what is the appeal of Macross +
Peter L. Ward
>From: mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Martins Sylvio)
>Subject: what is the appeal of Macross +
>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 03:13:59 GMT
>The title says it all,.... WHAT IS THE APPEAL OF MACROSS +,....
It's not Macross 7! Just kidding :-)
>it would probably shed some light, because I still think it is very poor compared to some that I have seen,....
>ANIMATION WISE,... it's incredible, but story wise and character designs,...
I think the story is really good in that it has you coming back for more,
especially to try and find out what was it in Isamu, Guld, and Myung's pasts
that made them the way they are. The mecha action is great, but, for me, the
character development is even better. I get the feeling that these are real
people I'm watching, and I find myself caring for them...even Guld of all
people.
Story-wise, I think it does put a different look towards how life is in the
Macross universe. A darker look, to be certain, but I happen to like dark
from time to time. What really interests me (besides character development,
as I said above) is the Sharon Apple thread. I don't know if I'm the only one
here who gets more willies from Sharon than from Hal 9000, but I certainly get
some bad vibes from that character. I definitely want to she just what she's
up to and what will become of her.
As for character design, sure it's different! It's not Mikimoto who's doing
the design. Macross Plus shows that Macross is *not* dependant on one person
doing designs or some other function in order to be Macross. To me, I love
the character designs in Plus (though Lucy does need a nose-job...either that
or register her nose with the authorities as a weapon :-). They seem more
realistic than other character designs in anime, in or out of Macross.
>let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
>JA NE
>P.S: the first episode if the veritech didn't transform, I'd say ( it's a new Gundam )
Actually, considering that last Gundam series (G-Gundam), this would be a
massive improvement. Luckily, word on Gundam Wing is more encouraging and
there's an 008x-era OAV series coming out.!
Peter L. Ward fal...@best.com
It's time for Good Idea, Bad Idea, and Even Worse Idea!
Good Idea: Assigning Kiichi Gotoh to investigate a crime
Bad Idea: Assigning the Lovely Angels to investigate a crime
Even Worse Idea: Assigning Mihoshi to investigate a crime
Alex Hwang
Graf? I was watching the French Open and it's uncanny!
Martins Sylvio
it would probably shed some light, because I still think it is very poor compared to some that I have seen,....
ANIMATION WISE,... it's incredible, but story wise and character designs,...
let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
Ameratsu
battles not of monsters in space this time, but rather the demons within
us. We have to stop looking at anime as just surface value fluff. It will
become a self-perpetuating thing that feeds on itself, turning out nothing
but eyecandy that is fun to watch.
It is OK to think, question, doubt and feel when watching film (anime).
rec.arts.anime
EDWARD MOORE
I think that its appeal lies in the love triangle and the conflicts between
Guld, Isamu, and Myung. Added to the fact that the writers are deliberately
leaving out VERY important bits of information and exposition (ie. What exactly
did happen with these three people so many years ago) generates a great deal of
suspense and interest on the part of the viewer. It's how you draw an audience
into a play/novel/tv show/anime, whatever. Make it a mystery. All three of
them are very complex and intriguing characters. For example, why is it that
Myung supposedly despises Isamu, yet Sharon (who we assume is a manifestation
of Myung's subconscious desires) makes a "holographic" pass at Isamu during the
concert in volume 2? Or why does Isamu supposedly say to Guld that he is only
interested in the project, yet the way he behaves around Guld clearly indicates
otherwise? Not to mention the host of other less character-driven, technical
questions (ie. how did Guld blast Isamu at the end of pt. 2)
It's these questions that run in the viewers mind that keep us coming back for
more.
Personally, I think it's a brilliantly crafted script and very intelligently
told story. Not to mention that the music is incredible, Sharon Apple rocks,
and the computer graphics and animation are amazing. The overall quality of
this series is uncommonly high for an OAV, approaching levels only achieved by
theatrical releases.
BTW - Why do you feel that the story and chara designs are 'somewhat poor'.
Not to flame you, but saying something like that without backing it up doesn't
stand up well to criticism. Why do you think Mac + is unremarkable?
-Ed
Samuel Lysinger
>The writers of Macross Plus got Shakespearean on us. They examine the
then why is it that our main characters aren't very articulate ^_^
>battles not of monsters in space this time, but rather the demons within
>us. We have to stop looking at anime as just surface value fluff. It will
>become a self-perpetuating thing that feeds on itself, turning out nothing
>but eyecandy that is fun to watch.
I thought it was good because there is nothing great about it. There is no
hidden message, just a silly action show that has some TOP Gun elements in it.
Pure entertainment without discussing the state of mankind or the world is a
nice change.
>It is OK to think, question, doubt and feel when watching film (anime).
>rec.arts.anime
I agree, but Macross Plus isn't a great example :(
Keith Rhee
>I thought it was good because there is nothing great about it. There is no
>hidden message, just a silly action show that has some TOP Gun elements in it.
>Pure entertainment without discussing the state of mankind or the world is a
>nice change.
Au contraire, Sam. Most of the screen time isn't spent on action,
rather the relationship between the former friends. And the underlying
theme, if you pay attention, is about ideals and dreams, and how some
of them got broken, others gave up on them, but one person stuck
through it all and never compromised on his ideals and dreams (namely,
Isamu).
In other words, the focus here isn't an apocalypse theme, or saving
the world, but much more down to Earth -- it focuses on the trio's
dreams and relationship.
>I agree, but Macross Plus isn't a great example :(
In YOUR opinion, I might add. In the meantime, the LD sales in
Japan are skyrocketing, and most people I know loved the show. I think
the people's pocketbooks are speaking for their opinions, and if the
discussions on the IRC channel #anime! are any indication, there's a
LOT more to Macross Plus than you make it out to be.
--
Keith Rhee
A boss says "Go." -- A leader says "Let's go."
qua...@netcom.com
ash...@k-2.com
hmm the reason why it appealed to me is
1. cool mechs
2. top gun Macross style
and plus you've got to love sharon apple
i just love the beat to the thing and hey
the music is nice
but many people don't really think it's that great of an anime
yes it's a bad take off from the macross storyline
but hey better then some shitty think like G-gundam
Ash
--
----------------------------------------------------
Cyberspace - The Home of Multi-Player DOOM in So. Cal.
Chat - Online Games - (714) 838-8100 28.8kbps 36 lines
--------------------------------------------------------------
ash...@k-2.com
QU>sm...@umd.umich.edu (Samuel Lysinger) writes:
QU>>I thought it was good because there is nothing great about it. There is no
QU>>hidden message, just a silly action show that has some TOP Gun elements in
QU>it.
QU>>Pure entertainment without discussing the state of mankind or the world is
QU>>nice change.
QU> Au contraire, Sam. Most of the screen time isn't spent on action,
QU> rather the relationship between the former friends. And the underlying
QU> theme, if you pay attention, is about ideals and dreams, and how some
QU> of them got broken, others gave up on them, but one person stuck
QU> through it all and never compromised on his ideals and dreams (namely,
QU> Isamu).
QU> In other words, the focus here isn't an apocalypse theme, or saving
QU> the world, but much more down to Earth -- it focuses on the trio's
QU> dreams and relationship.
QU>>I agree, but Macross Plus isn't a great example :(
QU> In YOUR opinion, I might add. In the meantime, the LD sales in
QU> Japan are skyrocketing, and most people I know loved the show. I think
QU> the people's pocketbooks are speaking for their opinions, and if the
QU> discussions on the IRC channel #anime! are any indication, there's a
QU> LOT more to Macross Plus than you make it out to be.
QU>--
QU> Keith Rhee
[B> A boss says "Go." -- A leader says "Let's go."
QUB qua...@netcom.com
damn that was deep.
hmm never thought of it that way
but now that i think about it. your right
Michael Liu
>
> In YOUR opinion, I might add. In the meantime, the LD sales in
But they could've done a Star Wars! Instead, we have a...uh...[fumbling
for the name of some great, philosophical movie, because I have never seen
one. Besides, most of those movies manage to convey why humanity is such a
mess rather than anything else. IMO (and it's trademarkable), of
course]..a flashy tale with strange songs (but bland BGM) featuring two
average Joes and a Jane. (IMO again, but of course!)
We're getting these dinky tales now because the current generation of
Japanese animators can't think BIG. What's more, they need to get a life
so they can write about it. They should band together, invade some banana
republic then extrapolate the experience into unrecognizable forms.
People who celebrate birthdays and anniversaries need to get a life.
Michael Liu
ae...@Freenet.carleton.ca
P.S. Did I just waste one of my "Short Mentions" editorials on a common
post? Bummer.
Keith Rhee
>But they could've done a Star Wars! Instead, we have a...uh...[fumbling
>for the name of some great, philosophical movie, because I have never seen
>one. Besides, most of those movies manage to convey why humanity is such a
>mess rather than anything else. IMO (and it's trademarkable), of
>course]..a flashy tale with strange songs (but bland BGM) featuring two
>average Joes and a Jane. (IMO again, but of course!)
So tell me Michael, would you consider Gold Lightan a Star Wars
caliber show? =)
>We're getting these dinky tales now because the current generation of
>Japanese animators can't think BIG. What's more, they need to get a life
>so they can write about it. They should band together, invade some banana
>republic then extrapolate the experience into unrecognizable forms.
Dream on. It won't happen.
--
Keith Rhee
A boss says "Go." -- A leader says "Let's go."
Ender Wiggin
Martins Sylvio <mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA> wrote:
>The title says it all,.... WHAT IS THE APPEAL OF MACROSS +,....
>
>it would probably shed some light, because I still think it is very poor compared to some that I have seen,....
Namely what? I'm definitely not going to compare the animation
to Wings of Honneamis. The story is much more gripping than 90% of
what is out there.
>ANIMATION WISE,... it's incredible, but story wise and character designs,...
>
>let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
That's funny, because I thought that the story was the
strongest point of Mac+. The writer(s) have plotted out an intrigueing
story. It's full of mysteries which I hope will be all tied up. There
is so much tension in the show.
The art is different but not bad. I'm getting sick of the
Tenchi inspired designs that have cropping up everywhere, lately.
>JA NE
>
>P.S: the first episode if the veritech didn't transform, I'd say ( it's a new Gundam )
The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
none of the new fighters are "veritechs" nor "Valkyries" since those
were used for the VF-1 series.
Anthony "Are..." "Are..." Ender
Lau "ARE..." Wiggin
/***************************\/===========================================\
|en...@starbase.neosoft.com | "Demo, atashi no hoo ga niatte wa ne"-Yuri |
\***************************/| Animedia special on Project Eden. ========/
\==================================/
I survived the Bang and Bishonen Senshi Do-Do Moon.
Prabal Nandy
> That's funny, because I thought that the story was the
>strongest point of Mac+. The writer(s) have plotted out an intrigueing
>story. It's full of mysteries which I hope will be all tied up. There
Frankly... I found the mechy parts were getting in the way of the
interesting parts. And that's saying something, coming from me!
I suppose you sorta hafta let go of your expectations for a 'Macross'
story, and just enjoy it for its own effect. I went in looking for high-tech
mecha action, but actually, I ended up getting irritated when it interfered
with the patently wierd character interaction.
> The art is different but not bad. I'm getting sick of the
>Tenchi inspired designs that have cropping up everywhere, lately.
I don't like the sharpness of the noses... you could poke out an eyeball
with one of those!
But I AM glad that they do have noses... Something that seems
conspicuously absent in alot of anime Character Designs.
> The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
>was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
It kinda bugged me afterward... Kept thinkin': "So WHY do they need a new
Valk then?"
>none of the new fighters are "veritechs" nor "Valkyries" since those
>were used for the VF-1 series.
You sure they still aren't called Valkyries though? I always thought of
the VF-11 as the "Thunderbolt" Valk... the VF-17 as the "Nightmare" Valk,
etc. etc.
--
/| ________________ |pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | Lord of the Flies
O|===|* >________________> |http://sunset.bph.jhu.edu| 1st MPC Division
\| | /Myops.home.html | Colony Mechworks
Velox - Durus - Infestus | na...@fos.stsci.edu | Colony World Myops
Peter L. Ward
>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>Date: 13 Jun 1995 16:36:32 -0500
>In article <martinss....@tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
>Martins Sylvio <mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA> wrote:
>>The title says it all,.... WHAT IS THE APPEAL OF MACROSS +,....
>>
>>it would probably shed some light, because I still think it is very poor compared to some that I have seen,....
> Namely what? I'm definitely not going to compare the animation
>to Wings of Honneamis. The story is much more gripping than 90% of
>what is out there.
>>ANIMATION WISE,... it's incredible, but story wise and character designs,...
>>
>>let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
> That's funny, because I thought that the story was the
>strongest point of Mac+. The writer(s) have plotted out an intrigueing
>story. It's full of mysteries which I hope will be all tied up. There
>is so much tension in the show.
Mystery is the thing that keeps you coming back for more. Mysteries such as
"What the hell happened between these three so many years ago?," "How did
Guld sneak that live ammo into that gunpod?," and "What the hell is Sharon up
to???"
> The art is different but not bad. I'm getting sick of the
>Tenchi inspired designs that have cropping up everywhere, lately.
I'd place the character designs as pretty damn good, IMO. A far sight better
than the monkey-eared designs from Macross II.
>>JA NE
>>
>>P.S: the first episode if the veritech didn't transform, I'd say ( it's a new Gundam )
> The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
>was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
>none of the new fighters are "veritechs" nor "Valkyries" since those
>were used for the VF-1 series.
Nope. They're still Valkyries (in honor of the VF-1). I have models of
the VF-11C and the VF-19Kai (Macross 7), and both are clearly (and in English)
called Valkyries. Veritechs are from Robotech (nothing to do with Macross
except for the footage).
>Anthony "Are..." "Are..." Ender
>Lau "ARE..." Wiggin
>/***************************\/===========================================\
>|en...@starbase.neosoft.com | "Demo, atashi no hoo ga niatte wa ne"-Yuri |
>\***************************/| Animedia special on Project Eden. ========/
> \==================================/
> I survived the Bang and Bishonen Senshi Do-Do Moon.
PsychoK / Cbomb
: Keith Rhee (qua...@netcom.com) writes:
: >
: > In YOUR opinion, I might add. In the meantime, the LD sales in
: > Japan are skyrocketing, and most people I know loved the show.
: But they could've done a Star Wars! Instead, we have a...uh...[fumbling
: for the name of some great, philosophical movie, because I have never seen
: one. Besides, most of those movies manage to convey why humanity is such a
: mess rather than anything else. IMO (and it's trademarkable), of
: course]..a flashy tale with strange songs (but bland BGM) featuring two
: average Joes and a Jane. (IMO again, but of course!)
But what made Star Wars more than just some action film? THE
CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! (Luke goes from farmboy to knight, Han rises
above his cynical smuggler role to serve a higher cause, etc.) Character
development is the main focus of the Macross after all, with the wars providing
a catalyst for such development. (Hikaru goes from a reckless pilot to
someone willing to take responsibility both in defending his people and
towards his true affections.) That's why Macross II was such a flop:
great action and mind-numbingly powerful mecha, nada character development.
Macross Plus, admittedly, is "slower" than Macross or the Macross
movie, but it seems that the creators in this case wanted to tell a story
with more complex relationships than the original Macross.
I like the BGM of Macross Plus a lot. It has a more grandoise feel
than most other BGMs, mostly due to its baroque/classical style.
Classical music never loses any of its impact, whereas I eventually get
bored of pop/folk music. And where the Mac+ music is not classical, it's
outright bizzare.
: We're getting these dinky tales now because the current generation of
: Japanese animators can't think BIG. What's more, they need to get a life
: so they can write about it. They should band together, invade some banana
: republic then extrapolate the experience into unrecognizable forms.
Uh, yeah. Riiiiiggghhttt.
: People who celebrate birthdays and anniversaries need to get a life.
: Michael Liu
: ae...@Freenet.carleton.ca
: P.S. Did I just waste one of my "Short Mentions" editorials on a common
: post? Bummer.
-PsychoKick
Godai
>
>it would probably shed some light, because I still think it is very poor compared to some that I have seen,....
>
>
>let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
>
Finally, someone else who doesn't like Macross+
What is the plot anyway? Just testing new mecha? There doesn't
seem to be much conflict, except between two, IMO, poorly designed
characters. The only way this series could ever appeal to me is if
one guy killed the other (doesn't matter who, I want to see them
both dead). Give me a series with a plot and some real characters,
like Legend of the Galatic Heros.
Flame away if you feel so compelled, but I had to voice my opinion.
Just tired of hearing how great it is when I don't like it.
Different people, different tastes.
Sharon Westfall
: But what made Star Wars more than just some action film? THE
: above his cynical smuggler role to serve a higher cause, etc.) Character
No way! It was special effects that made Star Wars! And a great
soundtrack! I could chuck the story...
: Macross Plus, admittedly, is "slower" than Macross or the Macross
: movie, but it seems that the creators in this case wanted to tell a story
: with more complex relationships than the original Macross.
I haven't seen Mac II, but both Mac+ and DYRL have a couple of things in
common, a love triangle, and a female idol singer. The valkyries are a
given... Mac+ doesn't have a war going on at the same time, so the
story's less complicated.
