(dropping the steel tariffs)?
You're the mightiest only in military terms. Economically, EU is as good as
you. And with the expansion (400 million people on a single market) we'll
get bigger than you. Buy you out. And laugh.
--
Roman Werpachowski
Morgil
"TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:Xns94BAE0F...@130.133.1.4...
> "Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:c47a35$v25$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
>
> >
> > "aelfwina" <aelf...@cableone.net> kirjoitti
> > viestissä:106e5pa...@corp.supernews.com...
> >> It's odd how people can get different interpretations of
> >> the same material. I never saw the movie Aragorn as a
> >> slacker, but rather as one who was reluctant because he
> >> knew that he might not be worthy of the honor he was
> >> destined for, and one who did *not* crave power. The same
> >> impression I had of book-Aragorn. This, in fact, is very
> >> Tolkien. He held that the only ones worthy of *having*
> >> power were those who did *not* in fact, *want* it.
> >
> > That's Aslan talking about Prince Caspian of Narnia.
> > There's nothing like that in Tolkien's books, especially
> > not about Aragorn. Kingship had always been his goal.
> >
>
> Aragorn seemed, to me, to be of two minds about being king. He
> wanted it, it was his destiny and blood-right, yes, but it also
> meant the end of the elves, as they would leave Middle-earth for
> the West, or fade. He was to be the 1st King of the 4th age,
> the Age of Men. That had to have saddened him.
Surely it saddened everyone, buit Aragorn becoming a King
had nothing to do with the departure of Elves. It would have
happened in any case, when the Three Rings lost their power.
In fact Aragorn's Kingship was meant to preserve a little bit
of Elvishness in the Age of Men, which would have been yet
another reason for him to want to be the King.
> Even though I have the impression that he would have preferred
> to live in a peaceful time, and would sorely miss the elves and
> their wisdom and grace, I never thought that he did not want to
> be King. He was not reluctant.
Precisely.
Morgil
aelfwina
"Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c47a35$v25$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
It may not have been baldly stated, but it was an important subtext in
Tolkien's work. Bad guys= power grabbers: Sauron, Saruman, Denethor, ( I
seem to remember some scathing remarks on Denethor's power grabbing in one
of the Letters ) even Lotho, and of course Melkor. Good guys= those who
rejected power, or took no more than their due: Gandalf, Tom Bombadil,
*Galadriel*, Sam, Frodo ( of course ) and Aragorn, who took only the power
that was absolutely necessary to fill his role, and only after he had proven
himself.
Barbara
>
> Morgil
>
>
The American
"Hashemon Urtasman" <nos...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:YWD9c.6375$0b4....@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
>
> The American wrote:
>
> > "Hammer" <for...@bout.it> wrote in message
> > news:CEf9c.345770$Po1.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> >>"Blackthorn" <nena...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>news:c3vmso$29125c$1...@ID-202064.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>
> >>>How many regional European capitals can an American name?
> >>
> >>Every single one we care about, which means - few to none. Most
outsiders
> >>still don't get it, this is -our- world now. Europeans had their time,
now
> >>their only legitimate use is to serve US! Whine and complain all you
want,
> >>but America is the center of the universe and that's not going to change
> >>anytime soon. Get used to it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Sorry.
> > England is to 19th century as USA is to 20th century as China is to 21st
> > century.
> > What's the capital of China's Yunnan Province?
> > Don't know?
> > Your grandkids probably will.
> >
>
> I think England is more like Japan,
How is England like Japan?
Other than an island.
T.A.
Hope
>From: "The American" a_real_...@hotspammail.com
>Date: 29/03/2004 16:40 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <106ggr5...@corp.supernews.com>
>How is England like Japan?
>Other than an island.
England isn't an island.
Robert J. Kolker
Roman Werpachowski wrote:
> 1. a bunch of guys from Saudi Arabia gets a plane, wipes two major buildings
> in your biggest city, and 2.5 years after, you *still* can't get their
> leader?
Have you ever seen what the Tora Bora region looks like. It is Cave
City. Besides which UBL has support among the tribesmen. If the U.S.
really wanted him gone, it could nuke the entire area. If the blast
don't kill him the radiation will. The problem is the collateral damage.
