Anime tendencies towards pedophelia and standards therein
Neil Scott Nadelman
: Excuse me, I may be new here(VERY NEW). But this seems the only place I
: can ever hope to get an intelligable response.
: Yo! Net, and other local and Internation (Non-internet) nets have proven
: futile for no one is willing to touch this subject. I require some feed back
: if you will.
: Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
: seemingly obsessed with pedophelia. Upon no other entertainment media can
: you find so many renditions of nude,naked, even those engaging in sexual acts
: as you can in anime. I love the stuff, I think it is a high standard.
: However the producers are including ever more sex and nudity(what of it you
: can show with pen and ink:>) and this is taking away from the entire
: industry. For instance I've heard of SEX-SCENES(yes they are mostly coverd
: up and you can't see much, even though it is only a cartoon) in anime-series
: directed towards children! This I find to be somewhat obscene! Why for
: example is it necessary to strip Sailor Moon nude whence she doth transform?
: Just something that has been bugging me for a while and needed to get off
: my chest. Is there no equivalent CRTC in Japan?
: G'day!
: Your friendly neighborhood psycho-man...
: Please respond to:"psyc...@ultratech.net"
--
I really doubt you can find "sex scenes" in Sailor Moon. You're
confusing the usual bit of jiggle found in many pretty girl animes with
actual sex scenes (such as you'd find in Soft Cel and Anime 18 releases).
The little bits of nudity and panty shots are for the benefit of the
adolescent (minded) boys who end up watching this stuff. Do you really
find the transformation sequences in Sailor Moon to be pornographic?
What do you think of things like Angel of Darkness and La Blue Girl then?
Why do we have so much cheesecake in anime? Because it's mostly
made for the benefit of jr. high and high school boys, and they like
cheesecake. Why so much underage sex? Because Japan seems to specialize
in having a national Lolita complex.
Hope this helps.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman...@user1.channel1.com| The blood still pulses in my veins.
----------------------------------------| The sun, still at its zenith.
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Ru Igarashi
: Psychotica Rex (psyc...@ultratech.net) wrote:
: : However the producers are including ever more sex and nudity(what of it you
: : industry. For instance I've heard of SEX-SCENES(yes they are mostly coverd
: : up and you can't see much, even though it is only a cartoon) in anime-series
: : directed towards children! This I find to be somewhat obscene! Why for
: : example is it necessary to strip Sailor Moon nude whence she doth transform?
: : Just something that has been bugging me for a while and needed to get off
: : my chest. Is there no equivalent CRTC in Japan?
: : G'day!
: : Your friendly neighborhood psycho-man...
: : Please respond to:"psyc...@ultratech.net"
: --
: I really doubt you can find "sex scenes" in Sailor Moon. You're
: confusing the usual bit of jiggle found in many pretty girl animes with
: actual sex scenes (such as you'd find in Soft Cel and Anime 18 releases).
: The little bits of nudity and panty shots are for the benefit of the
: adolescent (minded) boys who end up watching this stuff. Do you really
: find the transformation sequences in Sailor Moon to be pornographic?
: What do you think of things like Angel of Darkness and La Blue Girl then?
: Why do we have so much cheesecake in anime? Because it's mostly
: made for the benefit of jr. high and high school boys, and they like
: cheesecake. Why so much underage sex? Because Japan seems to specialize
: in having a national Lolita complex.
: Hope this helps.
One should also keep in mind that us north americans in
general are about as anal rententive as anyone can get
when it comes to nudity. I'm not sure about japan, but
when i was in Europe, nudity in the media was no big deal.
I'd imagine the same is true in japan. Simple scenes of
nudity in Sailor Moon, Mamono Hunter Yohko, and other
similar shows probably isn't a big deal. And they sure
to heck are NOT SEX scenes. Where Psychotica gets THAT
idea, i don't think i want to know. Also, keep in mind
that those scenes save us the trouble asking ourselves,
"where do their civilian clothes go when they transform?",
as we are wont to ask of many superheros :).
ru
Aegis
: : : Please respond to:"psyc...@ultratech.net"
: : --
: : Hope this helps.
: ru
i certainly have to agree, since i'm back from the holiday from
hell, i also have some info that'll support your view. you see, my uncle
was brought up in rural pensylvania and is quite a methodist. he told me
this: "how dare they sell sex to kids in that manor!". EEEH? ... this is
what we're talking about. religion is "running" our young little coutry.
yup our young can see,hear, and do no evil... hmmmm i guess that's why 5
year olds shoot people? but you were right when you said nudity is no big
deal in other countries... i was in europe myself and it was surprising
to me how open a society they have. but i have to look at it this way,
our country's culture has been around for 200yrs. other cultures like
japan:2000+, europe:1000+ etc... now who do you think has a better
outlook on things in general? i prefer to relate the issues like an elder
and a child : our nation the child - yes we have people who can actually
"handle" it (that being us) and the majority can't for reasons of
conservative upbringing. i gotta give the U.S. about 500 more years to
wise up to reality.
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Chris Cracknell
: our country's culture has been around for 200yrs. other cultures like
: outlook on things in general? i prefer to relate the issues like an elder
: and a child : our nation the child - yes we have people who can actually
: "handle" it (that being us) and the majority can't for reasons of
: conservative upbringing. i gotta give the U.S. about 500 more years to
: wise up to reality.
While it might possibly take the U.S. 500 years to mature, the U.S. is
using it's ethno and theocentricities to spread it's immaturity to other
countries and cultures.
CRACKERS
("Westernization" from hell!!!!)
David Boeren
: Excuse me, I may be new here(VERY NEW). But this seems the only place I
: can ever hope to get an intelligable response.
many different types of anime. The biggest mistake you can make is to
consider the anime you see in local videostores to be represntative of anime
as a whole. To tell the truth, US anime translation companies have to dig
very deep to find enough smut to satisfy the American audience. What you
see in stores is the US company's estimation of what the US audience
wants, not what is popular or considered good in Japan.
: Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
: seemingly obsessed with pedophelia. Upon no other entertainment media can
: you find so many renditions of nude,naked, even those engaging in sexual acts
: as you can in anime.
Very simple answer to this question, it's not true. Here are a few things
to think about for you:
1. You assume that pedophelia is some kind of anime thing or japanese thing.
Try this: Point your newsreader to alt.sex.stories and take a look
at teh stories posted there. Probably over half of them involve sex
with one or more minors. A MUCH higher percentage than you will ever
find in anime.
2. You think there is a lot of sex in anime. This is not true either. As
mentioned above, the anime which is commercially translated in teh US
reflects only on American tastes, and the thousands of hours of high
quality anime which doesn't have sex or gore in it is not translated
because the US companies know it won't sell to the US audience. There
are only a few anime which have sex in them, and that's far more than in
US movies or TV shows. I'd say that roughly 2/3rds of US movies have
explicit or implied sexual scenes in them these days, and a fairly good
percentage of prime-time TV shows do too. Perhaps you haven't
noticed it because it's so widely accepted.
3. Nudity does not equal sex. Americans tend to think so, but they're
so messed up about sex that it can probably never be fixed. Anyway,
a show where you can see some breasts or panties or whatever is not
generally a sex show. These kinds of things show up for many reasons,
including comedy (like some of the breast scenes in Ranma) or cuteness
(like Pretty Sami). And in the great majority of these kinds of
scenes the girls are covered up anyway either by undergarments or
their bodies are obscured by clouds or bubbles or light or something.
What's so horrible about that? It's certainly no worse than many
accepted things in this country like fully mature women in underwear
being shown in newspaper ads for Sears or the occasional child's fanny
that appears on TV commercials or shows.
Anyway, I think a lot of people have somehow gotten the wrong idea about
anime. Because of the titles that US companies have chosen to translate for
US audiences and US tastes, people think this reflects on anime as a whole.
Because these "sexual" images are presented differently than the ones we
are used to seeing every day, they are labelled as being "bad". So if people
have a problem with this then maybe they should just go back to the world
of American TV and see how many sex scenes they can cram into Melrose Place
this week. Apparently there it's OK and doesn't reflect on US TV as a whole.
MICHAEL C. LING
pedophelia and standards therein>, 'ad...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Chris
Cracknell)' wrote:
>MICHAEL C. LING (mike...@nyc.pipeline.com) wrote:
>: There are laws in Japan that outlaw the showing of pubic hair and
>: presumebly genitalia, so they either don't draw it or they cover it up.
>: These laws were made by the US after WW2 and were never changed.
>~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
>
>I knew about the law, but I didn't know it was a law imposed by the U.S.
>occupation. It makes sense that it would be a law originating outside of
I dunno if the US imposed it for them, but I am pretty certain it came from
the US.
>Japan. For those of you out there that are into Japanese historical art
>and not just the Anime stuff there was certainly alot of gential art
>being made. One of the most hillarious of these was a woodblock
>engraving depicting a "Penis Competition".
Sounds like a lost episode of Ranma no one has seen yet... :)
>Drawing of dozens of men and their members. Some of them being carried by
>four or five less endowed men, some of them being wheeled in on carts,
>and some of them being supported with a sling. That's some imagination!
>But you know what they say, "If you're gonna dream, dream big!"
>
Two words to that... "WANDERING CHILD".
--
M C L -
Psychotica Rex
can ever hope to get an intelligable response.
futile for no one is willing to touch this subject. I require some feed back
if you will.
Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
seemingly obsessed with pedophelia. Upon no other entertainment media can
you find so many renditions of nude,naked, even those engaging in sexual acts
as you can in anime. I love the stuff, I think it is a high standard.
Jdgmntcity
"questionable" content, for if thou looks at the land of the rising sun,
methinks you will see not only a lower level of child molestation, rape,
and pedophilia, but also violence. besides, Mine own true self believes
sailor moon to be very attractive when she doth strip herself of earthly
burdens and return to nature. We all have genitals, do we not? No point
in denying this, methinks, and as long as certain people enjoy seeing
these naughty bits, why not give them what they want? Children's minds
will be corrupted far more by right-wing politics, racism, sexism, and the
violence with real people they can see on TV any day than by a nude
cartoon.
P.S. never make me speak in Ye Olde English again, it is punishable by
death, or, even worse, forced viewing of all of AD Visions flesh flicks!!!
Vance Palodichuk
>3. Nudity does not equal sex. Americans tend to think so, but they're
> so messed up about sex that it can probably never be fixed. Anyway,
> a show where you can see some breasts or panties or whatever is not
> generally a sex show. These kinds of things show up for many reasons,
> including comedy (like some of the breast scenes in Ranma) or cuteness
> (like Pretty Sami). And in the great majority of these kinds of
> scenes the girls are covered up anyway either by undergarments or
> their bodies are obscured by clouds or bubbles or light or something.
> What's so horrible about that? It's certainly no worse than many
> accepted things in this country like fully mature women in underwear
> being shown in newspaper ads for Sears or the occasional child's fanny
> that appears on TV commercials or shows.
EXACTLY! Most anime has nudity, but it isn't expressed in a sexual manner.
It's byond the scope of most Americans to except casual nudity. Even in
something in like Ah! My Goddess in the fifth episode Belldandy is naked during
the transformation. But it's in no way sexual.
Ja ne!
Vance
Otaku/2
--
| Vance Palodichuk | [TeamOS/2][RUSH][Anime][Ranma][A-ko][A!MG] |
| vpal...@usinternet.com | http://www.usinternet.com/users/vpalodich/ |
| Flush the toilet when Ranma's in the shower, he hates that! |
Eric Lanier
: Excuse me, I may be new here(VERY NEW). But this seems the only place I
: Yo! Net, and other local and Internation (Non-internet) nets have proven
: futile for no one is willing to touch this subject. I require some feed ba
:
: Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
[deleted]
Ano, I remember some guy in rec.games.video.sony a month ago who raised a
similar question and got stomped. That could not have been you right?
--
Eric Lanier ser...@ssnet.com WWW: http://ssnet.com/~serpent/home.html
"If half a chicken can lay half an egg in half a day, and a whole chicken can
lay a whole egg in a whole day, how long will it take a monkey with a wooden
leg to kick the seeds out of a watermelon?" -- The Hon. Dave Broadfoot,
MP, Kicking Horse Pass
Amity J Dunn
: hell, i also have some info that'll support your view. you see, my uncle
: this: "how dare they sell sex to kids in that manor!". EEEH? ... this is
: what we're talking about. religion is "running" our young little coutry.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be rude, but I was brought up
Protestant and when I brought home Ranma my family (parents and
brothers)thought it was really funny and totally understood that the
nudity was not sexual or 'bad'. Maybe that's just my family.
Maybe I got you wrong, but it seemed to me like the general consensus is
that christians can't accept other cultures values as valid. I don't agree.
I like anime and see nothing wrong with all that casual nudity and such.
By the way, about the original question of the 'pedophelia' in anime,
when I was Usagi/Sailor Moon's age I dated someone Mamouru's age.
No big deal.
PsychoKick
>
>Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be rude, but I was brought up
>Protestant and when I brought home Ranma my family (parents and
>brothers)thought it was really funny and totally understood that the
>nudity was not sexual or 'bad'. Maybe that's just my family.
Nope, you're not alone here. My siblings and I all like Ranma and
most anime in general (my parents, on the other hand, don't watch
"cartoons" or pretty much any TV at all), and I'll say that my family is
perhaps one of the most devout Christian families ever!
>Maybe I got you wrong, but it seemed to me like the general consensus is
>that christians can't accept other cultures values as valid. I don't
>agree. I like anime and see nothing wrong with all that casual nudity and
>such.
Ditto here. There's a large difference between reality and
entertainment. You just have to know where to draw the line. My parents
have no trouble with my anime hobby (though they still think it's kinda
unusual that I'm watching "cartoons") because they know they've raised me
well enough to not just mindlessly take in what the TV spits out (unlike
most families these days, Christian or otherwise, who think that TV is
some kind of baby-sitter).
Just because I'm enjoying an anime that has reincarnation (like
"Please Save My Earth") doesn't mean that I have to accept the concept as
truth. While I don't believe in reincarnation, it is an extremely
interesting idea that has much story potential. I view it as the same
level as "alternate history" or "what if?" anime such as "Kishin Corps" or
"Wings of Honneamise". Shower scenes, while certainly juvenile and
unecessary IMHO, aren't going to warp someone's mind unless they've been
raised really screwy or in a cage all their life.
Still, I'm never going to watch or support "La Blue Girl" or "Fist
of the North Star". Glorifying excessive, mindless, gratuitous violence or
rape merely for voyuerism is something I can't accept.
-PsychoKick
Enrique Conty
> Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
The so-called "Lolita Complex" (or "lolicon", as it's often shortened
on Japanese media) is a widespread phenomenon in Japanese society.
From their cultural point of reference, people there don't necessarily
see it as much of an evil as people from this culture.
>Upon no other entertainment media can you find so many renditions of
>nude, naked, even those engaging in sexual acts as you can in anime.
When was the last time you watched an American movie? ^_^;
>For instance I've heard of SEX-SCENES(yes they are mostly coverd up and
>you can't see much, even though it is only a cartoon) in anime-series
>directed towards children!
You shouldn't believe everything you hear. One person's definition of
"sex scene" and "children's show" will almost certainly be different from
another person's, triply so when said persons come from different cultures.
Also, in shows targeted towards jr. high and high school students, you'll
see the occasional blue joke (like, say, Happosai sneaking into the girls'
locker room to steal their underwear). Kids that old WILL get the joke,
no question about that, and it's not seen as harmful to put that kind of
humor in the show once in a while.
>This I find to be somewhat obscene! Why for example is it necessary
>to strip Sailor Moon nude whence she doth transform?
Your definitions of "obscene" and "nude" differ from mine, obviously.
We're shown an outline of the character, as her uniform magically
appears around her. I don't count that as nudity, and certainly not
as obscene, it's a very nice symbolic rendering of her power coming
from within. Perhaps YOU are the one with the hangups, seeing sexual
references where there are none.