: bored of pop/folk music. And where the Mac+ music is not classical, it's
: outright bizzare.
'Cause it's alien? Sure beats the Star Wars Cantina music!
: : We're getting these dinky tales now because the current generation of
: : Japanese animators can't think BIG. What's more, they need to get a life
: : so they can write about it. They should band together, invade some banana
: : republic then extrapolate the experience into unrecognizable forms.
: Uh, yeah. Riiiiiggghhttt.
Hmmpf... like more babes with guns?
*********************** PIYO __ PIYO *************************
* Sharon Westfall / \ Hawaii Online *
* Kuau, Maui, Hawaii < ^ \ Kauai BBS/Internet *
* Sharon....@hol.com | ) Statewide Local Access! *
* wes...@aloha.net \/\____/ *
********************************** > ******************************
Enrique Conty
>In article <3rl0d0$t...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin) writes:
>
>> The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
>>was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
>
>Valk then?"
Because they can't manufacture Isamu Dysons like they manufacture Valks... ^o^
--
Enrique Conty
co...@cig.mot.com
Plaidy
: Keith Rhee (qua...@netcom.com) writes:
: >
: > In YOUR opinion, I might add. In the meantime, the LD sales in
: > Japan are skyrocketing, and most people I know loved the show.
: But they could've done a Star Wars! Instead, we have a...uh...[fumbling
: for the name of some great, philosophical movie, because I have never seen
: one. Besides, most of those movies manage to convey why humanity is such a
: mess rather than anything else. IMO (and it's trademarkable), of
: course]..a flashy tale with strange songs (but bland BGM) featuring two
What? IMHO (but that of others as well) is that the music is amazing!
: average Joes and a Jane. (IMO again, but of course!)
I'd hardly call any of them average......
: We're getting these dinky tales now because the current generation of
: Japanese animators can't think BIG.
"Think big"? What is that supposed to mean? Personally, I think all of
the shows and movies out there that tried to evaluate the state of mankind,
immorality inherent within the human mind, etc. have become like a heavy
blanket. I feel rather smothered. A program with a little lighter theme,
superior animation, and real emotion that I can relate to is VERY VERY welcome.
Besides, what is so small about people's dreams? As Kieth so well poited
out, that is what Mac + is all about. Mac+ is as much about giant robots
fighting as Gundam is (yes, C-ko, I knew you were joking ^_^). Mac+ is about
relationships and dreams, something that is univeral to us all. I ask again,
what is so small about that?
: What's more, they need to get a life
: so they can write about it. They should band together, invade some banana
: republic then extrapolate the experience into unrecognizable forms.
Okay, whatever that was supposed to mean...... I'll just take it as a joke.
--
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>
< NLPR Ranma 1/2*Ah! My Goddess*Macross >
< Aaron Newton *Gunnm*Cutey Honey*Hades Project >
< amne...@starbase.spd.louisville.edu Zeorymer*Dragonball*Lodoss Wars* >
< >
< "I just LOOOVVE looking for life-forms" -Data, ST:Generations >
<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Keith Rhee
> Frankly... I found the mechy parts were getting in the way of the
>interesting parts. And that's saying something, coming from me!
Then again, Probe liked Gundam 0080 a lot, so perhaps this isn't
too surprising (I liked 0080 a lot too, btw).
> It kinda bugged me afterward... Kept thinkin': "So WHY do they need a new
>Valk then?"
The new machines have fold booster attachments as an option, allowing
them to fold into and beyond enemy lines to launch a quick strike
at the enemy headquarters.
> You sure they still aren't called Valkyries though? I always thought of
>the VF-11 as the "Thunderbolt" Valk... the VF-17 as the "Nightmare" Valk,
>etc. etc.
I think "Valkyrie" is the nickname attached to the first VF-1, much
like the F-14 is called a Tomcat, the F-15 an Eagle, and the F-18 a
Hornet. The VF-11 is the Thunderbolt, and the VF-17 is the Nightmare.
Although I could see how people came to use "valkyrie" as a NOUN for
the transforming jets, I'm under the impression that the Valkyrie
moniker is merely a nickname like the rest.
Of course, as always, I could totally be wrong. Where's Egan when
we need him?
Keith Rhee
>Nope. They're still Valkyries (in honor of the VF-1). I have models of
>the VF-11C and the VF-19Kai (Macross 7), and both are clearly (and in English)
>called Valkyries. Veritechs are from Robotech (nothing to do with Macross
>except for the footage).
I see. I stand corrected on my previous post, then. ^^;
Ender Wiggin
Peter L. Ward <fal...@best.com> wrote:
>In article <3rl0d0$t...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin) writes:
>>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>>Date: 13 Jun 1995 16:36:32 -0500
>
>>In article <martinss....@tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
>>Martins Sylvio <mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA> wrote:
>
>> That's funny, because I thought that the story was the
>>strongest point of Mac+. The writer(s) have plotted out an intrigueing
>>story. It's full of mysteries which I hope will be all tied up. There
>>is so much tension in the show.
>
>Mystery is the thing that keeps you coming back for more. Mysteries such as
>"What the hell happened between these three so many years ago?," "How did
>Guld sneak that live ammo into that gunpod?," and "What the hell is Sharon up
>to???"
Spoiler Warning!!
I'm alot more interested in the last question. I thought
Sharon was initally going to help Myun decide for herself or bring her
and Isamu together as they seem to the "fated couple." Then of course
Ep. 3 came out. That idea sort of flew out the window.
>> The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
>>was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
>>none of the new fighters are "veritechs" nor "Valkyries" since those
>>were used for the VF-1 series.
>
>Nope. They're still Valkyries (in honor of the VF-1). I have models of
>the VF-11C and the VF-19Kai (Macross 7), and both are clearly (and in English)
>called Valkyries. Veritechs are from Robotech (nothing to do with Macross
>except for the footage).
Gee, didn't know that (about the VF11 and VF19 being both
called Valkyrie). Kinda a shame, though. Now every UN SPACY variable
configuration fighter can be called Valks.
Anthony "Are..." "Are..." Ender
Lau "ARE..." Wiggin
/***************************\/===========================================\
|en...@starbase.neosoft.com | "Demo, atashi no hoo ga niatte wa ne"-Yuri |
\***************************/| Animedia special on Project Eden. ========/
\==================================/
Still Searching For Intelligent Life
Geoffrey Scott
(ugh...I hate it when people have their line length set for more than 80
columns)
: The title says it all,.... WHAT IS THE APPEAL OF MACROSS +,....
: it would probably shed some light, because I still think it is very
poor compared to some that I have seen,....
: ANIMATION WISE,... it's incredible, but story wise and character designs,...
: let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross
PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
: JA NE
: P.S: the first episode if the veritech didn't transform, I'd say (
it's a new Gundam )
Hmmm...why do I like Macross Plus?
A: Very high quality animation, with some really mind-blowing CG (computer
graphics) sequences.
B: Cool music. 'nuff said.
C: Several neat combat sequences. (I've heard that the reason that #4 is
held up is because it's almost one complete battle scene that's difficult
to animate.)
D: Believable characters. They aren't perfect, or fall into any standard
anime stereotype. (Alright, the char designs could be a little better.
But other than Lucy (who has a snooze about two feet long), they are
pretty good.)
E: A genuine spooky feel in some scenes.
F: A excellent plot/story.
G: Really, really, REALLY annoying cliffhangers at the end of each
episode. :)
H: A lot of mysteries that beg me to watch more to find out the answers
to them.
Geo
Rik Newman
>
>Michael Liu (ae...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>: Keith Rhee (qua...@netcom.com) writes:
> But what made Star Wars more than just some action film? THE
>CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! (Luke goes from farmboy to knight, Han rises
>above his cynical smuggler role to serve a higher cause, etc.) Character
>development is the main focus of the Macross after all, with the wars providing
>a catalyst for such development. (Hikaru goes from a reckless pilot to
>someone willing to take responsibility both in defending his people and
>towards his true affections.) That's why Macross II was such a flop:
>great action and mind-numbingly powerful mecha, nada character development.
I completely agree that Macross Plus is very good... but as defender
of Macross II for the whole of humanity (so it seems sometimes ^_^)
I have to disagree that Mac II has *no* character development.
Hibiki gets far more serious as the series progresses but does stay in the
gutsy reporter mode.
Half the story is about Ishtar learning. And there is more.
Mac II probably does have weaker chara's and less development than the
other Macrosses but you can't argue with the Mikimoto designs ^_^. One of
the problems that I have with Mac Plus is that although the chara's may
be strong and well written, they are just sooo unattractive.
Anyway, nice to see someone not mindlessly slagging Mac II but giving
some serious critiscism whilst noting its strong points.
Its actually the first legit reason I have seen against this incredible
OAV.
> Macross Plus, admittedly, is "slower" than Macross or the Macross
>movie, but it seems that the creators in this case wanted to tell a story
>with more complex relationships than the original Macross.
I thought it was fairly fast paced up to #2 (which is all I have seen).
Certainly intense if it is slow. A bit like the Patlabor movies.
> I like the BGM of Macross Plus a lot. It has a more grandoise feel
>than most other BGMs, mostly due to its baroque/classical style.
>Classical music never loses any of its impact, whereas I eventually get
>bored of pop/folk music. And where the Mac+ music is not classical, it's
>outright bizzare.
Yes Mac Plus has an excellent soundtrack, very different, but definately
up to scratch with the other Macrosses.
<mostly stupid stuff deleted ^_^>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Richard (Rik) Newman |
| Co-founder Anime Anonymous (Sheffield) |
| (Probably) Biggest DOLFAN in UK! |
| |
| "Skull One to Delta One. Mission accomplished, I'm coming home" |
| "Super Lightning Kick!" "A song and a dance, its more than that" |
| email: R.D.N...@Sheffield.ac.uk |
| WARNING!: I will only be on line occasionally from now until |
| September. Please e-mail me still, but don't expect a swift reply! |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik Newman
>
>In article <3rl0d0$t...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin) writes:
>>From: en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin)
>>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>>Date: 13 Jun 1995 16:36:32 -0500
>
>>In article <martinss....@tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
>>Martins Sylvio <mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA> wrote:
>>>ANIMATION WISE,... it's incredible, but story wise and character designs,...
>>>
>>>let me put it, without bringing the fury of the fans of Macross PLUS,... hum,... somewhat poor....
>
>> That's funny, because I thought that the story was the
>>strongest point of Mac+. The writer(s) have plotted out an intrigueing
>>story. It's full of mysteries which I hope will be all tied up. There
>>is so much tension in the show.
Yes the story is intrigu(e?)ing but I can't really say how excellent it is
until i see its conclusion.
>Mystery is the thing that keeps you coming back for more. Mysteries such as
>"What the hell happened between these three so many years ago?," "How did
>Guld sneak that live ammo into that gunpod?," and "What the hell is Sharon up
>to???"
Yes true. It is these points that make Macross Plus good.
>> The art is different but not bad. I'm getting sick of the
>>Tenchi inspired designs that have cropping up everywhere, lately.
This is where i dissagree with you but agree with the original poster.
This is very much a matter of taste of course. I myself find it
impossible to love Macross Plus as much as the rest of Macross because
of the character designs. Which are precisely the reason I DO love the
rest of Macross so much: which is why it is especially jarring.
Despite this tho Mac Plus is very good, due to the story and the mecha
and the soundtrack. It must be good when i can like a show that much
when I dislike the chara designs so much!
>I'd place the character designs as pretty damn good, IMO. A far sight better
>than the monkey-eared designs from Macross II.
Right... flame alert warning... flame alert warning...
Actually I can't flame you as I am too nice and you are obviously a
Macross fan to some extent ^_^.
But just think twice before you slag a Mikimoto chara design!
I'm sure I am not alone in having him as my fav designer for anime.
>> The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
>>was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
>>none of the new fighters are "veritechs" nor "Valkyries" since those
>>were used for the VF-1 series.
>
>Nope. They're still Valkyries (in honor of the VF-1). I have models of
>the VF-11C and the VF-19Kai (Macross 7), and both are clearly (and in English)
>called Valkyries. Veritechs are from Robotech (nothing to do with Macross
>except for the footage).
Yep all the Valkyries are Valkyries! ^_^ Begone foul "Veritechs" ^_^
But in Mac Plus they are YF's rather than VF's as they are experimental
Valks. But what does the Y stand for??
(If by any chance this is explained in later Mac Plus eps then don't
tell me! ^_^)
Ender Wiggin
Keith Rhee <qua...@netcom.com> wrote:> Later, you see Isamu as a pilot, Gald as a test pilot, and Myung as
> a producer. Myung used to sing *beautifully*, but gave up on singing
> (what she loves and what she does best) and became a producer for
> Sharon Apple...
More like a "producer." ^_^;
> We see Isamu chiding Myung in episode 3. "You gave up on singing,
> and yet you became a singer for Sharon Apple the virtual singer?
> I don't get it." Seems Myung gave up on her dreams for a reason
> (which would have something to do with the incident years back, it
> would seem).
Yeah, the Flashback.
> Macross Plus deals with *dreams*. It talks about people's dreams and
> ideals, and how those dreams oftentimes are shattered, ideals are
> compromised. THAT is what the series is about; for once we see the
> focus shifted from world interest and ideals, to something much more
> down-to-earth, namely the dreams and hopes of individuals.
Couldn't have said it better.
>>There doesn't seem to be much conflict, except between two, IMO, poorly
>>designed characters.
>
> I dunno if it's me, but the trio seem to present much more depth
> than most run of the mill anime titles out there.
Errr...4 if you can't Sharon who does have a mind of her own.
>>The only way this series could ever appeal to me is if
>>one guy killed the other (doesn't matter who, I want to see them
>>both dead). Give me a series with a plot and some real characters,
>>like Legend of the Galatic Heros.
>
> Now THERE's an epic series. ^_^
Well, Mac+ ONLY has 5-6 eps to work with. Not everybody can do
a LGH (Of course UY and Doraemon sure had enough eps to try. ^_^;).
>>Flame away if you feel so compelled, but I had to voice my opinion.
>>Just tired of hearing how great it is when I don't like it.
>
> Hearing about it all the time must speak volumes about how well it
> went across with most people out there. It isn't topping out on the
> LD sales chart at position no. 1 for nothing. People's pocketbooks
> are usually honest about this; hype alone would never have landed
> Macross Plus its present position and fame.
Well, The best thing I can do is to argue intelligently with
you, afi...@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Godai), and try to convince you with
rational arguments on why you should give Mac+ another chance.
> That doesn't necessarily mean it'll please YOU. Plenty of people
> yell at me that Sailor Moon is fantastic stuff. And me? I usually
> run away screaming at the mere mentioning of the word.
Ditto! ^_^;
Ender Wiggin
Rik Newman <R.D.N...@shef.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <falcon.14...@best.com>, fal...@best.com (Peter L. Ward) says:
>>
>>In article <3rl0d0$t...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin) writes:
>
>>I'd place the character designs as pretty damn good, IMO. A far sight better
>>than the monkey-eared designs from Macross II.
>
>Right... flame alert warning... flame alert warning...
>Actually I can't flame you as I am too nice and you are obviously a
>Macross fan to some extent ^_^.
>But just think twice before you slag a Mikimoto chara design!
>I'm sure I am not alone in having him as my fav designer for anime.
Well, would I be a flame bait if I said that HAL's designs have
lacked a certain something after about 1988?
Hell, I love Kia Asamiya/Kikuchi's artworks....before Silent
Moebius Vol. 4. Now I think his art sucks. *sigh*
>Yep all the Valkyries are Valkyries! ^_^ Begone foul "Veritechs" ^_^
>But in Mac Plus they are YF's rather than VF's as they are experimental
>Valks. But what does the Y stand for??
Dunno, but all new fighters tested by USAF are named YF-??.
After they pass and are selected by the military, they become just
plain F-??.
Brian S C Lau
: > It kinda bugged me afterward... Kept thinkin': "So WHY do they need a new
: >Valk then?"
: The new machines have fold booster attachments as an option, allowing
: them to fold into and beyond enemy lines to launch a quick strike
: at the enemy headquarters.
To me this brings an interesting parallel... Remember there was a competition
between the YF-22 and YF-23 to be the Air Force's next generation multi-role
fighter? Well, here we have the YF-19 (X-29 sort of parallel), and the
YF-21 (sorta like the YF-22,err... I keep getting them mixed up) in a
competition for the U.N.'s next generation VF. What's also interesting is
the point you mentioned above, Keith. The Air Force requirements for the
YF-22 and YF-23 included being able to supercruise, that is, to cruise at
supersonic speed without the use of afterburner (current aircraft can't,
espcecially when loaded). When I found out that the YF-19 and YF-21 were
required to be able to fold on their own, it was like..hey! One little
thing different is that only the YF-21 as active stealth, the 19 doesn't
seem to have that; while both the YF-22 and 23 have stealth measures designed
into them. And the 22 and 23 don't transform...:).
Aloha,
Brian
Brian S C Lau
: Yep all the Valkyries are Valkyries! ^_^ Begone foul "Veritechs" ^_^
: But in Mac Plus they are YF's rather than VF's as they are experimental
: Valks. But what does the Y stand for??