Right now the U.S. wants to pretend it is not at war with al Islam.
Eventually that will change.
>
> 2. only a warning from the EU makes Bush change his economic policy
> (dropping the steel tariffs)?
>
> You're the mightiest only in military terms. Economically, EU is as good as
> you. And with the expansion (400 million people on a single market) we'll
> get bigger than you. Buy you out. And laugh.
Doubtful.
Bob Kolker
>
Rich Gibbs
[snip]
>
> It's odd how people can get different interpretations of the same material.
> I never saw the movie Aragorn as a slacker, but rather as one who was
> reluctant because he knew that he might not be worthy of the honor he was
> destined for, and one who did *not* crave power. The same impression I had
> of book-Aragorn. This, in fact, is very Tolkien. He held that the only
> ones worthy of *having* power were those who did *not* in fact, *want* it.
Tolkien's letter to his son Christopher (Letters, #52) makes this very
clear:
"Anyway, the proper study of Man is anything but Man; and the most
improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least
unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is
fit for it, least of all those who seek the opportunity. ... The
medievals were only too right in taking 'nolo episcopari' as the best
reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop."
--
Rich Gibbs
rgi...@his.com
Michael P. Reed
Werpachowski wrote:
> On the Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:52:01 GMT, Hammer wrote:
>
> > Dream on. China knows better than to screw with us. Russia once thought
> they
> > could contend, where are they now? -Our- world.
>
> Read the history of Rome. Empires rise and fall. If you're that
> all-so-mighty and powerful, than how come that:
Of course, the U.S. is not an empire, but you are correct, nations and peoples
come and go, and nothing will last forever (and it now looks as if the universe
is toast). OTOH, the Roman Empire lasted nearly a millenium and the Chinese
empire for two and some change. The U.S. is politically and economically more
dynamic than either. So. . .
> 1. a bunch of guys from Saudi Arabia gets a plane, wipes two major buildings
> in your biggest city, and 2.5 years after, you *still* can't get their
> leader?
A little lesson in the history, art, and science of warfare would be aprapos
here.
> 2. only a warning from the EU makes Bush change his economic policy
> (dropping the steel tariffs)?
Oh, I think it had much more to do with screaming auto industials and their ilk
then any EU huffing and puffing. While a trade war would put a world of hurt
on the U.S., European economies would be devastated.
> You're the mightiest only in military terms. Economically, EU is as good as
> you.
It is? BTW, you do realize the U.S. military is quite small (in comparison to
the nation's size and economy).
> And with the expansion (400 million people on a single market) we'll
> get bigger than you. Buy you out. And laugh.
Most of the dot-pee-el posters I've come across on the 'net have shown a good
deal of intelligence and knowledge, but there are always exceptions of course.
Even Pippin [note the segue] comes off as having greater maturity and wisdom
then you have demonstrated. This entire (off topic) post bespeaks mightily of
a silly school boy rant.
--
Regards,
Michael P. Reed
Odysseus
Strictly speaking, neither is Japan -- but for a different reason.
--
Odysseus
Stephen Horgan
The US entered World War One because the Germans were sinking their
ships and trying to persuade Mexico to annex California and Texas. The
US entered World War Two because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour
and Hitler declared war on them. In both cases they went to war
because of their own national interest, not to bail out the British or
anyone else.
>> a
>> number of minor conflicts and now the fighting in Afghanistan and
>> Iraq. Are we losers? Should I go to those of my countrymen who revile
>> the US and who would side with their enemies
>
>Now, now!
The chap deserved it.
pawn
(snip)
Am I the only one who imagined Marlin Perkins narrating this and could
hear steel drums in the background?
Andrew H. Carter (Applied ROT 17 Left, for Email do 17 Right)
>In my extremely humble opinion, the biggest problem with the movies was
>the choice of Viggo Mortensen for the role of Aragorn. He's too quiet,
>too shy, too small, too timid. It may have been my imagination, but I'd
>also suggest his political views were apparent in his acting as well.
