Iron Giant vs Laputa: plagiarism, coincidence or Lying King syndrome?
Derek Janssen
>
> While I saw Laputa several times, I must admit I haven't seen the Iron
> Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
> summary I had the impression that a certain piece in the Laputa movie
> was decribed.
>
<snip>
>
> Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
> have a distinct deja vu impression?
>
> Can anyone who has seen the two movies either confirm or contradict
> this?
Before you go off on your theories, take time to also view the Fleischer
Superman "Metal Monsters", and Miyazaki's "Aloha, Lupin" episode, to
determine who's cameoing in what...
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
Joris Van Dingenen
Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
summary I had the impression that a certain piece in the Laputa movie
was decribed.
Some similarities:
The characterdesign of the robot is similar
In both cases he fell from the sky
In both cases he tries to protect a child.
Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
have a distinct deja vu impression?
Can anyone who has seen the two movies either confirm or contradict
this?
(And tell in the same time if the Iron Giantmovie is any good)
Regards
Joris
--
E-mail: Joris.Va...@advalvas.be
Website: http://users.pandora.be/joris.van.dingenen/index.html ***UPDATED***
Visit my Mononoke Hime Page at http://users.pandora.be/joris.van.dingenen/mononoke/index.html
Derek Sherman
>While I saw Laputa several times, I must admit I haven't seen the Iron
>Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
>summary I had the impression that a certain piece in the Laputa movie
>was decribed.
>
>Some similarities:
>
>The characterdesign of the robot is similar
>In both cases he fell from the sky
>In both cases he tries to protect a child.
Aside from the first example (which I can't comment on because I haven't
see Laputa yet), the last two are rather typical plot devices. Superman
did it. Iron Giant did it. That goofy Hulk Hogan movie did it. Lots of
movies and TV shows and such did it. I don't think it's a conspiracy or
anything.
>Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
>have a distinct deja vu impression?
>
>Can anyone who has seen the two movies either confirm or contradict
>this?
>(And tell in the same time if the Iron Giantmovie is any good)
I loved the Iron Giant. Thought it was an excellent flick, although the
animation is purposefully retro - effectively so, since it is set in the
late 50's. To the point of throwing in a bunch of 50's-era "weapons from
outer space" type gizmoes in as well. I thought it was excellent. Of
course, opinions vary.
Derek
Invid Fan
<Joris.Va...@advalvas.be> wrote:
> While I saw Laputa several times, I must admit I haven't seen the Iron
> Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
> summary I had the impression that a certain piece in the Laputa movie
> was decribed.
>
> Some similarities:
>
> The characterdesign of the robot is similar
Based on 1940's superman cartoons :)
> In both cases he fell from the sky
> In both cases he tries to protect a child.
>
> Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
> have a distinct deja vu impression?
>
Iron Giant is based on a 40 year old English novel (the old Black
Sabath song "Iron Man" was as well), so if anyone is doing the
"borrowing" it's Laputa. This is what happens when someone finaly
adapts the story everyone else has stolen ideas from ^_^
--
Chris Mack "You do NOT, I repeat, do NOT ask a guest in my
'Invid Fan' home to make a PILLAR OF FIRE!!"
"I asked him IF he knew how!! IF! IF! IF!!"
In...@localnet.com -Cerebus:Jaka's Story
Otto
invented everything that exists in SF.
"Yeah, sand. Herbert _pioneered_ the use of sand in SF..."
Commodore Otto
Mike Mr. Groovy Toole
>
> The characterdesign of the robot is similar
The shape of the head is vaguely similar, but that's about it; other than
that, the robots look DRASTICALLY different.
> In both cases he fell from the sky
The Iron Giant came from outer space, not a flying island. ^_-
> In both cases he tries to protect a child.
The robot/golem(?) in Laputa protect Sheeta because it's programmed to.
In the Iron Giant, our hero, Hogarth, actually has to befriend the giant
and win its trust (not difficult for him, since he's free of prejudice and
the giant is scared and confused). Dissimilar, I think.
> Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
> have a distinct deja vu impression?
Nope. The Iron Giant stands tall on its own merits; I heartily recommend
it. I didn't notice a similarity to Laputa until you pointed it out. ^^
--
www.animejump.com
Webzine, isn't it?
Emily Horner
it really paralleled Saber Marionette J, especially the ending. At the end, I
practically shouted, "Oh yeah! I KNEW that was going to happen!"...
Not that I think it's a case of plagiarism or anything. More a case of great
minds thinking alike, perhaps.
-The Sewing Minion
Enrique Conty
Joris Van Dingenen <Joris.Va...@advalvas.be> wrote:
>Some similarities:
>The characterdesign of the robot is similar
>
>have a distinct deja vu impression?
Just you. I've seen both films, not even close.
(Actually, if you even think there's a similarity after
having seen both... you may need to get out more... ^_^;;)
--
E n r i q u e C o n t y
co...@enteract.com
http://www.enteract.com/~conty/
Official Home of The Great Anime Sub Sale
Christopher J. Sypal
Joris.Va...@advalvas.be (Joris Van Dingenen) wrote:
>While I saw Laputa several times, I must admit I haven't seen the Iron
>Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
Um, try watching the movie before you make any comments about it.
Of course,a few elements in Laputa aren't all that original (like...
it's title :)
>(And tell in the same time if the Iron Giantmovie is any good)
Damn good. Highly recommended.
{Christopher J. Sypal -- csy...@radiks.net}
[ The Domestic Anime CD Guide ]
[ http://www.radiks.net/csypal/cds/ ]
Mark L. Neidengard
Joris Van Dingenen <Joris.Va...@advalvas.be> wrote:
>While I saw Laputa several times, I must admit I haven't seen the Iron
>Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
>was decribed.
>
>
>The characterdesign of the robot is similar
I'll grant that the character design of the robot has some superficial
similarities. When I saw IG though I thought the robot was deliberately drawn
to resemble the "pop" depiction of robots from the US at the time. The Laputa
robots didn't seem to "resemble" much of anything except generic Miyazaki
tech. ^_^
>In both cases he fell from the sky
>In both cases he tries to protect a child.
I hate to say it, but if you see Laputa you'll find that this is a pretty big
stretch. The falling from the sky in Laputa is a strictly ancillary plot
point, and the robot in question is completely inert (and considerably damaged)
when it does so. And the protecting a child bit goes down under radically
different circumstances.
>Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
>have a distinct deja vu impression?
Sorry, can't say that there are.
>(And tell in the same time if the Iron Giantmovie is any good)
Yes, IG is very good - I daresay, one of the most worthwhile pieces of US
cinematic animation of the decade.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, EE Grad, VLSI. http://keyframe.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Demian Phillips
>In article <38674545...@news.pandora.be>, Joris Van Dingenen
><Joris.Va...@advalvas.be> wrote:
>
>> While I saw Laputa several times, I must admit I haven't seen the Iron
>> Giant movie yet but when I saw the trailer and the photos and read the
>> summary I had the impression that a certain piece in the Laputa movie
>> was decribed.
>>
>> Some similarities:
>>
>> The characterdesign of the robot is similar
>
>Based on 1940's superman cartoons :)
>
>> In both cases he fell from the sky
>> In both cases he tries to protect a child.
>>
>> Is it just me or are there enough similarities in these two movies to
>> have a distinct deja vu impression?
>>
>Iron Giant is based on a 40 year old English novel (the old Black
>Sabath song "Iron Man" was as well), so if anyone is doing the
>"borrowing" it's Laputa. This is what happens when someone finaly
>adapts the story everyone else has stolen ideas from ^_^
Um.
Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's and I
had thought it was written then. I'll have to check the bio.
