Longest sentences in Tolkien
Christopher Kreuzer
longest sentence in LotR is this one:
"But Saruman had slowly shaped it to his shifting purposes, and made it
better, as he thought, being deceived - for all those arts and subtle
devices, for which he forsook his former wisdom, and which fondly he
imagined were his own, came but from Mordor; so that what he made was
naught, only a little copy, a child's model or a slave's flattery, of
that vast fortress, armoury, prison, furnace of great power, Barad-dur,
the Dark Tower, which suffered no rival, and laughed at flattery, biding
its time, secure in its pride and its immeasurable strength." (The Road
to Isengard, 96 words)
But I recently discovered 6 sentences in 'The Silmarillion' (by which I
mean all parts of that book) that are of similar lengths, and some that
are even longer! (Don't get too excited.)
I was going to give the sentences and the word counts, but then I
thought it would be fun to just give the word counts and see if people
can identify the sentences (think "long, wordy" bits of the book).
In order in the book ('The Silmarillion'):
1) 81 words.
2) 98 words.
3) 111 words.
4) 93 words.
5) 89 words.
6) 82 words.
Possibly it may help to be told that two of these sentences are next to
each other. Also, there are probably many sentences with between 80 and
90 words (found one of them while writing this post), but probably not
many over 90 words.
There is also a serious point to this - namely the rhythm and style
inherent in such long sentences, but first, can anyone identify the
sentences?
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Stan Brown
>There is also a serious point to this - namely the rhythm and style
>inherent in such long sentences, but first, can anyone identify the
>sentences?
I've read Gibbon's /The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire/
several times for pleasure, so Tolkien's sentences seem to be on
the short side to me. :-)
And now you know why my own sentences are so ridiculously long. I
try to remember that almost every sentence I write, anyway unless
I'm thinking carefully about it, needs to be revised after I've
finished; and usually that revision involves breaking it into two
sentences, possibly even more than two. (Okay, I did that one on
purpose. :-)
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
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Sean
> For some reason I've always been fascinated by the speculation that the
> longest sentence in LotR is this one:
Surely the longest sentence (either explicit or implied) would be
a statement from an Ent, especially one of the less hasty ones.
For instance, the Entish version of "Jack and Jill went up the hill"
would include the complete pedigree of Jack and Jill's remote ancestry
as well as comprehensive geological details and surface morphology
of the hill including the type of forest cover (temperate deciduous)
and the personal histories of each tree inhabiting it.
Sean
Thomas Koenig
>Surely the longest sentence (either explicit or implied) would be
>a statement from an Ent, especially one of the less hasty ones.
There's a German novel (I forget its title) which is entirely
one sentence. Its (main) verb is right at the end of the
novel/sentence, which is an automatic page turner to the first
page :-)
Mark Twain had something to say on that subject, too.
Christopher Kreuzer
> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>
>> For some reason I've always been fascinated by the speculation that
>> the longest sentence in LotR is this one:
>
> Surely the longest sentence (either explicit or implied) would be
> a statement from an Ent, especially one of the less hasty ones.
Sorry. Only ones as published in LotR and Silmarillion are allowed. I'll
leave it a bit longer and then post the sentences.
Atalante
> thought it would be fun to just give the word counts and see if people
> can identify the sentences (think "long, wordy" bits of the book).
Hmmm I wonder if one or two are from the Ainulindale ... *goes off to look*
Prai Jei
<d2m3r1$4mt$1...@meiner.onlinehome.de>:
<quote>
The proverbial German phenomenon of the "verb-at-the-end", about which droll
tales of absentminded professors who would begin a sentence, ramble on for
an entire lecture, and then finish up by rattling off a string of verbs by
which their audience, for whom the stack had long since lost its coherence,
would be totally nonplussed, are told, is an excellent example of
linguistic pushing and popping. The confusion among the audience that
out-of-order popping from the stack onto which the professor's verbs have
been pushed, is amusing to imagine, could engender.
</quote>
Dougles R. Hofstadter (he of the seventeen clams), "Gödel, Escher, Bach"
--
Paul Townsend
Pair them off into threes
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Robert J. Kolker
> For instance, the Entish version of "Jack and Jill went up the hill"
Jack and Jill went up the hill,
they each had a buck and a quarter.
When they came down, Jill had two fifty,
they did not go up for water.
