[PRONOUNCE] Inoue, Tomoe, etc.
Paul Cordeiro
names that (at least when romanized) end in "-oe" or "-oue"? In
particular, I'm having difficulty with Inoue (as in Kikuko Inoue) and
Tomoe (as in Professer Tomoe/Hotaru Tomoe from BSSMS). Is it pronounced
"Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
Thanks in advance.
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -_^ PAUL CORDEIRO, self-appointed diehard anime fan. ^_- |
| ^o^ 16 and sittin' strong! ^o^ |
| *_* ---------- *_* |
| Quote o' the week: |
| "My cake is d'oh!" --Signor Gremio Simpson |
| Fight o' the week: |
| Konatsu (R1/2) vs Komatsu (KOR) |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Chris Mattern
: Here's a question that's bugged me for a long time: how do you pronounce
: particular, I'm having difficulty with Inoue (as in Kikuko Inoue) and
: Tomoe (as in Professer Tomoe/Hotaru Tomoe from BSSMS). Is it pronounced
: "Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
: Thanks in advance.
"Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh". There's no such thing as a "silent letter"
in Japanese. If it's there, it's supposed to be pronounced.
Chris Mattern
Kagato
: Here's a question that's bugged me for a long time: how do you pronounce
: names that (at least when romanized) end in "-oe" or "-oue"? In
: particular, I'm having difficulty with Inoue (as in Kikuko Inoue) and
: Tomoe (as in Professer Tomoe/Hotaru Tomoe from BSSMS). Is it pronounced
: "Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
"Inoue" (literally, "ino" + "ue", meaning "on top of a [water] well")
has four syllables: [long] e - no - [long] u - [short] e. Long & short
of course meaning "ee" and "eh", etc. as English phonetics go. Japanese
syllables all get even-metered beats in pronunciation, save where
a doubled vowel indicates a double-length sound (such as "oo" or "ou"),
a doubled consonant indicated a short pause (kite vs. kitte, for example)
OR in the case of sibilant phonemes the sound is held (hassen, etc.)
The special case consonant "n" also gets held (donna) but if not doubled
the "n" sound is not completed (don't touch your tongue to the roof of
your mouth.) Oh, and don't forget the suppressed vowel rule: an "i" or
"u" that follows a consonant gets suppressed, but leave just enough of
its sound to hint at what it is. (Think of "arimasu" where the "u" is
barely heard.)
Of course Japanese, having the number of homonyms is does, is rather
easy to botch from Roomaji alone. (Which is why they use kanji. :)
"Inoue" may look like "inoo eh", but the kanji are read "i(no)" and "ue"
(Nelson nos. 165 and 798). The (no) is normally an okurigana extension
of the Japanese reading, "i", but kanji for names tend to include such
extensions into themselves. Fun, eh? ^^
("Tomoe" btw is "tomo eh". A single kanji (Nels. #263) that I think
refers to a family crest that looks like three commas drawn radially
in a circle. I'd have to check on this.)
--Crow
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher S. Rider -- "The Old Crow" -- http://www.mcs.com/~syzygy/
God's in his Heaven. All's right with the world.
------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
Theodore Hua
Paul Cordeiro <shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>Here's a question that's bugged me for a long time: how do you pronounce
>names that (at least when romanized) end in "-oe" or "-oue"? In
>particular, I'm having difficulty with Inoue (as in Kikuko Inoue) and
>Tomoe (as in Professer Tomoe/Hotaru Tomoe from BSSMS). Is it pronounced
>"Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
For "-oe", it's pronounced "o-eh", while "-oue" will be
pronounced "o-u-eh".
Theo
Ryo-oh-ki
Enrique Conty <co...@rtsg.mot.com> wrote:
:In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960319...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Paul Cordeiro <shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> writes:
:>
:>Is it pronounced "Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
:
:The latter.
"Inoue" should be pronounced as "i-no-u-e" (i.e. it's not a long 'o').
___/^_^\___ Eugene Lee Ryo-oh-ki Muyo! Tenchi
zan...@netcom.com The Memory of Trees
Ryo-oh-ki
:Paul Cordeiro (shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca) wrote:
:: Here's a question that's bugged me for a long time: how do you pronounce
:: names that (at least when romanized) end in "-oe" or "-oue"? In
:: particular, I'm having difficulty with Inoue (as in Kikuko Inoue) and
:
:has four syllables: [long] e - no - [long] u - [short] e. Long & short
"i" like machine.
"o" like cold.
"u" like flute.
"e" like wet.
