More News on J.A.I.L.E.D.
cenpar...@delphi.com
Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
Re JAILED's mission:
JAILED's mission is to take direct legal action against (a) distributors and
retailers of pirated or counterfeit anime programs, (b) exhibitors who sell
bootlegs and pirate copies of anime at conventions and fan shows, and (c)
mail order retailers who advertise and promote the sales of bootleg or pirated
anime programs.
The problem which JAILED was established to combat is the illegal sale and
rental of unauthorized copies of copyrighted programs. It is not the mission
of JAILED to prevent fans from creating their own subtitled versions of
favorite programs. JAILED does not intend to prosecute fan clubs who
show such versions at club meetings. JAILED will, however, prosecute
suppliers who sell these versions to the public, whether via retail store,
exhibition booth, or mail order.
Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
line into commercial piracy.
A simple rule of thumb would be, "Are copies of a copyrighted program
being made available for sale or rental in the absence of approval from the
rights holders?" If no, then JAILED will not be involved. If yes, then
piracy is being conducted.
Re Direct Imports of Anime:
The legitimate importing of original copies of videocassettes or discs of
Japanese programs from Japan for resale in the United States is not an issue
which involves JAILED's enforcement activities.
Thank you and please post your comments; start a thread which we can all
follow.
Robotech_Master
>
>Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
>misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
>Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
>viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
>become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
>a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
>line into commercial piracy.
While nice to hear more about it, this still does not address the main issue
of concern to fans--fansub-swapping.
>A simple rule of thumb would be, "Are copies of a copyrighted program
>being made available for sale or rental in the absence of approval from the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>rights holders?" If no, then JAILED will not be involved. If yes, then
>piracy is being conducted.
What about swapping or free copying, where no money (possibly beyond the
cost of blank tapes/postage) changes hands? No profit is being made in this
case...
--
Chris Meadows | Author, Team M.E.C.H.A., Crapshoot & Co.,
CHM...@NIC.SMSU.EDU | on the Superguy Listserv (bit.listserv.superguy)
ROBOTECH@ | Check out the Superguy WorldWideWeb homepage:
EYRIE.STANFORD.EDU | http://www.halcyon.com/superguy/superguy.html
Steve Pearl
>
>Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
>misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
I assume this is in regard to my phone call to you guys today... *grin*
>Re JAILED's mission:
>
>JAILED's mission is to take direct legal action against (a) distributors and
>retailers of pirated or counterfeit anime programs, (b) exhibitors who sell
>bootlegs and pirate copies of anime at conventions and fan shows, and (c)
>mail order retailers who advertise and promote the sales of bootleg or pirated
>anime programs.
>The problem which JAILED was established to combat is the illegal sale and
>rental of unauthorized copies of copyrighted programs. It is not the mission
>of JAILED to prevent fans from creating their own subtitled versions of
>favorite programs. JAILED does not intend to prosecute fan clubs who
>show such versions at club meetings. JAILED will, however, prosecute
>suppliers who sell these versions to the public, whether via retail store,
>exhibition booth, or mail order.
>Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
>viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
>become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
>a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
>line into commercial piracy.
Here are a few (hypothetical) situations that I am wondering whether or
not JAILED will get involved.
How about if a fan has subtitled copies of an anime and makes it
available to other fans for their own personal viewing pleasure. (ie, a
fan sub distributor). With No money being passed either way.
How about if a fan sends the money for a VC and return postage to a Fan
Sub Distributor (to save money on postage going to the distributor)
Does it make a difference if the anime is licensed or not? Ie, I have a
subbed copy of Nadia (which is only available dubbed) and want to copy it
for a friend.
Does offering to copy videos on the net constitute a mail order business
(when either no money is charged or just the cost of materials)
What about scans of images located at various ftp sites?
What about plain paper/electronic translations to movies and manga.
(Note that for these to be useful, the fan must own an original copy of
the material. If s/he has an unoriginal copy, the the infringement is
with the copy, not the material) SO if I post my translations to the net
or make it available to other fans for the cost of postage and materials,
will that be considered a mail order business or crossing the line?
I realize that many of the activities I mentioned are technically illegal
under US law. What I am curious is whether or not these situations are
something in which JAILED feels that they have to intervene in.
>A simple rule of thumb would be, "Are copies of a copyrighted program
>being made available for sale or rental in the absence of approval from the
>rights holders?" If no, then JAILED will not be involved. If yes, then
>piracy is being conducted.
