COTW, Bk 6, Ch 6, "Many Partings"

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Michelle J. Haines

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Apr 4, 2005, 2:13:30 PM4/4/05
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Chapter of the Week, Book 6, Chapter 6, “Many Partings”

This is rather a slow, languid, summarizing chapter, wrapping up various
loose endings here and there, so therefore was a bit difficult to
summarize. :) I'll give it my best shot.

After the celebrations and ceremonies are over, and all the flower
petals swept out of the street and what-all, those who will not be
permanently residing in Gondor start thinking about heading on home.
The first broaching of the issue is Frodo to Aragorn and Arwen, and
Frodo is told everyone will be leaving in seven days, with the whole
great host coming along – first to bury Theoden, then to travel on for a
while.

It is also at this point that Arwen give her jewel to Frodo, and with it
the promise that he will be able to leave from the Havens in her place,
if he wishes to, and be healed. There's certainly much to discuss in
the vein of if she had any right to do this, or if she was being
presumptuous. The likelihood of her actually communicating with the
Elves or the Valar on the subject was certainly slim to none. She also
suggests that the jewel itself will help when times and memories get rough.

Three days later, Eomer comes back to Gondor to start the funeral
procession back to Rohan. He finally lays eyes on Galadriel, and he and
Gimli exchange words on The Most Beautiful Woman in the World, and bury
their hatchet while agreeing to disagree whether Galadriel or Arwen gets
the title.

The procession picks up Theoden's body with much ceremony and respect,
and the journey gets underway. There's a brief comment about the
exalted company that journeys to take Theoden to his last home.

First stop is Druadan forest, for Aragorn to officially declare
the property of the Wild Men and to further say it's illegal for other
men to enter without their permission.

It takes the company 15 days to travel to Edoras, and then the funeral
occurs after three days. Gleowine sings a stirring tribute to Theoden,
recalling Helm and Eorl the Young, and reprising Eomer's song on the
battlefield:

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising
he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended;
over death, over dread, over doom lifted
out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.

Merry weeps as he says good-bye to his temporary foster-father.

Everyone gathers in the hall to drink to the memory of all the Kings of
the Mark, with them listed in order, and to hail Eomer as the new King.
Eomer takes this opportunity to announce Faramir and Eowyn's engagement.

Aragorn finally addresses Eowyn in the more intimate mode, in a tender
display of friendship:

And he answered: 'I have wished thee joy ever since first I saw thee. It
heals my heart to see thee now in bliss.'

Here we have our first major partings. Faramir and Imrahil stay, along
with Arwen, who says good-bye for the last time to her father, in what's
described as both a private and a bitter moment. Her brother's didn't
leave when he did, that we know of, so presumably she saw them at some
point before they did leave, but I don't think we ever have a definitive
word on that, do we? Eowyn and Eomer give Merry his horn as a parting
gift, with a request to come back to them soon, especially as he is
still a knight of the house.

The company travels next to Helm's Deep, where Legolas visits the
Glittering Caves with Gimli, and the next stop after that is Orthanc,
where they look over the changes Treebeard has made and also learn that
Saruman has been set free to wander with Grima. Aragorn receives the
keys to Orthanc and officially sets Treebeard and the Ents as the
guardians of the place. Treebeard invites Galadriel and Celeborn to
visit Fangorn, which they decline, and it's there that Legolas and Gimli
take their leave of the company and start on their travels home through
the woods of Fangorn.

Everyone says a formal and affectionate farewell, including some sad,
“Well never see each other again.” discussion between the Ent and the
Elves, and fresh Ent-draughts for Pippin and Merry. There's also some
discussion about the Ents being able to look for the Entwives now, and
while Treebeard is skeptical it's possible, he still asks Pippin and
Merry to send word in case they do happen to see some Entwives in the Shire.

Aragorn then takes his leave of everyone, and with another affectionate
and formal goodbye, leaves for the South, holding out his green stone to
flash in a token of farewell.

-sniff- All these goodbyes are getting to me.

