Modelling questions grab-bag.
George Caswell
(Reading through Zaku II kai scratchbuild article again..)
You know what gets me about these Suku Suku Scratch articles? It's not
just that they can do all this stuff, it's not just that they can do all this
stuff consistently, but usually they even do it two or three different ways to
demonstrate the available techniques. <sigh>
Now for the grab-bag:
- I think I asked this before and forgot: how long does Mr. Color need to dry
before adding another coat?
- Where can I buy styrene rod and tubing in sizes that will fit conveniently
with polycaps? How about telescoping styrene tubing? (Or is it all too
thick-walled?)
- What exactly would happen if Mr. Color were applied over an enamel? Offhand
I'd guess the lacquer solvent would weaken the enamel underneath, the lacquer
would harden and later chip away as areas of enamel break down -- I had to
remove enamel from my model and certainly missed some spots, so I'm a bit
concerned.
- Another one that's probably been addressed: Any special considerations when
preparing resin parts for display? I've never painted resin parts before.
With luck my Zaku will be displayable in time for Granite-Con.. but I
won't have time to finish everything. :(
---GEC
Projects page: http://home.maine.rr.com/tetsujin/
(M-x depeche-mode)
"I am but the humble student, who hopes one day to snatch the resin-cast
pebble from the master's fully articulated hand."
Giuliano Moschini
>
> (Reading through Zaku II kai scratchbuild article again..)
>
> You know what gets me about these Suku Suku Scratch articles? It's not
> just that they can do all this stuff, it's not just that they can do all this
> stuff consistently, but usually they even do it two or three different ways to
> demonstrate the available techniques. <sigh>
>
> Now for the grab-bag:
> - I think I asked this before and forgot: how long does Mr. Color need to dry
> before adding another coat?
Mr. Color dries fast, and I don't think there's really a re-coat time.
I've sprayed parts, watched them dry to a touch in seconds, and re-coated them within minutes.
After you're done, however, letting the parts sit for a few hours or overnight is always a good idea, to let the paint fully cure.
Or even longer, if you're patient.
> - Where can I buy styrene rod and tubing in sizes that will fit conveniently
> with polycaps? How about telescoping styrene tubing? (Or is it all too
> thick-walled?)
> - What exactly would happen if Mr. Color were applied over an enamel? Offhand
> I'd guess the lacquer solvent would weaken the enamel underneath, the lacquer
> would harden and later chip away as areas of enamel break down -- I had to
> remove enamel from my model and certainly missed some spots, so I'm a bit
> concerned.
I believe the lacquer paint won't stick to the enamel, so you'd eventually get sections of paint lifting off.
The TLA (Three Letter Acronym) for applying different types of paint is:
LEA: Lacquers first, Enamels second, Acrylics last.
Enamels work well on top of lacquers for washes because the solvent isn't strong enough to eat into the lacquer coat.
> - Another one that's probably been addressed: Any special considerations when
> preparing resin parts for display? I've never painted resin parts before.
Lots of washing and scrubbing before priming and painting them.
Mix a little dish of Ajax-type cleaning powder, and some dish soap, and scrub with a toothbrush, especially in crevices.
Rinse and let air dry, or wipe with a clean lint-free tack cloth (not tissues!).
I've found that wiping all the surfaces with lacquer thinner (automotive or Mr. Thinner) helps immensely for getting rid of all
remaining release agents or oils. Just brush on with a paintbrush, scrub in corners, and let dry. Otherwise you'll have lacquer
paint that doesn't stick in sections, especially in rough crevices.
Resin is all but immune to strong solvents, so you shouldn't have much to worry about.
Prime the parts with Mr. Resin Primer if you have it, or Surfacer 1000 will do the trick as a substitute.
Thin the Primer/Surfacer out more than you would with paint, and lay it on in wet coats, letting it dry between re-coats.
If the primer no longer looks wet on the part, you can re-coat.
If the primer surface is rough, you may want to wet-sand with a high grade paper (2000+, 3000+ is best).
Rinse after wet-sanding, and let air dry.
George Caswell
> > - I think I asked this before and forgot: how long does Mr. Color need to dry
> > before adding another coat?
>
> Mr. Color dries fast, and I don't think there's really a re-coat time.
>
> I've sprayed parts, watched them dry to a touch in seconds, and re-coated them within minutes.
>
> After you're done, however, letting the parts sit for a few hours or overnight is always a good idea, to let the paint fully cure.
> Or even longer, if you're patient.
>
That's good. I don't have many overnights left, hence the question. :)
How about masking? Can I apply masking tape (Tamiya, to be exact) to a part
that's been Mr.Color painted minutes or hours earlier?