: (If by any chance this is explained in later Mac Plus eps then don't
: tell me! ^_^)
The 'Y' part I don't know what exactly it stands for, but in the military
it denotes pre-production type aircraft I think, hence YF-22 and YF-23
(which in my previous post may explain where the writers got the idea for
this competition between the YF-19 and YF-21). 'X' denotes experimental,
and not normally for the military/production I think...
Aloha,
Brian
Keith Rhee
>Finally, someone else who doesn't like Macross+
You can't please them all.
>What is the plot anyway? Just testing new mecha?
Testing the machines only provides the background, and a reason for
Bandai to make toy models. The real meat of the series is elsewhere.
How far have you watched the series?
The idea is this: in the beginning, you see 3 friends at the best
of terms, with Isamu flying towards the sun; it would seem Isamu
always wanted to fly.
Later, you see Isamu as a pilot, Gald as a test pilot, and Myung as
a producer. Myung used to sing *beautifully*, but gave up on singing
(what she loves and what she does best) and became a producer for
Sharon Apple...
We see Gald talking to the base commander, who asks him why he flies.
Gald answers, "For the challenge." Later, when the project is cancelled,
the base commander gruffly but sadly exclaims, "The challenge is over."
(BTW, Neil translated this as "the dream is over." While I disagree
with the translation, I totally agree with the sentiment).
We see Isamu chiding Myung in episode 3. "You gave up on singing,
and yet you became a singer for Sharon Apple the virtual singer?
I don't get it." Seems Myung gave up on her dreams for a reason
(which would have something to do with the incident years back, it
would seem).
Later, we see Myung blaming Isamu for shattering her dreams.
On the whole, though, the series shows that Isamu is the only one
who hasn't given up on his dreams, nor compromised his ideals.
Macross Plus deals with *dreams*. It talks about people's dreams and
ideals, and how those dreams oftentimes are shattered, ideals are
compromised. THAT is what the series is about; for once we see the
focus shifted from world interest and ideals, to something much more
down-to-earth, namely the dreams and hopes of individuals.
>There doesn't seem to be much conflict, except between two, IMO, poorly
>designed characters.
I dunno if it's me, but the trio seem to present much more depth
than most run of the mill anime titles out there.
As for conflict, there's plenty of intrigue and depth. We see Gald
and Isamu at each others throats, but the series, unlike many others,
doesn't give us a predictable reason as to why they do so.
>The only way this series could ever appeal to me is if
>one guy killed the other (doesn't matter who, I want to see them
>both dead). Give me a series with a plot and some real characters,
>like Legend of the Galatic Heros.
Now THERE's an epic series. ^_^
>Flame away if you feel so compelled, but I had to voice my opinion.
>Just tired of hearing how great it is when I don't like it.
Hearing about it all the time must speak volumes about how well it
went across with most people out there. It isn't topping out on the
LD sales chart at position no. 1 for nothing. People's pocketbooks
are usually honest about this; hype alone would never have landed
Macross Plus its present position and fame.
That doesn't necessarily mean it'll please YOU. Plenty of people
yell at me that Sailor Moon is fantastic stuff. And me? I usually
run away screaming at the mere mentioning of the word.
>Different people, different tastes.
Exactly.
Peter L. Ward
>From: R.D.N...@shef.ac.uk (Rik Newman)
>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>In article <falcon.14...@best.com>, fal...@best.com (Peter L. Ward) says:
>>
>>In article <3rl0d0$t...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin) writes:
>>>From: en...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Ender Wiggin)
>>>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>>>Date: 13 Jun 1995 16:36:32 -0500
>>
>>>In article <martinss....@tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
>>>Martins Sylvio <mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA> wrote:
>>>>The title says it all,.... WHAT IS THE APPEAL OF MACROSS +,....
<snip>
>>Mystery is the thing that keeps you coming back for more. Mysteries such as
>>"What the hell happened between these three so many years ago?," "How did
>>Guld sneak that live ammo into that gunpod?," and "What the hell is Sharon up
>>to???"
>Yes true. It is these points that make Macross Plus good.
I can also think of one more mystery to add to the fire, considering episode 2
and stuff I heard about episode 3..."What is Millard Johnson up to??" It
seems he's maneuvering both Guld and Isamu into doing something...but what?
Guess that'll wait until episode 4 comes along...
>>> The art is different but not bad. I'm getting sick of the
>>>Tenchi inspired designs that have cropping up everywhere, lately.
>This is where i dissagree with you but agree with the original poster.
>This is very much a matter of taste of course. I myself find it
>impossible to love Macross Plus as much as the rest of Macross because
>of the character designs. Which are precisely the reason I DO love the
>rest of Macross so much: which is why it is especially jarring.
>Despite this tho Mac Plus is very good, due to the story and the mecha
>and the soundtrack. It must be good when i can like a show that much
>when I dislike the chara designs so much!
>>I'd place the character designs as pretty damn good, IMO. A far sight better
>>than the monkey-eared designs from Macross II.
>Right... flame alert warning... flame alert warning...
>Actually I can't flame you as I am too nice and you are obviously a
>Macross fan to some extent ^_^.
>But just think twice before you slag a Mikimoto chara design!
>I'm sure I am not alone in having him as my fav designer for anime.
If Hal didn't give the characters in II the monkey ears (as my brother
originally put it when he first saw II), the designs would've been easier to
take. Could be worse, I suppose :-)
>>> The VF-11 did transform. In fact the beginning five minutes
>>>was a mind stunning display of Gundam-esque mecha combat. Anyways,
>>>none of the new fighters are "veritechs" nor "Valkyries" since those
>>>were used for the VF-1 series.
>>
>>Nope. They're still Valkyries (in honor of the VF-1). I have models of
>>the VF-11C and the VF-19Kai (Macross 7), and both are clearly (and in English)
>>called Valkyries. Veritechs are from Robotech (nothing to do with Macross
>>except for the footage).
>Yep all the Valkyries are Valkyries! ^_^ Begone foul "Veritechs" ^_^
>But in Mac Plus they are YF's rather than VF's as they are experimental
>Valks. But what does the Y stand for??
>(If by any chance this is explained in later Mac Plus eps then don't
>tell me! ^_^)
The 19 and 21 are YFs, but the 11 is a VF. Another person posted info on the
Y designation far better than I could do. It pretty much is a designation for
test fighters (as opposed to production models and experimentals).
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Richard (Rik) Newman |
>| Co-founder Anime Anonymous (Sheffield) |
>| (Probably) Biggest DOLFAN in UK! |
>| |
>| "Skull One to Delta One. Mission accomplished, I'm coming home" |
>| "Super Lightning Kick!" "A song and a dance, its more than that" |
>| email: R.D.N...@Sheffield.ac.uk |
>| WARNING!: I will only be on line occasionally from now until |
>| September. Please e-mail me still, but don't expect a swift reply! |
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryo-oh-ki
Keith Rhee <qua...@netcom.com> wrote:
:afi...@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Godai) writes:
: We see Isamu chiding Myung in episode 3. "You gave up on singing,
: and yet you became a singer for Sharon Apple the virtual singer?
: I don't get it." Seems Myung gave up on her dreams for a reason
: (which would have something to do with the incident years back, it
: would seem).
I think Myung finds it easier to sing as Sharon Apple. Maybe it's her
form of escapism to deal with that past...
: On the whole, though, the series shows that Isamu is the only one
: who hasn't given up on his dreams, nor compromised his ideals.
:
: Macross Plus deals with *dreams*. It talks about people's dreams and
: ideals, and how those dreams oftentimes are shattered, ideals are
: compromised. THAT is what the series is about; for once we see the
: focus shifted from world interest and ideals, to something much more
: down-to-earth, namely the dreams and hopes of individuals.
*clap-clap-clap* A non-apocolyptic anime for once!
:>There doesn't seem to be much conflict, except between two, IMO, poorly
:>designed characters.
:
: I dunno if it's me, but the trio seem to present much more depth
: than most run of the mill anime titles out there.
Agreed. Macross Plus has more character development in 3 episodes
than what most TV series strive to do in the first 30 episodes. Even
Sharon Apple, the AI that could blow most Turing Tests, serves as a
window to Myung's heart, and perhaps may be the catalyst that could
resolve the love/hate love-triangle relationship.
: As for conflict, there's plenty of intrigue and depth. We see Gald
: and Isamu at each others throats, but the series, unlike many others,
: doesn't give us a predictable reason as to why they do so.
A good series does not lay out its characters' histories like some
encyclopedia, but lets us the audience come to know the characters
as individuals, discovering their traits and secrets along the way.
And, for a short time, we do indeed get to know them.
Why does Madoka have a bad school reputation? Why does Kyoko call
her dog Souichiro-san and apologizes to it all the time? Why is a
lone girl Sheeta pursued by G-men? Who in the world is Queen
Serenity? What in the world is Akira?
:>The only way this series could ever appeal to me is if
:>one guy killed the other (doesn't matter who, I want to see them
:>both dead). Give me a series with a plot and some real characters,
:>like Legend of the Galatic Heros.
:
: Now THERE's an epic series. ^_^
Yamato is pretty epic too. ^_^
___/^_^\___ Eugene Lee Ryo-oh-ki Muyo! Tenchi
zan...@netcom.com Sharon! Sharon! Wai! Wai!
banana
'Macross' automatically makes it good. Same reason some people bother to
watch two episodes of Macross 7... :( oh well.
another good series ruined...
B.D.
Prabal Nandy
>pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>> It kinda bugged me afterward... Kept thinkin': "So WHY do they need a new
>>Valk then?"
>
> The new machines have fold booster attachments as an option, allowing
> them to fold into and beyond enemy lines to launch a quick strike
> at the enemy headquarters.
Ah, right... So I heard.
BTW, have they shown what the 'fold-booster' looks like? I heard that in
Mac7 the VF-17 uses a Booster pack to go to Earth (?), but I haven't heard
any description of what it looks like, it's not internalized, is it?
Peter L. Ward
>From: ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Haro-chan)
>Subject: Re: [Gundam] New Video Series (was what is the appeal of Macross +)
>Date: 17 Jun 1995 05:55:24 GMT
>In article <falcon.13...@best.com>,
>Peter L. Ward <fal...@best.com> wrote:
>>Actually, considering that last Gundam series (G-Gundam), this would be a
>>massive improvement. Luckily, word on Gundam Wing is more encouraging and
>>there's an 008x-era OAV series coming out.!
>The Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team/Platoon series takes place in the
>later half of UC 0079, and not after the One Year's War.
Hmmm...guess the illustration in the June issue of Newtype threw me for a bit
there. One of the Gundams in the illustration (facing back) had maneuvering
jets that looked like those on a Gundam Mk II (Zeta-era for those who aren't
mecha otaku). By the way, the same issue had a really neat photo-illustration
of a pair of Gundams walking in a river. I think this was inspired by the
08th OAV.
>--
> _______ Still looking for that Daremo anata no seishun wa ubaenai
> /\ /\ elusive Haro UFO catcher doll.... No one can steal your youth
> /_/ i i \_\ Haro-chan! Egan Loo --Mari Iijima,
>|___________| ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu or @ocf.berkeley.edu "Love Letter"
Haro-chan
Peter L. Ward <fal...@best.com> wrote:
>Actually, considering that last Gundam series (G-Gundam), this would be a
>massive improvement. Luckily, word on Gundam Wing is more encouraging and
>there's an 008x-era OAV series coming out.!
The Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team/Platoon series takes place in the
later half of UC 0079, and not after the One Year's War.
Haro-chan
>Valks. But what does the Y stand for??
Y indicates prototype (as opposed to experimental, operational, and so
forth) status. It's a designation modeled after the contemporary US
Department of Defense designation system for aircraft. The Macross creators
have not been always consistent regarding model designations, but
then again, neither have the US Armed Forces.
Haro-chan
>> You sure they still aren't called Valkyries though? I always thought of
>>the VF-11 as the "Thunderbolt" Valk... the VF-17 as the "Nightmare" Valk,
>>etc. etc.
>
> I think "Valkyrie" is the nickname attached to the first VF-1, much
> like the F-14 is called a Tomcat, the F-15 an Eagle, and the F-18 a
> Hornet. The VF-11 is the Thunderbolt, and the VF-17 is the Nightmare.
>
> Although I could see how people came to use "valkyrie" as a NOUN for
> the transforming jets, I'm under the impression that the Valkyrie
> moniker is merely a nickname like the rest.
According to This Is Animation Special: Macross Plus, the VF-17
Nightmare is the formal model number and designation, but the "Stealth
Valkyrie" nickname has become so popularized that even experts use from
time to time. The same would be true for "Warthog" for the A-10
Thunderbolt in the real world, "Timid Bunny" for the RC-3 Rabbit in
Macross the Movie, "Fire Valkyrie" and "Blazer Valkyrie" for the VF-19
Excalibur in Macross 7, "Booby Duck" for the VF-1 Super Valkyrie in
the original Macross TV series, and "Valkyrie" for any variable fighter
that succeeded the original VF-1 Valkyrie. These are not the official
names, but that doesn't stop even the UN Spacy from occasionally
using them.
> Of course, as always, I could totally be wrong. Where's Egan when
> we need him?
Here, still hoping for more threads about the original TV series. =)
Peter L. Ward
>From: pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>Date: 16 Jun 1995 14:15:18 -0400
>In article <quattroD...@netcom.com> qua...@netcom.com (Keith Rhee) writes:
>>pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>>> It kinda bugged me afterward... Kept thinkin': "So WHY do they need a new
>>>Valk then?"
>>
>> The new machines have fold booster attachments as an option, allowing
>> them to fold into and beyond enemy lines to launch a quick strike
>> at the enemy headquarters.
> Ah, right... So I heard.
> BTW, have they shown what the 'fold-booster' looks like? I heard that in
>Mac7 the VF-17 uses a Booster pack to go to Earth (?), but I haven't heard
>any description of what it looks like, it's not internalized, is it?
If you take a look at the "next-ep" scenes at the end of episode two, they do
show the boosters. They look kind of like the solid-rocket boosters used by
the chase VF-11s toward the end of episode 1.
>--
> /| ________________ |pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | Lord of the Flies
>O|===|* >________________> |http://sunset.bph.jhu.edu| 1st MPC Division
> \| | /Myops.home.html | Colony Mechworks
> Velox - Durus - Infestus | na...@fos.stsci.edu | Colony World Myops
Martins Sylvio
>like Legend of the Galatic Heros.
>Just tired of hearing how great it is when I don't like it.
YUP,.... Legend of the galactic heroes is pure magic compared to MACROSS +... let us not compare them both because LOGH is at a totally different level than Macross +....
OH WELL,... thanks for your opinion,.... JA NE
.
Martins Sylvio
>graphics) sequences.
YUP, can't argue on that point, it's breath-taking
>B: Cool music. 'nuff said.
WHAT!!!!!! are we taking about the same anime,.... I heard the beginning of the first episode, and I almost gaged myself to death,,.... the second episode is a bit better, but they are WAY WAY WAY better music than THAT,.... brrrrrrr.... I'm getting the chills....
>C: Several neat combat sequences. (I've heard that the reason that #4 is
>held up is because it's almost one complete battle scene that's difficult
>to animate.)
Yeah, that another good point, BUT,... when I first saw the first episode of the series, I YELLED ( BY GEORGE IT'S A GUNDAM STEAL..... guess why????)
>D: Believable characters. They aren't perfect, or fall into any standard
>anime stereotype. (Alright, the char designs could be a little better.
>But other than Lucy (who has a snooze about two feet long), they are
>pretty good.)
WHAT!!!!! the characters SUCK, BIG TIME, the character design is totally boring, no imagination, and worst of all, almost like american cartoons design... brrrr....
>H: A lot of mysteries that beg me to watch more to find out the answers
>to them.
What mysteries?????, didn't see any on the first 2 episodes, it's just a rivalry between two idiots who hate each others guts.... the only interesting thing is about, HOW they become like that.....
JA NE
Prabal Nandy
>WHAT!!!!!! are we taking about the same anime,.... I heard the beginning of the first episode, and I almost gaged myself to death,,.... the second episode is a bit better, but they are WAY WAY WAY better music than THAT,.... brrrrrrr.... I'm getting the chills....
The music might not be great, but the presentation is pretty funky... I
hate J-pop myself, but the Holograms made up for it. WIERD!
>Yeah, that another good point, BUT,... when I first saw the first episode of the series, I YELLED ( BY GEORGE IT'S A GUNDAM STEAL..... guess why????)
Maybe the Gundamesque shields, and the fact that they are both made by
Bandai? I have to admit, something about the way the Mac+ Valks are animated
doesn't 'feel' like the classic valk... Valks weren't ever supposed to 'fly
around' in Battleoid mode, right?
>WHAT!!!!! the characters SUCK, BIG TIME, the character design is totally boring, no imagination, and worst of all, almost like american cartoons design... brrrr....
The characters are ugly looking. But I like the fact that they've got
NOSES! Hurrah. Just wish each character had a 'different' nose.. which,
ironically, the US "ExoSquad" was able to do.
>What mysteries?????, didn't see any on the first 2 episodes, it's just a rivalry between two idiots who hate each others guts.... the only interesting thing is about, HOW they become like that.....
