Vikings and Tats...
Eric J. Wheelock
the Rus tribe (A Swedish "Viking" tribe that "founded" Russia). He mentioned
encountering them on the Volga and that they were "heavily tattooed". I
believe he mentions they were marked from their fingertips up! Has anyone
found any literary sources that mention "ritual" or "artistic" tattooing among
the Norsemen? I know the Viking and Celtic artwork (i.e. knotwork/animism) is
heavily influenced by one another so Celtic sources will work also. Thanks...
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Eric John Wheelock
sa...@onramp.net
"Bóna ná Coróin"
"We are always getting ready to
live, but never living"-Emerson
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Lee Thompson-Herbert
Eric J. Wheelock <sa...@onramp.net> wrote:
>I was recently reading about the Arab historian Ibn Fadlan and his accounts of
>the Rus tribe (A Swedish "Viking" tribe that "founded" Russia). He mentioned
>encountering them on the Volga and that they were "heavily tattooed". I
>believe he mentions they were marked from their fingertips up! Has anyone
>found any literary sources that mention "ritual" or "artistic" tattooing among
>the Norsemen? I know the Viking and Celtic artwork (i.e. knotwork/animism) is
>heavily influenced by one another so Celtic sources will work also. Thanks...
You might try looking up anything on the Scythians. They're the "Rus"
that Ibn Fadlan talks about. Scythian artwork shows similarities to
pre-Christian Celtic art. It's argued that the interlace/knotwork were
borrowed either from the Arabs or the Saxons. The spirals and animals
seem to be a part of Celtic art all over Europe.
--
Lee M.Thompson-Herbert l...@crl.com
Chaos Monger Real religions don't have trade secrets:
and read alt.religion.scientology
Jill-of-all-Trades Member, Knights of Xenu (1995) KD6WUR
joseph.j.de rosa
Eric J. Wheelock <sa...@onramp.net> wrote:
>I was recently reading about the Arab historian Ibn Fadlan and his accounts of
>the Rus tribe (A Swedish "Viking" tribe that "founded" Russia). He mentioned
>encountering them on the Volga and that they were "heavily tattooed". I
>believe he mentions they were marked from their fingertips up! Has anyone
>found any literary sources that mention "ritual" or "artistic" tattooing among
>the Norsemen? I know the Viking and Celtic artwork (i.e. knotwork/animism) is
>heavily influenced by one another so Celtic sources will work also. Thanks...
the story of Ibn Fadlan is a really great one. It describes his being
captured and sold into slavery (in the 1100's(?)),
and ending up in Northern Europe.
His experiences are documented in a translation of a discovered manuscript.
Except that it is a work of fiction.
It is titled "Eaters of the dead", and is written by Michael Crichton
(the author of "Jurassic Park", "Congo", and "The Andromeda Strain").
A fun read, but don't look for *too* much historical accuraccy.
Joe "and *another* one gets fooled" DeRosa
jde...@attmail.att.com
Birk Mackinnon
| ....He mentioned encountering them on the Volga and that they were
| "heavily tattooed". I believe he mentions they were marked from their
| fingertips up! Has anyone found any literary sources that mention
| "ritual" or "artistic" tattooing among the Norsemen?
| heavily influenced by one another so Celtic sources will work also.
Upon previous consultation with my viking expert he was unawares of ANY
references to tattooed vikings in period. As for the celts being tattooed
in the first millenium a.d. there are no unambigous references that I know
of. Of course the most famous is by Julius Caesar in his "Gallic Wars".
Unfortunately I am in the process of moving and can't get at my info on
the subject. As for britons being tattooed at all, there is the Lindow
Man who was examined and his tattoos were found to be of copper based
inks. Thus his tattos probably were either blue or green which would fit
in with Caesar's description of them (which was called them 'glass-coloured'
which was both blue and green in this period of the roman era).
Or are you looking for artistic references so that you can create your
own designs?
--
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| "No fight, no blame" - Lao Tsu "No woman, no cry" - Bob Marley |
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Jonathan Sumby
>I was recently reading about the Arab historian Ibn Fadlan and his accounts of
Were you reading the original Ibn Fadlan or the fictionalised version
"Eaters of the Dead"?
>found any literary sources that mention "ritual" or "artistic" tattooing among
>the Norsemen?
