How did Shelob reproduce?
Siena
In "Shelob's Lair," Tolkien says:
"Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own
offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen..."
It is not clear to me from this passage how Shelob reproduced. Did she mate with
her own offspring? But if so, who was her first mate?
Edward
Rudeboy
[Sigurd Erland]
>As far as I know, animals doesn't know the word "incest". I don't know
>about insects, but it's kind of hard to believe that it would have
>stopped Shelob anyway.
Particularly since spiders aren't insects; they're arachnids.
(That's okay, though. Tolkien makes the same mistake in _The Hobbit_,
if memory serves.)
Humbly yours,
Rudeboy
Rudeboy
[smryan]
>There are some things I do not wish to imagine.
>Oh, sweetums, Shelob, you look so sexy.
Yess, preciouss. Gollum will gives it a nice bit of lovings, yess.
And then, *gollum!* when we're all finisshed, *gollum!* we'll sticks it
with the nassty bright elf sword, yess! Tricksy we are, preciouss, and
smart! *gollum, gollum, gollum!*
[smryan]
>her clinging clay will clothe and smother. | I don't use no smileys
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Someone after my own heart! Smileys are for the weak, the foolish, and the
illiterate. No offense, of course...
Humbly yours,
Rudeboy
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Rudeboy, the Voice of a Generation -- ez01...@chip.ucdavis.edu
Disclaimer: My opinions are the opinions of my employer, my employer's
family and friends, and anyone else in the entire world who either has
or has not met me, unless they specifically tell you otherwise and
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After having done so, any such individual still holds my opinions,
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Sigurd Erland
si...@oldcedar.com (Siena) wrote:
>Edward
Shelob was a spider descended from Ungoliant, the "arch-spider"
mentioned in the Silmarillion. If I remember correctly, many of
Ungoliants offspring lived in Dorthonion in Beleriand, making peoples
lives miserable. Let's for simplicitys sake say that Shelob already
was pregnant when she once upon a time came to her hiding place near
Cirith Ungol, and laid some eggs there.
Let's further imagine that she kicks 90 % of her offspring out of
their cozy home, to pester other parts of the world, while reproducing
with a few males she keeps for that purpose. I don't know what would
be worst, having sex with Shelob, or being eaten after the act. Sorry,
I couldn't resist it...
As far as I know, animals doesn't know the word "incest". I don't know
about insects, but it's kind of hard to believe that it would have
stopped Shelob anyway.
Sigurd Erland (Norwegian Tolkien fan)
@#$%!?!
There are some things I do not wish to imagine.
Oh, sweetums, Shelob, you look so sexy.
--
In mirrored maze he met the Mother, | smr...@netcom.com PO Box 1563
the lost and breathless, lonely brother. | Cupertino, California
Both crone and child, now crying wild, | (xxx)xxx-xxxx 95015
Lars Haugseth
ser...@olivetti.no (Sigurd Erland) writes:
> As far as I know, animals doesn't know the word "incest". I don't know
> about insects, but it's kind of hard to believe that it would have
> stopped Shelob anyway.
insect/incest - just a coincidence? :)
> Sigurd Erland (Norwegian Tolkien fan)
--
Lars Haugseth <lar...@ifi.uio.no> (Another norwegian Tolkien fan)
Dianne
Or how about, "What's that sexy new perfume you're wearing?"
--
Dianne
Simon Slavin
In article <4vfc6d$5...@mark.ucdavis.edu>,
ez01...@boris.ucdavis.edu (Rudeboy) wrote:
> [Sigurd Erland]
> >As far as I know, animals doesn't know the word "incest". I don't know
> >about insects, but it's kind of hard to believe that it would have
> >stopped Shelob anyway.
>
> Particularly since spiders aren't insects; they're arachnids.
Also, I don't think they could have transgenerational sex. The
next generation doesn't mature until the previous generation is
long dead. Mind you, Tolkien's are somewhat unusual spiders.
[I could be wrong ... I haven't studied the
life cycles of the different breeds of spiders.]
Simon.
--
Lest anyone think advertisers aren't beginning to catch on, a recent Letter
to the Editor from a disillusioned direct marketer with, apparently, some
experience on Usenet noted that "Usenet users are some of the cheapest
bastards on the planet." -- Paul Havemann on alt.internet.media-coverage
robert averbeck
Shelob: Honey, don't forget to clean up your mess when you're finished
eating.
