The Summer of Our Discontent
Dave Baranyi
vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when I do
get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either cloned
bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
Look at the list of anime in July and August on the "Moon Phase Anime" page
:
http://cyan.maid.to/Html/anime.shtml
And even if you go to September, ROD TV looks to be crap too.
I was thinking about getting a subscription to a ng service that carries raw
anime, but I can't see the point at this stage - why pay more for crap?
The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a response
to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year or
so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at sales
and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure, I
realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way, way
too far.
So what is my "Action plan" to survive the bishoujo overflow? I've started
to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in the
mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser discs
and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece" and
"Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from Japan
cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again ( albeit
six months after broadcast ).
Dave Baranyi
Rodrick Su
news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
Oh, you're being a bit too hard on the current crop of shows. Narutaru,
Cinderella Boy and Sumeba Miyako no Cosmos-sou Suttoko Taisen Dokkoida
are all good show. You should look for those if you can.
alan
> It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
> vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when I do
> get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
> paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either cloned
> bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
Some of us LIKE bishoujo crap. Don't forget that there's also shounen crap.
> I was thinking about getting a subscription to a ng service that carries raw
> anime, but I can't see the point at this stage - why pay more for crap?
>
> The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a response
> to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year or
> so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at sales
> and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
> sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
Sure, blame the US for all the world's problems.
>
> When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure, I
> realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way, way
> too far.
Mebbe when Japan gets out of their dam recession.
> So what is my "Action plan" to survive the bishoujo overflow? I've started
> to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in the
> mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser discs
> and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece" and
> "Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from Japan
> cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again ( albeit
> six months after broadcast ).
Maybe you should take up manga instead.
Dave Baranyi
"alan" <acf...@yahoo.do_not_spam_me.com> wrote in message
news:bf51of$38s$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
> Dave Baranyi wrote:
> > It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
> > vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when
I do
> > get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
> > paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either
cloned
> > bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
>
> Some of us LIKE bishoujo crap. Don't forget that there's also shounen
crap.
>
The shounen clone-crap came out in the Spring season. ( See my comments
posted here a few months ago.)
> > I was thinking about getting a subscription to a ng service that carries
raw
> > anime, but I can't see the point at this stage - why pay more for crap?
> >
> > The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a
response
> > to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year
or
> > so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at
sales
> > and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
> > sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
>
> Sure, blame the US for all the world's problems.
>
Hey, Hollywood set the precendent for summer brainless crap - I guess
"imitation is the sincerest form of flatery" to an extent here...
> >
> > When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure,
I
> > realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way,
way
> > too far.
>
> Mebbe when Japan gets out of their dam recession.
>
They may not - my assessment is that China is the next big economic power.
Maybe I've finally got to start to study Mandarin...
> > So what is my "Action plan" to survive the bishoujo overflow? I've
started
> > to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in
the
> > mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser
discs
> > and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece"
and
> > "Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from
Japan
> > cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again (
albeit
> > six months after broadcast ).
>
> Maybe you should take up manga instead.
>
The amount of crap manga out there boggles the mind - I'll stick to gleaning
the few "specks of gold" out of the dross oozing out of the anime world.
Cheers -
Dave Baranyi
>
>
Dave Baranyi
"Rodrick Su" <r...@tigana.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93BAC10188B...@216.40.28.74...
Narutaru looks to be just more of the same bishoujo crap - how is it
different? ( I tend to read the Japanese "official" sites - if the hype
there suggests that a given show is the s.o.c. ( same old crap ), why should
I not believe them. )
Thanks -
Dave Baranyi
D B Malmquist
>
> It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
> vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when I do
> get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
> paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either cloned
> bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
Have you looked at "GadGuard" or "Last Exile"? I suspect that
you'll appreciate the OP to "GadGuard" at a minimum, it's done
in the style of a "hot" jazz combo from the late 40s/early 50s
(I think). Also, a new season of "Twelve Kingdoms" just started.
And what about "Texhnolyze"? I watched the 1st episode, it was
too weird for casual viewing.
There's also "NaruTaru" (too soon to tell if it's good or bad)
and "Cinderalla Boy" (also too soon), neither of which are bishoujo
titles.
Also, any idea what this is?
http://www.ytv.co.jp/anime/massugu/
If it's talking dogs - no thanks.
> Look at the list of anime in July and August on the "Moon Phase Anime" page
> :
>
> http://cyan.maid.to/Html/anime.shtml
>
> And even if you go to September, ROD TV looks to be crap too.
While ROD TV looks more likely than not to be mediocre, there's a
possibility of a pleasant surprise. Unlike with "Divergence Eve"
which was 100% certain to be crap. Which it is.
Also, a few of the other fall series might be OK. What about these,
for instance?
http://www.planet-es.net/
http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Animation/hagaren/
There also seem to be a fair number of Leiji Matsumoto titles coming
up. I'm not really familiar with his stuff (except for "Star Blazers";
I never knew where to start), but they might be OK.
> I was thinking about getting a subscription to a ng service that carries raw
> anime, but I can't see the point at this stage - why pay more for crap?
>
> The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a response
> to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year or
> so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at sales
> and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
> sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
I'm not convinced that the R1 market (BTW - why blame only the US and
not Canada also, eh?) is to blame for this dreck. My impression is
that action/drama and action/comedy titles like "Full Metal Panic",
"Rurouni Kenshin", "Vandread", "X TV" and such are the known winners
in R1, not H-date-sim anime. That's certainly what Cartoon Network,
TechTV, Anime Network, etc etc are broadcasting. (And who could have
ever predicted that "FLCL" would appear on US basic cable TV? FLCL!!
Mamini is creepier than all the sisters in "Sister Princess" put
together. Literally or figuratively.)
There also seems to be an R1 demand for more mature (not pre-teen)
shoujo (including bishounen titles), but the number & quality of such
titles produced in Japan has been dropping since 2001. Why else is
ADV funding "Kaleido Star"? And would they have licensed "Wedding
Peach" or "Super GALS" if more titles like "Pretear" were on offer?
(BTW, "Mirumo de Pon" still running at 67 episodes. What's with that -
did it get any good?)
Sure, R1 companies have begun to license date-sim based anime, but I'd
guess it's partly because there's nothing else left to grab. We'll see
if any of them are successful here.
Besides, almost none of the games upon which bishoujo anime are based
have been translated & released in the US, so there's no ready-made
market for such series over here. Which brings me to my hypothesis as
to why so much of this stuff is being shown: the Japanese "otaku" market
wants it. Date-sim & other bishoujo games are popular there, not here,
and all these series are trying to cash in on that by targeting this
pre-existing market. In short: we can't be blamed for every crappy
anime fashion, sometimes the Japanese do it to themselves.
In fact, I find it more likely that "Witch Hunter Robin" and "RahXephon",
not "Sister Princess RePure" and "D.C./Da Capo", were made with R1 sales
at least partially in mind. And they turned out OK.
> When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure, I
> realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way, way
> too far.
>
> So what is my "Action plan" to survive the bishoujo overflow? I've started
> to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in the
> mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser discs
> and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece" and
> "Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from Japan
> cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again ( albeit
> six months after broadcast ).
Maybe this is one reason why ADV is experimenting with older titles
like "Aura Battler Dunbine", Pioneer with "Lupin III", and so on.
- dbm
Sidhartha
> news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
>
> > Sure, I realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is
> > going way, way too far.
> >
Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime fandom.
------------------------------------
Megami Magazine Fan Service:
http://megami2003.tripod.com
"Pictures that you will not find in Newtype USA"
Scans from Vol. 39 (August 2003 issue) coming soon!
Blade
news:6vycnW9EQqE...@comcast.com:
> "Rodrick Su" <r...@tigana.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93BAC10188B...@216.40.28.74...
>> "Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in
>> news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
>>
>> > When are some original concepts going to start to come out again?
>> > Sure, I realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but
>> > this is going way, way too far.
>> >
>
>
> Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
>
> It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime
> fandom.
Oh, this always happens. Every year I've been on this newsgroup (which
is quite a few), there's been several threads where people agree, with
great self-satisfaction, that all the anime nowadays is cookie-cutter
formulas and yearned for the "good old days" (which, of course, also
changed every year).
People also do the exact same thing for TV. All the TV shows now are
crap, the Golden Age was in the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s.
People also do the same thing for music. Everything now is mass-produced
pap for the hoi polloi and there's only one good song per album and
everyone sounds alike, nothing like the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s where
the REAL good stuff was.
Same thing for movies, books, comic books, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
It seems to be a natural human instinct, or something. Not that you
shouldn't be leery of anime fandom, but this particular line of thinking
isn't limited only to them. ;p
Blade
David Watson
> Narutaru looks to be just more of the same bishoujo crap - how is it
> different? ( I tend to read the Japanese "official" sites - if the hype
> there suggests that a given show is the s.o.c. ( same old crap ), why should
> I not believe them. )
Pick up an issue of Super Manga Blast! and check out Shadow Star--that's
Narutaru. The character designs are a little too odd and spindly to be
classified as "bishoujo," and the story does throw plenty at you--and not
very much of it is sweetness and light. I haven't seen the anime yet, but
if the manga is anything like it, I think you might find it quite meaty.
--
Dave Watson, Severed Heads Liberation Front (_Stretcher_ CD-R--sevcom.com)
Swetier Balzoff (aka Ottawa), Ontario, Canada Email--shlf [at] ncf [dot] ca
My music and anime webpage: http://www.ottawa-anime.org/~eyevocal/
Yvette Watson, 1942-2002--You will be greatly missed and always loved.
D B Malmquist
>
> Dave Baranyi wrote:
> >
> > It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
> > vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when I do
> > get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
> > paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either cloned
> > bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
> I'm not convinced that the R1 market (BTW - why blame only the US and
> not Canada also, eh?) is to blame for this dreck.
Contradicting my implication a little, I just remembered - "Comic Party"
was pretty good. And it was based on some sort of bishoujo date-sim game
wasn't it? Which in turn was somehow related to "To Heart" which started
out as a bishoujo H-game.
So it's possible to find good stuff in just about any genre.
Just not always easy.
- dbm
Daniel Rudy
listened as Dave Baranyi spoke these words of wisdom...:
Personally, I'm wondering why we are not getting more mecha/space
combat/military sci-fi stuff here in the US? Although, I do like
Inuyasha, Trigun, and others, I would like to see more anime that is of
Crest/Banner of the Stars quality. That was an *EXCELLENT* anime.
--
Daniel Rudy
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
Ethan Hammond
>
> Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
>
> It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime fandom.
Have you seen Nuku Nuku and Bastard, HAVE YOU!!!!
*SHAKES FIST*
Ethan Hammond
I
> > realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way,
way
> > too far.
>
> Mebbe when Japan gets out of their dam recession.
They have to accept that it is a correction and that the 80's
was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
not the way the stock market generally works.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Daniel Rudy
listened as Ethan Hammond spoke these words of wisdom...:
Nuku Nuku? What's that? As for Bastard, I have the DVD, and I have
seen it several times.
