Is ANIME that popular ? I doubt it !
ryb
I do not know if the lurkers in this newsgroup care about animes,but
as far as animes are concerned,and manga to a degree,I do think that
all is not well in animedreamland.
Just look at your own figures,the traffic that the different
newsgroups devoted to anime generate..
One of the most active one is the infamous "alt.fan.sailor-moon"
like it or not..It also has the most otaku wars,fanfics stories and
web sites..If it weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck
by now,at least in North America.As SMoon is waning down which anime
can take up the flame ?I only see Dragon Ball,Dragon Ball Z,etc doing
the trick..and in doing so they can attract more people to the
anime/manga scene..
Hence the group "alt.manga" is but moribund,the "rec.arts.manga" is
half dead,the French anime group-traffic pitiful as NET connections in
Europe very difficult and expensive to get unless you are at the
University level(though it might change soon)..The only anime
newsgroup that is active is the one "rec.arts.anime.marketplace"..
where entrepreneurs try to rip off one another and naive manga fans
that bought Japanese,Chinese mangas at a premium price try to resell
them at a profit.Go figure !
I think that the main obstacles to anime being more popular is the
mental block of North American,especially Americans that MUST identify
with a North American character*,preferably a young white male.
This is true of films,of TV ,hence why not for animes ?
*Note to the nitpickers-I am NOT saying that it is a fact 100% all the
time-but generally speaking...$$$ made from such films tend to confirm
this..It is also natural to identify oneself with people similar to
us.
And for animes,you have the cultural barrier..which is the biggest
stumbling block..Why on earth did N.Americans felt compelled to
rewrite(edit,cut,snip,etc..) such a benine anime as SMoon and to a
lesser extent Dragon Ball.And it was also true in in many European
countries as well..Thus a clash between Western and Oriental or
Asiatic values..
As Princess Mononoke makes it here,it will be a cultural shock
to most Americans and as some have seen it, stated that it is
violent,has some gore(blood) in it,not suited for a Geenral audience
but for PG+14 yrs,then it would ingrain the stereoptype that
animes=violence=Japan=evil ?Hey,do not discount the anti-Japanese
sentiment in the US.
I am off my rockers ?Well just go to the
"soc.culture.japan " newsgroup and you will more than an earful of it
and why the Japanese,Koreans,Chinese are all at odds with one another
and all(?) gang up on the Americans to a degree.
If you think I am paranoid,etc..just go check that newsgroup..
Finally,the pricing policies is the Achille's heel of the anime
business..Most video stores do not have a GOOD selection of animes and
recent ones,made with a decent dubbing.A good selection means at least
having on hand at least 250 animes titles + anime TV series...The
specialized anime bookshops over here have about that-but to rent
them $5.00 a copy,for just 1 day-you have to bring it back next
day.Prices go from $20 to $70(erotic animes are the most expensive as
are the mangas-why ?)Also Japanese erotic animes on CD-Roms, prices
ususally start a about $100 !
Only the drop in prices ,of the animes and of the mangas can make
this genre mainstream,to a degree ,or assure its viability..
Yours,ryb..
P.S. Some are saying,well learn Japanese..you ...(expletive).Japanese
is a hard language to learn,more than Chinese(?)(I was told this by a
Chinese).And Japanese learning material is VERY expensive.So in the
end maybe learning Chinese is not such a bad option..After 5 months of
self-learning Japanese I have about mastered only 500 kanjis and a
vocabulary of about 500 other words..I still cannot read
Japanese,just able to decipher some baic kanjis in titles.
My impressions are that Japanese talk faster than Italians !And as we
are in a hurry hurry society,time is the main ingredient that we lack
Tifa Lockhart
On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, ryb wrote:
> I do not know if the lurkers in this newsgroup care about animes
I think they would, else, they would not lurk.
> but as far as animes are concerned,and manga to a degree,I do think that
> all is not well in animedreamland.
>
> Just look at your own figures,the traffic that the different
> newsgroups devoted to anime generate..
>
> One of the most active one is the infamous "alt.fan.sailor-moon"
> like it or not..
Oooh! We're infamous now? Coool.
> It also has the most otaku wars,fanfics stories and web sites..If it
> weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck by now,at least in
> North America.As SMoon is waning down which anime can take up the flame
> ?I only see Dragon Ball,Dragon Ball Z,etc doing the trick..and in doing
> so they can attract more people to the anime/manga scene..
>
> Hence the group "alt.manga" is but moribund,the "rec.arts.manga" is
> half dead,the French anime group-traffic pitiful as NET connections in
> Europe very difficult and expensive to get unless you are at the
> University level(though it might change soon)..The only anime
> newsgroup that is active is the one "rec.arts.anime.marketplace"..
::Looks around:: Well, r.a.a.misc seems active. So does r.a.a.creative.
> where entrepreneurs try to rip off one another and naive manga fans
> that bought Japanese,Chinese mangas at a premium price try to resell
> them at a profit.Go figure !
>
> I think that the main obstacles to anime being more popular is the
> mental block of North American,especially Americans that MUST identify
> with a North American character*,preferably a young white male.
> This is true of films,of TV ,hence why not for animes ?
Not every American identifies with young white males.
> *Note to the nitpickers-I am NOT saying that it is a fact 100% all the
> time-but generally speaking...$$$ made from such films tend to confirm
> this..It is also natural to identify oneself with people similar to
> us.
Which explains the success of films such as Men in Black, which had a
young BLACK male, an OLD white male, and a young FEMALE in the lead roles.
Americans are more diverse than you think.
> And for animes,you have the cultural barrier..which is the biggest
> stumbling block..Why on earth did N.Americans felt compelled to
> rewrite(edit,cut,snip,etc..) such a benine anime as SMoon and to a
> lesser extent Dragon Ball.And it was also true in in many European
> countries as well..Thus a clash between Western and Oriental or
> Asiatic values..
Because American social mores are different from Japanese social mores.
In Japan, it is socially appropriate for a children's show to contain
partial nudity, homosexual characters, and mature themes. In America,
nudity, homosexuality, and maturity are not found in children's
entertainment.
> As Princess Mononoke makes it here,it will be a cultural shock
> to most Americans and as some have seen it, stated that it is
> violent,has some gore(blood) in it,not suited for a Geenral audience
> but for PG+14 yrs,then it would ingrain the stereoptype that
> animes=violence=Japan=evil ?Hey,do not discount the anti-Japanese
> sentiment in the US.
Hopefully, Americans will see the powerful environmental and social
commentary as well as the beauty of the animation. Hollywood films are
just as violent, or even more so (Starship Troopers), and most
> I am off my rockers ?
(A startled pause for this moment of lucidity...)
> Well just go to the "soc.culture.japan " newsgroup and you will more
> than an earful of it and why the Japanese,Koreans,Chinese are all at
> odds with one another and all(?) gang up on the Americans to a degree.
> If you think I am paranoid,etc..just go check that newsgroup..
I'm not going to comment, because I do not frequent soc.culture.japan.
However, the fact that ryb said it makes me not want to believe it.
> Finally,the pricing policies is the Achille's heel of the anime
> business..Most video stores do not have a GOOD selection of animes and
> recent ones,made with a decent dubbing.A good selection means at least
> having on hand at least 250 animes titles + anime TV series...
Where did you get your definition of a good video store?! For me, a good
video store has many different genres, with two or three shelves reserved
for animation. If I want a video store with 250 anime titles, I go to an
anime video store.
> The specialized anime bookshops over here have about that-but to rent
> them $5.00 a copy,for just 1 day-you have to bring it back next
> day.Prices go from $20 to $70(erotic animes are the most expensive as
> are the mangas-why ?)Also Japanese erotic animes on CD-Roms, prices
> ususally start a about $100 !
My anime video store rents videos at a dollar per day. And all this stuff
is expensive because it's imported. I'm not a big fan of H-anime,
H-manga, or H-games, so I can't comment on those prices.
> Only the drop in prices ,of the animes and of the mangas can make
> this genre mainstream,to a degree ,or assure its viability..
Yeah, that would be cool. It would be even cooler if it was all free!
> Yours,ryb..
>
> P.S. Some are saying,well learn Japanese..you ...(expletive).Japanese
> is a hard language to learn,more than Chinese(?)(I was told this by a
> Chinese).And Japanese learning material is VERY expensive.So in the
> end maybe learning Chinese is not such a bad option..After 5 months of
> self-learning Japanese I have about mastered only 500 kanjis and a
> vocabulary of about 500 other words..I still cannot read
> Japanese,just able to decipher some baic kanjis in titles.
> My impressions are that Japanese talk faster than Italians !And as we
> are in a hurry hurry society,time is the main ingredient that we lack
Um, I think this is gonna be my last response to a ryb post. I'm tired of
saying the same things over and over. And in this "hurry hurry society"
of ours, I don't wanna waste my time talking to a troll/flamebait/moron.
Farix
ryb <r...@colba.net> wrote in article <34687824...@news.total.net>...
> I do not know if the lurkers in this newsgroup care about animes,but
> as far as animes are concerned,and manga to a degree,I do think that
> all is not well in animedreamland.
Anime is still a niche market. It's not going to become mainstream over
night. In fact, there are allot of otakus who don't want to see anime
become mainstream.
> Just look at your own figures,the traffic that the different
> newsgroups devoted to anime generate..
>
> One of the most active one is the infamous "alt.fan.sailor-moon"
> like it or not..It also has the most otaku wars,fanfics stories and
> web sites..
So, we moonies are a bit fanatical about our show. What to make something
of it?
If it weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck
> by now,at least in North America.
ROFL. Even us moonies won't make that absurd of a claim. Sailor Moon
opened the door for a new generation of anime fans. But that is all it
did.
As SMoon is waning down which anime
> can take up the flame ?I only see Dragon Ball,Dragon Ball Z,etc doing
> the trick..and in doing so they can attract more people to the
> anime/manga scene..
Don't worry about attracting people to anime. Let them come on their own.
If they don't like it, don't start crying about it.
<sniped because I don't want my sides to start hurting.>
Farix
--
Farix's Den -- http://www.citynet.net/personal/farix/
Writer's Guide to OW!R -- http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Flats/6571/
Continuity has many identical brothers. -- Sprite 07/01/1997
Jason Martens
On 12 Nov 1997 02:25:38 GMT, Disruptor <math...@gte.net> wrote:
>ryb wrote:
><snip>
>> If it weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck
>> by now,at least in North America.As SMoon is waning down which anime
>> can take up the flame ?I only see Dragon Ball,Dragon Ball Z,etc doing
>> the trick..and in doing so they can attract more people to the
>> anime/manga scene..
>let's have a little history lesson of anime in the U.S
>Astroboy, 8th Man, Speed Racer, Star Blazers, Battle of the Planets,
>Robotech, the two Voltrons, Ronin Warriors, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball
>I know there were a few more but theese shows came on at different eras
>of television history. Anime has been aroun and will continue to be
>around.
Good point. Anime has a much longer history in the States than
Sailor Moon. But, as it seems to me ryb is most likely not American,
he wouldn't know it.
And if Dragon Ball "takes up the flame" (?), as ryb suggests it
will, I will run screaming into the night.
> A show that will probably replace Sailor Moon as the top anime
>in the U.S. willl be the new japanesee Speed Racer that will be coming
>next year.
You maybe right, but the "new" Speed Racer has come and gone in
Japan already. It premiered back in January of this year.
Unfortunately, it has none of the magic of the original. Seeing the
Mach 5 _fly_ it the opening credits made me want to puke.
><snip> Annoying stuff
>> Yours,ryb..
>My what? If you were something of mine I'd deny it and throw it into the
>recycling bin to make something useful next time
He's your "normal flamebaiting fool, ryb". I think _that_ was
what he meant.
Jason Martens
marte...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu
Philip Yff
In article <34687824...@news.total.net>, r...@colba.net says...
[snip]
> One of the most active one is the infamous "alt.fan.sailor-moon"
>like it or not..It also has the most otaku wars,fanfics stories and
>web sites..If it weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck
>by now,at least in North America.
I think the opposite is true. Since about 1990 there has been a
considerable increase in the interest of anime. It was because of that
increase that Sailor Moon came to be televised. Naturally, it
generated more interest. But Sailor Moon was not the original cause
of the interest in anime in North America, rather it was the result
of interest that already existed and which was growing fast.
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
Saben2
Disruptor wrote:
> ryb wrote:
> <snip>
something not worth commenting onif he could open his eyes, he would be
able to see that anime is that popular (and, IMHO, getting stronger)
but that is his OSHO (HA)
'a mind is a terrible thing to waste'
--
Saben2: Janitor and chief bottle washer
Church of our lady of the immaculate MISconception
(I'm sorry if it offends)
there is no ONE true way
(DON'T turn around)
DamienRoc
>> Hence the group "alt.manga" is but moribund,the "rec.arts.manga" is
>> half dead,the French anime group-traffic pitiful as NET connections in
>> Europe very difficult and expensive to get unless you are at the
>> University level(though it might change soon)..The only anime
>> newsgroup that is active is the one "rec.arts.anime.marketplace"..
>::Looks around:: Well, r.a.a.misc seems active. So does r.a.a.creative.
And raafandom and raainfo and raamusic and raagames and... need I go on?
Damien Roc
Umi's Champion
Nuriko's Honor Guard
Damien R...@aol.com
The Umi carries
It's beauty and grace with the
Girl who bears its name
(by Tsurugi ^_^)
AszdrubalGE
On 12 Nov 1997 14:59:47 -0700, "Eric The Read"
<emsc...@mail.uccs.edu> wrote:
><snip Aszdrubal's ranting>
Hey, I was enjoying that!