Six days after their farewell to Aragorn, the company comes across
Saruman and Grima. Saruman is bitter, mean, nasty, insults each party
member in turn – obviously feeling himself quite ill-used – and when
offered some tobacco by Merry, rudely walks off with Merry's tobacco
pouch, saying it's just a small amount being returned to him by a thief.
Pippin sniffs they had a legitimate claim after being kidnapped by
Saruman's orcs, but perceptive Sam takes Saruman's comments about the
Shire to mean something is amiss at home, and is of course, quite
correct. Frodo is determined to stop in Rivendell to see Bilbo first,
however, regardless of what else is happening.

The company travels into Eregion (it's now September), and near the
Gates of Moria, stop and camp for seven days before another parting.
The Elders spend much of the nights communicating with each other
telepathically and sharing information and memories. The group headed
for Rivendell watches the Lorien group until they're out of sight, and
Galadriel holds up her ring to the light in farewell. We see this kind
of frequently. What is the significance of holding up a jewel of some
sort to the light to say goodbye, anyway?

Finally, the group reaches Rivendell on September 21st, the day before
Bilbo and Frodo's birthday. They spend much time with Bilbo, telling
him all their adventures for the book he's “writing”, but soon realize
Bilbo is too no longer really interesting in writing anything but
poetry, and that they'll have to write the history of their travels
themselves. Bilbo is definitely getting old and tired, if quite content.

The time moves on into October, and the weather begins to turn, not to
mention Sam is feeling anxious about the Shire and his father, so it's
time to travel on home. Gandalf is coming along for a little while to
have a chat with Butterbur and Bombadil. Bilbo hands out a few presents
(in Frodo's case, some he already gave him) and a bit of advice.

During the farewells, Elrond has a private word with Frodo, telling him
to start looking for Bilbo and the Elves in the fall in the next few
years, because the time they will be leaving is coming soon. Frodo
keeps this to himself.

And we close this relatively quiet chapter on that note.

Really not a lot for me to add in the way of comments or questions,
other than what I have already. I'll leave that to the rest of you.

Michelle
Flutist

Michelle J. Haines

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Apr 4, 2005, 2:30:02 PM4/4/05
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Michelle J. Haines wrote:
>
> During the farewells, Elrond has a private word with Frodo, telling him
> to start looking for Bilbo and the Elves in the fall in the next few
> years, because the time they will be leaving is coming soon. Frodo
> keeps this to himself.

Actually, I do have one comment after all, that I thought about after
postings.

Both Arwen and Elrond seem fairly confident that the Hobbits will be
accepted if they travel West on the ships. How the heck do they know
this?

Michelle
Flutist

AC

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Apr 4, 2005, 2:30:08 PM4/4/05
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I don't have Letters in front of me, but as I recall Tolkien states that
this was all arranged by Gandalf, as a representative of the Valar.

--
mightym...@hotmail.com

Christopher Kreuzer

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Apr 4, 2005, 5:32:32 PM4/4/05
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Michelle J. Haines <mhaine...@enigo.com> wrote:
> Chapter of the Week, Book 6, Chapter 6, “Many Partings”

<snip>

> Aragorn then takes his leave of everyone, and with another
> affectionate and formal goodbye, leaves for the South, holding out
> his green stone to flash in a token of farewell.

<snip>

> Galadriel holds up her ring to the light in farewell. We see this
> kind of frequently. What is the significance of holding up a jewel
> of some sort to the light to say goodbye, anyway?

It feels like a sort of Earendil-theme to me. Maybe even an extension of
the formulaic greeting: "Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo" (a star shines on
the hour of our meeting). With the shining jewel playing the role of the
star, and extending it from a greeting to a farewell: "a star shines on
the hour of our parting". [I wonder what that is in Elvish?]

Though there are probably many story-external parallels as well, from
other cultures. Though I don't know of any offhand.

