Otaku World Order possible re-opening
Rishard Chapoteau
disclose the address once its up and running. Its not the fastest thing in
the world, but it should do for now.
I have been chatting with Richard Mazzara and this is what we are thinking.
1. We will have up 1 or 2 T-1 episodes, and a few 56k episodes (since they
fit easier).
2. We will rotate them once a week or so.
3. We will be putting the episodes that are out of rotation on a cd which
will be encoded at a higer framerate. Currently the framerate is 120 kb
with 15 frames a second. I am thinking of going 300 kb (or higher) with 30
frames a second. Also I might make them 640 x 480 as opposed to 320 x 240
so you will really be getting your moneys worth by getting the cd's. This
can help pay for a better site again.
4. We might get more space by using multiple geocities accounts and
things of that nature.
If you can think of some good ideas please feel free to let me know.
Rishard
Rishard Chapoteau
geocities
xoom
freeyellow
tripod
All of them offer about 11 megs of space each. Are there other ones?
Rishard Chapoteau <rchap...@rici.com> wrote in message
news:76tfdf$dva$1...@usenet45.supernews.com...
Crass Panama
allow CGI. Try FreeSpace? I tried to get a webpage there, but I got all
confused.
Crass Panama
Rishard Chapoteau wrote in message <76tkqi$gjs$1...@usenet45.supernews.com>...
Jonathan Powell
> That's probably about the worst idea I've ever heard of.
>Distributing episodes for free over the web is one thing, but selling
>CDs with episodes on them is much worse. Expect to get in a lot of
>trouble from companies if you do intend to do this.
Try listening to more things then. (kidding) He won't get into any
trouble because he'd be distributing material that isn't commercially
available in America. Yes, FUNimation, CN, and Viz have the rights
to Dragonball here, but do they hunt down the legit fansubbers or
distributors? IMO, it's a legal grey area.
Jon
(the definitive Jon)
http://students.washington.edu/ejonp/index.html
Chris McDougall
<rchap...@rici.com> wrote:
>3. We will be putting the episodes that are out of rotation on a cd which
>will be encoded at a higer framerate. Currently the framerate is 120 kb
>with 15 frames a second. I am thinking of going 300 kb (or higher) with 30
>frames a second. Also I might make them 640 x 480 as opposed to 320 x 240
>so you will really be getting your moneys worth by getting the cd's. This
>can help pay for a better site again.
That's probably about the worst idea I've ever heard of.
Distributing episodes for free over the web is one thing, but selling
CDs with episodes on them is much worse. Expect to get in a lot of
trouble from companies if you do intend to do this.
Chris
Look behind you! A three-headed monkey!"
No. It's Planet Gaea- http://gaea.tierranet.com
sErIaL-kIlLeR
Rishard Chapoteau
need them for is to stick 10 meg files on. Thanx for the info.
Rishard
Crass Panama <crass_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:76u2sk$ba$1...@news.xmission.com...
> Fortunecity popped into my head before I remembered that they don't
>allow CGI. Try FreeSpace? I tried to get a webpage there, but I got all
>confused.
>
>Crass Panama
>
>Rishard Chapoteau wrote in message <76tkqi$gjs$1...@usenet45.supernews.com>...
>>OK for free space sites I have
>>
>>geocities
>>xoom
>>freeyellow
>>tripod
>>
>>All of them offer about 11 megs of space each. Are there other ones?
>>
>>
>>Rishard Chapoteau <rchap...@rici.com> wrote in message
>>news:76tfdf$dva$1...@usenet45.supernews.com...
>>>I just remembered I have like 70 - 80 megs on another server. I will
>>>disclose the address once its up and running. Its not the fastest thing
>in
>>>the world, but it should do for now.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have been chatting with Richard Mazzara and this is what we are
>thinking.
>>>
>>>1. We will have up 1 or 2 T-1 episodes, and a few 56k episodes (since
>they
>>>fit easier).
>>>
>>>2. We will rotate them once a week or so.
>>>
>>>3. We will be putting the episodes that are out of rotation on a cd
which
>>>will be encoded at a higer framerate. Currently the framerate is 120 kb
>>>with 15 frames a second. I am thinking of going 300 kb (or higher) with
>30
>>>frames a second. Also I might make them 640 x 480 as opposed to 320 x
240
>>>so you will really be getting your moneys worth by getting the cd's.
This
>>>can help pay for a better site again.
>>>
Rishard Chapoteau
richard mazzara
Fansubbers "modify" copyrighted material, and sell it. Most of the time they
are not making a "Huge" profit. and so its considered "ok"
Putting these "modified" fansubs into Real Video Format, is a TASK, its
something that has to have work put in to it to make it worth it, there is
time that has to go in to writing the cd.
The bottom line is fansubbers SUBTITLE anime, and sell it...why shouldn't
someone change the format from vhs to cd? the way I see it, the people who
encode the video into real video format do as much work if not more than
fansubbers. So if we want to talk about illegal, lets take those fansubs
everyone has on their shelf down and burn them all and put those horrrible
simply HORRIBLE fansubbers in jail for violating the laws. (ok enough
sarcasm)
Imho , it helps fansubbers to put this video on cd, and it helps cartoon
network, and all the people involved here in the us with dragon ball z! It
is not a vhs copy...it is not a super high digital quality copy! these are
real video files. they are not VCD's (which play in dvd players that OTHER
people sell) they are not Digitally remastered fansubs (Like other subbers
release) and they are definately NOT raw cartoon network, stolen video's.