:of course meaning "ee" and "eh", etc. as English phonetics go. Japanese
:syllables all get even-metered beats in pronunciation, save where
:a doubled vowel indicates a double-length sound (such as "oo" or "ou"),
:a doubled consonant indicated a short pause (kite vs. kitte, for example)
:OR in the case of sibilant phonemes the sound is held (hassen, etc.)
:The special case consonant "n" also gets held (donna) but if not doubled
:the "n" sound is not completed (don't touch your tongue to the roof of
:your mouth.) Oh, and don't forget the suppressed vowel rule: an "i" or
:"u" that follows a consonant gets suppressed, but leave just enough of
:its sound to hint at what it is. (Think of "arimasu" where the "u" is
:barely heard.)
This last part may also vary with certain dialects.
: Of course Japanese, having the number of homonyms is does, is rather
:easy to botch from Roomaji alone. (Which is why they use kanji. :)
To think that some people wanted to wean Japan away from kanji...
Perish the thought!
: "Inoue" may look like "inoo eh", but the kanji are read "i(no)" and "ue"
:(Nelson nos. 165 and 798). The (no) is normally an okurigana extension
:of the Japanese reading, "i", but kanji for names tend to include such
:extensions into themselves. Fun, eh? ^^
There are whole books dedicated to this particular subject. ^_^
I've seen occasional uses of the apostrophe to try and seperate
phonemes in ambiguous romanizations, but this is not common, nor
standard.
: ("Tomoe" btw is "tomo eh". A single kanji (Nels. #263) that I think
:refers to a family crest that looks like three commas drawn radially
:in a circle. I'd have to check on this.)
Glad I *heard* the name before I *saw* it!
Enrique Conty
>
The latter.
--
Enrique Conty | co...@cig.mot.com | http://www.mcs.net/~conty
NuVista+ Mac genlock/video capture board for sale. | Wargame stuff for sale.
Anime Central, the first anime convention of the Midwest, coming in 1998!
We're looking for a few good fans, e-mail doca...@mcs.com!
Paul Cordeiro
On 19 Mar 1996, Kagato wrote:
> "Inoue" (literally, "ino" + "ue", meaning "on top of a [water] well")
> has four syllables: [long] e - no - [long] u - [short] e.
[...]
> "Inoue" may look like "inoo eh", but the kanji are read "i(no)" and "ue"
> (Nelson nos. 165 and 798). The (no) is normally an okurigana extension
> of the Japanese reading, "i", but kanji for names tend to include such
> extensions into themselves. Fun, eh? ^^
Gomen, I had a little difficulty following you. So it would be pronounced
"ino" + "ue", which would kind of sound like "Inoo eh"?
> ("Tomoe" btw is "tomo eh". A single kanji (Nels. #263) that I think
> refers to a family crest that looks like three commas drawn radially
> in a circle. I'd have to check on this.)
Okay, now *this* I understand! ^_^;
Ryo-oh-ki
:On 19 Mar 1996, Kagato wrote:
:
:> "Inoue" (literally, "ino" + "ue", meaning "on top of a [water] well")
:> has four syllables: [long] e - no - [long] u - [short] e.
:[...]
:> "Inoue" may look like "inoo eh", but the kanji are read "i(no)" and "ue"
:> (Nelson nos. 165 and 798). The (no) is normally an okurigana extension
:> of the Japanese reading, "i", but kanji for names tend to include such
:> extensions into themselves. Fun, eh? ^^
:
:Gomen, I had a little difficulty following you. So it would be pronounced
:"ino" + "ue", which would kind of sound like "Inoo eh"?
No, it would be pronounced "ee-know-uu-eh". Each phoneme receives
an equal beat. And since "no" and "u" are not part of the same
kanji, they should not be treated as such.
___/-_-\___ Eugene Lee Ryo-oh-ki Muyo! Tenchi
Paul Cordeiro
> "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh". There's no such thing as a "silent letter"
> in Japanese. If it's there, it's supposed to be pronounced.
Since I have never seen the kana for "Inoue" and "Tomoe" (I not going to
even attempt kanji at my stage), I was unsure. After all, "Youmex" is
apparently pronounced "YUUMEKUSU" when I previously thought it was
pronounced "YOUMEKUSU".
Angst-sensei
>>
>>Is it pronounced "Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
>
>The latter.
*ahem*
A-Inoue, a-Inoue, a-Inoue, a-Inoue,
A-Inoue, a-Inoue, a-Inoue, a-Inoue,
In the jungle, the mighty jungle,
The Lion sleeps tonight;
In the jungle, the quiet jungle,
The Lion sleeps toniiiiiiight....!