> Just something that has been bugging me for a while and needed to
>get off my chest. Is there no equivalent CRTC in Japan?
What's CRTC?
--
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Watch Key The Metal Idol! | 3DO games for sale! | Watch Evangelion!
Want to see Giant Robo subbed? Write to ma...@manga.com!
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Ru Igarashi
: In article <49a2jk$k...@newspeak.ultratech.net> psyc...@ultratech.net (Psychotica Rex) writes:
: >Upon no other entertainment media can you find so many renditions of
: >nude, naked, even those engaging in sexual acts as you can in anime.
: When was the last time you watched an American movie? ^_^;
Oh to heck with that...when was the last time you watched an
American *TV* show? *cackle*
: > Just something that has been bugging me for a while and needed to
: >get off my chest. Is there no equivalent CRTC in Japan?
: What's CRTC?
CRTC is the Canadian Radio and Television Commission or
something like that. It regulates television station
activities.
Oh heck, if Psychotica is Canadian, I'll ask this:
when was the last time you watched Canadian TV, especially
the french networks? BAHAHAHA. ahem. sorry. got a bit
carried away there.
ru
Ru Igarashi
: Thou dost make little sense in your aprehensions about the
: "questionable" content, for if thou looks at the land of the rising sun,
[incomprehensible old english text deleted...well comprehensible
part deleted too]
: P.S. never make me speak in Ye Olde English again, it is punishable by
: death, or, even worse, forced viewing of all of AD Visions flesh flicks!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EEEWWW, that IS a terrible fate.
ru
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: Ideally, it is usually best to watch something for yourself, but
: reality often doesn't work that way. Instead we often have to rely on
: informed decisions. And in the case of these two titles, I'd say I've
: gathered plenty of information on the net, in magazines, through people
: who have actually seen the titles, etc. I'm NOT just mindlessly sitting
: down and just agreeing with everyone else's opinion, I analyzed what
: information I gathered, took into account the reliability of my sources,
: and came to what I know is a solid, well-grounded conclusion. A lot less
: work than it sounds like.
Also, it generally isn't difficult to construe what's in _Fist of
the North Star_ or _La Blue Girl_. You only need to look at the cover art.
I've seen both. Fist is low-brow comedy, as far as I'm
concerned. La Blue Girl is the same thing, except using sex as the
primary plot device instead of violence. They're both harmless, really,
but not very quality.
What do you think of films that use sex and/or violence as plot
devices, but are still _good_ films? Examples that come to mind might be
_Jubei Ninpucho/Ninja Scroll_ and _Supernatural Beast City_.
--
"My name is the One. Some people call me the Funk." O
|-+-| Mr. Groovy
dairy products. |
lots of 'em. >|<
Dragonmaster Lou
> Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
>seemingly obsessed with pedophelia. Upon no other entertainment media can
>you find so many renditions of nude,naked, even those engaging in sexual acts
>as you can in anime. I love the stuff, I think it is a high standard.
>However the producers are including ever more sex and nudity(what of it you
>can show with pen and ink:>) and this is taking away from the entire
>industry. For instance I've heard of SEX-SCENES(yes they are mostly coverd
>up and you can't see much, even though it is only a cartoon) in anime-series
>directed towards children! This I find to be somewhat obscene! Why for
>example is it necessary to strip Sailor Moon nude whence she doth transform?
It's a case of differing culture. Nudity isn't that big a deal in
Japan. Hell, some of the anime's I've seen show kids and parents
bathing together.
---
+------------ http://techhouse.brown.edu/~tech/lou/index.html ---------+
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|"Dragonmaster Lou" |Iscandar, leaving all we love behind, who knows|
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+-------------------ftp://yamato.techhouse.brown.edu-------------------+
Matthew Alt
writes:
> Still, I'm never going to watch or support "La Blue Girl" or
"Fist
>of the North Star". Glorifying excessive, mindless, gratuitous
violence or
>rape merely for voyuerism is something I can't accept.
How do you know EITHER is in there if you've never seen it and never
plan to?
Just a question.
-Matt
Kwesi Ako Kennedy
> Thou dost make little sense in your aprehensions about the
>"questionable" content, for if thou looks at the land of the rising sun,
>and pedophilia, but also violence.
Easy on the driping sarchasm!
Psychotic made a good point. Can anyone out there define why it is necessary
for there to be as much GRATUITOUS sex, violence, and pedopeia eclusivly
directed toward young women or girls. This question has nothing to do with an
individuals comfort with their sexuality.
I don't think that many parents in Japan are that cool about some of the things
that go on in anime like Overfiend or La Blue Girl either. If I remember
correctly, there was a serial killer caught (I think his name was Miyazake[not
the animator]) who turned out to be the typical perverted otaku/fanboy of such
graphic anime. This stirred up an outcry by parents to start restricting the
content or even banning such material. Correct me if I am wrong.
Now don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of anime but the combination of sex and
violence directed toward women that has become a regular feature has started to
get disturbing. I thought Monster City was great(rape scenes were hard to
watch) but the escalation of some of the harsher material has become a more
than unbearable in anime.
Peace
Kwesi Ako Kennedy
--
kake...@unity.ncsu.edu
dma...@forest.drew.edu
> On Nov 26, 1995 15:54:28 in article <Anime tendencies towards pedophelia
> and standards therein>, 'psyc...@ultratech.net (Psychotica Rex)' wrote:
Ok, this is a semi-flame alert. Pesonally, I think flaming is
petty and stupid and has no business on the internet. But this response
REALLY bothered me. I will not flame anyone, but I am really pissed and
want to voice my opinion:
> Usually anime heroes and heroines are 15-18 years of age and women
> are displayed nude to show off "how pretty they are". Notice that the
> character take off their clothes either in private or in a communal setting
> like in locker room, with NO sexual contact or context...often violence is
> the only excuse for
> any sexual scenes(Akira). Even in porno anime many, sometimes most, girls
> are so virtuous(sp) that the only context you'd see them engaged in sexual
> acts are when they being raped by monsters or people; after all upstanding
> girls just don't willingly engage in "slutty" behavior.
All I'm going to say is that if the poster can't see why this is SO
WRONG then he's blind and a sexist pig.
> 99.9% of all people take off their clothes prior to putting on new
> clothing. :)
>
> Then again it could be to avoid why the Hulk rip open his clothes when he
> transforms? or that her clothes go where her uniform and scepter was when
> it was in storage.
Yes, but you don't end up seeing the Hulk's nads when he
transforms. I think that's the point of the origional posters'
objections.
Again, I'm sorry for this, but I'm truly annoyed. I'm sure that
his post was just poorly written and I'm misinterpereting his real message,
but from what I can read, I'm pissed at his content.
---Dmambu
MEL...@argonet.co.uk
퓦?>How do you know EITHER is in there if you've never seen it and never
퓦?>plan to?
퓦? Ideally, it is usually best to watch something for yourself, but
퓦?reality often doesn't work that way. Instead we often have to rely on
퓦?informed decisions. [Snip!] I analyzed what
퓦?information I gathered, took into account the reliability of my sources,
퓦?and came to what I know is a solid, well-grounded conclusion.
Yes. this is called 'life'.
퓦? I'm getting sick of people (especially in net arguments) always
퓦?saying that the _only_ way to form a solid argument/idea is to directly
퓦?experience it youself.
Well this is in fact the case. Of course you can form opinions about whatever
you like, but you can't _really_ know until you've 'been there'. I don't think
I will ever take Heroin, for example, as the evidence against is both abundant
and graphic, but my experiences with addiction to other drugs have given me the
proof I need that it just isn't worth it. This is a pretty extreme example, as
life is replete with advocations of abstinence from deadly pleasures, and we'll
leave religion (which by its very nature must be hipocritical and reactionary)
out of the equation entirely.
I doubt I shall ever see such 'classics' as Snuff (Dir. Michael & Roberta
Findlay 1974 - 'The film that could only be made in South America, where life is
cheap'), Make Them Die Slowly (Or: Cannibal Ferox, Dir. Umberto Lenzi, 1981) and
The Gore Gore Girls (Or: Bloody Orgy, Dir. Hershell Gordon Lewis, 1972 - A
delightfully sick opus that features such treats as a woman having her nipples
snipped off) simply because what I know of their contents means I shall never go
out of my way to see them, or indeed take up offers of a viewing. I shall
never, however, rail against them in company or debate, as I feel I have no
right to base an argument on knowledge I do not possess (oh dear, I feel I may
be setting myself up for a fall in the future).
I shall, on the other hand, ramble incessantly on the works of Peter Jackson
and, more on topic (sorry), anime like Lyon Flare, Guy, Cream Lemon or the works
of the good Mr Maeda as I have seen them and can say without hesiation what i
think of the _contents_ rather than the hype.
퓦?especially when taken to extremes. I don't have unlimited time, money, or
퓦?resources to personally experience everything.
Nor should you have to, but the lesson to be learnt (not necessarily by
yourself) is that if you want to be respected, don't go off at the deep end then
admit ignorance, as folks will just stop paying attention.
퓦?I do have a brain that can think and eyes that can read.
And for this we should all be grateful.
Mel-chan
--
--. --. --. --. : : --- --- Now that my ginseng consumption has reached an
|_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | all-time high of 750mg a day, everything seems
| | |\ | | | | |\| | | somehow... fluffier.
| | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | MEL...@argonet.co.uk
Matthew Alt
writes:
> I'm getting sick of people (especially in net arguments) always
>saying that the _only_ way to form a solid argument/idea is to
directly
>experience it youself.
And I'm getting sick of holier-than-thou religious types who condemn a
TV show, movie, or book when they haven't read or seen it. I'm sorry,
if you havent seen it, you can't claim it's gratuitous. I'm not
claiming that FOTNS is high culture--it's just this attitude I have
trouble with.
If that was so, then we might as well get rid of
>all forms of media and information exchange, including school
textbooks,
>encyclopaedias and other educational resources. Yes, firsthand
experience
>is invaluable,
Your argument is invalid. Nobody is asking you to go out and expeirence
rape and violence personally. They're asking you to VIEW A TAPE of a
show to make up your own mind about it.
> I don't have unlimited time, money, or
>resources to personally experience everything.
If you have the time to watch the animation you feel is up to your
moral standards, you have the time to watch "Fist."
>I do have a brain that can think
You haven't shown that here. You've shown that you made up your mind
based on others impressions and views. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh,
PsychoKick--I really don't have any problem with you personally. It's
just the whole attitude of "I heard and read it was gratuitious and
morally repugnant. Therefore, although I've never seen it, I shall
condemn it."
-Matt
Matthew Alt
Groovy" Toole) writes:
> What do you think of films that use sex and/or violence as plot
>devices, but are still _good_ films? Examples that come to mind might
be
>_Jubei Ninpucho/Ninja Scroll_ and _Supernatural Beast City_.
How about "Macross:DYRL?" I seem to remeber heads getting stepped on
and faces blown apart by weapons, all without seeming gratuitous...
-Matt
PsychoKick
says...
>
>In <49d7v2$1...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> wt...@cornell.edu (PsychoKick)
>writes:
>
>> Still, I'm never going to watch or support "La Blue Girl" or
>"Fist
>>of the North Star". Glorifying excessive, mindless, gratuitous
>violence or
>>rape merely for voyuerism is something I can't accept.
>
>
>Just a question.
>
>-Matt
Ideally, it is usually best to watch something for yourself, but
reality often doesn't work that way. Instead we often have to rely on
informed decisions. And in the case of these two titles, I'd say I've
gathered plenty of information on the net, in magazines, through people
who have actually seen the titles, etc. I'm NOT just mindlessly sitting
down and just agreeing with everyone else's opinion, I analyzed what
information I gathered, took into account the reliability of my sources,
and came to what I know is a solid, well-grounded conclusion. A lot less
work than it sounds like.
I'm getting sick of people (especially in net arguments) always
saying that the _only_ way to form a solid argument/idea is to directly
experience it youself. If that was so, then we might as well get rid of
all forms of media and information exchange, including school textbooks,
encyclopaedias and other educational resources. Yes, firsthand experience
is invaluable, and pretty much absolutely necessary in interpersonal
relationships, but most of the time it is hardly possible or practical,
especially when taken to extremes. I don't have unlimited time, money, or
resources to personally experience everything. I do have a brain that can
think and eyes that can read.
-PsychoKick
Carl Walter White, Jr
if that's corruption, then i'm all for it. it's far better to be corrupted
like newt than to be corrupted like clinton and the other communists.
--
Copyright (c) 1995 Walter White, Not for distribution on Micro$oft Network.
Senator Exon can kiss my a**! (censored for your protection.)
Coming to you live and in stereo from Atlanta Georgia, this has been...
-Walter White (c...@netcom.com)
David Griffiths
>It's a case of differing culture. Nudity isn't that big a deal in
>Japan. Hell, some of the anime's I've seen show kids and parents
>bathing together.
It's a cultural difference which many North Americans find hard to
accept. Nudity just isn't as big a deal in Japan as it is over here.
For some reason, North American values seem to have classed Nudity as
dirty, or pornographic, whereas in Japan, it's just more "naturalism".
To be quite frank, I rather think that this is one of the ways in which
Japanese society is more cultured than in North America. Which is not to
say that they don't have problems themselves, just that they're ahead of
us in this area.
--
David S. Griffiths: - <dgr...@infomatch.com> (Vancouver, Canada!)
An Arctic Animation WWW Site -> http://www.infomatch.com/~dgriff/main.htm
VJAC/LW3D/City Hunter! - Technical Director, Mendelson Films Ltd.
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: Again, anime titles such as Overfiend or La Blue Girl are not half
: as accepted by Japanese fans as they are by U.S. fans. And I'd hardly call
: that sick killer a "typical" otaku.
Well, as far as I can tell, very few true-blue anime fans are
into hardcore porn anime. It generally sells to people who don't know
much about anime, but just like smut and are interested in the novelty of
seeing it animated. At least, that's the way it is around here. The
typical Urutsukidoji fanboy has never even heard of Wings of Honneamise,
or even Ranma 1/2.
: I definitely find it very disturbing as well that tentacle/violent
: porn is so sucessful in the U.S. anime scene. Perhaps it's saying
: something about us...
SOME IDIOT: "What are you talking about? Urutsukudoji is great!"
ME: "You don't know what you're talking about."
SOME IDIOT: "Okay, name something that's cooler."
ME: "Ummm... Record of Lodoss Wars."
SOME IDIOT: "Does it have naked chicks in it?"
ME: [whap.]
SOME IDIOT: "Ow."
--
sla...@titan.oit.umass.edu -- Michael "Mr. Groovy" Toole
"Stop talking like me Mike, or I'll complain."
--Shawn Roske
PsychoKick
>
>jdgmn...@aol.com (Jdgmntcity) wrote:
>> Thou dost make little sense in your aprehensions about the
>>"questionable" content, for if thou looks at the land of the rising sun,
>>methinks you will see not only a lower level of child molestation, rape,
>>and pedophilia, but also violence.
>
>Easy on the driping sarchasm!
>
>Psychotic made a good point. Can anyone out there define why it is
>necessary for there to be as much GRATUITOUS sex, violence, and pedopeia
>eclusivly directed toward young women or girls. This question has
>nothing to do with an individuals comfort with their sexuality.
It's not necessary, it's downright juvenile. I think it would be
better if such violent sex anime was never made. However, Psychotic made
the mistake of assuming that almost all anime was very sexist (he/she/it
said 5% tentacle porn, 95% very sexist, both extremely exaggerated
percentages). Violent sex anime is not half as widespread in Japan as it's
U.S. presence may suggest.
>I don't think that many parents in Japan are that cool about some of the
>things that go on in anime like Overfiend or La Blue Girl either. If I
Nope, they aren't.
>remember correctly, there was a serial killer caught (I think his name
>was Miyazake[not the animator]) who turned out to be the typical
>perverted otaku/fanboy of such graphic anime. This stirred up an outcry
>by parents to start restricting the content or even banning such
>material. Correct me if I am wrong.