>
>*phew*
>
>For a minute there, I thought we'd finally found somebody that could make
>Aszdr00l seem sensible by comparison.
Who, what, why, tan-ku-chi, consequently we are the world of the
Horomachi period ah, yes. . . . Maybe, but, H2O of
bamboo flea, love in your Sigma-Z romance is a Rias coast, look out,
look out. . . . The tanks are coming through, go to track
five to catch the cuckoo.
>
>Glad to see I was mistaken.
>
Huh?
Think of Miss Ayumi! Miss Ayumi Sensei is without a shadow of a doubt,
on of the more enigmatic characters in Project A-ko. She's a popular
teacher at Graviton High School for Girls, only due to her mystifying
teaching methods (reading paragraphs from textbooks)
nobody is sure exactly what subject she's teaching!
>-=Eric
The Half-a-bee?
MYNAMEISSTILLASZDROOOOOBAL
"Uchuu ichi no tensai kadakusha, Washuu-chan desu!!!!!"
"Linage, social status... Why should things matter so much? That's how
grown-ups are. If that's so... I'd be happier being a child, never ever
growing up." --Washu
Philip Yff
In article <19971112232...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dcnit...@aol.com
says...
[snip]
>Anime NOT THAT POPULAR? I think anime's detractors should look no further
> than their local video store (Hollywood Video, Suncoast Video to name
> two)...where you wouldn't find ANY anime on the shelves eight years ago, there
> are now actual Anime Sections in the stores. If anime isn't THAT popular,
> then why are these major chain stores wasting their shelf space when they
> could just put out another 70 copies of "Twister" or "Bridges of Madison
> County"?
I told my local Suncoast the other day how pleased I was they had devoted
an entire shelf to one of my favorite animes--Armitage. The manager told
me the previous week it had been the best seller. I'm sure the mainstream
actors had something to do with it, but still...
Philip Yff
[snip]
>P.S. Some are saying,well learn Japanese..you ...(expletive).Japanese
>is a hard language to learn,more than Chinese(?)(I was told this by a
>Chinese).And Japanese learning material is VERY expensive.So in the
>end maybe learning Chinese is not such a bad option..After 5 months of
>self-learning Japanese I have about mastered only 500 kanjis and a
>vocabulary of about 500 other words..I still cannot read
>Japanese,just able to decipher some baic kanjis in titles.
>My impressions are that Japanese talk faster than Italians !And as we
>are in a hurry hurry society,time is the main ingredient that we lack
You shouldn't learn Japanese just to watch anime. However, should you
decide to learn Japanese, manga and anime provide some great source
material. As you have discovered, the hard part is not learning the
kanji but learning the syntax. You can translate a sentence word for
word and still not know its meaning because Japanese sentence construction
is so different from our own.
However, that is easily rectified. A basic Japanese course (self
taught or in class) will fill in a lot of gaps. In a couple of months
you'll find that your 500 kanji have tripled in value.
Doug Jacobs
ryb <r...@colba.net> wrote:
> I do not know if the lurkers in this newsgroup care about animes,but
> as far as animes are concerned,and manga to a degree,I do think that
> all is not well in animedreamland.
So _that's_ what your little world is called...
> Just look at your own figures,the traffic that the different
> newsgroups devoted to anime generate..
> One of the most active one is the infamous "alt.fan.sailor-moon"
> like it or not..It also has the most otaku wars,fanfics stories and
> web sites..If it weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck
> by now,at least in North America.As SMoon is waning down which anime
> can take up the flame ?I only see Dragon Ball,Dragon Ball Z,etc doing
> the trick..and in doing so they can attract more people to the
> anime/manga scene..
I really don't care one way or the other about Sailor Moon. I don't care
for the show, but hey, if someone else does, that's OK with me...
As for North America, without SailorMoon, I don't think there'd be many
differences in the fandom. Sailor Moon was popular among fans LONG
before it premeiered in the US. Ditto with Dragon Ball(Z).
Both Draon Ball and Sailor Moon are just the latest additions to the
growing list of shows that have helped attract fans. For me, it was
Robotech, for older fans, Star Blazers. Newer fans point to Akira or
a random video rental.
What will be the next big thing to draw fans? I dunno. If you told me
4 years ago Sailor Moon would be on N. American TV, I'd just laugh at you.
> Hence the group "alt.manga" is but moribund,the "rec.arts.manga" is
> half dead,the French anime group-traffic pitiful as NET connections in
> Europe very difficult and expensive to get unless you are at the
> University level(though it might change soon)..The only anime
> newsgroup that is active is the one "rec.arts.anime.marketplace"..
> where entrepreneurs try to rip off one another and naive manga fans
> that bought Japanese,Chinese mangas at a premium price try to resell
> them at a profit.Go figure !
Alt.manga - by it's very name - isn't propagated very well. As for
rec.arts.manga, I don't know many fans who are willing to tackle manga.
As a counterpoint, the Japanese language groups about manga are very
busy. You can't really compare Europe & N. America's network traffic
and you're pretty silly to try.
As for profiteering on the marketplace groups...get with it. That
sort of thing happens everywhere. Ever been to a convention? Not
just an anime convention, I mean _any_ sort of convention. Same thing.
> I think that the main obstacles to anime being more popular is the
> mental block of North American,especially Americans that MUST identify
> with a North American character*,preferably a young white male.
> This is true of films,of TV ,hence why not for animes ?
Er... I can quite a few cartoons on N. American TV where the main
character isn't White, male, or even _human_. L'see...there's
Bugs Bunny, Animaniacs, Ahhh! Real Monsters, Angry Beavers, Disney's
cartoons, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles...shall I continue?
> *Note to the nitpickers-I am NOT saying that it is a fact 100% all the
> time-but generally speaking...$$$ made from such films tend to confirm
> this..It is also natural to identify oneself with people similar to
> us.
I dunno, Bugs Bunny rakes it in pretty handily and he's not a white
human male. Mickey Mouse probably makes more money than some CEOs.
Your point is invalid.
> And for animes,you have the cultural barrier..which is the biggest
> stumbling block..Why on earth did N.Americans felt compelled to
> rewrite(edit,cut,snip,etc..) such a benine anime as SMoon and to a
> lesser extent Dragon Ball.And it was also true in in many European
> countries as well..Thus a clash between Western and Oriental or
> Asiatic values..
Well, there are cultural differences, but I wouldn't neccessarily
call it a clash between Western and "Asiatic" values... Besides, the
whole nudity thing has been beaten to death here.
> As Princess Mononoke makes it here,it will be a cultural shock
> to most Americans and as some have seen it, stated that it is
> violent,has some gore(blood) in it,not suited for a Geenral audience
> but for PG+14 yrs,then it would ingrain the stereoptype that
> animes=violence=Japan=evil ?Hey,do not discount the anti-Japanese
> sentiment in the US.
Frankly I think Mononoke could be used as an awakening to the idea
that animation is not just for children. From what I've heard about
this movie (I haven't seen it yet :( it doesn't sound any worse than
Starship Troopers. It is noteworthy to point out that there were
many young children in the audience during Starship Troopers. If they
can watch that, Mononoke shouldn't have any problems.
As for Mononoke enforcing the "anime = violent cartoon" stereotype...
it might. Who knows?
> I am off my rockers ?
I think you've established that pretty well...
> Well just go to the
> "soc.culture.japan " newsgroup and you will more than an earful of it
> and why the Japanese,Koreans,Chinese are all at odds with one another
> and all(?) gang up on the Americans to a degree.
You're mixing apples and oranges here. There are very different reasons
the Chinese and Koreans are upset with Japan. Again, most folks here
are aware of the tensions in Asia. What that has to do with your
argument (such as it is) is beyond me.
> If you think I am paranoid,etc..just go check that newsgroup..
You're not paranoid, as you say yourself, you're off your rockers
(most normal folks have only 1...but I guess yo ulike sticking "s"s
on the end of your nouns.)
> Finally,the pricing policies is the Achille's heel of the anime
> business..Most video stores do not have a GOOD selection of animes and
> recent ones,made with a decent dubbing.A good selection means at least
> having on hand at least 250 animes titles + anime TV series...The
> specialized anime bookshops over here have about that-but to rent
> them $5.00 a copy,for just 1 day-you have to bring it back next
> day.Prices go from $20 to $70(erotic animes are the most expensive as
> are the mangas-why ?)Also Japanese erotic animes on CD-Roms, prices
> ususally start a about $100 !
Are you talking about Japanese stores, N. American stores, or stores
in your happy "Animedreamland"? I know of no store in the US that can
boast 250 anime titles PLUS another 100 anime TV series...why? 'Cause
there haven't been that many translated yet. I think I'd have problems
even _naming_ 350 titles. I've also never heard of an anime bookshop.
Even in Japan, manga is simply 1 corner of the normal bookstore.
> Only the drop in prices ,of the animes and of the mangas can make
> this genre mainstream,to a degree ,or assure its viability..
I don't know where you got your prices from. The local Blockbuster
will rent what anime tapes it has for $3.00 for 3 days or whatever the
standard rate is. Purchasing tapes that are dubbed cost around $20 or
$25 dollars - subbed cost about $5 more. These prices were seen in the
local Suncoast Video and Mediacenter.
> Yours,ryb..
> P.S. Some are saying,well learn Japanese..you ...(expletive).Japanese
> is a hard language to learn,more than Chinese(?)(I was told this by a
> Chinese).
Unless you speak Chinese, then that statment has no meaning. If a
German person told you French was harder to learn than German, would you
think French is hard to learn? What wonderfully bizzare logic you have!
> And Japanese learning material is VERY expensive.
Point? Learning any language is not easy or cheap. It all comes down
to what your desires are I guess.
> So in the
> end maybe learning Chinese is not such a bad option..
Unless you want to talk to someone who's Japanese, or watch one of your
beloved "animes".
> After 5 months of
> self-learning Japanese I have about mastered only 500 kanjis and a
> vocabulary of about 500 other words..I still cannot read
> Japanese,just able to decipher some baic kanjis in titles.
> My impressions are that Japanese talk faster than Italians !And as we
> are in a hurry hurry society,time is the main ingredient that we lack
500 kanji in 5 months is not bad - in fact it's pretty good!
What it sounds like to me is that you lack paitence. Learning a
second (or third) language is not something you can simply do within
a few months. It takes _years_. Especially for a complex language
like Japanese since it differes so much from the Romance Languages
many of us are familar with.
Peter Choi
On 11 Nov 1997 18:18:13 GMT, "Farix" <fa...@citynet.net> wrote:
>ryb <r...@colba.net> wrote in article <34687824...@news.total.net>...
>> I do not know if the lurkers in this newsgroup care about animes,but
>> as far as animes are concerned,and manga to a degree,I do think that
>> all is not well in animedreamland.
>
>Anime is still a niche market. It's not going to become mainstream over
>night. In fact, there are allot of otakus who don't want to see anime
>become mainstream.
>
I want anime to be more mainstreamED. Actually I feel really
isolated. I was grown up with anime and my drawing style is definitely
anime. I'm studying animation and will transfer to Cal Arts next fall.
Most of animation production technics I know are Japanese way and I
really doubt Disney, Warner or Dreamworks will ever appriciate anime
style. I need more men in here with definite japanese (or Korean or
Taiwanese, whatever!) drawing style and visual interpretation...
And I will push my kids to draw in anime way...
Peter Choi
On 12 Nov 1997 01:59:57 GMT, jajuk...@aol.com (Jajuka2099) wrote:
>>.If it weren't for Sailor Moon,anime would be a dead duck
>>by now,at least in North America.
>
>You are wrong on this point. Anime was steadily gaining a larger audience
> before Smoon hit it big here. It certainly helped anime become more popular
> or at the very least attracted fans of the show to other anime of the like
> (Rayearth comes to mind, unfortunetly.) Anime wasn't a dead duck before Smoon
> and certainly won't be afterwords. Don't make reckless statements.
>Jajuka.
>Awful quiet over here, Y.
In Norther California anime is quite well known in local community.
There are lots of Asians in here (God, it's full of Asians!) and most
of Asian kids and young Asian adults including me have some anime
items.
Peter Choi
On Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:48:03 GMT, do....@spam.me (Jason Martens)
wrote:
>
> You maybe right, but the "new" Speed Racer has come and gone in
>Japan already. It premiered back in January of this year.
>Unfortunately, it has none of the magic of the original. Seeing the
>Mach 5 _fly_ it the opening credits made me want to puke.
>
Perhaps you didn't watch ending credit!
It's......(hey, do you expect me to say it's cool? Nah.)
So cheesy that I can even smell someone cutting some cheese so
badly....
Doug Jacobs
DamienRoc <dami...@aol.com> wrote:
> I sincerely doubt that Anime would be dead w/o Sailor Moon. Different, yes, but
> not dead. W/O Robotech, it might be dead. But I'm not to sure of that, either.
We'll have to give it a few years. With Robotech, it took me 4 years
before I found the anime fandom (eg. graduated high school, went to
college.) If Sailor Moon is the next Robotech (in terms of fan-conversions)
we'll know soon enough...
> What the hell does that have to do with anime newsgroups? Question: How many
> people here (or RAAM) watch regular TV (non-anime) regularly? Email
> Dami...@AOL.com with your answer, and I'll post the results.
Well, I'd watch Babylon5 regularly (can't wait for it to start on TNT ;)
and I'll tape DS9. I also watch KaBlam! when possible (Action League
Now! is great! :)
Is that "regular"?
> Hmm... Lessee about that. The highest grossing movies (US) are Star Wars and
> ET. The most popular character in the first spends most of the trilogy in a
> black suit... in the second, we're talking about a 3 foot tall alien. Yup,
> sure got those "young white males" down pat.
Don't forget Jurassic Park. Forget the people...the T-Rex was the star!
