japanese anime (?)
john bailo
or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
El Queso
> are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
Tons.
>
> or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
It has nothing to do with self loathing. It has to do with self
perception and expression.
Queso
Fata Morgana
"john bailo" <jab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:64fd0169.02123...@posting.google.com...
> are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
>
> or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
Are there any North American animations where people actually look
Caucasian? Or are whites so arrogant that they automatically assume that
_all_ characters (even furries and aliens) are white?
Fata Morgana ~ yeah, yeah, don't feed the troll and all that. Pbbbbht.
--
http://www.jazzmess.com/ - The Jazz Messengers: a viewers' guide to Cowboy
Bebop
http://www.cowboybebop.org/ - archive of Cowboy Bebop.com
http://www.sandyplanet.com/ - Sandy Planet: a complete guide to Trigun
(coming soon)
Rob Kelk
>are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
>
>or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
I'm depressed - if *_THIS_* is the quality of the year's first blatant
troll, then we're really in trouble...
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.tripod.com> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"... when trolls are completely humiliated and embarrassed, they tend to
move on. When they stay day after day to demonstrate their ignorance
and humiliate themselves to the point of martyrdom, that's then [sp] you
know that your troll is actually a nut. And as you can see, a nut will
spout off with or without encouragement."
- "Radical Boink", in ott.general
Wayne C. Morris
jab...@earthlink.net (john bailo) wrote:
> are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
What makes you think anime characters don't look asian?
The skin color? There's not that big a difference between asian &
caucasian skin color, and the paints used in cartoons doesn't come close
to matching either one, any more than "flesh-colored" bandages resemble
real skin color of any race.
The shapes of the eyes? Both Japanese and American eyes are
almond-shaped; the only really noticeable difference is the epicanthal
fold at the inner corner. Most American and Japanese cartoons have
round eyes, and even the ones that have more realistic almond-shaped
eyese will tend to round off the inner corner; when drawn like that,
it's very difficult to properly depict the difference between caucasian
& asian eyes.
Americans are conditioned to think of rounded eyes and 'cartoon flesh'
skin color as looking like caucasians because they've grown up watching
cartoon characters who looked like that. Japanese people grow up
watching Japanese cartoons, so to them those characters look Japanese.
Of course there are a few cartoons where the artistic style is much more
realistic, and the differences between caucasians & asians can be
depicted properly. I've seen both American & Japanese cartoons where
this was the case, but it's difficult to think of any off-hand.
Jorge R. Frank
news:3e133724...@news.cis.dfn.de:
> On 31 Dec 2002 19:55:16 -0800, jab...@earthlink.net (john bailo) wrote:
>
>>are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
>>
>>or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
>
> I'm depressed - if *_THIS_* is the quality of the year's first blatant
> troll, then we're really in trouble...
Yeah, I rate this one as a bare 50 milligazas. If even that.
--
JRF
Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.
john bailo
> In article <64fd0169.02123...@posting.google.com>,
> jab...@earthlink.net (john bailo) wrote:
>
> > are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
>
> What makes you think anime characters don't look asian?
oh, come on! most ( rather, all) anime characters look like those
velvet paintings of kids from the 60's -- the ones where the hold the
flowers or whatever..
just name one -- ONE -- anime, where all the people look asian....
also: gigantor/cowboy bebop, tie for worlds greatest anime...
Brian Henderson
<""the_cheese_23\"@(nospam)yahoo.com> wrote:
>john bailo wrote:
>> or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
>
>It has nothing to do with self loathing. It has to do with self
>perception and expression.
You have to remember that early anime was inspired by Warner Bros and
Disney, so you got the big eyes and big heads, just like the Disney
films of the 50s and 60s. It never had anything to do with Japanese
self-loathing, you're very correct. Tesuka and some of the pioneers
of anime were widely emulated, however and the style stuck. It's only
been in the last couple years that they've really started changing to
a more realistic style, and have started including more non-"white"
characters, which I think is a very positive thing overall.
Gilles Poitras
Henderson <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
> You have to remember that early anime was inspired by Warner Bros and
> Disney, so you got the big eyes and big heads, just like the Disney
> films of the 50s and 60s.
Actually the 1920s & 30s Fleisher brothers were a bigger influence.
And of course never discount the power of cute.
--
Gilles Poitras
Obsession: Anime
Profession: Librarian
cow...@koyagi.com
http://www.koyagi.com/
Bill Steele
Poitras <cow...@koyagi.com> wrote:
> > You have to remember that early anime was inspired by Warner Bros and
> > Disney, so you got the big eyes and big heads, just like the Disney
> > films of the 50s and 60s.