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
Invid Fan
Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
> Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
> >Iron Giant is based on a 40 year old English novel (the old Black
> >Sabath song "Iron Man" was as well), so if anyone is doing the
> >"borrowing" it's Laputa. This is what happens when someone finaly
> >adapts the story everyone else has stolen ideas from ^_^
>
> Um.
> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's and I
> had thought it was written then. I'll have to check the bio.
>
I'm more then willing to be wrong on the date, as I've never read it.
It's still pre-Laputa :)
SPOOOOOOOOOOOON
> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to another company
in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
------------------------------------------------------
101 TOP THINGS TO DO AFTER WINNING THE $65M POWERBALL
#12: fund a new season of Reboot, so that Mairi Welman can
refocus on answering queries as to the coming of season five. <g>
Demian Phillips
><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
>
>
>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to another company
>in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>101 TOP THINGS TO DO AFTER WINNING THE $65M POWERBALL
>
>#12: fund a new season of Reboot, so that Mairi Welman can
>refocus on answering queries as to the coming of season five. <g>
LOLROF
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
Enrique Conty
Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
>micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
>><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
>>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
>>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
>>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to
>>another company in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
>
>Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
>story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
lawyers....
Otto
wrote:
>micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
>
>><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
>>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
>>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
>>
>>
>>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to another company
>>in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
>
>Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
>story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
"The Iron Man: A Story in 5 Nights" is much too long to fit on a movie
poster.
And besides, even if the copyright lawyers didn't get it, people who
watched the movie would be wondering where Tony Stark and that
red-and-gold guy went.
Commodore "Or the guy with a drill for a dick, but I doubt many people
have actually seen that one" Otto
Antaeus Feldspar
> micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
>
> ><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
> >> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
> >> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
> >
> >
> >Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to another
> >company in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
>
> Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
> story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
Not nearly different enough for U.S. legal purposes. That's why
"Pocket Monsters" became "Pokemon" for the US market: some other
company already had rights to "Monster in My Pocket", and NOA didn't
feel like risking lawsuits over such a potentially valuable property
over something that could be avoided with a relatively simple name
change.
-jc
--
* -jc IS *NOW* feld...@cryogen.com
* Home page: http://members.tripod.com/~afeldspar/index.html
* The home of >>Failed Pilots Playhouse<<
* "Better you hold me close than understand..." Thomas Dolby
Demian Phillips
>In article <p4ih6s898p7q8nibg...@4ax.com>,
>Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
>>micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
>>><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
>>>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
>>>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
>>>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to
>>>another company in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
>>
>>Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
>>story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
>
>Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
>lawyers....
They didn't have a problem when Pete Townsend did the CD based on it
and called it "Iron Man".
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
Demian Phillips
>>
>> Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
>> story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
>
> Not nearly different enough for U.S. legal purposes. That's why
>"Pocket Monsters" became "Pokemon" for the US market: some other
>company already had rights to "Monster in My Pocket", and NOA didn't
>feel like risking lawsuits over such a potentially valuable property
>over something that could be avoided with a relatively simple name
>change.
>
see my comment to Conty
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
Invid Fan
Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
> co...@enteract.com (Enrique Conty) wrote:
>
> >Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
> >lawyers....
>
> They didn't have a problem when Pete Townsend did the CD based on it
> and called it "Iron Man".
>
Because a) he's British, b) there's been a British song with that title
for almost 30 years (Black Sabath's "Iron Man"), c) it's a cd not
targeted at Marvel's audience, d) there's no possibilty of his rock
opera being confused with Marvel's character. OTOH, if someone went up
to a US teen and said "Hey, I hear there's an animated Iron Man movie
coming out!", they'll assume it's based on the superhero.
Antaeus Feldspar
> co...@enteract.com (Enrique Conty) wrote:
>
> >In article <p4ih6s898p7q8nibg...@4ax.com>,
> >Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
> >>micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
> >>><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
> >>>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
> >>>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
> >>>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to
> >>>another company in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
> >>
> >>Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
> >>story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
> >
> >Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
> >lawyers....
