[REVIEW] Neon Cliche Evangelion
Angst-sensei
> Is this the same Ryan Mathews who wanted to duck out of the Katsucon
>online panel to catch the last 3 installments of Evangelion? ^^
>(Which did not happen as Gainax did not allow the tapes to leave their
>offices--thanks to Evagate.)
I seem to have coined a phrase. But what's being done about it at the
corporate level? (Helloooooo, Gainax, are you receiving?)
> On the surface, it does look like your typical giant robot anime. I mean,
>there are giant robots and their enemies, special people to do the
>fighting, etc., but the more I've watched, the less the show seems to
>focus on fighting Angels and more on the characters, their relationships
>to each other (and I disctinctly feel a hefty Jungian punch coming at us
>from Anno's fist from eps. 16 onward :), and perhaps most importantly, the
>possible truth about what lies between God and man and their ultimate destiny.
There are certain things about Evangelion which make me angry--bearing
in mind that I've but seen the first 8 episodes, and not the following
dozen-plus.
These things are not rooted with the creators, or perceived lack of
originality in the plot. They have to do with the interactions of the
characters. Specifically, the treatment of Shinji-kun by everyone else
at NERV--not only do they thrust him into a situation for which he is
unprepared, one which is doing his psyche no real good whatsoever, but
when he tries to escape his fate, they make him feel guilty for not
suffering his pain gladly. Yes, should Shinji refuse to fight against
the Angels, the only recourse is to use Rei as a pilot, but the manner
in which this non-choice is presented to Shinji is abhorrent.
It's bits like this which make this show so good--if I can get angry at
the motivations and machinations of fictional characters, then something
about them must be emulating reality effectively.
--Angst-sensei
(Thinks Pen-Pen should be in charge of NERV.)
--
/-\ ** Jeff Williamson *** Lightfall Integrated Media *** Chicago, IL ** /-\
|A| E-mail: doca...@mcs.com *@_@* Anime Central Recruitment Coordinator |9|
|C| *==> "In every revolution, there is one man with a vision." <==* |8|
\-/ * =If you're Friends with Key, well, then, you're friends with me= * \-/
Enrique Conty
>
>To put it bluntly, EVANGELION is Yet Another Giant Robot Show. The
>plot could be done with a template:
So you watch the first couple of episodes, and decide that the rest of
the show must be like that. A rather *shallow* judgement, isn't it?
>Now, I know I've only seen the first couple of episodes, but I don't
>care. I'm not patient enough to be willing to sit through X number of
>bad episodes to get to "the good stuff".
3 more? An hour and a half, less if you zap the ads? (And I'd hardly
claim that 3 and 4 are bad.) If you watch up to 5 and are still not
convinced, I won't bother you anymore.
--
Enrique Conty | co...@cig.mot.com | http://www.mcs.net/~conty
NuVista+ Mac genlock/video capture board for sale. | Wargame stuff for sale.
Read AMPlus, the Anime and Manga webzine - http://www.jurai.net/amplus/
Anime Central, the first anime convention of the Midwest, coming in 1998!
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
: [The Angels], a powerful enemy force, are attacking [the Earth],
: nothing can stop them, nothing except the giant robot [Evangelion],
: which uses the same technology as [the Angels]. The pilot, [Shinji],
: [was born and bred for the task/is the son of the robot's creator], but
: is reluctant to become the pilot.
You're skimming a little too close to the surface. There's a lot
more hinted at; weird references to the Kabbalah, and questions raised
about creationism and humankind's origins. Watch some more episodes, and
then judge. EVANGELION is formulatic, but only on the surface, and only
for the first couple of episodes.
--
shuddup.
Kagato
: To this day, I still stand in a very small minority, or perhaps alone,
: in considering GUNBUSTER to be a poorly-written piece of tripe. Well,
: folks, it looks like history is about to repeat itself, because I
: checked out NEON GENESIS EVANGELION, and man, I was *not* impressed.
: Now, I know I've only seen the first couple of episodes, but I don't
: care. I'm not patient enough to be willing to sit through X number of
: bad episodes to get to "the good stuff".
: ---------- Ryan Mathews
Is this the same Ryan Mathews who wanted to duck out of the Katsucon
online panel to catch the last 3 installments of Evangelion? ^^
(Which did not happen as Gainax did not allow the tapes to leave their
offices--thanks to Evagate.)
Also, if you've only watched two episodes, then the conclusions you've
drawn have a fair chance of being incorrect. (Example: Shinji, though in
the Eva-01 entry plug, had nothing to with the actual battle in ep. 2.
His terror/fear/will-to-survive reaction may have catalyzed Eva-01 into
action, but it wasn't Shinji's fight. Watch the way the Eva attacks the
Angel--like an animal. Sort of explains the episode title, too: "The Beast")
On the surface, it does look like your typical giant robot anime. I mean,
there are giant robots and their enemies, special people to do the
fighting, etc., but the more I've watched, the less the show seems to
focus on fighting Angels and more on the characters, their relationships
to each other (and I disctinctly feel a hefty Jungian punch coming at us
from Anno's fist from eps. 16 onward :), and perhaps most importantly, the
possible truth about what lies between God and man and their ultimate
destiny.
It may very well be this is not the show for you, but definitely isn't a
show that can be anticipated in two episodes.
--Scott
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher S. Rider -- "The Old Crow" -- http://www.mcs.com/~syzygy/
God's in his Heaven. All's right with the world.
------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
Kagato
: I seem to have coined a phrase. But what's being done about it at the
: corporate level? (Helloooooo, Gainax, are you receiving?)
Jeff, I've asked a few industry folks about this; the general concensus
is that Gainax, contrary to popular belief, does not have the distribution
rights to foreign markets. Star Child is doing the domestic (Japan) video/LD
and CD releases, but ING (or is it IDG?) is the company that holds something
like a 70% share in Eva, and final say regarding distribution to other
markets is their concern. (Not Movic's, ergo Evagate.) So, begrudging
Gainax isn't going to help.
(I am sure that Gainax still owns copyrights to artwork, characters and
situations, however, which is why they may take offense at folks posting
Eva stuff all over the web. For my own part, I can understand Gainax'
stance on this. I mean, it is they who busted their butts to make this
whole thing, and to have it bandied about freely and without their
consent has got to be irritating. No amount of noble justification to
things like "free advertising" is going to change this, either. Eva gets
plenty of ad copy as it is.)
: > On the surface, it does look like your typical giant robot anime. I mean,
: >there are giant robots and their enemies, special people to do the
: >fighting, etc., but the more I've watched, the less the show seems to
: >focus on fighting Angels and more on the characters, their relationships
: >to each other (and I disctinctly feel a hefty Jungian punch coming at us
: >from Anno's fist from eps. 16 onward :), and perhaps most importantly, the
: >possible truth about what lies between God and man and their ultimate destiny.
: There are certain things about Evangelion which make me angry--bearing
: in mind that I've but seen the first 8 episodes, and not the following
: dozen-plus.
