women in anime
Ian Craig
ask you guys for some help with my indipendant study for media studies
A level (those of you studying media A level in the UK will know what
I'm on about).
Bacically, I've chosen to write a paper on the portrayal of women in
general in Japanese animtion. I have to focus specifically on one text
that was released after sept 2000 so i'm using Blood for that but I
can reference as many diferent media texts as i want. The main points
I am planning to make are that, usually, women in anime are either
presneted as being very strong, sex objects or both with very few
exceptions. I will also talk about how women, even the tough ones, in
anime suffer greatly from the 'male gaze'. Looking at those points,
any help you guys could give me with your ideas, theories or simply
advice would be great.
Cheers!
Ian
Liam Slider
<snip>
<bored monotone>Oh how very exciting, more, "Anime is evil, Men are
pigs" pseudo-intellectualism.</bored monotone>
--
"Sure, the lion is king of the jungle - but airdrop him into Antarctica,
and he's just a penguin's bitch." -- Dennis Miller
Eric Schwartz
> Bacically, I've chosen to write a paper on the portrayal of women in
> general in Japanese animtion. I have to focus specifically on one text
> that was released after sept 2000 so i'm using Blood for that but I
> can reference as many diferent media texts as i want. The main points
> I am planning to make are that, usually, women in anime are either
> presneted as being very strong, sex objects or both with very few
> exceptions.
So you've made up your mind what the answer is, and are only planning
on looking at data that support your thesis? And people wonder why I'm
bitter about the current state of academia.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
Fish Eye no Miko
news:a9100e04.03101...@posting.google.com...
> Hey everyone, first off, I'm new here but I thought it'd be useful
> to ask you guys for some help with my indipendant
Please tell me that's a typo.
> study for media studies A level (those of you studying media A
> level in the UK will know what I'm on about).
> Bacically, I've chosen to write a paper on the portrayal of women in
> general in Japanese animtion.
Ok.
> I have to focus specifically on one text that was released after sept
2000
> so i'm using Blood for that but I can reference as many diferent media
> texts as i want. The main points I am planning to make are that, usually,
> women in anime are either presneted as being very strong, sex objects
> or both with very few exceptions.
Please state your evidence for this.
> Looking at those points, any help you guys could give me with your ideas,
> theories or simply advice would be great.
Advice:
Seeing the spelling and grammar errors in your post, I suggest you learn
either better grammar skills or typing skills.
If you're going to make these claims, I hope you've watched a lot of anime,
or plan to.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"When Catherine thinks you're too gay, you're too gay."
-Rob Fontenot, aka The Midnight Rambler, RATMM.
Travers Naran
You've made you thesis and now you want us to do your research and
critical thinking for you? I'm pretty sure that's not what an A Level
is about. But I'll give you an idea:
In an eassy, you generally argue a point like so:
thesis
anti-thesis
synthetsis
You've made your thesis ("Anime just treats women like crap") and
presumably you have your examples, so now try to poke holes in your
argument (the anti-thesis) and draw a conclusion based on both sides
(the synthesis).
You also ignore the fact that in all visual media in all cultures, the
heroes (male & female) are portrayed as handsome or beautiful and the
bad guys are invariably ugly. Why should anime be different?
--
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Rob Kelk
wrote:
When you say "Blood", do you mean "Blood, The Last Vampire"? I've seen
that movie more than once, and no character in it can possibly be
described by an unbiased observer as either very strong or as a sex
object. (What a biased observer has to say will differ, of course.)
With your request worded the way it is, I wouldn't be at all surprised
if all you got in reply was a list of counter-examples.
Here's a starting point for said list, off the top of my head:
* Bubblegum Crisis: Sylia, Linna, Nene (the majority of the lead
female characters)
* Lost Universe: Millie, Canal (both of the lead female characters)
* Ruin Explorers: Fam (one of the two lead characters)
* El Hazard: Rune Venus, Afura Mann
If by "women" you meant females of any age, add these counter-examples
to the list:
* El Hazard: Nanami Jinnai
* Super GALS!: every female in the show, except for Ran
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis, 1947
Poon Poon
> current state of academia.
mmm.... hawaiian nuts...
Chika
Ian Craig <Tooms...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone, first off, I'm new here but I thought it'd be useful to
> ask you guys for some help with my indipendant study for media studies
> A level (those of you studying media A level in the UK will know what
> I'm on about).
First suggestion; get a spell checker! :)
> Bacically, I've chosen to write a paper on the portrayal of women in
> general in Japanese animtion. I have to focus specifically on one text
> that was released after sept 2000 so i'm using Blood for that but I
> can reference as many diferent media texts as i want.
Question. Why that one in particular? The problem I tend to see more often
than not is that while anime covers a wide variety of styles and subjects,
it is often the case that many will fasten upon certain styles and
subjects of their own choosing. This is further complicated by the
restricted number of titles to be found in circulation outside Japan,
either officially via licensed distribution, or via the fansub market.
Titles in both areas tend to cater to titles that are likely to be popular
in the markets they are supplying (i.e. the old supply and demand bit).
I therefore question whether you can base a whole thesis about the
portrayal of women in anime in general purely based on the findings in a
single title.
> The main points I am planning to make are that, usually, women in anime
> are either presneted as being very strong, sex objects or both with very
> few exceptions.
In other words, rather than working from the source to research an answer,
you plan to fit your research into a preconceived view. Surely this would
negate the value of any thesis.
> I will also talk about how women, even the tough ones, in anime suffer
> greatly from the 'male gaze'.
You can't ignore that this can happen, but again I would question whether
you could make such an assumption based on one title. I can also say that
some female charas are nothing of the sort, but then that all depends on
what titles you have seen.
> Looking at those points, any help you guys could give me with your
> ideas, theories or simply advice would be great.
I can only suggest that you need to look at a lot more anime, preferably
of differing types, before you make statement points of this kind. There
are a few publications that have gone before that might be a good starting
point, but IMO I'd say that you were looking at an awful lot of work.
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?
elsie
"Travers Naran" <tna...@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:X4Eib.9373$x97.34@clgrps13...
Except that anime gives us absolutely beautiful bad guys.
Personally, if the guy were my student, I'd tell him to watch more shoujo.
laurie
Bill w/Aisha Clan-Clan of the C'tarl-C'tarl Empire
<Tooms...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
So... women are strong, sex objects, or both... what kind of anime have
you been watching? In fact, list what you've seen and that will enable
us to direct you at other anime that could be of some help enlightening
you. I can mention Jin-Roh, Patlabor (TV & all 3 movies), and Princess
Mononoke off the top of my head as counterpoints to your idea.
--
Catgirls are cute, I dare you to prove me wrong.