The video's are 3rd generation, if not higher. Some of then have lines going
through them, They are a FANS collection of dragon ball z preserved on CD.
The cartoon networks episodes that are sold on the market are digitally
edited and sold on vhs, (these files are not a reproduction of those) they
are made with high quality copying machines from a master tape. If you want
to watch Dragon Ball Z on your tv, I suggest you buy that! but if you would
like to see what dragon ball is about, and get a SAMPLE (sample in being
that there is video and audio loss in real video files) that is what these
fan real video files are about.
Fansubbers take time and money to create fan subs, and someone might say,
well you're taking money out of their pockets. Well, we are making real
videos out of fansubbed tapes. if you want high quality, go buy fansubed
tapes. if you want a real video file, and don't care about the quality,
don't care about the audio, and just want to know what happened in your
favorite cartoon then that is what these cd's and these files people put up
on their web pages is about....
Feel free to continue this conversation and email me if you like,
Jonathan Powell wrote in message <76uoad$16l0$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>...
>Chris McDougall wrote in message <3692db46...@news.jps.net>...
>> That's probably about the worst idea I've ever heard of.
>>Distributing episodes for free over the web is one thing, but selling
>>CDs with episodes on them is much worse. Expect to get in a lot of
>>trouble from companies if you do intend to do this.
>
>
Jonathan Powell
>Feel free to continue this conversation and email me if you like,
Of course. I like fansubs despite the legality issues. IMO, fansubs
should allow people to see subtitled material that they otherwise
wouldn't be able to see, but limited to that. Neon Genesis Evangelion
for example, is available in the US in dub and sub form, so I buy the
commercial releases, except for the alternate ending, which will *not*
be sold in US stores.
Any real fan who's picked up some fansubs should be grateful to all of
the people who worked to make them. But despite a lack of profit, it's
still wrong to distribute material that is commercially available in the US
(probably Canada too. . .)
I like the real video CD idea. But I imagine that the process of fansubbing
itself is a lot more difficult than encoding (not to diminish that). I've
heard that it takes about an hour of work for every minute of video,
considering translating, timing the subtitles, editing, and so forth. . .
Crass Panama
Crass Panama
Rishard Chapoteau wrote in message <7700os$b1n$1...@usenet43.supernews.com>...
Des Bromilow
>
> OK for free space sites I have
>
> geocities
> xoom
> freeyellow
> tripod
>
> All of them offer about 11 megs of space each. Are there other ones?
I'd seriously look at http://www.royaltystudios.com/freeweb/level1.html
These guys were offering 50Mb per account late last year (plus an
additional 10 Mb if you signed before a certain date. The accounts are
free but I haven't actually opened one of my own, so i can't tell you
how good it is.
Anyway I hope this helps.
Des
Stjepan Pejic
> I believe it is a legal grey area as well.
> Fansubbers "modify" copyrighted material, and sell it. Most of the time they
> are not making a "Huge" profit. and so its considered "ok"
It is not considered "ok" - it is only that the companies who
created the work either don't know about the fansub or that they
do not think the fansubber has enough money to pay for a civil
case.
> Putting these "modified" fansubs into Real Video Format, is a TASK, its
> something that has to have work put in to it to make it worth it, there is
> time that has to go in to writing the cd.
The amount of effort has absolutly nothing to do with the legality
of the issue. For example, it takes a great deal of effort to make
a telephone listing, but because it is not copyrightable anyone can
make a copy of it and do what they want to with it.
> The bottom line is fansubbers SUBTITLE anime, and sell it...why shouldn't
> someone change the format from vhs to cd?
They are both illegal, but the second is more likely to get into
trouble if it is a higher-profile operation (like distributing
through the internet on an easily located web page).
> Imho , it helps fansubbers to put this video on cd, and it helps cartoon
> network, and all the people involved here in the us with dragon ball z!
It is not your position to say what is good for the Cartoon network
or the producers of Dragonball. Such companies could have stuck
the thing on the shelf and never shown it to anyone (and this often
happens in Hollywood) - you do not have a right to see it.
> It
> is not a vhs copy...it is not a super high digital quality copy!
This may make it less likely that the company will sue, but it
does not make it legal.
Stjepan Pejic
Jonathan Powell
<36984f71...@207.126.101.101>...
>I think someone has mentioned before that if a certain title is not
>being distributed in the US by the owner or a licensed dealer, the
>owner cannot sue othe people for distributing it.
>
>I am not a lawyer so someone knowledgeable in this please comment on
>whether this is true or not.
>
>Kay-Yut
No, it's still illegal and probably can incur a lawsuit, but fansubbing is
generally ignored by the corporations, who have passed on releasing
the material.
Kay-Yut Chen - remove ABC in email to reply
wrote:
>richard mazzara wrote:
>> I believe it is a legal grey area as well.
>> Fansubbers "modify" copyrighted material, and sell it. Most of the time they
>> are not making a "Huge" profit. and so its considered "ok"
>
>It is not considered "ok" - it is only that the companies who
>created the work either don't know about the fansub or that they
>do not think the fansubber has enough money to pay for a civil
>case.
>
I think someone has mentioned before that if a certain title is not
Erky-chan
<rchap...@rici.com> wrote:
>I don't need them for cgi. All the design willl stay on my site. All I
>need them for is to stick 10 meg files on. Thanx for the info.