Which raises an interesting question: Why did the American animators adopt
this style? Was it based on something that already existed in art, e.g.,
illustrations in children's books? I've wondered if it grew out of the
fact that most of the characters were animals or insects.
Derek Janssen
(Y'know, I think I'm noticing the pattern:
Maybe once a month or two months, we get a dopey troll-wannabe who has
no future in the industry and clearly isn't cut out for the job...
The thread gets *maybe* one or two "oh, puh-leeze" responses and ignored...
A week later, while answering every thread on the list, some newbie/more
naive member of the board digs up the thread, believes every word, and responds...
...AND THEN EVERYBODY BELIEVES *HIM*!!!)
Derek Janssen (remember, it's not just the trolls that're the problem, folks)
dja...@rcn.com
Andrew Perron
wrote:
...how exactly does that apply to this thread? O_o It's well-known
that the early anime creators were heavily influenced by early Disney.
And it makes sense to ask where that original style itself came
from...
Andrew "NO .SIG MAN" "Juan" Perron, I think, anyway.
Nargun
>
> "john bailo" <jab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:64fd0169.02123...@posting.google.com...
> > are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
> >
> > or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
>
> Are there any North American animations where people actually look
> Caucasian? Or are whites so arrogant that they automatically assume that
> _all_ characters (even furries and aliens) are white?
The skin in the simpsons is yellow. Ergo, the simpsons are all in fact
asians. We do not know where in the US it is set.
My conclusion, call it wild if you will, is that the "springfield" in
which the simpsons is set is in fact a super secret training ground for
godless communist chinese and north korean infiltrators.
It's amazing what cartoons will tell you if you watch them closely enough.
Louis
--
Louis Patterson l.patt...@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au
"Ignorance is not the same as stupidity, but it may as well be.
And I do not like feeling stupid."
- Iselle, _The Curse of Chalion_, Lois McMaster Bujold.
Gilles Poitras
(Bill Steele) wrote:
> In article <cowpunk-36EF11...@nntp.mindspring.com>, Gilles
> Poitras <cow...@koyagi.com> wrote:
>
> > > You have to remember that early anime was inspired by Warner Bros and
> > > Disney, so you got the big eyes and big heads, just like the Disney
> > > films of the 50s and 60s.
Please note the quote after my name was not posted by me. I posted a
disagreeing view to these words.
And while this thread was possibly started by a troll the rest of us
have hijacked it into a legit discussion.
Fata Morgana
"Derek Janssen" <dja...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3E14A6BE...@rcn.com...
> (Y'know, I think I'm noticing the pattern:
> Maybe once a month or two months, we get a dopey troll-wannabe who has
> no future in the industry and clearly isn't cut out for the job...
> The thread gets *maybe* one or two "oh, puh-leeze" responses and
ignored...
> A week later, while answering every thread on the list, some newbie/more
> naive member of the board digs up the thread, believes every word, and
responds...
>
> ...AND THEN EVERYBODY BELIEVES *HIM*!!!)
>
> Derek Janssen (remember, it's not just the trolls that're the problem,
folks)
> dja...@rcn.com
I happen to enjoy the discussion that's going on in this thread right now.
It has nothing to do with the troll, who made a single cowardly post and
withdrew. It has to do with the legitimate comments. If you dislike the
discussion, why post a reply? Ignore it and move on.
Fata Morgana ~ you're right, it's _not_ just the trolls that are the
problem... *sigh*
D B Malmquist
>
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Fata Morgana wrote:
>
> >
> > "john bailo" <jab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:64fd0169.02123...@posting.google.com...
> > > are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
> > >
> > > or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
> >
> > Are there any North American animations where people actually look
> > Caucasian? Or are whites so arrogant that they automatically assume that
> > _all_ characters (even furries and aliens) are white?
>
> The skin in the simpsons is yellow. Ergo, the simpsons are all in fact
> asians. We do not know where in the US it is set.
>
> My conclusion, call it wild if you will, is that the "springfield" in
> which the simpsons is set is in fact a super secret training ground for
> godless communist chinese and north korean infiltrators.
The character designs for "The Simpsons" were based on Matt Groening's
earlier work "Life in Hell" about a family of nihilistic rabbits.
Sailor Moon's name in Japanese is "Usagi", which means "Rabbit".
Hmmm.
- dbm
Disruptor
Fata Morgana wrote:
> "john bailo" <jab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:64fd0169.02123...@posting.google.com...
> > are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?
> >
> > or do the japanese have such self-loathing that they do not allow it?
>
> Are there any North American animations where people actually look
> Caucasian? Or are whites so arrogant that they automatically assume that
> _all_ characters (even furries and aliens) are white?
