20 Questions (Clams I)
Clams Canino
After falling asleep while reading a (yet unnamed) Tolkien book, I have
awakened with a fairly uninspired item.
It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
Raven
news:RJKdnajOwKVHBZfW...@earthlink.com...
1. Is it manufactured?
Hr�fn.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
news:4b0abea0$0$56781$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
> Hr�fn.
>
Dirk Thierbach
|: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
|:
|: 1. Is it manufactured?
|: No
2. Food?
- Dirk
Clams Canino
"Dirk Thierbach" <dthie...@usenet.arcornews.de> wrote in message
news:20091123183733...@dthierbach.news.arcor.de...
Clams Canino
"Nautilus" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:me1-27F323.1...@news.t-online.de...
> In article <AJadnYV7J9qQSpfW...@earthlink.com>,
Yes
Raven
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
4. A tree?
Kirina.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
No
Öjevind Lång
> > > |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> > > |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> > > |: No
> > > |: 2. Food?
> > > |: No
> > > |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> > > |: Yes
> > > 4. A tree?
> No
A sentient being?
Öjevind
Troels Forchhammer
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
>
|: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
|: 1. Is it manufactured?
|: No
|: 2. Food?
|: No
|: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
|: Yes
|: 4. A tree?
>
> No
An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
To make a name for learning
when other roads are barred,
take something very easy
and make it very hard.
- Piet Hein, /Wide Road/
Clams Canino
"�jevind L�ng" <ojevin...@bredband.net> wrote in message
news:f5785fe4-11fd-4658...@m35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
5. A sentient being?
No
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9CCCE032...@130.133.1.4...
> In message <news:lJednbBMVav0a5fW...@earthlink.com>
> "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
> >
>
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
> |: 4. A tree?
> >
> > No
5. A sentient being?
No
6. An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
Yes....... to at least one of those 3 bundled questions.
Raven
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
> |: 4. A tree?
> |: No
> |: 5. A sentient being?
> |: No
> |: 6. An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
> |: Yes....... to at least one of those 3 bundled questions.
7. A flower?
Br�n.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
Not per se.
I'll note that most plantlife "flowers" as part of its reproductive cycle,
but is still not called "a flower".
-W
Raven
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
> |: 4. A tree?
> |: No
> |: 5. A sentient being?
> |: No
> |: 6. An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
> |: Yes....... to at least one of those 3 bundled questions.
> |: 7. A flower?
> |: Not per se.
> |: I'll note that most plantlife "flowers" as part of its reproductive
> |: cycle, but is still not called "a flower".
8. I'll try to unbundle question 6 then. Is it a species (such as a
coconut palm) or a family (such as grass) as *opposed* to an individual
plant (such as Bilbo's Party Tree)?
Marghvran.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
No
Troels Forchhammer
> in message news:4b0b0918$0$56780$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>>
>> (such as a coconut palm) or a family (such as grass) as
>> *opposed* to an individual plant (such as Bilbo's Party
>> Tree)?
Thanks, that was (of course) my thought, but I forgot to put it as a
yes/no question . . . :)
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded
gold, it would be a merrier world.
- Thorin Oakenshield, /The Hobbit/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
> >> 8. I'll try to unbundle question 6 then. Is it a species
> >> (such as a coconut palm) or a family (such as grass) as
> >> *opposed* to an individual plant (such as Bilbo's Party
> >> Tree)?
>
> Thanks, that was (of course) my thought, but I forgot to put it as a
> yes/no question . . . :)
I honestly did not know what you were going for. Had your answer been
binary, I would have spit it. But with three possibilities raised in your
question - I took the safe route.
-W
PS: The Party tree did not, I think, belong ot Bilbo Baggins.
Clams Canino
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote in message
> PS: The Party tree did not, I think, belong ot Bilbo Baggins.
>
I'll note that the ownership of said Party Tree, has nothing to do with the
puzzle at hand.
-W
Raven
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
> |: 4. A tree?
> |: No
> |: 5. A sentient being?
> |: No
> |: 6. An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
> |: Yes....... to at least one of those 3 bundled questions.
> |: 7. A flower?
> |: Not per se.
> |: I'll note that most plantlife "flowers" as part of its reproductive
> |: cycle, but is still not called "a flower".
> |: 8. I'll try to unbundle question 6 then. Is it a species (such as a
> |: coconut palm) or a family (such as grass) as *opposed* to an individual
> |: plant (such as Bilbo's Party Tree)?
> |: No
So it seems that we are looking for an individual plant that is not a
tree nor a flower - though perhaps a plant which, like trees and grasses, do
employ flowers to reproduce. I suppose we call a whole plant "a flower" if
the part of the plant which botanically actually is the flower visually
dominates the rest of the plant at some time during the plant's life cycle.