Steve
The OEM of raai
---
Stephen Pearl (Starbuck)
Internet: star...@cybercom.com WWW: http://www.cybercom.com/~starbuck/
QUOTES: "What is Starbuck-ing?" -Adultress 19
"Works for me!" -Rick Hunter (The Cop, not the Robotech Defender)
Ken Arromdee
>Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
>misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
>Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
>viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
>become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
>a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
>line into commercial piracy.
>follow.
You left something big out.
Fansubbed copies being given away. Likewise for translations and translated
scripts. These are neither made for personal use, nor are they sold.
For instance, Nausicaa and Windaria exist in the USA only as badly-hacked
versions. Would a fan who makes a sub of Nausicaa, and gives it away, be
sued by JAILED? What about a fan who translates a Ranma volume in the 30's
and posts it to the net; does he get sued? (Viz will likely be putting them
out in the 21st century, if ever.)
I suspect I know the answer. Fansubs are technically illegal if distributed.
So JAILED posts a post which says "we are going after commercial pirates, and
we are not going against people who make subtitled versions for their own
use", and try to pretend that that covers all the categories, which it
doesn't. They're not going to say "distributing fansubs or scripts for free
is illegal and we will sue you for that", because it's going to anger the
fans, but they won't allow it, either.
--
Ken Arromdee (email: arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Romana: "But he had such an honest face!"
Doctor: "Romana! You can't be a successful thief with a _dis_honest face!"
Alan S. Y. Liu
>The problem which JAILED was established to combat is the illegal sale and
>rental of unauthorized copies of copyrighted programs. It is not the mission
>of JAILED to prevent fans from creating their own subtitled versions of
>favorite programs. JAILED does not intend to prosecute fan clubs who
>show such versions at club meetings. JAILED will, however, prosecute
>suppliers who sell these versions to the public, whether via retail store,
>exhibition booth, or mail order.
Ooooh Boy... JAILED is gonna have a field day the next time they visit
Chinatown, anywher, North America. Those chinese rental places have total
disregard for the copyright holders........
Michael Mckibbin
Ken Arromdee <karr...@nyx.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>cenpar...@delphi.com wrote:
[Cent.Park Media text cut out]
>
>You left something big out.
>
>Fansubbed copies being given away. Likewise for translations and translated
>scripts. These are neither made for personal use, nor are they sold.
>
>For instance, Nausicaa and Windaria exist in the USA only as badly-hacked
>versions. Would a fan who makes a sub of Nausicaa, and gives it away, be
>sued by JAILED? What about a fan who translates a Ranma volume in the 30's
>and posts it to the net; does he get sued? (Viz will likely be putting them
>out in the 21st century, if ever.)
I think that the issue in question here is not the publication of the title
in the United States, but the ownership of the rights to produce that title
at the present, or at any time in the future. If Viz has purchased the
rights to produce the entire Ranma series in English translation, then
they could go after anyone who produced a fan-sub whether or not there is
an English translation out yet (by them). Even if they NEVER produce the
later episodes, until the rights expire (I beleive that most rights are
sold with expiration, but I'm not absolutely sure on this) they can prosecute
anyone who violates the rights. The one example I can signt on this would
be the Robotech series, taken from the japanese Macross, Mospeda, and I can't
remember right of hand what the second part was originally called. But
anyway, after the shows went off the air FHE purchased the rights to put the
series out on video. The set they put out was horribly mangled, with about
four minutes cut per episode. But since FHE owned the videotape rights,
noone could do a damned thing about it. They may have even obtained the
rights to the original series, although I'm not sure about this. Anyway,
to sum up my point, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THERE IS A COMMERCIAL TAPE
OF A PARTICULAR TITLE OR NOT. THE RIGHTS TO PRODUCE DETERMINE ALL. (Sorry
about yelling).
>
>I suspect I know the answer. Fansubs are technically illegal if distributed.
>So JAILED posts a post which says "we are going after commercial pirates, and
>we are not going against people who make subtitled versions for their own
>use", and try to pretend that that covers all the categories, which it
>doesn't. They're not going to say "distributing fansubs or scripts for free
>is illegal and we will sue you for that", because it's going to anger the
>fans, but they won't allow it, either.
>--
>Ken Arromdee (email: arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
>
---Napoleon
napo...@expert.cc.purdue.edu
Peter Evans
>In article <x+5fUtg.ce...@delphi.com>, <cenpar...@delphi.com> wrote:
>>Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
>>misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
>>Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
>>viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
>>become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
>>a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
>>line into commercial piracy.