We see a link between Galadriel's ring and the light of Earendil's star
in a previous chapter (though not to do with farewells):

"She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East
in a gesture of rejection and denial. Earendil, the Evening Star, most
beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the
figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays
glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold
overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the
Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand." (The Mirror of
Galadriel)

And then there is a final glimmer of farewell in just a few chapters
from now: "...slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore glimmered and
was lost." (The Grey Havens)

<tearful sniff>

All these farewells get to me too. This is my favorite chapter in the
whole book. So many wonderful quotes. But among the oft-quoted passages,
there are some that are not so often mentioned. Of these, my favorite is
Eomer's courteous words to Merry:

"Kings of old would have laden you with gifts that a wain could not bear
for your deeds upon the fields of Mundburg; and yet you will take
naught, you say, but the arms that were given to you. This I suffer, for
indeed I have no gift that is worthy; but my sister begs you to receive
this small thing, as a memorial of Dernhelm and of the horns of the Mark
at the coming of the morning." (Many Partings)

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

Troels Forchhammer

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Apr 5, 2005, 3:36:19 AM4/5/05
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In message <slrnd531tg.5vc....@ministry.of.silly.walks>,
AC <mightym...@hotmail.com> enriched us with:

Letter #246 (I nearly said 'of course' <G>) which has been posted in its
entirety earlier[1]. The most relevant passage is probably this:

" He appears at first to have had no sense of guilt (III
224-5)[1]; he was restored to /sanity/ and peace. But then
he thought that he had given his life in sacrifice: he
expected to die very soon. But he did not, and one can
observe the disquiet growing in him. Arwen was the first to
observe the signs, and gave him her jewel for comfort, and
thought of a way of healing him[*]."

[*] "It is not made explicit how she could arrange this. She
could not of course just transfer her ticket on the boat like
that! For any except those of Elvish race 'sailing West' was
not permitted, and any exception required 'authority', and
she was not in direct communication with the Valar,
especially not since her choice to become 'mortal'. What is
meant is that it was Arwen who first thought of sending Frodo
into the West, and put in a plea for him to Gandalf (direct
or through Galadriel, or both), and she used her own
renunciation of the right to go West as an argument. Her
renunciation and suffering were related to and enmeshed with
Frodo's : both were parts of a plan for the regeneration of
the state of Men. Her prayer might therefore be specially
effective, and her plan have a certain equity of exchange. No
doubt it was Gandalf who was the authority that accepted her
plea. The Appendices show clearly that he was an emissary of
the Valar, and virtually their plenipotentiary in
accomplishing the plan against Sauron. He was also in special
accord with Cirdan the Ship-master, who had surrendered to
him his ring and so placed himself under Gandalf's command.
Since Gandalf himself went on the Ship there would be so to
speak no trouble either at embarking or at the landing."
[246 From a letter to Mrs Eileen Elgar (drafts) September 1963]

[1] Google URL's:
<http://google.ca/groups?selm=ul2kb61...@corp.supernews.com>
<http://google.vg/groups?selm=LgaHb.66282$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net
.au>
<http://tinyurl.com/2uz3f>

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is t.forch(a)email.dk

Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick
to anger.
- Gildor Inglorion, 'LotR' (J.R.R. Tolkien)


aelfwina

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Apr 6, 2005, 11:09:15 AM4/6/05
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"Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Qni4e.4040$G8....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> All these farewells get to me too. This is my favorite chapter in the
> whole book. So many wonderful quotes. But among the oft-quoted passages,
> there are some that are not so often mentioned. Of these, my favorite is
> Eomer's courteous words to Merry:
>
> "Kings of old would have laden you with gifts that a wain could not bear
> for your deeds upon the fields of Mundburg; and yet you will take
> naught, you say, but the arms that were given to you. This I suffer, for
> indeed I have no gift that is worthy; but my sister begs you to receive
> this small thing, as a memorial of Dernhelm and of the horns of the Mark
> at the coming of the morning." (Many Partings)

I know. I love this part, too. It shows so clearly Eomer's pride and
affection for his small knight. I like to imagine that Eomer later
sneakily sent gifts after Merry, that he could not turn down once they
arrived at the Bridge. (And that Aragorn did the same for Pippin.) But I
could understand Merry's reasons for doing so. He loved Theoden so much,
any reward for his deed would have felt to him like a diminishment of that
love.
Barbara

Glenn Holliday

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Apr 5, 2005, 6:53:29 PM4/5/05
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"Michelle J. Haines" wrote:
>
> Both Arwen and Elrond seem fairly confident that the Hobbits will be
> accepted if they travel West on the ships. How the heck do they know
> this?