D B Malmquist
<<snip>>
> If you haven't already guessed, my favorite stuff to watch is the
> mecha/space combat/military sci-fi types. As for TV shows, I loved
> Space: Above and Beyond, but NBC killed the show because of ratings.
If you like spaceship action and fairly hard-core SF, you
might try "Sol Bianca: The Legacy". I rented the 3 DVDs last
week, and I thought it was pretty good straight SF. Sorta
expensive to purchase, but definitely worth a rent.
- dbm (who hasn't seen the original "Sol Bianca" movies.)
Ethan Hammond
message
>
> >> Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
> >>
> >> It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime
fandom.
> >
> > Have you seen Nuku Nuku and Bastard, HAVE YOU!!!!
> > *SHAKES FIST*
>
> Nuku Nuku? What's that? As for Bastard, I have the DVD, and I have
> seen it several times.
Well when you have seen Nuku Nuku I will consider you l33t!!!!
*SHAKES COMMANDING FIST*
Galen Musbach
<d.b.ma...@com.swap-com-and-rcn.rcn> wrote:
>Dave Baranyi wrote:
>>
>> It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
>> vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when I do
>> get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
>> paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either cloned
>> bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
Rumiko Theatre. Not that Takahashi is new, but it
isn't a bishoujo title.
>
>Have you looked at "GadGuard" or "Last Exile"? I suspect that
>you'll appreciate the OP to "GadGuard" at a minimum, it's done
>in the style of a "hot" jazz combo from the late 40s/early 50s
>(I think). Also, a new season of "Twelve Kingdoms" just started.
>
>And what about "Texhnolyze"? I watched the 1st episode, it was
>too weird for casual viewing.
>
>There's also "NaruTaru" (too soon to tell if it's good or bad)
>and "Cinderalla Boy" (also too soon), neither of which are bishoujo
>titles.
>
>Also, any idea what this is?
>
> http://www.ytv.co.jp/anime/massugu/
>
>If it's talking dogs - no thanks.
>
>> Look at the list of anime in July and August on the "Moon Phase Anime" page
>> :
>>
>> http://cyan.maid.to/Html/anime.shtml
Neat page.
>>
>> And even if you go to September, ROD TV looks to be crap too.
After a full season delay from the original schedule date.
What's up with Da Capo? Siscon and lolicon in episode 1,
a catgirl later -- is the target market fetishists?
>
>> When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure, I
>> realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way, way
>> too far.
>>
>> So what is my "Action plan" to survive the bishoujo overflow? I've started
>> to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in the
>> mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser discs
>> and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece" and
>> "Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from Japan
>> cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again ( albeit
>> six months after broadcast ).
Konjiki no Gash Bell isn't bishoujo -- it's a shounen fighting anime.
I want to see Kasumin.
The Tenshi no Shippo Chu Omake episodes show a better grasp
of real ecology than does Earth Girl Arjuna -- "You want to eat me!"
-Galen
Jack Bohn
>Somewhere around the time of 07/16/2003 23:02, the world stopped and
>listened as Blade spoke these words of wisdom...:
>
>> Oh, this always happens. Every year I've been on this newsgroup (which
>> is quite a few), there's been several threads where people agree, with
>> great self-satisfaction, that all the anime nowadays is cookie-cutter
>> formulas and yearned for the "good old days" (which, of course, also
>> changed every year).
>>
>> People also do the exact same thing for TV. All the TV shows now are
>> crap, the Golden Age was in the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s.
>You know Blade, I actually agree with you on your point. Although,
>.hack//SIGN is a refreshing deviation from the current norm of Anime.
>Dual, which I recently picked up, was quite entertaining. At first I
>thought it was a ripoff of NGE but around episode 7 or 8 it did a total
>spin into a different direction. The cute anime girl thing is overdone,
>by quite a bit, I might add.
>
>Trigun, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Kikander, Rouni Keshin, Soul Taker,
>Silent Mobious, and now Gatekeepers 21 has been aired in the past two
>months giving a *MUCH* needed break from the DBZ stuff that CN seems so
>obsessed over. I would really welcome the return of the Gundam series
>(I own the Gundam Wing box, as well as Stardust Memory). Even better,
>how about the return of some really retro series, like Robotech,
>Starblazers, and Voltron. I'd watch.
>
>If you haven't already guessed, my favorite stuff to watch is the
>mecha/space combat/military sci-fi types. As for TV shows, I loved
>Space: Above and Beyond, but NBC killed the show because of ratings.
What did NBC show opposite it to kill it with ratings? :) (It
was on FOX) I remember a thread like Blade mentions from a while
ago where it came up that FOX is the most likely network to give
sci-fi a chance, but mostly for a season or only a pilot movie.
--
-Jack
Dave Baranyi
"Daniel Rudy" <dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote in
Look at that list - there are sci-fi mecha shows in there, but they are
predominently "cute girls doing stupid things" shows. That's my point -
there is a scary lack of variety in the Summer offerings. This will
translate into fewer shows that are different coming over.
Dave Baranyi
Dave Baranyi
"D B Malmquist" <d.b.ma...@com.swap-com-and-rcn.rcn> wrote in message
news:3F161A5A...@com.swap-com-and-rcn.rcn...
> Dave Baranyi wrote:
> >
> > It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
> > vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when
I do
> > get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
> > paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either
cloned
> > bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
>
> Have you looked at "GadGuard" or "Last Exile"? I suspect that
> you'll appreciate the OP to "GadGuard" at a minimum, it's done
> in the style of a "hot" jazz combo from the late 40s/early 50s
> (I think). Also, a new season of "Twelve Kingdoms" just started.
>
> And what about "Texhnolyze"? I watched the 1st episode, it was
> too weird for casual viewing.
>
GadGuard, Last Exile and Texhnolyze were Spring starts - I'm talking about
the Summer starts. I have the first DVD of Last Exile on order, when I get
it I'll post my comments. I downloaded the first episode of Texhnolyze and
it just didn't suit my taste - I didn't care about the plot of the
characters and the general premise and delivery didn't grab me. ( I'm not
usually a fan of new-wave film making. ) The latest season of Juunikokuki is
an exception to the list on the Moon Phase page - maybe they left if off
because it is a continuation. ( I haven't decided yet whether I'll wait for
the R1 release to reach this season of Juuni or get the R2s. )
> There's also "NaruTaru" (too soon to tell if it's good or bad)
> and "Cinderalla Boy" (also too soon), neither of which are bishoujo
> titles.
>
> Also, any idea what this is?
>
> http://www.ytv.co.jp/anime/massugu/
>
> If it's talking dogs - no thanks.
>
> > Look at the list of anime in July and August on the "Moon Phase Anime"
page
> > :
> >
> > http://cyan.maid.to/Html/anime.shtml
> >
> > And even if you go to September, ROD TV looks to be crap too.
>
> While ROD TV looks more likely than not to be mediocre, there's a
> possibility of a pleasant surprise. Unlike with "Divergence Eve"
> which was 100% certain to be crap. Which it is.
>
> Also, a few of the other fall series might be OK. What about these,
> for instance?
>
> http://www.planet-es.net/
> http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Animation/hagaren/
>
I haven't browsed the fall titles yet - thanks for the links.
Full Metal Alchemist might be interesting - Hikaru gives up go and gets a
mecha with a loin cloth?
> There also seem to be a fair number of Leiji Matsumoto titles coming
> up. I'm not really familiar with his stuff (except for "Star Blazers";
> I never knew where to start), but they might be OK.
>
> > I was thinking about getting a subscription to a ng service that carries
raw
> > anime, but I can't see the point at this stage - why pay more for crap?
> >
> > The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a
response
> > to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year
or
> > so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at
sales
> > and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
> > sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
>
> I'm not convinced that the R1 market (BTW - why blame only the US and
> not Canada also, eh?) is to blame for this dreck.
The Canadian market is too small to impact anything. This means that the
English market in Canada is just a wag on the tail of the US market dog.
> My impression is
> that action/drama and action/comedy titles like "Full Metal Panic",
> "Rurouni Kenshin", "Vandread", "X TV" and such are the known winners
> in R1, not H-date-sim anime. That's certainly what Cartoon Network,
> TechTV, Anime Network, etc etc are broadcasting. (And who could have
> ever predicted that "FLCL" would appear on US basic cable TV? FLCL!!
> Mamini is creepier than all the sisters in "Sister Princess" put
> together. Literally or figuratively.)
>
> There also seems to be an R1 demand for more mature (not pre-teen)
> shoujo (including bishounen titles), but the number & quality of such
> titles produced in Japan has been dropping since 2001.
And this Summer season is showing that in spades.
> Why else is
> ADV funding "Kaleido Star"? And would they have licensed "Wedding
> Peach" or "Super GALS" if more titles like "Pretear" were on offer?
> (BTW, "Mirumo de Pon" still running at 67 episodes. What's with that -
> did it get any good?)
>
> Sure, R1 companies have begun to license date-sim based anime, but I'd
> guess it's partly because there's nothing else left to grab. We'll see
> if any of them are successful here.
>
> Besides, almost none of the games upon which bishoujo anime are based
> have been translated & released in the US, so there's no ready-made
> market for such series over here. Which brings me to my hypothesis as
> to why so much of this stuff is being shown: the Japanese "otaku" market
> wants it. Date-sim & other bishoujo games are popular there, not here,
> and all these series are trying to cash in on that by targeting this
> pre-existing market. In short: we can't be blamed for every crappy
> anime fashion, sometimes the Japanese do it to themselves.
>
Time lag, my friend. We shall see what shows up in the anime section of Best
Buy next summer...
> In fact, I find it more likely that "Witch Hunter Robin" and "RahXephon",
> not "Sister Princess RePure" and "D.C./Da Capo", were made with R1 sales
> at least partially in mind. And they turned out OK.
>
> > When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure,
I
> > realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way,
way
> > too far.
> >
> > So what is my "Action plan" to survive the bishoujo overflow? I've
started
> > to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in
the
> > mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser
discs
> > and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece"
and
> > "Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from
Japan
> > cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again (
albeit
> > six months after broadcast ).
>
> Maybe this is one reason why ADV is experimenting with older titles
> like "Aura Battler Dunbine", Pioneer with "Lupin III", and so on.
>
> - dbm
I wish the damn Japanese would release more older stuff too - Dr. Slump,
Tokimeki Tonight, etc.
Dave Baranyi
alan
>>Mebbe when Japan gets out of their dam recession.
>
>
> They have to accept that it is a correction and that the 80's
> was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
> Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
> people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
> not the way the stock market generally works.
>
> --
> All Purpose Cultural Randomness
> http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
>
>
Ethan has spoken wisely...
SKJAM!
>> > Oh, you're being a bit too hard on the current crop of shows.
Narutaru,
> > Cinderella Boy and Sumeba Miyako no Cosmos-sou Suttoko Taisen Dokkoida
> > are all good show. You should look for those if you can.