Bob Kolker
Christopher Kreuzer
Hmm. Thought I'd looked there. I missed an 88-worder:
"Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeavoured ever, in
despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of
the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys
they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor
threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught
might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar
began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it." (Ainulindale, 88
words)
Which is a classic example of Tolkien's longest sentences, which tend to
be long descriptive lists, whether of events or something else. They
also tend to occur at the _end_ of a story or chapter. A pent-up release
of purple prose. They are also often poetic in the sense that they are
rhythmic (as described in a paper by Gergely Nagy - The Adapted Text:
The Lost Poetry of Beleriand; Tolkien Studies, Volume 1)
The trouble is that Tolkien often joins clauses that could be separate
sentences by using the semi-colon (which can be used instead of a comma
for a list, or if the clauses are less closely related than those
separated by a comma). And sometimes he doesn't, instead using a period
followed by a new sentence starting "And".
a) "... ; and..."
b) "... . And..."
If you see what I mean. The word 'but' is often used the same way. This
means that certain long descriptive passages could have been written as
a single sentence, but were split up instead. And others were conjoined,
which slightly increases the emphasis on the rhythmic flow when compared
to a series of separate sentences.
The opening chapter of Quenta Silmarillion (Of the Beginning of Days)
also has some hefty descriptive passages:
"In that guarded land the Valar gathered great store of light and all
the fairest things that were saved from the ruin; and many others yet
fairer they made anew, and Valinor became more beautiful even than
Middle-earth in the Spring of Arda; and it was blessed, for the
Deathless dwelt there, and there naught faded nor withered, neither was
there any stain upon flower or leaf in that land, nor any corruption or
sickness in anything that lived; for the very stones and waters were
hallowed." (Of the Beginning of Days, 87 words)
Some of the descriptions of the Valar later in the chapter are also
drawn out in a single sentence. Aule and Yavanna get one sentence:
"Of him comes the lore and knowledge of the Earth and of all things that
it contains: whether the lore of those that make not, but seek only for
the understanding of what is, or the lore of all craftsmen: the weaver,
the shaper of wood, and the worker in metals; and the tiller and
husbandman also, though these last and all that deal with things that
grow and bear fruit must look also to the spouse of Aule, Yavanna
Kementari." (Of the Beginning of Days, 81 words)
A good example of a climactic sentence in Tolkien is this one:
"In that moment Huan leaped from the thicket upon the back of the Wolf,
and they fell together fighting bitterly; and no battle of wolf and
hound has been like to it, for in the baying of Huan was heard the voice
of the horns of Orome and the wrath of the Valar, but in the howls of
Carcharoth was the hate of Morgoth and malice crueller than teeth of
steel; and the rocks were rent by their clamour and fell from on high
and choked the falls of Esgalduin." (Of Beren and Luthien, 90 words)
Returning to the 6 sentences that I proffered in the original post:
1) 81 words.
"In those unhappy things which later came to pass, and in which Feanor
was the leader, many saw the effect of this breach within the house of
Finwe, judging that if Finwe had endured his loss and been content with
the fathering of his mighty son, the courses of Feanor would have been
otherwise, and great evil might have been prevented; for the sorrow and
the strife in the house of Finwe is graven in the memory of the Noldorin
Elves." (Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor, 81 words)
This one is actually a bit boring, and doesn't fit the model above.
2) 98 words.
This one is a climactic and very dramatic sentence.
3) 111 words.
This is another dramatic moment, in list form.
4) 93 words.
This one is another climax.
5) 89 words.
6) 82 words.
And these two, together, end a story.
That should be enough clues!
Sean
> Jack and Jill went up the hill,
> they each had a buck and a quarter.
> When they came down, Jill had two fifty,
> they did not go up for water.
Following which:
* Jack went into forestry while Jill signed up for horticulture,
both with Elvish instructors who also taught them basic literacy
* They lost each other's forwarding address and were out of contact
for 6000 years
* Jill was sighted in the Northfarthing in SR 1401 by Halfred Gamgee
who mistook her for a walking elm tree (a perfectly natural mistake
in those times)
* Jack, after winning battle honors in Westfold, began searching
for Jill in new lands that had been opened. Barliman had to open
the skylight in the Common Room to create more headroom when he
came in for a draught of ale
Sean
Jette Goldie
"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:3b6huqF6...@individual.net...
> "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
> >There is also a serious point to this - namely the rhythm and style
> >inherent in such long sentences, but first, can anyone identify the
> >sentences?