: These things are not rooted with the creators, or perceived lack of
: originality in the plot. They have to do with the interactions of the
: characters. Specifically, the treatment of Shinji-kun by everyone else
: at NERV--not only do they thrust him into a situation for which he is
: unprepared, one which is doing his psyche no real good whatsoever, but
: when he tries to escape his fate, they make him feel guilty for not
: suffering his pain gladly. Yes, should Shinji refuse to fight against
: the Angels, the only recourse is to use Rei as a pilot, but the manner
: in which this non-choice is presented to Shinji is abhorrent.
: It's bits like this which make this show so good--if I can get angry at
: the motivations and machinations of fictional characters, then something
: about them must be emulating reality effectively.
Old Crow's SF Maxim: One can always tell the quality of a given story
by the amount of controversy it sparks. (And if you're angered by the first
eight, you will be positively ired by the time you reach #21. :)
: --Angst-sensei
: (Thinks Pen-Pen should be in charge of NERV.)
Pen-pen: breeep! brwaaawakakakakaka!
Angel: (translated) Thats it...we're screwed.
;) --Crow
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher S. Rider -- "The Old Crow" -- http://www.mcs.com/~syzygy/
<> Tenshi <> <> Mima*Tomoyo <>
<> Misato*Asuka*Ritsuko <> <> Tokiko*Sakura*Miho <>
<> Shinseiki Evangelion <> <> Key the Metal Idol <>
<> Rei*Shinji*Gendou <> <> Ajou*D*Tamari <>
<> NERV <> <> A.J.O. <>
Charles Hagmaier
>In response to the rather vitriolic assessment of "Shin Seiki Evangelion:
Now, I have always been first to pester Ryan on his love-hate relationship
with Dirty Pair... but if there's one thing that good criticism cannot
survive without, it's passion. Vitriol or ardour, there must needs be
one or the other present for honest review.
Mitch Hagmaier
Quest Labs
Why does this sound like that argument between SeaWasp and the hardKOR
loonies, where they were insisting that you needed to see the whole
wretched series before you were allowed to dismiss it as dull rubbish?
(BTW, I haven't seen anything of Evangelion yet, and am offically
neutral in this).
Charles Hagmaier
>Everyone! Here's another cliche of the stuck up band-width killer posting
>on something that he/she had barely scratched the surface about.
Ooh! Here's someone who abides by the statistical definition of truth!
Fact and opinion are undifferentiated, and both are determined by the
greatest plurality of the general population!
I often argue viciously with Ryan, but I will defend his right to
say possibly stupid and definitely offensive things unto the heat-
death of the Internet.
Mitch Hagmaier
Quest Labs
Reiji Muskett
>
> In article <4i59i0$1k...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>, PHP...@prodigy.com
> (William Geiger) wrote:
>
>
> > GWARGGGHHHH!!! SNARL!!!! You take that back or I'll mail you all my
> > Adam Warren DIRTY PAIR comics! (As Irwin can verify. If someone annoys
> > me I just mail them the stuff they hate most 8)
>
> William, Ryan probably has them already. ;)
>
> Stephanie
Soo desu ne.
Ryan does have a point though (although I like NGEVE a lot ... I'm
searching through my boxes for Foucault's Pendulum ... I have at least
the first manga to study... however there has been a heavy discussion
of EVA elsewhere so I'll wait for more OAVs and buy the manga where
I can find them).
BTW thank you. ^_^
Reiji Muskett
StudioUFO
O-jamashimashita
Ryan Mathews
>
> Is this the same Ryan Mathews who wanted to duck out of the Katsucon
>online panel to catch the last 3 installments of Evangelion? ^^
Yeah, 'cuz everyone was telling me it was the greatest damned thing
since sliced bread! It was the hype that ruined it for me more than
anything else! Even if I was to accept Eva-fans arguments of the
subtle wrinkles of EVANGELION, it was hyped to be this incredible,
knock-ya-on-yer-tail, life-affirming experience anime. And all I could
see was a nicely drawn, but still cliched, giant robot show.
--
---------- Ryan Mathews
Email: math...@ix.netcom.com "I like you! You wanna be a
SnailMail: 401 Mortimer Drive #410 guinea pig for my experiments?"
Bedford OH, 44146 -- Washuu-chan
Ryan Mathews
writes:
>So you watch the first couple of episodes, and decide that the rest of
>the show must be like that.
Well, uh, yeah! I mean, isn't the first episode of a television series
the single most important episode? That's where you lay out exactly
what the show is about, explain to viewers why they should tune in next
week.
>If you watch up to 5 and are still not convinced, I won't bother you
>anymore.
Yeeg, two-and-a-half hours worth. I may give it a shot, but I'll tell
you right now, it has its work cut out for it if it wants to convince
me. The Giant Robot genre has been done to death so many times that
there needs to be something really Different about the plot to make it
worth watching. If that Something Different was in the first two
episodes, it was doing a great job of hiding.
Neil Scott Nadelman
: In <4i5tsh$k...@newdelph.cig.mot.com> co...@rtsg.mot.com (Enrique Conty)
: writes:
: >
: >So you watch the first couple of episodes, and decide that the rest of
: >the show must be like that.
: Well, uh, yeah! I mean, isn't the first episode of a television series
: the single most important episode? That's where you lay out exactly
: what the show is about, explain to viewers why they should tune in next
: week.
--
Well, no. In this cse the first episode ws designed to lure
viewers in by making it look like a standard robot show. Anno spends
a lot of time setting up the chirs in a familiar pattern and then
kicking them out from under you after you've sat down.
The theme of the entire series has been about evolution and change.
You can't start your evolution without beginning somewhere, and Anno chose
to begin with the cliches of robot series.
The thing is, the Evangelion isn't really a robot, it's...
Aw hell, just watch more episodes or jump on the Eva site in
Japan to read Wada-kun's rather amusing translations. This is a very
densely packed show, and I think you're missing the point by prejudging
it like this.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman...@user1.channel1.com| The blood still pulses in my veins.
----------------------------------------| The sun, still at its zenith.
I fear nothing in life because | And I... I, Antonius Block...
I've already survived Theta-G! | Am playing chess with Death.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Scott Nadelman
: In <4i7tnh$3...@Mercury.mcs.com> syz...@MCS.COM (Kagato) writes:
: >
: > Is this the same Ryan Mathews who wanted to duck out of the Katsucon
: >online panel to catch the last 3 installments of Evangelion? ^^
: Yeah, 'cuz everyone was telling me it was the greatest damned thing
: since sliced bread! It was the hype that ruined it for me more than
: anything else! Even if I was to accept Eva-fans arguments of the
: subtle wrinkles of EVANGELION, it was hyped to be this incredible,
: knock-ya-on-yer-tail, life-affirming experience anime. And all I could
: see was a nicely drawn, but still cliched, giant robot show.
: --
: ---------- Ryan Mathews
--
Knock you on your tail, yes. Life affirming? I don't know.
If you saw episodes 18-20, you'd understand what I mean.
Knight of the Black Rose
> Ryan Mathews (math...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : To this day, I still stand in a very small minority, or perhaps alone,
> : in considering GUNBUSTER to be a poorly-written piece of tripe. Well,
> : folks, it looks like history is about to repeat itself, because I
> : checked out NEON GENESIS EVANGELION, and man, I was *not* impressed.