--Angst-sensei
(Sorry. ^_^)
--
/-\ ** Jeff Williamson *** Lightfall Integrated Media *** Chicago, IL ** /-\
|A| E-mail: doca...@mcs.com *@_@* Anime Central Recruitment Coordinator |9|
|C| *==> "In every revolution, there is one man with a vision." <==* |8|
\-/ * =If you're Friends with Key, well, then, you're friends with me= * \-/
Paul Cordeiro
Subject: Re: [PRONOUNCE] Inoue, Tomoe, etc.
Organization: Software Alberta Society, Edmonton, Canada
[This is crossposted to rec.arts.anime.misc.]
On 19 Mar 1996, Kagato wrote:
> "Inoue" (literally, "ino" + "ue", meaning "on top of a [water] well")
> has four syllables: [long] e - no - [long] u - [short] e.
[...]
> "Inoue" may look like "inoo eh", but the kanji are read "i(no)" and "ue"
> (Nelson nos. 165 and 798). The (no) is normally an okurigana extension
> of the Japanese reading, "i", but kanji for names tend to include such
> extensions into themselves. Fun, eh? ^^
Gomen, I had a little difficulty following you. So it would be pronounced
"ino" + "ue", which would kind of sound like "Inoo eh"?
> ("Tomoe" btw is "tomo eh". A single kanji (Nels. #263) that I think
> refers to a family crest that looks like three commas drawn radially
> in a circle. I'd have to check on this.)
Okay, now *this* I understand! ^_^;
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -_^ PAUL CORDEIRO, self-appointed diehard anime fan. ^_- |
| ^o^ 16 and sittin' strong! ^o^ |
| *_* ---------- *_* |
| Quote o' the week: |
| "My cake is d'oh!" --Signor Gremio Simpson |
| Fight o' the week: |
| Konatsu (R1/2) vs Komatsu (KOR) |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
--
|Fidonet: Paul Cordeiro 1:343/1304
|Internet: Paul.C...@kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6023 Everett WA
Jonathan M. Obien
In article
<Pine.A32.3.91.960320...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>On 19 Mar 1996, Chris Mattern wrote:
>
>> "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh". There's no such thing as a "silent letter"
>> in Japanese. If it's there, it's supposed to be pronounced.
>
>Since I have never seen the kana for "Inoue" and "Tomoe" (I not going to
>even attempt kanji at my stage), I was unsure.
This is the kanji for "Inoue" (ascii rendition):
| | |
__|____|__ |
| | |____
__|____|__ |
| | |
/ | |
/ | ______|______
("ino") ("ueh")
I can write the kanji for "Tomoe" on paper but I'm not even going to
attempt to render the kanji for "tomo" in ascii. :P
*************************************************************************
___________ * * ____________
/____ ___/ * Jonathan M. Obien * |____ ____|
____| |____ * jmo...@hal.physics.wayne.edu * | |
/____ ___/ * Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu * ____| |____
/ . \ * * |____ ____|
/ / \ \ . * "Beneath my skin, there lies * | |
__/ / \ \_/! * my savage heart, and it is * ____| |____
/___/ \__/ * where I draw my power." * |____________|
* - Ushio to Tora *
*************************************************************************
Donny Chan
CM>Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
CM>Subject: Re: [PRONOUNCE] Inoue, Tomoe, etc.
CM>Date: 20 Mar 1996 04:46:02 GMT
CM>Organization: Motorola
CM>In article
CM><Pine.A32.3.91.960319...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Paul
CM>Cordeiro <shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> writes:
>
>Is it pronounced "Inoh" and "Tomoh" or "Inoh-eh" and "Tomo-eh"?
CM>The latter.
Not quite. It's "yi-noh-ooh-eh" for Inoue (i no ue). Likewise, Kouda
Mariko's "Kouda" is "koh-ooh-da", not "koh-da" (when writing in
romaji, careful writers often use a ' to prevent this kind of
confusion of whether an "u" is independent or sticks to the syllable
before it). When written in kanji, the "no" in Inoue disappears. In
comparison, Kasuga Kyousuke's "Kyousuke" is "kyoh-su-keh".
Don "Gamera" Chan
---
* DeLuxe2 1.21 #6922 * "I pray, pray to bring near the New Day." - Gundam II
David Goldsmith
<Pine.A32.3.91.960319...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>,
Paul Cordeiro <shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> Here's a question that's bugged me for a long time: how do you pronounce
> names that (at least when romanized) end in "-oe" or "-oue"? In
> particular, I'm having difficulty with Inoue (as in Kikuko Inoue) and
>
The latter.