Just remember that many of these sites get very niggly if you use
their sites for "warez housing". I think FurtuneCity states as part
of their ToS that any files accessed from their site must be accessed
directly.
Remove ".junkjunk" to reply
---
"And news just to hand, Bill Gates' mansion has been destroyed and all its occupants
killed in an explosion that leveled the entire suburb. The cause has been traced to
routine maintenance in which Windows 98 was accidentaly installed on the central
computers instead of Linux."
richard mazzara
Stjepan Pejic wrote in message <36950A...@yahoo.com>...
>richard mazzara wrote:
>> I believe it is a legal grey area as well.
>> Fansubbers "modify" copyrighted material, and sell it. Most of the time
they
>> are not making a "Huge" profit. and so its considered "ok"
>
>It is not considered "ok" - it is only that the companies who
>created the work either don't know about the fansub or that they
>do not think the fansubber has enough money to pay for a civil
>case.
the quotes means I'm not saying it, that is the feeling I get. hearing there
is a convention in ny at a church to distribute fansubs...jeez, a CHURCH!
>
>> Putting these "modified" fansubs into Real Video Format, is a TASK, its
>> something that has to have work put in to it to make it worth it, there
is
>> time that has to go in to writing the cd.
>
>The amount of effort has absolutly nothing to do with the legality
>of the issue. For example, it takes a great deal of effort to make
>a telephone listing, but because it is not copyrightable anyone can
>make a copy of it and do what they want to with it.
The point I was making is, fansubbers put time in...and so do encoders...
I am not saying that encoders are the only ones out there doing this.
>
>> The bottom line is fansubbers SUBTITLE anime, and sell it...why shouldn't
>> someone change the format from vhs to cd?
>
>They are both illegal, but the second is more likely to get into
>trouble if it is a higher-profile operation (like distributing
>through the internet on an easily located web page).
Yes they are both illegal, and other people have put fansubs on the net,
capsulecorps is one of them and believe me there are more!
btw, the internet (www) (and I'm not saying the internet is all www!) and
newsgroups are NOT inmho (and that means IN *MY* HUMBLE OPINION!!) high
profile in comparision to news papers, tv ads, catalogs etc.
>
>> Imho , it helps fansubbers to put this video on cd, and it helps cartoon
>> network, and all the people involved here in the us with dragon ball z!
>
>It is not your position to say what is good for the Cartoon network
>or the producers of Dragonball. Such companies could have stuck
>the thing on the shelf and never shown it to anyone (and this often
>happens in Hollywood) - you do not have a right to see it.
>
No it is NOT...but it is my opinion please respect that...
>> It
>> is not a vhs copy...it is not a super high digital quality copy!
>
>This may make it less likely that the company will sue, but it
>does not make it legal.
Well then that is a good thing for fansubbers and people who distribute
electronic version of such media.
Rich Mazzara
>
>Stjepan Pejic
Tazer
Excuse me for wakin' up, but on Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:06:26 -0800
>richard mazzara wrote in message <77082q$g54$1...@remarQ.com>...
>>Feel free to continue this conversation and email me if you like,
>
>
>Of course. I like fansubs despite the legality issues. IMO, fansubs
>should allow people to see subtitled material that they otherwise
>wouldn't be able to see, but limited to that. Neon Genesis Evangelion
>for example, is available in the US in dub and sub form, so I buy the
>commercial releases, except for the alternate ending, which will *not*
>be sold in US stores.
is that the official word? will we be forsaken for the "direct
market" ?
please...say it aint so!!!!!
Tazer
"Never trust anything that bleeds for 4 days and doesnt die." -Spider Jerusalem
Jonathan Powell
>"And news just to hand, Bill Gates' mansion has been destroyed and all >its
occupants killed in an explosion that leveled the entire suburb. The >cause
has been traced to routine maintenance in which Windows 98 was >accidentaly
installed on the central computers instead of Linux."
Lies! All lies! It'd take a *nuke* to wipe out his house. The huge thing
covers a hillside for acres. That entire area is a bunch of rolling hills
covered in nice trees. No conventional weapon or freak accident could level
it.
On second thought, that means Kenny G has died too, hmmmmmm.
Is it worth it?
Jonathan Powell
> is that the official word? will we be forsaken for the "direct
> market" ?
>
> please...say it aint so!!!!!
Sorry, but I got that straight from ADV. Those fools passed on the alt.
ending. I got a really great e-mail from one of the guys there, and he
explained exactly what the 4 movies are, and the bad news. But hey,
I can just get the fansubs for 1/4 of the price! I already found distros
that carry both tapes, and have ordered 1 so far. Kick @s$!!!
jiml...@earthlink.net
<ej...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Tazer wrote in message <3698820...@news.escape.com>...
>> is that the official word? will we be forsaken for the "direct
>> market" ?
>>
>> please...say it aint so!!!!!
>
>
> Sorry, but I got that straight from ADV. Those fools passed on the alt.
> ending. I got a really great e-mail from one of the guys there, and he
> explained exactly what the 4 movies are, and the bad news. But hey,
> I can just get the fansubs for 1/4 of the price! I already found distros
> that carry both tapes, and have ordered 1 so far. Kick @s$!!!
ADV passed on the rights, but that doesn't mean that the movies and
redone episodes will never be released commercially in the US. There are
other anime companies.
Although Gainax will have to come down in their asking price before any
comapany could afford to license the movies and redone eps (ADV is
usually biggest spender, so if they can't afford it the others will have
a hard time).
