Naruto episode 47: "A Failure Stands Tall" (spoilers)
The Eternal Lost Lurker
*snarls at that episode title* Failure my a--hem. *cough* Right, then.
Previously on Naruto:
Hyuuga Hinata and Hyuuga Neji prepare to do battle; issues both personal and
political are dragged into the forefront of what is quickly becoming a
brutal grudge match...
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Picking up from where the last episode ended--with it unclear whose blow
struck home:
The tableau is broken as Hinata staggers, coughing up flecks of blood. Neji
derides her weakness; Hinata presses her assault despite her injury, and
Neji turns aside every strike with painful results.
Breathing heavily, Hinata is determined not to back down...but Neji reveals
the angry weals on her arm, explaining that he has attacked the tenketsu in
her arm.
Kakashi explains "chakra points", and further explains the true horror of
the Byakugan, as it can see this tiny pinholes in the chakra circulatory
system and allow them to be attacked directly, closed to restrict chakra
flow.
As he throws Hinata to the ground, Neji orders her to forfeit the match.
Coughing up blood, Hinata forces herself to stand, declaring that she will
never go back on her word or run away--that this is her nindo.
Struggling to breathe, still trickling blood from her mouth, Hinata stands,
ready to continue the battle.
Lee, Naruto, and Sakura discuss how tough Hinata is, and how much like
Naruto she is.
Hinata activates her byakugan--and has a violent attack, coughing up even
more blood. Kurenai worries that one more attack will finish her.
Kakashi worries that Sasuke will not be able to defeat Neji. Gai feels
confident in his student's victory. Gaara watches silently, his expression
unreadable.
Ino worries that Neji is actually going to kill Hinata. Sakura worries that
the fight is a total mismatch. Naruto, increasingly angry, cheers Hinata
on...
Hinata attacks!
As she does so, she internally monologues about how she's been watching
Naruto for so long, and that watching him fills her with courage and a
feeling that she too has worth. Flashbacks, flashbacks, flashbacks...
The fight continues, and despite her injuries, Hinata makes an impressive
showing, though none of her strikes get through Neji's defences.
Finally, Neji breaks through her offence, and she is thrown back, coughing
and struggling to stay upright.
Kurenai flashes back to Hinata's intense training, and how despite all her
intense training, she always choked on missions and failed. She comments
that the Hinata she sees today is not that same Hinata...
...and Hinata charges Neji again, desperate to prove herself in front of
Naruto.
Neji counterattacks...
Hinata falls to the ground.
Neji derides her, saying she is ineffective, and never had a chance, and
informing her she is *finished*.
Quick round of reactions from the peanut gallery...including Naruto getting
more and more angry...
Hayate attempts to stop the match, but Naruto screams at him that the match
is NOT over.
And Hinata, the STUPID FOOL that she is, GETS. BACK. UP.
Stay down already, Hinata! It's NOT WORTH IT! ;_;
Hinata's looking REALLY BAD now, folks. She can barely stand, she's
wobbling, her breathing is severely labored...
Neji warns her that she NEEDS to stop, because if she keeps going, she's
going to die.
Hinata doesn't care--she's willing to take that chance, so long as she shows
Naruto the real her.
Neji informs her that a person's fate cannot be changed, and that she should
simply accept defeat.
Hinata informs him that he is wrong, and that she can tell he's the one
who's truly suffering. Neji becomes enraged, and charges Hinata blindly...
And Hayate, Kakashi, and Gai all jump in to stop him from killing his
cousin.
While Neji argues with Gai, Hinata collapses. Kurenai comes to her side, as
do Naruto, Sakura, and Lee.
Hinata tries to ask Naruto a question, but finally loses consciousness...
Neji starts debasing Naruto for his cheering and his attitude. Naruto
attempts to attack Neji, but is stopped by Lee.
Lee informs Naruto that Neji must be defeated in an official match--but he's
fine with it if it's him or Naruto, one or the other, who does it.
Hinata coughs violently, and Kurenai unzips her jacket to check on her. She
realises that Hinata is going into cardiac arrest, and glares at Neji while
calling for the medics. Hinata's condition is immediately critical...
Naruto watches as the medics carry her away on a litter, stunned, recalling
her words during the fight.
Naruto kneels before a puddle of Hinata's blood on the floor, and smears his
hand through the blood. He then stands, and declares to Neji--on Hinata's
blood--that he will defeat him.
Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE painful to watch
than this one was...
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The Eternal Lost Lurker
www.lurkerdrome.com
elsie
children's television? Aren't you glad they released their report before
Naruto came on the air?
laurie
paranormalized
actually said that correct hits on "chakra points" can restrict or
*enhance* chakra flow, so is it possible to induce Healing via
Byakugan-gained Knowledge, as well as inflicting Damage?
If so, could the match have been extended by having Hinata unblock her
own arms, giving her the ability to fight via Byakugan chakra hits
again? It would have at least forced Neji to block up her arms again,
possibly delaying the next hit...
Oh, yeah, I *know* Hinata was outmatched, and her fighting on despite
hopelessness was the point, but hey. This is Shonen, we're *supposed*
to quibble over technical points! :p
Besides, if the Byakugan can be used for Healing, Hinata might be better
suited to becoming a Combat Medic, with perhaps a higher emphasis on
Combat than in our world...