Haven't watched Neon yet much, but I never was much impressed by Gunbuster.
Some friends of mine who think I'm crazy sat me down with some others and we
watched all the Gunbusters lasers from start to finish (in original Japanese,
no translations). I must say, I kind of liked it that time through for some
reason. Like the VAs and characters too.
>
> : Oops. That's HADES PROJECT ZEORYMER. I'll try again.
Hades Project was kind of your brainless mecha show. I found it somewhat
amusing/fun.
> This comparsion struck me as well - particularly since I like Zeorymer a lot.
>
> I guess it's just a matter of certain ideas, characters, and images
> resonating with some people and not with others. Conty and I like a lot
> of the same things (Giant Robo for instance), but he's really into Evangelion
I like Giant Robo mucho man. Its' grande magnifique!
It's drama on a level of 0083.
Sorry, must be that stupid Wendy's commercial.
--I--am--- \ / "Sidekick Wave!""Dead Scream!""Rousan Shi Ryu Ha!" \ /
Darksphere (|) "Fujisawa Monster Kick!""Land Rover Attack!""Honey Flash!" (|)
----------
I saw the Darkness, <> Dirty Pair * Ranma * Nadia * U.Y. * M.I. * Iczer-One
and it was bright. <> * Lady Death * Gold Digger * Ghost * Mutant Chronicles
Darkworld:
WWW: http://miavx1.muohio.edu/~aefigueroa (Grandis, Ran, Naga, Sakura Yamazaki)
William Geiger
Exactly. Then He'll have two copies each! 8)
Seperated at birth?
Hikaru-Chan:"Happy! Happy! Lucky! Lucky!"
Stimpy-kun:"Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!"
Lanzer
>To this day, I still stand in a very small minority, or perhaps alone,
>in considering GUNBUSTER to be a poorly-written piece of tripe. Well,
>folks, it looks like history is about to repeat itself, because I
>checked out NEON GENESIS EVANGELION, and man, I was *not* impressed.
Everyone! Here's another cliche of the stuck up band-width killer posting
on something that he/she had barely scratched the surface about.
If you think you've got something so smart to say that all the thousands of
Eva fans just missed (ALOT of people had seen all the anime you mentioned),
keep them to yourself, since probably you're the only one who missed the
qualities that Eva has to offer while others could see it all, even from
the first two episodes. (not to mention that many of us are up to episode
24 now.)
--
(x_x)Lanzer's vacation96 report: http://mindlink.net/lanzer/trip.html (-_-)
(^_^)Derek Liu, or Lanzer, at lan...@mindlink.net. Vancouver, Canada! (-_^)
(v_v)Full time student, part time street fighter, author of SFLIU too.(^.^)
(^o^)http://mindlink.net/lanzer/ for the Sasami Shrine & Ryoko's Cave!(@_@)
Mark Bradley
> GWARGGGHHHH!!! SNARL!!!! You take that back or I'll mail you all my
> Adam Warren DIRTY PAIR comics! (As Irwin can verify. If someone annoys
> me I just mail them the stuff they hate most 8)
William, Ryan probably has them already. ;)
Stephanie
Elizabeth HL Horn
ZEORYMER, GIANT ROBO, and GUNDAM is certainly correct as far as it
goes. It might be added as a caveat that EVA's concept predates two of
those productions, but that is a side point; it is an acknowledged
part of Gainax's creative character that, as otaku, they take
considerable inspiration from what has been done before. (It is a
little like dismissing UNFORGIVEN after hearing it involves cowboys
tracking down desperadoes in the Old West) There is no use pretending,
and Gainax certainly does not, that it is an original idea for a son
to reluctantly pilot a mecha built by his father, a mecha with which
he nevertheless has a special, important bond, that helps him to
complete his mission.
These ideas, however, do not really derive from anime, but are more
basic: they are universal issues of parent and child. Children do not
ask to be given their "mission" (i.e., life), at times (or even all
the time) they hate their parents, yet they often learn to bond their
self-awareness with the "vehicle" their parents provided them
with--i.e., their living body, and thus complete their mission through
growth ("To live is to change" is one of the maxims of the series, and
it applies to Anno as much as Shinji).
It looks as if what Shinji is going to become is as different from
*homo sapiens* as a pair of gametes were from Shinji. I guess it
reflects a question we all ask ourselves sometimes: considering the
pain and trouble of this life, would you rather have never been
anything more than those two unjoined germ cells, or would you prefer
the travails of existence to that state? Birth means blood and pain;
and it seems evident from the start that Shinji would have rather
remained what he was than be incubated within the Eva to become
something unimaginable. The trick, of course, is that Shinji, in his
"normal" life, wasn't in a state of non-awareness, but in a state of
unhappiness, ironically *because* his parents, while giving him life,
were either unable or unwilling to give him an upbringing. Now, in an
extraordinary way, years later, both have returned to do so. But it is
not the sort of upbringing Shinji could have pictured.
As you may have gathered, these are statements based on having seen
through episode #20, not through #2, which, you will admit, is only
the 8% of the series. Although I naturally have an emotional stake in
Gainax, I am not a mecha fan per se, and I will admit to not having
been particularly enamored with EVA's look when I saw its color images
for the first time last April; neither did I see anything truly
extraordinary in at least the first episode. I continued watching
because, at the very least, I enjoyed it, and, based on my knowledge
of Gainax's potential and Anno's personal motivations for making
the series, I believed that they would indeed produce something
extraordinary.
I have not been disappointed; EVA has revealed itself to be an intense
and mutable show bursting with vitality, an adult show (there's an
interesting comic-letter from a 30-year-old Japanese woman in the
March NEWTYPE on this subject), and perhaps the first truly dangerous
anime TV show in some time. Although you have remarked upon the
beginning of the show containing familiar elements, the salient
characteristic of EVA at this point is that is *unpredictable*--with
Anno kicking out chair legs with every episode. It is a bizarre and
compelling program. And thankfully, it looks as if it is going to be
more than a modest success for Gainax.
--Carl "I never let on/That I was on a sinking ship" Horn
P.S. I think that many people have failed to realize the strong
satirical aspects of GUNBUSTER. For a better understanding of why its
script is as chaotic as it is, please check out part two of the Toshio
Okada interview in the March Animerica.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the
last.
--Revelation 22:13
Ultimate evolution is self-destruction.
--Ikari Gendou
Kyle Pope
While it is certainly true that "Evangelion" is a mecha show this is in and of
itself not a detriment. Anime (as well as other art media) is known to have
familiar genres in which all manner of stories can be told. "Evangelion is IMHO
one of the better and more memorable mecha shows because of the many departures
it makes from the standard format of the genre. The closest mecha show I can
compare it to would be "Patlabor" because like "Patlabor", "Evangelion" is a
mecha show that isn't mecha driven. Some of the best episodes of "Patlabor"
never had a labor featured in them. The episode where Gotou and Shinobu were
stranded and spent the night in a "love hotel", the drinking contest between
Kanuka and Noa, the competition between Kanuka and Kumagami are prime example of
this.