Well, _that's_ the mystery then, ain't it?
x
Enrique Conty
>In article <martinss....@tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA> mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Martins Sylvio) writes:
>>Yeah, that another good point, BUT,... when I first saw the first episode
>>of the series, I YELLED ( BY GEORGE IT'S A GUNDAM STEAL..... guess why????)
>
> Maybe the Gundamesque shields, and the fact that they are both made by
>Bandai? I have to admit, something about the way the Mac+ Valks are animated
>doesn't 'feel' like the classic valk... Valks weren't ever supposed to 'fly
>around' in Battleoid mode, right?
Well, they never actually *fly*. They jump, they free-fall, they glide on
the momentum generated by their speed when they changed from jet to battloid
mode, but they don't fly like Gundams do.
--
Enrique Conty
co...@cig.mot.com
Peter L. Ward
>Subject: Re: what is the appeal of Macross +
>>A: Very high quality animation, with some really mind-blowing CG (computer
>>graphics) sequences.
>YUP, can't argue on that point, it's breath-taking
>>B: Cool music. 'nuff said.
>WHAT!!!!!! are we taking about the same anime,.... I heard the beginning of
>the first episode, and I almost gaged myself to death,,.... the second
>episode is a bit better, but they are WAY WAY WAY better music than
>THAT,.... brrrrrrr.... I'm getting the chills....
Guess we'll have differing opinions (putting it mildly) on the music. I
happened to *loved* the music and went right out and bought the first CD
soundtrack! Then again, I love orchestral soundracks.
>>C: Several neat combat sequences. (I've heard that the reason that #4 is
>>held up is because it's almost one complete battle scene that's difficult
>>to animate.)
>Yeah, that another good point, BUT,... when I first saw the first episode of the series, I
>YELLED ( BY GEORGE IT'S A GUNDAM STEAL..... guess why????)
And what about it makes it seem like a Gundam to you? I thought the mecha
sequences rocked!
>>D: Believable characters. They aren't perfect, or fall into any standard
>>anime stereotype. (Alright, the char designs could be a little better.
>>But other than Lucy (who has a snooze about two feet long), they are
>>pretty good.)
>WHAT!!!!! the characters SUCK, BIG TIME, the character design is totally boring, no
>imagination, and worst of all, almost like american cartoons design...
>brrrr....
Excuse me? American character design this good (aside from Disney, perhaps)?
I don't think so! True, the noses do need a bit of work, but other than that,
I happened to like the designs. I didn't see anything boring about them at
all. I'll take them any day over, say, Sailor Moon :-)
>>H: A lot of mysteries that beg me to watch more to find out the answers
>>to them.
>What mysteries?????, didn't see any on the first 2 episodes, it's just a rivalry between
>two idiots who hate each others guts.... the only interesting thing is about,
>HOW they become like that.....
You forgot about the mystery about what Sharon is up to, as well as what one
of her designers (Marj) is up to, how Guld managed to get the live ammo into
the YF-19's gunpod, and what Col. Millard Johnson is up to.
As for the idiot crack there, I certainly wouldn't call Guld an idiot since he
holds two degrees, I believe (which ones were they, Egan?).
>JA NE
Lester Yung
>In article <3rtsf7$3...@agate.berkeley.edu> ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Haro-chan) writes:
>>Here, still hoping for more threads about the original TV series. =)
> Sure, here goes for the nth time!
> What was the _original_ Macross plot? I know they weren't looking for
>"Pro-to-Cul-Ture" and I guess it wasn't the Male-Female war of the Sexes
>that we see in M:DYRL, so what was it? Just huntin' for the SDF-1?
In the beginning, there was the Protoculture, an ancient race of humanoids who
established a galactic empire through the use of their creations, the Zentrady.
After the establishment of their empire, they created another race of giants,
the Inspection Forces (or "Inspection Army", if you prefer). Because of
their propensity for violence, the Zentrady began fighting with the IF, and
the resulting war caused the destruction of the galactic empire and
the Protoculture themselves. Thousands of years later, with the IF close
to defeat, one of their ships disappeared from battle, was boobytrapped and
abandoned, and then was sent off into deep space, only to end up crashlanding
on Earth. While the nations of Earth were busy fighting a war over
world unification, learning to master the alien technology, and repairing
the ship, a Zentrady fleet under the command of Britai was scouring
the galaxy in an attempt to seek and destroy the missing IF ship. (For
the curious, the above information was extrapolated from books #90 and #100
of Shogakukan's "Korotan" series, namely "The Macross Pocket Encylopeadia" and
"The Macross Guide Book").
And now you know...The Rest of the Story :)
- L.Y. (no sig yet)
Ender Wiggin
Martins Sylvio <mart...@ERE.UMontreal.CA> wrote:
>>A: Very high quality animation, with some really mind-blowing CG (computer
>>graphics) sequences.
>
>YUP, can't argue on that point, it's breath-taking
>
>>B: Cool music. 'nuff said.
>
>WHAT!!!!!! are we taking about the same anime,.... I heard the beginning of the first episode, and I almost gaged myself to death,,.... the second episode is a bit better, but they are WAY WAY WAY better music than THAT,.... brrrrrrr.... I'm getting the chills....
Wow, that is one line without any CR/LF's. Please the return
key a couple of times.
I thought the acappella(sp) was pretty haunting, and the Sharon
Apple stuff was really great, sort of like a bubble-gummy Ministry with
the distortion vocals. Jingoro said the concert reminded him of Siouxi
and the Banshees (SP!).
>>C: Several neat combat sequences. (I've heard that the reason that #4 is
>>held up is because it's almost one complete battle scene that's difficult
>>to animate.)
>
>Yeah, that another good point, BUT,... when I first saw the first episode of the series, I YELLED ( BY GEORGE IT'S A GUNDAM STEAL..... guess why????)
Wow...Macross was a Gundam Rip-off...Gundam was a
Mazinger/Giant Robo/etc ripoff...
>>D: Believable characters. They aren't perfect, or fall into any standard
>>anime stereotype. (Alright, the char designs could be a little better.
>>But other than Lucy (who has a snooze about two feet long), they are
>>pretty good.)
>
>WHAT!!!!! the characters SUCK, BIG TIME, the character design is totally boring, no imagination, and worst of all, almost like american cartoons design... brrrr....
*shrug*
>>H: A lot of mysteries that beg me to watch more to find out the answers
>>to them.
>
>What mysteries?????, didn't see any on the first 2 episodes, it's just a rivalry between two idiots who hate each others guts.... the only interesting thing is about, HOW they become like that.....
Let me guess, you watched Mac+ with preformed opinions.
Prabal Nandy
>Here, still hoping for more threads about the original TV series. =)
Sure, here goes for the nth time!
What was the _original_ Macross plot? I know they weren't looking for
"Pro-to-Cul-Ture" and I guess it wasn't the Male-Female war of the Sexes
that we see in M:DYRL, so what was it? Just huntin' for the SDF-1?
--
Prabal Nandy
>>Bandai? I have to admit, something about the way the Mac+ Valks are animated
>>doesn't 'feel' like the classic valk... Valks weren't ever supposed to 'fly
>>around' in Battleoid mode, right?
>
>Well, they never actually *fly*. They jump, they free-fall, they glide on
>the momentum generated by their speed when they changed from jet to battloid
>mode, but they don't fly like Gundams do.
Hmmm...
What about that scene where Isamu-Cruise first gets the YF-19? As I
recall, he pushes it to the envelope... Yells "Yahoo!" falls back,
transforms, and begins jetting around all over the place in Battleoid mode,
right?
The thing is, when your surface area is, what, 100 times that of a
regular human, the density of the air becomes a real impediment to movement!
You can't really expect humanlike motions with... ah, forget it.
Still, I do like the fact that they pay attention to contrails and show a
big 'splash' of condensation when transformations occur at high speed.
Prabal Nandy
>established a galactic empire through the use of their creations, the Zentrady.
>After the establishment of their empire, they created another race of giants,
>the Inspection Forces (or "Inspection Army", if you prefer). Because of
Hmmm!
I see... Do we ever actually see an IF-alien anywhere in the original
Macross series? Are their mecha/weapons/ships supposed to look like their
Zentraedi counterparts? (I don't really know what the SDF-1 looked like
BEFORE it was repaired, BTW.)
>the Protoculture themselves. Thousands of years later, with the IF close
>to defeat, one of their ships disappeared from battle, was boobytrapped and
>abandoned, and then was sent off into deep space, only to end up crashlanding
Was this intentional on the part of the IF? (It certainly sounds like
it), if so... what was their motovation? Er... should we consider the IF, in
that case, to sort of be 'good-guys'?
>the ship, a Zentrady fleet under the command of Britai was scouring
>the galaxy in an attempt to seek and destroy the missing IF ship. (For
All those ships, all that trouble... for ONE ship?
>And now you know...The Rest of the Story :)
Heh heh, thanks!
Edward Seehwan Kwon
: In article <falcon.13...@best.com>,
: Peter L. Ward <fal...@best.com> wrote:
: >Actually, considering that last Gundam series (G-Gundam), this would be a
: >massive improvement. Luckily, word on Gundam Wing is more encouraging and
: >there's an 008x-era OAV series coming out.!
Those RX-78 Mass production types DO look like Mk.II's!
****************************************** Eddie Kwon ****************
* She walks in beauty, like the night * email: zgu...@umich.edu *
* Of cloudless climes and starry skies * ANIMANIA/GOKURAKU *
* And all that's best of dark and bright * Saiya-jin Prod./Neo-GOKURAKU
* Meet in her aspect and her eyes * Devotee of Belldandy *
* -Byron * since 1993 *
****************************************** *AMG*AMS*AMG*AMS*AMG*AMS*AMG*
Enrique Conty
>In article <3s1qir$g...@newdelph.cig.mot.com> co...@rtsg.mot.com (Enrique Conty) writes:
>>>Valks weren't ever supposed to 'fly around' in Battleoid mode, right?
>>
>>Well, they never actually *fly*. They jump, they free-fall, they glide on
>>the momentum generated by their speed when they changed from jet to battloid
>>mode, but they don't fly like Gundams do.
>
>recall, he pushes it to the envelope... Yells "Yahoo!" falls back,
>transforms, and begins jetting around all over the place in Battleoid mode,
>right?
It looked to me *very* much like the way skydivers move while they're
dropping down, before they open the chute. Not at all like propelled
flight...
Aside: I noticed both mecha have jumpjets with hovering capability.
(End of #1 and during the big fight in #2)
--
Enrique Conty
co...@cig.mot.com
Lester Yung
>In article <3s2be8$7...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> yu...@gsb015.cs.ualberta.ca (Lester Yung) writes:
>>established a galactic empire through the use of their creations, the Zentrady.
>>After the establishment of their empire, they created another race of giants,
>>the Inspection Forces (or "Inspection Army", if you prefer). Because of
> Hmmm!
> I see... Do we ever actually see an IF-alien anywhere in the original
>Macross series? Are their mecha/weapons/ships supposed to look like their
>Zentraedi counterparts? (I don't really know what the SDF-1 looked like
>BEFORE it was repaired, BTW.)
They've never shown an actual member of the IF before. As for their ships,
they have more straight lines and angles to them than the Zentrady ships. One
example of their ships, besides the SDF-1, was shown in the episode
"Viva Miriya", the one in which our heroes commandeer an automated factory
satellite. The IF ship, or rather what was left of it, was the space junk
they pass by on their way to the satellite.
>>the Protoculture themselves. Thousands of years later, with the IF close
>>to defeat, one of their ships disappeared from battle, was boobytrapped and
>>abandoned, and then was sent off into deep space, only to end up crashlanding
> Was this intentional on the part of the IF? (It certainly sounds like
>it), if so... what was their motovation? Er... should we consider the IF, in
>that case, to sort of be 'good-guys'?
If you're asking if sending the ship to Earth was intentional, IMO I don't
think so. To the best of my knowledge, only the Protoculture knew about Earth.
>>the ship, a Zentrady fleet under the command of Britai was scouring
>>the galaxy in an attempt to seek and destroy the missing IF ship. (For
> All those ships, all that trouble... for ONE ship?
It wouldn't be much fun if nothing happened after the first few Zentrady ships
set off the boobytrap, now would it? :)
Prabal Nandy
>They've never shown an actual member of the IF before. As for their ships,
>they have more straight lines and angles to them than the Zentrady ships. One
I see... It's a pity then, so they were exterminated, even though they
were supposed to be the superior species?
Is there some reason they were called the "Inspection Army"? Were they
supposed to fullfill some specific role for the Protoculture, like the
Zentraedi?
>If you're asking if sending the ship to Earth was intentional, IMO I don't
>think so. To the best of my knowledge, only the Protoculture knew about Earth.
Is there a relation between the Protoculture and Earth... and if so, why
did they keep it a secret from the Zetraedi and IF?
>It wouldn't be much fun if nothing happened after the first few Zentrady ships
>set off the boobytrap, now would it? :)
Heh heh... I suppose not!
Lester Yung
>In article <3s4tul$3...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> yu...@gsb009.cs.ualberta.ca (Lester Yung) writes:
>>They've never shown an actual member of the IF before. As for their ships,
>>they have more straight lines and angles to them than the Zentrady ships. One
> I see... It's a pity then, so they were exterminated, even though they
>were supposed to be the superior species?
Exterminated? I don't recall if it was said outright, but taking into account
the numerical superiority of the Zentrady, I imagine so. As to whether or not
the IF were superior to the Zentrady in any way, I don't think it's ever been
said.
> Is there some reason they were called the "Inspection Army"? Were they
>supposed to fullfill some specific role for the Protoculture, like the
>Zentraedi?
Another bit of information the show's creators have neglected to give.
Judging by their name, however, I suppose the IF were meant to police or
oversee the citizens of the galactic empire.
> Is there a relation between the Protoculture and Earth... and if so, why
>did they keep it a secret from the Zetraedi and IF?
Oh, boy, this is a tough one for me to answer, since I haven't seen
the episodes in which Exedore explains everything to the Earth forces.
According to Shoji Kawamori's Macross Chronology in _Macross Perfect Memory_,
the Protoculture did visit Earth in its past. As to whether or not we were
descended from them, like in the movie, or why we weren't known to either
giant species, I don't know.
Egan, are you out there? Maybe you'd like to field this one? I'd like to know
the answer to this one, too.
Prabal Nandy
>I liked the begining music (espically the Japanese version, sans
>instruments, although the American version is ok). It gave me chills.
I wish Anime would have more music like that. More single-vocal types...
perhaps more traditional types (in the same way that alot of Modern movies
have classical music in them), and perhaps even music like from "Akira",
i.e., strange modern stuff with traditional instruments.
ANYTHING but J-pop!
>Ok, I guess I need to spell them out. They are:
>
>What exactly happened seven years ago that split up the group?
Some did a little bit too much of something with Myung, that's the gist it
seems like.
>Why won't Myung sing, even in private with friends?
Understandable... Association, you see. Also, might be part of her
work-contract. Perhaps psychological trauma? You know what Music does to the
Zentraedi!
>Why did Guld lose control of the YF-21 at the end of episode 1?
He got MMMAAAAADDDD and lost his Zen-Concentration hand-position, etc.
GRIN!
>How the heck did Guld kick the crap out of Isamu at the end of episode 2?
Wid a gun, I believe!
>Which mecha will win the contract?
The YF-19, of course! We know that! We also know that Guld lives, right?
Haro-chan
>>From: ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Haro-chan)
>>later half of UC 0079, and not after the One Year's War.
>
>there. One of the Gundams in the illustration (facing back) had maneuvering
>jets that looked like those on a Gundam Mk II (Zeta-era for those who aren't
>mecha otaku).
Remember, these images of the RX-78 Gundam Mass-Produce Type with those
rear apogee motors are preliminary ones based on initial designs. The
finalized design appears in the July issue. It has, ah, changed. =/
Okawara has done it again (whether that is a compliment or a critique
will depend on your opinion). The underlying story seems promising, though.
>By the way, the same issue had a really neat photo-illustration
>of a pair of Gundams walking in a river. I think this was inspired by the
>08th OAV.
So says the caption. =) This is yet another installement in Katoki's
monthly CGI image series. Note again that this image is based on
preliminary designs.
Haro-chan
series.
In article <3s79fu$p...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>,
Lester Yung <yu...@cab018.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>>In article <3s4tul$3...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> yu...@gsb009.cs.ualberta.ca (Lester Yung) writes:
>> I see... It's a pity then, so they were exterminated, even though they
>>were supposed to be the superior species?
>
>Exterminated? I don't recall if it was said outright, but taking into account
>the numerical superiority of the Zentrady, I imagine so. As to whether or not
>the IF were superior to the Zentrady in any way, I don't think it's ever been
>said.
The Inspection Army was almost soundly defeated, but not quite
exterminated. Global mentions that remnants still continue to fight the
Zentradi when explaining why Humanity must migrate and colonize in the
final episode.
>> Is there some reason they were called the "Inspection Army"? Were they
>>supposed to fullfill some specific role for the Protoculture, like the
>>Zentraedi?
>
>Another bit of information the show's creators have neglected to give.