(and she doesn't even exist!) Then there's Alien...the main character
was female.
> Um... And this has to do with you, a French Canadian (if sources are correct)
> and anime in North America exactly how?
Maybe he's trying to American-bash. I've heard that some Canadians
(especially French-Canadians) don't appreciate how America is trying to
turn them into an America-clone.
(thinks for a bit)
Actually, this explains a lot of RYB's blabbering. He's bashing the US
through anime. Quite a unique approach.
> What ARE you talking about. Prices around here (the US, the largest
> non-Japanese market in the world) are usually $30 for 2 subbed episodes, $25
> for 2 dubbed episodes... That's TV series. OVAs vary, usually between $20 for
> one episode, and $30 for two or three (depends.) Movies also vary, but are
> usually about $25-$30.
> Hentai anime usually runs about $25-$30 per tape.
> Rentals are the same as any other video.
Man, I'd hate to live in AnimeDreamLand. Sounds like their prices are
way higher than ours, ne? ;)
> Hmm... You learned from a Chinese speaker that Japanese was harder than
> Chinese... Real good source there... Now, try asking someone who's native
> language is neither language.
...what, and have RYB use logic that applies to our reality? Perish
the thought! ;)
> That is an illusion. We have plenty of time, and the fiction that we don't is
> an impediment to those of us who know better. ^_^
"...Time is infinite. You are finite. This...is wrong tool." :)
DamienRoc
>Are you talking about Japanese stores, N. American stores, or stores
>in your happy "Animedreamland"? I know of no store in the US that can
>boast 250 anime titles PLUS another 100 anime TV series...why? 'Cause
>there haven't been that many translated yet. I think I'd have problems
>even _naming_ 350 titles. I've also never heard of an anime bookshop.
>Even in Japan, manga is simply 1 corner of the normal bookstore.
Actually, I know that it would be possible to have 250 OVA movie titles and 100
tv series titles. I know because I frequent a store that does it.
Granted, anything beyond a dedicated anime store is going to have to have a
VERY good reason to do so, but it is possible.
Brian E. Angliss
In article <19971113213...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
DamienRoc <dami...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Actually, I know that it would be possible to have 250 OVA movie titles and 100
> tv series titles. I know because I frequent a store that does it.
The regular video store I frequent has over 730 different anime videos,
but that's not different titles(ie Tenchi is one title, but a LOT of
videos, same with Star Blazers, Robotech, etc), and it's the best
selection I've seen. But the Video Station has the largest selection of
video titles in the entire state of Colorado, so I'm sure that's part of
it.
>Granted, anything beyond a dedicated anime store is going to have to have a
> VERY good reason to do so, but it is possible.
The Video Station has a lot of repeat customers because they have stuff
no-one else does, rentals are inexpensive, and the employees all know
thier movies, or anime, or documentaries, etc. extremely well.
Great video rental place, if you're in the Boulder, CO area.
Brian
AszdrubalGE
On 14 Nov 1997 00:05:44 GMT, "Kenneth B. Miller"
<san...@widowmaker.com> wrote:
>David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com> wrote in article
>> With ryb, it goes "a waste is a terrible thing to mind." If we all
>>ignore
>> him, he should go away.
>
>Doubtful, since he doesn't read replies, he probably won't even notice that
>we're ignoring him.
Oh, he reads replies. You can bet your etagramulfabetz that he does. I
just know. Otherwise there would be no pleasure in flametrolling. Some
people flametroll because they want to remind themselves of how smart
they are and/or how gullible the majority of the population is...or
appears to be.
Aszdrubal starts talking with Hannibal Lecter's voice.
Aszdrubal: I've read a lot of Ryb's posts on Dejanews this morning.
Ryb is probably in his later teens and has problems with things like
social skills and being in touch with with what's going on around
him. He is probably from a broken family in which the father is more
successful than he believes he could be and is used to being
supported. At this moment he may be contemplating some bigger mischief
than flametrolling. His sexuality might frighten him and he seeks
security by shutting out family and friends. Ryb also has a
personality that he wears like a mask among others and does only
mediocre in school.
The choices of Ryb's cross-postings indicate that he has to deal with
group perception a whole lot. He feels that he is special but that
feeling is not constant; it co-exists with a feeling of inferiority.
He doesn't care about people directly but only in relation to him.
This person needs a grip. He will grow out of it in due time but will
not return as a friendly poster, He has no interest in participation
and his knowledge of anime is limited to what he has learned on the
internet. Until he heard of Sailor Moon he had no idea about anime,
but it seems to have propelled him to torment the japanese. <g>
He has posted on several japanese discussion groups, probably as a
means to acquire "combat knowledge", meaning, he looks up the meaning
of words so he can safely construct elaborate trolling flames. Not a
complete artist, but dedicated. He has probably decided to act more
like the Iago type of villain than the obvious. If you compare him to
Iago (from Shakespeare's Othello) , you will see the manipulations,
the scheming, the very secretive and covert "planting of the seeds of
discord".
Anyway, if you ignore him, he may or may not go away, but it is more
likely than not that he will feel that this NG has been sucked dry of
what he needs and he'll start anew somewhere else.
My name is Aszdrubal.
>
>
>--
>the sanjian
>Penninsula Anime Club (P.A.C.)
>"Forget, for this moment, the smog, and the cars,
>and the restaurants, and the skating, and remember only this.
>A kiss may not be the truth, but it is what we wish were true."
><san...@widowmaker.com>
Disruptor
really wondered off the topic. Let us drop this thread and move onto
something more intelligent. Like the apparent coming of Cute Wars 3.
Antaeus Feldspar
In article <346ca24b....@news.erols.com>,
AszdrubalGE <idonthaveonethatidliketog...@eatspamanddie.com> wrote:
>On 14 Nov 1997 00:05:44 GMT, "Kenneth B. Miller"
><san...@widowmaker.com> wrote:
>
>>David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com> wrote in article
>
>>> With ryb, it goes "a waste is a terrible thing to mind." If we all
>>>ignore
>>> him, he should go away.
>>
>>Doubtful, since he doesn't read replies, he probably won't even notice that
>>we're ignoring him.
>
>Oh, he reads replies. You can bet your etagramulfabetz that he does. I
>just know. Otherwise there would be no pleasure in flametrolling. Some
>people flametroll because they want to remind themselves of how smart
>they are and/or how gullible the majority of the population is...or
>appears to be.
>
>Aszdrubal starts talking with Hannibal Lecter's voice.
>
>Aszdrubal: I've read a lot of Ryb's posts on Dejanews this morning.
>Ryb is probably in his later teens and has problems with things like
>social skills and being in touch with with what's going on around
>him. He is probably from a broken family in which the father is more
Hey, Aszdrubal -- this was way funny! You really ought to
practice this form of more subtle humor often... I really could hear it
in Hannibal Lecter's voice!
--
! -jc IS feld...@netcom.com !
! "'Asa Nisi Masa!' How strange! But what does it mean?" !
! *** Fight spam! Sign up at http://www.cauce.org/ ! *** !
Peter Choi
On 13 Nov 1997 02:39:03 -0800, Philip Yff <yf...@wizard.net> wrote:
>In article <346a94d4...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, shin...@hotmail.com says...
>
>[snip]
>
>> In Norther California anime is quite well known in local community.
>>There are lots of Asians in here (God, it's full of Asians!) and most
>>of Asian kids and young Asian adults including me have some anime
>>items.
>
>The store from which I bought my import Saturn and Playstation games
>noted the most popular titles seemed usually to relate to anime. On a
>whim, the owner decided he was going to go into the anime video tape
>rental business. He now has over 800 titles and does a thriving
>business. If anime isn't popular, that's news to him.
>
>Mata ato de,
>
>Phil Yff
We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
Philip Yff
In article <64gq59$f...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, "Matt says...
>> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
>I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
>without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
>can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>deep-thought type series.
The US film industry in general has proven itself to be highly
imaginative and technically superb. The US has also excelled in
animation, although the film industry has generally targeted the
younger audience. Consequently, I believe all the ingredients
are there to produce animated productions equal or superior to the
Japanese in imagination, technical competence, variety of genre, etc.
Some examples we might be overlooking for the people who think that
theatrical quality animation in North America is for kids--Lord of the
Rings, Wizards, and Rock and Rule.
Philip Yff
In article <346be89...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, shin...@hotmail.com says...
[snip]
> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
Here's an idea. If I were a TV studio like Fox, I would approach the
Japanese to produce a TV animation series for the American market place.
That would first produce a different kind of animation for American
consumption and second would galvanize the US industry to broaden its
horizons.
Doug Jacobs
DamienRoc <dami...@aol.com> wrote:
> Actually, I know that it would be possible to have 250 OVA movie titles and 100
> tv series titles. I know because I frequent a store that does it.
When you say "title" do you mean tape title, or show title?
Eg.
Is Nadia Tape 1, Tape 2, Tape 3... 1 title, or 3 ?
I say 1.
DamienRoc
>>I sincerely doubt that Anime would be dead w/o Sailor Moon. Different, yes,
but
>> not dead. W/O Robotech, it might be dead. But I'm not to sure of that,
either.
>Not that, either. (I know *I* never watched Robotech ). I wouldn't
>even say w/o StarBlazers. W/o Speed Racer, *maybe*
I never saw StarBlazers. And only a little of Speed Racer. Mostly, I watched
Voltron.
Here's the point: it took ALL these shows to get Anime to where it is today.
>>> I think that the main obstacles to anime being more popular is the
>>>mental block of North American,especially Americans that MUST identify
>>>with a North American character*,preferably a young white male.
>>> This is true of films,of TV ,hence why not for animes ?
>>What the hell does that have to do with anime newsgroups? Question: How many
>> people here (or RAAM) watch regular TV (non-anime) regularly? Email
>> Dami...@AOL.com with your answer, and I'll post the results.
>What? I have a special anime-only feed for Sports Center--you know,
>the one in which Priss does the theme.
No, I don't know
>^_^
*_*
>>> I am off my rockers ?
>>Yes. Thank you for asking.
>He didn't ask us it, he *told* us it.
No, there's a "?" which, I would gather, indicates a question.
DamienRoc
[snip Asz's psychological evaluation of ryb]
><clap><clap><clap>I think your right about ryb, and now that this has
>really wondered off the topic. Let us drop this thread and move onto
>something more intelligent. Like the apparent coming of Cute Wars 3.
CUTE WARS's third coming... It sigifies Revelation.
Damien Roc
prophet of the Cute Anime Guys who look like Girls in
Philip Yff
In article <feldsparE...@netcom.com>, feld...@netcom.com says...
;>In article <64gq59$f...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>,
:>Matt McDevitt <mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
;>>> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
;>>>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
;>>
;>>
;>>I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
;>>without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc)
;>
;> Guess what?
:> Most Japanese can't do it, either.
;> We simply see the results of the ones that *can* do it.
:> We need "Japanese help?" Only because there are double standards
;>like yours in the business itself: the people who could produce mature,
;>thoughtful, intriguing animation are never given the resources for it --
:>unless they already have a proven track record overseas, perhaps.
That's a good point. More shows fail than succeed. We, so far, have
had the luxury of going and picking up the ones that have been successful.
I was once told that the break even point for a fairly low budget 30 minute
OAV was when 5,000 copies were sold. Often, however, that sales mark
could not be reached. Now, when you talk of OAVs of much higher quality,
(and, of course, muc higher price to produce) like RG Veda, Battle Angel,
and Sol Bianca, it is no wonder so few episodes are produced.
Rommel Calderon
Oh, for general information, Transformers was originally an American
product.
Antaeus Feldspar
In article <64gq59$f...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt McDevitt <mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
>
>
>I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
>without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc)
Guess what?
Most Japanese can't do it, either.
We simply see the results of the ones that *can* do it.
We need "Japanese help?" Only because there are double standards
like yours in the business itself: the people who could produce mature,
thoughtful, intriguing animation are never given the resources for it --
unless they already have a proven track record overseas, perhaps.
We
>can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
The way "Lily C.A.T." and "Lensman" live up to anime standards?
>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>deep-thought type series.
Why do you say "of course," as if it wasn't a self-fulfilling
prophecy?
>Matt McDevitt
>mak...@ix.netcom.com
-jc
Joaquin Lopez
On 14 Nov 1997 01:40:07 -0800, Philip Yff <yf...@wizard.net> wrote:
>The US film industry in general has proven itself to be highly
>imaginative and technically superb. The US has also excelled in
>animation, although the film industry has generally targeted the
>younger audience. Consequently, I believe all the ingredients
>are there to produce animated productions equal or superior to the
>Japanese in imagination, technical competence, variety of genre, etc.
Personally, I don't think we could do a decent attempt. It would be
some unimaginative, money-grubbing jerk who realizes how popular anime
is becoming that would try and make it, just hoping to cash in. He'd
find the people who could get it done the fastest and cheapest, and
then he would spend the rest of his budget on marketing. Just my 2 yen
. . .
Joaquin Lopez
Rommel Calderon
Has anyone heard of Dreamwork's upcoming "Invasion America?" A speaker from
DreamWork's TV Animation division came and spoke at my college last spring
and told us about it. I had already known for months about it. Anyway, its
to be aired on the WB during primetime, beginning in January. Its a sci-fi
show, and the short clips I were able to glimpse showed a lot, I mean a lot,
of promise. Personally, I think if the American public looked at animation
differently, ie, another medium for entertainment that is not just for kids,
then Americans would blow away the Japanese. Of course the Japanese have
had a head start, but it wouldn't take long.