:-) A stem of grass has flowers; a tulip has a flower. Only one of them is
*called* a flower. I'm no botanist, though, just sometimes a pedant, like
most with some interest in science. :-)
9. Does a hobbit see it and/or come within stone's throw of it?
Cuervo.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
Thoughtful analysis skipped over.....
> 9. Does a hobbit see it and/or come within stone's throw of it?
Yes...
Raven
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
> |: 4. A tree?
> |: No
> |: 5. A sentient being?
> |: No
> |: 6. An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
> |: Yes....... to at least one of those 3 bundled questions.
> |: 7. A flower?
> |: Not per se.
> |: I'll note that most plantlife "flowers" as part of its reproductive
> |: cycle, but is still not called "a flower".
> |: 8. I'll try to unbundle question 6 then. Is it a species (such as
> |: a coconut palm) or a family (such as grass) as *opposed*
> |: to an individual plant (such as Bilbo's Party Tree)?
> |: No
> |: 9. Does a hobbit see it and/or come within stone's throw of it?
> |: Yes...
I'm having a holiday from work, and for once spending that holiday
lazily - I have *time* for this ---
10. Does Frodo?
Annank�kai.
Troels Forchhammer
> been binary, I would have spit it. But with three possibilities
> raised in your question - I took the safe route.
Sorry -- it was my error entirely. I started by putting it as a binary
question: individual or genus, but then I realized that there might be
other kinds of groups, so this might not be exhaustive ("Fangorn
Forest" would, for instance, be a group of plants that is not a single
genus) but when I tried to amend the question it just went downhill ;-)
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal
nothing.
- Frodo Baggins, /The Return of the King/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
Derek Broughton
> So it seems that we are looking for an individual plant that is not a
> tree nor a flower - though perhaps a plant which, like trees and grasses,
> do
> employ flowers to reproduce. I suppose we call a whole plant "a flower"
> if the part of the plant which botanically actually is the flower visually
> dominates the rest of the plant at some time during the plant's life
> cycle.
Heavens, no. It's not _that_ simple - we call a Poinsettia a flower,
because a significant non-flowering portion _looks_ like a flower :-)
--
derek
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
Yes
Raven
> |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> |: No
> |: 2. Food?
> |: No
> |: 3. Are we talking about a living being then.......
> |: Yes
> |: 4. A tree?
> |: No
> |: 5. A sentient being?
> |: No
> |: 6. An individual plant or a genus (or other group)?
> |: Yes....... to at least one of those 3 bundled questions.
> |: 7. A flower?
> |: Not per se.
> |: I'll note that most plantlife "flowers" as part of its reproductive
> |: cycle, but is still not called "a flower".
> |: 8. I'll try to unbundle question 6 then. Is it a species (such as
> |: a coconut palm) or a family (such as grass) as *opposed*
> |: to an individual plant (such as Bilbo's Party Tree)?
> |: No
> |: 9. Does a hobbit see it and/or come within stone's throw of it?
> |: Yes...
> |: 10. Does Frodo?
> |: Yes
11. Does he touch it?
Voron.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
No. At least not as stated.
-W
Raven
Hm. Not the thornbush he landed in when he and Sam jumped off the bridge
during their flight from the tower of Cirith Ungol then.
12. Does he have the Ring at the time?
(Nighty-night. I have an early appointment with the dentist tomorrow, or
I could have gone on for a few hours more.)
Kruk.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
> 12. Does he have the Ring at the time?
Yes (which is true in 95% of the book)
Clams Canino
> In article <8rqdnbtmEMIXqpbW...@earthlink.com>,
> 13. Is Frodo already together with Sam and Gollum at the time when he
> is near the plant?
No
-W
Rebecca
<jon.lennart.beck.its.my.n...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote:
> "Clams Canino" <cc-mar...@earthdink.net> skrev i meddelelsennews:yNOdnYDwk5WviZbW...@earthlink.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am sorry if I am getting ahead of things:
11. Is it a leaf, such as a Lembas leaf?
Rebecca (delurking temporarily)
Derek Broughton
> In message <news:aJGdnRbL4toOk5bW...@earthlink.com>
> "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
>>
>> I honestly did not know what you were going for. Had your answer
>> been binary, I would have spit it. But with three possibilities
>> raised in your question - I took the safe route.
>
> Sorry -- it was my error entirely. I started by putting it as a binary
> question: individual or genus, but then I realized that there might be
> other kinds of groups, so this might not be exhaustive ("Fangorn
> Forest" would, for instance, be a group of plants that is not a single
> genus) but when I tried to amend the question it just went downhill ;-)
I thought we'd established it was a plant - they don't usually _go_ downhill
unless they're dead. Have we established that it's no longer living?
--
derek
Raven
news:js3st6-...@morgen.pointerstop.ca...