Again, anime titles such as Overfiend or La Blue Girl are not half
as accepted by Japanese fans as they are by U.S. fans. And I'd hardly call
that sick killer a "typical" otaku.
Yes, recently anime and manga in Japan has been "cleaner" due to
that incident as well as a parental uproar over a particularly explicit
manga called "Angel". I think that they've an established rating system or
something now along with overall toning down (someone on this newsgroup
said that nowadays even Ranma would have a hard time getting on Japanese
TV). Could someone verify/elaborate on this?
>Now don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of anime but the combination of
>sex and violence directed toward women that has become a regular feature
>has started to get disturbing. I thought Monster City was great(rape
>scenes were hard to watch) but the escalation of some of the harsher
>material has become a more than unbearable in anime.
I definitely find it very disturbing as well that tentacle/violent
porn is so sucessful in the U.S. anime scene. Perhaps it's saying
something about us...
-PsychoKick
Ru Igarashi
: jdgmn...@aol.com (Jdgmntcity) wrote:
: > Thou dost make little sense in your aprehensions about the
: >"questionable" content, for if thou looks at the land of the rising sun,
: >methinks you will see not only a lower level of child molestation, rape,
: >and pedophilia, but also violence.
: Easy on the driping sarchasm!
: Psychotic made a good point. Can anyone out there define why it is necessary
: for there to be as much GRATUITOUS sex, violence, and pedopeia eclusivly
: directed toward young women or girls. This question has nothing to do with an
: individuals comfort with their sexuality.
There ISN'T THAT MUCH of that kind of anime. Of the anime I've
seen in my rather short life in anime, I have not seen ANY
pedophilia, and I've seen one with gratuitous explicit sex.
I would say the extent of the problem is grossly exaggerated
by Psychotica and Kennedy, from my viewing experience.
[stuff deleted]
: Now don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of anime but the combination of sex and
: violence directed toward women that has become a regular feature has started to
: get disturbing. I thought Monster City was great(rape scenes were hard to
: watch) but the escalation of some of the harsher material has become a more
: than unbearable in anime.
Again, I don't see that happening. I DO see anime in
North America maturing, as the plots and themes become
more dramatically sophisticated. Where on earth do you
even get a hold of these "harsher material"? I sure
don't see them kicking around. Thankfully, cuz I still
don't know how to ID hentai on sight, and I would like
to steer clear of it.
Also, as some folks have pointed out, the above postings
may have been skewed by the release strategies in North
America where there seems to be a bigger appetite for
such "objectionable" content. Ya, the implication is
that NA viewers have the problem, and the type of anime
you are bothered with show that NA is the diseased one,
not the producers of the anime in question.
ru
Ken Arromdee
Vance Palodichuk <vpal...@usinternet.com> wrote:
>EXACTLY! Most anime has nudity, but it isn't expressed in a sexual manner.
>It's byond the scope of most Americans to except casual nudity. Even in
>something in like Ah! My Goddess in the fifth episode Belldandy is naked during
>the transformation. But it's in no way sexual.
Nonsense. There is plenty of anime that has gratuitous nudity in it just
for the sake of the audience. If nudity in anime really meant nothing in
Japan, there would be no reason to add "fan service" nude scenes.
--
Ken Arromdee (arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, karr...@nyx.cs.du.edu;
http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~arromdee)
"Any creature who would disguise itself as a bone, obviously has no sense of
fair play!" -- Superboy Annual #1
Arondell Hoch
writes:
>if that's corruption, then i'm all for it. it's far better to be
corrupted
>like newt than to be corrupted like clinton and the other communists.
>
Communist? Has anyone told him?
Arondell
aron...@ix.netcom.com
Gwydion
<Snip-o-rama(tm)>
>
>There ISN'T THAT MUCH of that kind of anime. Of the anime I've
>seen in my rather short life in anime, I have not seen ANY
>pedophilia, and I've seen one with gratuitous explicit sex.
>I would say the extent of the problem is grossly exaggerated
>by Psychotica and Kennedy, from my viewing experience.
>
Actually, there is one anime where pedophilia is referred to, if
obliquely... and it's not even h-anime. It's... <drum roll please>
<drums fingers>
<DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!>
<waits longer>
Fine. Anyway, it's RIDING BEAN! YES, RIDING BEAN! (sorry, I'm in a wierd
mood today). The main villian's cohort is a young girl who describes
herself quite eagerly as "so-n'-so's lover"... and also offers to go down
on the hostage.
<more ginsu action>
--
Gwydion
*****************************************************************
* To Hell with fame and fortune, I just want to get some sleep! *
*****************************************************************
Matthew Alt
writes:
> Stop ASSUMING stuff and start DEDUCING instead.
>I'm never said that this "experience it yourself" argument is
>completely invalid, I'm just fed up that everyone seems to take it to
>the EXTREME for every single situation, especially when the other
>person disagrees with them. It's a form of hiding, if you ask me.
It's hardly "EXTREME" when it involves watching a tape of a show that
you've called "excessive and gratuitous," but NEVER WATCHED. The only
person doing the hiding is the one doing the condemning.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Fist" is hardly high-class
entertainment. Ditto for "Overfiend." However, one cannot make comments
about their beauty, gratuitousness or whatever without having seen them
first. That's what this argument is about.
>And I was never "condemning" such stuff either. I never said it
>was the work of Satan or should be banned or whatnot. I just said that
>it was crap and I wouldn't watch it.
What a ringing endorsment! I'd say that calling something "crap" and
that "you wouldnt watch it" condemning it. Satan, and religion, have
nothing to do with the word.
> Your argument is invalid. We were never discussing the act, we
>were discussing a tape. Watching the tape is the very experience I was
>talking about.
Here you've just shot yourself in the foot. You just claimed that
(paraphrase) "if we continue along this path, all encyclopedias, books,
etc will be rendered useless in the face of actual experience," and
continued with another example of the (quite correct, IMHO) insanity of
having to experience rape and murder in order to know if it was wrong
or not. Thus you WEREN'T just talking about the act of watching the
tape.
>>If you have the time to watch the animation you feel is up to your
>>moral standards, you have the time to watch "Fist."
>
> No I don't (and I'm not basing this on "moral standards", I'm
>basing this on what I like). My time and life is valuable and I try to
>spend it as best as I can. I always look before I leap. And "Fist"
>isn't worth my time.
Well put, and that's perfectly your option. Honestly, you're not
missing much. The point is that YOU called it "crap," as if you had
personal experience watching it -- but you DONT! That's the point of
this whole discussion.
> Would you buy or watch a tape that _every_ single source you
>consulted, BOTH those that LIKED it and those that HATED it, said that
>it contained a lot of stuff that you didn't like? Again, you don't
>have to eat excrement to know it's excrement. The smell it raises is
>enough.
I probably wouldn't watch it. You're right on that. However, I also
wouldn't go around calling it "crap," either, as I wouldn't have seen
it.
>"Fist" raises a large smell, even among anime fans who like it.
It's hardly the worst example of a pointlessly violent work. Go out and
rent a copy of the live-action Hong Kong "Riki-Oh" for that. :)
Although I respect your desire not to watch it, I think you're judging
it a little too harshly. If you like kung-fu type flicks, you'll
probably have a liking for "Fist." if you don't, you won't. Simple.
It's just a mindless action show.
> but a group will know more than a single person
Ah! The hivemind! Just kidding. :)
>fails, then I will use the "experience it yourself" method. In the
case of
>"Fist" or "Overfiend", the latter method hasn't been necessary.
Undoubtedly not. they're pretty starightforward works. The whole point
wasn't that I thought you were stupid for not liking them (I'm not huge
fan of "Overfiend," myself) but that you were giving an opinion on a
film you'd never, ever seen.
-Matt
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: In <49f4du$1...@nic.umass.edu> sla...@twain.oit.umass.edu (Mike "Mr.
: Groovy" Toole) writes:
: >_Jubei Ninpucho/Ninja Scroll_ and _Supernatural Beast City_.
: How about "Macross:DYRL?" I seem to remeber heads getting stepped on
: and faces blown apart by weapons, all without seeming gratuitous...
Of course, but it's hardly as prominent and drawn out as stuff in
_Supernatural Beast City_. It's funny, I've never thought of DYRL has
violent... I guess I have a soft spot for Macross.
--
"But suddenly, Mr. Groovy slams the door behind you, and bashes you over
the head with the tuba. Everything goes black..."
* GAME OVER *
sla...@titan.oit.umass.edu.
Ben Kosse
>like newt than to be corrupted like clinton and the other communists.
and isn't switching sides constantly over the same issue. Besides, we know
which side is at least thinking straight, and being logical.
>Senator Exon can kiss my a**! (censored for your protection.)
You mean like that ^^ corruption?
MICHAEL C. LING
pedophelia and standards therein>, 'dma...@forest.drew.edu' wrote:
>In article <49af24$m...@pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com>, mike...@nyc.pipeline.com
>(MICHAEL C. LING) writes:
>> On Nov 26, 1995 15:54:28 in article <Anime tendencies towards pedophelia
>> and standards therein>, 'psyc...@ultratech.net (Psychotica Rex)' wrote:
>
> Ok, this is a semi-flame alert. Pesonally, I think flaming is
>petty and stupid and has no business on the internet. But this response
>REALLY bothered me. I will not flame anyone, but I am really pissed and
>want to voice my opinion:
>
I am deeply sorry that you have been offended. I was making sarcastic
and/or flippant remarks regarding anime nudity, anime sex and the strange
anime mentality behind it.
>> any sexual scenes(Akira). Even in porno anime many, sometimes most,
girls
>> are so virtuous(sp) that the only context you'd see them engaged in
sexual
>> acts are when they being raped by monsters or people; after all
upstanding
>> girls just don't willingly engage in "slutty" behavior.
>
> All I'm going to say is that if the poster can't see why this is SO
>WRONG then he's blind and a sexist pig.
Anyway, in a single offensive sentence, I was indirectly describing the
single most cynical motivation behind most rape animes and mangas, rape
used as an EXCUSE to show "nice" girls having sex, irregardless of how
violated and multilated they get in the process. It's an exagerration, but
not far enough away from the truth for comfort.
>> 99.9% of all people take off their clothes prior to putting on new
>> clothing. :)
>>
>> Then again it could be to avoid why the Hulk rip open his clothes when
he
>> transforms? or that her clothes go where her uniform and scepter was
when
>> it was in storage.
>
> Yes, but you don't end up seeing the Hulk's nads when he
>transforms. I think that's the point of the origional posters'
>objections.
Different transformation style, and it's one way trip, at least for the
clothes that is. All the other superheros have to get out of their clothes
to put on his/her funny costume, except for the ones wearing 'em inside
their clothes. If I remember his post correctly, I think he was referring
to Sailor Moon. Unless DIC's Sailor Moon's transformation sequence is
different from the original, I don't there any nudity beyond a colorful
silohuette of her body. The superheroine I think of with a nude transform
is the girl from Moldiver, but she has to strip first else her clothes get
burned off.
> Again, I'm sorry for this, but I'm truly annoyed. I'm sure that
>his post was just poorly written and I'm misinterpereting his real
message,
>but from what I can read, I'm pissed at his content.
>
When I first got your post, I was so upset that I spent five hours writing
an elaborate explanation of my statement, explaining every point in detail,
writing and re-writing it over and over, until a friend called me on the
phone and interrupted me. I told him what I was doing and just then I
realized that "I WAS WRITING MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE OVER AND OVER AGAIN,
EXCEPT IN DISGUSTING DETAIL!". I re-read the message and saw how you and
other people here would take offense at my remarks; hopefully I cleared
things and this matter has been resolved.
--
M C L -
dma...@forest.drew.edu
> In <cwwDIs...@netcom.com> c...@netcom.com (Carl Walter White, Jr)
> writes:
>
> corrupted
>>like newt than to be corrupted like clinton and the other communists.
>>
Awwww....Christ.....not THIS guy again. Him and his %$&#@*&ing
Communists....
Carl Walter White, Jr, you are just plain weird. Lay off the
Communists, okay. Can't you find some other "convienient" scapegoat to
pick on all the time?
---Dmambu
MEL...@argonet.co.uk
� something about us...
�E: "You don't know what you're talking about."
�OME IDIOT: "Okay, name something that's cooler."
�E: "Ummm... Record of Lodoss Wars."
�OME IDIOT: "Does it have naked chicks in it?"
�E: [whap.]
�OME IDIOT: "Ow."
Ano...
SOME IDIOT: "Um, could you do that again? I rather enjoyed it."
Mel-chan!
--
--. --. --. --. : : --- --- Now that my ginseng consumption has reached an
|_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | all-time high of 750mg a day, everything seems
| | |\ | | | | |\| | | somehow... fluffier. Anyone like a cuddle?
| | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | MEL...@argonet.co.uk
PsychoKick
says...
>>saying that the _only_ way to form a solid argument/idea is to
>directly
>>experience it youself.
>
>TV show, movie, or book when they haven't read or seen it. I'm sorry,
>if you havent seen it, you can't claim it's gratuitous. I'm not
You think I'm some "holier-than-thou"? What gave you that
impression? I'll have you know that my belief holds that none of us are
any "better" or "holier" than the other. Stop ASSUMING stuff and start
DEDUCING instead.
I'm never said that this "experience it yourself" argument is
completely invalid, I'm just fed up that everyone seems to take it to the
EXTREME for every single situation, especially when the other person
disagrees with them. It's a form of hiding, if you ask me.
And I was never "condemning" such stuff either. I never said it
was the work of Satan or should be banned or whatnot. I just said that it
was crap and I wouldn't watch it. You don't have to eat excrement to know
it's excrement. The smell it raises is enough.
>If that was so, then we might as well get rid of
>>all forms of media and information exchange, including school
>textbooks,
>>encyclopaedias and other educational resources. Yes, firsthand
>experience
>>is invaluable,
>
>Your argument is invalid. Nobody is asking you to go out and expeirence
>rape and violence personally. They're asking you to VIEW A TAPE of a
>show to make up your own mind about it.
Your argument is invalid. We were never discussing the act, we
were discussing a tape. Watching the tape is the very experience I was
talking about.
Are you saying that I think that watching such stuff is the same
thing as actually doing it? I don't think that way.
>
>> I don't have unlimited time, money, or
>>resources to personally experience everything.
>
>If you have the time to watch the animation you feel is up to your
>moral standards, you have the time to watch "Fist."
No I don't (and I'm not basing this on "moral standards", I'm
basing this on what I like). My time and life is valuable and I try to
spend it as best as I can. I always look before I leap. And "Fist" isn't
worth my time. On the other hand, for a person who reviews anime, it's
their job to watch "Fist" (or any anime) and thus it is worth their time.
Would you buy or watch a tape that _every_ single source you
consulted, BOTH those that LIKED it and those that HATED it, said that it
contained a lot of stuff that you didn't like? Again, you don't have to
eat excrement to know it's excrement. The smell it raises is enough.
"Fist" raises a large smell, even among anime fans who like it.
>>I do have a brain that can think
>
>You haven't shown that here. You've shown that you made up your mind
>based on others impressions and views. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh,
>PsychoKick--I really don't have any problem with you personally. It's
>just the whole attitude of "I heard and read it was gratuitious and
>morally repugnant. Therefore, although I've never seen it, I shall
>condemn it."
Oh yes I have shown it. I've shown that I can also use other
people's views and viewpoints to HELP make my own. I don't see or know
everything, and neither does anyone else, but a group will know more than
a single person, even if they don't agree with each other. I've many times
watched and enjoyed anime that no one else liked, simply because I
analyzed their reactions and descriptions, ignoring their _opinions_, and
came to MY OWN conclusions. I don't make snap reflex decisions. I do what
could be considered a form of detective work. And where detective work
fails, then I will use the "experience it yourself" method. In the case of
"Fist" or "Overfiend", the latter method hasn't been necessary.