Americans animate much differently than the Japanese. There tends to be
better body movement, more realism, etc. One need not look far. The Batman
Animated series did/does this rather well. Did anyone catch the
Batman/Superman crossover. Spectacular. BUT, it was directed by a
Japanese, so it might not count. But forget about that, there were numerous
others that were American done and were just as spectaculer. Also, there
were several episodes of Gargoyles with just as awesome animation(but, I do
beleive many of these were Japanese animated, but American directed).
There's a lot of diffreences between the two. But, I am a firm beleiver
that Americans can do it just as well, if not better than the Japanese, if
they really wanted to.
Peter Choi
On 14 Nov 1997 01:48:36 -0800, Philip Yff <yf...@wizard.net> wrote:
>In article <346be89...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, shin...@hotmail.com says...
>
>[snip]
>
>> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
>
>Here's an idea. If I were a TV studio like Fox, I would approach the
>Japanese to produce a TV animation series for the American market place.
>That would first produce a different kind of animation for American
>consumption and second would galvanize the US industry to broaden its
>horizons.
>
>Mata ato de,
>
>Phil Yff
Tokyo Movie Shinsha tried that thing with Bionic Six.
Peter Choi
>> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
>
>
>I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
>without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
>can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
>
Yes, you are damn right! Especially they need extensive help from
Japan about color design. Of course they also need many things about
prop and background design.
>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>deep-thought type series.
>
We can't still expect it. Even Spawn was kind of....nevermind.
>Matt McDevitt
>mak...@ix.netcom.com
>
>
>
Brian E. Angliss
In article <346d5736...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
Peter Choi <shin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
>>without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
>>can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
>>
> Yes, you are damn right! Especially they need extensive help from
>Japan about color design. Of course they also need many things about
>prop and background design.
I find that Alladin, Beauty and the Beast, and Fantasia are some of the
best animation, in almost all respects, that I've seen. And this includes
all the anime I've seen too. That's not to say that US animation couldn't
use some help, of course, but I have to say that the US animation studios
could, with a little work, produce an animation with all the poignancy of
Area88 or Macross Plus. If Hollywood can crank out Schlinder's List,
Gattica, or Contact, then they should be just as able to animate a mature
theme too.
>>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>>deep-thought type series.
What, the Simpson's isn't a deep-thought series? Wow. Sorry, gotta
disagree. I don't know of any other series which reflect our cultural
idiosyncracies as well as The Simpsons does. Course, I haven't watched
the Simpsons much recently, so it might have changed.
> We can't still expect it. Even Spawn was kind of....nevermind.
I found the animation of Spawn, as well as the concepts and themes within
it, to be better than a large percentage of the anime I've seen. I
personally feel that Spawn is a very good animation, and if studios keep
cranking out animation of that quality(although with different content.
It's possible to do great stuff without loads of violence), the US will
regularly be producing animation of equal quality to the best of anime.
Brian
Brian E. Angliss
In article <19971114232...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
DamienRoc <dami...@aol.com> wrote:
>The store I frequent is a dedicated anime store. We've got a little over 400
> tapes (I think) but, obviously, far fewer titles. It's steadily increasing,
> too.
Having a dedicated anime store would be a wonderful thing. It would
probably get videos much faster, and some of the harder to get ahold of
titles too. But so it goes.
>The Anime Cafe wasn't always the best in the area, but I'm pretty sure, for
> Anime at least, that it is now.
Glad to hear you have a good anime store. There are a lot of people who
don't.
Brian
Disruptor
Peter Choi wrote:
>
> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 00:11:38 -0600, "Matt McDevitt"
> <mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
> >>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
> >
> >
> >without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
> >can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
> >
> Yes, you are damn right! Especially they need extensive help from
> Japan about color design. Of course they also need many things about
> prop and background design.
>
> >TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
> >deep-thought type series.
> >
>
What about Beast Wars Transformers(Beasties in Canada) I know it's CGI
but it has proven to be a fine story and from what I understand it's now
starting to be shown in Japan
Arnold Kim
DamienRoc wrote:
>
> >>> I am off my rockers ?
>
> >>Yes. Thank you for asking.
>
> >He didn't ask us it, he *told* us it.
>
> No, there's a "?" which, I would gather, indicates a question.
But this is ryb, remember. The one who has little command of english
grammar, punctuation, and logical thought.
Arnold Kim
getting tired of ryb
Peter Choi
On 15 Nov 1997 19:36:27 GMT, ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Brian E.
Angliss) wrote:
>In article <346d5736...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
>Peter Choi <shin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I find that Alladin, Beauty and the Beast, and Fantasia are some of the
>best animation, in almost all respects, that I've seen. And this includes
>all the anime I've seen too. That's not to say that US animation couldn't
>use some help, of course, but I have to say that the US animation studios
>could, with a little work, produce an animation with all the poignancy of
>Area88 or Macross Plus. If Hollywood can crank out Schlinder's List,
>Gattica, or Contact, then they should be just as able to animate a mature
>theme too.
>
Well, I'm not sure you are really right. I was a bit surprised that
Disney uses great amount of yellow and orange colors. You can't find
that much blue tone in Disney cartoons. Company trait? I dunno but one
thing is certain that yellow and orange are prefered by young kids
under 7.... Even Fox's Anastasia uses lots of yellow and orange.
>>>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>>>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>>>deep-thought type series.
>
>What, the Simpson's isn't a deep-thought series? Wow. Sorry, gotta
>disagree. I don't know of any other series which reflect our cultural
>idiosyncracies as well as The Simpsons does. Course, I haven't watched
>the Simpsons much recently, so it might have changed.
>
Simpson's cool as it is. But it works only in US. (it didn't make it
that much in Korea...so it cancelled) How's King of the Hill?
>> We can't still expect it. Even Spawn was kind of....nevermind.
>
>I found the animation of Spawn, as well as the concepts and themes within
>it, to be better than a large percentage of the anime I've seen. I
>personally feel that Spawn is a very good animation, and if studios keep
>cranking out animation of that quality(although with different content.
>It's possible to do great stuff without loads of violence), the US will
>regularly be producing animation of equal quality to the best of anime.
>
>Brian
>
Spawn's done by KoKo Entertainment of Korea which does lots and lots
of US subcontractions. RECENTLY KOKO ENTERTAINMENT DID AN ORIGINAL
13-EPISODE KOREAN ANMATION SERIES CALLED 'SOUL FRAME RAZENKA'.
Still, Spawn's prop design and color matching suck a bit.
Peter Choi
On 15 Nov 1997 21:49:25 GMT, Disruptor <math...@gte.net> wrote:
>Peter Choi wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 00:11:38 -0600, "Matt McDevitt"
>> <mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>> >>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
>> >
>> >
>> >I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
>> >without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
>> >can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
>> >
>> Yes, you are damn right! Especially they need extensive help from
>> Japan about color design. Of course they also need many things about
>> prop and background design.
>>
>> >Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>> >TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>> >deep-thought type series.
>> >
>>
>> We can't still expect it. Even Spawn was kind of....nevermind.
>
>What about Beast Wars Transformers(Beasties in Canada) I know it's CGI
>but it has proven to be a fine story and from what I understand it's now
>starting to be shown in Japan
Fine story?! Please! Beast wars is nothing more than another
20-something-minutes-long-toy-commercial!!
Peter Choi
>Has anyone heard of Dreamwork's upcoming "Invasion America?" A speaker from
>DreamWork's TV Animation division came and spoke at my college last spring
>and told us about it. I had already known for months about it. Anyway, its
>to be aired on the WB during primetime, beginning in January. Its a sci-fi
>show, and the short clips I were able to glimpse showed a lot, I mean a lot,
>of promise. Personally, I think if the American public looked at animation
>differently, ie, another medium for entertainment that is not just for kids,
>then Americans would blow away the Japanese. Of course the Japanese have
>had a head start, but it wouldn't take long.
I heard that it's really cool but I couldn't find any info about IA
on the net. As I heard it's superb! (I wanna work in Dreamworks
actually. I'm studying animation!)
>
>Americans animate much differently than the Japanese. There tends to be
>better body movement, more realism, etc. One need not look far. The Batman
>Animated series did/does this rather well. Did anyone catch the
>Batman/Superman crossover. Spectacular. BUT, it was directed by a
>Japanese, so it might not count. But forget about that, there were numerous
>others that were American done and were just as spectaculer. Also, there
>were several episodes of Gargoyles with just as awesome animation(but, I do
>beleive many of these were Japanese animated, but American directed).
>
Well, some golden era US cartoons are really spectacular. I saw some
old feature film like 'Hoppity goes to town' and 'Dumbo'. Of course I
had a chance to watch an old French feature 'Chimneysweeper and
Sheperdess' and it was visually spectacular(reminds me of Metropolis).
Of course, Smurf and it's sea-dwelling cousin are also beautiful.
You are quite right. US cartoon strive on movements and it's their
tradition. Hey, but isn't it that bad to learn some good stuff from
other countries? In terms of Hollywood that have lots of things to
learn from French cinema.
>There's a lot of diffreences between the two. But, I am a firm beleiver
>that Americans can do it just as well, if not better than the Japanese, if
>they really wanted to.
>
>
Yeah, i agree.
Anyway your name is pretty funky. Rommel, hmm. Remnds me of that great
war hero who unfortunately served that evil empire.
Philip Yff
In article <64ktjr$8...@peabody.colorado.edu>, ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU says...
[snip]
>I find that Alladin, Beauty and the Beast, and Fantasia are some of the
>best animation, in almost all respects, that I've seen. And this includes
>all the anime I've seen too. That's not to say that US animation couldn't
>use some help, of course, but I have to say that the US animation studios
>could, with a little work, produce an animation with all the poignancy of
>Area88 or Macross Plus. If Hollywood can crank out Schlinder's List,
>Gattica, or Contact, then they should be just as able to animate a mature
>theme too.
The Japanese also use sophisticated cinematographic techniques in the
filming of their animation. For example, when was the last time you
saw panning in a Disney film--yet, it's a staple of Japanese
animation.
Philip Yff
In article <64gq59$f...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, "Matt says...
[snip]
>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>deep-thought type series.
Simpsons, even today, has a lot of 'deep-thought' behind it. The
animation provides an excellent medium where high satire can be used
to good effect to take issue with sacred cows.
Mike Breen
>Gattica, or Contact, then they should be just as able to animate a mature
>theme too.
"Should be" and "will" are two totally different things. Sure,
Hollywood _could_ do something at the level of Area 88 or Mac+, but
they never _will_ unless the attitude of animation=cartoons=kids is
changed. Any good large-scale exposure that anime gets is only gonna
help the American industry because then it'll have been proven by
someone other than themselves, and they won't have had to spend money
on something that involves risk. So if the Ghilbi films do well at an
"adult" level and not a children's level we may see a fundemental
change.
---Mike
To send me legitimate non-spam mail, replace
"NO_SPAM" in the domian with "channel1"
Visit the Craving Orange homepage at:
http://user1.channel1.com/users/mikeb
Disruptor
Peter Choi wrote:
>
> On 15 Nov 1997 21:49:25 GMT, Disruptor <math...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >Peter Choi wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 00:11:38 -0600, "Matt McDevitt"
> >> <mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
> >> >>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
> >> >without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
> >> >can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
> >> >
> >> Yes, you are damn right! Especially they need extensive help from
> >> Japan about color design. Of course they also need many things about
> >> prop and background design.
> >>
> >> >TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
> >> >deep-thought type series.
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >What about Beast Wars Transformers(Beasties in Canada) I know it's CGI
> >but it has proven to be a fine story and from what I understand it's now
> >starting to be shown in Japan
>
> Fine story?! Please! Beast wars is nothing more than another
> 20-something-minutes-long-toy-commercial!!
stories are more character driven. It might have started out as a
commerical for toys but the creators of the show try to make it more
plot driven than anything else.
Rommel Calderon
In terms of getting Anime exposure in the US, I posted an idea:
Macross Plus: Movie Edition, was slated for a theatrical release in the US,
but was cancelled. I suggest that we start a letter writing campaign to
Manga so that they will release Mac+ in US theaters, as they did Ghost in
the Shell. Personally, it would make for a better exposure to Anime than
either Akira or Ghost in the Shell because of its wider appeal in terms of
story, character, and music. Hell, its just like Top Gun. I mean, honestly
tell me you weren't scratching your head at the end of Ghost in the Shell or
Akira. These two were too damn cerebral for the mainstream, whereas Macross
Plus is just as intelligent, yet has that Top Gun-nish feel(that lovin'
feelin? :P). Let me know.
RooC
Rommel Calderon
Maybe we can also get a release of Escaflowne on US TV. If Invasion America
works out, I think Esca might get a lot viewers(because of its
action/romance/fantasy/sci-fi appeal). Then, they can release Eva for those
X-Files - type folks.
Rommel Calderon wrote in message <64qlgp$4...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
:In terms of getting Anime exposure in the US, I posted an idea:
:
:
:
:
DamienRoc
>> We need more anime until US animators eventually turn their
>>production process into Japanese way. I mean, of course, TV cartoons.
>I doubt that most Americans could successfully produce a great "anime"
>without Japanese help (voice acting, *ideas*, plot, characters, etc) We
>can't seem to make anything that lives up to Anime standards.......
Entirely subjective standards. I will also contend that ther is voice acting,
plot, and character in American animation. True, the plots tend to not be long
running, but that's actually a powerful trait: the ability to be watched at
any point, without prior exposure and be able to tell what's going on. Tell
me, if you jumped into, say, episode 25 (picked at random) of Fushigi Yuugi,
would you understand what's going on? I doubt it. OTOH, if you watched the
25th episode of the Simpsons, you'd be able to jump right in, enjoy it, and
not feel lost.
>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>deep-thought type series.
We can, and have, but the focus of American shows in general is on more compact
storylines.