>Judging by their name, however, I suppose the IF were meant to police or
>oversee the citizens of the galactic empire.
The Inspection Army name was simply a hold-over from the earliest
production story drafts that Studio Nue brainstormed. The original name for
the enemy that attacks Earth was Kansatsu Gun ("Inspection Army" or
"Forces," although Takatoku, Kadokawa, Bandai, et al, use "Army" for
alien military groups). After the concept of two opposing sides that
formed a schism in a civil war was developed and the "Zentradi" name was
coined, the Inspection Army name was relegated to the secondary role it
now holds.
>> Is there a relation between the Protoculture and Earth... and if so, why
>>did they keep it a secret from the Zetraedi and IF?
>Oh, boy, this is a tough one for me to answer, since I haven't seen
>the episodes in which Exedore explains everything to the Earth forces.
>According to Shoji Kawamori's Macross Chronology in _Macross Perfect Memory_,
>the Protoculture did visit Earth in its past. As to whether or not we were
>descended from them, like in the movie, or why we weren't known to either
>giant species, I don't know.
>
>Egan, are you out there? Maybe you'd like to field this one? I'd like to know
>the answer to this one, too.
According to the second discussion meeting regarding Zentradi and
Protoculture (episode 31, Satan's Dolls), the Zentradi and Inspection
Army were artificially created by the Protoculture for the sole purpose of
warfare (hense the title of the episode). When asked about the
Protoculture's connection with Humans, Exedore said that it exerted an
influence on Huamnkind's ancestors. Hikaru increduously asks if this
means that we are an artificial race, but Global replies that he doesn't
think so. The implication is that though Protoculture did not "create"
us per se, it did tweak with our ancestors' genes. More importantly, it
seemed to use the genes it discovered and surveyed on Earth as a basis for
the Zentradi and the Inspection Army. The Protoculture would have no
inclination to tell its genetically-created "human weapons" of their
origins before being annihilated, so it was almost by accident several
hundred thousand years later that the Zentradi would learn.
http://server.berkeley.edu/~eganloo
/Macross/2.Story/Chronology/BC25000000000.1998.html
j patrick platter
this heading. So, if the new series coming out is going to be
set near the end of the One Year War (roughly the a few months
before Al met Bernie?) then I take it they will customize/modify
old units, much like they did for 0083? What's the animation
been like anyways? I saw a gif from Wing Gundam and I noticed
the characters have taken on a more stereotypical anime look.
Jp
Prabal Nandy
>Remember, these images of the RX-78 Gundam Mass-Produce Type with those
>rear apogee motors are preliminary ones based on initial designs. The
>finalized design appears in the July issue. It has, ah, changed. =/
>Okawara has done it again (whether that is a compliment or a critique
Let me guess...
It now strongly resembles the Gee-Gundam?
Prabal Nandy
>The Inspection Army was almost soundly defeated, but not quite
>exterminated. Global mentions that remnants still continue to fight the
>Zentradi when explaining why Humanity must migrate and colonize in the
>final episode.
It implication being that there's no way for us to join up with the
Inspector-boys, is there? Hmmm. I was wondering if the Maeltraedi had
something to do with them, since their ships look visibly different and more
angular than the regular Z-Ships.
>The Inspection Army name was simply a hold-over from the earliest
>production story drafts that Studio Nue brainstormed. The original name for
Ah, I see! Good info!
>"Forces," although Takatoku, Kadokawa, Bandai, et al, use "Army" for
>alien military groups). After the concept of two opposing sides that
Is this a 'Convention' then among Japanese animators?
>Protoculture (episode 31, Satan's Dolls), the Zentradi and Inspection
>Army were artificially created by the Protoculture for the sole purpose of
>warfare (hense the title of the episode). When asked about the
BTW, they never explain WHO the Zentraedi were created to fight, right?
And the original Protoculture, BTW, were human-sized dudes, right?
>us per se, it did tweak with our ancestors' genes. More importantly, it
>seemed to use the genes it discovered and surveyed on Earth as a basis for
>the Zentradi and the Inspection Army. The Protoculture would have no
I see..
So the big funky city they find in M:DYRL is non-canon with the TV series
then. Could this mean that the Zentraedi have more in common with humans
than with the Protoculture?
Prabal Nandy
>The concept of Meltrandi was only used in the Macross movie (a Zentrady versus
>Meltrandi war, in lieu of a Zentrady versus Inspection Forces war).
>The females in the TV series, although segregated from the male population,
>were simply referred to as female Zentrady, and their ships were just as
>amorphous as the male Zentrady ships.
I realize that Female Zentraedi were still part of the 'same' military,
just segregated (no "Battle of the Sexes" here!)..
But I WAS under the impression from the TV show and the 'Robotech'
Sourcebooks that the Maeltraedi had visible different looking (but still
kinda amorphous looking) ships. For example, almost all Zentraedi ships are
sausage shaped. I was under the impression that Maeltraedi ships had flaps
and fins and either long pointy single bows or double-bows.
banana
: Every one and everything including the human race appear to be
: directly descended from an ancient galaxy spanning empire called the
: Micron Protoculture. As to what the giant fleets were created to
: fight...probably each other...and anything else that seemed dangerous.
: So far most of the giant fleets seem to be headed by big fortresses
: with a giant entral eye....who knows...these colud be the descendants
: of the major warlords of the Proto-culture. Anyway...the macross
: creators are bound to reaveal it all someday.....
Judging by what they "create" now, I really don't think they're qualified
to "create" anymore. But who is? I don't know...
*sigh...*
B.D.
Stainless Steel Rat
Prabal> But I WAS under the impression from the TV show and the
Prabal> 'Robotech' Sourcebooks that the Maeltraedi
Back up! There are no "Meltrandi" in Robotech or any of the RT RPG
sourcebooks.
Interesting side note, in the language they invented for the movie,
"zentran" means "male" and "meltran" means "female". Thus, their entire
war can be literally summed up as "men vs. women".
Prabal> had visible different looking (but still kinda amorphous
Prabal> looking) ships. For example, almost all Zentraedi ships are
Prabal> sausage shaped. I was under the impression that Maeltraedi ships
Prabal> had flaps and fins and either long pointy single bows or
Prabal> double-bows.
Nope. Both male and female Zentraedi use the same classes of ships. Only
in the movie (which isn't Robotech, nor is it Macross, really) is a
difference in ships, and that's because they're enemies, not allies.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/|away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |head.
Emery Calame
Well, as I understand the weird timelines and the general spirit of
Macross....
The proto-culture is some kind of very advanced race of genetic
wizards who can do azll sorts of nifty stuff. They break apart in some
sort of war called the Divissive conflict. The remenants of the
proto-culture develop into various races with similar technology. Thus
we have Meltrandi, Zentraedi, the now non-canon Marduk, Never seen
Inspection forces, the many remaining Space Fleets mentioned in DYRL
the Space Tavelers who built the city on Earth in DYRL , the weird
giants in power armor fought in the beginning of Macross+ and probably
the Varaota as well although I've got no info at all on the new Macross
& stuff.
directly descended from an ancient galaxy spanning empire called the
Micron Protoculture. As to what the giant fleets were created to
fight...probably each other...and anything else that seemed dangerous.
So far most of the giant fleets seem to be headed by big fortresses
with a giant entral eye....who knows...these colud be the descendants
of the major warlords of the Proto-culture. Anyway...the macross
creators are bound to reaveal it all someday.....
EM
Lester Yung
>In article <3sar28$r...@agate.berkeley.edu> ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Haro-chan) writes:
>>The Inspection Army was almost soundly defeated, but not quite
>>exterminated. Global mentions that remnants still continue to fight the
>>Zentradi when explaining why Humanity must migrate and colonize in the
>>final episode.
> It implication being that there's no way for us to join up with the
>Inspector-boys, is there? Hmmm. I was wondering if the Maeltraedi had
>something to do with them, since their ships look visibly different and more
>angular than the regular Z-Ships.
The concept of Meltrandi was only used in the Macross movie (a Zentrady versus
Meltrandi war, in lieu of a Zentrady versus Inspection Forces war).
The females in the TV series, although segregated from the male population,
were simply referred to as female Zentrady, and their ships were just as
amorphous as the male Zentrady ships.
>>Protoculture (episode 31, Satan's Dolls), the Zentradi and Inspection
>>Army were artificially created by the Protoculture for the sole purpose of
>>warfare (hense the title of the episode). When asked about the
> BTW, they never explain WHO the Zentraedi were created to fight, right?
>And the original Protoculture, BTW, were human-sized dudes, right?
Yes. And yes.
Marco van Loon
Stainless Steel Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> "Prabal" == Prabal Nandy <pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> writes:
> Prabal> had visible different looking (but still kinda amorphous
> Prabal> looking) ships. For example, almost all Zentraedi ships are
> Prabal> sausage shaped. I was under the impression that Maeltraedi ships
> Prabal> had flaps and fins and either long pointy single bows or
> Prabal> double-bows.
>
> Nope. Both male and female Zentraedi use the same classes of ships. Only
There IS a difference between the ships of male and female Zentraedi
in Macross/Robotech : the ships of the males are green and the ships of the
females are purple.
Marco van Loon For pc-utils, qtflat, animeDOOM, JIS utils,
the anime pocket guide,anime fanzines on
valk...@charm.il.ft.hse.nl internet and the Robotech computergame page:
veri...@stack.urc.tue.nl http://www.stack.urc.tue.nl/~veritech
Stainless Steel Rat
>> Nope. Both male and female Zentraedi use the same classes of ships. Only
Marco> There IS a difference between the ships of male and female
Marco> Zentraedi in Macross/Robotech : the ships of the males are green
Marco> and the ships of the females are purple.
Okay, so tell me how a green Queadol Magdomilla is a different class of
ship from a purple Queadol Magdomilla.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Emery Calame
(Haro-chan) writes:
>
>General clarifications that touches upon all aspects of the Macross
story:
>
>Before reading, please note that the quoted text blends story elements
>that were not meant to be mixed:
>
>In article <3sd1ja$2...@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
>Emery Calame <eme...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Well, as I understand the weird timelines and the general spirit
of
>>Macross....
>> The proto-culture is some kind of very advanced race of genetic
>>wizards who can do azll sorts of nifty stuff.
>
>True, with a certain poetic license. =)
>
>>They break apart in some
>>sort of war called the Divissive conflict.
>
>More accurately, the Stellar Republic/Galactic Empire of the
>Protoculture collapses in the Divisive War/Schism War.
>
>>The remenants of the
>>proto-culture develop into various races with similar technology.
>
>The Humans, Zentradi, and Inspection Army were all developed before
the
>Protoculture proper was annhilated.
>
>>Thus
>>we have Meltrandi, Zentraedi, the now non-canon Marduk, Never seen
>>Inspection forces, the many remaining Space Fleets mentioned in DYRL
>>the Space Tavelers who built the city on Earth in DYRL , the weird
>>giants in power armor fought in the beginning of Macross+ and
probably
>>the Varaota as well although I've got no info at all on the new
Macross
>>& stuff.
>
>Here we have some general mixing of different stories. The movie and
most
>story elements from it can be considered a retelling (albeit
>fictionalized) of Space War I. Macross II and its Mardook can be
>considered part of a parallel world.
>
>> Every one and everything including the human race appear to be
>>directly descended from an ancient galaxy spanning empire called the
>>Micron Protoculture.
>
>The Protoculture was the name of the people themselves. Its
governmeent
>was called the Stellar Republic/Galactic Empire. Only the Humans,
>Zentradi, and Inspection Army have had their roots traced back to the
>Protoculture.
>
>>As to what the giant fleets were created to
>>fight...probably each other...and anything else that seemed
dangerous.
>
>Originally, the Zentradi and Inspection Army were not created to fight
>each other. They were segregated to check each other, though.
>
>>So far most of the giant fleets seem to be headed by big fortresses
>>with a giant entral eye....
>
>This is true only in the movie and Macross II (assuming you mean the
main
>cannon for the "eye") The Bodol Fleet flagship in the original TV
>series was not shown to have such a cannon.
>
>--
> _______ Still looking for that Daremo anata no seishun wa
ubaenai
> /\ /\ elusive Haro UFO catcher doll.... No one can steal your
youth
> /_/ i i \_\ Haro-chan! Egan Loo --Mari
Iijima,
>|___________| ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu or @ocf.berkeley.edu "Love
Letter"
Well, I have nothing to argue with you on here, except my timeline
appears to have been translated a little differently...but what do you
expect, the guy who did it for me graduated and moved away several
years ago... Anyway, I was being purposefuly vague because the Macross
continuity is rapidly becoming a confusing Quagmire of contradiction
(try saying that 5 times fast) and was hoping to cover my butt in case
Macross7 gets booted, DYRL re-explained some other way, or what ever.
Actually my time line says something about a Micron Republic breaking
away from an empire (of the Protoculture)and this being the beginning
of the divissive war.
The Meltrandi did exist in the series, but they were allied with the
Zentraedi, and not really considered a seperate army, although I think
most of them were in a fleet other than Britai's. As for the original
Bodolza fortress....well, I've got a feeling that it's been trashed in
favor of the eye design, but you are right to point out that that idea
is currently non-canon.
I know that the Marduk are in a parallel Macross timeline, but
still it implied to me a plot direction that allows for a gazillion
different fleets all descended from the proto-culture, each with a big
ol eye fortress commanding it. Anyway, between it and the movie I get
the feeling that it was, at leats for a while the theme the creators
intended to pursue. Still, this was just a speculation.
Apparently the Microns had some kind of major part in the
Protoculture, because when the Zentraedi encountered them they were
told to get rid of them with haste. Unfortunately they chased the
macross to Pluto and Back instead. Yadda Yadda Yadda! Thanks fer
listening.
EM
Peter L. Ward
>From: pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
>Subject: Re: [Macross] Questions about the Original (was: Valkyrie Nicknames)
>Date: 2 Jul 1995 02:34:04 -0400
>In article <3t47p8$k...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> eme...@ix.netcom.com (Emery Calame ) writes:
>> Apparently the Microns had some kind of major part in the
>>Protoculture, because when the Zentraedi encountered them they were
>>told to get rid of them with haste. Unfortunately they chased the
> I thought Exedore told Breetai that they were supposed to
>_Leave_microns_alone...
Don't you know? Exedore's there to be ignored! After all, Max ignored him in
Macross 7 and guess where *they* ended up? :-) :-)
> "They Don' need no assimilation..."
> "They Don' need protoculture controoooo-ooool!"
> "Hey -- Breetai!..."
> "Leave those microns alone!"
> [Bamp, bah bah bum!]
"All in all, it's just another clone in the war!"
Couldn't resist :-)
>--
> /| ________________ |pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | Lord of the Flies
>O|===|* >________________> |http://sunset.bph.jhu.edu| 1st MPC Division
> \| | /Myops.home.html | Colony Mechworks
> Velox - Durus - Infestus | na...@fos.stsci.edu | Colony World Myops
Peter L. Ward fal...@best.com Hiroshi on IRC #Anime!
It's time for Good Idea, Bad Idea, and Even Worse Idea!
Good Idea: Taking cooking lessons from Belldandy or Kasumi Tendo!
Bad Idea: Taking cooking lessons from Urd or Akane Tendo!
Even Worse Idea: Taking cooking lessons from C-ko Kotobuki!
Haro-chan
Prabal Nandy <pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> wrote:
> BTW, have they shown what the 'fold-booster' looks like?
Vol. 3 preview at the end of Macross Plus Vol. 2 (as well as in the
subsequent volumes themselves), and in Macross 7.
>I heard that in
>Mac7 the VF-17 uses a Booster pack to go to Earth (?), but I haven't heard
>any description of what it looks like, it's not internalized, is it?
The three VF-17s use one external fold booster each of the type developed by
the Super Nova competition to reach City 7 (which was quite far from
Earth at that point, to understate) that was stranded by a fold. However,
the Diamond Force did so despite the initial concerns of Captain Max
Jenius who considered the plan dangerous because the VF-17 was not
designed to specifically handle the stress of a self-initiated fold. The
VF-17s proved that it can be done, but they also proved that it is not
recommended.
Haro-chan
Well, I'm glad a thread on the orignal series has grown, albeit embedded
deep in a Plus thread. =)
In article <3s2be8$7...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>,
Lester Yung <yu...@gsb015.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>> Sure, here goes for the nth time!
>> What was the _original_ Macross plot? I know they weren't looking for
>
>In the beginning, there was the Protoculture, an ancient race of humanoids who
>established a galactic empire through the use of their creations, the Zentrady.
>After the establishment of their empire, they created another race of giants,
>the Inspection Forces (or "Inspection Army", if you prefer).
The dialogue in the original series does not say that the Inspection Army
was created after the Zentradi. In fact, it indicates that they were made at
roughly the same time.
>on Earth. While the nations of Earth were busy fighting a war over
>world unification, learning to master the alien technology, and repairing
>the ship, a Zentrady fleet under the command of Britai was scouring
>the galaxy in an attempt to seek and destroy the missing IF ship.
The fleet was seeking to capture the ship, but not quite destroy it.
>(For
>the curious, the above information was extrapolated from books #90 and #100
>of Shogakukan's "Korotan" series, namely "The Macross Pocket Encylopeadia" and
>"The Macross Guide Book").