-PsychoKick
MEL...@argonet.co.uk
�erself quite eagerly as "so-n'-so's lover"
"Semmer[ling]'s lover". Carrie is in the 10-12 range, and is the partner and
(we are obliged to extrapolate) sex slave of Semmerling, who beats the little
girl quite viciously (and probably regularly - again we have to imagine this
ugliness for ourselves). Carrie happily obey's Semmer's requests, even after a
beating, and even boasts of her bedroom talents, clearly held utterly in sway by
the older woman's physical and emotional domination.
The reason for this relationship being so graphically present in what is
essentially a car chase comedy would seem to be to establish the _real_ villains
of the piece, since the 'hero' is an almost psychotic maniac who is more than
happy to prostitute his services to thieves and murderers, and who can only seem
positive when set against a sociopathic child molester.
(However, Sonoda's recent revelation about his own fascination with the
sexuality of under-age girls (a Lolita Complex, or just paedophilia?), casts
some question as to the motives behind Carrie's inclusion, and gives one cause
to wonder just which aspects of the relationship we are expected to condemn and
which we are merely expected to observe.)
The fact that Semmerling uses Carrie as a gunpoint hostage against Bean, and
later shoots her in the back to stop her giving away the location of the money,
tells us that 'love' is certainly not Semmer's justification for the sexual
aspects of the 'partnership', and that she only ever saw Carrie as a tool to be
used and discarded at will, be it to protect her interests or satisfy her lust.
�.. and also offers to go down on the hostage.
Not exactly, but she does offer to clean his penis and help him urinate into a
bottle, and her demeanor could certainly be construed as a sexual advance.
Therefore, her movement toward his crotch is, most likely, a prelude to oral
sex. Carrie has clearly been taught by her mistress that acceptance comes from
sexual favours, and, like any child, Carrie is desperate to please.
Although we know nothing of her origins, it is likely that Carrie has been
controlled by Semmer for some time, and possibly sees Mr Greenwood (Grimwood?)
as a surrogate father figure, so she seeks to win his approval and respect by
fellating him, thus both giving him pleasure and demonstrating the skills she
has learnt in his 'absence'.
Mel
Ru Igarashi
: In article <b1b7cb$aa7...@usinternet.com>,
: Vance Palodichuk <vpal...@usinternet.com> wrote:
: >EXACTLY! Most anime has nudity, but it isn't expressed in a sexual manner.
: >It's byond the scope of most Americans to except casual nudity. Even in
: >something in like Ah! My Goddess in the fifth episode Belldandy is naked during
: >the transformation. But it's in no way sexual.
: Nonsense. There is plenty of anime that has gratuitous nudity in it just
: for the sake of the audience. If nudity in anime really meant nothing in
: Japan, there would be no reason to add "fan service" nude scenes.
Of course it means something. But it just isn't a big deal.
Not as big a deal as psyochotica originally made it out to be
anyways.
ru
PsychoKick
says...
>It's hardly "EXTREME" when it involves watching a tape of a show that
>you've called "excessive and gratuitous," but NEVER WATCHED. The only
>person doing the hiding is the one doing the condemning.
>
>I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Fist" is hardly high-class
>entertainment. Ditto for "Overfiend." However, one cannot make comments
>about their beauty, gratuitousness or whatever without having seen them
>first. That's what this argument is about.
Unless that show actually is excessive and gratuitous in a
mind-blitheringly obvious way. In the case for such straigtforward works
such as Overfiend and Fist, seeing them isn't necessary. A little looking
is all it takes to see their crappiness. You seem to be thinking that I go
off all the time criticizing/praising stuff without seeing it first. I
don't. I do such things very rarely and only when I KNOW my conclusion is
true, and that only happens with such straightforward works as Overfiend
or Fist.
>What a ringing endorsment! I'd say that calling something "crap" and
>that "you wouldnt watch it" condemning it. Satan, and religion, have
>nothing to do with the word.
We seem to have different meanings of the word condemn here. To
me, condemning involves other people, not just your own opinion (ie:
"Don't watch this stuff, it has gratuitous violence and sex and a bad
plot" is a condemnation. "This stuff is crap because etc..." is not.) and
it does not necessarily involve religion (my usage of Satan was merely for
effect). I was merely criticizing. I never said not to watch it. I can
call something "crap" and not condemn it. Only reviewers can condemn
things, because that's their job.
>Here you've just shot yourself in the foot. You just claimed that
>(paraphrase) "if we continue along this path, all encyclopedias, books,
>etc will be rendered useless in the face of actual experience," and
>continued with another example of the (quite correct, IMHO) insanity of
>having to experience rape and murder in order to know if it was wrong
>or not. Thus you WEREN'T just talking about the act of watching the
>tape.
No I didn't. As I said, watching something is an experience
itself. Think about it. The bits I mentioned about rape and murder were
only for example and were not integral to the situation we were talking
about (though they seemed appropriate with the subject matter). I could
have used any action whatsoever.
>Well put, and that's perfectly your option. Honestly, you're not
>missing much. The point is that YOU called it "crap," as if you had
>personal experience watching it -- but you DONT! That's the point of
>this whole discussion.
Something as straightforward as the crap we mentioned doesn't need
actual viewing to know it's crap.
>I probably wouldn't watch it. You're right on that. However, I also
>wouldn't go around calling it "crap," either, as I wouldn't have seen
>it.
Again, if it smells like crap, looks like crap, feels like crap,
sounds like crap, then I don't need to actually consume it to know it is
crap.
>It's hardly the worst example of a pointlessly violent work. Go out and
>rent a copy of the live-action Hong Kong "Riki-Oh" for that. :)
>Although I respect your desire not to watch it, I think you're judging
>it a little too harshly. If you like kung-fu type flicks, you'll
>probably have a liking for "Fist." if you don't, you won't. Simple.
>It's just a mindless action show.
I like mindless action just as much as the next guy, but not
mindless gore. I KNOW I won't like Fist, given the reports from everything
I've read/heard/whatever (poor animation quality, mindless gore, thin
plot).
My opinion is irrelevant. BUT the evidence they are based on
isn't. The list of bad points I KNOW are true make Fist crap (a poor
quality anime), regardless if I would have liked it or not. Same for
Overfiend. Some people like crap. Fine. Doesn't change the fact that it's
crap.
>Ah! The hivemind! Just kidding. :)
Or a democracy. Both very different incarnations of the same idea.
>Undoubtedly not. they're pretty starightforward works. The whole point
>wasn't that I thought you were stupid for not liking them (I'm not huge
>fan of "Overfiend," myself) but that you were giving an opinion on a
>film you'd never, ever seen.
Which I only do for such obvious straightforward works. I guess I
should have mentioned this much earlier in the thread. BTW, I never once
thought you thought I was stupid for not liking that crap.
-PsychoKick
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Fist" is hardly high-class
: entertainment. Ditto for "Overfiend." However, one cannot make comments
: about their beauty, gratuitousness or whatever without having seen them
: first. That's what this argument is about.
Maybe not-- however, one can formulate one's own opinion about
such works by taking a look at the reactions of others', as well as
reading the back of the box.
: What a ringing endorsment! I'd say that calling something "crap" and
: that "you wouldnt watch it" condemning it. Satan, and religion, have
: nothing to do with the word.
Bulldada. He's just expressing his opinion about the work, based
on the reactions of his acquaintances and what he knows about the work
already. Nothing wrong with that.
: Although I respect your desire not to watch it, I think you're judging
: it a little too harshly. If you like kung-fu type flicks, you'll
: probably have a liking for "Fist." if you don't, you won't. Simple.
: It's just a mindless action show.
It's low-brow comedy, that's what it is. ^_^
: Undoubtedly not. they're pretty starightforward works. The whole point
: wasn't that I thought you were stupid for not liking them (I'm not huge
: fan of "Overfiend," myself) but that you were giving an opinion on a
: film you'd never, ever seen.
Like Bob Dole!
--
sla...@titan.oit.umass.edu -- Michael "Mr. Groovy" Toole
"THEOCRACY, n, A form of government by Malcom Jamal Warner directly or
through those who have intently studied his words and deeds."
--Joe Bay
PsychoKick
to continue. Think whatever you want about me or whatnot. There's too much
of a gap between our ideas on this matter. Not unbridgeable, but it'll be
more work than I want to put in through this newsgroup. No disrespect
meant, but I've just said all I want to say, and I'm certain it will be
misinterpreted anyway. Any replies to this message will be ignored.
-PsychoKick
MEL...@argonet.co.uk
��Matt
Actually, I found the 'head-stamping' moment quite grotesque, appearing as it
did completely out of place with the general tone of the movie.
Although there is no love lost between me and the BBFC, I am frankly stunned
that this made it through in a PG movie. I suspect (and correct me if I'm
wrong, censorship fans) that the BBFC simply watched the dubbed version (Clash
of the Bionoids), which was also heavily edited, and then gave the same cert to
the subtitled film, which they were led to believe was the same film in a
different language.
This wouldn't be the first time this has happened - viz. the blanket
certificating of BubbleGum Crisis based on the first episode for example.
Mel-chan!
Mark L. Neidengard
Ken Arromdee <arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <b1b7cb$aa7...@usinternet.com>,
>Vance Palodichuk <vpal...@usinternet.com> wrote:
>>EXACTLY! Most anime has nudity, but it isn't expressed in a sexual manner.
>>It's byond the scope of most Americans to except casual nudity. Even in
>>something in like Ah! My Goddess in the fifth episode Belldandy is naked during
>>the transformation. But it's in no way sexual.
>
>Nonsense. There is plenty of anime that has gratuitous nudity in it just
>for the sake of the audience. If nudity in anime really meant nothing in
>Japan, there would be no reason to add "fan service" nude scenes.
Yup. While it seems clear that there is a substantially _more_ liberal
attitude towards nudity (and perhaps sexuality, or at least sexual humor),
it can still be taken "to excess". To my mind, it seems that the trend across
the industry is toward a more "open" viewpoint. Certainly bath scenes and
other such devices are becoming more common, even in TV series (Tenchi TV,
for example).
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Introspector Wanted, Inquire Within Self
> My opinion is irrelevant. BUT the evidence they are based on
>isn't. The list of bad points I KNOW are true make Fist crap (a poor
>quality anime), regardless if I would have liked it or not. Same for
>Overfiend. Some people like crap. Fine. Doesn't change the fact that it's
>crap.
Y'know, I seem to recall an old proverb about not judging a book by its
cover...
If you don't want to watch it based on what you've heard about it, that's
fine. That's your decision to make. Just say so. But don't say "I don't
want to watch it because it's crap." Say "I don't want to watch it because
WHAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT IT FROM OTHER PEOPLE HAS LED ME TO BELIEVE it's
crap." [emphasis mine] I think that's all that the other side in this
argument wants...
--
Chris Meadows aka | Author, Team M.E.C.H.A., Crapshoot & Co.
Robotech_Master | on the Superguy Listserv (bit.listserv.superguy)
robo...@jurai.net | **TAKE NOTE!** My homepage has changed to
chm...@nic.smsu.edu | http://www.jurai.net/~robotech/index.html
MEL...@argonet.co.uk
�quality anime), regardless if I would have liked it or not. Same for
�Overfiend. Some people like crap. Fine. Doesn't change the fact that it's
�crap.
Although no one will argue the fact that you are entitled to your opinion, it it
precisely this kind of mentality that has messed this world up from day one. I
don't particularly like either of the titles mentioned (I've seen them), and
would consider debating the assertation of anyone that either was
top-of-the-range stuff, but it is still not on to state that something
_definitively_ is 'crap' simply because you think it is, regardless of where
your evidence comes from.
On top of this, you say your opinion is irrelevant, then immediately state your
opinion as the basis of your argument.
Incidentally, 'Fist' is crap, but then I've seen it, and that's just my opinion.
Mel-chan
Carl Walter White, Jr
>Awwww....Christ.....not THIS guy again. Him and his %$&#@*&ing
>Communists....
>
>Carl Walter White, Jr, you are just plain weird. Lay off the
>Communists, okay. Can't you find some other "convienient" scapegoat to
>pick on all the time?
we've been over this democrat/communist thing in other threads in this
news group and i'm not going to re-hash it here. i'm just calling a duck
a duck and will continue to do so. and what a mighty ugly duck it is too.
every time one of those ugly ducks tries to inflame class envy (listen
for the keyword "worker"), you should have a feeling that you read about
that in your politics/history class when covering marx, lenin and their
ilk.
also, please note that i don't scapegoat them. i am only calling them
communists instead of democrats because i don't want to help them continue
their deception. and i only bring it up when some child bad mouths the
other parties in a way that leads me to believe he has bought into the
crap that the left spews forth on all of us.
i know there are other republicans/libertarians on this news group. why
do all of you let crap like the original message i responded to slide by.
i've been following this news group for a few years now and have been on
the net many more years than that. i finally got tired of that kind of
crap at the start of november. i won't be the first to bring up politics
here, but i will return fire (as time permits me to) when someone else does
(unless i agree with them).
wondering how many kill files he has made it into since nov. 1, this was...
--
Copyright (c) 1995 Walter White, Not for distribution on Micro$oft Network.
Senator Exon can kiss my a**! (censored for your protection.)
Harry Payne
"Everything is lewd:
"I could tell you things about Peter Pan
"And the Wizard of Oz - there's a dirty old man!"
Tom Lehrer, 1965. Plus ca change...
--
| Harry Payne: 5/6 Ferry Road Grove, Crewe Toll, Edinburgh, Scotland EH4 4BG |
| Renaissance Fan: Anime/Books/Comics/Filk/Furries/Media/Toons/Trek/etc... |
Michael Pierre
:> *sigh* I suppose it's unfortunate that Urotsukidoji is the first example
:> that comes to mind when people need a "porno" anime to mention. It has a
:> lot more redeeming qualities than almost all other hard-core stuff; more in
:> fact than many "straight" titles. I will agree that the "fan-boys" can be
:> pretty loathesome.
You are correct. Urotsukidoji would be the first thing I would think of, in
terms of "porno" anime. I mean they just banned it from British Columbia,
Canada a while ago or so. I do remember there being nudity in Ranma « and
there is definately in Sailor Moon, but... I really wouldn't call this porno
tho. I would call it "nudity without nudity." :)
-
___ _ _ __ _ _ _ _
|_ | |_)|_ |_)|_|| | . HighLanDeR . FoReVeR KNighT . X-FiLES .
| _|_| \|__|_)| ||__|__ . SaiLOR MooN . RanMa « . TeKNomaN . ReBOOT .
@yonet.org
. Michael Pierre . . Rei HinO/SaiLOR MarS FoReVeR! .
... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.
Mark L. Neidengard
kevin oconnell <lumr...@indy.net> wrote:
>Psychotica Rex (psyc...@ultratech.net) wrote:
>: Excuse me, I may be new here(VERY NEW). But this seems the only place I
>: can ever hope to get an intelligable response.
>: Yo! Net, and other local and Internation (Non-internet) nets have proven
>: futile for no one is willing to touch this subject. I require some feed back
>: if you will.
>
>: Here be the 32000 dollar question:Why are anime writers/producers/etc so
>: seemingly obsessed with pedophelia. Upon no other entertainment media can
>: you find so many renditions of nude,naked, even those engaging in sexual acts
>: as you can in anime. I love the stuff, I think it is a high standard.
>: However the producers are including ever more sex and nudity(what of it you
>: can show with pen and ink:>) and this is taking away from the entire
>: industry. For instance I've heard of SEX-SCENES(yes they are mostly coverd
>: up and you can't see much, even though it is only a cartoon) in anime-series
>: directed towards children! This I find to be somewhat obscene! Why for
>: example is it necessary to strip Sailor Moon nude whence she doth transform?