Chika
Bill w/Aisha Clan-Clan of the C'tarl-C'tarl Empire
<billm...@SPAMGUARDcox.net> wrote:
> So... women are strong, sex objects, or both... what kind of anime have
> you been watching?
He's in the UK. Chances are, unless he has seen more than the Manga back
catalog, he has seen little else but that sort of woman. Even if he has
seen more, it all depends on what; shojo anime isn't that big a seller
here.
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Discoveries are made by not following instructions.
Scott Dubin
Ah, but Afura Mann is "strong," is she not?
>
> If by "women" you meant females of any age, add these counter-examples
> to the list:
> * El Hazard: Nanami Jinnai
> * Super GALS!: every female in the show, except for Ran
I'm really not sure I understand the argument. For example, Nanami in
EL Hazard is certainly her own character, not a sex object. On the
other hand, she's a crafty independent woman, does that not make her
"strong?" Or by strong do we mean physically able to hurt things?
I think a more reasonable thesis would take into account that some
anime treat women as sex objects but many do not.
Travers Naran
> "Travers Naran" <tna...@direct.ca> wrote in message
> news:X4Eib.9373$x97.34@clgrps13...
>
>>You also ignore the fact that in all visual media in all cultures, the
>>heroes (male & female) are portrayed as handsome or beautiful and the
>>bad guys are invariably ugly. Why should anime be different?
>
> Except that anime gives us absolutely beautiful bad guys.
The Princess Bride?
> Personally, if the guy were my student, I'd tell him to watch more shoujo.
I'd tell him to watch Patlabor 2.
Michael Lo
I alsoo rather doubt this fellow's claim and looking at his email address,
the only Tooms that I can recall was a rather creepy stalker in X-Files.
Ethan Hammond
>
I did a paper on this for my Women in Film class comparing Azalyn
from Tylor to Queen Christina(1933).
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0024481/
And yes I did show my class clips of Nuku Nuku.
I also showed them clips of UY. You are kind of screwed since
you have to focus on stuff that was released after 9/2000
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Ethan Hammond
>
>women in anime are either presneted as being very strong,
>sex objects or both with very few exceptions.
> I will also talk about how women, even the tough ones, in
> anime suffer greatly from the 'male gaze'. Looking at those points,
> any help you guys could give me with your ideas, theories or simply
> advice would be great.
Although I stayed away from the sterotypes of anime and talked
about strong female roles in anime. Such as Lum, Akiko,
and Azalyn. Clips I used were when Akiko decided to be independent
at the end of OAV 3. The end of UY movie 5 where Lum finds
out that Ataru had carried the hornes the whole time. And also
the scene from Inuba the Dream Maker where it shows the future
where they get married. And a scene with Azalyn from early in
Tylor where it shows her as a strong leader but in private she is
conflicted about her decision to go to war and cries.
Chris Mattern
> Bacically, I've chosen to write a paper on the portrayal of women in
> general in Japanese animtion. I have to focus specifically on one text
> that was released after sept 2000 so i'm using Blood for that but I
> can reference as many diferent media texts as i want. The main points
> I am planning to make are that, usually, women in anime are either
> presneted as being very strong, sex objects or both with very few
> exceptions. I will also talk about how women, even the tough ones, in
"OK, I've got my conclusions, time to start looking at the evidence!"
Isn't this a little, um, backwards?
Chris Mattern
Rob Kelk
>rob...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote in message news:<3f8b0d11...@News.Individual.NET>...
<snip>
>> When you say "Blood", do you mean "Blood, The Last Vampire"? I've seen
>> that movie more than once, and no character in it can possibly be
>> described by an unbiased observer as either very strong or as a sex
>> object. (What a biased observer has to say will differ, of course.)
>>
>> With your request worded the way it is, I wouldn't be at all surprised
>> if all you got in reply was a list of counter-examples.
>>
>> Here's a starting point for said list, off the top of my head:
>> * Bubblegum Crisis: Sylia, Linna, Nene (the majority of the lead
>> female characters)
>> * Lost Universe: Millie, Canal (both of the lead female characters)
>> * Ruin Explorers: Fam (one of the two lead characters)
>> * El Hazard: Rune Venus, Afura Mann
>
>Ah, but Afura Mann is "strong," is she not?
Not in the way that Shayla-Shayla or Ifurita are (which is why I didn't
put either of them on the list).
>> If by "women" you meant females of any age, add these counter-examples
>> to the list:
>> * El Hazard: Nanami Jinnai
>> * Super GALS!: every female in the show, except for Ran
>
>I'm really not sure I understand the argument. For example, Nanami in
>EL Hazard is certainly her own character, not a sex object. On the
>other hand, she's a crafty independent woman, does that not make her
>"strong?" Or by strong do we mean physically able to hurt things?
That's actually a good question. I was thinking of strength being
"ability to take and cause physical damage" when I made the list, but
"willpower, drive and determination" is an equally valid definition of
strength. If that's the definition we're using, then Sylia Stingray has
to come off the list...
>I think a more reasonable thesis would take into account that some
>anime treat women as sex objects but many do not.
That I can't argure with.
Fox Lee
>> Except that anime gives us absolutely beautiful bad guys.
>
>The Princess Bride?
Er... what? I think elsie was more thinking maybe Sephiroth, Zagato,
Sesshoumaru kinda thing...
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"Kinky spleen mallet" - ShitMangler rules! ^__^
Fox Lee
>I think a more reasonable thesis would take into account that some
>anime treat women as sex objects but many do not.
A better one still would consider that many anime treat /males/ as sex
objects as well (Gravitation anybody? Weiss Kruez? :p). Some anime
bank on their sex appeal, some do not. Much like live-action films...
funny that :p
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard." - Anon
Fox Lee
<billm...@SPAMGUARDcox.net> Attacks"...:
>So... women are strong, sex objects, or both... what kind of anime have
>you been watching? In fact, list what you've seen and that will enable
>us to direct you at other anime that could be of some help enlightening
>you. I can mention Jin-Roh, Patlabor (TV & all 3 movies), and Princess
>Mononoke off the top of my head as counterpoints to your idea.
San and Eboshi aren't strong? ^^;
Liam Slider
> Previously on "When scott...@yahoo.com (Scott Dubin) Attacks"...:
>
>
>>I think a more reasonable thesis would take into account that some
>>anime treat women as sex objects but many do not.
>
>
> A better one still would consider that many anime treat /males/ as sex
> objects as well (Gravitation anybody? Weiss Kruez? :p). Some anime
> bank on their sex appeal, some do not. Much like live-action films...
> funny that :p
And quite a few anime have the guys as perverts who the women have to
keep beating off with sticks, sometimes figuratively, sometimes
literally. Good example: any of the Burn Up series.