Dungeons & Dragons cartoon. Galaxy Rangers. Jem and the Holograms. Jayce
and the Wheeled Warriors
Disruptor
"Wayne C. Morris" wrote:
I can. Max Fliescher's Superman cartoon.One of the umm....politically
incorrect episodes.
Derek Janssen
>
> And while this thread was possibly started by a troll the rest of us
> have hijacked it into a legit discussion.
Well, couldn't we at least start putting a "[HIJACK]" prefix on salvaged
threads, so we know the dopey-newbie threat is over, and we're
discussing actual content now?...
Derek Janssen
dja...@rcn.com
Brian Henderson
<cow...@koyagi.com> wrote:
>In article <69581v886sj9u7j80...@4ax.com>, Brian
>Henderson <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> You have to remember that early anime was inspired by Warner Bros and
>> Disney, so you got the big eyes and big heads, just like the Disney
>> films of the 50s and 60s.
>
>Actually the 1920s & 30s Fleisher brothers were a bigger influence.
I don't know that it was a bigger influence, Tesuka always said that
Disney was a huge influence in the look of his work, but I'm sure
Fleisher was as well. Fleisher certainly influenced Miyazaki, who
took some of the plot ideas for his Lupin work directly from Fleisher
Superman episodes.
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>Gilles Poitras wrote:
Feel free. The tag won't show up in Agent if threading is turned on,
though, which makes it marginally less useful than it would appear...
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.tripod.com> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis, 1947
The Skeleton Man
"Brian Henderson" <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3hla1vcj4qksc26se...@4ax.com...
Seems to me that Tezuka's work looks more like Betty Boop than anything...
--
Skeleton Man
Is it time I watched the oldies?
Laney
Some of the Kenshin characters... like Sano, Kaoru, Kenshin in the OVA
Shinji Ikari, Lord Aoshi, Yahiko
ummm.... of course, Witch Hunter Robin is set in Japan, and I'm not seeing
it
Oh, "Stink Bomb" from "Memories"..
Naota from FLCL
Tsuzuki from Yami no Matsuei could almost be.. maybe it's just the dark hair
lots of the boys in harem anime-- Tenchi, Makoto...
Akira
and all the crazy, lusty old men
sanjian
> (Y'know, I think I'm noticing the pattern:
> Maybe once a month or two months, we get a dopey troll-wannabe who has
> no future in the industry and clearly isn't cut out for the job...
> The thread gets *maybe* one or two "oh, puh-leeze" responses and
ignored...
> A week later, while answering every thread on the list, some newbie/more
> naive member of the board digs up the thread, believes every word, and
responds...
>
> ...AND THEN EVERYBODY BELIEVES *HIM*!!!)
Damn usenet thread necormancers ^_^.
sanjian
news:av4o1o$c3s7d$1...@ID-174290.news.dfncis.de...
Nagumo Shinobu and Clancy Kanuka from Patlabor.
C-H
> I can. Max Fliescher's Superman cartoon.One of the umm....politically
> incorrect episodes.
I take it you're referring to the WWII propaganda episode. Jingo all the way...
...and one must note that many Asians, including a large number of Japanese,
do not have the Western-stereotyped slitty eyes. Just like there are many
Americans who are not either (1) black, huge and muscular, (2) blonde,
skinny and apparently Californian, or (3) cowboys.
If you want to find an anime character who really looks "Asian" in the
stereotyped sense, Gundam 0083 is your best bet...
- 5parrow
Danger X
"C-H" <sparr...@singmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E164641...@singmail.com...
The two lead characters in "Wicked City" look Asian. And not in any
stereotyped sense of the word.
I'm sure there's more...
More or less,
Kyle
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
>
> "C-H" <sparr...@singmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3E164641...@singmail.com...
> > Disruptor wrote:
> > > I can. Max Fliescher's Superman cartoon.One of the umm....politically
> > > incorrect episodes.
> >
> > I take it you're referring to the WWII propaganda episode. Jingo all the
> way...
Episodes, I believe.
"Japoteurs" and "Eleventh Hour."
> > ...and one must note that many Asians, including a large number of
> Japanese,
> > do not have the Western-stereotyped slitty eyes. Just like there are many
> > Americans who are not either (1) black, huge and muscular, (2) blonde,
> > skinny and apparently Californian, or (3) cowboys.
Yep.
Although Japan being a much more homogeneous country than the US
kinda doesn't help dissuade a stereotype,
which by definition tries to cover as many bases as possible
(and being homogeneous, ironically, helps that out).