Damien Roc
Umi's Champion
Nuriko's Honor Guard
Damien R...@aol.com
The Umi carries
It's beauty and grace with the
Girl who bears its name
(by Tsurugi ^_^)
Conclusion of Cute Wars 2:
Cuteness is subjective.
DamienRoc
>>The store I frequent is a dedicated anime store. We've got a little over 400
>> tapes (I think) but, obviously, far fewer titles. It's steadily increasing,
>> too.
>Having a dedicated anime store would be a wonderful thing. It would
>probably get videos much faster, and some of the harder to get ahold of
>titles too. But so it goes.
Sometimes that's true. However, due to cold, hard, economics, not much gets
ordered for "shelf selling" it's mostly special orders.
>>The Anime Cafe wasn't always the best in the area, but I'm pretty sure, for
>> Anime at least, that it is now.
>Glad to hear you have a good anime store. There are a lot of people who
>don't.
However, it's not required. A year ago, before the Anime Cafe opened (and
after, even) I was running around between various video rental stores (mostly
Hollywood Video) and ONLY renting Anime. I would spend something like a
hundred dollars a month in rentals alone, I'd repeat a title very rarely, and
Even now, there's still some titles out there in those stores that I haven't
seen yet. (Some titles that the Anime Cafe doesn't have.)
If you want rentals, most video chains should have them. If it's a smaller,
local store, you might suggest to them about carrying more Anime.
Damien Roc
I know that CPM has an advertising video aimed at video store owners
stanlee
On 18 Nov 1997, DamienRoc wrote:
>
> Entirely subjective standards. I will also contend that ther is voice acting,
> plot, and character in American animation. True, the plots tend to not be long
> running, but that's actually a powerful trait: the ability to be watched at
> any point, without prior exposure and be able to tell what's going on. Tell
> me, if you jumped into, say, episode 25 (picked at random) of Fushigi Yuugi,
> would you understand what's going on? I doubt it. OTOH, if you watched the
> 25th episode of the Simpsons, you'd be able to jump right in, enjoy it, and
> not feel lost.
>
[snip]
>
> We can, and have, but the focus of American shows in general is on more compact
> storylines.
>
Here's a thought.
American shows such as the Simpsons use more compact storylines
also for the purpose of giving more "degrees of freedom"
to the broadcasters with regards to reruns
(i.e. the show need not be shown in a specific order).
However, AFAIK, in Japan, anime shows hardly do any reruns
except on special cases like for the Eva movies or anniversaries.
Instead, once you miss an ep, that's it - just wait for the LD.
So, the anime producers don't need to worry about
the broadcasters and reruns and
could then just write a single long storyline.
Now, is that thought valid?
Stan
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \____|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita http://www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
| ( _| | Univ. of Rochester
\ ______| _______ ____ ___ sd0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | sta...@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
/___/\/\___\__| |__|___| \____|
Ru Igarashi
DamienRoc (dami...@aol.com) wrote:
>Entirely subjective standards. I will also contend that ther is voice acting,
> plot, and character in American animation. True, the plots tend to not be long
> running, but that's actually a powerful trait: the ability to be watched at
> any point, without prior exposure and be able to tell what's going on. Tell
> me, if you jumped into, say, episode 25 (picked at random) of Fushigi Yuugi,
> would you understand what's going on? I doubt it. OTOH, if you watched the
> 25th episode of the Simpsons, you'd be able to jump right in, enjoy it, and
> not feel lost.
On the otherhand, many episodic shows tend not to dwell on an overall
story arc. That ability to be watched at any point then can become a
significant weakness, especially if there is a desire for a show that
"has more depth or more substance". Being TV or video, of course, it
helps to have the standalone quality, but having that arc going on
has given many a show strong viewership returns. That's one reason
why soap operas have been so disgustingly long lived. I would say
that the standalone philosophy is weaker than the long plot philosophy.
ru
Philip Yff
In article <64qlgp$4...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Rommel says...
>In terms of getting Anime exposure in the US, I posted an idea:
:>Macross Plus: Movie Edition, was slated for a theatrical release in the US,
;>but was cancelled. I suggest that we start a letter writing campaign to
:>Manga so that they will release Mac+ in US theaters, as they did Ghost in
:>the Shell. Personally, it would make for a better exposure to Anime than
:>either Akira or Ghost in the Shell because of its wider appeal in terms of
:>story, character, and music. Hell, its just like Top Gun. I mean, honestly
:>tell me you weren't scratching your head at the end of Ghost in the Shell or
;>Akira. These two were too damn cerebral for the mainstream, whereas Macross
;>Plus is just as intelligent, yet has that Top Gun-nish feel(that lovin'
:>feelin? :P). Let me know.
Should the letter writing campaign go to Manga or to a big theater chain
or to both?
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
Watashi wa jiyuu na no yo... jiyuu...
Indeed I am free... free...
Sharon Apple--Macross Plus
Ru Igarashi
DamienRoc (dami...@aol.com) wrote:
>Now then, to related Beast Wars to Anime, I noticed that many Anime tricks were
> used. Especially prominent was the "action happening offscreen" (or rather,
> non-prominent) tricking the viewer into thinking there was more happening that
> there really was.
From what I've heard, that is not surprising, considering some of the
animators are anime fans.
ru
stanlee
On 18 Nov 1997, Philip Yff wrote:
> In article <64qlgp$4...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Rommel says...
>
> >In terms of getting Anime exposure in the US, I posted an idea:
>
> :>Macross Plus: Movie Edition, was slated for a theatrical release in the US,
> ;>but was cancelled. I suggest that we start a letter writing campaign to
> :>Manga so that they will release Mac+ in US theaters, as they did Ghost in
> :>the Shell. Personally, it would make for a better exposure to Anime than
> :>either Akira or Ghost in the Shell because of its wider appeal in terms of
> :>story, character, and music. Hell, its just like Top Gun. I mean, honestly
> :>tell me you weren't scratching your head at the end of Ghost in the Shell or
> ;>Akira. These two were too damn cerebral for the mainstream, whereas Macross
> ;>Plus is just as intelligent, yet has that Top Gun-nish feel(that lovin'
> :>feelin? :P). Let me know.
>
> Should the letter writing campaign go to Manga or to a big theater chain
> or to both?
>
Since we're in this topic, here's an idea.
Is there any anime movie out there which has Sony as a sponsor?
Since Sony-Loews owns the largest theater chain in the US
(note: still under DOJ consideration),
that may make it easier for the anime company
who buys the rights to that show to give it a run in theatres
- especially if the show proves to be popular enough
as well as the games (if any) for Sony's Playstation.
Well?
Rommel Calderon
I say both. For a theater chain, I say we aim it at several, not just one.
I'm from California(L.A. baby!!!) so I say we aim it at AMC, Mann, and
Edwards. I do, however, go to school in Savannah, Georgia, so a copy should
go to Carmike Cinemas as well.
If anyone is interested, please write me.
Philip Yff wrote in message <64rouu$e...@drn.zippo.com>...
:In article <64qlgp$4...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Rommel says...
:
:>In terms of getting Anime exposure in the US, I posted an idea:
:
::>Macross Plus: Movie Edition, was slated for a theatrical release in the
US,
:;>but was cancelled. I suggest that we start a letter writing campaign to
::>Manga so that they will release Mac+ in US theaters, as they did Ghost in
::>the Shell. Personally, it would make for a better exposure to Anime than
::>either Akira or Ghost in the Shell because of its wider appeal in terms
of
::>story, character, and music. Hell, its just like Top Gun. I mean,
honestly
::>tell me you weren't scratching your head at the end of Ghost in the Shell
or
:;>Akira. These two were too damn cerebral for the mainstream, whereas
Macross
:;>Plus is just as intelligent, yet has that Top Gun-nish feel(that lovin'
::>feelin? :P). Let me know.
:
:Should the letter writing campaign go to Manga or to a big theater chain
:or to both?
:
:Mata ato de,
Matt McDevitt
>>Beauty and the Beast, actually. The initial song(about a little town.
>>Don't remember the title) has several full 360 pans around Belle, the
>>town, etc.
>
>>I don't know if they've tried it since, though. I seem to remember some
>>stuff in Alladin, but I haven't watched it recently enough to be be sure.
Now has it occured to you that they (Disney) just MIGHT have got that from
observing their main nemesis, Anime? hmmmmmmmmm?
Anime still does it better.......HA!
Matt
Arnold Kim
stanlee wrote:
>
> Since we're in this topic, here's an idea.
>
> Is there any anime movie out there which has Sony as a sponsor?
>
> Since Sony-Loews owns the largest theater chain in the US
> (note: still under DOJ consideration),
> that may make it easier for the anime company
> who buys the rights to that show to give it a run in theatres
> - especially if the show proves to be popular enough
> as well as the games (if any) for Sony's Playstation.
>
> Well?
I think Sony was involved in thew US release of the Street FIghter II
animated movie, but that's it.
Arnold Kim
came back from the city...
Philip Yff
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.971118...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>,
stanlee says...
[snip]
>Since we're in this topic, here's an idea.
>Is there any anime movie out there which has Sony as a sponsor?
>Since Sony-Loews owns the largest theater chain in the US
>(note: still under DOJ consideration),
>that may make it easier for the anime company
>who buys the rights to that show to give it a run in theatres
>- especially if the show proves to be popular enough
>as well as the games (if any) for Sony's Playstation.
Not a movie, but a series. The fabulously great Rurouni Kenshin. I
wouldn't be surprised to see a movie of it soon. There is a
Rurouni Kenshin Playstation fighting game--however, it's just
average as games go. The series, besides being great anime, was a
showcase for some of Sony's singing groups. The backgound music is
also extremely good.
As I posted once before, this is a great opportunity for Sony to make
greater inroads into the US entertainment industry.
DamienRoc
>>The Japanese also use sophisticated cinematographic techniques in the
>>filming of their animation. For example, when was the last time you
>>saw panning in a Disney film--yet, it's a staple of Japanese
>>animation.
>Beauty and the Beast, actually. The initial song(about a little town.
>Don't remember the title) has several full 360 pans around Belle, the
>town, etc.
>I don't know if they've tried it since, though. I seem to remember some
>stuff in Alladin, but I haven't watched it recently enough to be be sure.
The Lion King... epecially the opening song, had some exceptionally stunning
cinematographic sequences.
Damien Roc
Kenneth B. Miller
DamienRoc <dami...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971119001...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >>The Japanese also use sophisticated cinematographic techniques in the
> >>filming of their animation. For example, when was the last time you
> >>saw panning in a Disney film--yet, it's a staple of Japanese
> >>animation.
>
> >Beauty and the Beast, actually. The initial song(about a little town.
> >Don't remember the title) has several full 360 pans around Belle, the
> >town, etc.
>
> >I don't know if they've tried it since, though. I seem to remember some
> >stuff in Alladin, but I haven't watched it recently enough to be be
sure.
>
> The Lion King... epecially the opening song, had some exceptionally
stunning
> cinematographic sequences.
Sanjian shakes his head slowly.
Pundits and Yeah-sayers all of you.
^_^.
--
the sanjian
Penninsula Anime Club (P.A.C.)
"Forget, for this moment, the smog, and the cars,
and the restaurants, and the skating, and remember only this.
A kiss may not be the truth, but it is what we wish were true."
<san...@widowmaker.com>
Jeffrey P. Gaskell
Rommel Calderon (ro...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: In terms of getting Anime exposure in the US, I posted an idea:
: Macross Plus: Movie Edition, was slated for a theatrical release in the US,
: but was cancelled. I suggest that we start a letter writing campaign to
: Manga so that they will release Mac+ in US theaters, as they did Ghost in
: the Shell. Personally, it would make for a better exposure to Anime than
: either Akira or Ghost in the Shell because of its wider appeal in terms of
: story, character, and music. Hell, its just like Top Gun. I mean, honestly
: tell me you weren't scratching your head at the end of Ghost in the Shell or
: Akira. These two were too damn cerebral for the mainstream, whereas Macross
: Plus is just as intelligent, yet has that Top Gun-nish feel(that lovin'
: feelin? :P). Let me know.
: RooC
Akira still sits atop the heap of helping to give anime mainstream
exposure. Love it or hate it, it really gave anime a huge boost. Heck,
it's even a Criterion Collection title.
Ghost in the Shell and Mac Plus are still small potatoes compared to Akira.
I think what gave Akira the edge over Ghost and MacPlus is that it tells
a story that goes beyond what the audience is prepared for. The
storyline goes awry and the animation is over the top, but it was destined
for cult status.
Ghost in the Shell is compared to Blade Runner, Mac Plus to Top Gun, but
Akira just is...no comparison.
Mononoke Hime seems poised to make a huge impact next year when it makes
its international theatrical debuts. That'll be the next big shot in the
arm for anime exposure--and the rest of the Ghibli releases when they
come out.
--Jeff Gaskell
Antaeus Feldspar
In article <64tqo4$k...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt McDevitt <mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>Beauty and the Beast, actually. The initial song(about a little town.
>>>Don't remember the title) has several full 360 pans around Belle, the
>>>town, etc.
>>
>>>I don't know if they've tried it since, though. I seem to remember some
>>>stuff in Alladin, but I haven't watched it recently enough to be be sure.
>
>
>observing their main nemesis, Anime? hmmmmmmmmm?
It hasn't occurred to me that there's a lot of relevance to
that. Has it occurred to you that panning just MIGHT have been a
technique of cinematography for a couple of DECADES before it was used in
anime, either? Has it occurred to you that you just MIGHT be a fanboy
who's willing to take ANYTHING as evidence to prove what you just want to
believe? "Disney doesn't pan; if they panned like anime, they'd be good,
but they don't, so they're not!" "Disney does pan." "Oh. Well, see, if
they had INVENTED panning, instead of just copying it from Holy Anime,
which INVENTED panning..." "Anime didn't invent panning." "Oh. Well,
you see..."
