Why SM is dangerous
Jdgmntcity
not fishing for flames. I simply want to express an opinion, and since
this IS a discussion group, generate debate. The reason SM is dangerous
is because it represents an anime that is 1.Not well animated 2.Not well
translated 3.Not well directed 4. Not evoking any emotions above the level
of "gee-whiz isn't it trendy that I'm watching this show that is aimed at
12-year olds"and 5. EXTREMELY POPULAR. By showing the industry that this
type of product is marketable AND well-recieved, they will thereby respond
by releasing even more hackneyed, archetypical shit on our shores, and the
great stuff like Miyazaki and FSS will never be released, because it is
more lucrative to put out the same old shit. UY started the whole thing,
basically, and ever since then few anime have been able to match it's
quality and originality (within the genre). I know everybody thinks it's
cool to like something bad (i.e. speed racer), but the problem is, some
people actually think SM is good, and even those that like it for it's
unique charm rather than it's quality are contributing to a bad image of
anime. With this type of programming becoming popular, the stereotype of
anime will quickly be decided by the mass media - anime is either really
violent shit, or shit that involves Teenage girls fighting heinous crimes
in basically the same episode recycled over and over ad infinitum, with
names, places, and plot conveniences changed so that, to the eye of most
undiscerning viewers, every episode is different! Are we sheep? Are we
that blind to triteness and the vices of unoriginal minds? Sailor Moon is
the Romance novel of anime, in that you can tune in to any episode and not
have missed anything. Danielle Steel would be proud - Kurt Vonnegut would
foam at the mouth and Hemingway spit on the ground. What I'm saying here
is that America's biggest problem, entertainment-wise, is the crap that we
lap up that Hollywood emits every other month - sequels, or anything with
an Action Movie Star in it. Once in a while a film like the Piano,
Silence of the Lambs, or Pulp Fiction comes along, but for the most part,
we spend the greater part of our time encouraging the production of mass
produced bile (that, incidentally, other countries seem to like too).
Taste is subjective, but there is so much anime that hasn't yet come over
that is soooo better than SM that I don't see why it should be so popular,
even if it is on mainstream TV. And, by the way, everybody knows Sailor
Mercury is the coolest :)
-This has been a public service announcement fromThe Tyranny of
Evil Men
TReed10
one by one. You don't like "Sailor Moon" because, as you say, it is anime
that is...
1.Not well animated
2.Not well translated.
3.Not well directed.
4. Not evoking any emotions above the level
of "gee-whiz isn't it trendy that I'm watching this show that is aimed at
And 5. EXTREMELY POPULAR.
One through four...could be said about many of the anime productions
people have fallen in love with. Sorry, gang! But following Sturgeon's
Law, there is bound to be a preponderance of ordinary stuff. Some people
are buying any series with a giant mecha on it, even "Mobile Suit Cheese
Ball Fly Wax", and claiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
Five...well, are you arguing agains popularity? Some people do, after all.
Certain critics of popular arts say that if an artist or a production
reaches a certain level of success, it changes from being The Cult
Phenomenon That I And My Sophisticated Buddies Discovered...into Common
Crap for the Illiterate Masses.
I don't dispute your arguments about the quality of the series at all. But
the fact is that something will have to open the door for anime in this
country. If it happens to be something for adolescent girls, that doesn't
have any moral sense beyond those of an Afterschool Special, so be it.
Once there's more stuff available to American audiences, they will be able
to discern the wheat from the chaff.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading your statement to mean that you
are A Protector of the Purity of Anime. Hate to bust your bubble, but
anime is just as much mass culture as "The Littlest Pet Shop" and "Tiny
Toon Adventures." Just because it's mass culture for a different culture
doesn't automatically make it any better, just as British rock 'n' roll
isn't intrinsically superior to American. (Especially since the Brits got
the music from us in the first place.)
If you like art films, fine. But don't confuse your love of anime as an
automatic sign of cultural superiority. And one final thing; H.L. Mendkin
was wrong. You CAN lose money by underestimating the taste of the American
people. One of the biggest crank-em-out action stars of recent history was
Bruce Willis. Soon, he'll be reduced to opening supermarkets in Peoria.
And look at Stallone - outside of shilling his overpriced burger barn,
does anyone pretend he is a moneymaking star?
In other words, the public may not be as smart as you'd like. But they
aren't as dumb as you think, either.
---------------------------------------------------
Thomas E. Reed:AOL [TReed10], CompuServe[72337,234]
For good gaming in January 1996, contact me about
SunQuest '96 - Florida at great prices!
Shawn Hagen
: Taste is subjective, but there is so much anime that hasn't yet come over
: that is soooo better than SM that I don't see why it should be so popular,
: even if it is on mainstream TV. And, by the way, everybody knows Sailor
: Mercury is the coolest :)
Hmmm, I just spent five months living in Japan, I'm back in Canada for
Christmas, and I've caught a few epsisodes of the North American Sailor
Moon, man, I thought Sailor Moon Supers was stupid, haven't watched that
one in a long time, not when Ray Earth, Yuyu Hakusho, Street Fighter and
Genki TV were on to keep me ammused (side note, Japanese TV is cruel and
funny, watching a mother ditch her three or four year old kid then watch
from a couple of blocks away with binos as a camerman follows the
screaming kid was, well different) Anyway, watching the NA Sailor Moon
made me hip to one thing that the producers must of thought. North
Americans are terrified of anything different from their culture.
If that's true then it doesn't really matter what you bring over, it
may very well not survive the translation process.
Shawn Hagen
Ken Arromdee
Jdgmntcity <jdgmn...@aol.com> wrote:
>Are we sheep? Are we
>that blind to triteness and the vices of unoriginal minds? Sailor Moon is
>the Romance novel of anime, in that you can tune in to any episode and not
>have missed anything.
To which I reply, have you ever _watched_ the show? More than one episode?
--
Ken Arromdee (arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, karr...@nyx.cs.du.edu;
http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~arromdee)
"Any creature who would disguise itself as a bone, obviously has no sense of
fair play!" -- Superboy Annual #1
Ben Cantrick (alias Macky Stingray)
Ken Arromdee <arro...@peregrine.cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <4bfi3r$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>Jdgmntcity <jdgmn...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Are we sheep? Are we
>>that blind to triteness and the vices of unoriginal minds? Sailor Moon is
>>the Romance novel of anime, in that you can tune in to any episode and not
>>have missed anything.
>
>To which I reply, have you ever _watched_ the show? More than one episode?
Yes, and yes. And I still agree with Judgementcity... the vast majority
(I doubt all, but probably over 75%) of the people who watch Sailor
Moon watch it because they're sheep.
<Baaaaah!>
-Ben
--
"BGC: Because some of us believe women over 14 are still sexy."
=--------- http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~cantrick/home.html -------------=
*Ben Cantrick, diehard BGC otaku and Priss fan. ---> THE BGC DUBS SUCK! <---*
*Why Mac? "When I want to spend 50% of my time fighting an OS, I'll use VMS."*
Ken Arromdee
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading your statement to mean that you
>are A Protector of the Purity of Anime. Hate to bust your bubble, but
>anime is just as much mass culture as "The Littlest Pet Shop" and "Tiny
>Toon Adventures." Just because it's mass culture for a different culture
>doesn't automatically make it any better, just as British rock 'n' roll
>isn't intrinsically superior to American. (Especially since the Brits got
>the music from us in the first place.)
However, the Japanese seem to have a different idea of what is suitable for
children than Americans. _That's_ what makes it better. They can do stuff
that just wouldn't be allowed here--notice that the dub has to censor even
though it's already a kids' show?
Charles Hagmaier
> Yes, and yes. And I still agree with Judgementcity... the vast majority
>(I doubt all, but probably over 75%) of the people who watch Sailor
>Moon watch it because they're sheep.
H_H
Really, I don't understand this underlying stratum of certain
parts of otakudom, that demands that their anime be solemn, substansial,
or illuminating. It's like objecting to popcorn because it possesses
no nutritional value. SM is like popcorn: you got your buttery taste,
yer mixture of soft and crunchy, and it eats up time in an amusing
fashion. What else can you ask of popcorn?
Mitch Hagmaier
Quest Labs Department of Gastronomic Honesty
Geoffrey Scott
: Hmmm, I just spent five months living in Japan, I'm back in Canada for
: Christmas, and I've caught a few epsisodes of the North American Sailor
: Moon, man, I thought Sailor Moon Supers was stupid, haven't watched that
: one in a long time, not when Ray Earth, Yuyu Hakusho, Street Fighter and
: Genki TV were on to keep me ammused (side note, Japanese TV is cruel and
: funny, watching a mother ditch her three or four year old kid then watch
: from a couple of blocks away with binos as a camerman follows the
: screaming kid was, well different) Anyway, watching the NA Sailor Moon
: made me hip to one thing that the producers must of thought. North
: Americans are terrified of anything different from their culture.