Liz Broadwell
Hard to tell. He may be just stating his starting hypothesis, having
watched what he thinks is enough anime to come up with one, and getting
ready to do some more focused analysis. (It's a good time for your
adviser or teacher to point out the evidence you may have missed during
your first pass through the material.) It all sounds a little naive,
though. I'd be more worried that "the portrayal of women in general in
Japanese animation" is way, *way* too broad a topic to do justice to in
anything short of a book. (Or several books.) If I were reading his
proposal for a class I was teaching, I'd be sending it back with a
suggestion that he narrow his focus to the portrayal of women in anime
in a definable subcategory (a particular genre, or during a particular
time window, or by a particular artist/creative team), or else spend a
good bit of time explaining why the anime he chooses to analyze should
be taken as representative of the whole field (and at least footnote the
fact that other portrayals of women exist; see upthread). Or refocus to
examine how the portrayal of women in some kinds of anime as strong or
sex objects or both fits in with the storytelling. Do these women show
up in the same kinds of plots, or different ones? What purpose(s) do
their portrayal in this way fulfill? Then there's the whole male gaze
thing, to which my first question would be "*Which* male gaze?" You
can't not take into account the cultural differences between Japan and
the Anglophone West ...
<checks for glazed eyes>
Um. Well, I'm an English major with a strong bent for close analysis
of text, so this is how I think. :-)
Peace,
Liz
--
Elizabeth Broadwell (ebroadwe at dept dot english dot upenn dot edu) at
the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
"October 29, 2007: the Cubs lead 4-3 in the ninth inning, 2 outs in the
seventh game of the World Series. The pitcher fires, the batter swings
... and an asteroid hits the earth and it's destroyed." (Charles P. Pierce)
Ian Craig
objects aer NOT my conclusons but rather points (they could even be
called sterotypes) that I plan to investigate). I also think that you
got the wrong idea, by 'strong' I did not neccasiry mean muscle-bound,
just strong emotionlly or in willpower; Princess Monake (I know I
spelt that wrong) could not be considered physically strong but from a
willpower point of view she is one of the strongest anime heriones
around.
Another thing I would like to say is that I do not just have to focus
on texts realsed after sept 2000, but the one I focus on mainly
(Blood) does have to be (I dont know why).
One lat point; anime is pretty hard to get hold of in the UK anyway
(at a reasonable price anyway) and I live in the middle of no-where :)
Oh yeah, and I'm sorry about the bad spelling, i'm slightly dxlysic
and I types it in a hurry.
Ian
Chika
> objects aer NOT my conclusons but rather points (they could even be
> called sterotypes) that I plan to investigate). I also think that you
> got the wrong idea, by 'strong' I did not neccasiry mean muscle-bound,
> just strong emotionlly or in willpower; Princess Monake (I know I
> spelt that wrong) could not be considered physically strong but from a
> willpower point of view she is one of the strongest anime heriones
> around.
Perhaps this was one of the problems with your original posting that
wasn't immediately obvious. If you are attempting to prove or disprove
these points, however, it may be worth reading through some of the books
that have been written on the subject already, especially as UK anime is
hard to find and can be time consuming to work through. It may also be
worth contacting some of the UK based fan groups. One place you could try
is the uk.media.animation.anime group.
> Another thing I would like to say is that I do not just have to focus
> on texts realsed after sept 2000, but the one I focus on mainly
> (Blood) does have to be (I dont know why).
As has already been mentioned, Blood isn't a particularly good example of
anime in general, though anime in general is difficult to generalise about.
> One lat point; anime is pretty hard to get hold of in the UK anyway
> (at a reasonable price anyway) and I live in the middle of no-where :)
Even more reason to contact the UK anime group, though it depends on where
you are as to whether you have a group local to you. I know that some
colleges have small groups of their own.
> Oh yeah, and I'm sorry about the bad spelling, i'm slightly dxlysic
> and I types it in a hurry.
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Daddy, what does FORMATTING DRIVE C: mean?
Fish Eye no Miko
news:a9100e04.03101...@posting.google.com...
> One lat point; anime is pretty hard to get hold of in the UK
> anyway (at a reasonable price anyway) and I live in the
> middle of no-where :)
Then maybe you shouldn't be doing your thesis on it.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
Right now you are reading my .sig quote.
Liz Broadwell
>"Ian Craig" <Tooms...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:a9100e04.03101...@posting.google.com...
>
>> One lat point; anime is pretty hard to get hold of in the UK
>> anyway (at a reasonable price anyway) and I live in the
>> middle of no-where :)
>
>Then maybe you shouldn't be doing your thesis on it.
Or maybe he should be doing his thesis on the nature of the UK anime
market. When life hands you lemons ...
Heavyarms
"Ian Craig" <Tooms...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a9100e04.03101...@posting.google.com...
> ask you guys for some help with my indipendant study for media studies
> A level (those of you studying media A level in the UK will know what
> I'm on about).
> general in Japanese animtion. I have to focus specifically on one text
> that was released after sept 2000 so i'm using Blood for that but I
> can reference as many diferent media texts as i want. The main points
> I am planning to make are that, usually, women in anime are either
> presneted as being very strong, sex objects or both with very few
Yeah, but the two aren't really exclusive. Strong women are interesting,
weak ones usually aren't. Sexy women (or cartoons) are interesting, ugly
ones usually aren't. Its also important to remember that most women (anime
characters) MUST fit into one of these two categories anyway. Weak, ugly
characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their gender.
> exceptions. I will also talk about how women, even the tough ones, in
> anime suffer greatly from the 'male gaze'. Looking at those points,
I guess by male gaze, you mean "attractive." Well, sure. Again, if the
characters aren't easy to look at, nobody's gonna watch the show. Male
characters are the same. I can't think of a single anime that has a male
main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
> any help you guys could give me with your ideas, theories or simply
> advice would be great.
> Cheers!
> Ian
Heavyarms
"Michael Lo" <Iwillnev...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:884b7c04.03101...@posting.google.com...
Eugene Tooms
Episode 1X02 Squeeze
Episode 1X20 Tooms
He was a mutant (?) that was able to squeeze himself in and out of tight
places. He used this ability to sneak into homes and offices to kill his
victims and feed on their livers. He awoke every 33 years to eat five
livers, then he'd go into some sort of "cocoon" and hibernate for another 33
years.
Fish Eye no Miko
news:voohgoa...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Ian Craig" <Tooms...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > exceptions. I will also talk about how women, even the tough
> > ones, in anime suffer greatly from the 'male gaze'.
>
> I guess by male gaze, you mean "attractive."
No.
It means they're seen, literally and figuratively, very much from a male
perspective.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"When Catherine thinks you're too gay, you're too gay."
