Tom Bombadil
R.J. Dartsch
bfge...@wchat.on.ca
Who was Tom Bombadil? If the ring had no power over him and all of
Saurons power came from the ring, could he not have defeated him?
BFG.
Louis Epstein
: Who was Tom Bombadil? If the ring had no power over him and all of
: Saurons power came from the ring, could he not have defeated him?
To use the phrase Aragorn used at the door of the Dead,"None shall ever
know!".
Derek McMillan
>Who was Tom Bombadil? If the ring had no power over him and all of
>Saurons power came from the ring, could he not have defeated him?
>?BFG.
"Not unless such power lies in the very earth itself and have we not
seen that the enemy can torture and destroy the very hills? "
TB has the only power worth having - power over himself. The sort
of power that doesn't corrupt, absolutely or otherwise.
And if you're the same BFG can't you keep your hands off little
Sophie?
R.J. Dartsch
power than Sauron since all of Saurons power comes from the ring.
George
O. Sharp
: Who was Tom Bombadil?
According to JRRT, "even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as
there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)." (_Letters_ #144)
His creation is very successful at being enigmatic, and so there have
been entire threads here from time to time asking who or what the hell
Tom is. For my part, I agree with Ahmed (or whatever Mr. Ryan's been
calling himself lately) and his assertion that Tom is really Isaac
Asimov in disguise. :)
: If the ring had no power over him and all of
: Saurons power came from the ring, could he not have defeated him?
Actually, this question gets answered in the same place that the "ring
had no power over him" quote comes from. From the Council of Elrond
(_Fellowship_, pp. 278-9 hardback):
"'Could we not still send messages to [Bombadil] and obtain his help?'
asked Erestor. 'It seems that he has a power even over the Ring.'
"'No, I should not put it so,' said Gandalf. 'Say rather that the Ring
has no power over him. He is his own master. But he cannot alter the Ring
himself, nor break its power over others....'
"...'But in any case,' said Glorfindel, 'to send the Ring to him would
only postpone the day of evil. ...soon or late the Lord of the Rings
would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it.
Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that
in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was
First; and then Night will come.'
"'I know little of Iarwain [e.g., Bombadil] save the name,' said
Galdor; 'but Glorfindel, I think, is right. Power to defy our Enemy is
not in him...'"
There you have it: two out of two Elves say no. Put Sauron and Bombadil
together, and in no time at all you've got Cream of Bombadillo Soup.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
o...@netcom.com Add some onions and green peppers, get a good
design for the can-label, and I think we've got a
marketable product here. :)
Louis Epstein
: Since the ring has no power over him does it not stand that Tom has more
Should have picked this up before,it is NOT true that "all of Sauron's
power comes from the ring"...most of Sauron's power was invested in the
Ring so as to control the entire Ring-of-power system,but he was the author
of this...most of ITS power came from him...
Michael L. Greene
>There you have it: two out of two Elves say no. Put Sauron and Bombadil
>together, and in no time at all you've got Cream of Bombadillo Soup.
I'm not convinced that you'd get "cream of Bombadillo Soup"(excellent phrase :)
, but certainly Sauron would eventually get the ring, but I think more like
Bombadil couldn't stop Sauron from destroying everything he loved and then
eventually, with time, Bombadil would "fade" because he just wouldn't want to
stick around in the wastes that Sauron would leave.
Err... I may be prejuduced, though,
-MIke
(bomb...@cc.gatech.edu)
--
Mike Greene | Sits on a hill , Nothing to feel
bomb...@cc.gatech.edu | and greets the silence of a morning yet so still.
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/ | She's not afraid, came here to pray and
/people/home/bombadil/ | taste the beauty of the coming morning rain.
Thingol Greycloak
> Since the ring has no power over him does it not stand that Tom has more
> power than Sauron since all of Saurons power comes from the ring.
Not really...Firstly, Bombadil had a *very* brief contact with the
ring...not enough to produce any effect. Second, Tom was a maiar, thus
the rules for mortals using the ring do not apply in the same manner.
Thirdly, Bombadil's simpleness likely overrode the ring's sway...one must
want power before one can have powerlust....
/\
_ )( _________________________________
(_)///////(**)__________________________________> Thingol Greycloak
)( Thi...@limestone.kosone.com
\/ "Growing conspiracy, Myself is after me,
Frayed ends of sanity, Hear them calling, hear them calling me..."
- Metallica
My opinions are my own, and not necessarily those of my service provider
Sullys Maze
Thingol Greycloak <thi...@limestone.kosone.com> writes:
>On 26 Jun 1995, R.J. Dartsch wrote:
>
>> Since the ring has no power over him does it not stand that Tom has more
>> power than Sauron since all of Saurons power comes from the ring.
>
>Not really...Firstly, Bombadil had a *very* brief contact with the
>ring...not enough to produce any effect. Second, Tom was a maiar, thus
>the rules for mortals using the ring do not apply in the same manner.
>Thirdly, Bombadil's simpleness likely overrode the ring's sway...one must
>want power before one can have powerlust....