In addition to having Gandalf as an ambassador and expert
consultant, Elrond is great among the Wise in his own right.
He also knows something from his father about who can travel West.

--
Glenn Holliday holl...@acm.org

Christopher Kreuzer

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Apr 6, 2005, 3:12:17 PM4/6/05
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Really? Elrond saw Earendil _how_ many times after Earendil went to the
halls of Valimar and "never again set foot upon the lands of Men"?

One of the Kings of Numenor said: "And does not Earendil, my forefather,
live? Or is he not in the land of Aman?"

And the answer was: "You know that he has a fate apart, and was adjudged
to the Firstborn who die not; yet this also is his doom that he can
never return again to mortal lands."

I've always wondered just _who_ delivered the decree of the Elder King
("to Earendil and to Elwing, and to their sons, shall be given leave
each to choose freely to which kindred their fates shall be joined, and
under which kindred they shall be judged") to Elrond and Elros?

One likely possibility is that Eonwe, the herald of Manwe, as the only
named person who went with the hosts of the Wests to the War of Wrath,
brought news of this decree to Middle-earth. He it was, after all, who,
after the War of Wrath, summoned the Elves of Beleriand to depart.
Indeed, the sentences telling us of the choices of Elros and Elrond
appear soon after that part of the final chapter of /Quenta
Silmarillion/.

But maybe Earendil himself delivered the news to his sons? He did fight
in the War of Wrath, though arriving a bit late, and maybe he was
allowed to 'hover' over "the lands of Men" while telling his sons what
had happened, and why he and their mother weren't coming back? :-)

Dirk Thierbach

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Apr 22, 2005, 6:17:10 AM4/22/05
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Christopher Kreuzer <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> It feels like a sort of Earendil-theme to me. Maybe even an extension of
> the formulaic greeting: "Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo" (a star shines on
> the hour of our meeting). With the shining jewel playing the role of the
> star, and extending it from a greeting to a farewell: "a star shines on
> the hour of our parting". [I wonder what that is in Elvish?]

My Quenya is not very good, but I can give it a try:

I don't know any specific noun for "parting", but there is the verb
/auta-/ "go away, leave". Now, one can try to construct the active
participle and use it as a noun, as in the english expression. The
regular participle would be "autala". However, "auta-" seems to have
some "strong" forms, so I am not sure if it is correct here. Adding
the declension suffix /-lmo/ "of our" gives "Elen síla lúmenna
autalalmo" in long form (the vowel length is important, don't leave
that out), which again would be shortened to "Elen síla lúmenn' autalalmo"
as the vowel at the beginning of the word mutes the last vowel
of the preceding word.

Please feel free to correct my mistakes :-)

- Dirk

Troels Forchhammer

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May 9, 2005, 3:36:33 AM5/9/05
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In message <2005042210171...@dthierbach.news.arcor.de>,
Dirk Thierbach <dthie...@usenet.arcornews.de> enriched us with:
>

<snip>

> My Quenya is not very good, but I can give it a try:

Neither is mine, to tell the truth, but I had one thought:

> I don't know any specific noun for "parting", but there is the verb
> /auta-/ "go away, leave".

I wonder if one can, in Quenya as in English, make a noun of the
exclamation. In that case we might use Namárië, which, incidentally, has
the same ending as omentië so that it should be easy to create the
phrase "Elen síla lúmenn' namárielvo!" -- "A star shines on the hour of
our farewell!"

> Adding the declension suffix /-lmo/ "of our"

I think that ought to be /-lva/ (or possibly /-lvo/[*]). The -lmo/-lma
versions are, according to Ardalambion, exclusive (i.e. that the 'our'
doesn't include the person adressed: what Frodo should have used had he
spoken to Gildor of his meeting with someone else).