>Anime still does it better.......HA!
>
>Matt
-jc
--
! -jc IS feld...@netcom.com !
! "'Asa Nisi Masa!' How strange! But what does it mean?" !
! *** Fight spam! Sign up at http://www.cauce.org/ ! *** !
Brian E. Angliss
In article <slrn676kk8...@godzilla.cs.nwu.edu>,
Bryan Quinn <bqu...@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu> wrote:
>
>Well, I've never liked Akira much. I think its a horrible movie because it
>attempts to do far too much in its viewing period. It also reminds me of
>Stanley Kubrick's 2001: Great cinematics, destroyed plot.
Fraid I disagree. Having never seen the Akira manga, though, I can't know
how much was left out by jamming it into a movie, but I love both movies.
>I think this comparison is quite apt. Both productions sought to dislpay
>fantastic and meaningful stories. Some of the scenes in 2001 left me
>twitching in awe after seeing them. Likewise with Akira. Overall though,
>both movies did, in my opinion, a very poor job of communicating the story
>and theme to viewers not already aware of what is going on.
FYI, Arthur C. Clarke wrote 2001, the book, from the screenplay that he
and Stanly Kubrick wrote for the movie, not the other way around.
I have never read 2001, but I have never really had too much trouble
following the movie. Sure, I've seen it about 10 times now, and I keep
getting more and more out of it, but it's not that hard to follow, IMO.
>Readers of 2001 can enjoy the movie. They know what is going on. The
>cinematics beautifully illustrate the events of the book, but its too much
>all at once.
Actually, the book explains events of the movie, rather than the movie
illustrating the events of the book. It's an important distinction.
> Akira animates the manga's storyline, but the overall theme
>and plot suffers from extraordinary compression. It becomes extremely
>difficult to follow whats going on. Both movies elicit thinking from the
>audience, but they confuse most people more than a good movie should.
I think that Akira does confuse the viewer, yes. But that's what keeps me
coming back for more, and more, and more. After about 5 viewings, I think
I've got most of the plot down, but considering I've never read the manga,
I could be wrong.
>As for Akira being an Anime introduction for many people, I think you are
>right. However, I think Akira has done more to repel potential fans than
>attract them. I've talked to several people who do not like Anime. They
>often remember Akira and not liking it. People usually react much more
>positively to Miyazaki films. They enjoy them more.
Hmmm... I've never seen a Miyazaki film, actually. Maybe I'd react
better to them too. There's probably other films which could attract new
fans. I'm about to try attracting a new fan with the Macross Plus movie,
actually.
Brian
Peter Yao
In article <19971120003...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dami...@aol.com (DamienRoc) wrote:
[...]
> Speaking as a viewer, sometimes I want to watch something like Fushigi
Yuugi or
> EVA, but sometimes SD Gundam is all my attention span can handle. Short plot
> shows have a strength because they are "always watchable" (by format, not
> content) long plot shows don't always have this luxury.
Just out of curiosity, what anime would you consider short plot based (like
the Simpsons)? Aside from the SD Gundam you mentioned (I haven't seen it,
so I'll take your word for it), I would think that Uresei Yatsura would be
a Simpson-ish equivalent. Also there is Sailor Moon and Dragonball (I
haven't seen Dragonball though), but would you put them in the same
category?
--
The wise make proverbs and fools repeat them.
-- Isaac D'Israeli
Ru Igarashi
Brian E. Angliss (ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
>In article <slrn676kk8...@godzilla.cs.nwu.edu>,
>Bryan Quinn <bqu...@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Well, I've never liked Akira much. I think its a horrible movie because it
>>attempts to do far too much in its viewing period. It also reminds me of
>>Stanley Kubrick's 2001: Great cinematics, destroyed plot.
>
>Fraid I disagree. Having never seen the Akira manga, though, I can't know
>how much was left out by jamming it into a movie, but I love both movies.
I have to disagree with the disagreement. I have never seen the manga,
and when I watched Akira on the big screen I didn't know it was based on
the manga. Even so, I felt exactly that "it attempts to do far too much
in its viewing period." My impression was "that HAD to be a super
compressed version of some book". It wasn't that there was much dropped
as there was way too much "in your face" detail crammed in (as Bryan said
"to do TOO much"). That detracted from Akira substantially.
>>I think this comparison is quite apt. Both productions sought to dislpay
>>fantastic and meaningful stories. Some of the scenes in 2001 left me
>>twitching in awe after seeing them. Likewise with Akira. Overall though,
>>both movies did, in my opinion, a very poor job of communicating the story
>>and theme to viewers not already aware of what is going on.
>
>FYI, Arthur C. Clarke wrote 2001, the book, from the screenplay that he
>and Stanly Kubrick wrote for the movie, not the other way around.
>
>I have never read 2001, but I have never really had too much trouble
>following the movie. Sure, I've seen it about 10 times now, and I keep
>getting more and more out of it, but it's not that hard to follow, IMO.
I agree here. I hadn't read the book until long after I saw the movie,
and I had no problem following 2001. I felt it was paced well also,
contrary to how I felt about Akira's pacing.
[snip]
>Hmmm... I've never seen a Miyazaki film, actually. Maybe I'd react
>better to them too. There's probably other films which could attract new
>fans. I'm about to try attracting a new fan with the Macross Plus movie,
>actually.
Hmm. I hated Macross Plus. I hated the way the story of the threesome
was handled. The rest was fine, but that particular thread was so bad
that it distracted from the other more intriguing plots.
ru
Kenneth B. Miller
Peter Yao <yao19....@idt.net> wrote in article
<yao19.nospam-ya02408...@news.idt.net>...
> In article <19971120003...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> dami...@aol.com (DamienRoc) wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Speaking as a viewer, sometimes I want to watch something like Fushigi
> Yuugi or
> > EVA, but sometimes SD Gundam is all my attention span can handle.
Short plot
> > shows have a strength because they are "always watchable" (by format,
not
> > content) long plot shows don't always have this luxury.
>
> Just out of curiosity, what anime would you consider short plot based
(like
> the Simpsons)? Aside from the SD Gundam you mentioned (I haven't seen it,
> so I'll take your word for it), I would think that Uresei Yatsura would
be
> a Simpson-ish equivalent. Also there is Sailor Moon and Dragonball (I
UY is somewhat episodic, but it does have overall character development.
Also, the cast does tend to grow exponentially.
Brian E. Angliss
In article <65007d$i53$1...@tribune.usask.ca>,
Ru Igarashi <r...@skatter.usask.ca> wrote:
>
>I have to disagree with the disagreement. I have never seen the manga,
>and when I watched Akira on the big screen I didn't know it was based on
>the manga. Even so, I felt exactly that "it attempts to do far too much
>in its viewing period." My impression was "that HAD to be a super
>compressed version of some book". It wasn't that there was much dropped
>as there was way too much "in your face" detail crammed in (as Bryan said
>"to do TOO much"). That detracted from Akira substantially.
I didn't think so. I agree that there's a hell of a lot of stuff there,
but I've never felt that it tried to jam too much. I always got the feel
from Akira that it was trying to push the envelope in pace, information
overload, animation, music, etc. Kind of like how Tetsuo - The Iron Man
does with pushing the viewer into information overload and numbness in
short order. And there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the
director of Tetsuo - The Iron Man had seen Akira and used some of the
ideas from the anime. There are just WAY too many similarities.
>Hmm. I hated Macross Plus. I hated the way the story of the threesome
>was handled. The rest was fine, but that particular thread was so bad
>that it distracted from the other more intriguing plots.
Wow. I feel that Macross Plus is one of the best anime I've ever seen,
and it's mostly because of the interaction between the three main
characters. The OVAs have a lot more going on on the other plots, while
the movie was focused on those three characters. Both have thier
strengths, and I think both are excellent.
Brian
DamienRoc
I would say that it depends on what the intended goal is... both of the
producers of the show, and the viewers. For the producers, if they are looking
for characterization, then a long plot is better, OTOH, if they want to "hook"
anyone from the first viewing, no matter when it might be, a short plot is
better.
Speaking as a viewer, sometimes I want to watch something like Fushigi Yuugi or
EVA, but sometimes SD Gundam is all my attention span can handle. Short plot
shows have a strength because they are "always watchable" (by format, not
content) long plot shows don't always have this luxury.
Even so, it is, as I said before, entirely subjective.
Brian E. Angliss
In article <slrn677go6...@godzilla.cs.nwu.edu>,
Bryan Quinn <bqu...@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu> wrote:
>Now if someone did a manga (!) version of 2001...
Actually, I'm not sure I'd like that.... I have my own vision of 2001, and
I'm not sure that I'd like the vision of the creator of the manga....
Kinda like how I don't generally enjoy the miniseries or movies made from
my favorite books.
>I rewatch Akira every now and then for the same reason. Still, I think
>the viewer needs to bring some level of fascination with its theme for
>that type of movie to really work its magic. Maybe if I could see a
>subtitled version...
True. I have more than a passing interest in cyberpunk(part of Akira) and
ESP/psionic powers(big part of Akira), so that probably keeps me coming
back for more.
>Whoa... stop reading news and go see one!
I don't have enough Japanese language background yet to watch it
untranslated, and I'm not a fan of fansubs, so the only one I could watch
is Totoro. And I'm not that interested in watching it at this point. I'm
very much looking forward to Mononoke Hime, however.
> As far as attracting fans with
>Macross Plus, I've had good results with Sci-Fi fans. I showed it to a
>group of Computer Science folk and they really enjoyed it. Its all about
>knowing your audience though. For some people, Akira will be a definite
>draw. I think every serious anime fan will find a lot to appreciate in
>Akira even if its not their #1 film.
Hmmmm... Maybe something like Maison Ikkoku, then.... I'm not sure how
much the person I'm showing it to enjoys SF....
>However, if I wanted to introduce anime to a die-hard fantasy and Tolkien
>fan, I would show Lodoss Wars as an introduction. For people who can't
>stop talking about Robotech, the Macross TV episodes or original movie are
>good choices.
Oh, yeah. Hard-core fantasy folk get Lodoss, no doubt about it. Someone
who really likes Simpsons might get UY, after the first 20 episodes or so,
that is.
Of course, I could always just show them Eva or El-Hazard, which are two
of my favorites(then again, so are Lodoss and Mac+, and UY too).
Brian
Doug Jacobs
In rec.arts.anime.misc Emiko's Agent <gen...@NOSPAMmaison-otaku.net> wrote:
> I wonder if anyone in Hollywood has thought about doing a RL version of
> some anime. After seeing Starship Troopers, it looks like anything can
> be done, like Macross (missles and all). I doubt they would though, but
> what about something like Mechwarrior? I would have thought FASA would
> follow the other vid games into the theatre market (like Doom, Mortal
> Kombat, and others). Constructing mechs via CG and incorperating them
> into RL settings shouldn't be a problem anymore, and technology has
> advanced far enough to make them look realistic.
Hollywood did try to do a mech-based movie - Robot Jox. Never heard of it?
Good. It's a B*A*D movie (although the book wasn't bad...taking elements
from Gundam)
Besides, looking at Starship Troopers, if they tried to do a RL version
of MechWarrior, they'd probably get rid of the mecha again (can't cover
up the faces of the pilots!) or turn them into autonomous robots that
the actors/actresses would control via over-sized RC control boxes ;)
(hmm...maybe they could do RL Giant Robo with some pretty-boy clinging
to the side of Robo's head for dear life ;)
Scopedog
even one of the 30+ novels you'd see there is an epic story to be played
out, full of complicated and intruiging characters. Me, I've read all
but 4 of those 30+(only because those 4 were before my time, but they're
going to be reprinted), and I can imagine a sweeping movie series that
never centers on mecha combat more than the Patlabor movies. In any
case, there's just too much going on, politically, for an action movie
formula to work in the Battletech universe. If they made it an action
movie, it would kill any chance of another mainstream mecha movie like
Robot Jox did for a while. Now that I think about it, Starship
Troopers, as a philosophical work, shouldn't really need mecha either,
except Paul Verhoeven took the story way too far in the wrong
direction(less plot, less mecha, more action rather than more plot, more
philosophy, less action). I guess it's possible that Battletech may be
just as impossible as Starship Troopers to translate on to the movie
screen without sacrificing it's most important story elements. Bummer.
Arnold Kim
Emiko's Agent wrote:
>
> I wonder if anyone in Hollywood has thought about doing a RL version of
> some anime. After seeing Starship Troopers, it looks like anything can
> be done, like Macross (missles and all). I doubt they would though, but
> what about something like Mechwarrior? I would have thought FASA would
> follow the other vid games into the theatre market (like Doom, Mortal
> Kombat, and others). Constructing mechs via CG and incorperating them
> into RL settings shouldn't be a problem anymore, and technology has
> advanced far enough to make them look realistic.
This doesn't count as Mecha really, but there are a couple of rather atrocious
productions Fist of the North Star and The Guyver made for cable TV...
Arnold Kim
OK, Guyver's not _that_ bad...
DamienRoc
>> Besides, looking at Starship Troopers, if they tried to do a RL version
>> of MechWarrior, they'd probably get rid of the mecha again (can't cover
>> up the faces of the pilots!) or turn them into autonomous robots that
>> the actors/actresses would control via over-sized RC control boxes ;)
>A well-made Battletech movie doesn't need mecha. If you've ever read
>even one of the 30+ novels you'd see there is an epic story to be played
>out, full of complicated and intruiging characters. Me, I've read all
>but 4 of those 30+(only because those 4 were before my time, but they're
>going to be reprinted), and I can imagine a sweeping movie series that
The Warrior Trilogy and The Sword and the Dagger, right?