No, I have found what I call fleeting references but no authority or text
I have read explicitly refers to tattoos or tattooing. It is unlikely
that the Vikings were unaware or did not get tattoos as to whether it was
a part of their culture is a different thing. Remember the sagas were
written by a Christianised Icelander and where also translated by a
culture that doesn't approve of tats.
I remember a debate going on in the journal of the Viking Society
for Northern Research over relating I think (have to check back in my files!)
to a Viking getting the "bloodeagle" in England. To me the stanza could
be interpreted as a tattoo but the main contention seemed to be an
ignominious form of execution versus not.
Jon
Birk Mackinnon
| Might want to check at some of the Society For Creative Anacronism web
| sites. They're a group that studies and recreates the middle ages and
| rennaisance. Post a question and I garentee you'll get replies.
I'm SCA and my personal research (when I have time) has been in the lines
of medieval tattooing and 'body-painting'. I have checked with several
people whose expertise is in viking culture and none of them has heard
of any legitimate references that describes vikings as having any type
of tattoos. But the thing to remember is that the vikings were not a
highly literary culture, and when they did mark things down it was short
and concise and lacking in insigificant details (such as body art).
Birk Mackinnon
| Might want to check at some of the Society For Creative Anacronism web
| sites. They're a group that studies and recreates the middle ages and
| rennaisance. Post a question and I garentee you'll get replies.
Here's a link to a viking site. I haven't explored it, so I can't say
anything about what you might (or might not) find there.
<a href="http://www.demon.co.uk/history/index.html">The World of the Vikings</a>
You might also want to read rec.org.sca and see if you can info from them
there. But I warn you that it is a high traffic news group.
Jonathan Sumby
bloodeagle, but the person who debated against its existance.
If anyone is interested, try contacting Professor Roberta Frank at the
Uni. of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario
If anything comes of any enquiry I would be pleased if the info could be
emailed to me! Especially if any tattoing or bodmod practises surface...
Jon
boy brent
joseph.j.de rosa <so...@cbnews.cb.att.com> wrote:
:Except that Crichton is writing a *novel* in this case.
:So he has even *less* incentive to be accurate than Herodotus:
:he has to be entertaining.
Herodotus wrote his book as entertainment. You've got to
remember, he wrote the *first* history book in the Western
world; nobody had ever thought to write it all down before.
That meant he had to write something that would sell, a
sort of Jaqueline-Susann-meets-Sir-Kenneth-Clarke potboiler.
It would be another 40 years or so before Thucydides came
along and perfected the modern approach of making history
deadly dull with his _History of the Peloponnesian War_ --
an incredibly grim book with has the additional virtue of
never having been finished. It just abruptly stops in 411 BCE,
with a full six years left to go in the war. i just plodded
through that one. *whew*
Anyway, back to Herodotus. His style is very chatty, his
subject matter is of pivotal importance in ancient Greek history,
and best of all, he doesn't leave you guessing about critical
parts of the story. If he doesn't know, he just makes it up
as he goes along. It was Herodotus who gave us the famous
quotes:
There is nothing in the world which travels faster than
these Persian couriers. [...] Neither snow, nor rain,
nor heat, nor gloom of night can delay these couriers from
their appointed rounds.
Book VIII, 98
Or this one about the epitath of the 300 at Thermopylae:
Go tell the Spartans, you who read:
We took their orders, and are dead.
Book VII, 227
If you don't want to wade through the whole of Herodotus, i
recommend Larry Gronick's _Cartoon History of the Universe_
Volume I and II. Part of Volume I retells most of Herodotus,
and it's a fun read (although Gronick makes some howling mistakes
in his plot summary of _The Iliad_).
:Joe "I'm suprised that *brent* hasn't killfiled me yet" DeRosa
i don't care what anybody else thinks: i *like* Joe.
--
boy brent |
bca...@cse.ogi.edu |
Eric J. Wheelock
mentioned something about "The Lotus Eaters" by Crichton? I wasn't basing my
questions on fiction but on any *factual* evidence anyone had found about
Vikings using body alteration. I "personally" believe they did. When I
was refering to Ibn Fadlan I remember it *was not* in a Michael Crichton book
but a book on Vikings from the college library I was using for a paper. They
travelled as far as Siberia, Greece, and the Middle East so I figured *some*
account of their customs would be saved.
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Eric John Wheelock
sa...@onramp.net