That's the theroy, and what the people in charge at everything from the
TV networks to the companies that bring the anime over here to Bandai
think. But the theroy is incorrect. American kids CAN and WILL stomach
foreign cultures, if given the chance. The proof is one word long.
SANRIO.
I was in a Sanrio Surprises store (at the Galleria at Tyler in Riverside,
CA), looking for Christmas presents, and I noticed a few things. Sanrio
made no attempt to hide the fact that this stuff was Japanese. Many of
the packages were completely or mostly in Japanese. There was
Japanese-language Sanrio anime on the TV screen, with a stack of the
original Japanese tapes behind the counter (with a bigger stack of the
English-langauge versions, of course). The store was doing a booming
mutli-racial business.
Geo
Ben Cantrick (alias Macky Stingray)
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised.
>H_H
Well, some people watch it for that too, in which case I can't
really fault them. ;]
>Really, I don't understand this underlying stratum of certain
>parts of otakudom, that demands that their anime be solemn, substansial,
>or illuminating. It's like objecting to popcorn because it possesses
>no nutritional value. SM is like popcorn: you got your buttery taste,
>yer mixture of soft and crunchy, and it eats up time in an amusing
>fashion. What else can you ask of popcorn?
Let's just say that some of us, while perfectly capable of eating
pop-corn, prefer yogurt-raisins for our snacking. Not that there's
anything inherently wrong or bad about popcorn; we don't like it as
much as other stuff.
Why are you debating this rationally? The whole idea of the thread
is to be as silly as possible! <G>
Nick Bousman
episode?
>
majority
>(I doubt all, but probably over 75%) of the people who watch Sailor
>Moon watch it because they're sheep.
> -Ben
Try speaking about things you know Ben. Well you might be right, and I
can't speak for other people, but I know I watch Sailor Moon because I
like it.
NOT because I'm a sheep
NOT because it was plugged on TV or in the media
I turned on the TV one day, I liked the show. I now watch it often.
Doesn't make me a sheep.
(Well I can speak for myself and a few friends who also watch it.)
Mike Sprague
-> I know this show has a lot of fans, so I'll start out by saying I'm
-> not fishing for flames. I simply want to express an opinion, and
-> since this IS a discussion group, generate debate. The reason SM is
-> dangerous is because it represents an anime that is 1.Not well
-> animated 2.Not well translated 3.Not well directed 4. Not evoking any
-> emotions above the level of "gee-whiz isn't it trendy that I'm
-> watching this show that is aimed at 12-year olds"and 5. EXTREMELY
-> POPULAR.
[... Reasons SM is bad news snipped]
Well, a lot of that seemed to be more your personal opinion
than anything else. IMHO Sailor Moon has a lot more to it than
just the same episode recycled ad infinitum, and the animation
isn't that bad. (In fact, in some instances, Mercury's "Shining
Aqua Illusion", for instance, it's pretty damn impressive.)
I also really ought to go after your statement about it "not
evoking any emotions", but you're entitled to your opinion, and
I have to state the REAL reason that Sailor Moon is dangerous.
The answer? Sheer addictiveness.
I know that this is often joked about, but quite seriously,
the addictive properties of Sailor Moon have become more and
more evident since it's appearance on US TV. People who used to
condemn the show and declare their hate for it in public become
huge fans of it, and that's common.
But when someone who's main claim to fame is wanting to kill
obsessive drooling fanboys then turns around and starts a "who
is the best Sailor" poll ...
... Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I give jdgmn...@aol.com two weeks before he, too, is
hopelessly addicted to Sailor Moon. It really is an unstoppable
force. :)
- MS
Dutta
On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, Mike Sprague wrote:
> The answer? Sheer addictiveness.
>
> I know that this is often joked about, but quite seriously,
> the addictive properties of Sailor Moon have become more and
> more evident since it's appearance on US TV. People who used to
> condemn the show and declare their hate for it in public become
> huge fans of it, and that's common.
> But when someone who's main claim to fame is wanting to kill
> obsessive drooling fanboys then turns around and starts a "who
> is the best Sailor" poll ...
> ... Be afraid. Be very afraid.
he he. When I first saw Sailor Moon I thought it sucked big time, but I
did watch it from time to time, usually switching to it on commercials
while watching Gargoyles, before I know it I started to like it a little,
then I started liking it more and more, and now it's probably my
favourite show on TV, it's as bad as cigarettes :).
Sea Wasp
Dutta <y3...@unb.ca> wrote:
And then there's my own case. ("My name is Sea Wasp... and I'm
a Sailor Moonie!")
I first watched this after hearing about it on the Net. I gritted
my teeth and watched 8 episodes of it. I thought it was the worst piece
of trash I'd ever seen. I proceeded to get on the Net and write a
sneering, devastating dissection of the show (entitled "Sailor Loon").
But... I couldn't quite... get that music played during her
transformation sequence out of my head. And there were a few more
episodes around. And my wife said we might as well watch the rest of
them.
Then I found myself in the horrid situation described in one of
Conty's .sigs:
"Hey, you're humming the Sailor Moon OP!"
"Huh? Oh, yeah, you're right.... OH MY GOD!"
I started thinking that Tuxedo Kamen was cool. And maybe Usagi
wasn't as ugly as I thought. And Rei-chan looked kinda cute...
...And, you know, the relationships between the characters really
were more complex than I'd given them credit for...
...And here I am, at Christmas, overjoyed because my wife got me
Sailor Senshi dolls.
The truth? Sailor Moon is actually the Dark Kingdom's plot. It's
sucking out our life force, all the while warning us about such insidious
evils and allowing Queen Beryl to laugh her head off at how stupid we
all are. Our brains are slowly dissolving.
We are the Senshi. Resistance is Futile. Your brain will be
Assimilated. OSHOKIYO!
MEHA! KAMEH Sera-Fuku Bishonen Senshi
EHA AME Sailor Wasp
M ^@_____@^ H Sailor Suited Beautiful
"Trust me. A / / Sea \ \ A Box-Jelly Warrior
You don't have K / / Wasp \ \ !
much choice!" T ; /_________\ ; ! "For Love and Justice,
' ;|;;|;;|; N my .sig will give you
X | | | I a spanking!"
EDO ; ; ; D Z
KAMEN NEBLO Keeper of the Saint Seiya FAQ
Jubei
> And then there's my own case. ("My name is Sea Wasp... and I'm
>a Sailor Moonie!")
My name is Jubei, and I became a Sailor Moonie after Jupiter appeared.
I saw the first showing of Sailor Moon on Fox. My first thought:
this isn't bad, but I'm not gonna' tape it every day. After that
Jupiter episode, I said to myself: This ain't bad! Since everyone
on the net is always talking about it, I might as well join them.
And that's how it all began.
> I first watched this after hearing about it on the Net. I gritted
>my teeth and watched 8 episodes of it. I thought it was the worst piece
>of trash I'd ever seen. I proceeded to get on the Net and write a
>sneering, devastating dissection of the show (entitled "Sailor Loon").
I've seen a LOT of people who converted to Sailor Moon started out as
Anti-Sailor Moon fanatics. It's great to read in one of their posts:
"It happened. I became a Sailor Moonie!"
> But... I couldn't quite... get that music played during her
>transformation sequence out of my head. And there were a few more
>episodes around. And my wife said we might as well watch the rest of
>them.
I didn't pay attention to the music since I was constantly wondering
why those big sweat drops keep appearing. ^_^
> Then I found myself in the horrid situation described in one of
>Conty's .sigs:
>
> "Hey, you're humming the Sailor Moon OP!"
> "Huh? Oh, yeah, you're right.... OH MY GOD!"
>
> I started thinking that Tuxedo Kamen was cool. And maybe Usagi
>wasn't as ugly as I thought. And Rei-chan looked kinda cute...
Their looks never bothered me. That reminds me, another reason why
I converted to Sailor Moon was because my Favorite VA was doing
Sailor Mars' voice in the original. From there on, I was biased
towards Sailor Mars.
> ...And, you know, the relationships between the characters really
>were more complex than I'd given them credit for...
You're telling me. The majority of the threads here at RAA is
about the Senshi's personalities.
> ...And here I am, at Christmas, overjoyed because my wife got me
>Sailor Senshi dolls.
On Christmas Eve, I went to Toys'R'Us in search of Sailor Moon dolls
for a friend(male friend) of mine. He loves Sailor Mars, and so
do most of the other guys at school. Yes, they are perverts.
At Toys'R'us, I could not find any Sailor Moon dolls. They were
probably sold out or something.
> The truth? Sailor Moon is actually the Dark Kingdom's plot. It's
>sucking out our life force, all the while warning us about such insidious
>evils and allowing Queen Beryl to laugh her head off at how stupid we
>all are. Our brains are slowly dissolving.