>
> Narutaru looks to be just more of the same bishoujo crap - how is it
> different? ( I tend to read the Japanese "official" sites - if the hype
> there suggests that a given show is the s.o.c. ( same old crap ), why should
> I not believe them. )
>
Horse under the name "Shadow Star", it's not typical bishojo. No
matter what the first chapter might make it look like. The manga very
quickly turns rather dark, both physically (quite a bit of death) and
psychologically (the protagonist's mother isn't exactly supportive, if
you know what I mean).
Note that I'm not saying that you'll like it. But it's not a shiny
happy "look at all them pretty girls" manga.
SKJAM!
alan
> "alan" <acf...@yahoo.do_not_spam_me.com> wrote in message
> news:bf51of$38s$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
>
>> Some of us LIKE bishoujo crap. Don't forget that there's also
>> shounen crap.
>
>
> The shounen clone-crap came out in the Spring season. ( See my
> comments posted here a few months ago.)
Ahhh, you're right.
>> Sure, blame the US for all the world's problems.
>>
>
>
> Hey, Hollywood set the precendent for summer brainless crap - I guess
> "imitation is the sincerest form of flatery" to an extent here...
It's because skool is out, so people put away their intellectual
pretentions. Or maybe it is too hot to sit around the fireplace and
have philosophical discussions.
>> Mebbe when Japan gets out of their dam recession.
>>
>
>
> They may not - my assessment is that China is the next big economic
> power. Maybe I've finally got to start to study Mandarin...
You might have better luck learning Korean.
>> Maybe you should take up manga instead.
>>
>
>
> The amount of crap manga out there boggles the mind - I'll stick to
> gleaning the few "specks of gold" out of the dross oozing out of the
> anime world.
Maybe we need a Dave Baranyi of the manga world to tell us the good from
the bad.
Michelle Klein-Hass
> "Daniel Rudy" <dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote in
> message
>> Nuku Nuku? What's that? As for Bastard, I have the DVD, and I have
>> seen it several times.
>
> Well when you have seen Nuku Nuku I will consider you l33t!!!!
> *SHAKES COMMANDING FIST*
Here's a link to Nuku Nuku:
http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/aRwUZLwBYKsyeJjVM9/browse/item/58776/4/0/0
One of the funniest Anime series ever. Only Excel Saga has managed to top
it for sheer hilarity. Just wait until the TV series is released in R1 by
ADVFilms...it's uneven to say the least, but when it works, it works! The
original OAV, which I am providing a link to here, is not plagued by this
problem. All 6 episodes rock.
-.\\<-H-
--
Ms. Geek (Michelle Klein-Hass)...terrorizing Usenet since 1992!
Charter member, SPCM, (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Menchi)
"Families of Japan, it is not too late to enjoy Turkey with Gravy." -- Kaga
tito
>Trigun, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Kikander, Rouni Keshin, Soul Taker,
>Silent Mobious, and now Gatekeepers 21 has been aired in the past two
>months giving a *MUCH* needed break from the DBZ stuff that CN seems so
>obsessed over. I would really welcome the return of the Gundam series
>(I own the Gundam Wing box, as well as Stardust Memory). Even better,
>how about the return of some really retro series, like Robotech,
>Starblazers, and Voltron. I'd watch.
IIRC, hasn't the Toonami announcer himself mentioned playfully about
their 'overplaying' of DBZ? I think it's more a business matter of
'they'll put it on cause people are watching it.'
*who never thought DBZ was as horrible as people say it is in the
grand scheme, just the worst parts ar the most famous and the most
lauded by both sides :\*
D-Chance.
> They have to accept that it is a correction and that the 80's
> was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
> Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
> people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
> not the way the stock market generally works.
Politics aside (because I hate political discussions), the growth
of the 80s was due more to the advent and development of
the personal computer than Reagan's tax policies... the growth
of the 90s was due more to the advent and development of
the internet than anything Clinton did while HE was in office.
We'll see another big economic "boom" when some enterprising
idealist comes up with that next invention that millions of people
nationwide (even worldwide) will desire and crave.
D-Chance.
Ethan Hammond
> predominently "cute girls doing stupid things" shows. That's my point -
> there is a scary lack of variety in the Summer offerings. This will
> translate into fewer shows that are different coming over.
Do not underestimate the popularity of cute girls doing stupid things.
DO NOT!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
Ethan Hammond
Best
> Buy next summer...
I bet it will be whatever shows the US companies release like Nuku Nuku TV
and Nuku Nuku Dash. *nods nods*
Ethan Hammond
>
> >>Mebbe when Japan gets out of their dam recession.
> >
> >
> > They have to accept that it is a correction and that the 80's
> > was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
> > Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
> > people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
> > not the way the stock market generally works.
>
As always now, gimmie my real Nuku Nuku. I have paid my dues,
PAID THEM!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
Ethan Hammond
>
> > They have to accept that it is a correction and that the 80's
> > was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
> > Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
> > people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
> > not the way the stock market generally works.
>
> Politics aside (because I hate political discussions), the growth
> of the 80s was due more to the advent and development of
> the personal computer than Reagan's tax policies... the growth
> of the 90s was due more to the advent and development of
> the internet than anything Clinton did while HE was in office.
Can you imagine how much real Nuku Nuku's would make the
economy grow compared to these other meager technologies.
*nods nods*
> We'll see another big economic "boom" when some enterprising
> idealist comes up with that next invention that millions of people
> nationwide (even worldwide) will desire and crave.
NUKU NUKU!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
Ethan Hammond
>
> Here's a link to Nuku Nuku:
>
http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/aRwUZLwBYKsyeJjVM9/browse/item/5
8776/4/0/0
> One of the funniest Anime series ever. Only Excel Saga has managed to top
> it for sheer hilarity. Just wait until the TV series is released in R1 by
> ADVFilms...it's uneven to say the least, but when it works, it works! The
> original OAV, which I am providing a link to here, is not plagued by this
> problem. All 6 episodes rock.
To Michelle you listen, LISTEN!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
D-Chance.
"Ethan Hammond" wrote:
> Can you imagine how much real Nuku Nuku's would make the
> economy grow compared to these other meager technologies.
> *nods nods*
There's a Cyberdyne Corporation just waiting to take over
the world....
D-Chance.
alan
LOL how true
D B Malmquist
<<snip>>
> Time lag, my friend. We shall see what shows up in the anime section of Best
> Buy next summer...
Oh yeah, you-know-what always rolls downhill.
My point was only: don't finger us, I think the Japanese themselves are
behind the bishoujo flood.
- dbm
D B Malmquist
>
<<snip>>
>
> GadGuard, Last Exile and Texhnolyze were Spring starts - I'm talking about
> the Summer starts. I have the first DVD of Last Exile on order, when I get
> it I'll post my comments.
The 1st two episodes of "Last Exile" are a prelude to the main
story, which really kicks in in ep 3. Episode #1 is nevertheless
very strong, episode 2 a little sententious (but still good.)
> I downloaded the first episode of Texhnolyze and
> it just didn't suit my taste - I didn't care about the plot of the
> characters and the general premise and delivery didn't grab me. ( I'm not
> usually a fan of new-wave film making. )
I've found that I'm more open to really weird experimental stuff
when I go out to see it in a theater than when watching at home.
Same with experimental Jazz, which I usually enjoy more in a club
than on the stereo. Maybe as a result "Texhnolyze" ep 1 didn't really
grab me either.
> The latest season of Juunikokuki is
> an exception to the list on the Moon Phase page - maybe they left if off
> because it is a continuation. ( I haven't decided yet whether I'll wait for
> the R1 release to reach this season of Juuni or get the R2s. )
Well, Media Blasters seems to be releasing 4.5 episodes of "Twelve
Kingdoms" every 2 months, so expect to wait about 18 months until
episodes 40+ ship in R1. OTOH they eventually were releasing 4.5
episodes per month of "Kenshin", so we can hope for a speedup.
(But would the Japanese allow it, given that they're releasing 3
episodes per month on DVD?)
- dbm
Neo-Era
news:6vycnW9EQqE...@comcast.com:
> "Rodrick Su" <r...@tigana.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93BAC10188B...@216.40.28.74...
>> "Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in
>> news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
>>
>> > When are some original concepts going to start to come out again?
>> > Sure, I realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this
>> > is going way, way too far.
>> >
>
>
> Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
>
> It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime
> fandom.
Hey, I got leery of fandom when they started to praise generic crap. =D
Chibi-Light
<esha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>"Michelle Klein-Hass" <msge...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Here's a link to Nuku Nuku:
>>
>http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/aRwUZLwBYKsyeJjVM9/browse/item/5
>8776/4/0/0
>> One of the funniest Anime series ever. Only Excel Saga has managed to top
>> it for sheer hilarity. Just wait until the TV series is released in R1 by
>> ADVFilms...it's uneven to say the least, but when it works, it works! The
>> original OAV, which I am providing a link to here, is not plagued by this
>> problem. All 6 episodes rock.
>
>To Michelle you listen, LISTEN!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
Nu uh. I hated Excel Saga as well. =p
CL
Ethan Hammond
> > economy grow compared to these other meager technologies.
> > *nods nods*
>
> There's a Cyberdyne Corporation just waiting to take over
> the world....
I submit to you my sweet purring robotic overlord!!!!
Ethan Hammond
>
> >To Michelle you listen, LISTEN!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
>
> Nu uh. I hated Excel Saga as well. =p
Damn rapscallion!!!! *SHAKES FIST*
alan
>
> I dunno, I thought Sentou Yousei Yukikaze was pretty damned cool, and
> it's currently licensed. Pilot developing weird psychic bonds with a
> non-human fighter-jet AI that's just on the cusp of sentience? And
> are the two of them delusional about 'the aliens are everywhere' or
> not?
I just have to butt in and re-assert just how cool this show is. First
of all, it has "better" angst than Macross. The characters look so
tired and sad. Second, I like the dogfight coreography (I bet I spelled
that wrong). Unlike Macross which is elegant and beautiful and etc.
with hundreds of missiles flying everywhere, the dogfights in Yukikaze
are short and nasty. Finally, I just love the sound of the machine guns
in this show. Instead of the regular "rat tat tat" noise, they make a
high pitched "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" noise in which the bullets shoot so
frequently that it's hard to distinguish the individual sounds. So Dam
Cool.
Dave Baranyi
"paranormalized" <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
news:7h8fhvgji5po4bgv5...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:55:51 GMT, Daniel Rudy
> <dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote:
>
>
> *snip snip*
> >Personally, I'm wondering why we are not getting more mecha/space
> >combat/military sci-fi stuff here in the US? Although, I do like
> >Inuyasha, Trigun, and others, I would like to see more anime that is of
> >Crest/Banner of the Stars quality. That was an *EXCELLENT* anime.
>
> it's currently licensed. Pilot developing weird psychic bonds with a
> non-human fighter-jet AI that's just on the cusp of sentience? And
> are the two of them delusional about 'the aliens are everywhere' or
> not?
