[IBC] virtuals (hints wanted)
Alicia Thompson
I have both illistrartor, and photoshop. I am still trying to figure out how to use them but am not having all that much success.
What software do you use?
Do you guys work with layers?
Do you keep tree parts for your virtuals? (leaves, branches ect....)
I would like to start practicing this so would appreciate some hints. Hopefully it will buy me a few more weeks worth of patience. :^)
Alicia Thompson
z6a/b Ontario Canada
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Reiner Goebel
> I would like to start practicing this so would appreciate some hints.
OK, here is my hint:
Instead of learning about Photoshop, spend the time learning about
pruning, wiring and a few of the other basic skills. That's what results
in bonsai you can touch and feel. Virtual bonsai, in most cases, are
mere ficusments of someone's imagination; interesting, but totally
useless unless you know how to get there. Learn how to get there. Let
someone else do the virtuals. ;-)
> File your taxes online! Yahoo! Canada Tax Centre
Good idea! Don't come to me with your carton of unsorted receipts. ;-)
Reiner Goebel
Toronto, Canada
http://www.tbs.game2.com/
Jim Lewis
>
> > I would like to start practicing this so would appreciate
some hints.
>
And Reiner grumped:
> OK, here is my hint:
>
> Instead of learning about Photoshop, spend the time learning
about
> pruning, wiring and a few of the other basic skills. That's
what results
> in bonsai you can touch and feel. Virtual bonsai, in most
cases, are
> mere ficusments of someone's imagination; interesting, but
totally
> useless unless you know how to get there. Learn how to get
there. Let
> someone else do the virtuals. ;-)
And, also in something of a grumpy vein, I add:
Or, wait until next winter when you folks up north haven't
anything better to do -- bonsai-wise -- anyway.
And I maintain that rather than trying to learn Photoshop, or
whatever, via bonsai-list e-mail (NOT a very efficient way to do
it) you take a course offered (probably) by a local training firm
or even a community/junior/other college. It likely won't even
matter what software the course uses since the basics of all
these photo-manipulation tools seem quite similar. (Or, buy a
book.)
Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Noting for
posterity the rare occurrence of somewhat concurring opinions by
the two listowners. ;-)
Lynn Boyd
> >
> > > I would like to start practicing this so would appreciate
> some hints.
Alicia:
In the nature of IBC - here is another answer - we
can provide choices for you. :)
First, are you able to draw or sketch a tree with
some experience?
If you are then it is not asdifficult - but the medium is
different so takes practice - it is certainly not as easy as a
pencil or pen (for me, that is). The majority of virtuals you
see on the gallery, however, are developed from the jpg picture
of a real tree. It is part of your computer knowledge to open
your photo program and then open a jpg file of a tree. Once that
file has opened into a tree on the screen select the eraser from
the tool column and erase a foliage pad, or a branch - now
replace the eraser with the pencil tool, and try to replace them
with your drawing. If you can do that much you are on your way.
But, you must experiment a lot - like anything else it takes just
working at - and lots of study in the program manual.
Perhaps you already know that drawing a tree is a
study as serious as the study of human anatomy in art - only I
find trees have even more variety. Regardless of the jpg that
gets you going stop in your local art or craft store and pick up
a manual on tree sketching. You will love sketching trees in
nature - the best first step you could take - and then when the
virtual work begins you will be much freer to develop ideas I
think for having experienced nature drawing. Be aware constantly
as you look at trees of the elements of line and proportion in
trees - both in nature and bonsai.
This advice is no better than either Reiner's or Jim's
it is just different for different folks!
Take it slow and easy - and enjoy.
Lynn
Lynn Boyd, Oregon, USA
Jim Lewis
> I certainly see your point. I am reading lots about these
processes you list. My problem is two fold. First I have problems
seeing the hidden tree, actually I have problems seeing in
general. I have been close to legaly blind in my right eye since
I was very young. I can see almost 20/20 with glasses but since I
spent most of my life playing sports where glasses would have
been trashed I usually went without glasses(still do) as a result
I see trees as a trunk with foliage. I know there are branches
there but for me to figure out branch placement that will take a
lot of study. <
You might use this to your advantage. I find that when I'm
looking for a basic design it often helps to take off the specs
and look at that blurr. I see the shape, but not the details
>
> Jim- Winter would have been a good time for this I will rember
next winter. Anyways I am not trying to learn the program over
the list. I also own the book. I just was wondering what
route/tools people were using so I could focus my practice to
what has been proven to work.
>
1. Use what you have.
2. Use what you feel most confortable with.
Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - who stuck
with WordStar well into the Win95 era and still misses it over
the clumsy behemoths that pass as word processors these days.
Alan Walker
recommend one?
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
http://LCBSBonsai.org http://bonsai-bci.com
================================
> > Alicia Thompson wrote:
> > I would like to start practicing this so would appreciate
> some hints.
----------------------
Alicia:
In the nature of IBC - here is another answer - we
can provide choices for you. :)
First, are you able to draw or sketch a tree with
some experience?