-Rob Fontenot, aka The Midnight Rambler, RATMM.
Galen Musbach
<jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
(snip)
>I guess by male gaze, you mean "attractive." Well, sure. Again, if the
>characters aren't easy to look at, nobody's gonna watch the show. Male
>characters are the same. I can't think of a single anime that has a male
>main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
"Blackjack"
-Galen
Stuart Dawson
<jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
>Weak, ugly
>characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their gender.
Shinji? Nowt to look at and as weak as they come but he's
interesting.
>I can't think of a single anime that has a male
>main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
Blackjack?
--
Stuart Dawson - 353 art books now reviewed
http://www.jingoro.demon.co.uk/frame.htm
Travers Naran
> Previously on "When Travers Naran <tna...@direct.ca> Attacks"...:
>
> >> Except that anime gives us absolutely beautiful bad guys.
> >
> >The Princess Bride?
>
> Er... what?
The movie "The Princess Bride". The villain was a pretty boy. So was
the hero, but that's neither here nor there. I just wanted to point
out that it wasn't limited to anime.
> I think elsie was more thinking maybe Sephiroth, Zagato,
> Sesshoumaru kinda thing...
Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad guy.
Naraku, on the other hand, would fit with your theory as well.
"You know Naruku's the bad guy because he's bishounen!"
-- Overheard at a convention
K. A. Pezzano
<stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:44:22 -0500, "Heavyarms"
><jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
>
>>Weak, ugly
>>characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their gender.
>
>Shinji? Nowt to look at and as weak as they come but he's
>interesting.
>
He's not THAT bad looking!
Blade
news:5b5263db.03101...@posting.google.com:
> message news:<um0oov45tk7umpv3n...@4ax.com>...
>> Previously on "When Travers Naran <tna...@direct.ca> Attacks"...:
>> Sesshoumaru kinda thing...
>
> Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad guy.
> Naraku, on the other hand, would fit with your theory as well.
That's like saying Vegeta isn't a bad guy because eventually he joins the
good guys. Sesshoumaru is a remoreseless mass murderer and an utter
villain for his first several appearences.
Blade
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> > Previously on "When Travers Naran <tna...@direct.ca> Attacks"...:
> >
> > >> Except that anime gives us absolutely beautiful bad guys.
> > >
> > >The Princess Bride?
> >
> > Er... what?
>
> The movie "The Princess Bride". The villain was a pretty boy.
Not really...
He might have THOUGHT he was (though I really don't recall him being
particularly vain about his looks), but he was significantly less
attractive (to me, anyway) than the hero.
> > I think elsie was more thinking maybe Sephiroth, Zagato,
> > Sesshoumaru kinda thing...
>
> Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad
> guy.
How would you describe him? An antagonist?
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"C.S.I.: Ruining appetites for 3 years and counting."
-Ben Wick.
Fish Eye no Miko
news:9n5povk03edm192ib...@4ax.com...
> Stuart Dawson <stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > "Heavyarms" <jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Weak, ugly
> >>characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their
> >>gender.
> >
> >Shinji? Nowt to look at and as weak as they come but he's
> >interesting.
> >
> He's not THAT bad looking!
Agreed. Shinji's definitely easy on the eyes, regardless of what you think
of his personality.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
tito
<fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
>Previously on "When scott...@yahoo.com (Scott Dubin) Attacks"...:
>
>>I think a more reasonable thesis would take into account that some
>>anime treat women as sex objects but many do not.
>
>A better one still would consider that many anime treat /males/ as sex
>objects as well (Gravitation anybody? Weiss Kruez? :p). Some anime
>bank on their sex appeal, some do not. Much like live-action films...
>funny that :p
And to put it more generally, sex appeal of guys is RIFE in shoujo as
well. Shounen stuff just seems more overt with its literal sexual
content at times. Becuase no one wants to admit the 14-15 year old
girls reading shoujo could ever be the horndogs equivalent boys are,
no matter how much yaoi-flavored manga they have...
tito
>I guess by male gaze, you mean "attractive." Well, sure. Again, if the
>characters aren't easy to look at, nobody's gonna watch the show. Male
>characters are the same. I can't think of a single anime that has a male
>main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
IIRC, one rule of manga was just because of the simiplicity needed for
quick art, ugly is harder to do than ''nice looking'' (symetrical,
smooth skin, etc.) I think it's better to say in some series male
characters are not drawn with the same degree of unique quirks (hair,
outfits, etc.) and they look plainer.
Even Love Comedies and 'harem' shows, the bastion of shounen anime,
usually have this rule. The epitomous Tenchi Masaki is actually
commented to be handsome, and a few others (Kazuya Saotome, or Mike
from Onegai) are almost bishounen.
Travers Naran
> news:5b5263db.03101...@posting.google.com...
>
>>guy.
>
> How would you describe him? An antagonist?
In a way. I'd describe him more as a brother who has "sibling issues".
As well, Sesshoumaru is mellowing out. Or at least in ep 100 and later.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Travers Naran | Visit the SFTV Science Blunders
F/T Programmer,P/T Meddler In Time&Space | Hall of Infamy!
New Westminster, British Columbia, |
Canada, Earth, Milky Way, etc. | <www.geocities.com/naran500/>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavyarms
"Stuart Dawson" <stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qopoovkv3h95gi0m7...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:44:22 -0500, "Heavyarms"
> <jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
>
> >Weak, ugly
> >characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their gender.
>
> Shinji? Nowt to look at and as weak as they come but he's
> interesting.
>
I don't really think Shinji is ugly. Sure, he's a puss, but ugly? At least
not Jeanine Garofolo ugly ;-)
> >I can't think of a single anime that has a male
> >main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
>
> Blackjack?
>
Who?
Heavyarms
"Fish Eye no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote in message
> "Travers Naran" <tna...@direct.ca> wrote in message
> news:5b5263db.03101...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> > > Previously on "When Travers Naran <tna...@direct.ca> Attacks"...:
> > >
> > > >> Except that anime gives us absolutely beautiful bad guys.
> > > >
> > > >The Princess Bride?
> > >
> > > Er... what?
> >
> > The movie "The Princess Bride". The villain was a pretty boy.
>
> Not really...
> He might have THOUGHT he was (though I really don't recall him being
> particularly vain about his looks), but he was significantly less
> attractive (to me, anyway) than the hero.
>
For the record, the villain was Prince Humperdink played by Chris Sarandon
(for those interested.)
Michael Borgwardt
>>>I can't think of a single anime that has a male
>>>main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
>>
>>Blackjack?
>>
>
>
> Who?
*marks down a D for Heavyarms in manga history*
Educate yourself here: http://www.mit.edu/people/rei/MANGA/BJ.html
Fox Lee
Attacks"...:
>> The movie "The Princess Bride". The villain was a pretty boy.