> I thought we'd established it was a plant - they don't usually _go_
> downhill unless they're dead. Have we established that it's no
> longer living?
Were there triffids in ME?
Corbeau.
Clams Canino
14. Is it a leaf, such as a Lembas leaf?
Though I would presume it *has* leaves - it is not *a leaf*
Clams Canino
> In article <_f-dnS5JzfO5bpbW...@earthlink.com>,
No... exactly like question 11 re. Frodo:
Any Hobbits who *may* have been with (or without) Frodo would not have had
bodily contact with this plantlife - at least as stated.
Öjevind Lång
> bodily contact with this plantlife - at least as stated.- Dölj citerad text -
16. Do they encounter it before they reach Rivendell?
Öjevind
Clams Canino
"�jevind L�ng" <ojevin...@bredband.net> wrote in message
news:d01e77b4-3eb4-435b...@e7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> bodily contact with this plantlife - at least as stated.- D�lj citerad
text -
16. Do they encounter it before they reach Rivendell?
Yes
Raven
> |: 16. Do they encounter it before they reach Rivendell?
> |: Yes
17. Is Strider with them?
Corbie.
Öjevind Lång
> > > bodily contact with this plantlife - at least as stated.- Dölj citerad
> > text -
>
> > 16. Do they encounter it before they reach Rivendell?
>
> > Yes
>
> 17. Does this plant also play a role in "The Hobbit"?
18. Raven asked: "Is Strider with them?"
19. Is it athelas?
Öjevind
Clams Canino
No
Clams Canino
> > > bodily contact with this plantlife - at least as stated.- D�lj citerad
> > text -
>
> > 16. Do they encounter it before they reach Rivendell?
>
> > Yes
>
> 17. Does this plant also play a role in "The Hobbit"?
No
18. Raven asked: "Is Strider with them?"
No
19. Is it athelas?
No
Clams Canino
> In article <wIOdndrjpLf-j5HW...@earthlink.com>,
Yes
Clams Canino
answer - I'll presume to add hints to the main body.
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
news:4b0c0a9a$0$56783$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
> "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> skrev i meddelelsen
> news:UtidnTBQpr2Qm5HW...@earthlink.com...
>
> > |: It is of the vegetable kingdom. You may proceed at will.
> > |: 1. Is it manufactured?
> > |: No - But I'd suspect it's touched by hands
> > |: 4. A tree?
> > |: No - However by some stretch one might try to label it so. I
supopose
> > |: 9. Does a hobbit see it and/or come within stone's throw of it?
> > |: Yes... I'd say avoids it in fact.
> > |: 10. Does Frodo?
> > |: Yes
> > |: 11. Does he touch it?
> > |: No. At least not as stated. - And if he did touch it, he failed to
avoid it.
> > |: 13. Is Frodo already together with Sam and Gollum at the time when
> > |: he is near the plant?
> > |: No - Gollum is not there.
> > |: 15. Does one of the other hobbits come into bodily contact with it?
> > |: No... exactly like question 11 re. Frodo:
>> In fact, the text states implicitly that bodily contact is avoided.
Clams Canino
I'll further note the plant or plantlife in question may be so obscure as to
be unfair.
Except, that it was mentioned *twice* in the narrative - thereby rising to a
status just slightly into the fair zone. :)
-W
Raven
> |: 16. Do they encounter it before they reach Rivendell?
> |: Yes
> |: 17. Does this plant also play a role in "The Hobbit"?
> |: No
> |: 18. Raven asked: "Is Strider with them?"
> |: No
> |: 19. Is it athelas?
> |: No
> |: 20. Is it west of the Baranduin?
> |: Yes
21. Is it a domesticated plant?
Korppi.
Clams Canino
> In article <872dnemRivO1h5HW...@earthlink.com>,
> 21. Does it have thorns?
No
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
Yes.. it appears to be at least tamed. :)
-W
Clams Canino
"Nautilus" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message news:me1-
> 21. Does it have thorns?
> (But if it isn't the thorny bushes or brambles that the three hobbits
> get into after the night with the elves in the Shire, I'll have to
> pass. :-) They have just descended from some higher point and see a
> black rider up from where they came. I don't remember the name of the
> place.)
The reason this could not be the case, is that I clearly stated that from
the text, that I feel hobbits had no direct contact with this plantlife.
That rules out the brambles they wound up in.
-W
Hari Seldon
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> schreef in bericht
news:sIGdncnla8wt05HW...@earthlink.com...
Tricky. Could be Longbottoms Pipeweed... without question 5 it could be more
profound, One of Sams daughters, or even Rosie Cotton (on the Double) ;-)
Clams Canino
"Hari Seldon" <Roel....@philips.nl> wrote in message
news:d60c7$4b0c5bfa$4dfa73e5$10...@news.chello.nl...