>
> They didn't have a problem when Pete Townsend did the CD based on it
> and called it "Iron Man".
That's because no one's going to mistake a CD for a comic book
or vice-versa. You might say, "Well, no one's going to mistake a comic
book for a regular book, either" (*was* Hughes' book straight prose, or
was it illustrated?) But if Marvel had allowed it to go forward, and
later decided they wanted to publish a prose novel about Tony Stark,
Iron Man, they might have faced lawsuits from *Hughes*, that they were
infringing upon his trademarks by so doing.
Of course, no one could have foreseen the current craziness that
has been happening in trademark law. eToys, a company that didn't even
exist until the online boom, only recently resolved a suit it brought
against a site called "etoy.com"... which existed before "eToys" was
even founded, let alone "etoys.com" registered. Even more grotesquely,
a French company founded within the past five years called "Leonardo
Finance" brought legal action against a journal of the arts called
"Leonardo" published by MIT, which is about 30 years old. The basis of
their complaint? That a search for "Leonardo" brought up the MIT
journal as well as their own company's website. The true shocker? On
the basis of such a patently stupid claim, they actually got the Boston
police to conduct a search on the premises of the MIT journal.
Avery Davies
Invid Fan wrote:
> Because a) he's British, b) there's been a British song with that title
> for almost 30 years (Black Sabath's "Iron Man"), c) it's a cd not
> targeted at Marvel's audience, d) there's no possibilty of his rock
> opera being confused with Marvel's character. OTOH, if someone went up
> to a US teen and said "Hey, I hear there's an animated Iron Man movie
> coming out!", they'll assume it's based on the superhero.
The sad thing is, if they left the title as the Iron Man, they probably
would have done more business just be cause of that reason.
--
This is the Avery Davies within your computer.
'Tyler's words coming out of my mouth. I used to be such a nice person.'
- Jack, Fight Club
Alun Jones
> Of course, no one could have foreseen the current craziness that
> has been happening in trademark law. eToys, a company that didn't even
> exist until the online boom, only recently resolved a suit it brought
> against a site called "etoy.com"... which existed before "eToys" was
> even founded, let alone "etoys.com" registered. Even more grotesquely,
> a French company founded within the past five years called "Leonardo
> Finance" brought legal action against a journal of the arts called
> "Leonardo" published by MIT, which is about 30 years old. The basis of
> their complaint? That a search for "Leonardo" brought up the MIT
> journal as well as their own company's website. The true shocker? On
> the basis of such a patently stupid claim, they actually got the Boston
> police to conduct a search on the premises of the MIT journal.
Nothing new under the sun. Let's see if I can roughly remember the story
(dates and one name and rank are guessed):
"Pupils, I have a letter to read to you that I received this morning:
Dear Headmaster,
It has come to our attention that your school's rowing crews are using a
blade with two burgundy stripes across a navy blue background. This has
been the emblem of the Royal Engineers' boating club since 1936, and we
would be most appreciative if you would not use this on your school's oars.
Yours, etc, Fortesque Smythe, Lieutenant Colonel.
"I have pleasure in reading to you my response.
Dear Lieutenant Colonel Fortesque Smythe,
Tiffin Boys' School has used this device on its oars since the school was
founded - in 1880. We would therefore be grateful if the Royal Engineers
were to remove this symbol from _their_ oars.
Yours, etc, JJ Harper, _Brigadier_."
[Corrections to this story from old Tiffs are, of course, welcome]
Alun.
~~~~
P.S. Just got DirecTV - when our free two months of all the movie channels
dies out, which one is worth keeping for Anime? Currently, I'm looking at
the Action channel, which seems to have a committed time-slot on Sundays,
and an occasional run of Anime movies on Saturdays.
--
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1602 Harvest Moon Place | at web site http://www.wftpd.com or email
Cedar Park TX 78613 | us at al...@texis.com. VISA / MC accepted.