>
>Not really...
>He might have THOUGHT he was (though I really don't recall him being
>particularly vain about his looks), but he was significantly less
>attractive (to me, anyway) than the hero.
Likewise. I never thought of him as pretty for a moment ^^;
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"There's an option I'd like to see my PC bring up - 'You are still using dial-up. Crack and by ADSL? Y/N'" - Ojin
Fox Lee
>> Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad guy.
>> Naraku, on the other hand, would fit with your theory as well.
>
>That's like saying Vegeta isn't a bad guy because eventually he joins the
>good guys. Sesshoumaru is a remoreseless mass murderer and an utter
>villain for his first several appearences.
Eyah, that's what I was thinking of. He certainly fills a villainous
at the beginning of the series, and for as much of it as I've seen.
Fox Lee
>And to put it more generally, sex appeal of guys is RIFE in shoujo as
>well. Shounen stuff just seems more overt with its literal sexual
>content at times. Becuase no one wants to admit the 14-15 year old
>girls reading shoujo could ever be the horndogs equivalent boys are,
>no matter how much yaoi-flavored manga they have...
Precisely. It's just that the shoujo stuff is cute and fluffy, so
people automatically treat it like it's more innocent than shounen.
But honestly, like putting sparkly bubbles in the background and
making the genitalia invisible makes it any less boysmutty? :p
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"There's an option I'd like to see my PC bring up - 'You are still using dial-up. Crack and by ADSL? Y/N'" - Ojin
Fox Lee
Attacks"...:
>>Weak, ugly
>>characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their gender.
>
>Shinji? Nowt to look at and as weak as they come but he's
>interesting.
You take that back! Shinji is adorable! ;___;
(Okay, sure, he's not everybody's cup of tea, but he's NOT ugly. And
even if he was, it wouldn't be because he was weak!)
Fox Lee
Attacks"...:
>I guess by male gaze, you mean "attractive." Well, sure. Again, if the
>characters aren't easy to look at, nobody's gonna watch the show. Male
>characters are the same. I can't think of a single anime that has a male
>main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
Define "deliberately"? I would say that pretty much the entire male
cast of Dragonball qualifies here ^^; I think it's more due to
Toriyama's art style than anything, if that's not deliberate, what is?
^^;
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"Seriously, though, Talen - being able to take care of yourself is no reason to not take care of yourself, if you can see what I'm saying." - Bob MacFie, wise man
Blade
> Previously on "When "Heavyarms" <jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com>
> Attacks"...:
>
>>I guess by male gaze, you mean "attractive." Well, sure. Again, if
>>the characters aren't easy to look at, nobody's gonna watch the
>>show. Male characters are the same. I can't think of a single
>>anime that has a male main character that is deliberately portrayed
>>as "ugly."
>
> Define "deliberately"? I would say that pretty much the entire male
> cast of Dragonball qualifies here ^^; I think it's more due to
> Toriyama's art style than anything, if that's not deliberate, what
> is? ^^;
Actually, most girls I know think Goku is at least cute, with his "wide-
eyed wonder" quality (and Vegeta and, to a lesser extent, Piccolo have
hordes of fangirls who think they are dead sexxxay). Disliking the art
style to the point of thinking everyone's ugly is more of a subjective
reader thing than a deliberate artist thing.
Blade
Gerardo Campos
news:Xns941619C23...@66.185.95.104:
What about Dr. Slump, the Father/Inventor of Arale.
Or Amamori Hajime, the kid on Queen Millenia,
--
Saludos
Gerardo Campos
Travers Naran
> Previously on "When Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> Attacks"...:
>
>
>>>Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad guy.
>>>Naraku, on the other hand, would fit with your theory as well.
>>
>>That's like saying Vegeta isn't a bad guy because eventually he joins the
>>good guys. Sesshoumaru is a remoreseless mass murderer and an utter
>>villain for his first several appearences.
>
>
> Eyah, that's what I was thinking of. He certainly fills a villainous
> at the beginning of the series, and for as much of it as I've seen.
Someone worse comes along. As well, Rin helps mellow him out.
Uiler
> Fox Lee wrote:
>
>> Previously on "When Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> Attacks"...:
>>
>>
>>>>Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad guy.
>>>>Naraku, on the other hand, would fit with your theory as well.
>>>
>>>That's like saying Vegeta isn't a bad guy because eventually he joins the
>>>good guys. Sesshoumaru is a remoreseless mass murderer and an utter
>>>villain for his first several appearences.
>>
>>
>> Eyah, that's what I was thinking of. He certainly fills a villainous
>> at the beginning of the series, and for as much of it as I've seen.
>
> Someone worse comes along. As well, Rin helps mellow him out.
>
Naraku isn't exactly ugly either.
tito
<stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:44:22 -0500, "Heavyarms"
><jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
>
>>Weak, ugly
>>characters wouldn't be very interesting, regardless of their gender.
>
>Shinji? Nowt to look at and as weak as they come but he's
>interesting.
Shinji isn't ugly. He's a bit scrawny but considering how much he
looks like his mother, he might be fairly handsome if he tidyied
himself up.
And looking somewhat effeminate has always been the definition of
bishounen anyway.
>
>>I can't think of a single anime that has a male
>>main character that is deliberately portrayed as "ugly."
>
>Blackjack?
Urusei Yatsuara, apparenrtly. Althought he isn't drawn much different
than the other characters, some character have specifically called
Ataru 'and ugly man.'
tito
And to be cynical, Sess seems one of those characters given enormous
leeway because he 'kicks ass' (mainylg guys) and is also unusally
pretty (mainly girls).
Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that just
plain boggle me.
Fish Eye no Miko
> Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that just
> plain boggle me.
Yeah. Cuz guys never fall in love with female characters based on their
looks even though those ladies might be somewhat psychotic.
Heavyarms
"Michael Borgwardt" <bra...@brazils-animeland.de> wrote in message
news:bmjs06$nq7ea$1...@ID-161931.news.uni-berlin.de...
Heavyarms doesn't read manga. I don't like the way the stories always
happen backwards....
Blade
> Fox Lee wrote:
>
>> Previously on "When Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> Attacks"...:
>>
>>
>>>>Sesshoumaru is not a bad guy. He's bad ass, but not a bad guy.
>>>>Naraku, on the other hand, would fit with your theory as well.
>>>
>>>That's like saying Vegeta isn't a bad guy because eventually he
>>>joins the good guys. Sesshoumaru is a remoreseless mass murderer
>>>and an utter villain for his first several appearences.
>>
>>
>> Eyah, that's what I was thinking of. He certainly fills a
>> villainous at the beginning of the series, and for as much of it as
>> I've seen.