Chriss Flagg
I bought "The Artistic Anatomy of Trees" Their Structure & Treatment in
Painting by Rex Vicat Cole
This is a Dover ISBN 0-486-21475-3
Suggested Price $9.95 USA
It has chapters on What to Look for in Trees, Balance, The Outline of a
Tree, etc..
I find it has help a little in learning to see what the tree really looks
like as well as what it can look like.
Chriss Flagg
Puyallup, WA
Lynn Boyd
Would you please
> recommend one?
> Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
Alan,
Yes, - with a qualification that it not be only "one"
:))
I believe you would like one probably a little more technically
supported than some with your experience, so first I would
recommend you look at _Drawing Nature_ by Stanley Maltzman.
Beyond just sketching this text-type book has wonderful photos,
covers details pointedly, ie, anchoring the trunk to the ground,
foreshortening the limbs, knotholes, groupings with
perspectives, clouds, foliage, specific notes on some barks, -
then, technically, shows types (styles) of drawing like
crosshatching, etc. It also covers some charcoal, sepia and
watercolor. The pictures are very good. Additionally is
something I think Should go along with it - that is some of the
domain of trees like grasses, rocks and forests - those things
that one needs for background because they are extremely helpful.
He does something on the tools - very useful, too.
This book is about 25.00
Title: _Drawing Nature_
ISBN 0-891334-579-5
Published by North Light Books
There are so many small paperback thin ones at craft stores
that belong in series put out by, for example, the TV painting
program artists that I cannot list them, but ordinary craft
stores that carry ample painting, drawing supplies carry them
nearly always around here and they will run about 3.99 each.
They differ in that if they are for painters the sketching I
think is not so good - line is prominent in sketching or drawing,
mass will be in painting, etc. But they are guides that might be
ample for some. It is worth a prowl. A University bookstore
should have drawing books with many pages devoted to trees and
nature. I prefer a student to use those because the tree has
surroundings and IF you are going to draw them why not give that
some consideration - the transfer of the technique is so simple
to make a cloud and your sketches may become as important to you
as a tree sometime.
THEN, a real dreamboat of books is something I can tell
you about and I own, purchased in Vancouver,BC, Canada at a
Chinese bookstore. There are two volumes of just trees, penjing
and bonsai, one book is decideous, the other is conifers. It
was done by artists for models (astoundingly nice stuff) and I
believe there are at least 1000 drawings in pencil or charcoal in
the two volumes. The writing is Chinese, except for a very good
history of penjing and bonsai at the front of the books - written
by, possibly, Wang, Zhi Ying and Zhao, Qing Quan. I cannot read
any more than those names who seem to be the sponsors or
collectors of material for this university publication. They
were published by the Tongji University Press. I believe they
say there were four volumes originally. In Canada the two
volumes cost me about 75.00. You'd love them! They are an
endless source of ideas and inspiration. Craig Hunt and I each
bought a set. They are 8 1/2x11 paperbacks, nicely done.
Titles _Shumu Penjing Models_
ISBN 7-5608-1201 -5/J.52
Lynn Boyd
Treatment in
> Painting by Rex Vicat Cole
> This is a Dover ISBN 0-486-21475-3
> Suggested Price $9.95 USA
> Chriss Flagg
> Puyallup, WA
> ------------------------------
I just caught this msg from Chriss. He mentions a good
source - I never underestimate Dover. I think I have seen this
and had it at one time.
Also, I recall the name of one of the artists who have
done large paper manuals for trees and they sell for 3-5
dollars, - primarily painter's guides, - Walter Foster.
Lynn
Jim Lewis
have
> done large paper manuals for trees and they sell for 3-5
> dollars, - primarily painter's guides, - Walter Foster.
He's put his name on EVRY kind of artist's sketching, painting,
etching, itching, etc. book you could imagine. I have often
wondered if he _really_ did the work, or just farmed out a
franchise to some of the "winners" of the "You CAN be an Artist!"
promotions on the backs of comic books.
The guy MUST be dead now, I bought one of his books (drawing
animals from nature, or something like that) back when I was a
pre-teen (!) and thought I had some kind of talent for something
artistic. HAH!
But, they (the ones I have seen, including the tree and nature
sketching books) do a good job in showing how to quickly sketch
the _essence_ of a tree or other subject. That, I think, is what
we want to be able to do when we design our trees.
That's why I like the Chinese brush paintings -- and would LOVE
to see that book that Lynn bought in Canada. My favorite used
book store -- Haslam's in St. Petersburg (Fla.) has an old book
on Penjing for sale for $40. The penjing themselves are nothing
to write home about, but it also is illustrated by some VERY nice
sketchy, silhouette-type, Chinese ink drawings of tree shapes.
So far I haven't considered it to be quite good enough to fork
over $40 for, though, so if one of you speeds down there and buys
it before I weaken, I'll no longer be tempted -- and won't be
angry. ;-)
Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Always a
cheapskate