When I first read that statement above, a picture of the Saban logo
flashed before my eyes. Too bad that the Power Rangers didn't grab
as many older people as Sailor Moon did. HAHA! Saban sucks! In
my next fanfic(part 3 of the series), Haim Saban DIES!!!!
Hmm. Sounds like a fanfic idea to me. Any takers?
> We are the Senshi. Resistance is Futile. Your brain will be
>Assimilated. OSHOKIYO!
Sailor Jubei speech: In the name of Jubei! I will assimilate you! ^_^
> MEHA! KAMEH Sera-Fuku Bishonen Senshi
> EHA AME Sailor Wasp
> M ^@_____@^ H Sailor Suited Beautiful
> "Trust me. A / / Sea \ \ A Box-Jelly Warrior
>You don't have K / / Wasp \ \ !
> much choice!" T ; /_________\ ; ! "For Love and Justice,
> ' ;|;;|;;|; N my .sig will give you
> X | | | I a spanking!"
> EDO ; ; ; D Z
> KAMEN NEBLO Keeper of the Saint Seiya FAQ
>
>
--
*Super-Dimensional Fortress Macross**Bubblegum Crisis**Sailor Moon*
____________________________________________________________________
It's time once again for Sailor Jubei Says.
Jubei Says: Sailor Mars RULES!!!!
Visit The Super-Dimensional Homepage at:
http://www.geopages.com/Tokyo/2109/
http://members.aol.com/kakizake/
____________________________________________________________________
*Gunbuster**Linna Yamazaki**Hino Rei/Sailor Mars**Haruhiko Mikimoto*
mkel...@ix.netcom.com
speeches, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm abnormal. I liked it from the
beginning. Hey, I started watching it because of those stupid
commercials for the toys <g>. Saw a few clips of the show, thought,
"those drawings look cool", decided to watch it. I've always liked
anime style drawings, but that just drew me in. (I started taping it
ASAP just because it's on too early for me to watch it otherwise--I
kept taping it because I like it.)
No, what kept me in was the show itself. It wasn't always the same.
There are some shows with great drawings yet the characters always stay
the same...where's the fun in that? I mean, take Serena/Usagi. In the
beginning (of the original series) she's absolutely petrified of
everything (bad, that is) and doesn't want to fight) However, as the
series progresses, and the others join her she becomes braver, knowing
(I guess) that she isn't alone and she *can* do it. It's subtle, and
it's never said (Sailor Says excluded) but it's there.
Some might argue about personal "flaws" in the characters. But I think
that just makes them more realistic. I mean, if everybody was the same
it would be like...<shudder>...Power Rangers!!! Ugh!
Well, I'm kinda rambling, so I'll leave. Hope Haim Saban's death is a
painful and fun one, Jubei!!! <g>
--Marie
Jdgmntcity
in reference to any of us anti-moonies becoming hooked on SM:
Everyone knows crap is addictive, look at the millions that fawn over
Hootie and the Blowfish. It takes a brain (A most vital element some
people lack) to appreciate something more challenging. Taste is always
subjective, yes, but then how, in genres like art and live-action movies,
do so many people come to a consensus of what is good and what is bad in
an educated manner? Easy, the piece of work in question must be of
quality, which SM COULD arguably possess (arguably indeed), and must be
significantly original or unique in a way that, like a stone thrown into
water, sends ripples and repercussions throughout the industry. Uh-Oh - I
don't think SM fits that last criteria!! How many shows have followed
this story archetype? I don't have that many fingers and I don't feel
like adding them up, but lemme tell you, Large Quantities man, Large
Quantities. And some of the shows in the "domestic animated sit-com with
various demons and superpowers" genre atleast have a different look, like
tenchi. No such innovations for SM. I do not plan to become "addicted"
to SM (sailor Moon, that is) anytime in the future, thank you very much.
I maintain that it is not "elitist" to be able to intelligently defend
your own likes and dislikes, and to condemn and criticize logically
others' tastes. And I will strike down upon thee with Great Vengeance
those that try to maintain that Sailor Moon is good, and you will know,
when I crush the head of a SM doll and burn the hair off, that my name is
the lord!!
This has been yet another public service announcement from the Tyranny of
Evil Men.
Jubei
>No, what kept me in was the show itself. It wasn't always the same.
>There are some shows with great drawings yet the characters always stay
>the same...where's the fun in that? I mean, take Serena/Usagi. In the
>beginning (of the original series) she's absolutely petrified of
>everything (bad, that is) and doesn't want to fight) However, as the
>series progresses, and the others join her she becomes braver, knowing
>(I guess) that she isn't alone and she *can* do it. It's subtle, and
>it's never said (Sailor Says excluded) but it's there.
That's what makes Sailor Moon interesting. People think that it's
always the same thing over and over again, yet the changes in these
characters are so dramatic that it becomes obvious, yet the blind
can't see it. That truly is a shame.
>Some might argue about personal "flaws" in the characters. But I think
>that just makes them more realistic. I mean, if everybody was the same
>it would be like...<shudder>...Power Rangers!!! Ugh!
Excellent point Marie! I love Sailor Mars because of her realistic
bitchiness. People get tired of every character being so perfect,
like those weak Power Rangers(I'm glad that I killed them twice! ^_^).
I guess that the Perfect Sailor argument ends here.
>Well, I'm kinda rambling, so I'll leave. Hope Haim Saban's death is a
>painful and fun one, Jubei!!! <g>
It sure will be! I'll devote at least 5 pages to the fight between the
Senshi and Saban himself. I won't give out any more spoilers other
than this: Masked Rider will die and so will Saban. I probably
won't have the story finished until March of next year, around the
same time as Macross Plus 4 will be released.
*Shameless plug: read my fanfics! Check out my webpage for them!*
Sailor Moon vs. The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers
Sailor Moon vs. The VR Troopers
Sailor Moon vs. Saban(coming soon)
Be careful though, contains a lot of graphic stuff and foul language.
Rated NC-17 by me.
>--Marie
Dutta
On 26 Dec 1995, Jubei wrote:
> Excellent point Marie! I love Sailor Mars because of her realistic
> bitchiness. People get tired of every character being so perfect,
> like those weak Power Rangers(I'm glad that I killed them twice! ^_^).
> I guess that the Perfect Sailor argument ends here.
>
Well Ami comes pretty damn close to perfection (bows to applause from Ami
fans), but that's what makes boring IMO (running of the stage REAL
fast :). Personally my favourite scout is Sailor Moon because she is so
flawed, and changes in her personality overall seem the most appararent
as the show goes on, probably cause she has a LOT of growing left to do.
Anyone else feel that way, or is it just me?
peter lane
: not fishing for flames.
Just a note that I'm not trying to give you one, I just want to make a
couple points as well.... Just hang in there through my comments, and my
real point will shine through. ^_^
: 1.Not well animated
I agree that Sailor Moon may not be a superiorly animated show, but I for
one can see it being any worse that half of the other stuff out there.
Shoujo stuff in general certainly won't win against some high flying
mecha shooter show, or even something from Gainax or Fujishima (yes I
know he's shoujo ^_^). But you can't let animation ruin the enjoyment of
something like Akazukin ChaCha or Goldfish Warning or even Sailor Moon,
which is one of the better done shoujo series.
4. Not evoking any emotions above the level of "gee-whiz isn't it trendy
that I'm watching this show that is aimed a 12-year olds"
That's just wrong... To most eyes, SM, and any other shoujo would be
tacky, stupid, and hoplessly romantic. It is. But to say it evokes NO
emotion is wrong. I was just watching the "death" episodes from the
first series and found myself really moved. (not the DIC versions ^_^)
I agree that the DIC versions are indeed very "valleygirlish" but it
still has some powerfull moments, as displayed by the responce to the
same episodes mentioned above in English. Everyone wanted to get "My
Only Love" and many of my friends expressed that they were moved even
though it was butchered.
: anime will quickly be decided by the mass media - anime is either really
: violent shit, or shit that involves Teenage girls fighting heinous crimes
: in basically the same episode recycled over and over ad infinitum, with
: names, places, and plot conveniences changed so that, to the eye of most
: undiscerning viewers, every episode is different!
Hmmm... look at most anime out there. Rayearth and Pizza Cats are
comming to the USA next year. Sailor Moon is a nice break from those
stinking naughty tentical movies that everyone races to see. I talk to
someone how has never seen anime, and they heard about Urotsukidoji before
anything else because of the exposure at corner video stores. You can
find any thing to gripe about in anime, but there is always something to
counter the weight. That's why it's so nice of a genre.
I'm just defending my beloved shoujo, cause I adore it for the exact same
reasons you don't. I would love nothing more than for the networks to
show Nausicca uncut and subbed as the moviw of he week. But untill then,
I don't think you could blame DIC for picking the most obviously popular
series to show in a reletively unexposed country.
Here's my suggestion to you....