Kawamori's "The Lost Two Years" in Macross Perfect Memory and the Macross
Dictionary (supervised by him also) goes into more detail, and, next to
the anime itself, these books are the most canonical sources available.
Haro-chan
In article <3sc735$h...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>,
Prabal Nandy <pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <3sar28$r...@agate.berkeley.edu> ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Haro-chan) writes:
>
>>The Inspection Army was almost soundly defeated, but not quite
>>exterminated. Global mentions that remnants still continue to fight the
>>Zentradi when explaining why Humanity must migrate and colonize in the
>>final episode.
>
> It implication being that there's no way for us to join up with the
>Inspector-boys, is there?
[And/or Inspection-girls -- let's not assume. =)] There is no implication
one way or the other.
>Hmmm. I was wondering if the Maeltraedi had
>something to do with them, since their ships look visibly different and more
>angular than the regular Z-Ships.
If you are referring to the Meltlandi in the movie, they don't have any
"actual" connection to the Inspection Army, since the movie was
fictionalized in the Macross story.
>>"Forces," although Takatoku, Kadokawa, Bandai, et al, use "Army" for
>>alien military groups). After the concept of two opposing sides that
>
> Is this a 'Convention' then among Japanese animators?
No, just consistency among the marketeers. =) (It's probably
coincidental, too.) Personally, I prefer the more apt translation
"Forces" as Lester Yung does, but I try to be as verbatim as possible or
feasible on this.
>>Protoculture (episode 31, Satan's Dolls), the Zentradi and Inspection
>>Army were artificially created by the Protoculture for the sole purpose of
>>warfare (hense the title of the episode). When asked about the
>
> BTW, they never explain WHO the Zentraedi were created to fight, right?
If you mean specific races and planets they were fighting as opposed to why
they were fighting, that was not mentioned in the original TV series'
dialogue.
>And the original Protoculture, BTW, were human-sized dudes, right?
Yes.
> So the big funky city they find in M:DYRL is non-canon with the TV series
>then. Could this mean that the Zentraedi have more in common with humans
>than with the Protoculture?
Both are Protoculture's "descendants" once removed.
Haro-chan
--
Haro-chan
j patrick platter <jpla...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> Well, I'm not going to repost everything everybody else put under
>this heading. So, if the new series coming out is going to be
>set near the end of the One Year War (roughly the a few months
>before Al met Bernie?)
The 08th MS Team/Platoon story will begin three months before the end of
the One Year's War.
>then I take it they will customize/modify
>old units, much like they did for 0083?
It will feature a mixture of old, modified, and new designs, including
some non-MS vehicles, the RX-78 Gundam Mass-Produce Type (ignore the
misleading images in the June issue of Newtype), and yet another
prototype Jion MS piloted a one Aina Sakhalin. [aside: Replace the "na"
with "nu," and you have someone on staff who has a keen understanding of
geography and history. =P]
>What's the animation
>been like anyways?
It is difficult to say; it hasn't been animated yet. =)
>I saw a gif from Wing Gundam and I noticed
>the characters have taken on a more stereotypical anime look.
Uh, "stereotypical"?
Prabal Nandy
>> I thought Exedore told Breetai that they were supposed to
>Don't you know? Exedore's there to be ignored! After all, Max ignored him in
Poor dude!
That's what you get for being 45 feet tall when everyone else is pushing
60!
>> "They Don' need no assimilation..."
>> "They Don' need protoculture controoooo-ooool!"
>> "Hey -- Breetai!..."
>> "Leave those microns alone!"
>> [Bamp, bah bah bum!]
>
>"All in all, it's just another clone in the war!"
>Couldn't resist :-)
Blah ha ha ha ha!
Ah, Pete, you got me there! Bravo!
Prabal Nandy
> The Meltrandi did exist in the series, but they were allied with the
>Zentraedi, and not really considered a seperate army, although I think
>most of them were in a fleet other than Britai's. As for the original
I think I vaguely remember an episode when Miria's Commander brought her
ship in front of Breetai's ship and brought her guns to bear on him to
prevent him from doing _something_, but I can't remember any more...
>still it implied to me a plot direction that allows for a gazillion
>different fleets all descended from the proto-culture, each with a big
>ol eye fortress commanding it. Anyway, between it and the movie I get
Got to love the ol' Butt-Kickin' Eye-Fortress eh? What a funky looking
treestump from hell!
Still, one wonders where the heck all them salami-class Submarine Sandwich
ships keep coming from, do the Zen-Boys have tons of those automated
factories?
Couple more questions:
1. What's the Macross TV series factory Satellite look like?
2. In the "Robotech" RPG, I vaguely remember a 'robot-battlepod' factory
defense mech that looked like a Standard Regult Battlepod with three
huge oversized guns.. is this canon?
> Apparently the Microns had some kind of major part in the
>Protoculture, because when the Zentraedi encountered them they were
>told to get rid of them with haste. Unfortunately they chased the
I thought Exedore told Breetai that they were supposed to
_Leave_microns_alone...
"They Don' need no assimilation..."
"They Don' need protoculture controoooo-ooool!"
"Hey -- Breetai!..."
"Leave those microns alone!"
[Bamp, bah bah bum!]
Emery Calame
Nandy) writes:
>
> I think I vaguely remember an episode when Miria's Commander brought
her
>ship in front of Breetai's ship and brought her guns to bear on him to
>prevent him from doing _something_, but I can't remember any more...
It was Kamjin's ship weren't it? :*
> Got to love the ol' Butt-Kickin' Eye-Fortress eh? What a funky
looking
>treestump from hell!
Yep, Bodolza's looked like a cactur, or a christmas tree( in the movie)
The Meltrandi version was a Boomerang( in the movie)
And the Marduk version looklie a big ol'stump
(in the disowned OAV)
> Still, one wonders where the heck all them salami-class Submarine
Sandwich
>ships keep coming from, do the Zen-Boys have tons of those automated
>factories?
Hard to say,but If I remember right the factories had very high serial
numbers when mentioned in the Macross Perfect Memory timeline..
> Couple more questions:
> 1. What's the Macross TV series factory Satellite look like?
Just like the one in Robotech.....Surprised? It was shown in the last
few episodes which weremade when Macross fans in Japan demanded more...
> 2. In the "Robotech" RPG, I vaguely remember a 'robot-battlepod'
factory defense mech that looked like a Standard Regult Battlepod with
three huge oversized guns.. is this canon?
>
Well, huge oversized guns might be construed as cannon! Ha ha ha ha !
Just kidding.... In Robotech the defense droids might be might be
canon. Ask Jack McKinney, or somebody at Harmony Gold...maybe Carl
Macek. As for Macross : no. They were just another weird idea Mr.
Siembieda had,or maybe just one of his employees. (The guy who runs
Palladium) You ought to ask that " Haro " guy about this..he seems to
have cleaner facts on Macross than I do. Anyway a guy who names himself
after a recurring,round Gundam bot can't be all bad...:)
>> Apparently the Microns had some kind of major part in the
>>Protoculture, because when the Zentraedi encountered them they were
>>told to get rid of them with haste. Unfortunately they chased the
>
> I thought Exedore told Breetai that they were supposed to
>_Leave_microns_alone...
Yeah..that's true. But Bodolza wanted 'em wiped out...
> "They Don' need no assimilation..."
> "They Don' need protoculture controoooo-ooool!"
> "Hey -- Breetai!..."
> "Leave those microns alone!"
> [Bamp, bah bah bum!]
Probably you'll go to hell for this^....just a friendly warning. :0
EM
Roger Harkavy
>It will feature a mixture of old, modified, and new designs, including
>some non-MS vehicles, the RX-78 Gundam Mass-Produce Type (ignore the
>misleading images in the June issue of Newtype), and yet another
>prototype Jion MS piloted a one Aina Sakhalin. [aside: Replace the "na"
>with "nu," and you have someone on staff who has a keen understanding of
>geography and history. =P]
MS ERA that will have more artwork like that, or just an unrelated tease?
If I could read the Japanese text underneath the picture, I would know.
- Roger
Prabal Nandy
>> I think I vaguely remember an episode when Miria's Commander brought
>>ship in front of Breetai's ship and brought her guns to bear on him to
>It was Kamjin's ship weren't it? :*
Hmm.. Not as I recall. BTW, what kind of ship did Kamjin use? A
Queadol-Magdomillia? If so, have we ever seen one of those split in half?
>Yep, Bodolza's looked like a cactur, or a christmas tree( in the movie)
>The Meltrandi version was a Boomerang( in the movie)
>And the Marduk version looklie a big ol'stump
Can't quite remember B'Dolza's Stump-ship though it was probably some big
chunky shapeless rock thing... Kinda neat to have a big fortress ship,
though it doesn't seem all that useful.
>Hard to say,but If I remember right the factories had very high serial
>numbers when mentioned in the Macross Perfect Memory timeline..
I see... Was the one the RDF found in Macross still running?
Is this where the Mac-Cannons and other such Zenstyale ships come from in
MacII?
>> 1. What's the Macross TV series factory Satellite look like?
>Just like the one in Robotech.....Surprised? It was shown in the last
>few episodes which weremade when Macross fans in Japan demanded more...
No... but what I mean is that I never saw that episode. Last I remember
the SDF-1 Gets trogged by Kyrhon's Submarine-Sandwich-ship...
> Well, huge oversized guns might be construed as cannon! Ha ha ha ha !
Argh! I did see this one coming!
>Macek. As for Macross : no. They were just another weird idea Mr.
>Siembieda had,or maybe just one of his employees. (The guy who runs
You know... I'm beginning to wonder who much stuff from the Palladium RPGs
was non-cannon-crap. Especially among the Invid: Did we ever actually see
"Armored Scouts" "Scout-Troopers" (i.e., Shock-Troopers without the
'Annihalation Disk' Cannons) "Royal Guard Troopers" and the silly looking
"Inorganics"?
>> "They Don' need no assimilation..."
>> "They Don' need protoculture controoooo-ooool!"
>> "Hey -- Breetai!..."
>> "Leave those microns alone!"
>> [Bamp, bah bah bum!]
>Probably you'll go to hell for this^....just a friendly warning. :0
Nah! There's got to be some anime-fans out there with a sense of humor!?
Actually, I like Pete's addition: "All and all you're justa'-- 'Nother
clone in the war!"
Which leads me to the question: "What do you think would happen if Pink
Floyd was on the SDF-1 rather than Minmei"?
Heh heh heh... My guess is that they would have incited civil war among
the Zentraedi!
Jeremy Thorp Fox
: >Hard to say,but If I remember right the factories had very high serial
: >numbers when mentioned in the Macross Perfect Memory timeline..
: I see... Was the one the RDF found in Macross still running?
: Is this where the Mac-Cannons and other such Zenstyale ships come from in
: MacII?
No, Mac II is a sequel to Macross the Movie (DYRL), which contains no
scene in which anyone captures a factory satellite.
: You know... I'm beginning to wonder who much stuff from the Palladium RPGs
: was non-cannon-crap. Especially among the Invid: Did we ever actually see
: "Armored Scouts" "Scout-Troopers" (i.e., Shock-Troopers without the
: 'Annihalation Disk' Cannons) "Royal Guard Troopers" and the silly looking
: "Inorganics"?
All of these desgins are seen in either the Robotech Third Generation
(Invid Invasion) or Robotech II: The Sentinels. The Inorganics, which
were pretty lame and very un-Invid, were in the Sentinels. What you call
the "Royal Guard Troopers" are simply the red versions of what the RPG
calls the Enforcer: the humanoid and human-sized Invid mecha. They are
also seen hangin' with the Regent in the Sentinels.
Hope this helps,
Jeremy T. Fox Baker College
f...@rice.edu Rice University
(713) 630-8024 6320 S. Main St.
I'm your friend, really... Houston TX, 77005
banana
: In article <3t47p8$k...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> eme...@ix.netcom.com (Emery Calame ) writes:
: > The Meltrandi did exist in the series, but they were allied with the
: >Zentraedi, and not really considered a seperate army, although I think
: >most of them were in a fleet other than Britai's. As for the original
: I think I vaguely remember an episode when Miria's Commander brought her
: ship in front of Breetai's ship and brought her guns to bear on him to
: prevent him from doing _something_, but I can't remember any more...
: Got to love the ol' Butt-Kickin' Eye-Fortress eh? What a funky looking
: treestump from hell!
Yeah, deranged treestump, or, giant cactus, or spikey lookin' thing. I
liked 'em. :)
B.D.
Emery Calame
Nandy) writes:
> Hmm.. Not as I recall. BTW, what kind of ship did Kamjin use? A
>Queadol-Magdomillia? If so, have we ever seen one of those split in
half?
Kamjin had a whole, small fleet of Salan and commanded from a
Magdomilla. It was modified(with an extended forward hull) and painted
red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
killed the Macross's crew though.
> Can't quite remember B'Dolza's Stump-ship though it was probably
some big
>chunky shapeless rock thing... Kinda neat to have a big fortress ship,
>though it doesn't seem all that useful.
In DYRL(the Movie) Bodolza was informed that his main reflex cannon
had ebough power for only one shot. That one shot blew the utter HELL
out of the Meltrandi fleet, including their eye fortress and took out
those of his own ships which were engaged said poor unfortunate
Meltrandi bastards.
> I see... Was the one the RDF found in Macross still running?
> Is this where the Mac-Cannons and other such Zenstyale ships come
from in
>MacII?
I believe it was still running at a somewhat reduced capacity. In
Mac II the Zentraedi vessels seen were mostly repaired and refittted
ships captured in the first conflict(as seen in DYRL) and in the
subsequent Zentraedi fleet invasions that came after it. These later
invasions were easily beaten back by the Minmei attack.
By the way, there is no RDF in Macross. The military is called the
UN-Spacy.
>>> 1. What's the Macross TV series factory Satellite look like?
> No... but what I mean is that I never saw that episode. Last I
remember
>the SDF-1 Gets trogged by Kyrhon's Submarine-Sandwich-ship...
The Zentraedi weapons factory was captured and towed to Earth on the
advice of Britai who reasoned that it was a threat to peace in the area
and should be brought under Micron/Earth Zentraedi control or
destroyed.
It looked like a vaguely rectangular green and tan blob with five or
six smaller green and tan blobs connected to it via huge soda-straw
like pylons.
>
> Argh! I did see this one coming!
What'sa matter ?
> You know... I'm beginning to wonder who much stuff from the
Palladium RPGs
>was non-cannon-crap. Especially among the Invid: Did we ever actually
see
>"Armored Scouts" "Scout-Troopers" (i.e., Shock-Troopers without the
>'Annihalation Disk' Cannons) "Royal Guard Troopers" and the silly
looking
>"Inorganics"?
Everything was canon except for the inorganics which are canon only
to Robotech. Actually the second generation destroids and the second
generation Zentredi combat pods are also made up. I think Macek
invented them, and they were designed by a Japanese animation studio,
who at first believed that they were being asked to make a sequel to
Macross.
They got frustrated because Mr. Macek didn't seem to understand that
the Invid weren't in Macross. It all got cleared up somehow. The three
episodes of Sentinels got made, backers pulled out, and the whole thing
flopped.
Siembieda called the cannonless Shock Troopers "Troopers". They
weren't really scouts, more like workers.
Genesis Climber Mospeada called all of the Invid units by different,
meaningless names that all sound like someone gurgling.
Scout: Iigaa
Armored Scout: Iigau
Invid Trooper/Worker : Gurab
Shock Trooper: Gurab with Cannon( catchy eh?)
Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
Pincer Command Unit: Gamo
Royal Command battloid: Gosu
The Invid Carrier : Shell-Dor
The Enforcer Hover rider,and the Invid Command ship were also made
up by Macek.
>>> "They Don' need no assimilation..."
>>> "They Don' need protoculture controoooo-ooool!"
>>> "Hey -- Breetai!..."
>>> "Leave those microns alone!"
>>> [Bamp, bah bah bum!]
> Nah! There's got to be some anime-fans out there with a sense of
humor!?
They might need three or four senses of humor to dealwith this.
> Actually, I like Pete's addition: "All and all you're justa'--
'Nother
>clone in the war!"
" Hey! Bodolza!? What'd you leave behind for Me?!!! "
> Which leads me to the question: "What do you think would happen if
Pink
>Floyd was on the SDF-1 rather than Minmei"?
Well, the crew of the Macross would've had extremely dilated pupils
if you know what I mean. And the Zentraedi might've agreed to a cease
fire if we'd let em come to the laser light show. Roger Waters would've
looked funny in that polka-dot dress though....
> Heh heh heh... My guess is that they would have incited civil war
among
>the Zentraedi!
>--
Actually, there was civil war between the Zentraedi...Can you say
Britai vs. Bodolza?
Em Lord of the uh...what do you call them
little green lizards? The One's with the red chins? Anoles? okay...
Em : Lord of the Anoles!
Haro-chan
Roger Harkavy <hark...@delphi.com> wrote:
>Haro-chan <ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu> writes:
[Re: The upcoming 08th MS Team/Platoon video series]
>>It will feature a mixture of old, modified, and new designs, including
>>some non-MS vehicles, the RX-78 Gundam Mass-Produce Type (ignore the
>>misleading images in the June issue of Newtype), and yet another
> I wondered about that picture. Was that a preview for a book like
>MS ERA that will have more artwork like that, or just an unrelated tease?