>
> Someone worse comes along. As well, Rin helps mellow him out.
Yes, yes, but that doesn't make him any less of a villain through the
first ten volumes of the series. The guy is a mass-murdering remorseless
asshole. Naraku isn't even much more evil than him then; just more
subtle.
Blade
Blade
news:yoAjb.83784$gv5.66530@fed1read05:
> tito wrote:
>
>> Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that
>> just plain boggle me.
>
> Yeah. Cuz guys never fall in love with female characters based on
> their looks even though those ladies might be somewhat psychotic.
<huggles Kalia protectively> Are you...SUGGESTING something? ;p
Blade
(I like Sesshy too. But I'm not going to pretend he's not a complete
jerk, especially through the first ten volumes. Heck, I'm not even
assuming he's less than a complete jerk afterwards.)
John C. Watson
no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
> tito wrote:
>
>> Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that just
>> plain boggle me.
>
> Yeah. Cuz guys never fall in love with female characters based on their
> looks even though those ladies might be somewhat psychotic.
Haman Khan from Gundam seems to have a following in Japan.
--
Ciao,
John
John C. Watson
World Otakunization Project, Amherst Division
Please note the change of my E-mail address.
Travers Naran
> Travers Naran wrote:
>
> > Someone worse comes along. As well, Rin helps mellow him out.
> >
>
> Naraku isn't exactly ugly either.
That was my point a few messages up from this one. ;-)
Travers Naran
> tito wrote:
>
> > Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that just
> > plain boggle me.
>
> Yeah. Cuz guys never fall in love with female characters based on their
> looks even though those ladies might be somewhat psychotic.
How did the Sean Young come into this discussion? :-)
Jorge Pratt
"Travers Naran" <tna...@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:5b5263db.03101...@posting.google.com...
And I guess you haven't seen Naraku's "bad hair days" every month...
The Zephyr
(Unlike the human Inuyasha, Naraku's "other" form isn't exactly
inconspicuous.)
Travers Naran
> And I guess you haven't seen Naraku's "bad hair days" every month...
I've seen it, and he still looks bishounen. It's just there's this
other... stuff around him.
Heavyarms
"John C. Watson" <jwat...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BBB47EE7.223AA%jwat...@comcast.net...
> On 10/16/2003 13:18, in article yoAjb.83784$gv5.66530@fed1read05, "Fish
Eye
> no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>
> > tito wrote:
> >
> >> Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that just
> >> plain boggle me.
> >
> > Yeah. Cuz guys never fall in love with female characters based on their
> > looks even though those ladies might be somewhat psychotic.
>
> Haman Khan from Gundam seems to have a following in Japan.
>
For that matter, Rei Ayanami seems to have a STMF following here in the US.
Chika
<jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
> For that matter, Rei Ayanami seems to have a STMF following here in the
> US.
True, but the person in question is currently being hunted down by the
medical services. There's a nice padded cell waiting, and one of those
nice suits with the extra long sleeves that tie behind the back... ^_^
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... A wise man once said.... I don't know...
Captain Nerd
> "John C. Watson" <jwat...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:BBB47EE7.223AA%jwat...@comcast.net...
> > On 10/16/2003 13:18, in article yoAjb.83784$gv5.66530@fed1read05, "Fish
> Eye
> > no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
> >
> > > tito wrote:
> > >
> > >> Some really psychotic bishounen have some fangirl followings that just
> > >> plain boggle me.
> > >
> > > Yeah. Cuz guys never fall in love with female characters based on their
> > > looks even though those ladies might be somewhat psychotic.
> >
> > Haman Khan from Gundam seems to have a following in Japan.
> >
>
> For that matter, Rei Ayanami seems to have a STMF following here in the US.
"STMF?"
WATSMTAFLA?
IGSC!
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Email address coming back, soon
John C. Watson
<miy...@spam.no.way> wrote:
> In article <vp09o72...@corp.supernews.com>, Heavyarms
> <jent...@pee-puhl-pee-cee.com> wrote:
>> For that matter, Rei Ayanami seems to have a STMF following here in the
>> US.
>
> True, but the person in question is currently being hunted down by the
> medical services. There's a nice padded cell waiting, and one of those
> nice suits with the extra long sleeves that tie behind the back... ^_^
There's two of them--see also Richard Qunt [sic: "kwunt"]. Of course, I
admit I encouraged him...
Bill w/Aisha Clan-Clan of the C'tarl-C'tarl Empire
<fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> Previously on "When Bill w/Aisha Clan-Clan of the C'tarl-C'tarl Empire
> <billm...@SPAMGUARDcox.net> Attacks"...:
>
> >So... women are strong, sex objects, or both... what kind of anime have
> >you been watching? In fact, list what you've seen and that will enable
> >us to direct you at other anime that could be of some help enlightening
> >you. I can mention Jin-Roh, Patlabor (TV & all 3 movies), and Princess
> >Mononoke off the top of my head as counterpoints to your idea.
>
> San and Eboshi aren't strong? ^^;
>
Two exceptions in a cast of how many? I was referring to the complete
list of females in each of them.
--
Catgirls are cute, I dare you to prove me wrong.
Fox Lee
<billm...@SPAMGUARDcox.net> Attacks"...:
>> San and Eboshi aren't strong? ^^;
>
>Two exceptions in a cast of how many? I was referring to the complete
>list of females in each of them.
Ur... they /are/ the entire female cast ^^; Unless you wanna count the
one secondary female character from the village - one woman - or the
nameless extras. Oh, and there's Moro, I guess...
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
It could be worse. You could be playing FATAL.
Fox Lee
>Actually, most girls I know think Goku is at least cute, with his "wide-
>eyed wonder" quality (and Vegeta and, to a lesser extent, Piccolo have
>hordes of fangirls who think they are dead sexxxay). Disliking the art
>style to the point of thinking everyone's ugly is more of a subjective
>reader thing than a deliberate artist thing.
... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
It could be worse. You could be playing FATAL.
Chika
Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... All you folks do not exist. My sysop types all this stuff in.
Blade
> Previously on "When Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> Attacks"...:
>
>>Actually, most girls I know think Goku is at least cute, with his
>>"wide- eyed wonder" quality (and Vegeta and, to a lesser extent,
>>Piccolo have hordes of fangirls who think they are dead sexxxay).
>>Disliking the art style to the point of thinking everyone's ugly is
>>more of a subjective reader thing than a deliberate artist thing.
>
> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
From a well-known female anime fan, I got the exact quote "I love his
hard, chiseled little body..." in the midst of several other descriptions
praising his hair, his scowl, and other things. He also gets featured in
tons of female-drawn fanart and fanfiction.