> > - What exactly would happen if Mr. Color were applied over an enamel? Offhand
> > I'd guess the lacquer solvent would weaken the enamel underneath, the lacquer
> > would harden and later chip away as areas of enamel break down -- I had to
> > remove enamel from my model and certainly missed some spots, so I'm a bit
> > concerned.
>
> I believe the lacquer paint won't stick to the enamel, so you'd eventually get sections of paint lifting off.
>
> The TLA (Three Letter Acronym) for applying different types of paint is:
>
> LEA: Lacquers first, Enamels second, Acrylics last.
>
> Enamels work well on top of lacquers for washes because the solvent isn't strong enough to eat into the lacquer coat.
>
Yah. Unfortunately I had the paint job for the model pretty much completed
with Model Master enamels (picked out a nice color scheme from off-the-shelf
military flats), but then I decided to go ahead with a bunch more
structural changes, and I cut a big hole in the chest for the cockpit, and all
that handling and the occasional cut really murdered the paint job. Then I
realized that if I wanted to be ready for Granite-Con, I'd need to take
advantage of Mr. Color's speed and try to mix equivalent colors. I'd sort of
suspected enamels (rather than acrylics) might work for washes over Mr. Color,
but I've never tried it, this is actually the first kit I'll have completed
with Mr. Color. You're definately getting an acknowledgement when I display
the model or post photos online.
> > - Another one that's probably been addressed: Any special considerations when
> > preparing resin parts for display? I've never painted resin parts before.
>
> Lots of washing and scrubbing before priming and painting them.
>
> Mix a little dish of Ajax-type cleaning powder, and some dish soap, and
> scrub with a toothbrush, especially in crevices.
>
> Rinse and let air dry, or wipe with a clean lint-free tack cloth (not
> tissues!).
>
I bought a tack cloth in a craft store once, and had to throw it away
because it left tack on everything and was difficult to work with... Do these
deposits cause problems? Are there particular types of tack cloth I ought to
look for?
A couple new questions for the grab bag:
- I'd heard cotton swabs were good for cleaning the model surface after a
wash.. I used them with lacquer thinner to clean off the old enamel paint
(mistake) and now have hairs all over the place. Any good ways of dealing
with that?
- Any good recommendations for painting machinery, like the leg internals on
MG kits?
Giuliano Moschini
>
> > > - I think I asked this before and forgot: how long does Mr. Color need to dry
> > > before adding another coat?
> >
> > Mr. Color dries fast, and I don't think there's really a re-coat time.
> >
> > I've sprayed parts, watched them dry to a touch in seconds, and re-coated them within minutes.
> >
> > After you're done, however, letting the parts sit for a few hours or overnight is always a good idea, to let the paint fully
cure.
> > Or even longer, if you're patient.
> >
> That's good. I don't have many overnights left, hence the question. :)
> How about masking? Can I apply masking tape (Tamiya, to be exact) to a part
> that's been Mr.Color painted minutes or hours earlier?
I haven't done much in the way of masking yet, but I would probably let the paint sit there for an hour before masking.
Apply the masking tape, and lightly burnish down the edges for a sharp separation line.
Spray your next coat(s) of paint, and let it dry for an hour or so.
Peel off the masking tape by peeling it *away* from the new paint, not towards it, and do it slowly.
The longer the masking tape sits on the paint, the greater the chance that it will lift paint, so for best results, mask, paint, and
remove within a 6-12 hour period of time.
YMMV, and generally there's little harm in letting a masked part sit overnight or longer, but masking products are intended to be
temporarily applied, so the less time they sit on the paint, the better.
> > > - What exactly would happen if Mr. Color were applied over an enamel? Offhand
> > > I'd guess the lacquer solvent would weaken the enamel underneath, the lacquer
> > > would harden and later chip away as areas of enamel break down -- I had to
> > > remove enamel from my model and certainly missed some spots, so I'm a bit
> > > concerned.
> >
> > I believe the lacquer paint won't stick to the enamel, so you'd eventually get sections of paint lifting off.
> >
> > The TLA (Three Letter Acronym) for applying different types of paint is:
> >
> > LEA: Lacquers first, Enamels second, Acrylics last.
> >
> > Enamels work well on top of lacquers for washes because the solvent isn't strong enough to eat into the lacquer coat.