>E.g., his "...war is upon you if you would choose it or no..." line was
>not convincing. Worse, his Braveheart speech at the end of RotK was
>embarrassing.
>
>Problem is, I've never been able to come up with a better name. It's a
>tall order: the Sea King reborn, a natural King of Men. Perhaps it's a
>concept better left to print and imagination.
>
>However, a friend (non-Tolkien) fan) offered an idea that intrigued me
>the other day:
>
>Liam Neeson
>
>I think he could have pulled it off. Perhaps some of the classic film
>actors could have done it: I would offer Gregory Peck.
>
>Who else do you think would have been a good Aragorn? In my opinion, it
>could have changed the movies entirely (for the better).
>
>(note: This is only my opinion. Half-wits that feel it necessary to
>tell me my opinion is wrong need not reply.)
Just found the group and never have believed in lurking, except on rare
occasions, also depending on why I went to a group.
To veer off the path slightly:
I found the acting good, with all the characters, though I found that
Elijah Wood (Frodo) seemed too effeminate (granted he was a hobbit, but
still, there are males and there are females).
What I disliked was that the plot was changed. Shorten it? Fine. Change
it? Nooooooooo!!!! What comes to mind obviously is that Lady Arwen does
not enter into the scene until the House of Elrond, so her character taking
Frodo across the river/stream was incorrect. Now as for casting she was a
good choice. Though elves I've always held to believe as being fair-haired
(id es blonde).
Now, what would be nice, if possible, would be to do a filming of the
Silmarillion and The Hobbit, then do a chronological presentaion of the
films with/out an intermission. The 3 +/- hours for each one went by fast.
Shoot, I saw each one at the theatre, 3-+4 times each. There are always
little bits that you may not catch.
Definitely money well-spent.
--
Sincerely,
Andrew H. Carter d(-_-)b
a.k.a Knob Trample of Woody End
Tar-Elenion
lfmnb...@knuubxdcq.wnc says...
<snip>
>
> What I disliked was that the plot was changed. Shorten it? Fine. Change
> it? Nooooooooo!!!! What comes to mind obviously is that Lady Arwen does
> not enter into the scene until the House of Elrond, so her character taking
> Frodo across the river/stream was incorrect. Now as for casting she was a
> good choice. Though elves I've always held to believe as being fair-haired
> (id es blonde).
>
"In the middle of the table, against the woven cloths upon the wall,
there was a chair under a canopy, and there sat a lady fair to look
upon, and so like was she in form of womanhood to Elrond that Frodo
guessed that she was one of his close kindred. Young she was and yet not
so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her white arms
and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in
her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly she looked, and
thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one who has known many
things that the years bring."
Description of the Eldar in App. F (II):
"They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were
dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more
melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard."
Note that this description is inconsistant with many of the Eldar
described, and should perhaps be taken as a description of the Noldor
(and is generic in any case) (see CT's notes in PoME).
<snip>
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
Andrew H. Carter (Applied ROT 17 Left, for Email do 17 Right)
wrote:
Arwen, consistent with the book, I have no doubt. Merely, I would think
that Tolkien would have had the elves as being blonde/platinum hair. But
alas, that cannot be. At any rate it was an excellent Movie in three
parts.
Tar-Elenion
lfmnb...@knuubxdcq.wnc says...<snip>
> >
> >Description of the Eldar in App. F (II):
> >"They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were
> >dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more
> >melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard."
> >
> >Note that this description is inconsistant with many of the Eldar
> >described, and should perhaps be taken as a description of the Noldor
> >(and is generic in any case) (see CT's notes in PoME).
> >
> ><snip>
>
>
> Arwen, consistent with the book, I have no doubt. Merely, I would think
> that Tolkien would have had the elves as being blonde/platinum hair. But
> alas, that cannot be. At any rate it was an excellent Movie in three
> parts.
>
>
appear in the Silmarilion), Thranduil, Glorfindel, Amroth, one of the
Elves of Lorien is so described as is, in some writings, Celegorm (son
of Feanor). An early description of Luthien had her golden-haired as
well (though this was changed).
:)