>
> liked and disliked several weird, obtruse series. (Disliked Utena,
> liked Soultaker, etc. IIRC his reviews) Do think his
> characterization of Yukikaze as "super fighter aircraft wet dreams" is
> a bit unfair and superficial, though. Yeah, it has dogfighting
> action, but that seems like a goofy reason to reject it out of hand.
> Given that I can't find any actual reviews of his re: Yukikaze, I have
> to wonder if he ever gave it a try...
>
No - I haven't seen Yukikaze - my comments are based upon the ads I've seen
for it in print and on trailers on TV tapes. It may be a break-through
series, but nothing I've seen has caused me to want to buy it. I have a
general rule of thumb about film, including anime - if the ads or trailers
don't seem interesting, or seem bad, there is a very small chance that I'll
like the actual film, since the trailers in particular usually show the best
of the film. I'm sometimes wrong, but not often. And at a typical cost of
around $50 for a R2 DVD, I try hard to minimize the number of "Mouse"-type
failures I buy.
> Hmmm, Crest of the Stars, 12 Kingdoms, Yukikaze... what are the *bad*
> anime that were based on novels? ;)
>
"Patapata Hikosen no Boken", aka, "Secret of the Cerulean Sands" .
> Never got around to seeing Macross Zero, and dunno if it's licensed
> yet. Probably an eventual given, anyways, though.
>
>
> Though for space opera/empire depiction like CotS, wasn't there a
> thread re:Legend of the Galactic Heroes just a while back? Too
> expensive for me, but whatever...
>
I realize that "Crest" is a "Holy Cow" around raam, but I really, really
disliked the series, despite sitting all the way through it. And yes, I have
read a lot of sci-fi over the past 45 or so years that I've been reading - I
still have my collection of sci-fi mags that goes back into the early 1930's
( Including essentially all digest-sized sci-fi mags from 1950 - 1990. Anime
is just another expensive hobby to me. ) Maybe I'm just a grouchy old fart
nowadays, but I do want to see more in current sci-fi writing, for print or
film, than pulp authors were writing in the 1950's.
> In any case, I've heard LotGH was based on a novel/series too. So it
> seems that all the *really* good sci-fi world builders are working in
> novels, not original anime screenplays, anyways. Not surprising, when
> you think about it, and consider the benefits/disadvantages of each
> art form.
>
Sci-fi has traditionally translated poorly from print to screen - it's
easier to remember the failures than the successes. But then, that's the
whole basis of the century-long "the book is better than the movie"
argument, so I'm not going to bother going into that here - enought people
do it for manga vs anime.
Take care -
Dave Baranyi
Daniel Rudy
listened as tito spoke these words of wisdom...:
I personally like DBZ, but the problem is that it's been played out too
much. They've restarted the series where the Z warriors are fighting
Frezza on Namik. If you are going to restart the series, then restart
it from the beginning, not in the middle where people who are just
joining in can get a handle on what's going on.
A co-worker of mine who I invited to this group has the same issue that
I do with CN and DBZ. He was kinda ticked that they took RK off and put
it on the weekend. What I would like to see is when one series
finishes, put a different series in it's place, and keep on doing that.
That way, you will maintain the audiance with continuously changing
material and attract new audiances with the word of mouth that there is
something "fresh" on everyday. What do you guys think?
--
Daniel Rudy
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
Daniel Rudy
listened as Jack Bohn spoke these words of wisdom...:
Ok, it was FOX then. That's what I get for going off memory cells that
haven't been used for something like 8 or 9 years.
Andrew Hollingbury
"Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a
response
> to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year or
> so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at sales
> and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
> sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
I was under the impression that the bishoujo stuff doesn't sell in the West,
hence the relative sloth of most companies to license stuff like Tenshi no
Shippo and Happy Lesson. I'm not exactly impressed by this summer's seasons
offerings either (and I won't get to see them until October when the next
season starts anyway), although I'm at least curious about Narutaru and
Cinderella Boy (I like Monkey Punch's character designs). Think of it as a
healthy break for your finances or something like that - less to buy
eventually. For me, there's plenty of stuff I haven't seen to buy
eventually when I have the cash so it's not a problem yet, especially with
some of the older series coming out now (Dunbine sounds interesting, for
example.)
> When are some original concepts going to start to come out again? Sure, I
> realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way,
way
> too far.
I think Moonphase has also posted up some of the details on series coming
out in October from the latest Newtypes or whatever. I can't remember
anything in particular, but I think (hope?) this summer is an exception
rather than a rule with regards to bishoujo-type shows.
Andrew H
Shaun Baker
>"Sidhartha" <sid@deademail> wrote in
>news:6vycnW9EQqE...@comcast.com:
>
>> "Rodrick Su" <r...@tigana.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns93BAC10188B...@216.40.28.74...
>>> "Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in
>>> news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
>>>
>>> > When are some original concepts going to start to come out again?
>>> > Sure, I realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but
>>> > this is going way, way too far.
>>> >
>>
>>
>> Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
>>
>> It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime
>> fandom.
Especially with anime most of us are only seeing a filtered amount
already - a lot of the 90% never makes it over here in fansubs or
official releases. How much of any medium do you really like more
than 10% - Sturgeon's Law doesn't say the 90/10 is the same for
everyone.
>Oh, this always happens. Every year I've been on this newsgroup (which
>is quite a few), there's been several threads where people agree, with
>great self-satisfaction, that all the anime nowadays is cookie-cutter
>formulas and yearned for the "good old days" (which, of course, also
>changed every year).
A lot of this is generational though, when my friends and I get
together our "good old days" don't change. I seriously doubt that my
children will have the same "good old days" I did, in fact there "good
old days" will probably be seen as a lot of crap by me at the time.
Also, probably moreso with anime than 'local' media, the initial
exposure has lot's of positive(different) aspects to it that repeated
use of dulls. The shows you fell in love with were new to you but
already been there-done that to the older crowd<I've noticed this
increasingly happening with me>.
Along similar lines, when niche markets start to mainstream a lot of
the original fans get bitchy. To please most of the people, the ones
at the fringes(where most niche audiences lie) don't really matter
much.
>People also do the exact same thing for TV. All the TV shows now are
>crap, the Golden Age was in the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s.
>
>People also do the same thing for music. Everything now is mass-produced
>pap for the hoi polloi and there's only one good song per album and
>everyone sounds alike, nothing like the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s where
>the REAL good stuff was.
ON the recording side though, cd's force an artist to put an extra
10-20 minutes(or more) of recordings on a disk. Even in the 'good old
days' there was usually some filler, now there's just another 10-20
minutes of it per Cd<or more depending on if you think the artist
could come up with a quality 30 minutes first>.
>Same thing for movies, books, comic books, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
>
>It seems to be a natural human instinct, or something. Not that you
>shouldn't be leery of anime fandom, but this particular line of thinking
>isn't limited only to them. ;p
> Blade
I think there are times in your life when some things are just able to
mean more than they will most of the time. Very little music has made
nearly the impact that a lot of music did in high school/college
(early-mid 80's). A lot of that, for me anyways, seems to be the
amount of people you can talk to about something - in high
school/college it was easy to find quite a few people to talk to but
it get's harder as life progresses.
Shaun
Shaun Baker
<davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote:
>> Hmmm, Crest of the Stars, 12 Kingdoms, Yukikaze... what are the *bad*
>> anime that were based on novels? ;)
>>
>
>"Patapata Hikosen no Boken", aka, "Secret of the Cerulean Sands" .
I don't think SoCS was bad, not necessarily that great or original but
not bad. Atleast anime can have the length to do novels better that
the US where it get's forced into 90-150 minute movies which leads to
a lot more being left out.
>I realize that "Crest" is a "Holy Cow" around raam, but I really, really
>disliked the series, despite sitting all the way through it. And yes, I have
>read a lot of sci-fi over the past 45 or so years that I've been reading - I
>still have my collection of sci-fi mags that goes back into the early 1930's
>( Including essentially all digest-sized sci-fi mags from 1950 - 1990. Anime
>is just another expensive hobby to me. ) Maybe I'm just a grouchy old fart
>nowadays, but I do want to see more in current sci-fi writing, for print or
>film, than pulp authors were writing in the 1950's.
I thought a lot of anime used the Cyberpunk elements which would have
to be post 50's, Dick's novel for the basis of Bladerunner was mid
60's but certainly didn't influence anything nearly as much as the
movie(early 80's? - which would also tie in with Gibson's Neuromancer
which started the print media frenzy with it).
>Sci-fi has traditionally translated poorly from print to screen - it's
>easier to remember the failures than the successes. But then, that's the
>whole basis of the century-long "the book is better than the movie"
>argument, so I'm not going to bother going into that here - enought people
>do it for manga vs anime.
It's not just sci-fi, I think it's the tranlation that's the problem -
how many movie novelizations do you think are as good as the movie??
Usually whatever comes first will be the yardstick by which the others
will be measured. Movies have to drop scenes and give solid visuals
which will be the same for everyone - books leave a lot up to your
imagination.
Shaun
AstroNerdBoy
> "Sidhartha" <sid@deademail> wrote in
> news:6vycnW9EQqE...@comcast.com:
>
> > "Rodrick Su" <r...@tigana.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns93BAC10188B...@216.40.28.74...
> >> "Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in
> >> news:GTlRa.90160$sI91....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
> >>
> >> > When are some original concepts going to start to come out again?
> >> > Sure, I realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but
> >> > this is going way, way too far.
> >> >
> >
> >
> > Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
> >
> > It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime
> > fandom.
>
> is quite a few), there's been several threads where people agree, with
> great self-satisfaction, that all the anime nowadays is cookie-cutter
> formulas and yearned for the "good old days" (which, of course, also
> changed every year).
>
> crap, the Golden Age was in the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s.
>
> People also do the same thing for music. Everything now is mass-produced
> pap for the hoi polloi and there's only one good song per album and
> everyone sounds alike, nothing like the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s where
> the REAL good stuff was.
>
>
> It seems to be a natural human instinct, or something. Not that you
> shouldn't be leery of anime fandom, but this particular line of thinking
> isn't limited only to them. ;p
>
> Blade
*lol* Hey, you could be costing an American company some sales with
that scary talk! ;-P
Heck, I'm guilty of that kind of talk. But then if it weren't for my
absolute disgust with American TV and all the bleeding awful reality
shows that everyone else seem to watch, I wouldn't have starting
looking for alternate sources of entertainment and thus recall in the
back of my pea-brain the term "anime". :-D
As for music, heck it IS so bad that the RIAA has nothing to fear from
my lack of purchases. I'm not downloading the crap either! ;-D
AstroNerdBoy
> It's bad enough that I've been spending all my weekends, holidays and
> vacation days this summer doing renovations around the house - but when I do
> get the time to crawl over to my PC and check out new anime with my
> paint-encrusted hands, I find that it all seems to be crap - either cloned
> bishoujo crap or crappy sequels to older bishoujo crap.