> >
> Yah. Unfortunately I had the paint job for the model pretty much completed
> with Model Master enamels (picked out a nice color scheme from off-the-shelf
> military flats), but then I decided to go ahead with a bunch more
> structural changes, and I cut a big hole in the chest for the cockpit, and all
> that handling and the occasional cut really murdered the paint job. Then I
> realized that if I wanted to be ready for Granite-Con, I'd need to take
> advantage of Mr. Color's speed and try to mix equivalent colors. I'd sort of
> suspected enamels (rather than acrylics) might work for washes over Mr. Color,
> but I've never tried it, this is actually the first kit I'll have completed
> with Mr. Color. You're definately getting an acknowledgement when I display
> the model or post photos online.
Thank you! ^_^
I'll be looking forward to seeing how your kit looks at Granite-Con.
Stop by my table when you get a chance... :-)
I'd like to hear your first impressions of using Mr. Color, but I'd be especially interested in hearing of any difficulties you may
have run into using it.
> > > - Another one that's probably been addressed: Any special considerations when
> > > preparing resin parts for display? I've never painted resin parts before.
> >
> > Lots of washing and scrubbing before priming and painting them.
> >
> > Mix a little dish of Ajax-type cleaning powder, and some dish soap, and
> > scrub with a toothbrush, especially in crevices.
> >
> > Rinse and let air dry, or wipe with a clean lint-free tack cloth (not
> > tissues!).
> >
> I bought a tack cloth in a craft store once, and had to throw it away
> because it left tack on everything and was difficult to work with... Do these
> deposits cause problems? Are there particular types of tack cloth I ought to
> look for?
Yes, Deposits = Bad.
I generally let the parts air dry, but I brought up the idea of the tack-free cloth.. if it doesn't leave any deposits, then it
should work OK.
> A couple new questions for the grab bag:
> - I'd heard cotton swabs were good for cleaning the model surface after a
> wash.. I used them with lacquer thinner to clean off the old enamel paint
> (mistake) and now have hairs all over the place. Any good ways of dealing
> with that?
As for cleaning up a wash, I'm not sure, really.
Whenever I need to strip my resin parts, I use a plastic paint bucket (from Home Depot), some Automotive Lacquer thinner, an
eyedropper, and a flat paintbrush.
The paintbrushes I've gotten are cheap: 3-packs from A.C. Moore, with red sable bristles, for about $1.50.
They're perfect for general-purpose tasks such as these.
I use the eyedropper to wash the part with thinner, and use the brush to scrub off all the paint/primer.
> - Any good recommendations for painting machinery, like the leg internals on
> MG kits?
Haven't done any of those yet, but my thought would be to spray it some kind of gray metallic color, such as a gunmetal, and then
wash and drybrush with other colors, such as a darker gray or black, and maybe some silver..
-Giuliano
George Caswell
> > Yah. Unfortunately I had the paint job for the model pretty much completed
> > with Model Master enamels (picked out a nice color scheme from off-the-shelf
> > military flats), but then I decided to go ahead with a bunch more
> > structural changes, and I cut a big hole in the chest for the cockpit, and all
> > that handling and the occasional cut really murdered the paint job. Then I
> > realized that if I wanted to be ready for Granite-Con, I'd need to take
> > advantage of Mr. Color's speed and try to mix equivalent colors. I'd sort of
> > suspected enamels (rather than acrylics) might work for washes over Mr. Color,
> > but I've never tried it, this is actually the first kit I'll have completed
> > with Mr. Color. You're definately getting an acknowledgement when I display
> > the model or post photos online.
>
> Thank you! ^_^
>
> I'll be looking forward to seeing how your kit looks at Granite-Con.
>
> Stop by my table when you get a chance... :-)
>
Heh, with the way this model's going, I may need to pick up more supplies
at your table so I can finish the Zaku at the show. :) Or at least my
earlier prediction, that I'd be dull-coating it shortly before the show,
sounds very credible, especially if I want to squeeze in a decal application
sometime. Hopefully it'll be worth looking at. If the Great Haro gives His
blessing over the weekend I may even finish the cockpit.
> I'd like to hear your first impressions of using Mr. Color, but I'd be especially interested in hearing of any difficulties you may
> have run into using it.
>
Tough to say - every model I've finished since I took up Gundam stuff has
been a whole new bag of techniques and materials.. since I finished Shen Long
over a year ago I've gotten a better airbrush, a spray booth, a dedicated work
area, and stopped using the small-bottle Testors enamels which I previously
used exclusively... But so far it's been very well-behaved.
One thing that does stick out in my mind is that it's very hard paint to
mix - that is, stirring it tends to produce swirls rather than new colors.
Probably those Tamiya stir sticks would help there, my solution was to put a
loop on the end of a piece of thick flower wire and stir with that. Plus I
don't think I've got the swing of airbrushing Mr. Color yet, not sure if
it's not thinned enough, or if some of that retarder would help, or if it's my
technique, or what...