> >
> > If you want to find an anime character who really looks "Asian" in the
> > stereotyped sense, Gundam 0083 is your best bet...
>
> The two lead characters in "Wicked City" look Asian. And not in any
> stereotyped sense of the word.
>
> I'm sure there's more...
>
Yet, from the original question, I get a sense that
what the guy is truly looking for is an anime show
where "people," meaning the majority of regular characters
and not just bits&pieces or exceptions to the rule, look asian.
<quote>
"are there any anime's where the people actually look asian?"
</unquote>
Laters. =)
Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita sta...@cif.rochester.edu
| ( _| | U of Rochester cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
The Skeleton Man
"Danger X" <gal...@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:CcsR9.7718$rr1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Jin-Roh
Patlabor movies
Perfect Blue (most of the characters anyway)
Memories
seems many of the films with more realistic atmosphere or character designs
seem to depict Asian charcters more as Westerners might expect.
One might also note a comparison to live action. In live action films in
Japan, most leading males (hero type) and especially leading females (also
models) are lighter in skin tone, have larger eyes and double eye lids by
comparison to the masses. Same is in American live action films, the leading
men and women who grace the screen are hardly representative of the public
at large.
--
Skeleton Man
Is it time I drew something?
Danger X
"The Skeleton Man" <skel...@planetbone.com> wrote in message
news:MYuR9.274804$cF5....@news.easynews.com...
I just remembered...
"Neo Tokyo"
The guy from "The Order to Stop Construction" segment, looked like an asian
stereotype. Or was that more of the 'geek' stereotype?
More or less,
Kyle
The Skeleton Man
"Danger X" <gal...@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote in message news:9GwR9.7499
> I just remembered...
>
> "Neo Tokyo"
>
> The guy from "The Order to Stop Construction" segment, looked like an
asian
> stereotype. Or was that more of the 'geek' stereotype?
>
> More or less,
> Kyle
>
>
Well that was Otomo's segment so who knows what he was drawing. He generally
tends to make ugly charcters as it is....
--
Skeleton Man
Is it time I drew something cute?
Brian Henderson
<skel...@planetbone.com> wrote:
>Seems to me that Tezuka's work looks more like Betty Boop than anything...
His style is his own, but if you look at Kimba, you can see a lot of
Bambi, etc.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>Disruptor wrote:
>> I can. Max Fliescher's Superman cartoon.One of the umm....politically
>> incorrect episodes.
>
>I take it you're referring to the WWII propaganda episode. Jingo all the way...
>...and one must note that many Asians, including a large number of Japanese,
>do not have the Western-stereotyped slitty eyes. Just like there are many
>Americans who are not either (1) black, huge and muscular, (2) blonde,
>skinny and apparently Californian, or (3) cowboys.
The episode was "Saboteurs" IIRC.
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Brian Henderson" <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:45li1v0und0fjia9q...@4ax.com...
"Japoteurs", IIRC.
Definitely not PC.
RwP
Brian Henderson
<ral...@techie.com> wrote:
>"Brian Henderson" <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:45li1v0und0fjia9q...@4ax.com...
>> The episode was "Saboteurs" IIRC.
>
> "Japoteurs", IIRC.
I have the entire Fleisher Superman run and every reference I've seen
to the original has been "Saboteurs". Not saying it wasn't cleaned up
later as not to offend though.
Blade
> Bill Steele wrote:
>>
>> In article <cowpunk-36EF11...@nntp.mindspring.com>,
>> Gilles Poitras <cow...@koyagi.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > You have to remember that early anime was inspired by Warner
>> > > Bros and Disney, so you got the big eyes and big heads, just
>> > > like the Disney films of the 50s and 60s.
>>
>> Which raises an interesting question: Why did the American
>> animators adopt this style? Was it based on something that already
>> existed in art, e.g., illustrations in children's books? I've
>> wondered if it grew out of the fact that most of the characters
>> were animals or insects.
>
> (Y'know, I think I'm noticing the pattern:
> Maybe once a month or two months, we get a dopey troll-wannabe who
> has no future in the industry and clearly isn't cut out for the
> job... The thread gets *maybe* one or two "oh, puh-leeze" responses
> and ignored... A week later, while answering every thread on the
> list, some newbie/more naive member of the board digs up the thread,
> believes every word, and responds...
>
> ...AND THEN EVERYBODY BELIEVES *HIM*!!!)
And then sometimes it leads to an interesting discussion. Sucks for the
troll.
> Derek Janssen (remember, it's not just the trolls that're the
> problem, folks) dja...@rcn.com
Yeah, but you STILL have net access. There's just no justice.
Blade