[*] I'm not entirely sure about the -a vs. -o versions here -- Helge
Fauskanger doesn't include the 'o' versions in his article about Quenya:
<http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/quenya.htm>, though they are cited in
his Quenya course (<http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/less-c.rtf> -- lesson
11) and in the corpus analysis. I can't see that there should be any
real difference between the two versions.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is t.forch(a)email.dk

++?????++ Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start.
- (Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times)

Dirk Thierbach

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May 9, 2005, 7:47:30 AM5/9/05
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Troels Forchhammer <Tro...@thisisfake.invalid> wrote:
> Dirk Thierbach <dthie...@usenet.arcornews.de> enriched us with:

>> My Quenya is not very good, but I can give it a try:


> Neither is mine, to tell the truth, but I had one thought:

>> I don't know any specific noun for "parting", but there is the verb
>> /auta-/ "go away, leave".

> I wonder if one can, in Quenya as in English, make a noun of the
> exclamation.

Is that possible at all? The imperative form is often, especially in
English, where most endings have faded anyway, very similar to the
infinitive. Sometimes it's possible to use the infinitive as a noun.
In German the difference is still visible: For example "rennen" (to
run), "renn!" (run!), "das Rennen" (the "run", the race). I don't know
if there is any explicit rule when it is possible to use the
infinitive as a noun. Some examples seem to work in German ("das
Singen", "das Gehen"), but look strange in English ("the sing", "the
go"). Can any native speakers comment?

> In that case we might use Namárië, which, incidentally, has
> the same ending as omentië

I am not sure how this word is made up, in the first place. A quick
search finds: A note in WotJ "o-mentie (meeting or junction of the
directions of two people)", with prefix /o-/ "used in words describing
the meeting, junction, or union of two things or persons". ETYM has
*men "place, spot", and /tië/ "path, course, line, direction, way".
Also, -ië seems to be a more common noun ending, there are many other
examples of it.

It can also be a perfect form of a verb, but not the imperative:
That seems to include a particle /a/ ("a laita te"), which is sometimes
placed after the stem (/heca!/ "stand aside!").

So /namárië/ seems to be proper noun, not an infitive or
imperative form of a verb. The translation "farewell" is very probably
not literal. I have no idea what namárië is derived from; maybe
knowing that would help.

> so that it should be easy to create the phrase "Elen síla
> lúmenn' namárielvo!" -- "A star shines on the hour of our
> farewell!"

If /namárie/ is indeed just a proper noun, then that is certainly
also possible, and maybe better than my attempt.

>> Adding the declension suffix /-lmo/ "of our"

> I think that ought to be /-lva/ (or possibly /-lvo/[*]). The -lmo/-lma

> versions are, according to Ardalambion, exclusive.

That's the revised form, yes. The First Edition had still /-lmo/
for inclusive. Should have paid better attention when writing it. Sorry.
IIRC the whole thing created some discussion, including some theories
that Frodo didn't speak Quenya perfectly, and just made a mistake.
I guess Ardalambion follows the most recent theory :-)

- Dirk

TT Arvind

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May 10, 2005, 7:44:07 PM5/10/05
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Wes ðu Dirk Thierbach hal!

> So /namárië/ seems to be proper noun, not an infitive or
> imperative form of a verb. The translation "farewell" is very probably
> not literal. I have no idea what namárië is derived from; maybe
> knowing that would help.

'márië' is used in "Firiel's Song" and translated as "It is good",
derived from 'mára', meaning "good". I don't know if this meaning is
valid for LoTR Quenya, however. A meaning of "goodness" or "well-
being" would fit well with the context of 'namárië', and '-ië' seems to
be commonish in abstract nouns in Quenya. I suppose "na" could be the
imperative form of "to be", which would give the word the meaning of "be
well", which is close to the meaning of "farewell".

Of course, it's been very long since I mucked around with Quenya so I
could be totally off base here.

--
Arvind

If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word
you say, talk in your sleep.

Dirk Thierbach

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May 11, 2005, 5:54:05 AM5/11/05
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TT Arvind <ttar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wes šu Dirk Thierbach hal!
>> So /namįriė/ seems to be proper noun, not an infitive or

>> imperative form of a verb. The translation "farewell" is very probably
>> not literal. I have no idea what namįriė is derived from; maybe
>> knowing that would help.