Start a club (or a mafia) and educate people. My club started out as
25-30 "can we watch something bloody" kinds of people, into now very
educated genre-wise to anime. They coo'ed with joy after watching
Laputa, they rolled on the floor watching Chacha, they oo'd and aah'd at
Macross Plus. That's what I did, because I was afraid of the very same
thing you were guys. Now I am happy that I am making a very small
differance to a group of people who otherwise may have brought their
girlfriends/boyfriends to Dumb and Dumber rather than Wings Of The
Honneamise at the video store.
KNeko ^_^
mkel...@ix.netcom.com
>Ami fans),
Some might call Ami weak, but I think that's just plain stupid. As she
(in the dub) said "My brain is my most lethal weapon" not too sure what
the original was--and she did defeat Tuxedo Kamen when nobody else
could--not by directly attacking him, but by tricking him. That's gotta
be good!
>but that's what makes boring IMO (running of the stage REAL fast :).
>Personally my favourite scout is Sailor Moon because she is so flawed,
>and changes in her personality overall seem the most appararent as the
>show goes on, probably cause she has a LOT of growing left to do.
>Anyone else feel that way, or is it just me?
I agree that Serena/Usagi has matured a lot but she's still rather
immature. Still, it's amazing how realistic these characters are. I
feel sorry for those people who just see the short skirts and watch one
episode and judge the whole show.
--Marie, who the more she watches this show, the more she realizes that
she *doesn't* have a favorite Senshi, totally--she likes them all (with
the exception of Chibi-Moon)
David Morton
fan for 15 years and I thought it would never happen to me, but it has:
I've fallen in love with a @%!$ cartoon character! And it's not even
somebody cool with a big sword and a skimpy costume, it's Ami-chan!
I won't be really worried though, unless I start losing interest in
giant robots.
David Morton dmo...@locke.ccil.org
who, unfortunately, already had a life when he discovered anime.
Tomar
>sea...@wizvax.wizvax.net (Sea Wasp) wrote:
[stuff cut]
>> Then I found myself in the horrid situation described in one of
>>Conty's .sigs:
>>
>> "Hey, you're humming the Sailor Moon OP!"
>> "Huh? Oh, yeah, you're right.... OH MY GOD!"
>>
>> I started thinking that Tuxedo Kamen was cool. And maybe Usagi
>>wasn't as ugly as I thought. And Rei-chan looked kinda cute...
>
>Their looks never bothered me. That reminds me, another reason why
>I converted to Sailor Moon was because my Favorite VA was doing
>Sailor Mars' voice in the original. From there on, I was biased
>towards Sailor Mars.
Are you taling about Tomizawa Michie?
Anyways, Urban Legend says that you should sing the Sailor Moon Op
Theme in certain sections of Souther California. Bad things start
to happen if you do. ^_^;;;;
>> ...And, you know, the relationships between the characters really
>>were more complex than I'd given them credit for...
>
>You're telling me. The majority of the threads here at RAA is
>about the Senshi's personalities.
It's kind of overboard these days. Thank Goddess for threading news
readers. ^_^
>> ...And here I am, at Christmas, overjoyed because my wife got me
>>Sailor Senshi dolls.
>
>On Christmas Eve, I went to Toys'R'Us in search of Sailor Moon dolls
>for a friend(male friend) of mine. He loves Sailor Mars, and so
>do most of the other guys at school. Yes, they are perverts.
>At Toys'R'us, I could not find any Sailor Moon dolls. They were
>probably sold out or something.
Hmmm...something is amiss.
I went home for a couple of days for Christmas. Not taking any chances,
I dragged all the SM back with me. I scowered the TV looking
for NA Sailor Moon to no avail. As far as I can tell, Omaha
is Sailor Moon-less as well as Des Moines. -_- When the time
came to do Christmas shopping, I went to Omaha and Council Bluffs
and hit the Malls/Stores over there. Much to the chagrin of those
with me, I tried to stop in every store that carried toys looking
for Sailor Moon stuff to show my friends and family that I wasn't
complete insane. @_@ Man....it was slim pickings. I don't remember finding
any Sailor Moon in Kay Bee nor any other Mall Stores. I remember finding
a couple of items in Target and K-mart, but usually, they only had a
couple of things and usually only Sailor Venus. Even at the Toys-R-Us,
they were small on the Sailor Moon merchandise, although they did
have a larger 14"+ Sailor Venus there. *sigh* -_-
So, with the lack of TV coverage and the lack of merchandise, this
part of the country seems to be out of luck for Sailor Moon stuff.
The only bright spot of my vacation is that I happen to tune into
Dateline as they were showing the NA Sailor Moon stuff.
>> The truth? Sailor Moon is actually the Dark Kingdom's plot. It's
>>sucking out our life force, all the while warning us about such insidious
>>evils and allowing Queen Beryl to laugh her head off at how stupid we
>>all are. Our brains are slowly dissolving.
>
>When I first read that statement above, a picture of the Saban logo
>flashed before my eyes. Too bad that the Power Rangers didn't grab
>as many older people as Sailor Moon did. HAHA! Saban sucks! In
>my next fanfic(part 3 of the series), Haim Saban DIES!!!!
>
>Hmm. Sounds like a fanfic idea to me. Any takers?
That's an old claim! It's a perfect plot...people waking up at
5:00 to watch a TV show and immediately passing out afterwards.
Of course they seem tired. It's 5:00 AM for the love of Goddess!
Or is it.... ^_^;;;
>> We are the Senshi. Resistance is Futile. Your brain will be
>>Assimilated. OSHOKIYO!
>
>Sailor Jubei speech: In the name of Jubei! I will assimilate you! ^_^
The Chruch of the Overcute is strong these days with many new
followers... ^_^
--
Tomar: aka to...@iastate.edu
The Return: <http://helser14.res.iastate.edu/tomar/anime/anime.html>
<http://129.186.76.14/tomar/anime/anime.html>
General observation about Anime...
"Cuteness will prevail...Oh yes it WILL!!!"
Douglas Jacobs
: "I am the Father, the father of nothing" MLWTTKK
: in reference to any of us anti-moonies becoming hooked on SM:
: Everyone knows crap is addictive, look at the millions that fawn over
: Hootie and the Blowfish. It takes a brain (A most vital element some
: people lack) to appreciate something more challenging. Taste is always
: subjective, yes, but then how, in genres like art and live-action movies,
: do so many people come to a consensus of what is good and what is bad in
: an educated manner? Easy, the piece of work in question must be of
: quality, which SM COULD arguably possess (arguably indeed), and must be
: significantly original or unique in a way that, like a stone thrown into
: water, sends ripples and repercussions throughout the industry. Uh-Oh - I
: don't think SM fits that last criteria!!
While I'm not going to even touch that Hootie & the Blowfish remark (I
happen to like their music, BTW), I would say that SM does have something
that makes it stand out from the deluge of anime available in Japan. SM
_has_ sent ripples through the industry...how many shows do you know of that
were originally aimmed at young girls, yet became a super-mega-hit among
high-school & college aged males? I haven't watched much of the show (in
either English or Japanese), so I can't comment on the attributes that many
die-hard fans claim to exist (I take their word for it though.)
: How many shows have followed
: this story archetype? I don't have that many fingers and I don't feel
: like adding them up, but lemme tell you, Large Quantities man, Large
: Quantities. And some of the shows in the "domestic animated sit-com with
: various demons and superpowers" genre atleast have a different look, like
: tenchi. No such innovations for SM.
I think you mean to ask 'how many shows does SM follow?', since the concept
of the transforming young female goes back quite a long, long, long way in
anime, and could almost be considered a sub-genre all by itself. You could
also include the hundreds of rubber-suited live action shows, in which the
main character(s) transform to fight the evil-monster-of-the-week (this
would include everything from Kamen Rider to Ultra Man to the Power Rangers.)
What SM _does_ do differently from other shows is that it doesn't make the
heorines these super-upstanding good guys. Let's face it, Usagi/Serena is
a bit on the ditzy side (from what I've seen...) The first few times she
goes out as Sailor Moon, she's nothing what you'd expect from other shows
in the sub-genre. Later on, in the subsequent seasons (Sailor Moon R, S?),
I have heard that deeper, more mature plots have developed...something you
don't see in a show that was originally aimmed at an audience of 10yr girls.
: I do not plan to become "addicted"
: to SM (sailor Moon, that is) anytime in the future, thank you very much.
: I maintain that it is not "elitist" to be able to intelligently defend
: your own likes and dislikes, and to condemn and criticize logically
: others' tastes. And I will strike down upon thee with Great Vengeance
: those that try to maintain that Sailor Moon is good, and you will know,
: when I crush the head of a SM doll and burn the hair off, that my name is
: the lord!!
No one is asking you to become addicted to SM...lord knows I still can't
figure out what people see in the show. Yes, it's cute & fuzzy...but
hardly something I'd watch on a daily basis.