"Evangelion" has many of these same aspects. Unlike other mecha shows it does
not show a heroic band of freedom fighters standing bravely against alien
invasion. It shows a group of scarred and damaged people living day-to-day life
in a nightmare. No one in "Evangelion" is particularly heroic or even
admirable. Misato is very immature and erratic given the position of
responsibility she holds. Gendou is a monster who's probably worse for humanity
than the Angels he's fighting. Shinji is no brave volunteer but someone caught
up in events beyond even his ability to comprehend. Ritsuko is as warm and
compassionate as the EVA units she maintains. Rei bears scars that will haunt
her for the rest of her existence. Even Asuka's confident exterior is shown to
be a fascade that is now developing major cracks and will no doubt shatter soon.
It is the characters of "Evangelion" that make it stand out amongst the anime
offerings this year and which make it the most desired acquisition in any anime
fan's collection. This dark universe is a place I would not want to visit,
Misato-chan not withstanding. There are plenty of opportunities for watching
giant mecha beating the lubricant out of one another, many of them are quite
forgettable. What makes "Evangelion" the wonder that it is is how the people
are handled. The complete abandonment of the concepts of "hero" and "Villain";
replacing them with people and the unknown (we still don't know what the Angels
are after or even if they're evil) makes this an anime that holds your
attention. These people are being slowly destroyed by their circumstances as we
stare transfixed at the process. "Evangelion" is a dark and grotesque piece of
anime and I, for one, am glad that it is an area being explored again. I
haven't seen anything like this since "Kyuuketsuki Miyuu".
--
Kyle
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered." - No. 6
Knight of the Black Rose
> In article <4i7tnh$3...@mercury.mcs.com>, Kagato <syz...@MCS.COM> wrote:
>>online panel to catch the last 3 installments of Evangelion? ^^
Ah, a true Otaku. 'Tis refreshing. Follow the true path. Follow the path.
--
--I--am--- \ / "Sidekick Wave!""Dead Scream!""Rousan Shi Ryu Ha!""Urk!" \ /
Peter R. Payne
> Oh, yeah! In *this* anime, the boy's father had created the robot.
> But still, he can fly it better than anyone else, so he reluctantly
> climbs inside and helps to crush the forces of the Jion Empire as
> they--
>
> Oh, damn. That's MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM. Let me try one more time.
I want to flame you. I really do. But you're right. :)
On the OTHER HAND, how could you NOT know that ANIME builds on itself.
Nothing is original. Everything is a tribute to whatever the current
crop of animators loved when they were born as otakus. And Gainax is the
PRIME otaku company, with designers and illustrators who put their souls
into what they create. We go from Yamato (space Battleship) to Macross
(a robot so big its arms are battleships). That sort of thing.
If you are really serious about missing the show, then off to hades with
you. There WON'T be another show like this in the 90s.
--
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
I have a list of Japan-related stuff I am selling. It includes Japanese
adult materials (over 18 only), anime/manga stuff and Japanese CDs.
Leave email to sei...@mail.wind.co.jp to get the list, or check out my
page at http://www.zynet.com/~seishun/index.html (no adult stuff at this
site, email age statement required to get access to the other site).
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Invid fan
Mathews ) wrote:
> In <4i7tnh$3...@Mercury.mcs.com> syz...@MCS.COM (Kagato) writes:
> >
> > Is this the same Ryan Mathews who wanted to duck out of the Katsucon
> >online panel to catch the last 3 installments of Evangelion? ^^
>
> Yeah, 'cuz everyone was telling me it was the greatest damned thing
> since sliced bread! It was the hype that ruined it for me more than
> anything else!
"Don't believe the hype!" - Public Enemy
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit, that's how I've always
"Invid fan" seen us. Not a help, you'll admit, to agree-
ment between us."
-the Russian, "Deal/No Deal" from CHESS
In...@localnet.com "Motercycle freak, that's you!"
-Yellow, GENESIS CLIMBER MOSPEADA
Enrique Conty
>In <4i5tsh$k...@newdelph.cig.mot.com> co...@rtsg.mot.com (Enrique Conty)
>writes:
>>So you watch the first couple of episodes, and decide that the rest of
>>the show must be like that.
>Well, uh, yeah! I mean, isn't the first episode of a television series
>the single most important episode?
No, the climax usually is. You know, that part at the end where the plot
draws to a head?
>That's where you lay out exactly what the show is about
*NO*! You only do that when you don't expect anything on the show to
ever change. (Like, say, Ranma 1/2.)
>explain to viewers why they should tune in next week.
That IS true. The Hook. Provide a reason for the viewer to keep watching.
In my case, it was the *intense* fight scene from #2, which worked as a
promise of things to come.
>>If you watch up to 5 and are still not convinced, I won't bother you
>>anymore.
>
>Yeeg, two-and-a-half hours worth.
1.5. You already saw 1 and 2.
>The Giant Robot genre has been done to death so many times that there
>needs to be something really Different about the plot to make it
>worth watching.
This is exactly what Anno set out to do. And 23 episodes later,
I can only say he's succeeded beyond my wildest expectations.
Sure, some of the trappings seem familiar from other shows, but as you said
the genre as a whole has been done to death. Where Anno takes this setting
is what makes the show so awesome...
Angst-sensei
>
> Jeff, I've asked a few industry folks about this; the general concensus
>is that Gainax, contrary to popular belief, does not have the distribution
>rights to foreign markets. Star Child is doing the domestic (Japan) video/LD
>and CD releases, but ING (or is it IDG?) is the company that holds something
>like a 70% share in Eva, and final say regarding distribution to other
>markets is their concern. (Not Movic's, ergo Evagate.) So, begrudging
>Gainax isn't going to help.
Actually, I was looking for some kind of press release. Interesting
that Gainax *doesn't* hold overseas distribution rights, and neither
does Movic.
Looks like actually getting a domestic release is far in the future.
*sigh*
> Old Crow's SF Maxim: One can always tell the quality of a given story
>by the amount of controversy it sparks. (And if you're angered by the first
>eight, you will be positively ired by the time you reach #21. :)
No car, no Tokyo Video. No contacts in Japan sending me the TV tapes.
Looks like I'll have to talk to The Conty. ^_^
>: --Angst-sensei
>: (Thinks Pen-Pen should be in charge of NERV.)
>
> Pen-pen: breeep! brwaaawakakakakaka!
>
> Angel: (translated) Thats it...we're screwed.
And of course, what Pen-Pen said there was, "Force-feed them Misako's
cooking!"
--Angst-sensei
(*glurk*)
Michael Liu
>
> The Giant Robot genre has been done to death so many times that
> there needs to be something really Different about the plot to make it
> worth watching.
Written like a man who has never seen a true giant robot series. ^_^ But
you're right, Evangelion ain't it. It is a good series, though, probably
the best anime TV series since Tekkaman Blade.
All the great anime superhero/giant robot series are great tragedies
featuring charismatic people who do not shy away from life. This charm is
somehow lost on the present audience.
Michael Liu
ae...@Freenet.carleton.ca
Charles Hagmaier
>All the great anime superhero/giant robot series are great tragedies
>featuring charismatic people who do not shy away from life. This charm is
>somehow lost on the present audience.