It will probably be at least two years or more before there will be a
chance for the Eva movies and redone eps to show up commercially in the
US. Eventually Gainax will want some money from the US and reduce their
price.
-=-
Jim Lazar
E-Mail - mailto:jiml...@earthlink.net
Home - http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlazar
FanFiction - http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlazar/anime
-=-
Jonathan Powell
<778q22$od$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>ADV passed on the rights, but that doesn't mean that the movies and
>redone episodes will never be released commercially in the US. There >are
other anime companies.
>. . .
So basically, it's possible that the movies will be released, but we have no
guarentees. Even if they are released someday, I think I'll pass. I bet I
can get some pretty good fansubs. I have before.
Keeper of the Sea
just holding on to it, without any plans for release yet... anyone have any more
info?
-Keeper of the Sea
Anthony Woo
considering all the other kick ass stuff they bought...
BGC TV,
Those Who Hunt Elves,
_ALL_ of City Hunter,
Dirty Pair OAV,
Adventures of Kotesu,
Sakura Wars,
and
Nadia: Secret of Blue Water
I'd imagine they're a little bit busy, esp considering that Nadesico's a
TV series and is _much_ longer than most of the others which are mainly
OAV's
AJ
Chris McDougall
<ej...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>So basically, it's possible that the movies will be released, but we have no
>guarentees. Even if they are released someday, I think I'll pass. I bet I
>can get some pretty good fansubs. I have before.
>
>Jon
>(the definitive Jon)
>http://students.washington.edu/ejonp/index.html
>
>
And that is exactly why the price on tapes and stuff is so
high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
Jonathan Powell
> And that is exactly why the price on tapes and stuff is so
>high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
>replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
>more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
>we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
Considering that most people have absolutely no idea what a fansub
is, I'd say the real problem is both the reluctancy of corporations, and
the cost of the Eva rights, which are supposed to be so huge. They
have to make a profit somehow, so they just charge more. . .
Jonathan Powell
>You might want to try webjump they allow 25mb space :)
>their address is www.webjump.com
>
>NiCe
Webjump is a total scam, IMO. Those jerks actually restrict how much data
people can download. You can't download more than one single meg from a
webjump page! What's the point!?
Anthony Woo
>
>
> And that is exactly why the price on tapes and stuff is so
> high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
> replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
> more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
> we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
>
for 2 eps subbed) but considering the cost of the rights to it, not
inconceivable. And these days (except for ADV) the prices aren't too
bad anyway ($20-$30 for 4 eps is a pretty good deal) however, the
problem of _quality_ and _distribution_ remains. I'd buy fansubs and
keep them over the "real thing" because
1) the fansubbers often do a better job (comparing subs: The second
Tenchi movie, the second Ranma TV series, Tenchi OAV, and Tenchi TV)
2) finding the "real thing" is often more trouble than getting the
fansub (I _still_ haven't found anyplace that has the El Hazard subs,
the entire Tenchi TV series dub or sub, any of Maison Ikkoku sub, or
anything beyond the first volumes of Escaflowne or SMJ)
3) in some cases there's no garunttee that the "real thing" will ever
exist (case in point: the Eva movies--the rights for them are so
expensive that few, if any, U.S. company _has_ the cash to buy them;
Marmalade Boy, Blue Green Years, Brother Dear Brother, and Hana Yori
Dango)
4) there's no garuntee that the "real thing" will be any good. (ex:
Sailor Moon, Nausicaa dub (not the Disney release), BGC dub, Ranma dub,
or El Hazard OAV dub)
It's not really the price that makes us not want to buy the "real thing"
it's fact that the "real thing" is tough to find and is sometimes not
worth the tape it was recorded on.
AJ
NiCe
their address is www.webjump.com
NiCe
Rishard Chapoteau wrote in message <76tfdf$dva$1...@usenet45.supernews.com>...
Chris McDougall
wrote:
> Chris McDougall wrote:
> >
> >
> > And that is exactly why the price on tapes and stuff is so
> > high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
> > replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
> > more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
> > we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
> >
> Define "high" Admittedly, the price of Eva was horrendously high ($30
> for 2 eps subbed) but considering the cost of the rights to it, not
> inconceivable. And these days (except for ADV) the prices aren't too
> bad anyway ($20-$30 for 4 eps is a pretty good deal) however, the
> problem of _quality_ and _distribution_ remains. I'd buy fansubs and
> keep them over the "real thing" because
My definition of high is based on the price difference between
a
typical fansub and a typical commercial tape. A typical fansub, if
someone wants to actually buy one(there are much better ways to get
fansubs without buying), at most has gone for 15 dollars a tape. The
typical low price on a commercial tape(not even guaranteeing it's a
sub)
is around 20 bucks. That right there is a 5 dollar difference. And
that's when a fansub is at a really expensive price(usually they can
be
bought for less than 8 dollars a tape).
> 1) the fansubbers often do a better job (comparing subs: The second
> Tenchi movie, the second Ranma TV series, Tenchi OAV, and Tenchi TV)
I'm not sure about often doing a better job. Subbing is not as
hard as
people think it is(especially with various easier ways to sub such as
wavetable timing). It's just putting the dedication, time, work, and
money into it(subbers usually sub off their own LDs which they bought
with their own money). If the commercial company knows what they're
doing then the subbing should come out good. Good examples of great
commercial subbing are BGC(which did have a horrible dub) by my
favorite
commercial subber(next to anime village) AnimEigo. And I've seen
absolutely wretched fansubs(the HECTO sub of Escaflowne).