Can I help you make a "Sailor-burning-head" doll? That sounds cool :)
Douglas Jacobs
: I know this show has a lot of fans, so I'll start out by saying I'm
: this IS a discussion group, generate debate. The reason SM is dangerous
: is because it represents an anime that is 1.Not well animated 2.Not well
: translated 3.Not well directed 4. Not evoking any emotions above the level
: of "gee-whiz isn't it trendy that I'm watching this show that is aimed at
: 12-year olds"and 5. EXTREMELY POPULAR.
1. Most anime is _not_ well animated...especially "young" TV anime (early
seasons).
2. From comparing the first 2 episodes (the only ones I've seen), I'd have
to say that Sailor Moon is among the best translation job I've seen for TV
anime, or anime in general. Yes, I know all about the changing of the names,
scrambled plots, etc, etc. But, let's face it...would you of prefered what
Saban & Co. had in mind (*shudder*)?
3. Again, most (TV) anime isn't.
4. Actually, I hear it's 'trendy' to watch because it's anime. Most
people don't know of SM's origin back in Japan.
5. Yes, it is...no debate there.
: By showing the industry that this
: type of product is marketable AND well-recieved, they will thereby respond
: by releasing even more hackneyed, archetypical shit on our shores, and the
: great stuff like Miyazaki and FSS will never be released, because it is
: more lucrative to put out the same old shit. UY started the whole thing,
: basically, and ever since then few anime have been able to match it's
: quality and originality (within the genre).
Actually, I would think that the industry, seeing that SM did so well
among a wide range of audiences, would encourage _more_ anime to come
over...including Miyazaki's works and FSS. I don't know what you mean
by the "same old shit" because frankly, the US hasn't seen that yet.
When every 3rd show is a Power Ranger ripoff, or a Minky Momo ripoff,
or a "family life" show (ala Sazae-san, Kobo-Chan, etc.) then, yes,
I would say we're being subjected to the "same old shit." However, for
right now, even though it may be old hat to the Japanese or to experienced
anime fans....it's brand spanking new to the American public (and they're
richer than us fans in general ;)
Interesting you mention UY... UY premiered in Japan almost 20 years ago.
So, of course the early TV episodes will show their age...heck, it was a
low budget show to begin with. The fact that it's still popular today says
that there's something more to the show than just (bad) animation.
: I know everybody thinks it's
: cool to like something bad (i.e. speed racer), but the problem is, some
: people actually think SM is good, and even those that like it for it's
: unique charm rather than it's quality are contributing to a bad image of
: anime.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's bad. I know
far too many people who have been fans longer than I who think SM is
something special. Although I don't share their enthusiasm, I do trust
their judgement to acknowledge that there _must_ be something about
that show. I don't like it, and I'm not alone. However, there are many
who do like SM, and they're not alone either. I don't think SM is
contributing to a 'bad' image for anime...nor would I compare SM to
Speed Racer, which underwent some horrendous editting & rewrites when it
went from 'Mach 5' to 'Speed Racer'. By comparison, SM was virtually
untouched.
: With this type of programming becoming popular, the stereotype of
: anime will quickly be decided by the mass media - anime is either really
: violent shit, or shit that involves Teenage girls fighting heinous crimes
: in basically the same episode recycled over and over ad infinitum, with
: names, places, and plot conveniences changed so that, to the eye of most
: undiscerning viewers, every episode is different! Are we sheep? Are we
: that blind to triteness and the vices of unoriginal minds?
Sounds like someone hasn't watched much anime. Yes, there are very large
genres within anime. You've hit on 2 (actually, never thought of "violent"
as a genre before...) You've left out the "Family sitcom" genre (which
hasn't shown up here yet), the "Boy-finds-giant-robot-and-saves-the-universe"
genre (Mazinger Z, even Gundam to a small extent), the Force-Five genre
(Battle of the Planets, Voltron), the overly-cute-animal-shows (you thought
Smurfs or Care Bears was bad? hah!) I left our the porno anime genre...
that speaks for itself.
It also sounds like you've only watched 1 or 2 episodes of the dubbed show.
: Sailor Moon is
: the Romance novel of anime, in that you can tune in to any episode and not
: have missed anything. Danielle Steel would be proud - Kurt Vonnegut would
: foam at the mouth and Hemingway spit on the ground.
Again, sounds like you've only watched a few of the English dubbed shows.
From what I've heard, the "girl transforms, destroys evil" formula doesn't
stick around long...and certainly by the 2nd and 3rd season is quite
different from what you've seen in the first few episodes.
: What I'm saying here
: is that America's biggest problem, entertainment-wise, is the crap that we
: lap up that Hollywood emits every other month - sequels, or anything with
: an Action Movie Star in it.
Why do you think anime is becoming more popular? Because it's _NOT_
Hollywood! Sure, in Japan, anime is very much like Hollywood...formulas
galore. Profit over quality. Merchandising deals. The whole thing.
Oddly enough I'd wager the reason that American cinema is so popular in
Japan is that it's not anime ;)
: Once in a while a film like the Piano,
: Silence of the Lambs, or Pulp Fiction comes along, but for the most part,
: we spend the greater part of our time encouraging the production of mass
: produced bile (that, incidentally, other countries seem to like too).
: Taste is subjective, but there is so much anime that hasn't yet come over
: that is soooo better than SM that I don't see why it should be so popular,
: even if it is on mainstream TV. And, by the way, everybody knows Sailor
: Mercury is the coolest :)
This is a common problem I see among Western anime fans. For the most part,
the stuff that is available (through either companies or fan sources) are
the "Pulp Fiction" or "The Piano" of anime. There is some _real_ garbage
that never (well...almost never ;) makes it out of Japan.
I also feel there are many, many other shows I'd rather see come over
instead of SM, but I also know there are many, many other things I hope
never come over. Urotsukidoji was one of those things...but we don't
always get what we hope for.
In closing, I say again that just because you as an anime fan think SM
is bad or formula, consider what would happen if SM was the first thing
you saw in terms of anime. For the most part, this is what is happening
across the US and Canada. Now imagine what will happen if only 5% of those
who watch SM go on to become full blown anime fans... Actually, that's
quite a scary thought. As Han Solo once said: "...We've got company coming!"
AdFerraro
My name is Adam, and I too am an addict. The very first time I had
ever seen SM was up at Otakon '95 when DIC previewed an episode (#21). I
thought it was the stupidest, dumbest, thing I had ever seen in my life,
and vowed not to watch the show when it started to air. I spent the next
couple of weeks badmouthing the show to anyone who would listen. Then one
day, when a couple of my classes had been canceled, I was flipping
through the tv channels and came upon IT. I caught the ending and
thought it was as stupid as ever (the cruise blues episode). I missed the
next several episodes, and then watched another one. It was at this
point I started to think that maybe I had been to hasty in my judgement.
Then I watched another, and another, and another and then I was a goner.
To those who say it can't happen to them, I say watch out! Sure,
you may resist one episode, or two, or three, or four, or maybe even five.
But sooner or later YOU WILL BECOME ADDICTED.
And for those out there wondering if it is reaching its target
audience, My five year old cousin (and her mother) just loves the show.
Even bought her one of those horrid SM Dolls for Christmas. (Course I
have a funny feeling that her mother will like the doll more than she
will).
Adam
"Truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be
believed."--William Blake
Hic Jacet Serenas
Regina Qoundam
Regina Que Futurus
Michael Pierre
:> After reading all those "I hated Sailor Moon and now I'm a Moonie"
:> speeches, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm abnormal. I liked it from the
:> beginning. Hey, I started watching it because of those stupid
:> commercials for the toys <g>. Saw a few clips of the show, thought,
:> "those drawings look cool", decided to watch it. I've always liked
:> anime style drawings, but that just drew me in. (I started taping it
:> ASAP just because it's on too early for me to watch it otherwise--I
:> kept taping it because I like it.)
You know... I don't think that it is abnormal. My story is that I had nothing
else to watch (stupid talk shows) and I noticed .... ANIME. For me, I haven't
seen anime for a while... probably since last year after watching some Ranma «
episodes. I new some of it.... ok... the only thing I knew was a bunch of
girls the become naked after transforming (influence by watching part of the
originals... never could understand it tho). I don't know if it was just
because that was the only anime (except from Teknoman on Sundays) on tv that I
could find or what, but I became hooked. It became so bad that if I was going
to go out, I would make sure that I could leave after the noon episode or get
home for the 3:30pm episode. And if I couldn't get home around those times, I
would lock up my parents VCR so I can get it taped. Never missed an episode...
:> Some might argue about personal "flaws" in the characters. But I think
:> that just makes them more realistic. I mean, if everybody was the same
:> it would be like...<shudder>...Power Rangers!!! Ugh!