>
> Look at the list of anime in July and August on the "Moon Phase Anime" page
> :
>
> http://cyan.maid.to/Html/anime.shtml
>
> And even if you go to September, ROD TV looks to be crap too.
>
> I was thinking about getting a subscription to a ng service that carries raw
> anime, but I can't see the point at this stage - why pay more for crap?
>
> The thought that scares me is that what we are seeing here may be a response
> to the popularity ( meaning Sales ) of anime in the US in the past year or
> so. The "brain trusts" at the various anime companies are looking at sales
> and have come to the conclusion that bishoujo crap translates as "easy
> sales", so they are pumping it out as fast and as often as possible.
>
> realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way, way
> too far.
>
> to go back to series that I haven't watched since I first saw them in the
> mid-to-late 90's and am watching them again, starting with my laser discs
> and old tapes from Japanese TV. Also, the DVD releases of "One Piece" and
> "Meitantei Conan" are finally reaching the points where my tapes from Japan
> cut off, so I'll soon be seeing new episodes of both series again ( albeit
> six months after broadcast ).
>
> Dave Baranyi
Does mahou shoujo count as bishoujo? I'm not sure I've even seen a
bishoujo title, though I'm now curious. *lol*
AstroNerdBoy
> Daniel Rudy wrote:
>
> >Somewhere around the time of 07/16/2003 23:02, the world stopped and
> >listened as Blade spoke these words of wisdom...:
> >
> >> is quite a few), there's been several threads where people agree, with
> >> great self-satisfaction, that all the anime nowadays is cookie-cutter
> >> formulas and yearned for the "good old days" (which, of course, also
> >> changed every year).
> >>
> >> People also do the exact same thing for TV. All the TV shows now are
> >> crap, the Golden Age was in the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s.
>
> >.hack//SIGN is a refreshing deviation from the current norm of Anime.
> >Dual, which I recently picked up, was quite entertaining. At first I
> >thought it was a ripoff of NGE but around episode 7 or 8 it did a total
> >spin into a different direction. The cute anime girl thing is overdone,
> >by quite a bit, I might add.
> >
> >Trigun, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Kikander, Rouni Keshin, Soul Taker,
> >Silent Mobious, and now Gatekeepers 21 has been aired in the past two
> >months giving a *MUCH* needed break from the DBZ stuff that CN seems so
> >obsessed over. I would really welcome the return of the Gundam series
> >(I own the Gundam Wing box, as well as Stardust Memory). Even better,
> >how about the return of some really retro series, like Robotech,
> >Starblazers, and Voltron. I'd watch.
> >
> >If you haven't already guessed, my favorite stuff to watch is the
> >mecha/space combat/military sci-fi types. As for TV shows, I loved
> >Space: Above and Beyond, but NBC killed the show because of ratings.
>
> What did NBC show opposite it to kill it with ratings? :) (It
> was on FOX) I remember a thread like Blade mentions from a while
> ago where it came up that FOX is the most likely network to give
> sci-fi a chance, but mostly for a season or only a pilot movie.
Oh they'll give it a chance...in the worst time slot out there.
<rolls eyes> I was really ticked at what happened with "Firefly".
Fox figured that since Joss Whedon had scored big with "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer", "Firefly" would be a sure hit even in a death
timeslot. It did OK ratings-wise, just not as good as Fox wanted.
Besides, those hideous reality shows make them way more profit than
any sci-fi show ever could.
AstroNerdBoy
I'm not sure how Toonami is doing things though I'd guess it is much
like Adult Swim. That's why I just record the 2-hour anime block on
Adult Swim because it is too much of a pain to constantly check the
bloody lineup from week to week to see what is playing when.
But I think for some shows, CN reruns them WAY to often. How many
times in a row did "Cowboy Bebop" get played through before they
finally took it off? It's OK to rerun a series, just give it air to
breath. The exception to this rule are long-running series (more that
26 episodes...like "Inuyasha"). Those you could rerun more often, but
only if you start back over from the begining each time rather than
from the middle.
But then this runs smack into what you refered to about DBZ. That's a
long-running series and has been rerun ad nauseam. So at some point,
even long-running series need a break. :-)
AstroNerdBoy
> "Sidhartha" <sid@deademail> wrote in message
> >
> > Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
> >
> > It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime fandom.
>
> *SHAKES FIST*
No I haven't. NO I HAVEN'T! *shakes fist back*
But then some smeg head has it rented at Greencine. That wouldn't be
you would it? ;-) I'm actually tempted to put that in my list of
"please purchase additional copies of the following DVD's".
AstroNerdBoy
If you started watching with some "generic crap", you have a higher
opinion of it because you've never seen anything like it before. Then
when you see the non-generic stuff, sometimes you change your mind.
However, that could take a while considering how much anime is out
there. ;-P
AstroNerdBoy
> I
> > > realize that Sturgeon's Law applies to anime too, but this is going way,
> way
> > > too far.
> >
>
> was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
> Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
> people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
> not the way the stock market generally works.
Dang it! Shake your fist and pound the pulpit when you give a lecture
Ethan-sensei! ;-D
Dave Baranyi
"AstroNerdBoy" <sp...@astronerdboy.com> wrote in message
news:7e562e8e.03072...@posting.google.com...
No -
- Mahou shoujo is anime aimed at young female viewers, often initially
published in shoujo manga. Examples, "Sailor Moon", "Card Captor Sakura" and
many more. Doesn't appear on TV in Japan with great frequency, with the
exception of TV Tokyo's Saturday morning mahou shoujo slot ( currently
running shows like "Miromo da Pon", and "Full Moon o Sagashite" ).
- "Bishoujo" anime aka "Cute Girl" anime ( also aka "Cute Girls Doing Stupid
Things" anime ) is aimed at guys and is often derived from date-sim games.
Examples, "Sister Princess", "Mahouromatic" and many more. Used to be
limited to late night time slots, this summer has crowded out into time
slots everywhere.
How to tell the difference -
1 - The origin : shoujo manga versus date-sim game
2 - My "Cup Size" rule of thumb - if the heroine is "B-cup" or smaller, it's
probably shoujo, if the heroine is "C-cup" or larger, it is most likely
bishoujo. ( The "bad girls" in either type of show usually have bigger
chests than the heroine. )
3 - Shoujo series often have the lead character agonizing over which guy she
likes and sometimes includes a male harem.
4 - Bishoujo series often have the lead character being relentlessly pursued
by a steadily increasing number of steadily increasingly "well endowed"
girls. The male lead is also often embarrassed by this attention -
particularly in post 1990 series.
Dave Baranyi
Chika
<kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> People also do the exact same thing for TV. All the TV shows now are
> crap, the Golden Age was in the 70s/80s/early 90s/late 90s.
> People also do the same thing for music. Everything now is
> mass-produced pap for the hoi polloi and there's only one good song per
> album and everyone sounds alike, nothing like the 70s/80s/early
> 90s/late 90s where the REAL good stuff was.
> Same thing for movies, books, comic books, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I think the same thing myself, but this far down the line, my thoughts
turn to "why" more than "what". I already know that we have little in the
way of originality in television, music and so forth, but why?
When capitalism pretty much killed off any other system in the world, the
various big corporations went on a merger spree, each merging with the
other until we ended up with a few very big corporations and little else.
This would not be a problem if it was not for the effect it had on the
creative media.
Many of the most acquisitive companies tended to be media companies. By
merging and by hostile takeovers, we have seen the formation of
conglomerations such as AOL Time Warner and News International, companies
that control the vast amount of media output. These companies got as big
as they did by making the maximum profit for the least possible outlay.
That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't foster a great amount
of creativity. Originality has always involved an element of risk, and
accountant driven enterprises such as these are ill equipped to handle
risk.
The result is that, by analysing the past successes in the chosen field,
each new fad or style is built on the old one, thus minimising the risk
(you cannot totally eliminate risk, a problem that beancounters the world
over are aware of and hate). The problem with this approach is that it
allows little room for originality.
The mass-produced pabulum used to sate the masses in the music, video and
network markets is then supported by massive amounts of marketing hype to
reinforce its market position and deny any chance of outside anomalies
which, while they would possibly inject new life into said market, would
do it at the expense of the corporate cartel. Of course this doesn't
always work, and anime is a good example of this since it has muscled its
way into the public perception despite the efforts of the cartel. When
something like this occurs, the cartel then attempts to pervert it by
consuming it. While this may have initial beneficial effects, eventually
it becomes just another part of the corporate dogma, as corrupt as the
rest. I can see anime going that way.
The biggest difference between what was and what is is that, in the days
before the 90's, there were people known as "entrepreneurs" who would pour
their effort and wealth into what would be considered unacceptible risks
by todays' standards. They would take on and encourage new talent wherever
they could in the hope that at least one part would become a success. This
didn't always work, but those that did produced talent that, besides being
original, would usually stick around for years rather than the fifteen
minutes of fame that is the norm these days. These days the entrepreneurs
have all but vanished. Those that still persist tend to be in the
corporate structure, and tend to be controlled and circumscribed by the
whim of the beancounter mentality that permeates the industry.
Of course this doesn't present a problem to the generation they invariably
target the most; the child, especially the "pre-teen" and the teenager. At
this age, to think for yourself and be original is not always encouraged,
and it is certainly not encouraged by the industry since this would mean a
catastrophe! So they exploit peer pressure to promote the same greasy
little groups, the same tacky little shows, each new generation not
realising that they are being force-fed the same stuff that the last was,
just by new faces. By the time they reach an age where they realise what
has been done to them, the next generation is being targetted. Don't
bother trying to tell them about it though because you will be seen as
some sort of old fart griping about "the good old days". The good old days
weren't that good, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
There is only one way to get out of this vicious cycle of beancounter
control, and the kids at the end of the 1960's had the right idea, but
whether that could ever happen again is doubtful. These days it has been
drummed into us that we must possess, we must consume, we must conform,
and breaking this conditioning would require vasts amount of willpower. In
isolated cases it could happen, but not on the scale seen then, and
especially because there are not the other driving forces that were in
play back then.
That does not, however, stop us from being able to exercise originality
for ourselves. The net is one way of doing this, and I see examples all
the time where people make their own creative statements online, free of
the need to justify it by some other person. Think about it. How many of
us have web sites? Have written fanfics? Drawn? Created animations? OK, I
might gripe about operating systems, but in the end that is just a tool.
We do what we do because we enjoy it.
That's my thoughts. Sorry for the length! *^^*
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Sometimes you just have to say 'What the heck'
Daniel Rudy
listened as paranormalized spoke these words of wisdom...:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:55:51 GMT, Daniel Rudy
> <dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote:
>
>
> *snip snip*
>>Personally, I'm wondering why we are not getting more mecha/space
>>combat/military sci-fi stuff here in the US? Although, I do like
>>Inuyasha, Trigun, and others, I would like to see more anime that is of
>>Crest/Banner of the Stars quality. That was an *EXCELLENT* anime.