Nothing is _necessary_, including watching the anime in the first place =)
As for the transformation sequences, it seems reasonable for a person to go
through a brief period of nakedness while changing clothes. At least, that's
how it works for me =) The fact that they show any transformation at all is
some sort of time-honored convention. Exactly how long, and how lovingly
they detail that transformation is at least somewhat a function of who they
think their audience is. If you notice, the transformations in Sailor Moon
got progressively more...detailed as the producers realized that they were
hitting an audience bigger than just young girls. Certainly, such "wholesome"
series as A!MG also have transformations in them, whose nature does not seem
to be to appeal primarily to people's sexual sense...
> Why do you say sex and nudity 'take away' from the industry? It's a throw-
>away statement. Could it be that you just don't like sex and nudity and
>are in fear for your mortal soul if you see. Go read the Bible and stop
>watching anime and you'll be allright.
Wonderful sarcasm, and not all that constructive in a rational discussion
context either. I believe his point was that by including _gratuitous_
nudity and sex, the percentage of worthwhile material in the anime is being
correspondingly lowered. Why damage an otherwise "elevated" story with
inappropriate sexual material? Worse, by lowering the reputation of the
industry as a whole, potential afficionados can be turned away before
experiencing some of the "worthwhile" material. It does seem to be the case
that the definition of "reasonable" used in Japan is somewhat more liberal
than that used in the U.S., and that's just a cultural difference that people
must contend with. However, I will also come down on the side that wishes for
_moderation_ and discipline in making the anime. Guardress is one of the best
examples I know of where there was some innuendo and "adult" content, but where
that content was rigorously controlled and did not ruin the story as a whole.
> There are no sex scenes directed toward children. There are some adult
>anime and they are directed towards adults.
I would not be nearly as confident in making that statement...
> Your inflamitory subject line for this post is irresponsible. It's like me
>coming up to you in public and declairing you are a pedophile out loud.
>It is now up to you to prove that you are not a pedophile.
Can you really expect to be taken seriously when you are generating such
"inflamatory" shlock as this?
Mark L. Neidengard
Mike "Mr. Groovy" Toole <sla...@twain.oit.umass.edu> wrote:
>PsychoKick (wt...@cornell.edu) wrote:
>: Again, anime titles such as Overfiend or La Blue Girl are not half
>: as accepted by Japanese fans as they are by U.S. fans. And I'd hardly call
>: that sick killer a "typical" otaku.
>
> Well, as far as I can tell, very few true-blue anime fans are
>into hardcore porn anime. It generally sells to people who don't know
>much about anime, but just like smut and are interested in the novelty of
>seeing it animated. At least, that's the way it is around here. The
>typical Urutsukidoji fanboy has never even heard of Wings of Honneamise,
>or even Ranma 1/2.
*sigh* I suppose it's unfortunate that Urotsukidoji is the first example that
comes to mind when people need a "porno" anime to mention. It has a lot more
redeeming qualities than almost all other hard-core stuff; more in fact than
many "straight" titles. I will agree that the "fan-boys" can be pretty
loathesome.
>SOME IDIOT: "What are you talking about? Urutsukudoji is great!"
>ME: "You don't know what you're talking about."
My advice would be to go out and watch "this list" of titles, and then come
back and rate Urotsukidoji. People _might_ be slightly excused for not having
the proper context to put such material into...
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: *sigh* I suppose it's unfortunate that Urotsukidoji is the first example that
: comes to mind when people need a "porno" anime to mention. It has a lot more
: redeeming qualities than almost all other hard-core stuff; more in fact than
: many "straight" titles. I will agree that the "fan-boys" can be pretty
: loathesome.
Alright, I concede-- Urotsukidoji isn't as blatantly pornographic
as La Blue Girl. However, it has naughty tentacles, which go a *LONG*
way as far as shock value is concerned. People see that stuff once-- and
then they remember it.
: >SOME IDIOT: "What are you talking about? Urutsukudoji is great!"
: >ME: "You don't know what you're talking about."
: My advice would be to go out and watch "this list" of titles, and then come
: back and rate Urotsukidoji. People _might_ be slightly excused for not having
: the proper context to put such material into...
I've seen part 1 of Urotsujidoji, and many of the other titles
mentioned. While not being as intelligence-insulting as some titles,
it's still ka-ka IMO. ^_^
Mark L. Neidengard
Matthew Alt <goj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <49tjaf$d...@gap.cco.caltech.edu> mnei...@chop.ugcs.caltech.edu
>(Mark L. Neidengard) writes:
>
>>> Your inflamitory subject line for this post is irresponsible. It's
>>>like me coming up to you in public and declairing you are a pedophile
>>>out loud. It is now up to you to prove that you are not a pedophile.
>
>::>Can you really expect to be taken seriously when you are generating
>::>such "inflamatory" shlock as this?
>
>(or any time for that matter), guaranteed to get a huge response.
I was referring primarily to his comment that it was up to his quotee to prove
that he was not a pedophile. And I would dispute te claim tht the "loadedness"
of the term pedophilia makes it inappropriate for a subject header.
>And can YOU really expect to be taken seriously when you enter a
>discussion thread that has been going on for weeks as if it had just
>started? Your quoted text was weeks old.
News propagation delay my friend. Learn to know it and love it. =)
Mark L. Neidengard
>: *sigh* I suppose it's unfortunate that Urotsukidoji is the first example that
>: comes to mind when people need a "porno" anime to mention. It has a lot more
>: redeeming qualities than almost all other hard-core stuff; more in fact than
>: many "straight" titles. I will agree that the "fan-boys" can be pretty
>: loathesome.
>
> Alright, I concede-- Urotsukidoji isn't as blatantly pornographic
>as La Blue Girl. However, it has naughty tentacles, which go a *LONG*
>way as far as shock value is concerned. People see that stuff once-- and
>then they remember it.
That's definitely true. Just because Urotsukidoji isn't "as bad" as some of
the other stuff doesn't make it above reproach =)
Gwydion
>"When correctly viewed,
>"Everything is lewd:
>"I could tell you things about Peter Pan
>"And the Wizard of Oz - there's a dirty old man!"
In addition...
"As the Judge remarked when he aquitted my Aunt Hortence
To be smut it must be ut-
erly without redeeming social importance."
Again, Tom Leher.
Psychotica Rex
question, it's not true.
ake> Here are a few things to think
about for you:
Listen you inept twit, I have no
time for ill founded
assumptions and ambiguous statements. If
I knew not the word
I would not hath used it thou
insufferable twit!
Paedophilia in this case refers to the
use of nudity
(renditions agreed) to depict minors upon
national television
in the form of anime I find is very
insidious as the lawyer
seeking "loop holes" is, although legal
is hardly fair/
ethical. And if you wanted to give a
reference why not chose
"alt.sex.fetish.paedophilia" or something
like that, I did
research paedophilia whence first I heard
the word, I KNOW
what I be talking about little boy. I
research and understand
concepts WELL BEFORE I decide to bring
them to public scrutiny
so that I may tear lesser-informed twits
as ye to shreds who
doth attempt to defend it with no idea as
to what a precedent
is or at least how it can affect even
good judgement. Thine
rant be trivial, but you humour me, so
let me humour thee.
Secondly. I did not say, have never
said, nor will ever
say (unless the situation changes
drastically.) that anime has
"a lot of sex" in it (allot is one
word.)! Read it again and
you might discover this. You refer to
U.S. tastes, well U.S.
tastes are not mine, nor are they
Canadian. We have higher
standards...hell we HAVE standards
(C.R.T.C. take a bow...just
one.). As for sex scenes or love scenes
or nudity on
television hither to...NOTHING is EVER
shown. And if you CAN
find it it is either on one of those
adult channels or at
ungodly hours of the morning/night on
specialty channels (Or
on American channels).
One can not sever the connection
between nudity and
pornography by saying it doth not exist
in YOUR world (Has yet
to be identified by science.).
Pornography is invariably linked with
said behaviour and
THAT is undeniable...so perhaps in an
oblique/obscure way, but
anime is connected with sex whence it
indulges in nudity.
Contrary to popular belief I AM AN
ANIME FAN, a regular
otoku if you will! I have every Sailor
Moon episode taped on
VHS (Time takingly edited to remove
commercials and such.) and
I intend to continue with this endeavour.
The point of quandary and contention
(If you will.) was
originally was if the
producers/writers/animators of anime
were preconditioned towards condoning
paedophilia, or using it
for insidious increases in commercialism!
Again, read the
original question again and you would
find this.
We don't need bad Anime editing c/o DIC
or whom ever to
exemplify the bad tastes, trite choices
and general
lowest-common-denominator television we
hath received from the
U.S..
This is why I posted HERE, where anime
fans are most
numerous and I have had rave-reviews of
said frequency. To
avoid presumptuous, contentious and inept
responses to a VALID
quandary that I did seek to ease.
If thou can not put aside thine
misconceptions and
presumptions for a moment to put a fellow
anime lovers mind at
ease then perhaps you should be watching
less and thinking
more! Don't offer advice if you don't
have any.
G'day!
Psychotica Rex
believessailor moon to be
jdg> very attractive when she doth strip
herself of earthly
jdg> burdens and return to nature.
That doth be anticipated laddy. I
guess not all can be
expected to maintain the viewing
standards of the CRTC and the
Canadian public upon their own behalf.
jdg> as long as certain people enjoy
seeing these naughty
jdg> bits, why not give them what they
want?
So you shall just give up? I apologies
if my standards and
integrity force me to strive for a higher
common denominator.
I do not cease my own struggle for
decency until the
alternate be vanquished. Just because a
paedophile wants
paedo-sex legalized doth that infer that
we should do so? I
think not, the greater demand is not
always a way to attain
the greater good. For sometimes that
masses are wrong, alas
might doth not make right.
jdg> Children's minds will be corrupted
far more by
jdg> right-wing politics, racism,
sexism, and the
jdg> violence with real people they can
see on TV
jdg> any day than by a nude cartoon.
Children's minds are incredibly adept
and are not so easily
corrupted. The corrupt will not instill
this into their
children unless their children as well
are inherently corrupt.
'Tis not a question of corruption, but
innocence lost, even in
a world of America, what we do have, we
should not squander.
It seems these replies/attacks, and
hence forth my rebuttals
are becoming more aggressive and more
personal. I'm not one
for slinging mud, but may I remind you
that:
*Freedom X Security
= K.*
jdg> P.S. never make me speak in Ye Olde
English again, it is
jdg> punishable by death...
Tough, "I yam what I yam"<Popeye the
sailor man>.=:>
G'day!
P.S.: About "punishable by death"...I'm
more malicious,
psychotic, evil, vicious.....hehehehe, I
Don't think so.
Psychotica Rex
Please, either Rex, Psychotic or
Psychotica Rex, but I am
not Psycho-man...he's a dolt crasher whom
I have pummelled
many times (none the less he not be very
bright.)...
lum> what we givethem credit for here in
the west.
Perhaps the Americans but not me,
please, for future
reference, assume nothing of me, it's
safer for thine face. I
am neither CHRISTIAN, or any other type
of deity-follower, I
am strictly impartial to the concept of
god, 'a nice story but
not my idea of a good time'. Why does
anyone think that if
one has standards about what is
appropriate or tasteful then
you MUST be Christian, worst of all that
thou art conservative
even so? I don't get along with most of
the christians I know
because they're ultra-conservative and I
THINK that I'm quite
liberal and they can not fathom how I can
accept others for
what they are. But on with the
melodrama...
lum> You have made the mistake of
'hearing' about something
lum> and not checking with the facts.
Ahem, I have made no such mistake. I
heard something and I
asked HERE to see if it was true, this is
where there are more
people "in the know" than anywhere else I
doth transverse
young'n. Again do not assume...I LIKE
anime... I am merely
disturbed at the precedent that I hath
born witness to over
past years...
lum> Why do you say sex and nudity 'take
away' from the
lum> industry?
Because it is an enjoyable art form,
and to think they
inject this precedent into it seems to
detract from it and
hence takes away. It be great without it
and the nudity
within IS THROWAWAY. The statement is
valid! (Do you even
know what a throwaway statement is and
that you should never
accuse another of using one unless you
have only 3 brain cells
left in your body?)
lum> Could it be that you just don't
like sex and nudity and
lum> are in fear for your mortal soul if
you see. Go read
lum> the Bible and stop watching anime
and you'll be
lum> allright.
What the hell are you on?!?!?!?!
AHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Thanks
man, that gave me hours of riotous
laughter! I don't see you
zealots 'oft enough!
Assume nothing...or not! ahahaha, I go
read a bible "...as
if..."<Sailor Moon, English, DIC>! "you
don't know me vewey
well do ye..."<Tweety Bird>?!?!?!
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I'm not
going to touch this, people like you
don't need my help over
the edge of reality...go back from whence
wayward wane. To a
world of never never thoughts, of
pampered minds and
monogamous society. Whence ye doth
transverse whence wayward
wane ye may converse with like minded
zealots, who's only goal
is to rout of the heart of all evil,
freedom of thought and
all those who would question thine
preconception. Alas the
greater evil hath been identified, burn
the flag, burn the
constitution, burn the world!
"Ha ha"<Nelson, Simpsons>, I laugh at
thine ineptitude! I
doth be atheist to some denomination
little man!
lum> Your inflamitory subject line for
this post is
lum> irresponsible.
Seeking confirmation of a disturbing
precedent is hardly
irresponsible, perhaps if you had read
PAST the title then you
would know the question behind such and
be able to save face
by transversing whence wayward wane for
ye doth be out of
thine league laddy. Besides which I did
not, nor ever have
said that child. Thine mind is nothing
to me or anyone else
who considers themselves numbered amongst
the unwashed hoards
of civil humanity.=:>
lum> It's like me coming up to you in
public and declaring
lum> you are a pedophile out loud.
With out proof you would soon become
little boy who cried
wolf. Thine credibility would be
nullified and I would be
sanctified for being beyond reproach.
Besides, you'd never
get a conviction for I AM beyond reproach
youngster.
lum> It is now up to you to prove that
you are not a
lum> pedophile.
You have no idea what thou doth banter
at this ungodly hour,
so until thou doth comprehend ones own
words....later!
G'day!-Most fun, shall we try another
round lacking child?-
*Apologies to those who must bear witness
to this response,
but A:He deserves it, B:He needs it,
C:He'll never learn
otherwise, D:Its funny to watch, E:No
harm can come to his
psyche when he is almost brain-dead to
begin with. 'Tis true
fun cutting into yuppie-spawn!
Psychotica Rex
children's anime.
It was a rumour I had heard and I
wanted to know if it was
true or not. To your knowledge thou hath
not born witness to
any. Thank you, you are one of the first
mature respondents I
have yet to hear...why do they take it so
personally? One
child even called me a Christian!
AHAHA!(I'm going to laugh
about that for SOME time!(..."go read a
bible"...ahahaha!) I
have heard from this base as well that
there was a particular
episode that the producers attempted to
pass off that was NOT
acceptable to the parents of the viewers
and there was a
massive phone in (True/False to the best
of thine knowledge of
course.).
ata> The nudity depicted in those anime
are usually limited
ata> to bath and shower scenes (ie.
Ranma 1/2, MS Gundam).
This is as I have witnessed, although I
was uncertain as to
the extent of the precedent. I know it
is innocent enough in
its presentation however its purpose has
been inferred to be
for commercialism and that my dear Ataru
is insidious!
ata> ...mature TV series such as Dr.
Slump and Space Cobra
ata> that...for adults (My mom never
wanted me to watch
ata> either when I was little).
Aye, 'tis typical, it be getting on air
at some time, but at
least it be restricted to times whence
most parents can
restrict their children's viewing
habits(young children...no
need to rush sexuality at such a tender
age.). One can not
restrict freedom of artistic expression,
but the least one can
do is restrict it to display to
sufficiently mature audiences
(This perception as to what age may vary
from culture to
culture.) doth ye not concur?
ata> TV anime. Perhaps you're talking
about OVAs that are
ata> targeting young adults/teenagers
not much older than
ata> the characters...