At least that's the image I get from Mike's alleged "true giant robot series",
like Nagai's stuff...
Mitch Hagmaier
Quest Labs
And if I hear one damn thing more about seishun, I'm gonna sic Quentin
Tarantino on 'em...
Enrique Conty
>
>Are anime TV series ever cancelled in mid-run?
Very, very rarely. I'm guessing that when a contract is made for X number
of episodes, the station would likely be in breach of contract if they
cancel the show too early. I suppose the ratings would *really* have to
stink, tho.
Charles Hagmaier
>Very, very rarely. I'm guessing that when a contract is made for X number
>of episodes, the station would likely be in breach of contract if they
>cancel the show too early. I suppose the ratings would *really* have to
>stink, tho.
about half-way through, so that the creators had to force the ending
to wrap the story up in the remaining time? It was an awfully strange
episode length, 43 episodes...
Mitch Hagmaeir
Enrique Conty
>
> As the many follow-up posts show, Mr. Matthews is a "know it
>all" who feels he's seen it all. [blahblahblah]
Here, free clue. Ryan may have called this one wrong, but that
doesn't mean he's any of the things you claim him to be.
Sean Wilson
Gunbuster wasnt that good , and the new shows seem to be a bit too
familiar for they're own good..
The thing you have to remember is , that to many kids this is original..
The ones that missed the Gundam/Macross sagas...
And japanese producers know its popular , so they keep on making
'similar shows'
What you have to say is relevant for us 'real', 'mature', 'old school'
fans but will leave the younger fans betrayed and confused..
Thanks , Sean
Reiji Muskett
Very true. My biggest criticism of NGEVA is the music at portions such as
when the evangelion is being launched
to the surface (the music is weak ... sorta like a space cadet force
and such). But what drew me to the story was Shinji's awakard-shyness
and being thrust into such a situation at a moments notice (at least
from eps 1 and 2). As veiwer of the story, we are thrown into a conflict
in seeming midcourse. Then when I bought the manga, Rei stare form the
inside cover page spoke to me in subtle ways, as if warning of regret.
On the next page Rei is agian staring but this time its a stare of
utter fear: a warning of something unspeakable to come.
Also on the back cover of the manga is NERV'S motto (mentioned elsewhere)
"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world." This is a striking
statement and metaphor evoking Nietzsche's view of humanity. This is what
draws me to the anime and manga story.
Reiji Muskett
StudioUFO
O-jamashimashita
Donny Chan
IM>Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
IM>Subject: Re: [REVIEW] Neon Cliche Evangelion
IM>Date: 19 Mar 1996 03:23:41 GMT
IM>Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
IM>Very true. My biggest criticism of NGEVA is the music at portions such as
IM>when the evangelion is being launched
IM>to the surface (the music is weak ... sorta like a space cadet force
IM>and such). But what drew me to the story was Shinji's awakard-shyness
The BGM suits the good old Giant Robot days of Mazinger Z, et al.
IM>and being thrust into such a situation at a moments notice (at least
IM>from eps 1 and 2). As veiwer of the story, we are thrown into a conflict
IM>in seeming midcourse. Then when I bought the manga, Rei stare form the
There's a war going on the Angels, you know, and it began 15 years
ago, when the Angels dictated a cease-or-decease choice to the
Earthians with the Second Impact.
IM>inside cover page spoke to me in subtle ways, as if warning of regret.
IM>On the next page Rei is agian staring but this time its a stare of
IM>utter fear: a warning of something unspeakable to come.
Rei's pitiful.
IM>Also on the back cover of the manga is NERV'S motto (mentioned elsewhere)
IM>"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world." This is a striking
IM>statement and metaphor evoking Nietzsche's view of humanity. This is what
IM>draws me to the anime and manga story.
Rather a philosophical chap, eh?
Don "Asuka-haters unite!" Chan
---
* DeLuxe2 1.21 #6922 * "I pray, pray to bring near the New Day." - Gundam II
Donny Chan
Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario)
Rei's pitiful.
--
|Fidonet: Donny Chan 1:343/1304
|Internet: Donny...@kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6023 Everett WA
Eric J. Henwood-Greer
In a previous article, co...@rtsg.mot.com (Enrique Conty) says:
>In article <4idf35$3...@mercury.mcs.com> allo...@MCS.COM (Samuel Crider) writes:
>>
>>Are anime TV series ever cancelled in mid-run?
>
>Very, very rarely. I'm guessing that when a contract is made for X number
>of episodes, the station would likely be in breach of contract if they
>cancel the show too early. I suppose the ratings would *really* have to
>stink, tho.
>
I remember reading that the original Tekkaman series from the 70's
(dubbed here in the mid 80's) was cancelled in mid run in Japan
Eric
Mayeen Alam
Ryan Mathews <math...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>To this day, I still stand in a very small minority, or perhaps alone,
>in considering GUNBUSTER to be a poorly-written piece of tripe. Well,
>folks, it looks like history is about to repeat itself, because I
>checked out NEON GENESIS EVANGELION, and man, I was *not* impressed.
I would be lying if I said that Gunbuster was perfect or even a
masterpiece in the way of Dostoevsky. But to say that it was a poorly
written piece of tripe requires something of a difference in taste and
ability to comprehend a story that I am at a loss to even empathise with.
I'd say you have high standards that extremely few anime shows
(and certainly no Giant Robot shows) can live up to.
>Here's a quick summary of the plot:
[interesting and altogether obviouse parallels deleted... err.. wait...
Those were examples of set-up to the story, not the plot of the story!
Hmmmm...]
>
>To put it bluntly, EVANGELION is Yet Another Giant Robot Show. The
>plot could be done with a template:
[again, setup and about 1/10 (if that) of Evangelion plot deleted.]
>
>Yawn. Wake me up when it's over. Oh, sure, it looks great! But,
>hell, so did the visually stunning GUNBUSTER, and I still maintain that
>show is crap.
Judging a show by the first couple of episodes is like judging a
book by it's first couple of chapters. No self respecting critic would be
caught dead doing it. Even the TV critics see at least the first half of
a season (in special screenings) before judging a show.
As for Gunbuster, I really can't understand how you can say
Gunbuster isn't up to spec. What Giant Robot show is better? Gundam?
Don't make me laugh! (and they had a whole season, and more to tell their
story) Hmmm... Macross Plus is pretty good, and it breaks a lot of Giant
Robot conventions, but Gunbuster shows quite favorably to even that IMHO.
>I'll give it this: it has a great opening theme. Unfortunately, it's
>wasted on an uninteresting show, and isn't even appropriate anyway.
>The theme gets you all pumped, and then you're treated to Shinji, a boy
>who seems to be taking too much lithium. Either that, or one of the
>prerequisites for being an Evangelion pilot is to have a frontal
>lobotomy.
It's his character. Let's just say that he wasn't role model
material for me anyway. He has a frustratingly passive character, but
then he's not the only flacid hero out in anime land...
>Misato was the one saving grace of the show. I enjoyed her. But it
>wasn't enough.