*additional shudder* Well I think you are right here. I mean that is one of
the reasons why I like Rei, because she is realistic. Who wants a bunch of
happy-happy-joy-joy super heroes all the time? :) That is why I also like
X-Men (straying off from anime now) as well. I mean I love the team because of
their situations and the characters that make the team... like my fav., Logan,
Wolverine.... who could be similar to Rei... but that is another story.
:> Well, I'm kinda rambling, so I'll leave. Hope Haim Saban's death is a
:> painful and fun one, Jubei!!! <g>
I don't think Jubei will have much trouble.... isn't that right Jubei? :)
:> --Marie
-
___ _ _ __ _ _ _ _
|_ | |_)|_ |_)|_|| | . HighLanDeR . FoReVeR KNighT . X-FiLES .
| _|_| \|__|_)| ||__|__ . SaiLOR MooN . RanMa « . TeKNomaN . ReBOOT .
@yonet.org
. Michael Pierre . . Rei HinO/SaiLOR MarS FoReVeR! .
... Not tonight, dear. I have a modem.
Michael Pierre
:> Well Ami comes pretty damn close to perfection (bows to applause from Ami
:> fans), but that's what makes boring IMO (running of the stage REAL
:> fast :). Personally my favourite scout is Sailor Moon because she is so
:> flawed, and changes in her personality overall seem the most appararent
:> as the show goes on, probably cause she has a LOT of growing left to do.
:> Anyone else feel that way, or is it just me?
It is probably just you, but I can actually see where you are coming from.
I mean the poor girl is just acting her age (note this is the only time I will
take pity on Serena)... although I think she should grow up. She doesn't want
to accept some parts of her destiny and yet wants the rest.... aka getting your
cake and eating it too.... :)
-
___ _ _ __ _ _ _ _
|_ | |_)|_ |_)|_|| | . HighLanDeR . FoReVeR KNighT . X-FiLES .
| _|_| \|__|_)| ||__|__ . SaiLOR MooN . RanMa « . TeKNomaN . ReBOOT .
@yonet.org
. Michael Pierre . . Rei HinO/SaiLOR MarS FoReVeR! .
... DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"...
Michael Pierre
:> Some might call Ami weak, but I think that's just plain stupid. As she
:> (in the dub) said "My brain is my most lethal weapon" not too sure what
:> the original was--and she did defeat Tuxedo Kamen when nobody else
:> could--not by directly attacking him, but by tricking him. That's gotta
:> be good!
Indeed. I am not saying that Ami is the GREATEST, but she comes 2nd in my
books. She can handle herself very nicely I think. In battle, strategy (sp?)
is as good as strength.... mind over body.
:> I agree that Serena/Usagi has matured a lot but she's still rather
:> immature. Still, it's amazing how realistic these characters are. I
:> feel sorry for those people who just see the short skirts and watch one
:> episode and judge the whole show.
What I really wonder is why is she the ONLY one who is not fully into this
Sailor biz.
:> --Marie, who the more she watches this show, the more she realizes
:> that she *doesn't* have a favorite Senshi, totally--she likes them all
:> (with the exception of Chibi-Moon)
The thing I see about that statement (I'm not being picky here) is if you don't
like Reni (I'm just using NA version so I don't totally lose track here), then
you don't like Serena as well. I mean it is part of Serena's blood that is
flowing through that kid's blood... it is part of Serena.... multiplied! :)
-
___ _ _ __ _ _ _ _
|_ | |_)|_ |_)|_|| | . HighLanDeR . FoReVeR KNighT . X-FiLES .
| _|_| \|__|_)| ||__|__ . SaiLOR MooN . RanMa « . TeKNomaN . ReBOOT .
@yonet.org
. Michael Pierre . . Rei HinO/SaiLOR MarS FoReVeR! .
... Grown men don't cry (unless they get hit in the balls)... NO FEAR
Dutta
On 27 Dec 1995, Michael Pierre wrote:
> In an article, y3...@unb.ca wRoTe:
>
> :> Well Ami comes pretty damn close to perfection (bows to applause from Ami
> :> fans), but that's what makes boring IMO (running of the stage REAL
> :> fast :). Personally my favourite scout is Sailor Moon because she is so
> :> flawed, and changes in her personality overall seem the most appararent
> :> as the show goes on, probably cause she has a LOT of growing left to do.
> :> Anyone else feel that way, or is it just me?
>
> It is probably just you, but I can actually see where you are coming from.
> I mean the poor girl is just acting her age (note this is the only time I will
> take pity on Serena)... although I think she should grow up. She doesn't want
> to accept some parts of her destiny and yet wants the rest.... aka getting your
> cake and eating it too.... :)
She might not want to accept some parts of her destiny, but she forces
herself to accept them anyway, I mean really, spending all your time
putting your life on the line against horrible monsters isn't anyones
idea of a good time (unless they like an outlet for aggressive
tendancies). The point is, she does accept it, and she does get the job
done, and when push comes to shove, she does manage to come out ahead. I
think that's commendable, though the whining annoys me as much as it does
the next person :).
Dutta
On 27 Dec 1995, Michael Pierre wrote:
> :> I agree that Serena/Usagi has matured a lot but she's still rather
> :> immature. Still, it's amazing how realistic these characters are. I
> :> feel sorry for those people who just see the short skirts and watch one
> :> episode and judge the whole show.
>
> What I really wonder is why is she the ONLY one who is not fully into this
> Sailor biz.
>
I believe this has been brought up before, but the reason why she isn't
quite as Sailory (grammar flames will be ignored) as the others is cause
she wasn't orignally trained to be a sailor scout. She was trained to be
a princess, there are quite a few differences between politicians and
warriors afterall, she's learning this stuff from scratch (more or less)
while the other scouts were quite experienced back in the good old days, and
that experience and conditioning remains with them when they were
re-incarnated.
> The thing I see about that statement (I'm not being picky here) is if you don't
> like Reni (I'm just using NA version so I don't totally lose track here), then
> you don't like Serena as well. I mean it is part of Serena's blood that is
> flowing through that kid's blood... it is part of Serena.... multiplied! :)
>
She also has Darian's blood in her, maybe she got the worst of both
parents, besides, not all kids are exactly like their parents.
Jdgmntcity
tuning into anime, it will become not a cult phenomenon (where taste more
often resides) but a mass media frenzy!! If it becomes too popular, you
might even see Japanese animators being stolen from thier native shores in
order to work on cheezy rip-off shows over here (US). Of course, there
are positive ramifications to anime becoming popular, like the increased
availibility, but I feel that when any art form becomes lucrative in the
eyes of money-making US producers, bad things are coming i.e. "I see the
bad moon rising" -Creedence Clearwater Revival. SM is the _PERFECT_ show
to start such a chain of events, and this is why it is dangerous.
Michael Pierre
:> I believe this has been brought up before, but the reason why she isn't
:> quite as Sailory (grammar flames will be ignored) as the others is cause
:> she wasn't orignally trained to be a sailor scout. She was trained to be
:> a princess, there are quite a few differences between politicians and
:> warriors afterall, she's learning this stuff from scratch (more or less)
:> while the other scouts were quite experienced back in the good old days,
:> and that experience and conditioning remains with them when they were
:> re-incarnated.
True.... fighting monsters in a big gown probably is her cup of tea. :)
But didn't Queen Serenity started or was in the process of training her.... but
then I am not sure if it was for battle, but to replace her (Serenity)...
:> She also has Darian's blood in her, maybe she got the worst of both
:> parents, besides, not all kids are exactly like their parents.
But you better not tell me that Reni doesn't remind you of Serena. Serena's
water fountain cry, and Reni's "Twinkle Yell" (or whatever it is called)... :)
-
___ _ _ __ _ _ _ _
|_ | |_)|_ |_)|_|| | . HighLanDeR . FoReVeR KNighT . X-FiLES .
| _|_| \|__|_)| ||__|__ . SaiLOR MooN . RanMa « . TeKNomaN . ReBOOT .
@yonet.org
. Michael Pierre . . Rei HinO/SaiLOR MarS FoReVeR! .
... Fireball, Sailor Mars' jealous boyfriend!
TReed10
anime, it will become not a cult phenomenon (where taste more often
resides) but a mass media frenzy!!"
(Context note: when a writer starts using multiple exclamation points to
emphasize something, he either believes that ideas are not convincing in
and of themselves, or he's been reading too many used car ads.)
All I can say is that, once again, the Snob raises his exquisitely adorned
head. "I don't want the common, crass public finding anything good! I want
to keep it here, in my closet, where I can continually prove to myself my
good taste and judgement."
God help us if Japanese animators, who are only paid pennies more than the
South Korean slaves that do the in-between work, should actually come to
the United States and earn a decent salary (and respect) for doing an
American series. Who knows where it might lead? We might even start
getting Japanese baseball players. There goes the neighborhood.