Those were some rumours I doth hear
and of which I speak,
also the broad cast hath been brought to
my attention have
been restricted to minor nudity whereas
others of OAV series
and non-broadcast rights authorized have
been of flesh-flick
denomination.
ata> over the transformation sequences
in Sailor Moon R
ata> unless they were confused to begin
with (ie.
ata> repressed and ignorant).
That is without saying...it is not
confused, it is merely
rushing young'n's into sexuality and the
proverbial rat-race
whence they have not enjoyed their
childhoods yet. I see no
need to rush the departure of innocence
(Ignorance yes,
innocence no.). Me thinks it not be a
question of repression,
confusion, ignorance, intolerance,
anti-whatever-sentiment and
like factors but rather one of
restricting the content to
display to an audience of appropriate age
groups. (This is
what many responses seem to forget by the
end of their message
and initiate character deformation and
"mud-slinging".)
G'day!-Worthy points noted, data stored,
comment welcome!-
Psychotica Rex
rec.games.video.sony a month
ser> ago who raised a similar question
and got stomped. That
ser> could not have been you right?
No, I venture not into games and such,
I care not for them
hence I doth not so indulge. If he was
stomped, perhaps he
asked without tact or inappropriately or
the people answering
are a little to sensitive to look at the
issues impartially
and so-enlighten said individual.
I myself am a grand anime fan (As
limited as my access is
here in Canada.) and whence I draw forth
a point of quandary,
valid in all respects and tactfully
divulged, zealots converge
as white cells in the body to a foreign
organism (I'm not
saying I don't appreciate the
attention...=:>).
I had one fellow accuse me of
paedophilia. Another told be
to "...go read a bible and you'll feel
better..." which I
found a real hoot...he doth not know me
very well.=:> Others
which were to vulgar to repeat that I
doth receive in E-Mail
and will promptly post back publicly
(Edited to please the
moderators.) because they can not HIDE
their vulgarity and
ignorance in private sessions to a public
request.
A valid question deserves a valid
answer, shall ye provide
one or were you just hoping to sling some
mud as well?
G'day!
Psychotica Rex
"lolicon", as it's
con> often shortened on Japanese media)
is a widespread
con> phenomenon in Japanese society.
Ok, but what the heck does "Lolita
Complex" aka "lolicon"
mean?!?! Japanese are inherently
"lolicon" doesn't mean much
to one who hath never heard the word
before.=:>
PR> Upon no other entertainment media
can you find so many
PR> renditions of nude, naked, even
those engaging in
PR> sexual acts as you can in anime.
con> When was the last time you watched
an American movie?
con> ^_^;
I honestly don't rate american "movies"
as either
entertainment, art, or even expression.
I don't like what
Americans consider entertainment so I
save myself the
self-mutilation by avoiding said
media.=:> I made reference
but to my own experience of late, so I
think I can be forgiven
for being somewhat unexperienced as of
this date. I know it
is somewhat presumptuous, but of late the
last anime I have
born witness to ALL contained nudity, and
FLAUNTING nudity at
that and it disturbs me seeing anime
Americanized. It is a
disturbing precedent is it not? =:<
Perhaps I fear the
increasing Americanization of Anime and
the precedent stated
would be a symptom of such.
con> another person's, triply so when
said persons come from
con> different cultures.
That is what I am here to confirm or
deny, to find consensus
or at least majority and make an INFORMED
decision. Why does
everyone assume I hate anime or have
never seen any before
sailor moon? I said I was new to the
newsgroup, not the
scene. People certainly take it
personally, and they don't
even bother to read the header FULLY, if
they did they would
find I'm not smashing anime (Or if they
did they saw only what
they wanted to see.).
con> Your definitions of "obscene" and
"nude" differ from
con> mine, obviously.
Correct, although I find nothing much
obscene for everything
has its place I find that inappropriate
viewing materials
directed towards children doth strike a
tender cord. nude?
Now how can that differ, breasts exposed
to the world (That's
considered an insult here if someone does
that to you...or a
come on...(we're increasingly
Americanized every day)), full
frontal nudity, etc... I think the pubic
areas whence
disclosed (as they are with pen and ink.)
are considered
nudity.
con> We're shown an outline of the
character, as her uniform
con> magically appears around her. I
don't count that as
con> nudity, and certainly not as
obscene, it's a very nice
con> symbolic rendering of her power
coming from within.
con> Perhaps YOU are the one with the
hangups, seeing sexual
con> references where there are none.
THE ORIGINAL sailor moon was a NUDE
rendition as I have
heard it, I see nothing wrong ethically
with Sailor moon in
its English format however knowing the
Japanese willingly
condone such behaviour I found quite
disturbing. That is the
precedent that I wished denied or at
least explained...for
better or worse.
con> What's CRTC?
C.R.T.C. Canadian Radio & Television
Commission, they set
viewing standards and enforce
transmission regulations in
Canada, such as the Karla Holmoka
Publicity Ban and Make sure
as LITTLE rubbish as legally possible
makes it into Canada.
They also police child pornography, S&M
pornography, and
transmission of pirated and
anti-regulatory materials. They
generally run the air waves and such
across the whole of
Canada. (This is one of the greater
reasons we have not been
so americanized as one would expect.)
They also govern rates
and monopolies for communications such as
Bell, Sprint, etc...
(telephone, cellular, etc...)
G'day!
Psychotica Rex
last time you watched
ru> an American *TV* show? *cackle*
I keep to the decent(if you can call
some of the episodes
that) series, such as Star Trek series's,
Babylon 5, Space
-above and beyond-, And occasionally TLC
for those neat
documentaries on the wonders of weather
and James Burkes
works. As for the rest of the TRASH that
gets across, let it,
it bothers me naught, 'tis the americans
own civil undoing and
is an effective monitor of how decrepid
they grow daily. How
many "talk-shows" are there now? I've
lost count...
ru> CRTC is the Canadian Radio and
Television Commission or
ru> something like that. It regulates
television station
ru> activities.
And any other form of information
exchange system, including
rates applicable by phone companies and
the number of TV
stations and such.
ru> Oh heck, if Psychotica is Canadian,
I'll ask this:
I am Canadian I am I am...=:>
ru> when was the last time you watched
Canadian TV,
ru> especially the french networks?
BAHAHAHA. ahem. sorry.
ru> got a bit carried away there.
I watch it whenever I'm not watching
American TV, I stick to
the Discovery Channel, City TV, CFTO, The
News Network and the
weather channel. I only watch american
channels to see
previously states shows...oh and 60
minutes to see how
decrepid America has become, MUCH FUN!
As for the french networks (There are
two so we can use
pleural.) One is off air half the day,
most days, and I don't
speak much french. However I speak
enough to understand what
is said on the Chemistry and Physics
documentaries and DUBS
that have been made for those channels.
BAHAHAHA, I laugh at
you, we are not as lingually decrepid as
thee!=;>
Did you see those LABBATS
Commercials?!?! The one with the
Blue Jays, then the ones with the
Voyageurs?!?! AHAHAHAH!!!
<Fade in>
<Scene, "1756 Somewhere-in-Canada".
Snow covered mountains
in back ground. Two men are canoeing in a
birch bark canoe in
traditional Voyageur garb along a river
lined with moose and
trees.(:= >
"See William, some day this will be the
longest undefended
border in the
world."
"Undefended against what?"<As their
canoe drifts across the
water looking to
shore seeing a moose.>
"Well over there, lets call them
Americans."<The look on his
face is
PRICELESS! As he drawls out the
noun!>"They will come over
here, look at our
trees, comment on how clean everything is
and sample what good
beer we brew."
"And what will they give us in return?"
"Something called Bay Watch?..."
<Labbats theme song plays!>
Got to Love it!
G'day!
Psychotica Rex
question of the
ajd> 'pedophelia' in anime, when I was
Usagi/Sailor Moon's
ajd> age I dated someone Mamouru's age.
No big deal.
So, thou art inferring that ye doth
engaged in sexual
relations whilst ye be a minor with a
non-minor? Or be the
relationship plutonic via casual dating?
Otherwise
paedophilia doth not be involved. In
said former case, it
would imply legal charges are past due.
A person of age seeing only those of
lesser existence as
their only option for companionship needs
their heads examined
if they can not relate to those their own
age, but that be my
own opinion.
G'day!
-Yes, Psychotica Rex thinks it a big-deal
for if former comes
into play, so doth the law lass! And NO
ONE has the right nor
privilege to denounce mortal justice.-
Shawn Kester
> doc> What do you think of things like Angel of Darkness and
> doc> La Blue Girl then?
>
> I do not know, I have never born witness to these items to
>which ye refer. If you are referring to 18+ flicks I have no
>access to them here in Canada(or if I do I don't know where in
>Toronto to find them if I even WANTED them.).
> But the point hold fast for THEY aren't on national broadcast
>television...
But they are all over the place. It's really quite dissapointing when
you go into the local cinema 1 video sales store. They have a small
section on Anime, but It's all Mangle, Anime 18, Pink Pinapple and Macek
Robotech. Nothing of quality.
Shawn
Near Toronto.
I'll watch anything at least once.
shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
: So, thou art inferring that ye doth
: engaged in sexual
: relations whilst ye be a minor with a
: non-minor? Or be the
: relationship plutonic via casual dating?
[...]
Alright, who let Kunou on the net?.. ^_^;;; Gomen, couldn't help myself.
In one of your other posts, you mentioned that you thought Sailor Moon's
transformation sequence is more tolerable than the originals. I'm sorry,
but the only thing different are the music and a few of the sound
effects. The flickering color covering Serena's (and the other Sailors')
skin covers Usagi's (and the others') as well. Granted, there are a
couple of extra lines to outline the breasts (no nipples) and backs of the
original Senshi, but that's nothing to get worked up about. Find a fansub
or untranslated version somewhere and see for yourself.
Man, I didn't mean to write so much! Aa well.
--
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -_^ PAUL CORDEIRO, self-appointed diehard anime fan. ^_- |
| ^o^ 16 and sittin' strong! ^o^ |
| *_* ---------- *_* |
| Quote o' the week: |
| "Ryouga Finding Destination!" --Sailor P-chan's attack |
| Fight o' the week: |
| A Revenant (Doom 2) vs Betty (Ranma 1/2) |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Neil Scott Nadelman
: doc> confusing the usual bit of jiggle found in many pretty
: doc> girl animes with
: Why doth everyone continually refer to it as "a little
: jiggle". Is this an attempt to make it sound less dramatic
: than "flashing a pre-adolescent audience"?
Because it is JIGGLE. Light breast movement and an
overdeveloped fixation on the buttocks. Where is there actual
nudity in a show like sailor moon outside of a couple of scenes
in the bath. The reason for showing nudity in the bath is that
people tend to bathe in the nude. And it's an excuse for non-
titilating nudity.
I'd like to know what is so damned shameful about this.
: Do you find that the Japanese producers, like FOX, bend to
: the whim of the best ratings and the sacrifice of taste, tact,
: standards?
No, they just don't have a huge hangup about mild nudity.
: doc> find the transformation sequences in Sailor Moon to be
: doc> pornographic?
: To a degree, yes (Although to be more accurate, more
: inappropriate than pornographic.). Nude women (Even
: renditions.) on National Broad Cast Television does tend to
: provoke that assessment (I find it at least inappropriate to
: be directed towards under-age persons.).
But they aren't nude in the transformations! They're all covered
weird light patterns and such! Why do you feel even the suggestion
of body contour is somehow dirty and inappriate?
: doc> Why do we have so much cheesecake in anime? Because it's
: doc> mostly made for the benefit of jr. high and high school
: doc> boys...Why so much underage sex? Because Japan seems to
: doc> specialize in having a national Lolita complex.
: "Cheesecake"? Another PC way of saying "flashing an adolescent
: audience" on national television no less? Bravo!=:>
: What the hell is a #$%@$%@$%@#$ "Lolita complex"?!?!?!?!?!?!
: (Incase you hadn't picked it up it 'twas sarcasm to a degree, but
: I still know not what Lolita complex be.)
: G'day!
: -A still confused Psychotica Rex.-=:>
--
A Lolita Complex refers to having an attraction to a girl
who appears childlike or virginal. In reference to the novel "Lolita."
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman...@user1.channel1.com| The blood still pulses in my veins.
----------------------------------------| The sun, still at its zenith.
I fear nothing in life because | And I... I, Antonius Block...
I've already survived Theta-G! | Am playing chess with Death.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
PsychoKick
annoying and not going to help your argument any. You don't sound serious
at all... you sound like a reject from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
In fact, I think that Psychotica Rex is just trolling here,
especially since it seems to be trying to make it as hard as possible for
us to understand what it is saying with its archaic language and halved
paragraphs.
-PsychoKick
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <4a343h$o...@newspeak.ultratech.net>,
Psychotica Rex <psyc...@ultratech.net> wrote:
> ake> Very simple answer to this question, it's not true.
> ake> Here are a few things to think about for you:
>
> Paedophilia in this case refers to the use of nudity
>(renditions agreed) to depict minors upon national television
>in the form of anime I find is very insidious as the lawyer
>seeking "loop holes" is, although legal is hardly fair/
>ethical.
Say what? So pedophilia is the _erotic_ depiction of minors....
> And if you wanted to give a reference why not chose
>"alt.sex.fetish.paedophilia" or something like that, I did
>research paedophilia whence first I heard the word, I KNOW
>what I be talking about little boy. I research and understand
>concepts WELL BEFORE I decide to bring them to public scrutiny
>so that I may tear lesser-informed twits as ye to shreds who
>doth attempt to defend it with no idea as to what a precedent
>is or at least how it can affect even good judgement.
>Thine rant be trivial, but you humour me, so let me humour thee.
Question One: what is _up_ with the attempts at King James English? Is this
supposed to enhance the appeal of your statement? Question two: are
statements such as "you humour me" supposed to make us respect you more? Or is
it just pointless flaming?
> Secondly. I did not say, have never said, nor will ever
>say (unless the situation changes drastically.) that anime has
>"a lot of sex" in it (allot is one word.)! Read it again and
>you might discover this. You refer to U.S. tastes, well U.S.
>tastes are not mine, nor are they Canadian. We have higher
>standards...hell we HAVE standards (C.R.T.C. take a bow...just
>one.).
Don't make me laugh with your "We have higher standards". If you don't like
anime with sexual content, say so succinctly and stop sounding like a
pompous ass. You don't have the authority to condemn other people's morals.
>As for sex scenes or love scenes or nudity on>television hither to...NOTHING
>is EVER shown. And if you CAN find it it is either on one of those
>adult channels or at>ungodly hours of the morning/night on
>specialty channels (Or on American channels).
And your point is? Which would you prefer: more liberality on issues of
nudity or more hypocricy on issues of sex? Just because a show isn't
"showing" anything doesn't mean it's above reproach.
> One can not sever the connection between nudity and
>pornography by saying it doth not exist in YOUR world (Has yet
>to be identified by science.).
WHAT are you babbling about?
> Pornography is invariably linked with said behaviour and
>THAT is undeniable...so perhaps in an oblique/obscure way, but
>anime is connected with sex whence it indulges in nudity.
More babbling, and the last statement is patently false. Just because anime
contains nudity does not mean that it is connected with sex. I cite the
"bath scene" from Totoro as a prime example.
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: ajd> By the way, about the original
: ajd> 'pedophelia' in anime, when I was
: Usagi/Sailor Moon's
: ajd> age I dated someone Mamouru's age.
: No big deal.
: engaged in sexual
: relations whilst ye be a minor with a
: non-minor? Or be the
Umm, hey, well isn't this of a rather personal nature? I mean,
mentioning the fact that you're dating someone is hardly saying that
you're engaging in sexual relations with them. (damn, that sounds so
new-agey and PC).
Umm, you should learn to use emacs or something.
: A person of age seeing only those of
: lesser existence as
: their only option for companionship needs
: their heads examined
: if they can not relate to those their own
: age, but that be my
: own opinion.