Misato??? She's your typical anime girl! Let's put it this way: A
outspoken, confident, and intelligent pretty girl, who emphasises her
sexy nature, but somehow is shy and totally incapable of expressing her
romantic self... Sound familiar?
>Now, I know I've only seen the first couple of episodes, but I don't
>care. I'm not patient enough to be willing to sit through X number of
>bad episodes to get to "the good stuff".
Even if the first episodes weren't earth moving, I hardly can see
where they were bad.
>So, to sum up my review: Been there, done that.
Not in certain aspects you haven't. It's part rehash. But the
rehash ain't painful, and boring. The rest of it is definately worth
seeing.
-M.
(places to go, things to do)
Mayeen Alam
>Ryan Mathews (math...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: To this day, I still stand in a very small minority, or perhaps alone,
>: in considering GUNBUSTER to be a poorly-written piece of tripe. Well,
>: folks, it looks like history is about to repeat itself, because I
>: checked out NEON GENESIS EVANGELION, and man, I was *not* impressed.
>
>always puzzles me as well (it started out funny... but then left me
>scratching my head as to what to think of it).
There aren't that many anime shows that have it's incongruous
sci-fi fan tribute gird up those balls 'cause we're going for a thrill
ride by the seat of our pants feel. It takes the conventions, the stuff
that caught our attentions, the stuff we dream of, and throws them
together and has a grand time mucking in the stuff that spews forth.
The thing with Gunbuster is that it makes no pretenses about
it's plot. The veil between the viewer and the creator is thinner than in
other shows. Sometimes, the creators' collective heads peek out and give
the audience one big collective wink. To top it off, the characters are
lovable and sympathetic despite and because their little puppet strings
show up at the frayed edges.
Now for the show, it makes you cry, laugh, and most of all think.
It's one of the best depictions of time dilation effects I've ever seen.
The ending made me grin like a fool for the next couple of days,
convinced I had something nobody else around me had.
>Evangelion I find just interesting enough to pay some atention to. Again,
>though I don't see the Big Deal.
No Big Deal in my opinion. If you want revelations, pick up the
Bible, Qoran, Torah, Rig Veda, something by Depek Chopra, some Zen book,
Lao Tsu, etc. read 'em, sleep with 'em, juggle 'em for three to six days
without food and wait for holy vision.
If you want a cool little story that'll make you think and help
you pass some of those pesky hours you find yourself burdened with and
have nothing to do but twiddle your thumbs, the Evangelion is for you!
>: Oops. That's HADES PROJECT ZEORYMER. I'll try again.
>
>This comparsion struck me as well - particularly since I like Zeorymer a lot.
You like Zeorymer, but don't like Gunbuster... Ah... You seem to
like simple action oriented plots that move you (treadmill-like) to a
definite ending set about and hinted at from the very beginning. I
honestly doubt you will like Evangelion.
>I guess it's just a matter of certain ideas, characters, and images
>resonating with some people and not with others. Conty and I like a lot
>of the same things (Giant Robo for instance), but he's really into Evangelion
>and I'm not really... Taste is mysterious...
Not really, different people like the same thing for different
reasons. Once you get a person to explain his/hers like/dislikes (trust
me, to say that you don't have to pay them to get them to do this is an
understatement) you'll see it's actually very simple.
-M.
(rationalize this!)
Mayeen Alam
Sean Wilson <S.Wi...@wlv.ac.uk> wrote:
>I just read youre bit on Evagelion , and think you're right ...
>Gunbuster wasnt that good , and the new shows seem to be a bit too
>familiar for they're own good..
Haven't seen Macross Plus have you? As for Gunbuster not being
good... Grrrr... <gnash> <gnash> See me prev. post in this thread for a
more fleshed out response.
>The thing you have to remember is , that to many kids this is original..
>The ones that missed the Gundam/Macross sagas...
>And japanese producers know its popular , so they keep on making
>'similar shows'
Errr... that's partially the reason. In one form or other,
everyone loves retelling the stories that affected them the most when
they were growing up.
I think Evangelion is fairly origional. Giant Robot is in itself
a cliche. Gundam and Macross were rehashing some cliches when they were
made. I dunno what was *the* origional Giant Robot anime, but I've seen
(more like suffered through) Mazinger-Z. If you want cliches that make
your grandaddies of Macross and Gundam look rehashed, take a look at this
one.
BTW I consider myself a kid ^_^;;
>What you have to say is relevant for us 'real', 'mature', 'old school'
>fans but will leave the younger fans betrayed and confused..
Errr... uh huh.. Has this particular 'mature' 'old school' fan
seen Goshogun, God Mars, Grandizer, et al.?
(haven't seen Getta Robo, or Ideon though... Okay so I only saw
bits of the above... not the whole collection... Mostly bored me out of
my skull).
I wasn't betrayed or confused. I just thought the reasons he had
for disliking the show were kind of silly, and if that's the way he
really feels, should preclude him from liking about 90% of anime out
there and almost all of the Giant Robot genre.
>Thanks , Sean
>
-M.
(Why did they let that girl even sit in that robot in Mazinger-Z? Doesn't
it cost money to build a robot?)
Samuel Crider
: You like Zeorymer, but don't like Gunbuster... Ah... You seem to
: like simple action oriented plots that move you (treadmill-like) to a
: definite ending set about and hinted at from the very beginning. I
: honestly doubt you will like Evangelion.
Could it be that there are ideas and themes in Zeorymer that don't appeal
to you just as what's in early Evangelion or Gunbuster didn't excite me?
: Once you get a person to explain his/hers like/dislikes (trust
: me, to say that you don't have to pay them to get them to do this is an
: understatement) you'll see it's actually very simple.
Simple that is if one is in a hurry to judge and classify the taste of
somebody else. I could say about you exactly what you said about me by
saying "You like Gunbuster, but don't like Zeorymer" with the exact same
words. And neither of us would be right.
Here's a test:
Does your system predict that I prefer Gundam 0083 or 0080?
That I like Urusei Yatsura or Urotsukidoji?
That I like Bubblegum Crisis or Armitage III?
--
Samuel "Dr.Allosaurus" Crider
beneath the world
allo...@mcs.net
http://www.mcs.net/~allosaur/home.html
M.R. Opel
-snip- much criticism of Evangelion deleted -snip-
In my opinion, and in the opinion of many LONG time anime fans I've talked
to, Eva is the best new anime to come out in years. Heck, to find storytelling
so good in a TV show, you'd probably have to go back to Future Boy Conan. The
plot and the characters are developed with a skill nothing short of exquisite,
and the whole production absolutely oozes Anno's creative fire. And maybe
that's what bothers some people about it - Eva is not anime created for the
toy companies or even (to some extent) for the audience... it was done because
Anno felt he had a story to tell. And so it has characters who are quiet
stoics or morose adolescents, and maybe not that likeable at first. And so
some of the episodes (18 & 19) are unpleasant or even painful to watch. And
so too I have a hard time recalling the last time I was so exited about anime.
Well, I guess my babbling won't convince anyone: watch the anime. If you
skip Eva because you can't stand the occasional Ultraman reference or a male
lead who ISN'T a happy-go-lucky letch, I think you're missing out. There has
never been a show like Neon Genesis Evangelion before, and there never will be
again.