Other points made are less troublesome. Is "Sailor Moon" really doing
anything different than "Mega Woman and Dyna Girl", or "Jem", or "She-Ra"?
The only really different point is that "Sailor Moon" is intended to show
that young girls can be heroic. Boys have had this for ages in American
cartoon series. "SM" is a pioneer in this area. And not an exceptionally
important pioneer. Check the ratings; "SM" is hardly moving mountains - it
runs in the "kiddie graveyard" of 6 AM here in Orlando.
---------------------------------------------------
Thomas E. Reed:AOL [TReed10], CompuServe[72337,234]
For good gaming in January 1996, contact me about
SunQuest '96 - Florida at great prices!
Meggan
those "Kill Sailor Moon" threads.
>-> I know this show has a lot of fans, so I'll start out by saying I'm
>-> not fishing for flames. I simply want to express an opinion, and
>-> since this IS a discussion group, generate debate. The reason SM is
>-> dangerous is because it represents an anime that is 1.Not well
>-> animated 2.Not well translated 3.Not well directed 4. Not evoking any
>-> emotions above the level of "gee-whiz isn't it trendy that I'm
>-> watching this show that is aimed at 12-year olds"and 5. EXTREMELY
>-> POPULAR.
1. No, it's not the greatest.
2. I haven't seen the originals, so I can't comment.
3. I think its fine.
4. How about just plain giddy "fun"?
5. So? Star Wars is extremely popular, the NBA is extremely popular,
citrus fruits are extremely popular. Do you hate those too?
> The answer? Sheer addictiveness.
Exactly! Well put! The show is just FUN to watch. I admit, I was a
skeptic. I thought, "Oh wow... another Power Rangers for North
American kids to drool over" but I started watching this week, and I'm
hooked.
Why do I like it so much? It's innocent, its different (not too many
all-female superheroes around, except BGC, but that was a long time
ago) and I love the banter between the characters. I like the
refreshing "Devil may care" attitude of Serena. Not all
superheroes/heroines have to be dead serious about everything. And
gosh darn it, its better than any American animation. And I also
really like Blue hair!!! ;) I guess, in short, its just good, clean
fun!
Not everything has to have "Giant Battle Robots" and 20 gallons of
blood to be good.
Meggan
Jubei
>>Their looks never bothered me. That reminds me, another reason why
>>I converted to Sailor Moon was because my Favorite VA was doing
>>Sailor Mars' voice in the original. From there on, I was biased
>>towards Sailor Mars.
>
But of course! Tomizawa Michie is the greatest! I bought the 3DO
game because of her!
>Anyways, Urban Legend says that you should sing the Sailor Moon Op
>Theme in certain sections of Souther California. Bad things start
>to happen if you do. ^_^;;;;
Like what? Bands of children run out of their homes and start kissing
you? VR Troopers start running in fear just by the mention of Sailor
Moon(reference to my fanfic^_^)?
>>On Christmas Eve, I went to Toys'R'Us in search of Sailor Moon dolls
>>for a friend(male friend) of mine. He loves Sailor Mars, and so
>>do most of the other guys at school. Yes, they are perverts.
>>At Toys'R'us, I could not find any Sailor Moon dolls. They were
>>probably sold out or something.
>
>Hmmm...something is amiss.
>
>I went home for a couple of days for Christmas. Not taking any chances,
>I dragged all the SM back with me. I scowered the TV looking
>for NA Sailor Moon to no avail. As far as I can tell, Omaha
>is Sailor Moon-less as well as Des Moines. -_- When the time
>came to do Christmas shopping, I went to Omaha and Council Bluffs
>and hit the Malls/Stores over there. Much to the chagrin of those
>with me, I tried to stop in every store that carried toys looking
>for Sailor Moon stuff to show my friends and family that I wasn't
>complete insane. @_@ Man....it was slim pickings. I don't remember finding
>any Sailor Moon in Kay Bee nor any other Mall Stores. I remember finding
>a couple of items in Target and K-mart, but usually, they only had a
>couple of things and usually only Sailor Venus. Even at the Toys-R-Us,
>they were small on the Sailor Moon merchandise, although they did
>have a larger 14"+ Sailor Venus there. *sigh* -_-
It was like that in Maryland too! I looked around Kay Bee and some
other stores and found only Sailor Moon or Venus. I don't really
undertstand why Venus dolls are not selling out. Sailor Venus is pretty
cool. Heck, she's my second favorite! Oh well.
>So, with the lack of TV coverage and the lack of merchandise, this
>part of the country seems to be out of luck for Sailor Moon stuff.
>The only bright spot of my vacation is that I happen to tune into
>Dateline as they were showing the NA Sailor Moon stuff.
Well, there's a lot of SM coverage here. That's probably why everything
is selling out! Heh he, it's a shame that a lot of Power Ranger action
figures were still on shelves. :)
>The Chruch of the Overcute is strong these days with many new
>followers... ^_^
I can't really be called a follower since I support many causes. I
was thinking of being an entity that pops in and out of battles and
supports whoever he thinks is good. Sorta like Tuxedo Kamen.
I know! Call me Hardsuit Hemlet! A guy in a Hardsuit, flying a YF-19.
The YF-19 has paintings of Sailor Mars and Lum and Ranma-chan etc...
I'll just pop in and out of battles, throwing Roses and Railgun needles,
etc... That should support every cause. ^_^
BTW, how's the WAD coming along?
>--
> Tomar: aka to...@iastate.edu
> The Return: <http://helser14.res.iastate.edu/tomar/anime/anime.html>
> <http://129.186.76.14/tomar/anime/anime.html>
> General observation about Anime...
> "Cuteness will prevail...Oh yes it WILL!!!"
STEVEN KOBERNICK
Could this be a call for a Sailor Moon 12 Step program?
--
Steven Kobernick
s_k...@alcor.concordia.ca
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
David G. Homerick
: "we've got company coming" is my whole point!!! With more and more people
: tuning into anime, it will become not a cult phenomenon (where taste more
: might even see Japanese animators being stolen from thier native shores in
: order to work on cheezy rip-off shows over here (US). Of course, there
: are positive ramifications to anime becoming popular, like the increased
: availibility, but I feel that when any art form becomes lucrative in the
: eyes of money-making US producers, bad things are coming i.e. "I see the
: bad moon rising" -Creedence Clearwater Revival. SM is the _PERFECT_ show
: to start such a chain of events, and this is why it is dangerous.
Don't panic.
No show pulling a zero point six in its TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC is going to
inspire any of the bad things you're afraid of. _Sailor Moon_ has crashed
and bled out, ratings wise, and unless something really weird happens,
the show will quietly disappear.
As for "cheezy rip-off" shows -- nobody imitates failure. I'd be more
worried about producers refusing to import anything else than any kind of
"mass media frenzy." "_Sailor Moon_ was Japan's biggest hit, and it did
jack shit in the USA. What makes you think anyone would watch this
Rayearth thing?"
The ravings of the net.moonies are meaningless. Unless they are under
twelve and like playing _Pretty Pretty Princess_, no one of
consequence _cares_ if they like _Sailor Moon_ or not.
It is a dying show. Let it pass.
-- David Homerick
Bruce Lewis
show _in its demo._ It's zero point six in the
overall animated syndication marketplace.
Bruce Lewis
Studio Go! Multimedia, LA
bc...@deltanet.com/stud...@aol.com
My opinion喫t ain't necessarily Go!'s
***************************************
Proud producers of the STAR BLAZERS
comic book and other fine publications.
***************************************
Dico tibi verum, libertas optimum rerum, nunquam
servili sub nexu, vivito fili. --Wallace
***************************************
Douglas Jacobs
: Don't panic.
: No show pulling a zero point six in its TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC is going to
: inspire any of the bad things you're afraid of. _Sailor Moon_ has crashed
: and bled out, ratings wise, and unless something really weird happens,
: the show will quietly disappear.
Hmm... I seem to remember a show that came out over 10 years ago. Maybe
you've heard it - Robotech. Targetted to males aged 6-10yrs old, I can
remember hearing how dissapointed sponsors were when they found out that
very few kids 6-10yrs old were watching the show. They were totally shocked
to learn that the show was a minor hit with "kids" in high school, college
and beyond. Instead of the sponsors adjusting for this audience, they
instead chose to pull out altogether.
Now, we have Sailor Moon. Although not doing well in it's "target
demographic" (again, 6-10 year olds), I wouldn't say that Sailor Moon has
been a total bomb. Ratings have been wrong before...look at all the other
TV shows that have been axed due to poor ratings.
: As for "cheezy rip-off" shows -- nobody imitates failure. I'd be more
: worried about producers refusing to import anything else than any kind of
: "mass media frenzy." "_Sailor Moon_ was Japan's biggest hit, and it did
: jack shit in the USA. What makes you think anyone would watch this
: Rayearth thing?"
We'll have to wait and see about that. It would be stupid to assume that
what's popular in one culture will automatically be popular in another.