>
> I've read Gibbon's /The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire/
> several times for pleasure, so Tolkien's sentences seem to be on
> the short side to me. :-)
>
I read legal deeds every day. Doesn't matter how many pages
long they are, a legal deed is ONE sentence long - no periods
or full stops till the deed is done.
So yes, Tolkien is quite abrupt to me ;-)
--
Jette Goldie
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
INTERACTION - the 63rd Worldcon
"A European Worldcon in Glasgow"
http://interaction.worldcon.org.uk/
Robert J. Kolker
>
> So yes, Tolkien is quite abrupt to me ;-)
Or hasty, as Treebeard would say.
Bob Kolker
>
>
Leon Trollski
>
> I've read Gibbon's /The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire/
> several times for pleasure,
Some folks are so strange.
Atalante
> 6) 82 words.
Thats the Akallabeth, isn't it?
Christopher Kreuzer
Yes. Two very long, but beautiful sentences, finish the tale.
I'll give them, and the other ones, in a reply to my other post.
Christopher Kreuzer
<snip>
I probably haven't left it long enough, or this is, um, slightly less
interesting than I thought it might be... <mentally crosses this
question off the list for a future quiz>. Anyway, here are those
looooong sentences taken from 'The Silmarillion', or at least the ones I
haven't quoted already.
> 2) 98 words.
Oops! I miscounted!
> This one is a climactic and very dramatic sentence.
"They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by the
name even of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if they
kept it not; and Manwe they named in witness, and Varda, and the
hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and
hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn,
or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring
forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril
from their possession." (Of the Flight of the Noldor, 95 words)
[Does that sound like a legal deed, Jette?]
> 3) 111 words.
>
> This is another dramatic moment, in list form.
I'm holding off on this one until the end of the post. It is after all,
the longest sentence yet found, so a bit of suspense won't go amiss...
Hmm. Changed my mind. The last two were a better way to end the post, so
here it is... <drum roll> ...one of the longest (and maybe _the_
longest) sentences in Tolkien:
<SPOILER SPACE - last opportunity to consider what it might be>
<not thought of anything yet?>
<OK, here you go>
"And the wise have said that it was by reason of the power of that holy
jewel that they came in time to waters that no vessels save those of the
Teleri had known; and they came to the Enchanted Isles and escaped their
enchantment; and they came into the Shadowy Seas and passed their
shadows, and they looked upon Tol Eressea the Lonely Isle, but tarried
not; and at the last they cast anchor in the Bay of Eldamar, and the
Teleri saw the coming of that ship out of the East and they were amazed,
gazing from afar upon the light of the Silmaril, and it was very great."
(Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath, 111 words)
Which seems fitting for one of the major climaxes of the story. The
sentence covers most of the voyage of Earendil, and is an excellent
example of a masterfully compressed storyline. It is mostly a list of
what happened, but like other long sentences elsewhere, it starts by
invoking voices of lore ("And the wise have said"). It also allows the
story to move swiftly on to the important events that took place once
they arrived.
[Bilbo's poem about the voyage of Earendil (in the 'Many Meetings'
chapter of LotR) is likewise a very long piece of writing.]
> 4) 93 words.
>
> This one is another climax.
"Then suddenly fire burst from the Meneltarma, and there came a mighty
wind and a tumult of the earth, and the sky reeled, and the hills slid,
and Numenor went down into the sea, with all its children and its wives
and its maidens and its ladies proud; and all its gardens and its halls
and its towers, its tombs and its riches, and its jewels and its webs
and its things painted and carven, and its laughter and its mirth and
its music, its wisdom and its lore: they vanished for ever."
(Akallabeth, 93 words)
[List-erama ahoy! 23 things listed there.]
> 5) 89 words.
> 6) 82 words.
>
> And these two, together, end a story.
Taken together:
"And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and
the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a mighty
bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight
(which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which
flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressea, the Lonely
Isle, and maybe even beyond, to Valinor, where the Valar still dwell and
watch the unfolding of the story of the world. And tales and rumours
arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn
upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had
entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink
below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallone, or verily
to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the
White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died." (Akallabeth,
89 words and 82 words)
Not only is this a rare example of Tolkien using parentheses (near the
start of the first sentence), but it is a lovely example of how two
long, flowing sentences can impart an atmosphere to a piece of writing.
Particularly when invoking those voices of lore: "And they taught that";
"tales and rumours arose" - these phrases are the warning that a long
ramble is imminent! Try reading this passage out aloud, or listen to it
being read out aloud, and you get a very real impression of time
passing, and a building climax throughout the sentence, until the final
impact of the last words.