The image accompanying the article on the new video series is a
preliminary one based on initial production designs. The image that
appears on the last page is just another installment in Katoki's FX
Works CGI series, also based on initial production designs. The
finalized character designs have changed and the mechanical designs have
changed significantly.
Robert Jones
(Haro-chan) writes:
I hope it's actually good!R.
"Got a black magic (m-66) woman!"
Haro-chan
Emery Calame <eme...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <3t2gtg$i...@agate.berkeley.edu> ega...@uclink.berkeley.edu
>(Haro-chan) writes:
>>
>>General clarifications that touches upon all aspects of the Macross
>story:
> Well, I have nothing to argue with you on here, except my timeline
>appears to have been translated a little differently...but what do you
>expect, the guy who did it for me graduated and moved away several
>years ago...
That's why I believe one must translate for one's self; it holds one
accountable for the resulting translation and one can't blame anyone else
for mistakes. =)
>Anyway, I was being purposefuly vague because the Macross
>continuity is rapidly becoming a confusing Quagmire of contradiction
>(try saying that 5 times fast) and was hoping to cover my butt in case
>Macross7 gets booted, DYRL re-explained some other way, or what ever.
Rapidly becoming? =) Macross has always had differing continuities ever
since the movie gave a contradictory retelling of the events of Space War
I. If anything, there is more order in the Macross storyline now that each
project has been given a place in the scheme of things.
>Actually my time line says something about a Micron Republic breaking
>away from an empire (of the Protoculture)and this being the beginning
>of the divissive war.
I'm not from from Missouri, but you gotta show me. =) This is not how it
is described in the TV series dialogue or Macross Perfect Memory. The
Stellar Republic/Galactic Empire was dissolved by a schism between the
Inspection and Zentradi factions.
> I know that the Marduk are in a parallel Macross timeline, but
>still it implied to me a plot direction that allows for a gazillion
>different fleets all descended from the proto-culture, each with a big
"Eye fortresses" aside, there are plenty of fleets in the Macross storyline.
The 4.8-million-ship Bodolzaa fleet is described in the TV series as the
"118th" one of a much larger "Gorg Fleet" of the Zentradi ("Gorg" being
Zentradi for "giant.").
http://server.berkeley.edu/~eganloo/Macross/4.Mecha/Zentradi/MilitaryChart.html
>ol eye fortress commanding it. Anyway, between it and the movie I get
>the feeling that it was, at leats for a while the theme the creators
>intended to pursue. Still, this was just a speculation.
Remember only two of the main creators from any previous Macross project
worked on Macross II, so to say it explored themes the creators
intended to pursue is misleading.
> Apparently the Microns had some kind of major part in the
>Protoculture, because when the Zentraedi encountered them they were
>told to get rid of them with haste. Unfortunately they chased the
>macross to Pluto and Back instead. Yadda Yadda Yadda! Thanks fer
>listening.
They were not told that. According to Exedore, the warning in Zentradi
records is to avoid them, not destroy them. It is only later in the
series that Bodolzaa decided these Microns have had a dangerous
influence on Zentradi and decided to destroy them, contrary to the
original warning. Later it is learned that Protoculture were the ones
who inserted that warning, and considering that they were
Microns themselves, it would be ill-advised for them to give a
destroy-Micron command.
http://server.berkeley.edu/~eganloo/Macross/2.Story/StoryTitle.html
Haro-chan
Prabal Nandy <pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <falcon.15...@best.com> fal...@best.com (Peter L. Ward) writes:
>>Don't you know? Exedore's there to be ignored! After all, Max ignored him in
> Poor dude!
> That's what you get for being 45 feet tall when everyone else is pushing
>60!
If Exedore was 45 feet tall, he would be taller than Vrlitwhai. =) He
commander was 1354 cm tall, or just under 45 feet. Zentradi are "only" five
to six times taller than humans.
Haro-chan
Macross.
In article <3tafau$7...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Emery Calame <eme...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Kamjin had a whole, small fleet of Salan and commanded from a
>Magdomilla. It was modified(with an extended forward hull) and painted
Kamjin's Quaedol Magdomilla flagship is no different from any of the
others in that particular class. They all have a orbital module and a
detachable planetary descent module (unless it was lost in battle).
>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
Kamjin's ship was never red. Neither his first flagship nor his
subsequent cannon ship/gunboat was ever near the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 on the
Moon.
>killed the Macross's crew though.
The Macross crew were not killed in the final episode; we would not have
seen Misa with Hikaru otherwise.
> In DYRL(the Movie) Bodolza was informed that his main reflex cannon
It was not called a reflex cannon.
> The Zentraedi weapons factory was captured and towed to Earth on the
>advice of Britai who reasoned that it was a threat to peace in the area
>and should be brought under Micron/Earth Zentraedi control or
>destroyed.
> It looked like a vaguely rectangular green and tan blob with five or
>six smaller green and tan blobs connected to it via huge soda-straw
>like pylons.
The reason that was given in the dialogue was that the UN Forces wanted
it for its long-range buildup. It was not planning to destroy it. It was
mottled purplish red.
Prabal Nandy
>Kamjin had a whole, small fleet of Salan and commanded from a
>Magdomilla. It was modified(with an extended forward hull) and painted
Ahh... When I was younger I thought he had rammed with a Nupetiet
Vernitzes... Funny, I don't recall it being red!
>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
The SDF-1 was called the "MegaRoad"? (Don't recall hearing that name in
Macross before!)
> In DYRL(the Movie) Bodolza was informed that his main reflex cannon
>had ebough power for only one shot. That one shot blew the utter HELL
Right, but in DYRL it seems like ALL the Salami-Sandwich class ships had
bustaaa' beams of their own... of course it's hard to gauge the relative
powers of busta'-beams (heh heh.. well, THIS one destroys everything,
hmmm... so does this one!) I'd be suprised if it offsetted the much larger
size of the fortress complex.
>out of the Meltrandi fleet, including their eye fortress and took out
>those of his own ships which were engaged said poor unfortunate
>Meltrandi bastards.
Heh heh... You think he would have told them to break off, eh?
Regardless, the Maetrandi also had an eye-stump fortress? I sorta remember
it looking different.
[Factory Satellite]
> I believe it was still running at a somewhat reduced capacity. In
Ought to have been a big stockpile of weapons around it then! Totally
autonomous?
>Mac II the Zentraedi vessels seen were mostly repaired and refittted
>ships captured in the first conflict(as seen in DYRL) and in the
I see... Including the Macross-Cannons that look like they have twin NV
ships for their 'rail-guns'.
>invasions were easily beaten back by the Minmei attack.
Hrump... Hrumph... BLAH HA HA HA HA!
> It looked like a vaguely rectangular green and tan blob with five or
>six smaller green and tan blobs connected to it via huge soda-straw
>like pylons.
YEP. Sounds like hallmark Zentraedi tech to me!
> Siembieda called the cannonless Shock Troopers "Troopers". They
>weren't really scouts, more like workers.
I see... interesting.
The also seemed to be the only Invid mecha with long range weapons, the
regular scouts just seem to fly around and rip the hell out of whatever they
find..
>Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
These are the things that look like near-human sized vaguely
veritech-shaped armors?
>Pincer Command Unit: Gamo
Cannot remember ever seeing these... Were they sort of like the scout
troopers in shape?
>Royal Command battloid: Gosu
Again, can't remember this... I'm guessing it's a variant of the Gamo?
>The Invid Carrier : Shell-Dor
Heh heh heh... Shell-Door, eh? I getcha.
>> Nah! There's got to be some anime-fans out there with a sense of humor!?
> They might need three or four senses of humor to dealwith this.
Oh well, they'll evolve someday.
>Pink Floyd was on the SDF-1 rather than Minmei"?
> Well, the crew of the Macross would've had extremely dilated pupils
Heh heh heh..... I can just imagine them teaming up to raise havok and
anarchy throughout the universe!
>Actually, there was civil war between the Zentraedi...Can you say
>Britai vs. Bodolza?
Er... wasn't that a bit more like a mass-desertion?
Prabal Nandy
>More clean-up! The following contains spoilers on last nine episodes of
>
>others in that particular class. They all have a orbital module and a
>detachable planetary descent module (unless it was lost in battle).
We ever see any Zentraedi ships making an on-purpose planetfall?
>subsequent cannon ship/gunboat was ever near the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 on the
Cannon-Ship? What's that?
>The Macross crew were not killed in the final episode; we would not have
>seen Misa with Hikaru otherwise.
I thought that was because she didn't make it back to the SDF-1 before it
got slammed into by the front half of Kuajiin's ship.
>The reason that was given in the dialogue was that the UN Forces wanted
>it for its long-range buildup. It was not planning to destroy it. It was
>mottled purplish red.
You would then think that almost all UNT ships in later official Macross
timelines would look very Zentraedi... after all, the Satellite it probably
their best production facility left after the war!
Neil Nadelman
> You know... I'm beginning to wonder who much stuff from the Palladium RPGs
>was non-cannon-crap. Especially among the Invid: Did we ever actually see
>"Armored Scouts" "Scout-Troopers" (i.e., Shock-Troopers without the
>'Annihalation Disk' Cannons) "Royal Guard Troopers" and the silly looking
>"Inorganics"?
>
show. They were the Grubs (Shock Troopers, and they did sometimes
leave the plasma guns off those things. Annihilation disks...
For Pete's sake...), Eagles (The red, cool-looking ones),
the Genesis Climber armor (Corg and Sera's armor. And the GC designation
is my own, not canon), and the little powered suits the Invid
royal gauuard and other non mainline battle troopers wore.
The Inorganics were invented for the stillborn Sentinels series,
and you can only see them in action if you get the tape from Streamline.
- Neil Nadelman Doc...@delphi.com
Emery Calame
(Haro-chan) writes:
>In article <3tafau$7...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>Emery Calame <eme...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Kamjin had a whole, small fleet of Salan and commanded from a
>>Magdomilla. It was modified(with an extended forward hull) and
painted
I'm just describing what I saw. And check it out...Kamjin's ship has a
longer looking prow than the other Magdomilla's. I'm talking about the
frontal ship here. So if it wasn't modified was it just badly drawn?
Did the Macross animators work with more than one set of reference
models?
>Kamjin's Quaedol Magdomilla flagship is no different from any of the
>others in that particular class. They all have a orbital module and a
>detachable planetary descent module (unless it was lost in battle).
>
Yeah, I know this.
>>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
>Kamjin's ship was never red. Neither his first flagship nor his
>subsequent cannon ship/gunboat was ever near the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 on
The Gunboat looks red to me. At least reddish.
the
>Moon.
>
>>killed the Macross's crew though.
>
>The Macross crew were not killed in the final episode; we would not
have
>seen Misa with Hikaru otherwise.
Most of the crew was what my script said.
>> In DYRL(the Movie) Bodolza was informed that his main reflex
cannon
>
>It was not called a reflex cannon.
It was in MY fan sub.
>> The Zentraedi weapons factory was captured and towed to Earth on
the
>>advice of Britai who reasoned that it was a threat to peace in the
area
>>and should be brought under Micron/Earth Zentraedi control or
>>destroyed.
>> It looked like a vaguely rectangular green and tan blob with five
or
>>six smaller green and tan blobs connected to it via huge soda-straw
>>like pylons.
>
>The reason that was given in the dialogue was that the UN Forces
wanted
>it for its long-range buildup. It was not planning to destroy it. It
was
>mottled purplish red.
Nope. It was definitely on the tan side. Well maybe more of a brown...
Well, we will never be able agree on the color schemes. I'm not color
blind either...so I guess we just interpret color very differently.
Also I will have to beat up the guy who wrote my scripts. Thanks for
clearing this up...unless I talk to yet more people who say you are
completely wrong in which case I'll say :P.
Em
Emery Calame
Nandy) writes:
>
>In article <3tafau$7...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> eme...@ix.netcom.com
(Emery Calame ) writes:
>
had a stroke or something. :
V
> Ahh... When I was younger I thought he had rammed with a Nupetiet
>Vernitzes... Funny, I don't recall it being red!
Eagn Loo says that Kamjin was in a Zentraedi gunboat...apparently
Siembieda never worried about it.
>>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
>
> The SDF-1 was called the "MegaRoad"? (Don't recall hearing that name
in
>Macross before!)
SDF-2 was Megaroad.
SDF-1 Is called...are you ready for this? Macross.
> Right, but in DYRL it seems like ALL the Salami-Sandwich class ships
had
>bustaaa' beams of their own... of course it's hard to gauge the
relative
>powers of busta'-beams (heh heh.. well, THIS one destroys everything,
>hmmm... so does this one!) I'd be suprised if it offsetted the much
larger
>size of the fortress complex.
Oh...don't worry..Bodolza's beam made an utterly hellish mockery of the
usual Zentraedi " Buster beam "....you don't know what destruction is
until you've seen this damn beam...Of course it's not Buster Machine 1
and 2, and it's not a Solnoid "Solar System Destroyer" ship but still.
> Heh heh... You think he would have told them to break off, eh?
Bodolza? Naaah, probably not.
> Regardless, the Maetrandi also had an eye-stump fortress? I sorta
>remember it looking different.
Yeah, it did...like a Christmas tree. Bodolza's looked like a boomerang
with a cactus on top.
>[Factory Satellite]
>> I believe it was still running at a somewhat reduced capacity. In
>
> Ought to have been a big stockpile of weapons around it then!Totally
>autonomous?
>
Egan Loo says that the UN Spacy wanted them for production of weapons,
ships etc. I don't know about it myself. My script doesn't agree with
his...but then this is anime. Actually Egan Loo may know Japanese
really well, so he might be completely and utterly right via first hand
understanding. I don't know if it was totally auto-mated or not.
Siembieda says it was in its Robotech incarnation...Egan Loo?
>>Mac II the Zentraedi vessels seen were mostly repaired and refittted
>>ships captured in the first conflict(as seen in DYRL) and in the
>
> I see... Including the Macross-Cannons that look like they have
>twin NV ships for their 'rail-guns'.
The Macross cannons are way too small to have welded-on Nupetiet
flagships for reflex guns. They are smaller than the original Macross.
>
>>invasions were easily beaten back by the Minmei attack.
>
> Hrump... Hrumph... BLAH HA HA HA HA!
>
>> It looked like a vaguely rectangular green and tan blob with five
or
>>six smaller green and tan blobs connected to it via huge soda-straw
>>like pylons.
Egan Loo says it was red...me I'm going with a tan/brown, but....
> YEP. Sounds like hallmark Zentraedi tech to me!
>
>
> I see... interesting.
> The also seemed to be the only Invid mecha with long range weapons,
the
>regular scouts just seem to fly around and rip the hell out of
whatever they
>find..
>
>>Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
>
> These are the things that look like near-human sized vaguely
>veritech-shaped armors?
Uh...yeah I guess so. They had a shield and a cannon? They appeared in
and around the Hives. They were the really small man sized ones.
>>Pincer Command Unit: Gamo
>
> Cannot remember ever seeing these... Were they sort of like the
scout
>troopers in shape?
Yeah,,, great big Shock Trooper with Triple Barrled, phone-receiver
shaped cannons.( Well, they are bent forward anyway)
>>Royal Command battloid: Gosu
>
> Again, can't remember this... I'm guessing it's a variant of the
Gamo?
Nope...these are the mecha that the human-looking Invid piloted.
They had a cannon on one arm and a bunch of Macross style missles in
the back.
>>The Invid Carrier : Shell-Dor
>
> Heh heh heh... Shell-Door, eh? I getcha.
Some folks say sher-doa....
Talk to Egan Loo about this stuff. Help him with his home page...he
seems better informed on Macross issues than anyone else. I'm assuming
he's actually got this info and isn't just playing with my poor, old,
tired mind.
Em
Peter L. Ward
>From: pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
>Subject: Re: [Macross] Questions about the Original (was: Valkyrie Nicknames)
>In article <3tafau$7...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> eme...@ix.netcom.com (Emery Calame ) writes:
>>Kamjin had a whole, small fleet of Salan and commanded from a
>>Magdomilla. It was modified(with an extended forward hull) and painted
> Ahh... When I was younger I thought he had rammed with a Nupetiet
>Vernitzes... Funny, I don't recall it being red!
>>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
> The SDF-1 was called the "MegaRoad"? (Don't recall hearing that name in
>Macross before!)
Funny you should mention that...Macross almost got titled "MegaRoad."
Eventually, the name did turn up in Macross, or more rather, Flashback 2012.
This was the name of the vessel that Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay take off in
(well, Misa and Minmay at least...Hikaru was in a VF-4 :-)
>> In DYRL(the Movie) Bodolza was informed that his main reflex cannon
>>had ebough power for only one shot. That one shot blew the utter HELL
> Right, but in DYRL it seems like ALL the Salami-Sandwich class ships had
>bustaaa' beams of their own... of course it's hard to gauge the relative
>powers of busta'-beams (heh heh.. well, THIS one destroys everything,
>hmmm... so does this one!) I'd be suprised if it offsetted the much larger
>size of the fortress complex.