I know this has been beaten to death here, but there is no evidence
that Tom was a Maiar. In fact, my interpretation of In The House of
Tom Bombadil combined with readings of the Valaquenta were that Tom
was already residing as a spirit in the world before the Valar and
their Maiar came into the world to 'flesh it out'. That Tom was
here before the first raindrop, or before the Dark Lord entered (I
assumed from the void) - I'm paraphrasing from memory, my books are
130 miles and 3 days away- says to me that Tom was here already
before Manwe and Ulmo teamed up between them to do the rainstorms.
This was the age of the physical embodyment of Ea from the Music of
the Ainur.
Tolkien was pretty explicit in the Valaquenta and elsewhere that the
Valar and Maiar were NOT the definitive roster of spirits in the
world or the void, that they were a powerful subset of spirits that
both participated in the music AND entered into the world.
Tolkien's letters also state that Bombadil was intended to be an
enigma, a force not explainable by the Elvish/Numenorean
understanding of how EA works that is the Valaquenta. If Bombadil
were a Maiar, Tolkien certainly would have said so in his letters
and saved a lot of explanation to curious readers.
Like so:
Who is Bombadil?
Oh, he was a Maiar of Yavanna who was the first Maiar to come into
the world....
much simpler than Tolkien trying to explain that there are things
in the real world as well as his imaginary one that simply don't
seem to fit.
Gandalf was a Maiar, as well as Saruman - powerful ones at that.
The ring had great influence and power over both as evidence of
Gandalf's great fear of using it, and Saruman's infatuation which
led to his eventual fall.
Mike Sullivan
Louis Epstein
: "...'But in any case,' said Glorfindel, 'to send the Ring to him would
: only postpone the day of evil. ...soon or late the Lord of the Rings
: would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it.
: Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that
: in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was
: First; and then Night will come.'
: "'I know little of Iarwain [e.g., Bombadil] save the name,' said
: Galdor; 'but Glorfindel, I think, is right. Power to defy our Enemy is
: not in him...'"
: There you have it: two out of two Elves say no. Put Sauron and Bombadil
: together, and in no time at all you've got Cream of Bombadillo Soup.
"In the end,if all else is conquered" does not add up to "in no time at all"...
give the guy a little credit!
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------
: o...@netcom.com Add some onions and green peppers, get a good
: design for the can-label, and I think we've got a
: marketable product here. :)
Nope...key ingredient too rare,economy too depressed after preparation.
Chris Zakes / Tivar Moondragon
great part of it. I think TB is another Maia who decided to hang
out in ME rather than live the high life in the West. Since he is
of the same origin as Sauron, and hence would have a similar
power, he could choose for the Ring not to affect him.
Elisabeth Zakes
102435,2644
Mark Furnival
existed as a character long before LOTR was written) is the
embodiment of the English (specifically the Oxfordshire)
countryside. I have to admit that the Bombadil episodes are far
and way the most surreal part of the book, and always strike me as
not really agreeing with the internal consistency of the story.
Perhaps his appearance is a little self-indulgent on the part of
the author.
Neil Sutchen
10> Actually, not "all" Sauron's power came from the ring, only a
10> great part of it. I think TB is another Maia who decided to hang
10> out in ME rather than live the high life in the West. Since he is
10> of the same origin as Sauron, and hence would have a similar
10> power, he could choose for the Ring not to affect him.
10> Elisabeth Zakes
I believe it was rather that Tom was master within his realm. Nothing
had power over him as long as he was within the Old Forest. I also
believe that there is a reference to him fading with the forest.
Something about him being a shadow of his former self. That is why the
Ring would not have been safe in the hands of Tom, Sauron could
eventually destroy the Old Forest and by doing so, break down Tom and
reclaim the Ring.
Neil
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Jay Hayes
I agree wholeheartedly. Bombadil is like the nameless creatures under the
earth; things that can't be explained because they are meant to be
mysterious in order to allow the reader to form his or her own opinions.
Tolkien was purposely being vague when he wrote Bombadil's character.
Frodo asked Goldberry, 'Who is he?' and she answered, "He is." Bombadil
is an anomaly, something that defies explanation, and makes us spend that
much more energy trying to make sense of the phenomena, as Master Tolkien
probably intended!
--
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bfge...@wchat.on.ca
>R.J. Dartsch (u891...@muss.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote:
>: Since the ring has no power over him does it not stand that Tom has more
>: power than Sauron since all of Saurons power comes from the ring.
>Should have picked this up before,it is NOT true that "all of Sauron's
>power comes from the ring"...most of Sauron's power was invested in the
>Ring so as to control the entire Ring-of-power system,but he was the author
>of this...most of ITS power came from him...
I think not. Destroy the ring and you destroy Sauron. That tells me
that all of Saurons power is in the ring. Now the power that the ring
has did originaly come from Sauron and the power he did not put into
the ring he lost when he was killed by Isildur and the boys.
Louis Epstein
: lep...@j51.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
No...Sauron predated the Ring,he was never its puppet.And when he was without
it he was not without power.Its destruction jeopardized him,but his loss
of it did not.