I think the impact is even greater when two such sentences are placed
together, as here. The effect surpasses that of the longest sentence
given above. And the writing is also, of course, quite heart-breaking.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
"This tale grew in the telling, until it became a history of the Great
War of the Ring..." - J.R.R. Tolkien (Foreward to LotR)
Shanahan
> Sean <no....@no.spam> wrote:
>> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>>
>>> For some reason I've always been fascinated by the speculation that
>>> the longest sentence in LotR is this one:
>>
>> Surely the longest sentence (either explicit or implied) would be
>> a statement from an Ent, especially one of the less hasty ones.
>
> Sorry. Only ones as published in LotR and Silmarillion are allowed.
> I'll leave it a bit longer and then post the sentences.
Are we allowed to look at the books? I don't have Silm. memorized
nearly as much as I do LotR.
Ciaran S.
--
'Y'know, that's a really nice coat you've got there.' - marv
nand...@transact.bm
Surely the longest sentence is the three ages Melkor had to be chained
up in Mandos? Although Feanor dwelling there from the time of his
death until the end of Arda may also be a contender.
Neil Anderson
Jette Goldie
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
> "They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by
the
> name even of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if
they
> kept it not; and Manwe they named in witness, and Varda, and the
> hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and
> hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet
unborn,
> or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should
bring
> forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a
Silmaril
> from their possession." (Of the Flight of the Noldor, 95 words)
>
> [Does that sound like a legal deed, Jette?]
Too short! Needs a few clauses, sub-clauses, colons, semi-colons,
parentheses and commas.
--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Christopher Kreuzer
> Christopher Kreuzer <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> creatively typed:
>> Sean <no....@no.spam> wrote:
>>> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>>>
>>>> For some reason I've always been fascinated by the speculation that
>>>> the longest sentence in LotR is this one:
>>>
>>> Surely the longest sentence (either explicit or implied) would be
>>> a statement from an Ent, especially one of the less hasty ones.
>>
>> Sorry. Only ones as published in LotR and Silmarillion are allowed.
>> I'll leave it a bit longer and then post the sentences.
>
> Are we allowed to look at the books? I don't have Silm. memorized
> nearly as much as I do LotR.
Of course you can look at the books! The trick though is to have a vague
memory in the back of your head (an 'instinct') as to where these long
sentences might be. There are other, more reliable, ways, but they take
all the fun out of it.
Unfortunately though, I've already posted the "answers", which were
really only the long sentences that I've found. If anyone else can be
bothered to look, and finds more senteces, please post it!
Oh, and congratulations to the wit who pointed out that Melkor's
sentence was three Ages long! :-)
TT Arvind
>
> "Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
> > "They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by
> > the name even of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if
> > they kept it not; and Manwe they named in witness, and Varda, and the
> > hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and
> > hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn,
> > or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring
> > forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a
> > Silmaril from their possession." (Of the Flight of the Noldor, 95
> > words)
> >
> > [Does that sound like a legal deed, Jette?]
>
> Too short! Needs a few clauses, sub-clauses, colons, semi-colons,
> parentheses and commas.