> > > Rinse and let air dry, or wipe with a clean lint-free tack cloth (not
> > > tissues!).
> > >
> > I bought a tack cloth in a craft store once, and had to throw it away
> > because it left tack on everything and was difficult to work with... Do these
> > deposits cause problems? Are there particular types of tack cloth I ought to
> > look for?
>
> Yes, Deposits = Bad.
>
How do I not get deposits when using a tack cloth, then? Or is the idea to
use a tack cloth to remove debris, then clean off the tack deposits?
> > A couple new questions for the grab bag:
> > - I'd heard cotton swabs were good for cleaning the model surface after a
> > wash.. I used them with lacquer thinner to clean off the old enamel paint
> > (mistake) and now have hairs all over the place. Any good ways of dealing
> > with that?
>
> As for cleaning up a wash, I'm not sure, really.
>
(In case I was too ambiguous: I was referring to acrylic washes for panel
line effects - there was an article in FSM. The clean-up I did with the
Q-tips and Mr. Color Thinner was the removal of the old paint job on the
styrene parts, which was a perfectly good paint job apart from being beat up
from handling and structural changes, and apart from the fact that I needed to
paint new coats with Mr. Color to save time... and apart from the fact that
it wasn't a very durable finish, either...)
The best plan I've come up with to fix this cotton-hair situation is to
just prime over it and sand it (the hair) off. Hopefully it won't continue to
turn up in any visible places on the model.
> > - Any good recommendations for painting machinery, like the leg internals on
> > MG kits?
>
> Haven't done any of those yet, but my thought would be to spray it some kind of gray metallic color, such as a gunmetal, and then
> wash and drybrush with other colors, such as a darker gray or black, and maybe some silver..
>
Ooh, that sounds good. Thanks!
Giuliano Moschini
"George Caswell" <tets...@maine.rr.com> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.3.96.101101...@adamant.homeworlds.net...
What's happening when you try to airbrush it?
> > > > Rinse and let air dry, or wipe with a clean lint-free tack cloth (not
> > > > tissues!).
> > > >
> > > I bought a tack cloth in a craft store once, and had to throw it away
> > > because it left tack on everything and was difficult to work with... Do these
> > > deposits cause problems? Are there particular types of tack cloth I ought to
> > > look for?
> >
> > Yes, Deposits = Bad.
> >
> How do I not get deposits when using a tack cloth, then? Or is the idea to
> use a tack cloth to remove debris, then clean off the tack deposits?
If memory serves me, there are "lint-free" cloths out there that aren't supposed to leave deposits.
Something like this, perhaps:
http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/80933.html
You may find something similar at an automotive supply shop, around the paints section perhaps.
> > > A couple new questions for the grab bag:
> > > - I'd heard cotton swabs were good for cleaning the model surface after a
> > > wash.. I used them with lacquer thinner to clean off the old enamel paint
> > > (mistake) and now have hairs all over the place. Any good ways of dealing
> > > with that?
> >
> > As for cleaning up a wash, I'm not sure, really.
> >
> (In case I was too ambiguous: I was referring to acrylic washes for panel
> line effects - there was an article in FSM. The clean-up I did with the
> Q-tips and Mr. Color Thinner was the removal of the old paint job on the
> styrene parts, which was a perfectly good paint job apart from being beat up
> from handling and structural changes, and apart from the fact that I needed to
> paint new coats with Mr. Color to save time... and apart from the fact that
> it wasn't a very durable finish, either...)
>
> The best plan I've come up with to fix this cotton-hair situation is to
> just prime over it and sand it (the hair) off. Hopefully it won't continue to
> turn up in any visible places on the model.
>
> > > - Any good recommendations for painting machinery, like the leg internals on
> > > MG kits?
> >
> > Haven't done any of those yet, but my thought would be to spray it some kind of gray metallic color, such as a gunmetal, and
then
> > wash and drybrush with other colors, such as a darker gray or black, and maybe some silver..
> >
> Ooh, that sounds good. Thanks!
I think I recall Mark Wilson saying something about a "perfect color" for MG kit internals..
Here's the Google:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=rec.arts.anime.models+%22Mark+Wilson%22+MG+internal+color&hl=en&rnum=1&selm=13hlgtgphqd5bil0j540kb
jsfdgd1d8upu%404ax.com
The paint he was talking about is Floquil's Railroad Color "Graphite"... I'm not sure if that was an enamel or an acrylic..
I'll see if I can come up with something suitable from the Mr. Color line..
-Giuliano
Giuliano Moschini
C028, Metallic Gloss Steel, none in stock.