"Lesser existence"? You lost me on this one, bub. Anyone out
there got any theories on this?
: -Yes, Psychotica Rex thinks it a big-deal
: for if former comes
: into play, so doth the law lass! And NO
: ONE has the right nor
: privilege to denounce mortal justice.-
Mortal justice? Well, I don't think mortal justice is your
exclusive province, boyo. Anyway, here's what I think: There are some
decaffinated brands which taste just as good as the caffinated ones-- no,
that's not it. Damn, I can't remember.
Anyway, listen, can I borrow that spoon you're using to scoop
your brains out with, when you're done with it? I need it to stir my
chocolate milk with. Thanks.
--
sla...@titan.oit.umass.edu Mr. Groovy
HAHAHAHAH! WILLIAM SHATNER! HAHAHAHAH! OH MY GOD, THAT'S SO DAMNED FUNNY!
-----------------------------------> what is this pointing at?
WE'RE PUMPED FOR THE FUTURE! sla...@frost.oit.umass.edu
Neil Scott Nadelman
: ajd> By the way, about the original
: question of the
: ajd> 'pedophelia' in anime, when I was
: Usagi/Sailor Moon's
: ajd> age I dated someone Mamouru's age.
: No big deal.
: So, thou art inferring that ye doth
: engaged in sexual
: relations whilst ye be a minor with a
: non-minor? Or be the
: relationship plutonic via casual dating?
: Otherwise
: paedophilia doth not be involved. In
: said former case, it
: would imply legal charges are past due.
: A person of age seeing only those of
: lesser existence as
: their only option for companionship needs
: their heads examined
: if they can not relate to those their own
: age, but that be my
: own opinion.
: G'day!
: -Yes, Psychotica Rex thinks it a big-deal
: for if former comes
: into play, so doth the law lass! And NO
: ONE has the right nor
: privilege to denounce mortal justice.-
:
--
Just what we need here. A pretentious puritan to attack one of
the most inoffensive shows ever made. Look pal, if you want to play
in the sandbox, could you at least bring your sad version of language
into the 19th century?
Amity J Dunn
: ajd> By the way, about the original
: question of the
: ajd> 'pedophelia' in anime, when I was
: Usagi/Sailor Moon's
: ajd> age I dated someone Mamouru's age.
: No big deal.
: So, thou art inferring that ye doth
: engaged in sexual
: relations whilst ye be a minor with a
: non-minor? Or be the
: relationship plutonic via casual dating?
I couln't quote all that I wanted to from the many posts that were put up
by our dear friend Psychotica, sorry. I was simply saying that I had
dated someone, in passing, that quote had nothing to do with the body of
my message. I am very anti-flaming, but I was extremely PISSED OFF that
Rex felt the need to ask that question. It is absolutely none of
anyone else's business.
There was no need for he/she to be rude, but that seems like all he/she
was doing. The whole "Ye Olde English" bit was just added sarcasm that I
personally didn't find amusing. Sorry for this, but I'm feeling a little
bit mad right now.
-Amity
p.s. In the original Sailor Moon, they were all sparkles when they were
transforming, too, not nude.
Enrique Conty
>
> but what the heck does "Lolita Complex" aka "lolicon" mean?
Again, look it up in a psychology book. I could try and
explain, but I'm afraid I may botch up the description.
>of late the last anime I have born witness to
>ALL contained nudity, and FLAUNTING nudity at that
Erk. You need to watch better anime. :-p
> THE ORIGINAL sailor moon [transformation sequence]
>was a NUDE rendition as I have heard it
I have seen all of Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R (yes, I know what happens
to Rubeus, and what happens after *that*, etc), and I can claim that such
a statement is completely false.
Don't trust everything you hear. Actually, don't trust most
of what you hear, and take the rest with a grain of salt.
--
Enrique Conty | co...@cig.mot.com | http://www.mcs.net/~conty
Watch Key The Metal Idol! | 3DO games for sale! | Watch Evangelion!
Want to see Giant Robo subbed? Write to ma...@manga.com!
NuVista+ Mac genlock/video capture board for sale, $1000.
Enrique Conty
>
> doc> I really doubt you can find "sex scenes" in Sailor Moon.
>
> I just heard a rumour and my head nearly EXPLODED!=:>
Serves you right for believing rumors.
> Do you find that the Japanese producers, like FOX, bend to
>the whim of the best ratings and the sacrifice of taste, tact,
>standards?
Sure.
> "Cheesecake"? Another PC way of saying "flashing an adolescent
>audience" on national television no less? Bravo!=:>
"Cheesecake" is not a PC term. It's not even *close* to being PC.
BTW, it would appear to me that any "cheesecake" in Sailor Moon would
come from it being a superhero show. Superhero costumes are inherent
cheese- and beefcake. And if anything, the "sailor scout" outfits are
a lot more demure than 99.99% of superhero outfits out there...
> What the hell is a #$%@$%@$%@#$ "Lolita complex"?!?!?!?!?!?!
Find a good dictionary of psychology terms.
Douglas Jacobs
: jdg> besides, Mine own true self
: jdg> very attractive when she doth strip
: herself of earthly
: jdg> burdens and return to nature.
: That doth be anticipated laddy. I
: guess not all can be
: expected to maintain the viewing
: standards of the CRTC and the
: Canadian public upon their own behalf.
So, you rely on a government institution to decide what is "acceptable"
and what is not? I don't know about Canadians in general, but many
Americans feel rather competent about making decisions on their own,
and I know many people feel the same way.
: jdg> as long as certain people enjoy
: seeing these naughty
: jdg> bits, why not give them what they
: want?
: So you shall just give up? I apologies
: if my standards and
: integrity force me to strive for a higher
: common denominator.
Go ahead and strive for higher standards...just don't try dragging
anyone else with you.
: I do not cease my own struggle for
: decency until the
: alternate be vanquished. Just because a
: paedophile wants
: paedo-sex legalized doth that infer that
: we should do so? I
No one is stopping you in your "struggle for decency", but you
will meet with considerable resistance if you decide to declare yourself
some sort of crusader on our behalf.
No one is saying pedo-sex should be legalized...I still don't
understand why you think Sailor Moon (or anime in general) has
pedo-sex in it.
: think not, the greater demand is not
: always a way to attain
: the greater good. For sometimes that
: masses are wrong, alas
: might doth not make right.
You're use of cliche's is amusing.
So, you're saying while us poor masses are "wrong" only you
know what the "greater good" is?
You'll pardon me if I ask you to get in line behind the
religious fanatics, various parents groups and senators who
all feel the same way: _Their_ way is the _Right_ way, and if you
don't think so, then you're _Wrong_.
: jdg> Children's minds will be corrupted
: far more by
: jdg> right-wing politics, racism,
: sexism, and the
: jdg> violence with real people they can
: see on TV
: jdg> any day than by a nude cartoon.
: Children's minds are incredibly adept
: and are not so easily
: corrupted. The corrupt will not instill
: this into their
: children unless their children as well
: are inherently corrupt.
: 'Tis not a question of corruption, but
: innocence lost, even in
: a world of America, what we do have, we
: should not squander.
So, you would suggest continuing teaching children that nudity, or,
heaven forbid, sex, is a bad/embearassing/naughty thing? As you
point out, children's minds are incredibly adept and quite capable of
understanding a great deal of things. Again, you're begining to sound
like those religious/parental types who feel compelled to save society
from itself by remaking it in their own image.
: It seems these replies/attacks, and
: hence forth my rebuttals
: are becoming more aggressive and more
: personal. I'm not one
: for slinging mud, but may I remind you
: that:
So, in other words, you have no problem stooping to whatever
level people ask you to.
: *Freedom X Security
: = K.*
Whatever that means...
Brian Edmonds
Ru> Oh heck, if Psychotica is Canadian, I'll ask this: when was the last
Ru> time you watched Canadian TV, especially the french networks?
Or even just CBC or Newsworld. Fashion File and The Good Sex Guide have
their own share of nudity. Showcase for that matter routinely shows
"art" films with quite explicit scenes of "gratuitous" boinking. :)
Hmm, is there a [tag] for noise that isn't even anime-related?
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: Listen you inept twit, I have no
: assumptions and ambiguous statements. If
Ohhhh, neat! Now you're being a complete git, thus making it
permissible for me to refute your arguments in the most crass manner
possible. Alright asshole, check this out:
: Paedophilia in this case refers to the
: use of nudity
: (renditions agreed) to depict minors upon
: national television
I don't think that most dictionaries would define this as
"pedophelia", any more than they'd define the diagrams of naked people in
7th-grade biology textbooks as "pedophelia". I think the word you're
searching for is just "nudity", but you're reading way too into this.
"Pedophelia", as I understand it, is engaging in sexual relations with
prepubescent minors.
: research paedophilia whence first I heard
: the word, I KNOW
: what I be talking about little boy.
...and I just proved you didn't. Touche, wanker. If you do so
much research and KNOW what you're talking about, why don't you peel your
face off that terminal monitor, go to the library, and find out what
"Lolita complex" means?
: "a lot of sex" in it (allot is one
: word.)! Read it again and
This is subjective-- one can say "a lot" or "alot", depending on
the person. Sort of like "colour" and "color".
: U.S. tastes, well U.S.
: tastes are not mine, nor are they
: Canadian. We have higher
: standards...hell we HAVE standards
: (C.R.T.C. take a bow...just
Are we talking about Canadian tastes? No, we're talking about
general standards of North American television. I know that the CRTC are
even bigger twits than the FCC, but not much beyond that. If you want to
keep the discussion limited to Canadians, please say so-- and bear in
mind that you're addressing a global forum, and shouldn't presume that
everyone's going to respond according to your tastes.
: shown. And if you CAN
: find it it is either on one of those
: adult channels or at
: ungodly hours of the morning/night on
: specialty channels (Or
: on American channels).
There isn't explicit sex or nudity on American public television,
unless you count NYPD Blue. And I don't. (I don't even consider it a
real television show. It sucks. Whatever happened to Due South?
Whatever happened to TV Nation? Whatever happened to Max Headroom?)
: One can not sever the connection
: between nudity and
: pornography by saying it doth not exist
But it doesn't exist, you arrogant bastard. You seem to be in a
morality-induced fog about this; I don't even know if I should bother
trying to convince you that NUDITY =/= PORNOGRAPHY. If you have this
fixed belief that nudity is automatically pornographic and thus evil,
then there's nothing for it. Maybe one day you'll understand, but I
can't make you.
: more! Don't offer advice if you don't
: have any.
...and don't speak in that pathetic attempt at Victorian English
if you can't do it properly.
One has to wonder just WHAT they teach the remedial students today,
perhaps it's merely priming for their future careers...
--
sla...@titan.oit.umass.edu -- Michael "Mr. Groovy" Toole
You wanna see Giant Robo subtitled? Of course you do!
Write to ma...@manga.com and tell them so!
Ru Igarashi
: Would you PLEASE cut out the old english, Psychotica Rex? It's
: -PsychoKick
Worse yet, there are several "psycho-" type names floating
through here, and everyone (including the "psycho"s) is
attributing comments to the wrong "psycho-"s. Has this
thread gone nuts? Oh ya, a looong time ago. I guess it's
time to drop this one, ne?
ru
Ryo-oh-ki
Neil Scott Nadelman <doc...@user1.channel1.com> wrote:
:Psychotica Rex (psyc...@ultratech.net) wrote:
:
:: doc> find the transformation sequences in Sailor Moon to be
:: doc> pornographic?
:
:: To a degree, yes (Although to be more accurate, more
:: inappropriate than pornographic.). Nude women (Even
:: renditions.) on National Broad Cast Television does tend to
:: provoke that assessment (I find it at least inappropriate to
:: be directed towards under-age persons.).
:
:weird light patterns and such! Why do you feel even the suggestion
Completely paint your body with lots of patterns, wear no clothes,
then walk outside in a public place, especially around lots of
people. I'm sure the police would challenge idea of "nude". ^^;
:of body contour is somehow dirty and inappriate?
body contour -> no clothes -> nudity -> sex -> dirty
:: doc> Why do we have so much cheesecake in anime? Because it's
:: doc> mostly made for the benefit of jr. high and high school
:: doc> boys...Why so much underage sex? Because Japan seems to
In the past, people used to marry and have kids at the age of 10 to
14 years. Why has culture elevated the age requirement?
:: doc> specialize in having a national Lolita complex.
:
:: "Cheesecake"? Another PC way of saying "flashing an adolescent
:: audience" on national television no less? Bravo!=:>
:: What the hell is a #$%@$%@$%@#$ "Lolita complex"?!?!?!?!?!?!
:: (Incase you hadn't picked it up it 'twas sarcasm to a degree, but
:: I still know not what Lolita complex be.)
:
: A Lolita Complex refers to having an attraction to a girl
:who appears childlike or virginal. In reference to the novel "Lolita."
Shhhh. You're encouraging him to read...
___/^_^\___ Eugene Lee Ryo-oh-ki Muyo! Tenchi
zan...@netcom.com
Douglas Jacobs
: con> The so-called "Lolita Complex" (or
: con> often shortened on Japanese media)
: is a widespread
: con> phenomenon in Japanese society.
: Ok, but what the heck does "Lolita
: Complex" aka "lolicon"
: mean?!?! Japanese are inherently
: "lolicon" doesn't mean much
: to one who hath never heard the word
: before.=:>
Lolita Complex - a sexual attraction to young girls, not neccessarily
underage girls from what I understand... Apparentally the term came from
a novel entitled Lolita, in which a neighbor tries to deal with his
attraction to this young neighbor girl. Shortend by the Japanese to simply
'lolicon'. Surely could be found in psychology texts or maybe even a good
dictionary?
: PR> Upon no other entertainment media
: can you find so many
: PR> renditions of nude, naked, even
: those engaging in
: PR> sexual acts as you can in anime.
: con> When was the last time you watched
: an American movie?
: con> ^_^;
: I honestly don't rate american "movies"
: as either
: entertainment, art, or even expression.
: I don't like what
: Americans consider entertainment so I
: save myself the
: self-mutilation by avoiding said
: media.=:> I made reference
: but to my own experience of late, so I
: think I can be forgiven
: for being somewhat unexperienced as of
: this date. I know it
: is somewhat presumptuous, but of late the
: last anime I have
: born witness to ALL contained nudity, and
: FLAUNTING nudity at
: that and it disturbs me seeing anime
: Americanized. It is a
: disturbing precedent is it not? =:<
Er, you apparentally aren't very knowledgable about Anime or America
(which is fair I guess...how many Americans know anything about Canada?)
It is not the American companies "Americanizing" anime by putting nudity
into them. Also, I'm sure you know better than to make wild
generalizations based off of 1 or 2 instances, or even worse, heresay.
There is pornographic anime, and some of it is available in North America,
however no one should assume that this is a true representative of what
anime encompasses.
Being unexperienced is not a bad thing...stating what you feel are hard
facts based on your lack of experience, is. Pointing to whatever little
anime you have seen, applying your Western upbringing to it, and concluding
that all of anime contains pedophilic material is the reason you've received
some rather harsh responses.
: Perhaps I fear the
: increasing Americanization of Anime and
: the precedent stated
: would be a symptom of such.
: con> another person's, triply so when
: said persons come from
: con> different cultures.
: That is what I am here to confirm or
: deny, to find consensus
: or at least majority and make an INFORMED
: decision. Why does
: everyone assume I hate anime or have
: never seen any before
: sailor moon? I said I was new to the
Well, based on your tone in your responses, the tone of your original
header (I haven't seen the original article...its not at my site), I
can easily see why people might think you're new to anime. I've lost
count of how many people have said to me after learning I like anime:
"Anime, you mean those Japanese sex cartoons?"
Your tone in your responses seem to be similar in intent.
: newsgroup, not the
: scene. People certainly take it
: personally, and they don't
: even bother to read the header FULLY, if
: they did they would
: find I'm not smashing anime (Or if they
: did they saw only what
: they wanted to see.).