Might Morphin' Power Rangers didn't do so hot in Japan...in fact, it wasn't
until Saban announced they'd bought it that it got _any_ press in Japan.
I'd say it's too early to really judge the impact that Sailor Moon has
had on the American public. I'd say wait awhile and see how many folks we
have coming by and saying "does anyone remember some show about a blonde
cry-baby who transformed into some sort of super hero?"
If you're wondering about if we should prepare for company or not...better
start baking that cake ;)
Bruce Lewis
NAM YUN
DGH> Jdgmntcity (jdgmn...@aol.com) wrote:
DGH> : "we've got company coming" is my whole point!!! With more and more
DGH> people : tuning into anime, it will become not a cult phenomenon (where
DGH> taste more : often resides) but a mass media frenzy!! If it becomes
DGH> too popular, you : might even see Japanese animators being stolen from
DGH> thier native shores in : order to work on cheezy rip-off shows over
DGH> here (US). Of course, there : are positive ramifications to anime
DGH> becoming popular, like the increased : availibility, but I feel that
DGH> when any art form becomes lucrative in the : eyes of money-making US
DGH> producers, bad things are coming i.e. "I see the : bad moon rising"
DGH> -Creedence Clearwater Revival. SM is the _PERFECT_ show : to start
DGH> such a chain of events, and this is why it is dangerous.
DGH> Don't panic.
DGH> No show pulling a zero point six in its TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC is going to
DGH> inspire any of the bad things you're afraid of. _Sailor Moon_ has
DGH> crashed and bled out, ratings wise, and unless something really weird
DGH> happens, the show will quietly disappear.
Hmm...I seem to recall that SM's target demographic group was girls
in the "under 11" category...I wonder if they bothered polling out of that
particular demographic. That's where a lot of products fail. The fail to
target the correct demographic group.
DGH> As for "cheezy rip-off" shows -- nobody imitates failure. I'd be more
DGH> worried about producers refusing to import anything else than any kind
DGH> of "mass media frenzy." "_Sailor Moon_ was Japan's biggest hit, and
DGH> it did jack shit in the USA. What makes you think anyone would watch
DGH> this Rayearth thing?"
You never know. SM was supposed to follow in the fooststeps of media
hits like Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers which did even better than the
"Turtles" craze a few years before that. Personally, I think the main reason
SM's ratings were so poor is due to their time slot. Here in NYC it airs at
6:30 am. I'm sure it would have done better if it airs in the 3pm to 5pm
time-slot.
... Darling! Hands off the cheerleaders! <<ZZZZACCKKKK!>>
---
* Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] *
Neal Dutta
> SM's ratings were so poor is due to their time slot. Here in NYC it airs at
> 6:30 am. I'm sure it would have done better if it airs in the 3pm to 5pm
> time-slot.
I haven't seen anything official in the way of Canadian ratings, but
from what I've heard, up here in Canada Sailor Moon is very popular
and getting great ratings on YTV, which airs Sailor Moon twice a day
at 12 PM and 3:30 PM EST.
Thomas Wang
> I haven't seen anything official in the way of Canadian ratings, but
> from what I've heard, up here in Canada Sailor Moon is very popular
> and getting great ratings on YTV, which airs Sailor Moon twice a day
> at 12 PM and 3:30 PM EST.
I can announce that my niece prefers Sailor Moon compared to other shows
I am feeding her, including Red Riding Hood Cha Cha and Nurse Angel Ririka.
"Sailor Moon is better," that's what she said.
She is 6, which is in the target audience.
-Thomas Wang (Software Engineer, Enterprise Objects Program)
wa...@cup.hp.com http://hpeopose.cup.hp.com/~wang/wang.html
David G. Homerick
: David G. Homerick (sac5...@saclink1.csus.edu) wrote:
: : Don't panic.
: : No show pulling a zero point six in its TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC is going to
: : inspire any of the bad things you're afraid of. _Sailor Moon_ has
: : crashed and bled out, ratings wise, and unless something really weird
: : happens, the show will quietly disappear.
: Hmm... I seem to remember a show that came out over 10 years ago. Maybe
: you've heard it - Robotech. Targetted to males aged 6-10yrs old, I can
: remember hearing how dissapointed sponsors were when they found out that
: very few kids 6-10yrs old were watching the show. They were totally shocked
: to learn that the show was a minor hit with "kids" in high school, college
: and beyond. Instead of the sponsors adjusting for this audience, they
: instead chose to pull out altogether.
I remember another show called _The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse_. It
got good ratings -- among the baby boomers. The 2-11's weren't watching
it, though, so it got cancelled.
Money is everything.
: Now, we have Sailor Moon. Although not doing well in it's "target
: demographic" (again, 6-10 year olds), I wouldn't say that Sailor Moon has
: been a total bomb. Ratings have been wrong before...look at all the other
: TV shows that have been axed due to poor ratings.
Not a bomb, just a dud. This show was supposed to be the next _Power
Rangers_, remember? So far, it's not even the next _Bonkers_.
: : As for "cheezy rip-off" shows -- nobody imitates failure. I'd be more
: : worried about producers refusing to import anything else than any kind of
: : "mass media frenzy." "_Sailor Moon_ was Japan's biggest hit, and it did
: : jack shit in the USA. What makes you think anyone would watch this
: : Rayearth thing?"
: We'll have to wait and see about that. It would be stupid to assume that
: what's popular in one culture will automatically be popular in another.
Yep. Forrest Gump didn't do very well in Japan. Maybe we're seeing some
sort of Mutual Nitwit Incompatibility here. If a popular American moron
doesn't appeal to the Japanese, there's certainly no reason to assume a
popular Japanese imbecile should appeal to Americans, even one wearing a
flirty little skirt.
: Might Morphin' Power Rangers didn't do so hot in Japan...in fact, it wasn't
: until Saban announced they'd bought it that it got _any_ press in Japan.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought only the fight footage in MMPR
came from Japan.
: I'd say it's too early to really judge the impact that Sailor Moon has
: had on the American public. I'd say wait awhile and see how many folks we
: have coming by and saying "does anyone remember some show about a blonde
: cry-baby who transformed into some sort of super hero?"
Well, if DIC has really ordered up more episodes, I guess we can safely
say Serena and her friends will be around a little while longer. I
wouldn't count on it lasting much past next fall's crop of new shows,
though, especially if the WB network starts stripping cartoons. _Sailor
Moon_ has already been squeezed into some pretty marginal timeslots.
-- David Homerick
David G. Homerick
: Actually, SAILOR MOON is the top-rated
: show _in its demo._ It's zero point six in the
: overall animated syndication marketplace.
The _Broadcasting and Cable_ article clearly stated that the zero point
six was the season average for children 2-11. I don't know what the
top-rated show in that demographic is, but I suspect it's _Power Rangers_.
-- David Homerick.
Eric J. Henwood-Greer
In a previous article, ndu...@mi.net (Neal Dutta) says:
>nam...@galaxy999.com (NAM YUN) wrote:
>
>> SM's ratings were so poor is due to their time slot. Here in NYC it airs at
>> 6:30 am. I'm sure it would have done better if it airs in the 3pm to 5pm
>> time-slot.
>
>I haven't seen anything official in the way of Canadian ratings, but
>from what I've heard, up here in Canada Sailor Moon is very popular
>and getting great ratings on YTV, which airs Sailor Moon twice a day
>at 12 PM and 3:30 PM EST.
>
It's their number 2 show!! BUT they're the only network in North America
that carries it (besides most of Global, not really a network). Actually
YTV isn't a network, but it';s a national chanel, and the only one to
giuve it not one, but two good time slots
Shows what a success it could of been in the US if a network had got it IMHO
Eric
Carlos Diaz (CS)
shows are heavily edited for sex and violence here in the USA. (Unlike in
Latin America, where I all of the violence is kept and some of the
sex/nude scenes are kept.) I know Dragonball in Mexico keeps most of the
nude scenes, though I've seen by the way some scenes appear incomplete or
incoherent that some stuff is edited out in that department. Violence
stays there 100%: I guess it's what's made Saint Seiya/Caballeros del
Zodiaco such a hit in Mexico.
My final point is, that in a Dateline NBC (?) show they interviewed the
now-millionaire creator of Sailor Moon (A lady, whose (according to NBC's
interview) most difficult decision is whether to drive to work in her
Ferrari or her Porche). She said that the thing she least liked about
Sailor Moon's US version is that they tone down the Sailor Scouts' sexuality.
Maybe there's a lot of scenes cut out and the US Sailor Moon is just as
bad a mockery to the Japanese version as Battle of the Planets is to
Gatchaman.
> SM's ratings were so poor is due to their time slot. Here in NYC it airs at
> 6:30 am. I'm sure it would have done better if it airs in the 3pm to 5pm
> time-slot.
>
>