Fax +1 (512) 378 3246 | NT based ISPs, be sure to read details of
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Dan Helmick
: Of course, no one could have foreseen the current craziness that
: has been happening in trademark law.
Patent law is plumbing incredible depths of stupidity, too, as biotech firms
in the U.S. and Japan are slapping international patents on existing plant
species. India has already had to fight patents on basmati rice, turmeric and
tamarind; indigenous cultures are having it tougher as patents on their local
medicinal plants make it illegal for them to harvest and utilize them.
Dan
--
Demian Phillips
>In article <tj8k6s8ca4f9hgqe6...@4ax.com>, Demian
>Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
>
>> co...@enteract.com (Enrique Conty) wrote:
>>
>
>> >Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
>> >lawyers....
>>
>> They didn't have a problem when Pete Townsend did the CD based on it
>> and called it "Iron Man".
>>
>Because a) he's British, b) there's been a British song with that title
>for almost 30 years (Black Sabath's "Iron Man"), c) it's a cd not
>targeted at Marvel's audience, d) there's no possibilty of his rock
>opera being confused with Marvel's character. OTOH, if someone went up
>to a US teen and said "Hey, I hear there's an animated Iron Man movie
>coming out!", they'll assume it's based on the superhero.
I know. but still. I think that would be a good thing because maybe
the people would still watch it and enjoy it.
I't wasn't like they were claiming it is marvels iron man.
Also wasn't there a musical as well?(maybe ties into the townsend
thing)
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
Demian Phillips
>Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
>
>> co...@enteract.com (Enrique Conty) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <p4ih6s898p7q8nibg...@4ax.com>,
>> >Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
>> >>micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
>> >>><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
>> >>>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
>> >>>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
>> >>>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to
>> >>>another company in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
>> >>
>> >>Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
>> >>story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
>> >
>> >Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
>> >lawyers....
>>
>> They didn't have a problem when Pete Townsend did the CD based on it
>> and called it "Iron Man".
>
> That's because no one's going to mistake a CD for a comic book
>or vice-versa. You might say, "Well, no one's going to mistake a comic
>book for a regular book, either" (*was* Hughes' book straight prose, or
>was it illustrated?) But if Marvel had allowed it to go forward, and
>later decided they wanted to publish a prose novel about Tony Stark,
>Iron Man, they might have faced lawsuits from *Hughes*, that they were
>infringing upon his trademarks by so doing.
Text with some illustrations. Think alice in wonderland.
I think iron man novelizations may exist. I know that spider man,
superman, hulk, surfer, and a few others have been.
> Of course, no one could have foreseen the current craziness that
>has been happening in trademark law. eToys, a company that didn't even
>exist until the online boom, only recently resolved a suit it brought
>against a site called "etoy.com"... which existed before "eToys" was
>even founded, let alone "etoys.com" registered. Even more grotesquely,
>a French company founded within the past five years called "Leonardo
>Finance" brought legal action against a journal of the arts called
>"Leonardo" published by MIT, which is about 30 years old. The basis of
>their complaint? That a search for "Leonardo" brought up the MIT
>journal as well as their own company's website. The true shocker? On
>the basis of such a patently stupid claim, they actually got the Boston
>police to conduct a search on the premises of the MIT journal.
>
That first one with e-toy really pissed me off because CA had no
jurisdiction, and they are in 2 separate businesses. (also if etoys
hadn't had their heads so far up their asses they would just have
asked etoy to put a link on their page with the etoys logo to say
"Were you looking for etoys?" I have seen a number of other web sites
do this.
I still say kill all the humans.
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
Thomas Riggin
Antaeus Feldspar wrote:
> Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
>
> > co...@enteract.com (Enrique Conty) wrote:
> >
> > >In article <p4ih6s898p7q8nibg...@4ax.com>,
> > >Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote:
> > >>micr...@aol.com (SPOOOOOOOOOOOON) wrote:
> > >>><<> Ted Hughes the author and late poet loriet wrote "the iron man: a
> > >>>> story in 5 days". (I don't understand why in america it couldn't be
> > >>>> called "The Iron Man") I know it was published in the early 70's>>
> > >>>Because it came out after the name "Iron Man" was registered to
> > >>>another company in the US, namely Marvel Comics.