> 'mįriė' is used in "Firiel's Song" and translated as "It is good",
> derived from 'mįra', meaning "good". I don't know if this meaning is

> valid for LoTR Quenya, however. A meaning of "goodness" or "well-

> being" would fit well with the context of 'namįriė', and '-iė' seems to

> be commonish in abstract nouns in Quenya. I suppose "na" could be the
> imperative form of "to be", which would give the word the meaning of "be
> well", which is close to the meaning of "farewell".

There is the particle /nai/, which according to RGEO "expresses rather
a wish than a hope". I am not sure if this is related to "to be" in any
way. So /namįriė/ would be "wishing well-being", which would fit.

> Of course, it's been very long since I mucked around with Quenya so I
> could be totally off base here.

I am definitely no expert either, but that looks like a good explanation.

- Dirk

Dirk Thierbach

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May 11, 2005, 8:47:04 AM5/11/05
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[Superseded; corrected relation of "nai" and "to be"]

TT Arvind <ttar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wes ðu Dirk Thierbach hal!
>> So /namárië/ seems to be proper noun, not an infitive or
>> imperative form of a verb. The translation "farewell" is very probably
>> not literal. I have no idea what namárië is derived from; maybe
>> knowing that would help.

> 'márië' is used in "Firiel's Song" and translated as "It is good",
> derived from 'mára', meaning "good". I don't know if this meaning is
> valid for LoTR Quenya, however. A meaning of "goodness" or "well-
> being" would fit well with the context of 'namárië', and '-ië' seems to
> be commonish in abstract nouns in Quenya. I suppose "na" could be the
> imperative form of "to be", which would give the word the meaning of "be
> well", which is close to the meaning of "farewell".

There is the particle /nai/, which according to RGEO "expresses rather
a wish than a hope". It is very probably related to "to be". /ná/ itself
is used as copula "is". I don't know what the imperative of "to be"
is, because it's probably very irregular. There is an imperative particle
/â/, which is used for normal verbs. There is also /eä!/ "Let these things
Be!" from the SIL.

So assuming that the prefix /na-/ comes from /nai/, /namárië/
would mean "wishing well-being", which seems to fit.

> Of course, it's been very long since I mucked around with Quenya so I
> could be totally off base here.

I am definitely no expert either, but that looks like a good explanation.

- Dirk

Morgoth's Curse

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May 24, 2005, 1:27:13 AM5/24/05
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Where is David Salo when we need him? :) Somebody should ping him and
inform him that he renounces his claim to be a Tolkien fan if he dared
to deny us aid in our of need. ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

the softrat

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May 24, 2005, 9:36:59 PM5/24/05
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 05:27:13 GMT, Morgoth's Curse
<morgoths...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Where is David Salo when we need him? :) Somebody should ping him and
>(snipped)

>to deny us aid in our of need. ;-)
>
>Morgoth's Curse

Oh, Mr.Curse!

Learn to:


====> **** SNIP ****


Thank you.


the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Turn on, log in, fight spam.

Morgoth's Curse

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Aug 30, 2005, 2:33:06 AM8/30/05
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 18:36:59 -0700, the softrat <sof...@pobox.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 24 May 2005 05:27:13 GMT, Morgoth's Curse
><morgoths...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Where is David Salo when we need him? :) Somebody should ping him and
>>(snipped)
>>to deny us aid in our of need. ;-)
>>
>>Morgoth's Curse
>
>Oh, Mr.Curse!
>
> Learn to:
>
>
> ====> **** SNIP ****
>
>
>Thank you.

I am quite familiar with the custom of snipping, you dim-witted rat. I
left the original post intact in order to demonstrate the chaos that
occurs when our linguistic experts disappear.

Morgoth's Curse

the softrat

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Aug 30, 2005, 4:47:52 AM8/30/05
to
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:33:06 GMT, Morgoth's Curse
<morgoths...@nospamyahoo.com wrote:

>I am quite familiar with the custom of snipping, you dim-witted rat.

It rather looked like you had forgot.
the softrat
Sometimes I get so tired of the taste of my own toes.
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Software isn't released. It's allowed to escape.

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