> 2) finding the "real thing" is often more trouble than getting the
> fansub (I _still_ haven't found anyplace that has the El Hazard subs,
> the entire Tenchi TV series dub or sub, any of Maison Ikkoku sub, or
> anything beyond the first volumes of Escaflowne or SMJ)
Well uhhh getting Escaflowne and SMJ is as easy as ordering
from Anime
Village, which is churning out volumes like wildfire. I've never seen
a
company put out volumes of a series so fast.
> 3) in some cases there's no garunttee that the "real thing" will ever
> exist (case in point: the Eva movies--the rights for them are so
> expensive that few, if any, U.S. company _has_ the cash to buy them;
> Marmalade Boy, Blue Green Years, Brother Dear Brother, and Hana Yori
> Dango)
The whole point was keeping a fansub if a commercial sub was
available.
Of course it's ok to keep a sub if no company has picked it up.
> 4) there's no garuntee that the "real thing" will be any good. (ex:
> Sailor Moon, Nausicaa dub (not the Disney release), BGC dub, Ranma dub,
> or El Hazard OAV dub)
But those are dubs. Many people see this part of fansubs as a
gray area. Sometimes if there's no commercially available 'sub' then a
fansub
is considered fair game to some subbers. Most of the time a commercial
sub is good. I rarely see horrible timing and use of text
colors(unlike
quite a few fansubs I have).
>
> It's not really the price that makes us not want to buy the "real thing"
> it's fact that the "real thing" is tough to find and is sometimes not
> worth the tape it was recorded on.
>
> AJ
I was really just arguing that price is a big factor in why
people buy
fansubs. And I still think it is the main factor, although you did
bring
up a lot of side factors. However I still think that money is what
governs people's decisions on this most of all. "Why buy a 30 dollar
commercial sub with 3 episodes when I can get 4 episodes on a 6 dollar
fansub?"
Damien Roc
> Chris McDougall wrote:
> >
> >
> > And that is exactly why the price on tapes and stuff is so
> > high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
> > replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
> > more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
> > we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
> >
> Define "high" Admittedly, the price of Eva was horrendously high ($30
> for 2 eps subbed) but considering the cost of the rights to it, not
> inconceivable. And these days (except for ADV) the prices aren't too
> bad anyway ($20-$30 for 4 eps is a pretty good deal) however, the
> problem of _quality_ and _distribution_ remains. I'd buy fansubs and
> keep them over the "real thing" because
> 1) the fansubbers often do a better job (comparing subs: The second
> Tenchi movie, the second Ranma TV series, Tenchi OAV, and Tenchi TV)
<shrug> You don't have to watch the real thing... but it's a good idea (an
obligation, according to a fansubber I've talked to) to buy the domestic
release when it comes out.
No one ever said you had to destroy your fansub.
> 2) finding the "real thing" is often more trouble than getting the
> fansub (I _still_ haven't found anyplace that has the El Hazard subs,
> the entire Tenchi TV series dub or sub, any of Maison Ikkoku sub, or
> anything beyond the first volumes of Escaflowne or SMJ)
This is surprising... This is especially surprising regarding Esca and SMJ,
considering they're currently being released ONLY by an online company. (or
have you not checked out AnimeVillage.com?)
> 3) in some cases there's no garunttee that the "real thing" will ever
> exist (case in point: the Eva movies--the rights for them are so
> expensive that few, if any, U.S. company _has_ the cash to buy them;
> Marmalade Boy, Blue Green Years, Brother Dear Brother, and Hana Yori
> Dango)
If this is the case, then you're not getting the fansub over the real thing.
It's not really an issue. You've just got to remember to pick up the real
thing when it comes out.
> 4) there's no garuntee that the "real thing" will be any good. (ex:
> Sailor Moon, Nausicaa dub (not the Disney release), BGC dub, Ranma dub,
> or El Hazard OAV dub)
If you insist on buying dubs, you probably wouldn't have the fansub in the
first place.
> It's not really the price that makes us not want to buy the "real thing"
> it's fact that the "real thing" is tough to find and is sometimes not
> worth the tape it was recorded on.
Understand that you're not paying for the quality: you're paying for the
intellectual property contained on the tape, i.e. the anime itself. If you
can't be bothered to pay for that by getting the domestic release if you
have the fansub (even if you aren't going to watch the domestic release)
then you're not really supporting the creators, are you?
All told, your four points don't hold much water. They really sound like
whiney, half-assed excuses from someone who doesn't want to pay for his
anime. I could be wrong, but that's how they sound.
> AJ
Damien Roc
a Mike Stackpole Fan since 1992
Umi's Champion
Nuriko's Honor Guard
"You know, Joker, in some ways I think you were right. I do
spend too much time obsessing over Batman. But even so - I
don't think about him half as much as you do. I saw that
tonight, and I decided it's time for us both to be free...
"Batman is dead. I killed him for you. All gone. No more.
No Dark Knight. No more need to scheme... Bye-bye."
"You - you killed him? Batman? My Batman? You KILLED BATMAN?
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
-Catwoman and The Joker, Catwoman #65
Avatar
>
> I just HAVE to throw in my two cents here...