--
David Goldsmith
Senior Scientist
Taligent, Inc.
10355 N. DeAnza Blvd.
Cupertino, CA 95014-2233
david_g...@taligent.com
Paul Cordeiro
> No, it would be pronounced "ee-know-uu-eh". Each phoneme receives
> an equal beat. And since "no" and "u" are not part of the same
> kanji, they should not be treated as such.
Okay, I understand now. Thanks. I just got a little confused with the
seperation of "no" and "u"
David Goldsmith
<Pine.A32.3.91.960322...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>, Paul
Cordeiro <shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Ryo-oh-ki wrote:
>
> > No, it would be pronounced "ee-know-uu-eh". Each phoneme receives
> > an equal beat. And since "no" and "u" are not part of the same
> > kanji, they should not be treated as such.
>
> Okay, I understand now. Thanks. I just got a little confused with the
> seperation of "no" and "u"
>
Well, you would think so, but I have heard Japanese people run o and u
together as oh, never mind whether they're part of the same kanji or not
(or even the same word). I don't know if this is "correct", but it seems
to be how many Japanese pronounce it.
Ryo-oh-ki
:Paul Cordeiro <shi...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
:> On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Ryo-oh-ki wrote:
:>
:> > No, it would be pronounced "ee-know-uu-eh". Each phoneme receives
:> > an equal beat. And since "no" and "u" are not part of the same
:> > kanji, they should not be treated as such.
:>
:> Okay, I understand now. Thanks. I just got a little confused with the
:> seperation of "no" and "u"
:
:Well, you would think so, but I have heard Japanese people run o and u
:together as oh, never mind whether they're part of the same kanji or not
:(or even the same word). I don't know if this is "correct", but it seems
:to be how many Japanese pronounce it.
Are you sure they are saying "inooe", or "inoue" --- i.e. do you
hear a diphthong between the 'o' and 'u' sound? This kind of
linguistic tendency seems to be quite prevalent in many languages,
regardless of language family.
Then again, saying it *strictly* as "inooe" without the diphthong
sounds weird. ^^;
___/^_^\___ Eugene Lee Ryo-oh-ki Muyo! Tenchi
David Goldsmith
>:Well, you would think so, but I have heard Japanese people run o and u
>:together as oh, never mind whether they're part of the same kanji or not
>:(or even the same word). I don't know if this is "correct", but it seems
>:to be how many Japanese pronounce it.
>
> Are you sure they are saying "inooe", or "inoue" --- i.e. do you
> hear a diphthong between the 'o' and 'u' sound? This kind of
> linguistic tendency seems to be quite prevalent in many languages,
> regardless of language family.
>
> Then again, saying it *strictly* as "inooe" without the diphthong
> sounds weird. ^^;
I have heard "ou" pronounced "oo" (no dipthong) many times when the two
sounds belonged to different kanji or words. I'm pretty sure it wasn't
just me missing the dipthong. I don't know if it's "correct", and I
haven't heard it specifically for the name "Inoue" (I'm not sure I've ever
heard a native speaker pronounce this name).
Kagato
: I have heard "ou" pronounced "oo" (no dipthong) many times when the two
: sounds belonged to different kanji or words. I'm pretty sure it wasn't
: just me missing the dipthong. I don't know if it's "correct", and I
: haven't heard it specifically for the name "Inoue" (I'm not sure I've ever
: heard a native speaker pronounce this name).
We have now progressed into dialects. ^^ My Japanese teacher describes
the "Inooe" vocalisation as an Oosaka accent. ;)
Ryo-oh-ki
:David Goldsmith (david_g...@taligent.com) wrote:
:
:: I have heard "ou" pronounced "oo" (no dipthong) many times when the two
:: sounds belonged to different kanji or words. I'm pretty sure it wasn't
:: just me missing the dipthong. I don't know if it's "correct", and I
:: haven't heard it specifically for the name "Inoue" (I'm not sure I've ever
:: heard a native speaker pronounce this name).
:
: We have now progressed into dialects. ^^ My Japanese teacher describes
:the "Inooe" vocalisation as an Oosaka accent. ;)
Bwahahahahaa!
I guess the only question left now is, "Where is Inoue Kikuko from?"
Where are the Kikko-chan fans when you need them?
___/^O^\___ Eugene Lee Ryo-oh-ki Muyo! Tenchi