> > >>
> > >>Yah, but this would not be "iron man" this would be "The Iron Man: a
> > >>story in 5 nights" rather different title no?
> > >
> > >Try convincing Marvel Comics of that. They have some truly ornery
> > >lawyers....
> >
> > They didn't have a problem when Pete Townsend did the CD based on it
> > and called it "Iron Man".
>
> That's because no one's going to mistake a CD for a comic book
> or vice-versa. You might say, "Well, no one's going to mistake a comic
> book for a regular book, either" (*was* Hughes' book straight prose, or
> was it illustrated?) But if Marvel had allowed it to go forward, and
> later decided they wanted to publish a prose novel about Tony Stark,
> Iron Man, they might have faced lawsuits from *Hughes*, that they were
> infringing upon his trademarks by so doing.
The change from "The Iron Man" to "The Iron Giant" was probably very
desirable to the filmmakers. It captures the two key physical traits of the
character and avoids an unwanted and unneeded identification with Marvel's
character. Keep in mind as well that "IG" was produced by a division of Time
Warner, owner of DC Comics (whose bread & butter character is liberally
referenced in the film) whose main competitor is Marvel Comics. In other
words, why engineer a situation which could result in negative publicity or
possible legal harassment at the hands of a competitor?
As to the comments of the original poster regarding possible resemblance of
the Giant to Miyazaki's robots, I'd like to say that the American animation
community is well aware of Miyazaki's work. Many of us are fans. While
there are almost certainly tips of the hat to Miyazaki in "IG", there's
nothing even remotely plagaristic going on here.
Best wishes for you in 2000.
-Tom
Christopher Biow
>Antaeus Feldspar (feld...@cryogen.com) wrote:
>: Of course, no one could have foreseen the current craziness that
>: has been happening in trademark law.
>Patent law is plumbing incredible depths of stupidity, too, as biotech firms...
Even stupider is software patents in general, trivial ones in particular,
and "business process" patents. Copyright law has gotten incredible, often
absurd legal reach. Intellectual property law seems to have become broken
by sheer overreach.
This just as technologies are emerging that may make them irrelevant. If
one projects Napster forward by an order of bandwidth and storage magnitude
(five years?), there may be no way to enforce even video copyrights.
Remuneration for the creators may have to come from some other means.
Avatar
You'd be surprised. Companies -have- to be able to expect that there
won't be a large displacement of their sales by copyright
infringement... or they'll get out of the business of PROVIDING
intellectual property. This is why we won't see music delivery over the
Web anytime soon... not that a lot of that doesn't go on already,
unofficially.
Eventually, if current trends continue... well, nothing. Piracy isn't on
a runaway rise, and the rewards of being a hit musician still are much
more attractive than working as, say, an accountant, so that's not in
danger anytime soon. However, if things were to get worse, then less IP
will be created.
You want loony? Try reading a software usage license agreement. To be
honest, I find it a little ridiculous... the software industry has
-much- greater IP protection than other types of IP, and you're right,
it does get crazy. (What, I have two computers at home, I should buy two
copies of Windows? O_O) Hopefully, the "trivial" patents (are you
referring to the guy who tried to patent the technique of 'windowing'
for Y2K? <snort>) will get thrown out in legal challenges as obviously
ludicrous.
Avatar
Aneptina
series around in the 40s(?) with the jewel thief robots episode - that later
influenced Hayao Miyazaki's Laputa, etc., which may have influenced the guys at
WB for Iron Giant. These are different stories and not quite like the "big D"
Lying King ripoff - but the robots were very similar - probably a tipping of
the hat to old Max F.