>never centers on mecha combat more than the Patlabor movies. In any
>case, there's just too much going on, politically, for an action movie
>formula to work in the Battletech universe. If they made it an action
>movie, it would kill any chance of another mainstream mecha movie like
>Robot Jox did for a while. Now that I think about it, Starship
>Troopers, as a philosophical work, shouldn't really need mecha either,
>except Paul Verhoeven took the story way too far in the wrong
>direction(less plot, less mecha, more action rather than more plot, more
>philosophy, less action). I guess it's possible that Battletech may be
>just as impossible as Starship Troopers to translate on to the movie
>screen without sacrificing it's most important story elements. Bummer.
I've actually talked with Mike Stackpole via email about casting for a
BattleTech movie (we had a rather long running list, which I've lost, now.)
In a sense, I agree with you. The Mech battles aren't the story, that's true.
However, they ARE necessarry. Even the most political of Mike's novels
(Assumption of Risk, I think) has a few Mech battles, because that's what
BattleTech was originally about. They would have to be in there, otherwise,
it's just a very political sci-fi movie, not BTech.
Now then, you are correct, if they aimed for an action movie, it would kill it.
I, personally, wouldn't trust anyone besides Mike (or some very hard core BTech
fan) to write the script, and I would be very worried about what the producers
would see... The BTech Cartoon was abyssmally bad, it hardly relates to the
universe.
If they could get it running (and keep a following to the novels) it would be
neat to see what they'd do with the Mechs. I'd suggest contracting some part
out to a Japanese Anime studio, but give them a huge budget and loads of CG
equipment to work with. It could blow away some of those Macross Plus
sequences.
ahil...@sallie.wellesley.edu
"Rommel Calderon" wrote:
I have never seen a Miyazaki film, but I hear they're incredible. Let's
just hope that Disney doesn't botch up Mononoke Hime. I found that bit of
news rather disturbing. Anime shouldn't be touched by Disney, they're bound
to fuck it up. Anyone remember the Mighty Orbots?
I remember the Mighty Orbots. Fondly. (Although I remember telling my
friend's mother that Star Blazers was a million times better than Mighty
Orbots at the time.)
Could you elaborate on how Disney fucked up the Mighty Orbots? Does
your statement have something to do with the fact that very few episodes were
made? I always thought it was DIC, not Disney, who did Mighty Orbots (but I
certainly could be wrong), and that Mighty Orbots was one of those cartoons
conceptually created by a non-Japanese company (DIC or Disney or whoever) and
then farmed out to Japan to have the animation done, as opposed to something
first created and aired in Japan and later dubbed into English like Star
Blazers and Robotech.
I'm not trying to criticize your statement, I'm just admitting my
ignorance on the matter and asking for clarification.
Sumire
Rommel Calderon
True, that Akira is still considered one of the best and sits on MANY lists
as a must-see or best-buy. BUT, again I would have to stress that Akira
holds on to too narrow of an audience. Mac+'s similarity to Top Gun, along
with that Robotech nostalgia factor, gives it a better chance of succeeding
in theaters. Its music is also a good way of exposing the film becuase much
of it is danceable! Can you honestly tell me you weren't bobbing your head
to "Pulse" the first time you heard it?
Ru Igarashi wrote: "I hated Macross Plus. I hated the way the story of the
threesome was handled. The rest was fine, but that particular thread was so
bad that it distracted from the other more intriguing plots." -- Interesting
view there concerning your dislike for the relationship thread. I thought
the thread between Isamu, Guld, and Myung was great. Without it, there
wouldn't be much of a movie! I think that's where the plot truly lies. The
other parts of the story was just extra ingredients. I've shown a lot of
people Macross Plus and the responses have always been better than good.
That's where my idea for using Macross
Plus-as-an-anime-intro-into-mainstream stemmed from. :)
I would have to agree -- concerning Macross Plus -- that the OAV's had a lot
more going for them, but the best way to introduce Anime to the mainstream
is theaters, and Mac+ movie is best suited for that.
Brian Angliss wrote: "I'm about to try attracting a new fan with the
Macross Plus movie, actually." -- Tell me how it goes.
I have never seen a Miyazaki film, but I hear they're incredible. Let's
just hope that Disney doesn't botch up Mononoke Hime. I found that bit of
news rather disturbing. Anime shouldn't be touched by Disney, they're bound
to fuck it up. Anyone remember the Mighty Orbots?
The following are the instructions to creating an Anime fan:
I'd use OAV's first. First, Macross Plus(for the Robotech factor, generally
everyone's first anime experience), El-Hazard(fantasy adventure and that
fuzzy felling ending), and Battle Angel Alita(action). Then, I'd add a dash
of the classics, like Akira and Urotsikodoji, then Ghost in the Shell....
Okay, so maybe not Urotsikodoji. Following that, I'd use TV shows. I'd
sprinkle in some comedy, so I'd get 'em with Ranma1/2(The lightheartedness
and romance seem to attract the girls). Then, I'd marinate them with The
Vision of Escaflowne, followed by Neon Genesis Evangelion. Now, cook as
desired for several minutes, and you'll have an anime fan. If done
correctly, you won't have an Otaku.
I think I've given my $'s worth.
RooC
Ru Igarashi
Rommel Calderon (ro...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>Ru Igarashi wrote: "I hated Macross Plus. I hated the way the story of the
>threesome was handled. The rest was fine, but that particular thread was so
>bad that it distracted from the other more intriguing plots." -- Interesting
>view there concerning your dislike for the relationship thread. I thought
>the thread between Isamu, Guld, and Myung was great. Without it, there
>wouldn't be much of a movie! I think that's where the plot truly lies.
I didn't say the threesome plot shouldn't have been in it. I said I didn't
like the way it was handled (written). It COULD have been a good story
(better than the other plots) but with that messed up, the other plots
just couldn't carry the show. That's why I never recommend Macross Plus.
[snip]
>I'd use OAV's first. First, Macross Plus(for the Robotech factor, generally
>everyone's first anime experience),
Historically, perhaps, but that doesn't have to apply in general. I know
that the Robotech factor has been a hinderance in many cases for me.
Actually, I don't want to even try Robotech myself, despite a rather
good availability of it locally. The other thing to consider is who
it is you want to turn into an anime fan. An SF (Speculative Fiction)
enthusiast would probably be more easily "turned" by the described recipe.
However, there is a much larger group that could be "turned" if you go
to less speculative anime. That's one reason Ranma has a rabid following
(and I attest to my attachment with the first season TV episodes).
That's also why folks are seriously crossing their fingers on the
Disney-Ghibli releases' success/breakthrough next year.
>El-Hazard(fantasy adventure and that
>fuzzy felling ending), and Battle Angel Alita(action).
I've had pretty good reception with a Patlabor/Wings of Honneamise - Gunnm -
Sol Bianca combination. I also would not tout Gunnm as an action film.
The responses I get are for its dramatic quality. Sol Bianca, now THAT
is an action film (that escape sequence is a heck of a lot of fun).
[snip]
>If done correctly, you won't have an Otaku.
Amen
ru
Philip Yff
Possibility of MINOR SPOILERS in this article.
In article <656f9p$la7$1...@tribune.usask.ca>, r...@skatter.usask.ca says...
>Rommel Calderon (ro...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>>Ru Igarashi wrote: "I hated Macross Plus. I hated the way the story of the
>>threesome was handled. The rest was fine, but that particular thread was so
>>bad that it distracted from the other more intriguing plots." -- Interesting
>>view there concerning your dislike for the relationship thread. I thought
>>the thread between Isamu, Guld, and Myung was great. Without it, there
>>wouldn't be much of a movie! I think that's where the plot truly lies.
>I didn't say the threesome plot shouldn't have been in it. I said I didn't
>like the way it was handled (written). It COULD have been a good story
>(better than the other plots) but with that messed up, the other plots
>just couldn't carry the show. That's why I never recommend Macross Plus.
I liked the way the threesome was handled. I liked the thematic
implications and the interaction between the characters. I liked the
role that Sharon Apple played and the symbolism implied by the
Planet Eden--the loss of innocence and subsequent redemption.
[Note: The following discussion is based more on the OAV than the
movie. The movie is consistent with the discussion and Guld's
denouement is more spectacular in the movie.]
Myung, Guld, and Isamu lived an idyllic innocent existence. Innocence
was shattered, and seven (a significant number in religion and mythology)
years later there is a reunion to resolve the turmoil created by the
intrusion of evil in paradise. Isamu, Myung, and Guld much each face
their own demons. Myung becomes whole again, symbolized by her being able
to sing the simple song of innocence. Isamu does so by choosing the real
Myung over Sharon who is committed to satisfying Isamu's dreams as a
reckless pilot. Remember, it was the reckless pilot in Isamu that
wrecked Guld's plane and started the downward cycle. Guld does so by
destroying the ghost ship. His comment when he leaves to do so is
verysignificant and is inaccurately translated in the sub (I haven't
seen the dub of this episode). He says, "Saki ni itte iru ze" "
[Excuse me] for going on ahead. Isamu had accuse him of always tagging
along. At the crucial time it is Guld who takes the lead.
(Language note: 'saki ni' means 'on ahead'. In this context, there
is an implied apology).
Sharon is less a villain than she is a symbol of the discord created
between the three young people. To make amends for the past, each
of the three must renounce her. (Remember, it was Sharon controlling
the ghost plane that Guld attacked.
[snip]
Rommel Calderon
To my understanding, the Mighty Orbots was bought out by Disney, who saw it
as a threat to their shows, then cancelled it.
:
:I remember the Mighty Orbots. Fondly. (Although I remember telling my
Scopedog
DamienRoc wrote:
>
> >> Besides, looking at Starship Troopers, if they tried to do a RL version
> >> of MechWarrior, they'd probably get rid of the mecha again (can't cover
> >> up the faces of the pilots!) or turn them into autonomous robots that
> >> the actors/actresses would control via over-sized RC control boxes ;)
>
> >A well-made Battletech movie doesn't need mecha. If you've ever read
> >even one of the 30+ novels you'd see there is an epic story to be played
> >out, full of complicated and intruiging characters. Me, I've read all
> >but 4 of those 30+(only because those 4 were before my time, but they're
> >going to be reprinted), and I can imagine a sweeping movie series that
>
> The Warrior Trilogy and The Sword and the Dagger, right?
> >never centers on mecha combat more than the Patlabor movies. In any
> >case, there's just too much going on, politically, for an action movie
> >formula to work in the Battletech universe. If they made it an action
> >movie, it would kill any chance of another mainstream mecha movie like
> >Robot Jox did for a while. Now that I think about it, Starship
> >Troopers, as a philosophical work, shouldn't really need mecha either,
> >except Paul Verhoeven took the story way too far in the wrong
> >direction(less plot, less mecha, more action rather than more plot, more
> >philosophy, less action). I guess it's possible that Battletech may be
> >just as impossible as Starship Troopers to translate on to the movie
> >screen without sacrificing it's most important story elements. Bummer.
>
> I've actually talked with Mike Stackpole via email about casting for a
> BattleTech movie (we had a rather long running list, which I've lost, now.)
Do a dejanews search on rec.games.mecha for 'battletech cast' or
something along those lines. That thread comes up every once in a
while, in fact, it's in danger of coming up again, at the moment.
> In a sense, I agree with you. The Mech battles aren't the story, that's true.
> However, they ARE necessarry. Even the most political of Mike's novels
> (Assumption of Risk, I think) has a few Mech battles, because that's what
> BattleTech was originally about. They would have to be in there,
otherwise,
> it's just a very political sci-fi movie, not BTech.
Maybe the first Battletech movie SHOULD be a complex political saga.
That might create a following among people who normally wouldn't even
watch sci-fi. I would love to see a Battletech movie, with or without
mecha, get nominated for an Academy award. Maybe even a win . :)
> Now then, you are correct, if they aimed for an action movie, it would kill it.
> I, personally, wouldn't trust anyone besides Mike (or some very hard core BTech
Robert Thurston wrote the Robot Jox adaption, maybe he could go the
other way, too.
> fan) to write the script, and I would be very worried about what the producers
> would see... The BTech Cartoon was abyssmally bad, it hardly relates to the
> universe.
Yup.
> If they could get it running (and keep a following to the novels) it would be
> neat to see what they'd do with the Mechs. I'd suggest contracting some part
> out to a Japanese Anime studio, but give them a huge budget and loads of CG
> equipment to work with. It could blow away some of those Macross Plus
> sequences.
Except for the weapons, the opening to Mechwarrior 2 was nice. I can
imagine a movie battle sequence along those lines. Actually, I don't
think mecha is any sort of problem holding a Battletech movie back, it's
plot. Nobody(Battletech fans and hopefully FASA) wants another Somerset
Strikers. Getting a mature live-action mecha movie made is going to be
very difficult(Starship Troopers should have been that, though).
Antaeus Feldspar
In article <656be7$7...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Rommel Calderon <ro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
>I have never seen a Miyazaki film, but I hear they're incredible. Let's
>just hope that Disney doesn't botch up Mononoke Hime. I found that bit of
>news rather disturbing. Anime shouldn't be touched by Disney, they're bound
>to fuck it up. Anyone remember the Mighty Orbots?
Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
decades before "The Gummi Bears," and therefore didn't do anything to
"The Mighty Orbots?"
Funny, Rommel, you sounded like you were actually reasonable
until this paragraph.
Arnold Kim
Rommel Calderon wrote:
> I have never seen a Miyazaki film, but I hear they're incredible. Let's
> just hope that Disney doesn't botch up Mononoke Hime. I found that bit of
> news rather disturbing. Anime shouldn't be touched by Disney, they're bound
> to fuck it up. Anyone remember the Mighty Orbots?