>
> I dunno, I thought Sentou Yousei Yukikaze was pretty damned cool, and
> it's currently licensed. Pilot developing weird psychic bonds with a
> non-human fighter-jet AI that's just on the cusp of sentience? And
> are the two of them delusional about 'the aliens are everywhere' or
> not?
>
> Wierd and cool. Dunno if it'd be to Dave's taste, since he's both
> liked and disliked several weird, obtruse series. (Disliked Utena,
> liked Soultaker, etc. IIRC his reviews) Do think his
> characterization of Yukikaze as "super fighter aircraft wet dreams" is
> a bit unfair and superficial, though. Yeah, it has dogfighting
> action, but that seems like a goofy reason to reject it out of hand.
> Given that I can't find any actual reviews of his re: Yukikaze, I have
> to wonder if he ever gave it a try...
Personally, I'm always looking for a good anime. It seems though that
the newer stuff is just plain boring. I know that most people here
liked Excel Saga, but to be it's stupidity was over the top. Hand Maid
May reminded me of Tenchi Muyo in many aspects. Then we have Record of
Loddoss War and Slayers which I enjoyed very much.
> Hmmm, Crest of the Stars, 12 Kingdoms, Yukikaze... what are the *bad*
> anime that were based on novels? ;)
None, that I can think of.
> Never got around to seeing Macross Zero, and dunno if it's licensed
> yet. Probably an eventual given, anyways, though.
I have Macross Plus and Macross II. I liked both of them. Others who I
loaned the disks to also liked them. Now these are people who think
that Speed Racer is current stuff. One guy was just totally blown away
over it.
>
> Though for space opera/empire depiction like CotS, wasn't there a
> thread re:Legend of the Galactic Heroes just a while back? Too
> expensive for me, but whatever...
There was. I wouldn't mind taking a peek, but I wouldn't pay US2K all
at once. I would buy the boxsets individually and over time.
> In any case, I've heard LotGH was based on a novel/series too. So it
> seems that all the *really* good sci-fi world builders are working in
> novels, not original anime screenplays, anyways. Not surprising, when
> you think about it, and consider the benefits/disadvantages of each
> art form.
>
True. Akira was mainly based from the manga, over 1500 pages of it. So
a 2 hour movie doesn't really do it justice. B/CotS was basically one
series per novel, which gives the animators some room because they are
not under the gun to compress a multi-novel series into a short running
anime.
> Jonathan Fisher
> which of course should segue into 'OT:favorite spec-fic novels list'
> normally, but I'm refraining today... ;)
> ----------
> paranormalized man, subnormalized otaku
>
> ROT13 and then delete all instances of the letter after P to email
Daniel Rudy
listened as D B Malmquist spoke these words of wisdom...:
Speaking of the bishoujo flood, Hand Maid May has *MASSIVE* amounts of
'fan service'. I mean the number of panty shots of the landlord's
daughter was more than excessive. The 'cute girls doing stupid things'
gets old. What about 'cute girls doing smart things' Huh?
Galen Musbach
Ruri from 'Nadesico?
Speaking of which, there's also too much lolicon.
-Galen
Dave Baranyi
"Daniel Rudy" <dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote in
That's why "Azumanga Daioh" was such a critical and economic success -
because it had a bunch of cute girls doing and saying interesting and
intelligent things in a manner that everyone could relate to. This summer's
flood of crap might be due to the success of "AD" last year, but as is too
common in the entertainment business, the "brains in mahogany row" probably
figured that AD's success was only due to the girls and not to the
intelligent stories, great characterizations and witty dialog.
Dave Baranyi
Chibi-Light
wrote:
>As for music, heck it IS so bad that the RIAA has nothing to fear from
>my lack of purchases. I'm not downloading the crap either! ;-D
Ain't that the truth. The last 15 or so CDs I've purchased were
either on non-RIAA independant labels or from Japan.
CL
Arthur Kimes
<dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote:
] > Hmmm, Crest of the Stars, 12 Kingdoms, Yukikaze... what are the
*bad*
] > anime that were based on novels? ;)
]
] None, that I can think of.
There's that so-bad-it's-scary Lensman movie...
So what are you going to do, Mollari, huh? Blow up the island?
Actually..., now that you mention it. (displays trigger) <click>
Daniel Rudy
listened as AstroNerdBoy spoke these words of wisdom...:
Speaking of long running series. CN could make a killing on Slayers.
And Sailor Moon has been off the lineup for what, 2 years now? And I
haven't seen anything Tenchi for awhile either, after they ran the OVAs,
TV1, and TV2 series for over a year. Remember when they had the Toonami
block from something like 12AM to 5AM Saturday morning? They played a
number of series that you just didn't see on the normal lineup. Series
like Battle of the Planets and Voltron which I haven't seen in ages.
But, back to the subject at hand. They could run Dragon Ball, then DBZ,
and then DB-GT in one timeslot. That way there is always something new
there. Then they could run Sailor Moon, Tenchi OVA, Tenchi Universe and
Tenchi Tokyo in the next timeslot. They you can have RK, YYH, Inyasha,
and something else in a third time slot. Keep rotating shows around. I
wonder if anyone from CN is reading this. They should be.
Daniel Rudy
listened as Ethan Hammond spoke these words of wisdom...:
Be carefull with her you. She may be robotic but those parts are
*EXPENSIVE* *SHAKES ETHAN* Next time you will foot the bill for
repairs to Nuku Nuku.
5parrowhawk
While I personally like Full Metal Panic, I can't deny that quite a
number of people think it's bad...
- 5parrow
tito
wrote:
Sure it can. 'Magical Girl' just refers to the storyline. Bishoujo
just means the cast is predominantly a bunch of pretty girls partly
aimed at a male audience.
Ever since Sailor Moon, most magical girls series targeted at girls
make the attempt to use their pretty chara to pull in some male
watches.
tito
Nope. Magical Gitl stuff is also [less often] aimed at guys. Devil
Hunter Yohko certainly follows all the conventions, although it's
darker and more fanservicy. Vampire Princess Miyu TV, in a twisted
way, also qualifies.
It's just not common.
>
>- "Bishoujo" anime aka "Cute Girl" anime ( also aka "Cute Girls Doing Stupid
>Things" anime ) is aimed at guys and is often derived from date-sim games.
>Examples, "Sister Princess", "Mahouromatic" and many more. Used to be
>limited to late night time slots, this summer has crowded out into time
>slots everywhere.
Also, many Bishoujo series now capitalize on the Sailor Moon marketing
strategy. Girls AND boys will watch shows with a cute girl cast
provided they look cute (=sexy) enough.
>
>How to tell the difference -
>
>1 - The origin : shoujo manga versus date-sim game
>
>2 - My "Cup Size" rule of thumb - if the heroine is "B-cup" or smaller, it's
>probably shoujo, if the heroine is "C-cup" or larger, it is most likely
>bishoujo. ( The "bad girls" in either type of show usually have bigger
>chests than the heroine. )
Jugs in Mermaid Princess nonwithstanding.
>
>3 - Shoujo series often have the lead character agonizing over which guy she
>likes and sometimes includes a male harem.
>
>4 - Bishoujo series often have the lead character being relentlessly pursued
>by a steadily increasing number of steadily increasingly "well endowed"
>girls. The male lead is also often embarrassed by this attention -
>particularly in post 1990 series.
Careful, cause nowadays bishoujo isn't as synonymous with Love
Comedies. A few lately don't have ANY male characters.
>
>Dave Baranyi
>
tito
<dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote:
>Somewhere around the time of 07/17/2003 18:47, the world stopped and
>listened as D B Malmquist spoke these words of wisdom...:
>
>> Dave Baranyi wrote:
>>
>> <<snip>>
>>> Time lag, my friend. We shall see what shows up in the anime section of Best
>>> Buy next summer...
>>
>> Oh yeah, you-know-what always rolls downhill.
>>
>> My point was only: don't finger us, I think the Japanese themselves are
>> behind the bishoujo flood.
>>
>> - dbm
>
>Speaking of the bishoujo flood, Hand Maid May has *MASSIVE* amounts of
>'fan service'. I mean the number of panty shots of the landlord's
>daughter was more than excessive.
Hand Maid May went a weird route which a lot of people think didn't
help. A lot of the fanservice in HHM was parodying its own silly genre
(the infamous scene where Rena meets the nasty otaku) but also
conviently can be used that same way.
Sidhartha
>
> - Mahou shoujo is anime aimed at young female viewers, often initially
> published in shoujo manga. Examples, "Sailor Moon", "Card Captor Sakura"
and
> many more. Doesn't appear on TV in Japan with great frequency, with the
> exception of TV Tokyo's Saturday morning mahou shoujo slot ( currently
> running shows like "Miromo da Pon", and "Full Moon o Sagashite" ).
>
> - "Bishoujo" anime aka "Cute Girl" anime ( also aka "Cute Girls Doing
Stupid
> Things" anime ) is aimed at guys and is often derived from date-sim games.
> Examples, "Sister Princess", "Mahouromatic" and many more. Used to be
> limited to late night time slots, this summer has crowded out into time
> slots everywhere.
>
"Bishoujo" means "beautiful girl" or "pretty girl." It is not a genre used
in manga or anime, but is often used in adult-oriented PC games.
> How to tell the difference -
>
> 1 - The origin : shoujo manga versus date-sim game
>
> 2 - My "Cup Size" rule of thumb - if the heroine is "B-cup" or smaller,
it's
> probably shoujo, if the heroine is "C-cup" or larger, it is most likely
> bishoujo. ( The "bad girls" in either type of show usually have bigger
> chests than the heroine. )
>
Dave, breast size is irrelevant on whether an anime is "shoujo" or
"bishoujo." Your "rule of thumb" is flawed.
> 3 - Shoujo series often have the lead character agonizing over which guy
she
> likes and sometimes includes a male harem.
>
"Shoujo" as a marketing term refers to anime that generally appeals to
female audiences.
> 4 - Bishoujo series often have the lead character being relentlessly
pursued
> by a steadily increasing number of steadily increasingly "well endowed"
> girls. The male lead is also often embarrassed by this attention -
> particularly in post 1990 series.
>
"Bishoujo" is not an anime genre as I said before.
By the way, Dave, if you have issues with shoujo or bishoujo anime, then you
should have have issues with shounen, yaoi, or shounen-ai anime as well.
Would you complain if these anime genres dominate the summer schedule?
------------------------------------
Megami Magazine Fan Service:
http://megami2003.tripod.com
"Fan service not found in Newtype USA"
Vol. 39 posters now available!
Ethan Hammond
message
>
> *EXPENSIVE* *SHAKES ETHAN* Next time you will foot the bill for
> repairs to Nuku Nuku.
She likes the fancy oil too, at least on one of the radio dramas.
Hee hee. ^_-
Ethan Hammond
>
> > > Where do you fit in Sturgeon's Law? The 90% or the 10%?
> > >
> > > It is such elitist attitudes like above is why I am leery of anime
fandom.
> >
> > Have you seen Nuku Nuku and Bastard, HAVE YOU!!!!