Face it, Fox...lots of gals love Veggie. ;p
Blade
Marie Kelly
Chika wrote:
> In article <euoapv8rdao31aqro...@4ax.com>,
> Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
>
>>... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
>
>
> There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
Uh...she was horny and he was available?
Actually, I am one of those women who believes that Vegeta is sexy. He's
short and sexy and has those eyes and smirk and arms and butt and
everything!
Chika
Marie Kelly <sed...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Chika wrote:
> > In article <euoapv8rdao31aqro...@4ax.com>,
> > Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> >
> >>... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
> >
> > There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
> Uh...she was horny and he was available?
Whatever works! I used to date a girl that was attracted to Clive James'
butt. Takes all sorts!
> Actually, I am one of those women who believes that Vegeta is sexy. He's
> short and sexy and has those eyes and smirk and arms and butt and
> everything!
EVERYTHING?!? (Hmmm... Dragonball H....)
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Law of Insurance and Taxes - Whatever goes up, stays up.
Bill w/Aisha Clan-Clan of the C'tarl-C'tarl Empire
<fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> Previously on "When Bill w/Aisha Clan-Clan of the C'tarl-C'tarl Empire
> <billm...@SPAMGUARDcox.net> Attacks"...:
>
> >> San and Eboshi aren't strong? ^^;
> >
> >Two exceptions in a cast of how many? I was referring to the complete
> >list of females in each of them.
>
> Ur... they /are/ the entire female cast ^^; Unless you wanna count the
> one secondary female character from the village - one woman - or the
> nameless extras. Oh, and there's Moro, I guess...
Yeah... those extras are female. I didn't say the female lead, I said
"complete list of females in each of them (Mononoke et. al.). Sheesh,
I never thought I'd catch flak from a female for noticing that there
were more than just two human women in Princess Mononoke...
Michael Lo
And in some doujin, so does Goku. Especially the part about Veggie's butt
Fox Lee
<billm...@SPAMGUARDcox.net> Attacks"...:
>> Ur... they /are/ the entire female cast ^^; Unless you wanna count the
>> one secondary female character from the village - one woman - or the
>> nameless extras. Oh, and there's Moro, I guess...
>
>Yeah... those extras are female. I didn't say the female lead, I said
>"complete list of females in each of them (Mononoke et. al.). Sheesh,
>I never thought I'd catch flak from a female for noticing that there
>were more than just two human women in Princess Mononoke...
Geez... I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong or anything 9_9; I
just thought it was odd that you were considering all of the extras to
be "cast members". I wouldn't have thought most people would think of
them as such, is all. *shrug*
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"It's all about love. There just needs to be more love." - Yule Kilcher
Fox Lee
>From a well-known female anime fan, I got the exact quote "I love his
>hard, chiseled little body..." in the midst of several other descriptions
>praising his hair, his scowl, and other things. He also gets featured in
>tons of female-drawn fanart and fanfiction.
>
>Face it, Fox...lots of gals love Veggie. ;p
*shrugs* If you say so. I don't think that's much of an argument for
him actually being attractive, though, or whether or not he (or
indeed, any oher male DB cast member) is intended to be. Even if some
women find them attractive, I don't think they were intended to have
great visual appeal. Tho', I expect that Trunks and 17 and such are
actually intended to be attractive, so that rules out the "pretty much
every guy" thought.
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"It's all about love. There just needs to be more love." - Yule Kilcher
Fox Lee
>> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
>
>There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
I always figured she had a complex about obnoxious assholes or
something :p
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"It's all about love. There just needs to be more love." - Yule Kilcher
Chika
Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote:
> Previously on "When Chika <miy...@spam.no.way> Attacks"...:
Call
1-800-I-WITNESSED-WHEN-CHIKA-ATTACKED-SO-NOW-I-AM-CALLING-THIS-NUMBER-TO
-REPORT-WHAT-I-SAW.
> >> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
> >
> >There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
> I always figured she had a complex about obnoxious assholes or
> something :p
You could well have a point there! I've seen it happen in real life too...
^_^;
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... The wise don't merely stalk their prey, they make the kill.
Blade
> Previously on "When Chika <miy...@spam.no.way> Attacks"...:
>
>>> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
>>
>>There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
>
> I always figured she had a complex about obnoxious assholes or
> something :p
Actually, that's not it. Aside from the fact her previous boyfriend was
the rather whipped Yamcha, Bulma takes a backseat to absolutely nobody.
They're equals, in their own twisted little way.
Interesting fact? Of the two of them, Vegeta spends more screen time
being loving and sappy over his family. So belee THAT, playa. ;p
Personally, I wish we'd gotten to see more of their relationship on-
screen. It'd be interesting, to say the least. But of course, the fans
wanted more Goku, and more fighting. ;p
Blade
*******
Also Known As: Chris McNeil, The Annoying Jerk, The Enemy of Democracy,
"That Guy That Can't Write A Lunch Menu Without Pantyhose Tarou Being In
It Somewhere"
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com
- Bigger. Better. Badder. Back. Oh yeah.
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/kaliashrine.htm
- Worship the Cute Evil that is Kalia! Or else!
"I realise I'm generalising here, but as is so often the case when I
generalise, I don't care." - Dave Barry
Chika
Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I wish we'd gotten to see more of their relationship on-
> screen. It'd be interesting, to say the least. But of course, the fans
> wanted more Goku, and more fighting. ;p
Can't argue with that, but then I'm not a great fan of fight scenes... ;)
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Salvation is only a Beer Bottle away...
Blade
news:4c462df1...@no.spam.here:
> In article <Xns941D909B63...@66.185.95.104>,
> Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Personally, I wish we'd gotten to see more of their relationship
>> on- screen. It'd be interesting, to say the least. But of course,
>> the fans wanted more Goku, and more fighting. ;p
>
> Can't argue with that, but then I'm not a great fan of fight
> scenes... ;)
I am, and I like Dragonball's, but I like the non-fighting stuff just as
much, the more so because it sometimes seems so far between chunks of it.
Blade
Fish Eye no Miko
> Previously on "When Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> Attacks"...:
>
>> From a well-known female anime fan, I got the exact quote "I
>> love his hard, chiseled little body..." in the midst of several other
>> descriptions praising his hair, his scowl, and other things. He also
>> gets featured in tons of female-drawn fanart and fanfiction.
>> Face it, Fox...lots of gals love Veggie. ;p
>
> *shrugs* If you say so. I don't think that's much of an argument for
> him actually being attractive, though, or whether or not he (or
> indeed, any oher male DB cast member) is intended to be.
I'm inclined to agree.
> Even if some women find them attractive, I don't think they were
> intended to have great visual appeal. Tho', I expect that Trunks and
> 17 and such are actually intended to be attractive,
As is Zarbon (rrrrowr...)