Son: Mmble, mmble.
Shelob: Humph! I slave all day cooking your bother for you and that's
the thanks I get? It could have been you you know!
Son: Sorry mom.
Shelob: That's better. Now hurry up, I'm feeling frisky tonight.
Son: Aww, mom!
At home with the spiders. A mini-sequel to Lord of the Rings by Rob
Averbeck.
:|
Tom
In article <4veclk$9...@kaleka.seanet.com>, Siena wrote:
>In "Shelob's Lair," Tolkien says:
>
>"Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own
>offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen..."
>
>It is not clear to me from this passage how Shelob reproduced. Did she mate with
>her own offspring? But if so, who was her first mate?
From "Of the Flight of the Noldor" in Silm.:
"...and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand, and dwelt
beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan
Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, because of the horror that
she bred there. For other fowl creatures of spider form had dwelt
there since the days of the delving of Angbad, and she mated with them
and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed, and went
wither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring
abode there and wove thier hideous webs. Of the fate of Ungoliant no
tale tells. Yet some have said that she ended long ago, when in her
uttermost famine she devoured herself at last."
Tom
Brandy
@#$%!?! wrote:
>
> There are some things I do not wish to imagine.
>
> Oh, sweetums, Shelob, you look so sexy.
There's more than one type of reproduction. Shelob might have popped off
her little spider-babies asexually, like a yeast or a hydra.
But I don't think that was the case. Didn't she devour her mates, like
preying mantis femme fatales?
regards,
kella
Dianne
"Hey there big boy, come to mama" takes on a whole new connotation, huh?
--
Dianne
Aaron Schweinsberg
"Now splaying her legs she drove her huge bulk down on him again."
"Shelob, with the driving force of her own cruel will, with greater
strength than any warrior's hand, thrust herself upon a bitter spike.
Deep, deep it pricked..."
-Lines from chapter 10 of The Two Towers.
Ryan M. Sapp
This last message is really gross.
Morgoth
More liek she ate her mates as in "BLACK WIDOW SPIDERS".
Of course where did the first mate come from? Normal spider or what?
I think she was first a spirit that took the form of a spider, and the
form mated. And not the spirit..
Was there not a spider in the first age, Unglogiant (or some such, a
friend of Morgoth or Sauraon). So in a way Shelob is a child of the first
or ??
I wonder is she the bastard child of Sauron? Imagine the child support
payments after a few thousand years?
On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Brandy wrote:
> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:56:31 +0000
> From: Brandy <beav...@csulb.edu>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien
> Subject: Re: How did Shelob reproduce?
>
> @#$%!?! wrote:
> >
> > There are some things I do not wish to imagine.
> >
> > Oh, sweetums, Shelob, you look so sexy.
>
> There's more than one type of reproduction. Shelob might have popped off
> her little spider-babies asexually, like a yeast or a hydra.
> But I don't think that was the case. Didn't she devour her mates, like
> preying mantis femme fatales?
>
> regards,
> kella
>
>
Morgoth
If you think I'm scary, you should see me kids (grin).
Aaron Schweinsberg
In article
<Pine.HPP.3.95.96082...@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>, "Ryan
M. Sapp" <rs...@ecst.csuchico.edu> wrote:
> This last message is really gross.
Gross? Does that mean you don't want to hear how:
"Sam sprang in, inside the arches of her legs, and with a quick upthrust..."
-Line taken out of context from chapter 10 of The Two Towers.
I must note that I read about the possibility of Sam's encounter with
Shelob containing sexual symbolism in Brenda Partridge's essay, "No Sex
Please-We're Hobbits: The Construction of Female Sexuality in The Lord of
the Rings." I'm curious to hear what anyone else thinks of the idea; I'm
not sure I agree with it myself. (of course, I wasn't about to let that
stop me from making a disgusting post. :-)
-Aaron
Sander Vesik
Morgoth (mor...@nome.net) wrote:
: More liek she ate her mates as in "BLACK WIDOW SPIDERS".
: Of course where did the first mate come from? Normal spider or what?
: I think she was first a spirit that took the form of a spider, and the
: form mated. And not the spirit..