Otto
(warning: tangent bitching thread.)
>You want loony? Try reading a software usage license agreement. To be
>honest, I find it a little ridiculous... the software industry has
>-much- greater IP protection than other types of IP, and you're right,
>it does get crazy. (What, I have two computers at home, I should buy two
>copies of Windows? O_O)
If I have two cars, I have to buy two motors, right?
Commodore Otto
Avatar
Theoretically, no, you wouldn't. But as I'm not about to offer -that- as
a rebuttal...
That's exactly the difference between physical objects and intellectual
property. It's not possible to use one engine to power two cars, but it
is really easy to use software on multiple computers.
Personally, I figure that if I'm entering a license agreement with some
corporation by buying and using software, than I'm licensed to use it on
whatever I'm using at the time. I can't operate two systems concurrently
(other than on batch DLs and stuff, and anyway I just use the other one
for satellite tracking), so there's not really a problem. It's the same
principle as making a single archival copy of a tape; so long as you're
not watching it and the original at the same time, the principle of not
duplicating the item is maintained.
Naturally, software copyright works far differently... damned lobbyists.
^_^;;
Avatar
Porsupah
> Yes, IG is very good - I daresay, one of the most worthwhile pieces of US
> cinematic animation of the decade.
Seconded.
Sadly, another example, along with (again, highly notable) Cats Don't
Dance, of WB admitting defeat in the face of Disney, before even
attempting to market the work. *sigh*
Most unfortunate, but, at least they seem to be putting some genuine
effort into IG's video release.
-- Porsupah
ultra...@my-deja.com
feld...@cryogen.com (Antaeus Feldspar) wrote:
> Not nearly different enough for U.S. legal purposes. That's
why
> "Pocket Monsters" became "Pokemon" for the US market: some other
> company already had rights to "Monster in My Pocket", and NOA didn't
> feel like risking lawsuits over such a potentially valuable property
> over something that could be avoided with a relatively simple name
> change.
Actually, I think Pocket Monsters became Pokemon before coming to the
US. The Japanese language doesn't put consonants together (like the
"nst" in monster) making pronunciation of English words difficult. So
the Japanese abbreviate them by using the first 1 or 2 syllables only.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
katrinka
you know Iron Giant was actually based on a sixties BRITISH children's
book?
So perhaps it's simply a cooincidence!
Pete townshend even wrote a musical about it!
--
Katr...@flash.net
Vist My Sentai/Metal Hero/Anime Page!
http://members.tripod.com/~katrinkak/sentai.html
xxx
wrote:
>Iron Giant is based on a 40 year old English novel (the old Black
>Sabath song "Iron Man" was as well), so if anyone is doing the
>"borrowing" it's Laputa. This is what happens when someone finaly
>adapts the story everyone else has stolen ideas from ^_^
I guess I'm the only one here who's actually read the original book.
The book is almost TOTALLY different from the movie. I mean, in the
book, there's an invading dragon and a battle/contest b/w the two. No
anti gun sentiment, ...
Basically the only thing that contects the two is Hogarth and the
Giant.
Otto
>On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:29:33 -0800, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
>wrote:
>>Iron Giant is based on a 40 year old English novel (the old Black
>>Sabath song "Iron Man" was as well), so if anyone is doing the
>>"borrowing" it's Laputa. This is what happens when someone finaly
>>adapts the story everyone else has stolen ideas from ^_^
>
>I guess I'm the only one here who's actually read the original book.
>The book is almost TOTALLY different from the movie. I mean, in the
>book, there's an invading dragon and a battle/contest b/w the two. No
>anti gun sentiment, ...
Not that there's any in the _movie_, either.
Oh, wait--they said "bad" and "gun" within five or six lines of each
other. Of _COURSE_ the script's just soaked with leftists political
diatribe!
Commodore Otto
Alun Jones
wrote:
> Not that there's any in the _movie_, either.