Well, let's see... This is the header I see:
Subject: Re: Anime tendencies towards pedophelia and standards therein
Which I interpreted as you stating that anime in general has pedopheliac
tendencies. If you intended to ask about apparent pedopheliac content
in anime, perhaps a subject like:
"Pedophilic tendencies in some anime?"
"Pedophilic tendencies in <name of anime show/movie>?"
"Why so much nudity in anime?"
Or maybe even something less controversial:
"Question about tendencies in anime"
You should know that in this day of the cyber-age, pedophila is like being
accused of being communist during the McCarthy era, or accused of witchcraft
in the earlier times of history. Perhaps a bit more care should of been
used...unless, of course, you're trolling.
: con> Your definitions of "obscene" and
: THE ORIGINAL sailor moon was a NUDE
: rendition as I have
: heard it, I see nothing wrong ethically
: with Sailor moon in
: its English format however knowing the
: Japanese willingly
: condone such behaviour I found quite
: disturbing. That is the
: precedent that I wished denied or at
: least explained...for
: better or worse.
Again you display your ignorance, and a side helping of closed mindedness.
Have you actually _seen_ the original Sailor Moon? Simply hearing about
it does not replace actual experience. So, if I told you that La Blue
Girl is family entertainment, would you take that as a fact too?
At any rate, there are no scenes of nudity in the original Sailor Moon as
you accuse above. In fact, pubic hair and genitals are forbidden from being
shown in Japan because they see them as 'obscene'. Even a Playboy magazine
from North America is considered obscene in Japan.
There is no blatant nudity in Sailor Moon anyways...when they transform,
all you see is an outline, a shadow, NOT the actual character. If you find
this "obscene", then perhaps you are not mature enough to watch anime.
Nakedness is a fact of life...its not "dirty" or "obscene" as most people
in North America are brought up to believe. People over in Europe and Asia
have a much different way of thinking about nudity, and in my opinion, a
much healthier one.
Doug
ps. Please fix your newsreader so you can post articles with >40 columns.
It would make your posts easier to read.
Introspector Wanted, Inquire Within Self
> I myself am a grand anime fan (As limited as my access is
>here in Canada.) and whence I draw forth a point of quandary,
>valid in all respects and tactfully divulged, zealots converge
>as white cells in the body to a foreign organism (I'm not
>saying I don't appreciate the attention...=:>).
Y'know, I'm *still* not certain what you're saying...perhaps if you would
drop the archaic English and use modern English, you would be easier to
understand, and not sound quite so stuck-up.
Incidentally, you might want to check your newsreader; your posts seem to
come out with the lines split in half. (This is a welcome change from
"paragraphs" made up of single 3-400 character lines, but it's kind of
bothersome all the same.)
> I had one fellow accuse me of paedophilia. Another told be
>to "...go read a bible and you'll feel better..." which I
>found a real hoot...he doth not know me very well.=:>
Well, fundamentalist Christians complain the most loudly about nudity. You
complain loudly about nudity. Therefore, the assumption goes, you must be a
fundamentalist Christian. It's an erroneous assumption, but you can at
least understand why people would make it.
>Others
>which were to vulgar to repeat that I doth receive in E-Mail
>and will promptly post back publicly (Edited to please the
>moderators.) because they can not HIDE their vulgarity and
>ignorance in private sessions to a public request.
Y'know, reposting private email tends to be a violation of netiquette. If
you thought people came down on you for your VIEWS, just wait 'til they
respond to that.
> A valid question deserves a valid answer, shall ye provide
>one or were you just hoping to sling some mud as well?
Exactly what *is* your question?
--
Chris Meadows aka | Author, Team M.E.C.H.A., Crapshoot & Co.
Robotech_Master | on the Superguy Listserv (bit.listserv.superguy)
robo...@jurai.net | **TAKE NOTE!** My homepage has changed to
chm...@nic.smsu.edu | http://www.jurai.net/~robotech/index.html
Peter Nordgren
In article <4a5a2d$l...@news.sas.ab.ca> shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
() writes:
> Psychotica Rex (psyc...@ultratech.net) wrote:
>
> : So, thou art inferring that ye doth
> : engaged in sexual
> : relations whilst ye be a minor with a
> : non-minor? Or be the
> : relationship plutonic via casual dating?
>
> [...]
>
> Alright, who let Kunou on the net?.. ^_^;;; Gomen, couldn't help
> myself.
He's renting a C64 from Nabiki. Ooops!
--
-- Peter Nordgren, Bjoernkaerrsg 7A:12, S-582 51 Lkpg, ------- SHE
-- {+46 | 0}13260778, http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/~nordgren -- REALLY
-- "I told you not to stop, now let's go." - FABRICATE DIEM -- IS!
Douglas Jacobs
: Would you PLEASE cut out the old english, Psychotica Rex? It's
: annoying and not going to help your argument any. You don't sound serious
: at all... you sound like a reject from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
Please...don't insult Monty Python so. At least they spoke in coherent
sentences ;)
: In fact, I think that Psychotica Rex is just trolling here,
: especially since it seems to be trying to make it as hard as possible for
: us to understand what it is saying with its archaic language and halved
: paragraphs.
Either that, or he's trying to get us to acknowledge his so-called moral
superiority.
Ken Arromdee
Psychotica Rex <psyc...@ultratech.net> wrote:
> Rumours about what WAS and WASN'T cut from the English
>version of Sailor Moon on various international, national,
>provincial, state, regional, area, and 24 hour nets about the
>world...inferences which lead to a most disturbing
>proposition. Also stories about outraged parents in Japan
>phoning the producers about such incidence.
The outraged parents were phoning the TV stations about episodes 45-46, which
got them outraged because the kids were upset at the Senshi being killed. It
had nothing to do with sex or nudity.
--
Ken Arromdee (arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, karr...@nyx.cs.du.edu;
http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~arromdee)
"Any creature who would disguise itself as a bone, obviously has no sense of
fair play!" -- Superboy Annual #1
dma...@forest.drew.edu
> Psychotica Rex (psyc...@ultratech.net) wrote:
>
> : doc> girl animes with
>
> : Why doth everyone continually refer to it as "a little
> : jiggle". Is this an attempt to make it sound less dramatic
> : than "flashing a pre-adolescent audience"?
>
> Because it is JIGGLE. Light breast movement and an
> overdeveloped fixation on the buttocks. Where is there actual
> nudity in a show like sailor moon outside of a couple of scenes
> in the bath. The reason for showing nudity in the bath is that
> people tend to bathe in the nude. And it's an excuse for non-
> titilating nudity.
>
> I'd like to know what is so damned shameful about this.
There's nothing shameful about it. It's just cheezy. You know --
like a Russ Meyer (sp) film. Why do you think they call it "Cheesecake"?
"Faster Sailor Moon, Kill! Kill! Kill!"
---Dmambu
Kujakuo
(confusing language deleted)
> ...and I just proved you didn't. Touche, wanker. If you do so
>much research and KNOW what you're talking about, why don't you peel
your
>face off that terminal monitor, go to the library, and find out what
>"Lolita complex" means?
You know he's not a true anime fan when he doesn't know what "Lolita
complex" means.
> ...and don't speak in that pathetic attempt at Victorian English
>if you can't do it properly.
>sla...@titan.oit.umass.edu -- Michael "Mr. Groovy" Toole
Oh, so he's speaking (bad) Victorian English? I was wondering what
he's trying to imitate. Any Old English majors out there?
Kujakuo
PsychoKick
says...
>Please...don't insult Monty Python so. At least they spoke in coherent
>sentences ;)
Thou hast forced me to say it! Nee! Nee! :)
Ah, but Psychotica Rex speaks like a REJECT from MPatHG (ie: worse, didn't
make the cut and not funny).
-PsychoKick
Douglas Jacobs
: > I myself am a grand anime fan (As limited as my access is
: >here in Canada.) and whence I draw forth a point of quandary,
: >valid in all respects and tactfully divulged, zealots converge
: >as white cells in the body to a foreign organism (I'm not
: >saying I don't appreciate the attention...=:>).
: Y'know, I'm *still* not certain what you're saying...perhaps if you would
: drop the archaic English and use modern English, you would be easier to
: understand, and not sound quite so stuck-up.
Allow me to attempt to translate:
Him: I myself am a grand anime fan ...
Translation: I'm a big anime fan
Him: (As limited as my access is here in Canada.)
Translation: (There's not much anime in Canada.)
Him: And whence I draw forth a point of quandry,
Translation: So, I have a question,
Him: valid in all respects and tactfully divulged,
Translation: it's a good question,
Him: zealots converge as white cells in the body to a foreign
organism
Translation: [yet] I'm getting attacked by zealots
Him: (I'm not saying I don't appreciate the attention...=:>)
Translation: (I like the abuse...=:>)
*disclaimer: I know even less Ye Olde English than I do Japanese.
: >Others
: >which were to vulgar to repeat that I doth receive in E-Mail
: >and will promptly post back publicly (Edited to please the
: >moderators.) because they can not HIDE their vulgarity and
: >ignorance in private sessions to a public request.
: Y'know, reposting private email tends to be a violation of netiquette. If
: you thought people came down on you for your VIEWS, just wait 'til they
: respond to that.
Moderators? What moderators? Last I checked, this was an unmoderated group.
Also, posting private email is considered in extremely poor manners. Don't
expect those dinner invitations from the Queen this year :p
: > A valid question deserves a valid answer, shall ye provide
: >one or were you just hoping to sling some mud as well?
: Exactly what *is* your question?
He is correct....a vaild question does deserve a valid answer. Unfortunatly
his question wasn't very valid as it was grounded in rather dubious logic.
Arguments about what he had only heard from 3rd parties about anime, and his
own predjudical views of nudity destroy much of any of the validity he might
of had.
However, I'm feeling generous and will answer the question.
42.
Doug
Psychotica Rex
SUBJECT: Re: Anime tendencies towards paedophilia and
standards therein
DATE: 9 Dec 1995
ORGANIZATION: Psycho-Warez, Scarberia.
RU> Of course it means something. But it just isn't a big
RU> deal. Not as big a deal as psyochotica originally made
RU> it out to be anyways.
So it means something, it is significant, it is a precedent.
This hath no been confirmed, that is all that I sought.
Weather you consider the consequences of a trend or
precedent disturbing or not pending upon THINE personal
judgement. If I be finding this to be most disturbing that be
me right, henceforth I have downgraded japan to a lower level
in my mind, whence I doth transverse thence I shall express
courteous and polite respect, but no other; an appropriate
precaution considering the rampant "lolita complex". These
trends are not as insignificant as you would say they be,
these are serious issues and to dismiss them as trivial or "a
little jiggle"is irresponsible.
Don't call me psychotica alone, it be either Psychotica Rex,
Rex, or The Psychotic, no other designation be mine laddy.
G'day!-Your contributions to yon thread have been most
insightful into the minds behind the precedent.-
Psychotica Rex
SUBJECT: Re: Anime tendencies towards paedophilia and
standards therein
DATE: 9 Dec 1995
ORGANIZATION: Psycho-Warez, Scarberia
MLN> If you notice, the transformations in Sailor Moon
MLN> got progressively more...detailed as the producers
MLN> realized that they were hitting an audience bigger than
MLN> just young girls. Certainly, such "wholesome" series as
MLN> ...does not seem to be to appeal primarily to people's
MLN> sexual sense...
We here in Canada did not notice that, since the
transformation sequence is somewhat standardized (Exempting
the new transform from the crystal.).
So, whence the producers found that the little boys liked
seeing their characters nude, and longer, they accommodated.
I do believe my memory hath failed me, for there was a term
used that I can't remember, something to the effect of "fan
accommodating" nudity. 'Tis an insidious use of psychology to
attain desired ratings.
Agreed, it doth not apply only to sexual senses, however one
can not deny THAT is what is driving the sales and ratings and
such.
LAMER> Are you inn fear for your mortal soul if you see. Go
LAMER> read the Bible and stop watching anime and you'll be
LAMER> allright.
This guy was an absolute hoot!=8>
MLN> Wonderful sarcasm, and not all that constructive in a
I would tend to agree, considering I'm Athiest and a regular
Otoku!=;>
MLN> rational discussion context either. I believe his point
MLN> was that by including _gratuitous_ nudity and sex, the
MLN> percentage of worthwhile material in the anime is being
MLN> correspondingly lowered. Why damage an otherwise
MLN> "elevated" story with inappropriate sexual material?
You seem to be the only, lowly individual henceforth who
doth appears to have discovered this. Bravo, thou art much
more than thine compatriots.
I have no answer for thine inquiry, however valid the
question may be. I attempt to attain enlightenment of such
question worded earlier and in response these vindictive
zealots attack me personally. I hope that thou art not alone
in insight and foresight maite. Perhaps thence we may attain
a rational answer?
MLN> Worse, by lowering the reputation of the industry as a
MLN> whole, potential aficionados can be turned away before
MLN> experiencing some of the "worthwhile" material. It does
This precedent is worthy of distinction and hence forth of
consideration by those whom which would propagate it.
MLN> seem to be the case that the definition of "reasonable"
MLN> used in Japan is somewhat more liberal than that used in
MLN> the U.S., and that's just a cultural difference that
MLN> people must contend with.
Cultural differences are acceptable and hence forth noted in
said judgement. One can expect more or less liberalism in
certain societies with respect to certain subjects such as
nudity, that is factored in whence inquiry doth be first bid.
MLN> Guardress is one of the best examples I know of where
MLN> there was some innuendo and "adult" content, but where
MLN> that content was rigorously controlled and did not ruin
MLN> the story as a whole.
So in thine experience moderation hath not done any damage
worthy of noting.(Moderation with respect to conscious pre-
editing not, CENSORED black spots on the screen and beeps and
such, but moderation incorporated into the story line.)
LAMER> ..there are no sex scenes directed towards children..
MLN> I would not be nearly as confident in making that
MLN> statement...
Some stories and such I've heard are what prompted me to
inquire originally.
LAMER> Your inflamitory subject line for this post is
LAMER> irresponsible.....
MLN> Can you really expect to be taken seriously when you are
MLN> generating such "inflamatory" shlock as this?
I don't know who this guy is, but he needs to get out more.
Perhaps watching The Editors on buffalo and NW T.V. would so
enlighten him to liberalism.
G'day!-The information and content aforementioned are
invaluable! TIA!-
Douglas Jacobs
: TO: r...@skatter.usask.ca (Ru Igarashi)
: SUBJECT: Re: Anime tendencies towards paedophilia and
: standards therein
: DATE: 9 Dec 1995
: RU> Of course it means something. But it just isn't a big
: RU> deal. Not as big a deal as psyochotica originally made
: RU> it out to be anyways.
: So it means something, it is significant, it is a precedent.
: This hath no been confirmed, that is all that I sought.
: Weather you consider the consequences of a trend or
: precedent disturbing or not pending upon THINE personal
: judgement. If I be finding this to be most disturbing that be
: me right, henceforth I have downgraded japan to a lower level
: in my mind, whence I doth transverse thence I shall express
: courteous and polite respect, but no other; an appropriate
: precaution considering the rampant "lolita complex". These
: trends are not as insignificant as you would say they be,
: these are serious issues and to dismiss them as trivial or "a
: little jiggle"is irresponsible.
So, let me get this straight....
Because 1 show depicts a young girl 'jiggling', you're ready to condemn
the whole nation of Japan as having a lolita complex, and therefore gives
you the right to "downgrade" Japan "to a lower level" in your mind.
I'm not sure what serious issues you think are being dismissed as trivial.
I certainly don't see why you're raising such a "holier than thou" fuss
about it, and at the same time you call yourself an otaku. Your statements
clearly show a serious lack in knowledge about anime and Japan, something
which all otaku's have considerable knowledge of. Your closedminded
arguments only lead me to believe that you're nothing but someone trying
to show off through posing.
ps. thanks for making your posts using >40 columns. its much easier to
read.