No. Shelob was not a spirit that took a shape. According to all accounts,
she was born to this world.
: Was there not a spider in the first age, Unglogiant (or some such, a
: friend of Morgoth or Sauraon). So in a way Shelob is a child of the first
: or ??
Ungoliant was not a spider but a Maia who took spider form. Shelob was the
last of her offsprings. And she was no-ones friend. She was somewhat allied
and somewhat a servant to Morgoth. As for Sauron, she was most probably
stronger than Sauron.
: I wonder is she the bastard child of Sauron? Imagine the child support
: payments after a few thousand years?
No. That at least is sure. Had Sauron gone to the hide of Ungoliant, there
would have been far less problems (one big baddie gone).
Sander
Rebecca Voris
In article <ams50-30089...@j320772122.resnet.cornell.edu> am...@cornell.edu (Aaron Schweinsberg) writes:
> I must note that I read about the possibility of Sam's encounter with
> Shelob containing sexual symbolism in Brenda Partridge's essay, "No Sex
> Please-We're Hobbits: The Construction of Female Sexuality in The Lord of
> the Rings." I'm curious to hear what anyone else thinks of the idea; I'm
> not sure I agree with it myself. (of course, I wasn't about to let that
> stop me from making a disgusting post. :-)
>
> -Aaron
If you would be so kind, I would greatly appreciate it if you would
post the full citation for this article, or otherwise let me know how
I might get my hands on a copy. It sounds really interesting, and I
would like to read it.
-With sincere gratitude,
Rebecca Voris
Boston
Bill MacLean
Rebecca Voris wrote:
>
> In article <ams50-30089...@j320772122.resnet.cornell.edu> am...@cornell.edu (Aaron Schweinsberg) writes:
>
> > I must note that I read about the possibility of Sam's encounter with
> > Shelob containing sexual symbolism in Brenda Partridge's essay, "No Sex
> > Please-We're Hobbits: The Construction of Female Sexuality in The Lord of
> > the Rings." I'm curious to hear what anyone else thinks of the idea; I'm
> > not sure I agree with it myself. (of course, I wasn't about to let that
> > stop me from making a disgusting post. :-)
> >
> > -Aaron
I agree that it was a disgusting post.
<<I'm curious to hear what anyone else thinks of the idea; I'm
not sure I agree with it myself.>>
I never heard of this essay before I read your post, so I can't say a whole lot about it, other than to say
that some people can relate *anything* to sex (although even Freud himself is quoted as saying "sometimes a
cigar is just a cigar" when asked by his friends what his cigar meant according to Freud's own theories). If
Brenda Partridge indeed thinks that Sam's encounter with Shelob is full of sexual imagery, I feel really sorry
for her husband :)
I am reminded of a story by C.S. Lewis (unfortunately, I don't have the book in front of me but the story was
in a book called "The Dark Tower" and I believe it was the story "ShadowLands") where he said something of the
sort that "...she was so free to talk about sex that indeed she hardly talked of anything else". This is not
a direct quote, and perhaps someone can help by getting the actual quote.
Bottom line: I really like the Tolkien stories, and I don't think they have much to do with sex.
Thanks,
Bill MacLean
Thanks,
Bill MacLean
Aaron Schweinsberg
In article <RVORIS.96...@sunspot.tiac.net>, rvo...@sunspot.tiac.net
(Rebecca Voris) wrote:
> If you would be so kind, I would greatly appreciate it if you would
> post the full citation for this article, or otherwise let me know how
> I might get my hands on a copy. It sounds really interesting, and I
> would like to read it.
Here it is.
Brenda Partrige, "No Sex Please-We're Hobbits: The Construction of Female
Sexuality in The Lord of the Rings. " In J.R.R. Tolkien: This Far Land,
ed. Robert Giddings (London: Vision Press Limited, 1983), 184.
-Aaron
@#$%!?!
'Garn!' said Shagrat. 'She's got more than one poison. When she's
hunting, she just gives 'em a dab in the neck an dthe go as limp as
boned fish, and then she has her way with them. D'you remember
old Ufthak? We lost him for days. Then we found him in a corner;
hanging up he was, but he was wide awake and glaring. How we
laughed! She'd forgotten him, maybe, but we didn't touch him--no
good interfering with Her...."
I'll have to read that paragraph in a whole new light now.