KNOW ALL YE to whom these presents may come, that: WHEREAS the Party of
the First Part was in quiet, undisputed, and uninterrupted possession of
the hereindemised Silmarils (which term as used herein shall mean and
refer to the three jewels commonly known by that name; and shall include
any light, radiance, effulgence, luminescence, sparkle, sheen or any
other glow of any description that may emanate, radiate or otherwise
proceed therefrom or be contained therein); AND WHEREAS said undisputed
and uninterrupted possession was pursuant to an allodial title held by
said Party of the First Part in said hereindemised Silmarils, and was
shared with the Parties of the Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth,
Seventh and Eighth Parts (each standing in filial relationship with said
Party of the First Part); AND WHEREAS the aforementioned Parties of the
First to Eighth Parts were disturbed unlawfully from said lawful
enjoyment by the actions of the Party of the Ninth Part (hereinafter
"Ungoliant") and the Party of the Tenth Part, known variously as Melkor,
Morgoth, Bauglir, Dark Lord and His Nibs; AND WHEREAS through the efflux
of subsequent events said Party of the Tenth Part is now in sole
possession of said Silmarils and said unlawful exclusion is still
subsisting;
NOW THESE PRESENTS WITNESS THAT said Party of the First Part
(hereinafter, "Feanor") and said Parties of the Second, Third, Fourth,
Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Parts (hereinafter collectively
referred to as "Sons") HEREBY ASSERT their prior and perfected rights,
titles and interests in law and equity over the said hereindemised
Silmarils (hereinafter, "Asserted Rights") as against the Party of the
Tenth Part and his agents, heirs, successors, personal representatives,
executors, administrators, trustees, servants and assigns; and any and
all other persons claiming or deriving title or possession through said
Party of the Tenth Part (or his agents, heirs, successors, personal
representatives, executors, administrators, trustees, servants and
assigns), or to whom such title or possession may have passed, or who
may otherwise have come to hold, keep or otherwise have one or more of
said Silmarils, whether through lawful or unlawful means (hereinafter,
"Ultimate Possessor");
AND THAT they shall, in exercise of such Asserted Rights (and upon
penalty of Everlasting Dark in the event of breach) pursue, chase,
attack, badger, bedevil, beleaguer and harry such Ultimate Possesor
using all available means, both legal and private (including but not
limited to vengence, hatred, warfare, deceit, lies, treachery,
corruption and marmite) UNLESS such Ultimate Possessor irrevocably and
unconditionally remise, release, settle, quitclaim, compromise and
forever discharge all right, title, interest that said Ultimate
Possessor may claim in said Silmarils (including but not limited to any
right, title or interest claimed to have arisen by way of easement,
adverse possession or other equitable principle) AND make over
possession of said Silmarils to them TO HAVE AND HOLD the same forever
without disturbance or hindrance;
AND KNOW YE ALSO THAT the pledges, oaths, covenants, promises, threats
made by said Feanor and said Sons contained in these presents or
conveyed hereby (hereinafter collectively, "Oath of Feanor") shall apply
to any Ultimate Possessor who may be within the remits of Arda (which
term shall in these presents mean and refer to that part of Ea popularly
known as Arda, whether marred or unmarred, and including without
limitation all organic and inorganic matter present thereon, connected
therewith, or otherwise appurtaining thereto; but excluding customary
rights, easements and easmentary appurtanances not specifically included
therewith herein);
AND THAT that said Oath of Feanor shall apply notwithstanding that said
Ultimate Possessor of said Silmarils be by nature a member of that class
of beings of provenance unknown commonly known as Ainur and popularly
stated to have been created by the entity styling itself Iluvatar
(including without limitation Ainur engaged in their customary
occupation, trade and profession as powers of said world (hereinafter,
"Valar"), and any other Ainur having their primary customary place of
habitation within Ea (hereinafter, "Maiar") or the timeless halls, and
regardless of whether such Ainur are at the relevant in the continued
employment of said Iluvatar), Elves (including all Noldor, Vanyar,
Teleri, Avari, Sindar, and all grey, white, brown, yellow, purple and
crimson elves, and any other entity described by that name or any
synonym thereof in any draft of HoME), Men (by which is meant the
projected race designated as "Men" in notes C.A57621.001X - C.
D32133.233W of the Eaean Music (Iluv. Op. No. 1)), or any other beings,
whether self-created, created by said Iluvatar or any other entity, or
of provenance unknown, that may exist between now and such time when
said Arda shall, whether by design of said Iluvatar or otherwise, cease
to exist (hereinafter, "End of Days", which term shall not include any
fault, failure, flaw, breakdown, interruption or other partial or total
malfunction or functional impairment of said Arda that is not recognised
by said Feanor as constituting a valid End of Days, such determination
to be made by said Feanor at his total discretion);
IN WITNESS WHEREOF we name: Manwe, known also as Sulimo, Elder King,
Lord of the West, and Da Boss; Taniquetil, known also as Oilosse (which
names as used herein refer to all and parcel of the mountain commonly
known by those names located in the Pelori and raised in the year 3,450
VYVA reckoning); and Varda, known also as Elbereth, Gilthoniel,
Tintalle, Myrtle, Hortence, Sophronia, and Maud.
--
Arvind
Christopher Kreuzer
> Wes đu Jette Goldie hal!
>>
>> "Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
>>> "They swore an oath which none shall break... <snip>" (Of the
>>> Flight of the Noldor, 95 words)
>>>
>>> [Does that sound like a legal deed, Jette?]
>>
>> Too short! Needs a few clauses, sub-clauses, colons, semi-colons,
>> parentheses and commas.
>
> KNOW ALL YE
<snniiiiiiiiiiiip>
ROTFL!
That was hilarious! And most impressive!