I think it's a metallic black in color.
http://www.moschini.org/modelshop/scripts/productbrowser.asp?PartNumber=C028
C061, Metallic Burnt Iron, 1 in stock.
This one's definitely a dark gray/black, and it's got that metallic look to it.
http://www.moschini.org/modelshop/scripts/productbrowser.asp?PartNumber=C061
C078, Metallic Gloss Black, none in stock.
Pure black metallic.
http://www.moschini.org/modelshop/scripts/productbrowser.asp?PartNumber=C078
C061, Burnt Iron, might do the trick.
-Giuliano
"Giuliano Moschini" <giul...@moschini.org> wrote in message news:9iGx7.358$RL6....@news.cpqcorp.net...
George Caswell
> > One thing that does stick out in my mind is that it's very hard paint to
> > mix - that is, stirring it tends to produce swirls rather than new colors.
> > Probably those Tamiya stir sticks would help there, my solution was to put a
> > loop on the end of a piece of thick flower wire and stir with that. Plus I
> > don't think I've got the swing of airbrushing Mr. Color yet, not sure if
> > it's not thinned enough, or if some of that retarder would help, or if it's my
> > technique, or what...
>
> What's happening when you try to airbrush it?
>
Nothing too serious, spray is more granular than I'd expect.
Giuliano Moschini
> >
> >
> Nothing too serious, spray is more granular than I'd expect.
I think I ran into a similar issue when spraying Resin Primer...
I believe the problem I was having was not letting the surface get "wet" enough with paint, essentially having the paint dry either
in mid-air, or as soon as it hit the surface.
Pulling back on the trigger to let more paint flow seemed to help, giving a nice wet coat of primer/paint.
I really thin out my primer/paint, so multiple wet coats are required to get good coverage.
I expect Mr. Retarder Mild will also help with the process, although I haven't had a chance to try it out yet.
I'm also curious as to what will happen in colder air temperatures - say, in the mid-60's - during winter.
My guess is that the paint might take a bit longer to dry in a slightly lower temperature, say, around 68 F.
Of course, I like cool weather, so that shouldn't be a problem for me. ;-)
-Giuliano
Mark Wilson
<tets...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, Giuliano Moschini wrote:
>
>> > - I think I asked this before and forgot: how long does Mr. Color need to dry
>> > before adding another coat?
>>
>> Mr. Color dries fast, and I don't think there's really a re-coat time.
>>
>> I've sprayed parts, watched them dry to a touch in seconds, and re-coated them within minutes.
>>
>> After you're done, however, letting the parts sit for a few hours or overnight is always a good idea, to let the paint fully cure.
>> Or even longer, if you're patient.
>>
> That's good. I don't have many overnights left, hence the question. :)
>How about masking? Can I apply masking tape (Tamiya, to be exact) to a part
>that's been Mr.Color painted minutes or hours earlier?
>
>> > - What exactly would happen if Mr. Color were applied over an enamel? Offhand
>> > I'd guess the lacquer solvent would weaken the enamel underneath, the lacquer
>> > would harden and later chip away as areas of enamel break down -- I had to
>> > remove enamel from my model and certainly missed some spots, so I'm a bit
>> > concerned.
>>
By the time Mr.Color hits the enamel (assuming it is airbrushed), it
has lost a lot of the volatility. It won't destroy the paint
underneath. The grip it will have is a function of the paint--it will
grip well over flat, not as well over gloss. Either way, it won't
just fall off.
> A couple new questions for the grab bag:
>- I'd heard cotton swabs were good for cleaning the model surface after a
>wash.. I used them with lacquer thinner to clean off the old enamel paint
>(mistake) and now have hairs all over the place. Any good ways of dealing
>with that?
Oh boy. Those little hairs are effectively glued into the paint
matrix now. I suggest soaking the parts in E-Z off to get the rest of
the enamel of the parts, and scrubbing with a toothbrush to dig those
cotton fibers out.
>- Any good recommendations for painting machinery, like the leg internals on
>MG kits?
Floquil Graphite.
>---GEC
>Projects page: http://home.maine.rr.com/tetsujin/
>(M-x depeche-mode)
>"I am but the humble student, who hopes one day to snatch the resin-cast
> pebble from the master's fully articulated hand."
Mark Wilson
The Sleeping Giant has awoken....
http://home.earthlink.net/~mmwilson2/
RAAM FAQ:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mmwilson2/RAAMFAQ/index.html
James C. Nevermann
> - Where can I buy styrene rod and tubing in sizes that will fit conveniently
> with polycaps? How about telescoping styrene tubing?
Plastruct has it...
--
Jim Nevermann
[usual disclaimers]