>
> Oh, wait--they said "bad" and "gun" within five or six lines of each
> other. Of _COURSE_ the script's just soaked with leftists political
> diatribe!
Oh, come _on_ - I mean, it's obvious, isn't it? Iron Giant _equals_ hand
gun. The huge great flying robot forming a friendship with an innocent kid
is exactly equivalent to the way in which liberals portray the sale of hand
guns at gun shows. Yeah, that's it.
Alun.
~~~~
P.S. Haven't seen the movie yet, but I've read the book as a child - forgot
about the dragon, though. :-)
Demian Phillips
>On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:29:33 -0800, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
>wrote:
>>Iron Giant is based on a 40 year old English novel (the old Black
>>Sabath song "Iron Man" was as well), so if anyone is doing the
>>"borrowing" it's Laputa. This is what happens when someone finaly
>>adapts the story everyone else has stolen ideas from ^_^
>
>I guess I'm the only one here who's actually read the original book.
>The book is almost TOTALLY different from the movie. I mean, in the
>book, there's an invading dragon and a battle/contest b/w the two. No
>anti gun sentiment, ...
>
>Basically the only thing that contects the two is Hogarth and the
>Giant.
I have read it.
I think the anti-gun bit was how they chose to show the iron mans
function. (in the book he came to basically keep man from destroying
themselves and nature) hence why he "eats" metal. by removing the
technology of man we cannot wage war, or pave the world.
(I ordered a new copy the x-mas so I will be reading it again)
-
^_^
Demian Phillips
SHogan6742
just to entertain, that's it! I highly doubt the producers and crew
intentionally were creating some sort of dramatic social commentary.
--Se@nocide
Neil Nadelman
>Awww c'mon! Like Freud said sometimes a tree is just a tree! The film was made
>just to entertain, that's it! I highly doubt the producers and crew
>intentionally were creating some sort of dramatic social commentary.
Um, considering the director expressed the anti-gun sentiments
in interviews about the film (and the fairly clear message of "Guns
kill! You don't have to be a gun!"), I'd say he was aiming for some
social commentary here.
By the film's end, you really have to wonder what the Giant's
original purpose was. A friend of mine thinks he's a berserker weapon
left over from some ancient war whose creators are now long dead.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman doc...@channel1.com | The blood still pulses in my veins.
----------------------------------------| The sun, still at its zenith.
I fear nothing in life because | And I... I, Antonius Block...
I've already survived Theta-G! | Am playing chess with Death.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Derek Sherman
>On 18 Jan 2000 21:27:25 GMT, shoga...@aol.com (SHogan6742) wrote:
>
>>Awww c'mon! Like Freud said sometimes a tree is just a tree! The film was made
>>just to entertain, that's it! I highly doubt the producers and crew
>>intentionally were creating some sort of dramatic social commentary.
>
> Um, considering the director expressed the anti-gun sentiments
>in interviews about the film (and the fairly clear message of "Guns
>kill! You don't have to be a gun!"), I'd say he was aiming for some
>social commentary here.
I have to agree. The "Guns kill!" speech kinda smacks you in the face
with it. But at least they didn't beat you over the head with it ^_^
> By the film's end, you really have to wonder what the Giant's
>original purpose was. A friend of mine thinks he's a berserker weapon
>left over from some ancient war whose creators are now long dead.
I don't know about a berserker, but he's definitely a weapon of some
sort. Real question being : what in the world was he doing in our solar
neighborhood? Sent as a preliminary scout for potential invasion?
Blasted off-course by some freak accident? Or what?
Coinsidering how well he dealt with the forces arrayed against him (and
guessing that he could've dealt with a nuke if he was operating in full
"Kick-Ass Mode"), kinda makes you hope it was the "Scouting for an
invasion" option, doesn't it? ^_^
Derek
Demian Phillips
Danielle
before. ( or even knew it existed)
Thanx
Danielle
Demian Phillips wrote in message ...