>
> In article <369b1577...@news.jps.net>,
> tr...@jps.net (Chris McDougall) wrote:
>
> > My definition of high is based on the price difference between
> > a
> > typical fansub and a typical commercial tape. A typical fansub, if
> > someone wants to actually buy one(there are much better ways to get
> > fansubs without buying), at most has gone for 15 dollars a tape. The
> > typical low price on a commercial tape(not even guaranteeing it's a
> > sub)
> > is around 20 bucks. That right there is a 5 dollar difference. And
> > that's when a fansub is at a really expensive price(usually they can
> > be
> > bought for less than 8 dollars a tape).
>
> that's bothering me. AnimeVillage is operated by Bandai, who originally
> owned Escaflowne, Gundam, etc. They didn't have to buy the rights for those
> two at all (not sure about the others). They aren't selling them in stores,
> so that means they get ALL the money (presumably) from the tapes they sell
> via AnimeVillage. Granted, they've been having a lot of problems with
> distribution, and that's undoubtedly cost them some big bucks..but they're
> STILL getting all of that.
AV, though, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bandai, who holds the
license for Escaflowne and Gundam. Thus, they just have to pay
-themselves- for the rights, essentially.
> If they aren't going to sell in stores, the least
> they can do is lower their prices a little more. $24...yeah...not too
> bad...EXCEPT that you also have the outrageous $6 (or was it $6.50?) shipping
> and handling charge. HELLO! They barely even packed my Escaflowne tape!
> Sheesh...
Really? I had no complaints with AV's shipping... they arrived in
excellent condition.
> Sorry. Ahem, getting off track. Anyway...for companies that don't
> have to buy the rights, i.e. Bandai, I see no reason why they have to charge
> $24-$29 for tapes. I mean, hell, Escaflowne is a great series, IMHO. They
> should sell it at stores and I can't figure out why they don't.
They're starting; there's been other threads on this. I guess the whole
Internet-only thing was just to generate some capital to get the
operation running; not a bad idea IMHO, although I'll wager a few local
shopkeeps are less than thrilled.
> (Never seen
> the others). I was told by an anime store that AnimeVillage/Bandai are
> banking on the fact that buying via the 'Net will be HUGE someday and that's
> the ONLY way they want to sell.
>
> Personally, I think it's insulting to pay upwards of $30 for a tape with
> about 1 and a half hours of animation on it...you can go get other things
> that cost TWICE as much or more to make (like Disney programs) for far less.
Economies of scale, man. The average Disney tape sells in the millions,
whereas Esca will be in the thousands for a while yet... the guy that
packs the tapes costs a lot more per tape when there's 1/1000 as many
tapes sold. Same with the advertising. Same with the office clerk that
handles the order. Et cetera, et cetera.
> Not that I'd want to give up my Escaflowne tapes, however. ;) Don't get me
> wrong, I just think that the anime industry here in the US could have a LOT
> more interested buyers if they lowered prices to reasonable, affordable sums.
<shrug> It doesn't do any good to lower your prices unless the lowering
leads to increased profits; i.e. the lower price has to attract enough
customers to make up for the lost profits. (Even equal profits really
isn't good enough, because you're still working harder to produce the
extra product. If you could make fifty thousand a year making five
watches or making ten watches, which one would you pick?)
> (I bought some of the Escaflowne tapes to replace my fansubbed ones, just to
> note. I do not, however, as of yet, have more money to spend on
> that...unfortunately)
Same here; and you have to admit that a $150 box set as good as anything
on the market save the Slayers and Tylor boxes, neh? ;p
Avatar
--
"Why do you not let me contemplate in peace?"
"'Cause I'm the GOD OF DESTRUCTION, that's why!"
-Kushinada and Susano Orbatos, "Orion", Shirow
equ...@mailexcite.com
In article <369b1577...@news.jps.net>,
tr...@jps.net (Chris McDougall) wrote:
> My definition of high is based on the price difference between
> a
> typical fansub and a typical commercial tape. A typical fansub, if
> someone wants to actually buy one(there are much better ways to get
> fansubs without buying), at most has gone for 15 dollars a tape. The
> typical low price on a commercial tape(not even guaranteeing it's a
> sub)
> is around 20 bucks. That right there is a 5 dollar difference. And
> that's when a fansub is at a really expensive price(usually they can
> be
> bought for less than 8 dollars a tape).
This is a very good point. And the others are, too. BUT! There's something
that's bothering me. AnimeVillage is operated by Bandai, who originally
owned Escaflowne, Gundam, etc. They didn't have to buy the rights for those
two at all (not sure about the others). They aren't selling them in stores,
so that means they get ALL the money (presumably) from the tapes they sell
via AnimeVillage. Granted, they've been having a lot of problems with
distribution, and that's undoubtedly cost them some big bucks..but they're
STILL getting all of that. If they aren't going to sell in stores, the least
they can do is lower their prices a little more. $24...yeah...not too
bad...EXCEPT that you also have the outrageous $6 (or was it $6.50?) shipping
and handling charge. HELLO! They barely even packed my Escaflowne tape!
Sheesh... Sorry. Ahem, getting off track. Anyway...for companies that don't
have to buy the rights, i.e. Bandai, I see no reason why they have to charge
$24-$29 for tapes. I mean, hell, Escaflowne is a great series, IMHO. They
should sell it at stores and I can't figure out why they don't. (Never seen
the others). I was told by an anime store that AnimeVillage/Bandai are
banking on the fact that buying via the 'Net will be HUGE someday and that's
the ONLY way they want to sell.
