Aragorn's race(Was: Elros and Elrond)
Jeff Freeman
As I was rereading Return of the King last night I saw a passage that would
help however wanted to figure out Aragorn's bloodline percentages. At the end
of the chapter "THe Steward and the King", just before Aragorn finds the
seedling of the White Tree, he says "For I am a mortal man, and though being
what I am and of the race of the West unminggled ..." I would take that to
mean that his line was all of noble (Numenorean) birth and did not mix with
the men of ME.
Just my thoughts,
Jeff
--
The Imperial Network {is on vacation} | We destroy more planets before
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Bill MacLean
In the appendix to ROTK, Aragorn says to his wife that "I am the last of the Numenoreans". Why is this so?
Isn't Aragorn's son as much a Numenorean as him? Perhaps even more so, because the blood of the son would be
much more like that of Earndil with Arwen as his mother.
Thanks,
Bill MacLean
David Salo
In article <51blsa$3...@acmey.gatech.edu>, gt4...@prism.gatech.edu (Jeff
Freeman) wrote:
> As I was rereading Return of the King last night I saw a passage that would
> help however wanted to figure out Aragorn's bloodline percentages. At the end
> of the chapter "THe Steward and the King", just before Aragorn finds the
> seedling of the White Tree, he says "For I am a mortal man, and though being
> what I am and of the race of the West unminggled ..." I would take that to
> mean that his line was all of noble (Numenorean) birth and did not mix with
> the men of ME.
With reference to this passage, Tolkien wrote in a letter to Rhona
Beare (Letters #230): "With regard to Aragorn's boast, I think he was
reckoning his ancestry through the paternal line for this purpose; but in
any case I imagine that Numenoreans, before their knowledge dwindled, knew
more about heredity than other people. To this of course they refer by
the common symbol of blood. They recognized the fact that in spite of
intermarriages, some characteristics would appear in pure form in later
generations. Aragorn's own longevity was a case in point. Gandalf I
think refers to the curious fact that even in the much less well preserved
house of the stewards Denethor had come out as almost purely Numenorean."
Tolkien refers to the following passage in the chapter 'Minas Tirith':
"He is not as other men of this time, Pippin, and whatever be his descent
from father to son, by some chance the blood of Westernesse runs nearly
true in him; as it does in his other son, Faramir, and yet did not in
Boromir whom he loved best."
David Salo
Ninni M. Pettersson
In message ID <51blsa$3...@acmey.gatech.edu> on 1996-09-13, Jeff Freeman wrote:
> As I was rereading Return of the King last night I saw a passage that
would
> help however wanted to figure out Aragorn's bloodline percentages. At the
end
> of the chapter "THe Steward and the King", just before Aragorn finds the
> seedling of the White Tree, he says "For I am a mortal man, and though
being
> what I am and of the race of the West unminggled ..." I would take that
to
> mean that his line was all of noble (Numenorean) birth and did not mix
with
> the men of ME.
"With regard to Aragorn's boast, [For I am a mortal man . . . of the race of
the West unmingled] I think he was reckoning his ancestry through the
paternal line for this purpose; but in any case I imagine that Numenoreans,
before their knowledge dwindled, knew more about heredity than other people.
To this of course they refer by the common symbol of blood. They recognized
the fact that in spite of intermarriages, some characteristics would appear
in pure form in later generations. Aragorn's own longevity was a case in
point. Gandalf I think refers to the curious fact that even in the much less
well preserved house of the stewards Denethor had come out as almost purely
Numenorean."
vidu...@online.idg.se (via BulkRate 2.1.2)
Michael Martinez
There was more to being a Numenorean than simply being descended of an ancient
people. There were other Edainic men in Middle-earth, but they could not be
considered "Numenorean".
Aragorn was speaking of his cultural heritage. He was schooled and befriended
by Elven lords, just as the Numenoreans had been, and he was the last of his
race to participate in one of the great Elvish struggles, the final war
against Sauron. He was saying, essentially, that whatever followed, there
would be no more Numenorean kings to come out of the Sea armed with the
ancient lore and wisdom he possessed, or allied with the Eldar, who were no
longer a power in Middle-earth.
Most of the Men of Gondor were no longer truly Numenorean. They did not move
in the great rhythms of the Third Age, or understand the ancient alliances
which still managed to work against Sauron despite the growing estrangement
between Elves, Men, and Dwarves. Aragorn was as much like one of the Ancient
Edain or Numenoreans as any man of his age could be, but with the passing of
Sauron and Elrond, there was no way that Numenorean culture could be restored.
They could only go on to establish a "Dunadan" or "Gondorian/Arnorian"
culture that would, in time, supplant the memories of Numenor, except as it
passed into myth (the Atlantis legend).
From about the year 310 of the First Age of the Sun until the end of the Third
Age, lords of Edainic race had been allied with the Eldar. But there were no
more Eldar after Aragorn died (except maybe a few mariners in Lindon, but they
were little more than an embassy by then). All the great struggles, all the
powerful themes, all the political machination enacted in Middle-earth after
the Third Age were strictly of a Mannish nature. There was nothing of the
ancient civilization of the Elves which continued to influence and enrichen
Men. The Numenoreans were the link between Men and Elves, and with Aragorn's
death there were no more links.
++ ++ "Well Samwise: What do you think of the elves now?"
||\ /|| --fbag...@mid.earth.com
|| v ||ichael Martinez (mma...@basis.com)
++ ++------------------------------------------------------