-Matthew Opel
http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~mro93001
mad...@ottawa.net
>No, the climax usually is. You know, that part at the end where the plot
>draws to a head?
That would be like reading a book, and, uh huh, uh huh,
uhuhuh, like, books, like uh-huh, huh, suck!
>*NO*! You only do that when you don't expect anything on the show to
>ever change. (Like, say, Ranma 1/2.)
I hate that. I far perfer a sotry with a begining, a middle
and an end. If that means killing some characters or having
them undergo major personality changes, that's fine, as long
as it's born from inspiration.
>That IS true. The Hook. Provide a reason for the viewer to keep watching.
>In my case, it was the *intense* fight scene from #2, which worked as a
>promise of things to come.
I've said it before and have been beaten over the head with
it time and again, but I still think DNA2 (1st series) had
the best hooks :)
As for the toy-marketing pap we're exposed to in NA, there's
virtually no point in tuning in next week (or next day, as
wise televsion execs know the kiddies who watch cartoons
have the attention spans of 2-year-olds with ADD--the
kiddies who watch *their* cartoons, that is :))
>1.5. You already saw 1 and 2.
Give me half an excuse and I'll watch it until well after my
grip on sanity begins to fray :)
>This is exactly what Anno set out to do. And 23 episodes later,
>I can only say he's succeeded beyond my wildest expectations.
Agreed, whole-hartedly. When I first heard about Eva, and
how good it was supposed to be, I was skeptical (giant
robots have been *done*), but when I saw it, I loved it.
>Sure, some of the trappings seem familiar from other shows, but as you said
>the genre as a whole has been done to death. Where Anno takes this setting
>is what makes the show so awesome...
Yep. And yet another Tokyo; you'd think all the alternative
Tokyos would have been all thought of by now :)
I like the Angels. Monsters, sure, but man are they
powerfull. Thinking back on the battles, you wonder how the
hell the good-guys manage to win. But hey, I'm not
complaining :)
Mark David | "I make no apologies for
mad...@ottawa.net | being a rabid ideologue."
(PGP key available upon request) | -- Me
mad...@ottawa.net
>On the OTHER HAND, how could you NOT know that ANIME builds on itself.
>Nothing is original. Everything is a tribute to whatever the current
>crop of animators loved when they were born as otakus. And Gainax is the
>PRIME otaku company, with designers and illustrators who put their souls
>into what they create. We go from Yamato (space Battleship) to Macross
>(a robot so big its arms are battleships). That sort of thing.
And that's not a bad thing. If it's born from inspiration
and raised by people who love it, it will turn out to be
worth watching. There's nothing wrong, or lazy, about
getting excited over someone else's work and building off it
with adding your own inspirations.
And Eva is *worth watching*, giant robots and all!
Something we will sadly never see in NA extended toy
commercials.
>If you are really serious about missing the show, then off to hades with
>you. There WON'T be another show like this in the 90s.
No way. The people who don't watch Eva are just old scare
stories told by mothers to frighten children into bed with.
No one purposely misses Eva <shudder>.
Mayeen Alam
Samuel Crider <allo...@MCS.COM> wrote:
>Mayeen Alam (ma...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: You like Zeorymer, but don't like Gunbuster... Ah... You seem to
>: like simple action oriented plots that move you (treadmill-like) to a
>: definite ending set about and hinted at from the very beginning. I
>: honestly doubt you will like Evangelion.
>
>Could it be that there are ideas and themes in Zeorymer that don't appeal
>to you just as what's in early Evangelion or Gunbuster didn't excite me?
Actually, I did like Zeorymer. I like Gunbuster a whole lot more,
but that hardly means I didn't like Zeorymer.
BTW Yes, if I didn't make it clear earlier, it's my fault: It
*is* a matter of taste.
>: Once you get a person to explain his/hers like/dislikes (trust
>: me, to say that you don't have to pay them to get them to do this is an
>: understatement) you'll see it's actually very simple.
>
>Simple that is if one is in a hurry to judge and classify the taste of
>somebody else. I could say about you exactly what you said about me by
>saying "You like Gunbuster, but don't like Zeorymer" with the exact same
>words. And neither of us would be right.
I think you misconstrued what I was saying a little bit. I'm
trying to say that it's not hard to understand why a person likes
something once you ask them why. I'm trying to say that there is no
formula to what a person will or will not like, but that doesn't mean
that their tastes are mysterious.
>Here's a test:
>Does your system predict that I prefer Gundam 0083 or 0080?
>That I like Urusei Yatsura or Urotsukidoji?
>That I like Bubblegum Crisis or Armitage III?
I was trying to say the exact opposite (i.e. I don't have a
system. I don't need a system. The way to find out what a person likes is
to ask them! Then it becomes very simple! ^_^). Hmmm... I like tests
though.... Lessee... Gundam 0083, UY, and Armitage III?
No system BTW... Just guesses. I like Gundam 0080, UY, and BGC. I
*am* assuming you didn't imply "both" or "all" in those choices and did a
simple one versus another down the list (otherwise they would be trick
questions ne?:).
-M.
(there comes a time in every man's life when he must make a choice...)
Mayeen Alam
>Mayeen Alam (ma...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>:: You like Zeorymer, but don't like Gunbuster... Ah... You seem to
>:: like simple action oriented plots that move you (treadmill-like) to a
>:: definite ending set about and hinted at from the very beginning. I
>:: honestly doubt you will like Evangelion.
>
>: I think you misconstrued what I was saying a little bit. I'm
>: something once you ask them why. I'm trying to say that there is no
>: formula to what a person will or will not like, but that doesn't mean
>: that their tastes are mysterious.
>
>something and using that to *predict* me feelings about Evangelion. Your
>what and why are quite wrong and my negative 1st reaction to Eva was *because*
>I felt that was going to be just another hyped giant robot
>show (something I'm looking forward to being proved wrong about).
Ummm... again I assert you misconstrued my statement. However,
looking at the statement, I can see that it could be easily misconstrued.
I kind of played it fast and loose with my phrasing. I am sorry. That's
not what I meant.
>I haven't in this post explainned why I like Zeorymer or why I think there's
>more going on in it than you give it credit for -- but my simply mentioning
>it is enough for you to pass judgement on my tastes.
Again, sorry. What there was in those words was not in my heart.
>: >Here's a test:
>: >Does your system predict that I prefer Gundam 0083 or 0080?
>: >That I like Urusei Yatsura or Urotsukidoji?
>: >That I like Bubblegum Crisis or Armitage III?
>
>: I was trying to say the exact opposite (i.e. I don't have a
>: system. I don't need a system. The way to find out what a person likes is
>: to ask them! Then it becomes very simple! ^_^). Hmmm... I like tests
>: though.... Lessee... Gundam 0083, UY, and Armitage III?
>
>1)0080 (the main characters in 0083 annoy me too much)
>2) As you suspected this was a trick question. I like both of them.
>3) I was trying to be too "zen" in this one. I don't like either. I should
>have made it a straight question and said "Bubblegum Crisis or Sailor Moon"
>(answer: Sailor Moon).