Personally, I think it's insulting to pay upwards of $30 for a tape with
about 1 and a half hours of animation on it...you can go get other things
that cost TWICE as much or more to make (like Disney programs) for far less.
Not that I'd want to give up my Escaflowne tapes, however. ;) Don't get me
wrong, I just think that the anime industry here in the US could have a LOT
more interested buyers if they lowered prices to reasonable, affordable sums.
(I bought some of the Escaflowne tapes to replace my fansubbed ones, just to
note. I do not, however, as of yet, have more money to spend on
that...unfortunately)
V. Equinox
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tazer
Excuse me for wakin' up, but on Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:25:06 GMT
>On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:40:58 -0800, "Jonathan Powell"
><ej...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>>So basically, it's possible that the movies will be released, but we have no
>>guarentees. Even if they are released someday, I think I'll pass. I bet I
>>can get some pretty good fansubs. I have before.
>
> And that is exactly why the price on tapes and stuff is so
>high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
>replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
>more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
>we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
ppl cant support companies on titles that arent out here yet.
anyways, the thought that fansubs cut into a company's profits is
such a *crock*! the f-s cummunity has been around for years, and
the amount of titles AND companies has grown. the impact that
f-s's have on their profits is SOO small, its not even worth it to
mention it.
Tazer
"Ewwww...I hope that was a candy bar that floated by...." -Freakazoid
valv...@ctcreuna.cl
and you haven't got to be worried about the watremark
and the pops-ups of GeoCities!!!
www.angelfire.com
Des Bromilow wrote <369439...@usa.net>...
Troy Needoba
> > about 1 and a half hours of animation on it...you can go get other things
> > that cost TWICE as much or more to make (like Disney programs) for far less.
Although, 1 1/2 hours of animemation on an anime tape is a lot(not
counting movies and they even have less quite often). Paying $30 a tape
is the same as Eva(I think) and they only have an hour of animation. So
I wouldn't complain too much.
--
Troy <tnee...@home.com>
Visit my anime webpage! Send me comments and suggestions.
http://members.home.net/otakuanime/index.htm
oto...@my-dejanews.com
tr...@jps.net (Chris McDougall) wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:40:58 -0800, "Jonathan Powell"
> <ej...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
> >So basically, it's possible that the movies will be released, but we have no
> >guarentees. Even if they are released someday, I think I'll pass. I bet I
> >can get some pretty good fansubs. I have before.
The idea that one day a title 'may' be released in the US is no reason to
hinder the efforts of those who are trying to commercially (yes its sometimes
a dirty word) bring those titles to the US. My personal favorite example, the
Kimagure Orange Road tv series. There were good fansubbs out years ago, but
that didnt stop people for bugging companies to bring it to the US properly.
I'm proud to say that after years of pleading and whining, Animeigo got the
rights to the show and now sitting in my living room, for all to see is the
first 6 LD or the show. As fans we have to be sure that our desire to get our
paws on new titles doesn't blind us to the fact that these snipets of joy are
someone's property. We have no right to copy and resell, even in the name of
fandom, it's still stealing. If you really care about anime in the US, start
emailing and calling the various companies that are already working to bring
more to the US, you would be suprised at how receptive they can be to begging
and pleading for certain titles. They wont know what you want unless you ask
them.
just my opinion
off to watch some more KOR (I figured out the price on the LD per episode to
be 8.30$ a bit expensive but worth it)
Bram
Jonathan Powell wrote:
> Tazer wrote in message <3698820...@news.escape.com>...
> > is that the official word? will we be forsaken for the "direct
> > market" ?
> >
> > please...say it aint so!!!!!
>
> Sorry, but I got that straight from ADV. Those fools passed on the alt.
> ending. I got a really great e-mail from one of the guys there, and he
> explained exactly what the 4 movies are, and the bad news. But hey,
> I can just get the fansubs for 1/4 of the price! I already found distros
> that carry both tapes, and have ordered 1 so far. Kick @s$!!!
Fansub is a "sampler" of what titles should be promoted to be released in
US. It's not a subtitute for cheap anime, so please buy the import LDs and
find the script somewhere on the net. As the matter of fact, The End of
Evangelion LD box set is one of the biggest, yet most beautiful box ever.
You won't regret buying it.
Have a nice day,
Bram
br...@ou.edu
Chris McDougall
>equ...@mailexcite.com wrote:
>> This is a very good point. And the others are, too. BUT! There's something
>> that's bothering me. AnimeVillage is operated by Bandai, who originally
>> owned Escaflowne, Gundam, etc. They didn't have to buy the rights for those
>> two at all (not sure about the others). They aren't selling them in stores,
>> so that means they get ALL the money (presumably) from the tapes they sell
>> via AnimeVillage. Granted, they've been having a lot of problems with
>> distribution, and that's undoubtedly cost them some big bucks..but they're
>> STILL getting all of that.
>
>AV, though, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bandai, who holds the
>license for Escaflowne and Gundam. Thus, they just have to pay
>-themselves- for the rights, essentially.
Just to clear things up a little bit thanks to Egan Loo
posting awhile ago to the Escaflowne ML, Bandai and Sunrise are
essentially are owned by the same people, but are considered two
different companies and therefore two different entities. The
*original* owners of Escaflowne are Sunrise and TV Tokyo. Bandai
bought the license from the two companies(perhaps to prepare for Anime
Village?). So Bandai(Anime Village) does buy the licenses like any
other company.