> so that rules out the "pretty much every guy" thought.
^_^
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
ALL HAIL BRAK!
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fox Lee fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net
> wrote:
>
>> I always figured she had a complex about obnoxious assholes
>> or something :p
>
> Actually, that's not it. Aside from the fact her previous
> boyfriend was the rather whipped Yamcha, Bulma takes a
> backseat to absolutely nobody. They're equals, in their own
> twisted little way.
Indeed. They both need strong willed, take-no-shit from anyone
partners--and they found them.
> Interesting fact? Of the two of them, Vegeta spends more
> screen time being loving and sappy over his family.
Heh. Well, arguably that's cuz he gets more screen time, period... But,
yeah. ^_^
> So belee THAT, playa. ;p
Well, I think Vegeta talks a good game, but deep, deep, deep, deep.... er
down in there somewhere, he's can be very caring.
> Personally, I wish we'd gotten to see more of their relationship
> on-screen. It'd be interesting, to say the least.
Word.
> But of course, the fans wanted more Goku, and more fighting. ;p
Yeah. We don't even get to see how they get together, for cryin' out loud!
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"I have to go, mother. Put your kidnapper back on the line."
-Gary Andrews, _Gary the Rat_.
Marie Kelly
> Yeah. We don't even get to see how they get together, for cryin' out loud!
Well, that just means we can use our imaginations!
Yeah, I know I know, it's not the real thing. Still, there's no evidence
against my "Bulma seduced Vegeta (and not the other way around)" theory.
In fact, knowing their personalities, it makes perfect sense.
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>
>> Yeah. We don't even get to see how they get together, for cryin'
>> out loud!
>
> Well, that just means we can use our imaginations!
As the huge amount of "how they got together" fanfic shows. ^_^
> Yeah, I know I know, it's not the real thing. Still, there's no evidence
> against my "Bulma seduced Vegeta (and not the other way around)"
> theory. In fact, knowing their personalities, it makes perfect sense.
I agree--I've always felt that Bulma made the first move. There's even
some evidence for it:
1) Bulma invited Vejita to stay with her, arguably making "the first
move".
2) Bulma, from the beginning of the manga, has been portrayed as... er..
boy (man?) crazy. Vejita, otoh, has never been portrayed as having any
interest in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship with anyone. So,
as you say, based on this, it makes sense Bulma would be the pursuing
party.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. And the
crabcakes aren't bad, either."
-The Scotsman, _The Scotsman Saves Samurai Jack_.
Fox Lee
>Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote in
>news:kohfpvk1l2f16lhn4...@4ax.com:
>
>> Previously on "When Chika <miy...@spam.no.way> Attacks"...:
>>
>>>> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
>>>
>>>There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
>>
>> I always figured she had a complex about obnoxious assholes or
>> something :p
>
>Actually, that's not it. Aside from the fact her previous boyfriend was
>the rather whipped Yamcha, Bulma takes a backseat to absolutely nobody.
>They're equals, in their own twisted little way.
Um... this makes him not an asshole, how? ^^; I'm not saying he
necessarily mistreats her or anything - I haven't seen enough of the
series to guess at that. I was just observing that he tends to be a
jerk.
>Interesting fact? Of the two of them, Vegeta spends more screen time
>being loving and sappy over his family. So belee THAT, playa. ;p
I'm not even sure what you just /said/, dude ^^;;
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"A God who makes arbitrary rulings, without reason. A religion for fools, certainly." - Saint Baldwin, and is it any wonder Talen made him a God?
Fox Lee
Not that I'm the best person to judge, but that seems more likely to
me than the other way around. Not that Vegeta doesn't appear to have a
dominant type of personality, but he doesn't seem like somebody who
would ever think of starting a romantic relationship. I'd guess it
came as a bit of shock toi him at first.
...They must have hilariously fun lover's tiffs :p
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"A God who makes arbitrary rulings, without reason. A religion for fools, certainly." - Saint Baldwin, and is it any wonder Talen made him a God?
Blade
> Previously on "When Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> Attacks"...:
>
>>Fox Lee <fox...@synthetic-surrealism.spamfreakinsucks.net> wrote in
>>news:kohfpvk1l2f16lhn4...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Previously on "When Chika <miy...@spam.no.way> Attacks"...:
>>>
>>>>> ... VISUALLY attractive? Oo;;;; Vegeta? O_____O;;;;
>>>>
>>>>There must have been something that attracted Bulma... :)
>>>
>>> I always figured she had a complex about obnoxious assholes or
>>> something :p
>>
>>Actually, that's not it. Aside from the fact her previous boyfriend
>>was the rather whipped Yamcha, Bulma takes a backseat to absolutely
>>nobody. They're equals, in their own twisted little way.
>
> Um... this makes him not an asshole, how? ^^; I'm not saying he
> necessarily mistreats her or anything - I haven't seen enough of the
> series to guess at that. I was just observing that he tends to be a
> jerk.
Ah. Well, the way you phrased it, it sounded like you were implying
Bulma was the sort of woman who looks for jerks as her paramours; I was
pointing out that that was not really the case.
But then, I like Bulma. Alternately nice and bitchy, thoughtful and
selfish, patient and mercurial, brilliant and short-sighted, she's one of
the most understatedly complex female characters in anime. To be fair,
over the course of 42 volumes she has years upon years to develop, but
still...
>>Interesting fact? Of the two of them, Vegeta spends more screen
>>time being loving and sappy over his family. So belee THAT, playa.
>>;p
> I'm not even sure what you just /said/, dude ^^;;
The last line? It's just a reference, don't worry about it. ;p
Fox Lee
>> Um... this makes him not an asshole, how? ^^; I'm not saying he
>> necessarily mistreats her or anything - I haven't seen enough of the
>> series to guess at that. I was just observing that he tends to be a
>> jerk.
>
>Ah. Well, the way you phrased it, it sounded like you were implying
>Bulma was the sort of woman who looks for jerks as her paramours; I was
>pointing out that that was not really the case.
Well, that's what I was theorising, yes. But Yamcha and Bulma not
taking crap don't add up to making that statement untrue, do they? As
has been mentioned, we don't see them get together - and, from what I
can gather, there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason that they
appealed to ech other - they just are. Which is fine, I am a firm
believer that love needs no reasons - but Buolma having a thing for
obnoxious guys seems as good an excuse as any (and it doesn't mean
that Bulma's whipped or anything - just that she likes a man she can
bicker with ;p).
-----------------------------------------------
Fox Lee: The girl your mother warned you about
http://hypercrescendo.net/foxlee/
http://www.blurty.com/users/leechimera/
"Naked wanker spanker" - ShitMangler rules! ^__^
Ethan Hammond
ROTFLMAO
--
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