I think the rest of the ng was tired of explaining this, but Disney _cannot_
edit MH at _all_. They can't add footage to it either. All they can do is dub
it, and dumbing down the language in the dub would be pointless since due
to the graphic violence it would still receive a PG-13 anyway.
Arnold Kim
tired of explaining this
Rommel Calderon
My apologies for the misinformation. I assumed my source was reliable(since
this news was rather new to myself). But please, don't let that ruin my
credibility. And apologies again for my ignorance on what Disney can and
cannot do to MH. I have somewhat of a grudge against Disney, being an
aspiring animatormyself, I know of how Disney treats their subordinates and
anyone who tries to step into their territory. Ask 20th Century Fox that.
Disney intentionally released Little Mermaid, Flubber, and Hercules around
Anastasia(which was a good movie by the way).
RooC
Antaeus Feldspar wrote in message ...
: Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
Antaeus Feldspar
In article <65b49e$k...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
Rommel Calderon <ro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>My apologies for the misinformation. I assumed my source was reliable(since
>this news was rather new to myself). But please, don't let that ruin my
>credibility. And apologies again for my ignorance on what Disney can and
>cannot do to MH. I have somewhat of a grudge against Disney, being an
>aspiring animatormyself, I know of how Disney treats their subordinates and
>anyone who tries to step into their territory. Ask 20th Century Fox that.
>Disney intentionally released Little Mermaid, Flubber, and Hercules around
>Anastasia(which was a good movie by the way).
>
>RooC
I can understand having bad feelings about Disney based on how
they treat their personnel (though I have no information about that, not
*even* rumors.
However, they are only re-releasing LM for two weeks and three
weekends. If they were doing so solely to damage Anastasia, it's hard to
believe why they'd 'pull their punch' like that. As for timing "Flubber"
to compete with Anastasia, I would never have identified a live-action
movie as an animated movie's biggest competition. And I've seen nothing
about Hercules being *re-released,* so I hope you're not meaning that
releasing a movie in the summer of a particular year is an unfair attack
on a movie coming out in November of that year. By that kind of logic,
'playing fair' would mean that only four animated movies, at most, could
come out in any given year.
I'm not saying that Disney isn't using their deep pockets to
achieve extremely competitive theatre play and extraordinary promotion.
What I *am* saying, however, is that THAT'S FAIR. THAT'S BUSINESS.
It's called "competition," and Fox is engaged in it just as fiercely as
anyone else.
>
>Antaeus Feldspar wrote in message ...
>
>: Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
>:decades before "The Gummi Bears," and therefore didn't do anything to
>:"The Mighty Orbots?"
>: Funny, Rommel, you sounded like you were actually reasonable
>:until this paragraph.
>:--
>
>
>
Rommel Calderon
I read in Cinescape(I believe, or was it Entertainment Weekly?), that
Hercules is set for a release this December. The point I'm trying to make
here is that, yes it is a capitalist nation and that competition is fair,
but Disney is trying to bully Fox by releasing several family films around
it, hence hurting their chances for profit. Its just plain mean. I know,
it sounds childish, but like I said, I do hold a grudge against Disney(not
that I won't watch their movies, hell, I love their movies, I just won't
work for them).
Antaeus Feldspar wrote in message ...
:In article <65b49e$k...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
DamienRoc
>> The Warrior Trilogy and The Sword and the Dagger, right?
>Yup.
The Warrior Trilogy is good, but Mike's later stuff is a lot better (it has the
feel of a "first writing" even tho it wasn't.)
The Sword and the Dagger was intriguing, but had some rather major problems. I
don't think they'll reprint it because there's a few things in it that
contradict the "Laws" of BattleTech.
>> I've actually talked with Mike Stackpole via email about casting for a
>> BattleTech movie (we had a rather long running list, which I've lost, now.)
>Do a dejanews search on rec.games.mecha for 'battletech cast' or
>something along those lines. That thread comes up every once in a
>while, in fact, it's in danger of coming up again, at the moment.
Lessee if I can remember a few:
Natasha Kerensky - Susan Sarandon
Nelson Geist (from Natural Selection) - Harrison Ford
Ulric Kerensky - Sean Connery
Anastasius Focht - Max Von Sidow
There were a LOT more. We covered a huge number of characters, but those are
the only ones I can remember.
>> In a sense, I agree with you. The Mech battles aren't the story, that's
true.
>> However, they ARE necessarry. Even the most political of Mike's novels
>> (Assumption of Risk, I think) has a few Mech battles, because that's what
>> BattleTech was originally about. They would have to be in there,
>otherwise,
>> it's just a very political sci-fi movie, not BTech.
>Maybe the first Battletech movie SHOULD be a complex political saga.
>That might create a following among people who normally wouldn't even
>watch sci-fi. I would love to see a Battletech movie, with or without
>mecha, get nominated for an Academy award. Maybe even a win . :)
Unlikely. Good as the universe may be, because of constraints that exist, it's
never going to be a storehouse for AWESOMEly great writing (as regarded by
experts.) Also, the Academy tends to look down on sci-fi movies as "effect"
movies.
What would be better would be to make the effect movie, but really surprise
people with the great political intricacies. To be extremely different, do
something that hasn't been covered in the novels yet: the War of '39.
>Robert Thurston wrote the Robot Jox adaption, maybe he could go the
>other way, too.
I didn't like his first trilogy (the only 3 BTech novels I don't own) but his
more recent BTech novels are pretty good.
>>The BTech Cartoon was abyssmally bad, it hardly relates to the
>> universe.
>Yup.
Pity that the toys suck, too.
>> If they could get it running (and keep a following to the novels) it would
be
>> neat to see what they'd do with the Mechs. I'd suggest contracting some part
>> out to a Japanese Anime studio, but give them a huge budget and loads of CG
>> equipment to work with. It could blow away some of those Macross Plus
>> sequences.
>Except for the weapons, the opening to Mechwarrior 2 was nice. I can
Yeah. I kinda cringed at how inconsistent it was with the game... and itself.
Also, the way that one MechWarrior "freaked out" and started using contractions
bugged me... Clanners don't do that.
>imagine a movie battle sequence along those lines. Actually, I don't
>think mecha is any sort of problem holding a Battletech movie back, it's
>plot. Nobody(Battletech fans and hopefully FASA) wants another Somerset
>Strikers. Getting a mature live-action mecha movie made is going to be
>very difficult(Starship Troopers should have been that, though).
True, maybe in a couple of years.
However, I have heard rumors about a BTech movie... Rumored release dates as
early as next summer, IIRC.
To do it right:
Get Mike Stackpole to do the script.
Get an Anime studio to work with ILM for Mech designs and CG sequences.
Question: which studio would be best for t
Get a load of fan support.
and, most important...
Don't let the producers screw with it!!!
Tank
On 17 Nov 1997 02:39:58 -0800, Philip Yff <yf...@wizard.net> wrote:
>In article <64gq59$f...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, "Matt says...
>
>[snip]
>
>>Simpsons is a funny series (of course it's not very good recently....getting
>>TOO crazy......) but of course we can't seem to make any serious,
>>deep-thought type series.
>
>Simpsons, even today, has a lot of 'deep-thought' behind it. The
>animation provides an excellent medium where high satire can be used
>to good effect to take issue with sacred cows.
>
>Mata ato de,
>
>Phil Yff
Now you're beginning to sound like the student of anime that you are
<bg>, but I concur. Smithers is a prime example.
__<TANK>===--- ©
....<O_o_o_o_O>.....
DamienRoc
>>I have never seen a Miyazaki film, but I hear they're incredible. Let's
>>just hope that Disney doesn't botch up Mononoke Hime. I found that bit of
>>news rather disturbing. Anime shouldn't be touched by Disney, they're bound
>>to fuck it up. Anyone remember the Mighty Orbots?
> Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
>decades before "The Gummi Bears," and therefore didn't do anything to
>"The Mighty Orbots?"
I thought their first series was the Wuzzles.
> Funny, Rommel, you sounded like you were actually reasonable
>until this paragraph.
True. Didn't we already go through this with ryb?
DamienRoc
>I read in Cinescape(I believe, or was it Entertainment Weekly?), that
>Hercules is set for a release this December. The point I'm trying to make
>here is that, yes it is a capitalist nation and that competition is fair,
>but Disney is trying to bully Fox by releasing several family films around
>it, hence hurting their chances for profit. Its just plain mean. I know,
>it sounds childish, but like I said, I do hold a grudge against Disney(not
>that I won't watch their movies, hell, I love their movies, I just won't
>work for them).
Rommel, that goes on in every aspect of the entertainment industry. When some
of the indie comic companies started having successful titles, what did Marvel
do? Start releasing a lot of mini-series showcasing popular characters.
Disney isn't playing mean. They're playing by the rules. Fox (and Dreamworks
and Warner) have their sights set on Disney, and Disney is just trying to
protect its standing. Nothing more, nothing less.
Morals and ethics don't exist much in business... Just laws and money.
DamienRoc
>>My apologies for the misinformation. I assumed my source was reliable(since
>>this news was rather new to myself). But please, don't let that ruin my
>>credibility. And apologies again for my ignorance on what Disney can and
>>cannot do to MH. I have somewhat of a grudge against Disney, being an
>>aspiring animatormyself, I know of how Disney treats their subordinates and
>>anyone who tries to step into their territory. Ask 20th Century Fox that.
>>Disney intentionally released Little Mermaid, Flubber, and Hercules around
>>Anastasia(which was a good movie by the way).
>
>>RooC
> I can understand having bad feelings about Disney based on how
>they treat their personnel (though I have no information about that, not
>*even* rumors.
Article in Entertainment weekly said that Disney pays its animator more than
any other studio... Sometimes as much as 50% more, IIRC.
> However, they are only re-releasing LM for two weeks and three
>weekends. If they were doing so solely to damage Anastasia, it's hard to
>believe why they'd 'pull their punch' like that. As for timing "Flubber"
>to compete with Anastasia, I would never have identified a live-action
>movie as an animated movie's biggest competition. And I've seen nothing
>about Hercules being *re-released,* so I hope you're not meaning that
>releasing a movie in the summer of a particular year is an unfair attack
>on a movie coming out in November of that year. By that kind of logic,
>'playing fair' would mean that only four animated movies, at most, could
>come out in any given year.
> I'm not saying that Disney isn't using their deep pockets to
>achieve extremely competitive theatre play and extraordinary promotion.
>What I *am* saying, however, is that THAT'S FAIR. THAT'S BUSINESS.
>It's called "competition," and Fox is engaged in it just as fiercely as
>anyone else.
If not more so. Anastasia was devised with the main intention of toppling
Disney from the head of the heap. Since it's logical to assume that an increase
in profits for one company mean a decrease in profits for another, Disney isn't
going to take to that kindly. They have every right to try and keep the other
companies down and, if their product is better (as regarded by the movie-going
public) then they should succeed.
>
>>Antaeus Feldspar wrote in message ...
>
>>: Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
>>:decades before "The Gummi Bears," and therefore didn't do anything to
Wasn't The Wuzzles before that?
>>:"The Mighty Orbots?"
>>: Funny, Rommel, you sounded like you were actually reasonable
>>:until this paragraph.
Damien Roc
Alexander Jaffe
> Disney isn't playing mean. They're playing by the rules. Fox (and
Dreamworks
> and Warner) have their sights set on Disney, and Disney is just trying to
> protect its standing. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> Morals and ethics don't exist much in business... Just laws and money.
Of course they play by the rules.. They write the rules.
Disney is alot of things. Its sometimes good, sometimes bad,
It's both a symbol of morality and a bastion of shady dealings.
But it is BIG. and anything that large is bound to do alot of damage
everywhere it goes.
As for Miazaki, another thing Disney is is RICH.
They've made a commitment to a releace, and will hopefully do as nice a job
of voicecasting as they have done in the past. remember this is the same
company that brought us CHASEING AMY. They at least know good filmin when
they see it...
Taliesin
WILLIAM
Antaeus Feldspar <feld...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<feldsparE...@netcom.com>...
> Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
> decades before "The Gummi Bears,"
Disney did the series "The Wuzzles" a year or two before Gummi Bears
the theme song:
"here in the land of wuzz their having twice the fun,
cause every single thing is two in one....."
Au Revoir,
Will
DamienRoc
>> Anyone remember that Disney didn't do any animated series for
>> decades before "The Gummi Bears,"
>Disney did the series "The Wuzzles" a year or two before Gummi Bears
>the theme song:
>"here in the land of wuzz their having twice the fun,
>cause every single thing is two in one....."
Dang! I'd forgotten the theme song. Thanks for the memory jog.
Tomar
Philip Yff wrote:
>
> In article <64ktjr$8...@peabody.colorado.edu>, ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU says...
>
> [snip]
>
> >I find that Alladin, Beauty and the Beast, and Fantasia are some of the
> >best animation, in almost all respects, that I've seen. And this includes
> >all the anime I've seen too. That's not to say that US animation couldn't
> >use some help, of course, but I have to say that the US animation studios
> >could, with a little work, produce an animation with all the poignancy of
> >Area88 or Macross Plus. If Hollywood can crank out Schlinder's List,
> >Gattica, or Contact, then they should be just as able to animate a mature
> >theme too.
>
> The Japanese also use sophisticated cinematographic techniques in the
> filming of their animation. For example, when was the last time you
> saw panning in a Disney film--yet, it's a staple of Japanese
> animation.
I seem to remember a couple of movies that had aniated panning,
but I still agree with you. The Japanese animation industry is
the best at producing spectacular animated effects(filmed or
otherwise) for a far smaller budget. ^_^;
Tomar