Zelgadis
>
>On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:40:58 -0800, "Jonathan Powell"
><ej...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>>So basically, it's possible that the movies will be released, but we have no
>>guarentees. Even if they are released someday, I think I'll pass. I bet I
>>can get some pretty good fansubs. I have before.
>>
>high. ^^ The vicious circle that is "I'll keep the fansubs as a
>replacement for the actual thing." If people did support the companies
>more then maybe they'd make a better revenue, prices will go down, and
>we'd get tapes brought to the US much faster.
Still, while I don't have any fansubs yet, I'm thinking about getting a
relatively cheap genlock (used for overlaying subtitles), and importing some of
the movies from Japan as a replacement for the ones "modified" by large
companies here. Some examples would be the Slayers movie from ADV, and I just
read that the new Kimba TV series was, shall I say, reduced.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/kimba.html
I realise that the price of tapes in Japan is killer, and it won't be easy
to find a distributor, and yes, there IS no such thing as an inexpensive
genlock, but still, I can't sit idly by and have little "creative editings" put
on my favorite shows.
--
********************** THE OTAKU'S PSALM **********************
Anime is my obsession; I shall not go out.
I lieth down before the video screen and player: I watcheth
episode after episode with intensity and fervor.
Anime restoreth my soul: it leadeth me in the search of
laserdiscs for my obsession's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of
dubs, I will fear no Trish Ledoux: for subtitles art with me;
Takahashi and Fujishima comfort me.
Fellow otaku preparest a fansub for me outside the presence of
copyright lawyers: thou anointest my ears with Nihongo; my sake
cup runneth over.
Surely lonliness and blurred vision shall follow me all the
days of my life: and I will dwell in front of the screen forever.
-Unknown Author
*****************************************************************
Crass Panama
you get it from? It's so true for me! (Is that good or bad?)
Crass Panama
Zelgadis wrote in message ...
equ...@mailexcite.com
Avatar <ak...@pdq.net> did quoth:
<snip my ramblings>
> Really? I had no complaints with AV's shipping... they arrived in
> excellent condition.
I was, in my own mind, comparing them to, say, Vengeance of Excalibur
(http://www.voe.com), that packs things to the MAX. I was really impressed
with how they packed (okay, okay, maybe I have nothing better to do than
compare packing styles. :P )
> They're starting; there's been other threads on this. I guess the whole
> Internet-only thing was just to generate some capital to get the
> operation running; not a bad idea IMHO, although I'll wager a few local
> shopkeeps are less than thrilled.
Like the one near me. It's just so much easier to return damaged merchandise
to a store than to mailorder places. IMHO, that is.
> Economies of scale, man. The average Disney tape sells in the millions,
> whereas Esca will be in the thousands for a while yet... the guy that
> packs the tapes costs a lot more per tape when there's 1/1000 as many
> tapes sold. Same with the advertising. Same with the office clerk that
> handles the order. Et cetera, et cetera.
I think with a little proper marketing, it could do well. Granted, they
don't have the scale of money that Disney has, but I doubt they're hurting. I
don't get the Sci-Fi channel here, but with a good dub (*cough*), I don't see
why Escaflowne couldn't air there. A lot of things go by word of mouth - Look
at Ranma. I've never seen any ads on TV or major magazines for it but it's a
favorite.
> <shrug> It doesn't do any good to lower your prices unless the lowering
> leads to increased profits; i.e. the lower price has to attract enough
> customers to make up for the lost profits. (Even equal profits really
> isn't good enough, because you're still working harder to produce the
> extra product. If you could make fifty thousand a year making five
> watches or making ten watches, which one would you pick?)
Ummm....no, don't tell me, now... ;) The average 'kid' walking along a shelf
of new videos at his local Sam Goody might overlook the $29 El Hazard (could
be wrong on that price, don't quite me) video, where he otherwise might have
picked it up. "Hey, check out this chick on the cover! This might be cool,
man!" ...as opposed to the other $15 videos around. *big shrug* I am not,
however, a marketer, so I have no idea. ;)
> Same here; and you have to admit that a $150 box set as good as anything
> on the market save the Slayers and Tylor boxes, neh? ;p
Heh...I generally just watch anime at the anime club we have at my campus. I
don't own a lot..but...in case you couldn't tell, I'm a biiiig Escaflowne fan.
;)
V. Equinox
equ...@mailexcite.com
tr...@jps.net (Chris McDougall) quothed thusly:
> Just to clear things up a little bit thanks to Egan Loo
> posting awhile ago to the Escaflowne ML, Bandai and Sunrise are
> essentially are owned by the same people, but are considered two
> different companies and therefore two different entities. The
> *original* owners of Escaflowne are Sunrise and TV Tokyo. Bandai
> bought the license from the two companies(perhaps to prepare for Anime
> Village?). So Bandai(Anime Village) does buy the licenses like any
> other company.
Really? What a...peculiar way of doing things. I noticed the Bandai/Emotion
lable on my fansubs, so I just assumed they owned it from the start.
...OK, maybe I -shouldn't- have skipped marketing and development. ;)
Zelgadis
>
> I REALLY like that sig! I know it says unknown author, but where did
>you get it from? It's so true for me! (Is that good or bad?)
>
Ah, I wish I knew. I think I got it off of some anime FTP server about 4 years
ago. (at least according to the file date.)