Not that I understood all of it...
"allodial title"??
"using all available means...including...marmite"
LOL!
"easmentary appurtanances"??
"all grey, white, brown, yellow, purple and crimson elves"
LOL!
"the projected race designated as "Men" in notes C.A57621.001X - C.
D32133.233W of the Eaean Music (Iluv. Op. No. 1)"
LOL!
"year 3,450 VYVA reckoning"??
Valarin Year, something?
Derek Broughton
>> Too short! Needs a few clauses, sub-clauses, colons, semi-colons,
>> parentheses and commas.
>
> KNOW ALL YE to whom these presents may come, that: WHEREAS the Party of
Marmite! What a waste (though there are some that would consider it cruel
and inhumane (inValaric?)).
--
derek
TT Arvind
> That was hilarious! And most impressive!
<bows> Thank you. It's nice to know you liked it.
> "allodial title"??
Absolute ownership of real property. In English law, it usually vests
in the King. The Silmarils aren't real property, but I was trying to
write deed-style.
> "easmentary appurtanances"??
More commonly, "appurtenances" - all easementary rights which are not
part of the land, but pass along with it. For example, a right of way
over adjoining land.
> "year 3,450 VYVA reckoning"??
>
> Valarin Year, something?
Valarin Years after Valarin Arrival.
--
Arvind
Weiner's Law of Libraries: There are no answers, only cross-references.
Stan Brown
>Wes ðu Christopher Kreuzer hal!
>> "allodial title"??
>
>Absolute ownership of real property. In English law, it usually vests
>in the King. The Silmarils aren't real property, but I was trying to
>write deed-style.
You might enjoy the book /Execting Someone Taller/ by Tom Holt.
It's about a mortal who finds that _other_ Ring :-) and has Wotan
and Alberich and the Rhinemaidens and everybody else trying to get
it from him. There's a chapter where Erda(*) tries to trace who
legally owns it after the Rhinemaidens took it from the ashes.
Quite hilarious -- and after all the legal theorizing she comes to
the same answer that's already been established for other reasons.
(I don't want to spoil it for you.)
(*) Not a green-faced torso in this version. :-)
Jette Goldie
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
> Not that I understood all of it...
>
> "allodial title"??
>
form of land law used in Zetland and Orkney until
recently.
Jette Goldie
"TT Arvind" <ttar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cbfb2d9...@news.individual.net...
Now THAT'S more like it!!
:-)
Stan Brown
[170+ lines of quote, and then: ]
>Now THAT'S more like it!!
>
>
>:-)
Please be kind and remember to trim your quotes. It's very
fatiguing to scroll through EIGHT SCREENS of old stuff to reach a
one-line comment.
(If I were feeling more curmudgeonly, I might even write "a vacuous
one-line comment", but too many of my own comments might be
attacked on grounds of vacuity. :-)
Derek Broughton
> "TT Arvind" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>>Wes ğu Christopher Kreuzer hal!
>>> "allodial title"??
>>
>>Absolute ownership of real property. In English law, it usually vests
>>in the King. The Silmarils aren't real property, but I was trying to
>>write deed-style.
>
> You might enjoy the book /Execting Someone Taller/ by Tom Holt.
I tried that on the recommendation of somebody here. I'm afraid I didn't
find it very entertaining at all. For someone who enjoys juvenile fiction,
I still found it too juvenile.
--
derek
Jette Goldie
> "Jette Goldie" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>
> [170+ lines of quote, and then: ]
>
> >Now THAT'S more like it!!
> >
> >
> >:-)
>
>
> Please be kind and remember to trim your quotes. It's very
> fatiguing to scroll through EIGHT SCREENS of old stuff to reach a
> one-line comment.
>
I'm sorry, Stan, but you do NOT cut artistry like that.
Stan Brown
>
>"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>news:3bvu09F...@individual.net...
>> "Jette Goldie" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>>
>> [170+ lines of quote, and then: ]
>>
>> >Now THAT'S more like it!!
>> >
>> >
>> >:-)
>>
>>
>> Please be kind and remember to trim your quotes. It's very
>> fatiguing to scroll through EIGHT SCREENS of old stuff to reach a
>> one-line comment.
>>
>
>
>I'm sorry, Stan, but you do NOT cut artistry like that.
No, I do. The problem is that you didn't.
Seriously, when the amount of quoted material greatly outweighs the
amount of new material, it's almost always a bad thing. When the
ratio is 170:1, I don't think there's much room for debate.