>
>Someone can explain in great detail why he or she likes something and
>even if one understands it all, it can be still mysterious (mysterious
>does not equal inexplicable) because a person's tastes are shaped
>by their entire life. Why Ataru Moroboshi is one of my heros is not something
>I can easily put into words... My experience is that likes and dislikes
>are anything but simple.
I maintain they are. But then, I've always been a little Zen
about the whole thing so what I accept as simple, you consider
complicated for the percieved mystery. The world was not built by
rationales, the world built rationales. We have yet to find out the
underpinnings of the mind, but I doubt we are ruled by logic gates.
We are looking at the same thing in different ways.
-M.
(May the teleologists save my soul!)
Suou-Kun
Peter R. Payne
> >To put it bluntly, EVANGELION is Yet Another Giant Robot Show. The
> >plot could be done with a template:
> [again, setup and about 1/10 (if that) of Evangelion plot deleted.]
Even if it is, the high quality and production standards and the love
the creators have of fans and true otaku-hood, it is worth watching. It
is no affront to the original poster if this show is made -- just don't
watch it.
> As for Gunbuster, I really can't understand how you can say
> Gunbuster isn't up to spec. What Giant Robot show is better? Gundam?
Gunbuster is a wonderful show. Dubbing it (Robotech III: Not Necessarily
the Sentinels), thus watching it scene by scene, made me respect it
totally.
> >Misato was the one saving grace of the show. I enjoyed her. But it
> >wasn't enough.
The original poster is shallow. For someone so shallow to whine that he
wants more depth is really annoying. Mujun shiteiru, omae ha.
> Not in certain aspects you haven't. It's part rehash. But the
> rehash ain't painful, and boring. The rest of it is definately worth
> seeing.
It's GENRE. You know? Like how ALL SF MOVIES in the WORLD owe a part of
themselves to 2001, Soylent Green (dakke?), and Star Wars (all of which
were done by Dykstra, I believe). All sit-coms owe a part of themselves
to The Honeymooners. Anime is totally genre-driven, that not a BUG it's
a FEATURE.
You don't understand anything. Show me some completely original anime --
just show me. Even HASHIRE MELOS and UMI GA KIKOERU were based on novels
first.
Mayeen Alam
Peter R. Payne <sei...@mail.wind.co.jp> wrote:
>Mayeen Alam <ma...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> >To put it bluntly, EVANGELION is Yet Another Giant Robot Show. The
>> >plot could be done with a template:
>> [again, setup and about 1/10 (if that) of Evangelion plot deleted.]
>
>Even if it is, the high quality and production standards and the love
>the creators have of fans and true otaku-hood, it is worth watching. It
>is no affront to the original poster if this show is made -- just don't
>watch it.
>
>> As for Gunbuster, I really can't understand how you can say
>> Gunbuster isn't up to spec. What Giant Robot show is better? Gundam?
>
>Gunbuster is a wonderful show. Dubbing it (Robotech III: Not Necessarily
>the Sentinels), thus watching it scene by scene, made me respect it
>totally.
>
>> >Misato was the one saving grace of the show. I enjoyed her. But it
>> >wasn't enough.
>
>The original poster is shallow. For someone so shallow to whine that he
>wants more depth is really annoying. Mujun shiteiru, omae ha.
I didn't quite understand the Japanese statement (my Japanese is
fairly limited...). My guess (Mu often stands for nothing...) is 'you're not
giving anything'....?
No clue. As for shallowness, that's too severe a judgement to
place on someone I have never met in person.
>> Not in certain aspects you haven't. It's part rehash. But the
>> rehash ain't painful, and boring. The rest of it is definately worth
>> seeing.
>
>It's GENRE. You know? Like how ALL SF MOVIES in the WORLD owe a part of
I know.
>themselves to 2001, Soylent Green (dakke?), and Star Wars (all of which
>were done by Dykstra, I believe). All sit-coms owe a part of themselves
>to The Honeymooners. Anime is totally genre-driven, that not a BUG it's
>a FEATURE.
I agree. There are some things that are worth getting familiar
with. (I have such a way of putting things don't I? I seem to be pissing
off a few people who don't quite like the way I put things though...)
>You don't understand anything. Show me some completely original anime --
>just show me. Even HASHIRE MELOS and UMI GA KIKOERU were based on novels
>first.
I don't understand anything? The origional poster doesn't
understand anything? Anybody who reads this article doesn't understand
anything? (just a lil' confused 'bout who'all you were talkin' 'bout)
Hmmm... Off the top of my head: Angel's Egg. Slight possibility:
E'Tranger. Barely squeeking in if you don't count live action movies:
Wings of Honneamis. Dunno if it's been done before, but certainly knocked
me on my fanny: Prefectural Defense Force (probably... wait, very most
probably not origional). I'm sure I forgot something...
-M.
(why don't you just throw a bunch of names up there and see if one will
stick?)
Thane Walkup
>I like the Angels. Monsters, sure, but man are they
>powerfull. Thinking back on the battles, you wonder how the
>hell the good-guys manage to win. But hey, I'm not
>complaining :)
How sure are you that the good guys are the ones who win? [Evil
cackling heard in the background...]
Fnord.
*****************************************************************************
* *
* Founder of the Church of the One Righteous Spatula! *
* *
* "Life's tough, then you die, then they put you in a hole in the ground, *
* then they throw dirt in your face, then the worms eat you. Be glad it *
* happens in that order." - Solomon Short *
* *
* inT...@oz.net - inThane O'Neill Walkup, Spearman *
* *
*****************************************************************************
Geoffrey Scott
: In article <4i407d$9...@dfw-ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>,
: Ryan Mathews <math...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: >To this day, I still stand in a very small minority, or perhaps alone,
: >in considering GUNBUSTER to be a poorly-written piece of tripe. Well,
: >folks, it looks like history is about to repeat itself, because I
: >checked out NEON GENESIS EVANGELION, and man, I was *not* impressed.
: I would be lying if I said that Gunbuster was perfect or even a
: masterpiece in the way of Dostoevsky. But to say that it was a poorly
: written piece of tripe requires something of a difference in taste and
: ability to comprehend a story that I am at a loss to even empathise with.
: I'd say you have high standards that extremely few anime shows
: (and certainly no Giant Robot shows) can live up to.
The problem (IMHO) with Gunbuster is the people who made it couldn't
decide if they wanted to do a comedic parody/farce of your typical mecha
show, or a straight soul wrenching drama/mecha action show, so they did
both, resulting in a bit of a mess. If they had stuck to one format or
another, the OAV series would have kicked major butt. As it stands now,
it's just a marginal thumbs up for me.
Geo
Mayeen Alam
Actually, from what I gather, that was the intent all along. I
think the two contrasting (possibly for some people irreconsilable)
differences in the thrust of the series is what charmed me most of all.
Sorta a serious yet not pretentious story.
In fact you put the exact things that make the series stand out
for me apart from the rest as the things you didn't like about the show!
-M.
(it's all a matter of taste... Did you know taste buds are replaced every
couple of weeks or so? Hmmm...)