> > *SHAKES FIST*
>
> No I haven't. NO I HAVEN'T! *shakes fist back*
>
> But then some smeg head has it rented at Greencine. That wouldn't be
> you would it? ;-) I'm actually tempted to put that in my list of
> "please purchase additional copies of the following DVD's".
Nope I don't know what Greencine is and I own copies of the shows.
*SHAKES DVDs!!!!*
Ethan Hammond
> > was the exception and not the rule. But will that happen?
> > Maybe in 10-20 years. Same thing with the US right now
> > people have to realize that the late 90's stock market was
> > not the way the stock market generally works.
>
> Dang it! Shake your fist and pound the pulpit when you give a lecture
> Ethan-sensei! ;-D
Gomen nasai. It is a market correction, A CORRECTION!!!!
*SHAKES FIST*
Ethan Hammond
>
> >As for music, heck it IS so bad that the RIAA has nothing to fear from
> >my lack of purchases. I'm not downloading the crap either! ;-D
>
> Ain't that the truth. The last 15 or so CDs I've purchased were
> either on non-RIAA independant labels or from Japan.
Me too. *nods nods*
Dave Baranyi
"Sidhartha" <sid@deademail> wrote in message
>
> "Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:1huSa.360$%bQ....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> >
> > - Mahou shoujo is anime aimed at young female viewers, often initially
> > published in shoujo manga. Examples, "Sailor Moon", "Card Captor Sakura"
> and
> > many more. Doesn't appear on TV in Japan with great frequency, with the
> > exception of TV Tokyo's Saturday morning mahou shoujo slot ( currently
> > running shows like "Miromo da Pon", and "Full Moon o Sagashite" ).
> >
> > - "Bishoujo" anime aka "Cute Girl" anime ( also aka "Cute Girls Doing
> Stupid
> > Things" anime ) is aimed at guys and is often derived from date-sim
games.
> > Examples, "Sister Princess", "Mahouromatic" and many more. Used to be
> > limited to late night time slots, this summer has crowded out into time
> > slots everywhere.
> >
>
> "Bishoujo" means "beautiful girl" or "pretty girl." It is not a genre used
> in manga or anime, but is often used in adult-oriented PC games.
>
(... and someone referred to me as being "elitist"...)
>
> > How to tell the difference -
> >
> > 1 - The origin : shoujo manga versus date-sim game
> >
> > 2 - My "Cup Size" rule of thumb - if the heroine is "B-cup" or smaller,
> it's
> > probably shoujo, if the heroine is "C-cup" or larger, it is most likely
> > bishoujo. ( The "bad girls" in either type of show usually have bigger
> > chests than the heroine. )
> >
>
> Dave, breast size is irrelevant on whether an anime is "shoujo" or
> "bishoujo." Your "rule of thumb" is flawed.
>
It's a rule of thumb, and it hold up quite well in many cases. But I guess
that it doesn't appeal to the terminally humor-impared.
> > 3 - Shoujo series often have the lead character agonizing over which guy
> she
> > likes and sometimes includes a male harem.
> >
>
> "Shoujo" as a marketing term refers to anime that generally appeals to
> female audiences.
>
So, how does that contract what I've said?
> > 4 - Bishoujo series often have the lead character being relentlessly
> pursued
> > by a steadily increasing number of steadily increasingly "well endowed"
> > girls. The male lead is also often embarrassed by this attention -
> > particularly in post 1990 series.
> >
>
> "Bishoujo" is not an anime genre as I said before.
>
Are you hoping that by repeating it your premise will become more
acceptable? And it is you who is using the "g" word, not me. BTW - check out
the Japanese ads for many of the recent bishoujo anime, both print and
trailers, and see how they are referred to in those ads.
> By the way, Dave, if you have issues with shoujo or bishoujo anime, then
you
> should have have issues with shounen, yaoi, or shounen-ai anime as well.
> Would you complain if these anime genres dominate the summer schedule?
>
Yes, and I have when clone-crap of various types has swamped anime
broadcasting in the past.
BTW - what brought you to the conclusion that I have "issues" with shoujo
anime?
Now, I guess I ought to be a bit "flattered" that you would stop by to be my
own "personal troll", but first try:
1 - Reading the actual words that I write.
2 - Giving your sense of humor a kick-start first.
Dave Baranyi
Rose Prescott
Hammond" <esha...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>"Daniel Rudy" <dcr...@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote in
>message
>>
>> Be carefull with her you. She may be robotic but those parts are
>> *EXPENSIVE* *SHAKES ETHAN* Next time you will foot the bill for
>> repairs to Nuku Nuku.
>
>She likes the fancy oil too, at least on one of the radio dramas.
>Hee hee. ^_-
Mom's Robot Oil?
Rose
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Andrew Hollingbury
"Sidhartha" <sid@deademail> wrote in message
news:eSWdnSNfQ99...@comcast.com...
>
> news:1huSa.360$%bQ....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Stupid
> > Things" anime ) is aimed at guys and is often derived from date-sim
games.
> > Examples, "Sister Princess", "Mahouromatic" and many more. Used to be
> > limited to late night time slots, this summer has crowded out into time
> > slots everywhere.
> >
>
> "Bishoujo" means "beautiful girl" or "pretty girl." It is not a genre used
> in manga or anime, but is often used in adult-oriented PC games.
So what do we call shows based on said adult-orientated PC games, then? Are
they "bishoujo" anime, or what? Shows such as Kanon, Da Capo or Green Green
(all of which are based on adult-orientated games with varying degress of
"adult") have to have SOME kind of classification - is it merely "shounen",
since Kanon, for example, has a shounen manga? Can't it be a classification
within a genre - I mean, to take a CLAMP example, Angelic Layer, Chobits,
XXXHolic and Tsubasa are all "shounen", but they each have a different genre
within that I'd have thought.
>
> > How to tell the difference -
> >
> > 1 - The origin : shoujo manga versus date-sim game
> >
> > 2 - My "Cup Size" rule of thumb - if the heroine is "B-cup" or smaller,
> it's
> > probably shoujo, if the heroine is "C-cup" or larger, it is most likely
> > bishoujo. ( The "bad girls" in either type of show usually have bigger
> > chests than the heroine. )
> >
>
> Dave, breast size is irrelevant on whether an anime is "shoujo" or
> "bishoujo." Your "rule of thumb" is flawed.
All rules have exceptions. Indeed, Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch
features characters with "larger" breasts than normal. This could be due to
a number of factors - it may just be Pink's (the mangaka's) style, or an
attempt to attract more male viewers to a show that generally features young
teenage girls singing magical songs and bishounen with no shirts on.
> > 3 - Shoujo series often have the lead character agonizing over which guy
> she
> > likes and sometimes includes a male harem.
> >
>
> "Shoujo" as a marketing term refers to anime that generally appeals to
> female audiences.
Indeed. But it's true that shoujo series often feature this (to take a
recent example, Fruits Basket) . "Bishoujo" shows don't feature lead female
characters in the prescribed role, however. I think it's obvious that
bishoujo shows aren't designed for female audiences...
> > 4 - Bishoujo series often have the lead character being relentlessly
> pursued
> > by a steadily increasing number of steadily increasingly "well endowed"
> > girls. The male lead is also often embarrassed by this attention -
> > particularly in post 1990 series.
> >
>
> "Bishoujo" is not an anime genre as I said before.
Fine. Then it's a characteristic of shounen that Mr. Baranyi (and myself,
personally) find distasteful.
> By the way, Dave, if you have issues with shoujo or bishoujo anime, then
you
> should have have issues with shounen, yaoi, or shounen-ai anime as well.
> Would you complain if these anime genres dominate the summer schedule?
I don't think that Mr. Baranyi has any "issues" with shoujo whatsoever,
other than what's good or bad - judging from favourable opinions on shows
such as Princess Tutu, KareKano, Furuba and Juuni Kokki, and
not-so-favourable on Tokyo Mew Mew, Full Moon wo Sagashite, Mirumo de Pon!
etc.. Looking waaay back in the archives he enjoyed Yami no Matsuei and the
first part of Kaikan Phrase (both of which are fairly shounen-ai (alright,
YnM is VERY shounen ai...), and is an avid follower of One Piece and
Meitantei Conan (shounen).
I think if any type of show dominated the schedule (aside from a rash of
absolute masterpieces, obviously ^_^) there'd be grounds for complaint. One
of the joys of anime is that there's so much to choose from - from Princess
Nine to Gravitation, from Utena to Dragonball, Sugar to Hellsing and so on
and so forth. To my mind, this summer IS dominated by shows which feature
"bishoujo" characteristics, which isn't something that particularly
interests me, and suggests a lack of variety after a year that's seen a show
about flying pop groups to the moon, demonic detectives, international air
ship wars and surreal road trips to Paradise. Meanwhile, for those who do
like them, it's obviously a gold mine!
I can't complain, however - last summer gave us Princess Tutu and Witch
Hunter Robin, so I can't have everything. Bring on October - I'm looking
forward to Chrno Crusade, Full Metal Alchemist and Peacemaker Kurogane in
particular, and I'm sure more will turn up...it's only three months, anyway.
> ------------------------------------
> Megami Magazine Fan Service:
> http://megami2003.tripod.com
> "Fan service not found in Newtype USA"
And I think that about sums up what the position is. Some people like shows
featuring the characteristics described as "bishoujo", and some don't.
Obviously, from your comments and the fact that you advertise a page devoted
to what is basically Anime Boobs Monthly, you like them. Others don't.
Andrew H
AstroNerdBoy
Say *intelligent* things? Osaka? Tomo? *lol*
For starters, AD had great seiyuu's! They really brought the
characters to life. I've read some of the comic strips and those were
done really well. It made me even more impressed with the anime since
making a comic strip come to life isn't as easy as it seems ("Dilbert"
and "Baby Blues" as examples in the US).
But you are right. The characters were all ones that people could
relate to. Calling it the "Seinfeld" of anime isn't a stretch.
"Seinfeld" was a show about "nothing" and AD is also a show about
"nothing" -- nothing but what we all go through in life. IF ADV does
the English version of "Azumanga Daioh" right, I could see this
becoming a hit with normal American cartoon crowd. The finer points
of young Chiyo-chan demanding an underclassman address her as "sempai"
may not be understood, but if they leave the term in there with a
blurb somewhere explaining why "sempai" is so important in Japanese
society, it will educate AND entertain. ;-)
-Earl, who can't wait to buy AD when it comes out.
AstroNerdBoy
Would the following be bishoujo titles:
"Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki"
"Love Hina"
"Oh My Goddess"
"Chobits"
"Ai Yori Aoshi"
"Onegai Teacher"
-E
Galen Musbach
<a.holl...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Sidhartha" <sid@deademail> wrote in message
>news:eSWdnSNfQ99...@comcast.com
(snip)
>and so forth. To my mind, this summer IS dominated by shows which feature
>"bishoujo" characteristics, which isn't something that particularly
>interests me, and suggests a lack of variety after a year that's seen a show
>about flying pop groups to the moon, demonic detectives, international air
>ship wars and surreal road trips to Paradise. Meanwhile, for those who do
>like them, it's obviously a gold mine!