>
> "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> schreef in bericht
> news:sIGdncnla8wt05HW...@earthlink.com...
> >
> 23. Could be Longbottoms Pipeweed
No.... nor any other farmed plant.
Raven
> |: 21. No thorns.
> |: 22. Is it a domesticated plant?
> |: Yes.. it appears to be at least tamed. :)
> |: 23. Could be Longbottoms Pipeweed
> |: No.... nor any other farmed plant.
24. Do they encounter it after they set out on the quest, ie. after they
leave Hobbiton?
Karasu.
Öjevind Lång
<jon.lennart.beck.its.my.n...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote:
> "Clams Canino" <cc-mar...@earthdink.net> skrev i meddelelsennews:i_edncunVo48wZHW...@earthlink.com...
25. I'd guess it was the Party Tree if it wasn't for the fact that the
Party Tree has already been the subject of one of these quizes.
Instead I ask: Is it the High Hay?
Öjevind
Clams Canino
No.
25. I'd guess it was the Party Tree if it wasn't for the fact that the
Party Tree has already been the subject of one of these quizes.
Instead I ask: Is it the High Hay?
No
Julian Bradfield
> In article <Ma6dnXRaPrN9rJDW...@earthlink.com>,
> "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote:
>
>> "Öjevind Lång" <ojevin...@bredband.net> wrote in message
> about the ring?
> I had this in mind sometime earlier but discarded it because it isn't
> really an individual plant.
And if it isn't, how about
27. The hedge at the end of the garden where both Bilbo and Frodo jump
over the "low part" in order to leave discreetly.
Clams Canino
> In article <Ma6dnXRaPrN9rJDW...@earthlink.com>,
> about the ring?
> I had this in mind sometime earlier but discarded it because it isn't
> really an individual plant.
I never stated it was an individual plant. What I tried to do with the
bundled question issues was to indicate I was not looking for a specific
"family" or genus of plantlife.
With the above in mind.... my answer is "I don't know". The item I had in
mind was a hedge, I'm just not sure if it's the same one Sam was trimming
or not??
What's significant about MY hedge is that both Bilbo and Frodo jumped over
this hedge (at the low point) to start thier adventure. Bilbo the night of
his birthday party, and then Frodo many years later when leaving Bag-End.
The author was perhaps trying to teach us that even though things change -
they still remain the same.
I think we need to declare you the winner...... since you asked the final
question and at least cornered me into giving it up.
-W
Troels Forchhammer
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
>
<snip>
> What's significant about MY hedge is that both Bilbo and Frodo
> jumped over this hedge (at the low point) to start thier
> adventure.
In that case surely Julian is the winner -- he suggested that very
hedge at 17:12 UTC in message ID
<news:slrnhgqpb...@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk>
>>
>> And if it isn't, how about
>> 27. The hedge at the end of the garden where both Bilbo and Frodo
>> jump over the "low part" in order to leave discreetly.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
If no thought
your mind does visit,
make your speech
not too explicit.
- Piet Hein, /The Case for Obscurity/
Clams Canino
-W
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote in message news:...
> What's significant about MY hedge is that both Bilbo and Frodo jumped over
Clams Canino
"Julian Bradfield" <j...@inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnhgqpb...@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk...
> 27. The hedge at the end of the garden where both Bilbo and Frodo jump
> over the "low part" in order to leave discreetly.
I already awarded it to Nautilus.... but you actually have it nailed.
The only reason I "gave it" to him was that I could not prove that they were
not the same hedge. That, and I felt guilty dragging it out any longer.
That said... since HE has not posted yet.... If nobody minds... I now feel
you are the actual technical winner - since you got it 100 correct.
-W
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
> In that case surely Julian is the winner -- he suggested that very
> hedge at 17:12 UTC in message ID
Agreed. Especially since Nautilus missed entirely.
I was at first concerned that Nautilus' hedge could be the same hedge. But
I can now say (without hedging) that Julian has it hands down.
Congratz to Julian.
-W
( PS Was my hedge too obscure??)
Öjevind Lång
[snip]
> ( PS Was my hedge too obscure??)
I think it was, in common with several of the other questions asked
here, but that's just my personal opinion.
Öjevind
Clams Canino
[snip]
I think the problem is: Most of those here have an almost encyclopedic
knowledge of at least the Hobbit and LotR. The fear I had when posing a
question was that it would be answered in under 15 (too easy) or over 25
(too hard). I would not have used the low place in the hedge had it not
been called to my attention a 2nd time by the author when Frodo and co left
Bag-End.
As the questions developed... I experienced some unforeseen difficulties
handling some of the questions. The hedge was domestic, but not farmed.
Hand shaped, but not "manufactured" per se etc etc...
-W