>While nice to hear more about it, this still does not address the main issue
>of concern to fans--fansub-swapping.
>>A simple rule of thumb would be, "Are copies of a copyrighted program
>>being made available for sale or rental in the absence of approval from the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>rights holders?" If no, then JAILED will not be involved. If yes, then
>>piracy is being conducted.
>What about swapping or free copying, where no money (possibly beyond the
>cost of blank tapes/postage) changes hands? No profit is being made in this
>case...
Oh yes there is. To whit. (this is a case in point, not real)
I have a subtitled copy of "A - the forbidden movie" and I own
the original laserdisk too.
You have a copy of "B - the not-so-forbidden movie" and you own
the original laserdisk too.
You want a copy of "A", which has the notorious steam-engine scenes
in. So you offer to trade a copy of B for a copy of A.
In your opinion, no money is changing hands, so there's no profit.
*HOWEVER*
You *are* making a profit. You get something you wanted "A" which
you didn't have. I get a copy of "B" so (assuming I wanted it ^_^)
I am making a profit too.
It's a bit grey as to how big a fine we should both get, but it is
piracy.
Peter
----*
Looking for "C - The really doggy video" subtitled in Klingon.
--
Space Acapella(tm) - "In space, no one can hear you sing ..."
^_o | Gag ari! SF ari! Bijo ari! Onsen ari!
U \ Beh! | [half-male, half-email] "Ja'n ja'n pafu-pafu!"
SFUJ...@delphi.com
Quoting R. from a message in rec.arts.anime
> What's your definition of 'sell'? (If it has to involve making a
>profit, the fansubbers are safe...)
Good question. In my book, "sell" or "rent" implies getting money in
return for the tapes. However, the legal definition of "sell" may be quite
different.
OTOH, they said they wouldn't go after fan clubs which show fansubbed
anime. I'm sure they realize that many clubs don't fansub their own anime
and get it from other fansubbers. So is this all right with JAILED as long
as no money is being traded in the process? Time will tell.
--Scott
Rainbow V 1.07 for Delphi - Registered
Mark L. Neidengard
Robotech_Master <robo...@eyrie.stanford.edu> wrote:
>In article <x+5fUtg.ce...@delphi.com>, <cenpar...@delphi.com> wrote:
>>
>>Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
>>misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
>
>>Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
>>viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
>>become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
>>a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
>>line into commercial piracy.
>
>While nice to hear more about it, this still does not address the main issue
>of concern to fans--fansub-swapping.
Well, I am staring very hard at the wording above. The way _I_ read it, it
seems that, if there is no _sale_, then JAILED's enforcement policies do not
enter into it. Which is I think the leeway we wanted..
>
>>A simple rule of thumb would be, "Are copies of a copyrighted program
>>being made available for sale or rental in the absence of approval from the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>rights holders?" If no, then JAILED will not be involved. If yes, then
>>piracy is being conducted.
>
>What about swapping or free copying, where no money (possibly beyond the
>cost of blank tapes/postage) changes hands? No profit is being made in this
>case...
See above. If the wording used in the original post is the way it works, I
think JAILED and the majority of fan-ethics are on the same wavelength, and
we can all sheathe our katanas. Ne?
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/System Administrator, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Geoffrey Scott
: In article <x+5fUtg.ce...@delphi.com>, <cenpar...@delphi.com> wrote:
: >
: >Recent activity on the nets indicates that some anime fans have
: >misunderstood the focus of JAILED's enforcement activities.
: >Therefore, if a fan makes his own subtitled version for his own personal
: >viewing pleasure, and does not sell copies, there is no reason for JAILED to
: >become involved. If a fan SELLS unlicensed copies of his subtitled versions to
: >a retailer, for example, or to the general public, then the fan has crossed the
: >line into commercial piracy.
: While nice to hear more about it, this still does not address the main issue
: of concern to fans--fansub-swapping.
Yes it does. DON'T FANSUB STUFF THAT HAS BEEN RELEASED IN AMERICA.
Period. (Since Streamline isn't a member of JAILED, and Macek has been
reported to have said that he doesn't mind fansubs, Streamline's stuff is
fair game, IMHO.) They might not go after you if you fansub stuff
availible here and just trade it, but still...don't do it. I consider it
bad karma. Besides, discouting Streamline, 95% of the anime released for
the fan market has been subtitled, as well as possibly being dubbed. I
bet there aren't twenty titles that don't fall into this catagory.
Geo