>
>I can't complain, however - last summer gave us Princess Tutu and Witch
>Hunter Robin, so I can't have everything. Bring on October - I'm looking
>forward to Chrno Crusade, Full Metal Alchemist and Peacemaker Kurogane in
>particular, and I'm sure more will turn up...it's only three months, anyway.
>
We have _Astro Boy ATOM_ this year; it is a
masterpiece that makes up for everything
else that is lacking.
I also like Cinderella Boy.
And, Ultra Maniac is shoujo, not Bishoujo.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
wrote:
Most of those are Magical Girlfriend stories.
Popotan is bishoujo.
-Galen
>
>-E
tito
>
>Would the following be bishoujo titles:
>
>"Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki"
>"Love Hina"
>"Oh My Goddess"
>"Chobits"
>"Ai Yori Aoshi"
>"Onegai Teacher"
With some variation, yup. As mentioned DatingSim and LoveComedy-based
series are mainstays of male audiences, so you'd expect to find lots
of cute girls in them.
If you wanna be picky, OMG & Onegai Teacher could technically be
exceptions, since the predominant characters in both (Belldandy or
Mizuho) are grown women. It's interesting both these series also
feature a strict malelead/femalelead monogamous setup.
Chobits I'm also not sure of, since mostly everyone in CLAMP is pretty
most of the time. :D
Ethan Hammond
>
> >She likes the fancy oil too, at least on one of the radio dramas.
> >Hee hee. ^_-
>
>
> Mom's Robot Oil?
I dunno the brand name but she has to have a chip replaced and after
that Papa san says he has to cut back and save money. And she says
this is a different oil than usual and is all silly.
paranormalized
<davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>"paranormalized" <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
>news:7h8fhvgji5po4bgv5...@4ax.com...
*snip recommend for Yukikaze*
>
>No - I haven't seen Yukikaze - my comments are based upon the ads I've seen
>for it in print and on trailers on TV tapes. It may be a break-through
>series, but nothing I've seen has caused me to want to buy it. I have a
>general rule of thumb about film, including anime - if the ads or trailers
>don't seem interesting, or seem bad, there is a very small chance that I'll
>like the actual film, since the trailers in particular usually show the best
>of the film. I'm sometimes wrong, but not often. And at a typical cost of
>around $50 for a R2 DVD, I try hard to minimize the number of "Mouse"-type
>failures I buy.
>
*shrug* It will come out R1 eventually. Check some more reviews
then, but the atmosphere is more Mamoru Oshii than Jerry
Bruckenheimer.(sp?) Movie Oshii, not tv series Oshii, if you were
looking for comedic bits.
>> Hmmm, Crest of the Stars, 12 Kingdoms, Yukikaze... what are the *bad*
>> anime that were based on novels? ;)
>>
>
>"Patapata Hikosen no Boken", aka, "Secret of the Cerulean Sands" .
>
>> Never got around to seeing Macross Zero, and dunno if it's licensed
>> yet. Probably an eventual given, anyways, though.
>>
>>
>> Though for space opera/empire depiction like CotS, wasn't there a
>> thread re:Legend of the Galactic Heroes just a while back? Too
>> expensive for me, but whatever...
>>
>
>I realize that "Crest" is a "Holy Cow" around raam, but I really, really
>disliked the series, despite sitting all the way through it. And yes, I have
>read a lot of sci-fi over the past 45 or so years that I've been reading - I
>still have my collection of sci-fi mags that goes back into the early 1930's
>( Including essentially all digest-sized sci-fi mags from 1950 - 1990. Anime
>is just another expensive hobby to me. ) Maybe I'm just a grouchy old fart
>nowadays, but I do want to see more in current sci-fi writing, for print or
>film, than pulp authors were writing in the 1950's.
>
Well, I actually haven't seen all of Crest, so I can't rebut this
argument well. Just the first two eps and the last one. Can't really
imagine a political system in the future that could create a *truly*
benevolent Nobility Class, unless someone invents the truth serum, but
it *seems* like it may be a fun romp once you swallow that whale.
Just giving my perspective. :P
Hmmm, the Benevolent Monarch works in fantasy because the corrective
force of Diety, essentially. But sci-fi usually implies either
agnosticism or heavily non-involved Higher Powers, so we always
default to the self-correctiveness of Democracy/Republic for
believable 'good governments.' Heck, even Ian M. Banks' the Culture
does this somewhat.(vote to decide for/against war) Weird. You would
have thought people would have been more inventive in the spec-fic
world...
Bad Governments, of course, run the spectrum of pretty much all other
alternatives. ;)
>> In any case, I've heard LotGH was based on a novel/series too. So it
>> seems that all the *really* good sci-fi world builders are working in
>> novels, not original anime screenplays, anyways. Not surprising, when
>> you think about it, and consider the benefits/disadvantages of each
>> art form.
>>
>
>Sci-fi has traditionally translated poorly from print to screen - it's
>easier to remember the failures than the successes. But then, that's the
>whole basis of the century-long "the book is better than the movie"
>argument, so I'm not going to bother going into that here - enought people
>do it for manga vs anime.
>
*shrug* Fantasy has fared worse, traditionally, in the transition.
Believable mythical creatures and immersive, 'natural' areas are
tougher than robotics and enclosed spaces, with a couple models thrown
in. We'll see better in the future for both genres, though the more
cerebral works will stay well beyond economic reach until they can be
made on art-film dollars. It's the whole "large barriers-to-entry
reduces the diversity of a industry" thing going on here.
>Take care -
>
>Dave Baranyi
>
Sure. Take care yourself. Can't have our newsgroup losing our
biggest provider of R2 reviews!
Jonathan Fisher
----------
paranormalized man, subnormalized otaku
ROT13 and then delete all instances of the letter after P to email
Dave Baranyi
"paranormalized" <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:19:42 GMT, "Dave Baranyi"
> <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"paranormalized" <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
> >news:7h8fhvgji5po4bgv5...@4ax.com...
> *snip recommend for Yukikaze*
> >
> >No - I haven't seen Yukikaze - my comments are based upon the ads I've
seen
> >for it in print and on trailers on TV tapes. It may be a break-through
> >series, but nothing I've seen has caused me to want to buy it. I have a
> >general rule of thumb about film, including anime - if the ads or
trailers
> >don't seem interesting, or seem bad, there is a very small chance that
I'll
> >like the actual film, since the trailers in particular usually show the
best
> >of the film. I'm sometimes wrong, but not often. And at a typical cost of
> >around $50 for a R2 DVD, I try hard to minimize the number of
"Mouse"-type
> >failures I buy.
> >
> *shrug* It will come out R1 eventually. Check some more reviews
> then, but the atmosphere is more Mamoru Oshii than Jerry
> Bruckenheimer.(sp?) Movie Oshii, not tv series Oshii, if you were
> looking for comedic bits.
>
>
The Oshii work that more Oshii fans should see, if only as an "education" in
experimental film, is "Gosenzosama Ban Ban Zai".
Actually, come to think of it, it's too bad that some US firm hasn't picked
up the rights - in comparison it would make most viewers feel that "Lain"
was ordinary... <g>
Dave Baranyi
paranormalized
<davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>"paranormalized" <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
>news:buophv40unlcf3cin...@4ax.com...
*snip Yukikaze disc*
>> *shrug* It will come out R1 eventually. Check some more reviews
>> then, but the atmosphere is more Mamoru Oshii than Jerry
>> Bruckenheimer.(sp?) Movie Oshii, not tv series Oshii, if you were
>> looking for comedic bits.
>>
>>
>
>The Oshii work that more Oshii fans should see, if only as an "education" in
>experimental film, is "Gosenzosama Ban Ban Zai".
>
>Actually, come to think of it, it's too bad that some US firm hasn't picked
>up the rights - in comparison it would make most viewers feel that "Lain"
>was ordinary... <g>
>
Well. Don't think I've heard that title before. The way you phrase
things, it makes me think it weirder than "Angel's Egg," which kind of
both scares me and attracts me...
>Dave Baranyi
>
Jonathan Fisher
what *has* Oshii been up to since that live action thing? Was the
aforementioned title it?
D B Malmquist
>
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:41:51 GMT, "Dave Baranyi"
> <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote:
> >The Oshii work that more Oshii fans should see, if only as an "education" in
> >experimental film, is "Gosenzosama Ban Ban Zai".
> >
> >Actually, come to think of it, it's too bad that some US firm hasn't picked
> >up the rights - in comparison it would make most viewers feel that "Lain"
> >was ordinary... <g>
> >
> Well. Don't think I've heard that title before. The way you phrase
> things, it makes me think it weirder than "Angel's Egg," which kind of
> both scares me and attracts me...
>
> >Dave Baranyi
> >
> Jonathan Fisher
> what *has* Oshii been up to since that live action thing? Was the
> aforementioned title it?
Oshii's live-action movie was called "Avalon". Or was there
another?
- dbm
D B Malmquist
<<snip>>
> The Tenshi no Shippo Chu Omake episodes show a better grasp
> of real ecology than does Earth Girl Arjuna -- "You want to eat me!"
For a story with a real grasp of ecology (plus many other things),
try "Earth Abides", by George R Stewart, written in 1949.
- dbm
Dave Baranyi
"paranormalized" <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in message
No - "Gosenzosama Ban Ban Zai" is a 6-part OAV ( also remade into a movie )
from 1989. It was re-released as a DVD box set a couple of years ago. It's
deliberately done as "theater of the absurd" - think of it as anime done by
Samuel Becket and you'll come pretty close to the style. I posted a review
here a couple of years ago - if you are interested I can either send a copy
to you or re-post it.
D B Malmquist
>
> "Dave Baranyi" <davenosp...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<FDoRa.7396$Ci2....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
> >> > Oh, you're being a bit too hard on the current crop of shows.
> Narutaru,
> > > Cinderella Boy and Sumeba Miyako no Cosmos-sou Suttoko Taisen Dokkoida
> > > are all good show. You should look for those if you can.
> >
> > Narutaru looks to be just more of the same bishoujo crap - how is it
> > different? ( I tend to read the Japanese "official" sites - if the hype
> > there suggests that a given show is the s.o.c. ( same old crap ), why should
> > I not believe them. )
> >
> Unless Narutaru is severely different from the manga (released by Dark
> Horse under the name "Shadow Star", it's not typical bishojo. No
> matter what the first chapter might make it look like. The manga very
> quickly turns rather dark, both physically (quite a bit of death) and
> psychologically (the protagonist's mother isn't exactly supportive, if
> you know what I mean).
>
> Note that I'm not saying that you'll like it. But it's not a shiny
> happy "look at all them pretty girls" manga.
After having seen the first four episodes of the TV series, I
can affirm that "Narutaru" feels nothing at all like a bishoujo
series. Closer to "Lord of the Flies", maybe? Or "Pokemon"
meets "Boogiepop Phantom", perhaps?
- dbm