I guess the only way to gauge them is how flashy they are when fired? :-)
>>out of the Meltrandi fleet, including their eye fortress and took out
>>those of his own ships which were engaged said poor unfortunate
>>Meltrandi bastards.
> Heh heh... You think he would have told them to break off, eh?
> Regardless, the Maetrandi also had an eye-stump fortress? I sorta remember
>it looking different.
Hmmm..don't remember that one in the series...
>[Factory Satellite]
>> I believe it was still running at a somewhat reduced capacity. In
> Ought to have been a big stockpile of weapons around it then! Totally
>autonomous?
I believe that it was autonomous (i.e. self-running), and it was primarily for
battlepod manufacture. At least the captured satellite was making them in an
episode near the very end.
>>Mac II the Zentraedi vessels seen were mostly repaired and refittted
>>ships captured in the first conflict(as seen in DYRL) and in the
> I see... Including the Macross-Cannons that look like they have twin NV
>ships for their 'rail-guns'.
Wouldn't that be quad? I remember 2 on the shoulders and one for each "arm."
>>invasions were easily beaten back by the Minmei attack.
> Hrump... Hrumph... BLAH HA HA HA HA!
>> It looked like a vaguely rectangular green and tan blob with five or
>>six smaller green and tan blobs connected to it via huge soda-straw
>>like pylons.
> YEP. Sounds like hallmark Zentraedi tech to me!
>> Siembieda called the cannonless Shock Troopers "Troopers". They
>>weren't really scouts, more like workers.
> I see... interesting.
> The also seemed to be the only Invid mecha with long range weapons, the
>regular scouts just seem to fly around and rip the hell out of whatever they
>find..
Doesn't sound too harmful until you run into a swarm of them...
>>Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
> These are the things that look like near-human sized vaguely
>veritech-shaped armors?
Yup. I did like these designs as a form of power-armor...
>>Pincer Command Unit: Gamo
> Cannot remember ever seeing these... Were they sort of like the scout
>troopers in shape?
Not really. They tended to resemble horseshoes with legs. Funny looking, but
nasty as hell.
>>Royal Command battloid: Gosu
> Again, can't remember this... I'm guessing it's a variant of the Gamo?
Nope. These are the ones that Corg and Sera (Robotech names, I know...) flew
around in. Also very nasty.
>>The Invid Carrier : Shell-Dor
> Heh heh heh... Shell-Door, eh? I getcha.
>>> Nah! There's got to be some anime-fans out there with a sense of humor!?
>> They might need three or four senses of humor to dealwith this.
> Oh well, they'll evolve someday.
I dunno...I think falling head-first onto a hardwood floor as a baby, as well
as sticking my fingers twice in an electrical outlet a few years later
contributed to my sense of humor (among other things...).
>>Pink Floyd was on the SDF-1 rather than Minmei"?
>> Well, the crew of the Macross would've had extremely dilated pupils
> Heh heh heh..... I can just imagine them teaming up to raise havok and
>anarchy throughout the universe!
>>Actually, there was civil war between the Zentraedi...Can you say
>>Britai vs. Bodolza?
> Er... wasn't that a bit more like a mass-desertion?
Ummm...started as a mass desertion, but Boldoza decided to eliminate Britai's
forces as well as the micronians.
>--
> /| ________________ |pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | Lord of the Flies
>O|===|* >________________> |http://sunset.bph.jhu.edu| 1st MPC Division
> \| | /Myops.home.html | Colony Mechworks
> Velox - Durus - Infestus | na...@fos.stsci.edu | Colony World Myops
Prabal Nandy
>Eagn Loo says that Kamjin was in a Zentraedi gunboat...apparently
>Siembieda never worried about it.
Hmm... which class of ship is "Gundboat"? The Salan-Class? Or the
Battleship-class? To me, it really looked like a Nupetiet Flagship-style
ship.
>Oh...don't worry..Bodolza's beam made an utterly hellish mockery of the
>usual Zentraedi " Buster beam "....you don't know what destruction is
>until you've seen this damn beam...Of course it's not Buster Machine 1
Heh heh heh... I saw it... Yawn! I'm just not impressed with
Wave-Motion-Reflex-Busta' beams from hell anymore!
Anyone wonder why Bodolza was physically connected to his ship?
>The Macross cannons are way too small to have welded-on Nupetiet
>flagships for reflex guns. They are smaller than the original Macross.
That's what I would have thought. But the DP9 blueprints for the MacII
RPG show a Macross Cannon ship and it _definately_ has two Flagships for
guns... Of course, it's entirely possible that they made some sort of
Mini-Nupiteit ship... or it was an error.
>>>Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
>Uh...yeah I guess so. They had a shield and a cannon? They appeared in
>and around the Hives. They were the really small man sized ones.
I suppose they were the equivalent or supposed to fight the "Cyclones" eh?
[Pincer Mech]
>Yeah,,, great big Shock Trooper with Triple Barrled, phone-receiver
>shaped cannons.( Well, they are bent forward anyway)
I see... Long claws?
>>>Royal Command battloid: Gosu
> Nope...these are the mecha that the human-looking Invid piloted.
>They had a cannon on one arm and a bunch of Macross style missles in
>the back.
Hmmm... REALLY can't remember these.
BTW, do they ever show what non-human looking Invid soldiers look like?
>> Heh heh heh... Shell-Door, eh? I getcha.
> Some folks say sher-doa....
I've also seen it called "Quitrilla Mollusca" which I kinda like!!
Emery Calame
writes:
>
>In article <3tefp4$3...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
(Prabal Nandy) writes:
>>From: pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
>>Subject: Re: [Macross] Questions about the Original (was: Valkyrie
Nicknames)
>>Date: 5 Jul 1995 12:48:36 -0400
>
>
>> Heh heh... You think he would have told them to break off, eh?
>> Regardless, the Maetrandi also had an eye-stump fortress? I sorta
remember
>>it looking different.
Falcon said :
>Hmmm..don't remember that one in the series...
It wasn't in the series. Just the Movie " DYRL." In the series
version of events the Meltrandi were just a subset of the Zentraedi
forces attacking Earth.
In the series Bodolza's fortress was shaped like a big rock
formation...it wasn't like the " eye fortresses" from the movie and
MacII.
I said...long ago :
>>>Mac II the Zentraedi vessels seen were mostly repaired and refittted
>>>ships captured in the first conflict(as seen in DYRL) and in the
>
>> I see... Including the Macross-Cannons that look like they have
twin NV
>>ships for their 'rail-guns'.
>
>Wouldn't that be quad? I remember 2 on the shoulders and one for each
"arm."
Yep...but they were a lot smaller than the Macross .. maybe 2/3 as big.
Nowhere near the size of a Nupetiet Vernitzes...
>>>Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
>
>> These are the things that look like near-human sized vaguely
>>veritech-shaped armors?
>
>Yup. I did like these designs as a form of power-armor...
Hive Guards are good and crunchy if you bake em just right.
>>>Pincer Command Unit: Gamo
>
>> Cannot remember ever seeing these... Were they sort of like the
scout
>>troopers in shape?
I think they resembled a huge "Gurab(Grub?) with laser cannon" a lot
more than horse shoes...but hey, what do I know? The cannons did look
like a horseshoeI guess....
>Not really. They tended to resemble horseshoes with legs. Funny
looking, but
>nasty as hell.
>
>>>Royal Command battloid: Gosu
>
>> Again, can't remember this... I'm guessing it's a variant of the
Gamo?
>
>Nope. These are the ones that Corg and Sera (Robotech names, I
know...) flew
>around in. Also very nasty.
>
>>>The Invid Carrier : Shell-Dor
>
>> Heh heh heh... Shell-Door, eh? I getcha.
>
>>>> Nah! There's got to be some anime-fans out there with a sense of
humor!?
>>> They might need three or four senses of humor to dealwith this.
>
>> Oh well, they'll evolve someday.
>
>I dunno...I think falling head-first onto a hardwood floor as a baby,
as well
>as sticking my fingers twice in an electrical outlet a few years later
>contributed to my sense of humor (among other things...).
>
>
Yeah...when I was a kid I fell out of the second story hay-chuck door
of my Grandmother's barn. Another time I ate a bunch of Mulberries with
some kind of insecticide on them....Maybe that's why I sometimes get
life confused with Akazukin Cha-Cha.
Em
Emery Calame
Nandy) writes:
>
>In article <3tf8rj$h...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> eme...@ix.netcom.com
(Emery Calame ) writes:
>
> Hmm... which class of ship is "Gundboat"? The Salan-Class? Or the
>Battleship-class? To me, it really looked like a Nupetiet
Flagship-style
>ship.
Nope. To me it looked like a hastily hybridized ship made out of
parts. It was an unseen configuration anyway. Are you sure that it
wasn't red? Sigh...that's really bugging me. Maybe I've had a stroke or
something.
Anyway, if you want a look at it dig around on the Macross web
pages...there's a good ink drawing of it in there somewhere in gif
format. Egan Loo? Can you help him out here?
> Anyone wonder why Bodolza was physically connected to his ship?
So far everybody who had a Movie-style eye-fortress has been
tube-plugged in...Probably it has something to do with getting
Interstellar Assault Insurance. :)
>>The Macross cannons are way too small to have welded-on Nupetiet
>>flagships for reflex guns. They are smaller than the original
Macross.
>
> That's what I would have thought. But the DP9 blueprints for the
MacII
No it doesn't. They are more angular than Nupetiet Vernitzes and
while they are similar, they aren't the same thing. What's more, those
same "blue prints" have a size comparison chart, and if you look at
that you'll see that the sizes of a Macross Cannon and A Nupetiet
Vernitzes aren't even remotely close. Heck...it's smaller than a Salan
Scout.
>RPG show a Macross Cannon ship and it _definately_ has two Flagships
for
>guns... Of course, it's entirely possible that they made some sort of
>Mini-Nupiteit ship... or it was an error.
Whoops...sorry about the bad editing here...
>>>>Enforcer: Hive Guards, or Protector Invid
>>Uh...yeah I guess so. They had a shield and a cannon? They appeared
in
>>and around the Hives. They were the really small man sized ones.
>
> I suppose they were the equivalent or supposed to fight the
"Cyclones" eh?
>
>[Pincer Mech]
>>Yeah,,, great big Shock Trooper with Triple Barrled, phone-receiver
>>shaped cannons.( Well, they are bent forward anyway)
>
> I see... Long claws?
That's the one! Well, they weren't that long, but they were
skinnier and more needle like.
>>>>Royal Command battloid: Gosu
>> Nope...these are the mecha that the human-looking Invid piloted.
>>They had a cannon on one arm and a bunch of Macross style missles in
>>the back.
>
> Hmmm... REALLY can't remember these.
> BTW, do they ever show what non-human looking Invid soldiers look
like?
Don't know. I haven't got all that many episodes. I think I saw a
baby invid being lowered into a " Gurab with Laser Cannons " shell. It
was a snail-headed, embrionic, quasi-humanoid critter in a foetal
position with an egg shaped transluscent membraane around it. The armor
was full of a nice, viscous gel or liquid. I'm not even gonna try to
discuss what color it was as I'm not sure anymore... Probably the
snail-headed critters in the Siembieda/Macek material are an
extrapolation of that.
>>> Heh heh heh... Shell-Door, eh? I getcha.
>> Some folks say sher-doa....
>
> I've also seen it called "Quitrilla Mollusca" which I kinda like!!
Oh dear...now you've got me started...
" Battle Clams! Zeta Fight! Monster Bang!" a wonderful OAV you MUST
see:
Kan-sho...there are enemy uh..." Battle Clams " coming out of that
nebula?
Battle Clams Tai-i?
Yes sir...making a bee-line straight for us....they're launching a
whole bunch of these little tiny " crab fighters " or something sir....
Sigh...I didn't sign up with the navy to defend civilization from
futuristic sea-food. I don't suppose there's a three-faced, glowing,
bald woman leading them ? Give's me hives just thinking about it.
Geez sir! And I thought the CLANS were kind of a stupid idea...
Oh well.... Launch our robots that turn into airplanes and call me if
they start winning.....I'm gonna take a little nap.
Uh...Kan-sho? Should you be sleeping at a time like this?
What's your reflex point Tai-i ? Get it? Hah! Hah! Ha! (Looks
around...no one is laughing...everyone just looks confused and
irritated.... He shrugs and starts to leave the bridge. )
Uh...er... Nothing Kan-sho Tyler! Nothing! Sleep tight sir!(salutes...)
Em,
Deputy Lord of the Anoles...I've been demoted. *sigh*
Prabal Nandy
> Nope. To me it looked like a hastily hybridized ship made out of
>parts. It was an unseen configuration anyway. Are you sure that it
>wasn't red? Sigh...that's really bugging me. Maybe I've had a stroke or
Really, it didn't look red to me! Think of all the paint it would need!
>pages...there's a good ink drawing of it in there somewhere in gif
>format. Egan Loo? Can you help him out here?
I'd really appreciate it!
> So far everybody who had a Movie-style eye-fortress has been
>tube-plugged in...Probably it has something to do with getting
Maybe they all have kidney trouble?
> No it doesn't. They are more angular than Nupetiet Vernitzes and
>while they are similar, they aren't the same thing. What's more, those
>same "blue prints" have a size comparison chart, and if you look at
>that you'll see that the sizes of a Macross Cannon and A Nupetiet
>Vernitzes aren't even remotely close. Heck...it's smaller than a Salan
>Scout.
That would make sense.
I don't have the sourcebook, I was going by what the few pictures I saw
looked like. Phew... I was aghast when I first thought of how humungous the
Mac-Cannons would have to be!
> Don't know. I haven't got all that many episodes. I think I saw a
>baby invid being lowered into a " Gurab with Laser Cannons " shell. It
>was a snail-headed, embrionic, quasi-humanoid critter in a foetal
>position with an egg shaped transluscent membraane around it. The armor
I remember this episode, though I really couldn't see what was inside the
membrane.
Regardless, someone told me that this was actually one of the character's
hallucination and therefore wasn't necessarily canon... so I have no idea if
that's true or not... Anyone else know?
>" Battle Clams! Zeta Fight! Monster Bang!" a wonderful OAV you MUST see:
Ayeeeeee!
>Kan-sho...there are enemy uh..." Battle Clams " coming out of that nebula?
>Yes sir...making a bee-line straight for us....they're launching a
>whole bunch of these little tiny " crab fighters " or something sir....
>bald woman leading them ? Give's me hives just thinking about it.
Bee-line?
Hives?
Ghaaah! Abhorred puns! Avast! Away!
>Oh well.... Launch our robots that turn into airplanes and call me if
>they start winning.....I'm gonna take a little nap.
Blah ha ha ha ha!
I wonder what he'd think of the VF-19K, eh?
>What's your reflex point Tai-i ? Get it? Hah! Hah! Ha! (Looks
Argh! This man is worse than me. Surprising!
>Uh...er... Nothing Kan-sho Tyler! Nothing! Sleep tight sir!(salutes...)
Heh heh heh... I'd pay to see this one!
Ross Bench
>In article <3tafau$7...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> eme...@ix.netcom.com (Emery Calame
>) writes:
>>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
Emery, you are wrong about the name of the SDF-2, the SDF-1 was known as
Megaroad not theSDF-2..
> The SDF-1 was called the "MegaRoad"? (Don't recall hearing that name in
>Macross before!)
Prabal,
Yes, the SDF-1 was called the Megarodo (MegaRoad)...
Now here's the question;
What was the name of the SDF-2 from Flashback 2012 ??
:) :)
>> In DYRL(the Movie) Bodolza was informed that his main reflex cannon
>>had ebough power for only one shot. That one shot blew the utter HELL
If I remember correctly, the term "Reflex" comes from Robotech..
I believe they were called Phaser X cannons in Macross...
Ross Bench
>>>red in the episode where he attacked the Macross and the SDF-2
>>>Megaroad. Ny the way,he didn't blow them up. He crippled them, and
>>
>> The SDF-1 was called the "MegaRoad"? (Don't recall hearing that name
>in
>>Macross before!)
>SDF-2 was Megaroad.
>SDF-1 Is called...are you ready for this? Macross.
Preproduction to the original Macross series, the SDF-1 was called the
"Megarodo" (megaroad) and this name was dropped in favor of "Macross".
In the video "Flashback 2012" we see the SDF-2 for the first time and it's
name was "Megalord" not "Megaroad"...
I have the VF-4 model from "Flashback 2012" and the decal set says;
"VF-4 101 SDF-2 MEGALORD"
Haro-chan
>In article <benchr.146...@teleport.com>,
>Ross Bench <ben...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>Yes, the SDF-1 was called the Megarodo (MegaRoad)...
>
>BZZZZT. I'm sorry, but the SDF-2 was indeed the MegaRoad. The SDF-1 was
>the Macross. It says so in "Macross Perfect Memory."
In Macross Perfect Memory, the SDF-2 was called "Megalord." However, I
consider print material to be less canonical than video material if
it is available -- in this case, the Flash Back 2012 video (which does use
the "Megaroad" spelling).
Ross Bench was referring to the fact that Studio Nue had given the series
(and the title ship) that would become Macross the initial name "Megaro-do."