Hey, being a competent Healer requires not only compassion and all, but
also a degree of calculation, discipline, and yes, ruthlessness. From
Surgery and Amputation to Triage and Black Triage, there are skill-sets
that a Healer must know about, if only in the abstract...
Though yeah, Hinata should do better as a Conventional Genin from this
point on. Standard Shonen rules- Fighting Helps You Grow!! ^_^
Nicely done, though. <applause>
Jonathan Fisher, who knows ELL killfiled him, so anyone else know about
possible Beneficent uses of Byakugan?
elsie
"The Eternal Lost Lurker" <kuraebakayaro...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
in message news:nhvDg.12068$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Hayate attempts to stop the match, but Naruto screams at him that the
> match
> is NOT over.
>
> And Hinata, the STUPID FOOL that she is, GETS. BACK. UP.
>
> Stay down already, Hinata! It's NOT WORTH IT! ;_;
>
> Hinata's looking REALLY BAD now, folks. She can barely stand, she's
> wobbling, her breathing is severely labored...
>
> Neji warns her that she NEEDS to stop, because if she keeps going, she's
> going to die.
>
> Hinata doesn't care--she's willing to take that chance, so long as she
> shows
> Naruto the real her.
>
> Neji informs her that a person's fate cannot be changed, and that she
> should
> simply accept defeat.
>
> Hinata informs him that he is wrong, and that she can tell he's the one
> who's truly suffering. Neji becomes enraged, and charges Hinata blindly...
>
> And Hayate, Kakashi, and Gai all jump in to stop him from killing his
> cousin.
>
That raises the question for us to speculate on: why did Kakashi jump in?
The other jonin have a stake in the fight, but not him. Hayate interferes
because he's the referee. Gai is the jonin in charge of Neji's team, so he
has a reason in that Neji had promised to keep the family grudge out of the
match. Kurenai is the jonin in charge of Hinata's team and wants to protect
her genin. But Kakashi doesn't appear to have any particular role to play in
this fight, so why would he interfere?
> While Neji argues with Gai, Hinata collapses. Kurenai comes to her side,
> as
> do Naruto, Sakura, and Lee.
>
> Hinata tries to ask Naruto a question, but finally loses consciousness...
>
> Neji starts debasing Naruto for his cheering and his attitude. Naruto
> attempts to attack Neji, but is stopped by Lee.
>
> Lee informs Naruto that Neji must be defeated in an official match--but
> he's
> fine with it if it's him or Naruto, one or the other, who does it.
>
Which is a very interesting position for him to take, given that he's
already said that he wants to test himself Neji. Rock Lee is cool enough to
realize that Naruto's reason for fightin Neji trumps his on standards of
shounen bushido.
> Hinata coughs violently, and Kurenai unzips her jacket to check on her.
> She
> realises that Hinata is going into cardiac arrest, and glares at Neji
> while
> calling for the medics. Hinata's condition is immediately critical...
>
> Naruto watches as the medics carry her away on a litter, stunned,
> recalling
> her words during the fight.
>
> Naruto kneels before a puddle of Hinata's blood on the floor, and smears
> his
> hand through the blood. He then stands, and declares to Neji--on Hinata's
> blood--that he will defeat him.
>
That is a cool move. Naruto isn't often cool, but that *was* cool.
> Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE painful to
> watch
> than this one was...
>
>
I still can't help but think about that TV monitoring group and how up in
arms they'd be over Naruto.
laurie
Phil Yff
It's puzzling that Viz or Cartoon Network would change the title of this
episode. Originally, it was "Akogare no hito no me no mae de!!"
(憧れの人の目の前で！！) I've chosen to translate it as, "In the presence of the
person I idolize!!" It could be translated as, "Right in front of the one
I admire," or variations on that theme.
To give the episode the title "A failure stands tall," is to give credence
to Neji's view of the world. We certainly don't think of Hinata as a
failure, nor did she stand tall. She was knocked down, staggered to her
feet, knocked down again, staggered to her feet again, and so on.
The point of the episode is that Hinata wanted to impress Naruto and did.
There's a lot of other stuff in there too which I've tried to elaborate
upon separately. However, it is absolutely mind boggling that the
translators took such unnecessary liberties to 'improve' upon a brilliant
script.
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
Phil Yff
>>
> Question: can the Byakugan be used for more peaceful purposes? They
> actually said that correct hits on "chakra points" can restrict or
> *enhance* chakra flow, so is it possible to induce Healing via
> Byakugan-gained Knowledge, as well as inflicting Damage?
Byakugan can be used for diagnostic purposes. Later on in the anime, in
the bear country arc, we see it used as such. However, the cure had to be
left to the medical ninjas.
Phil Yff
> Kurenai too.
>
> That raises the question for us to speculate on: why did Kakashi jump in?
> The other jonin have a stake in the fight, but not him. Hayate interferes
> because he's the referee. Gai is the jonin in charge of Neji's team, so he
> has a reason in that Neji had promised to keep the family grudge out of the
> match. Kurenai is the jonin in charge of Hinata's team and wants to protect
> her genin. But Kakashi doesn't appear to have any particular role to play in
> this fight, so why would he interfere?
I believe because he felt that a Neji out of control was a virtually
unstoppable force. The Hyuuga have 360 degree control. It was important
to surround Neji to control him. Kakashi had already acknowledged that
Neji's byakugan was superior to his sharingan. He also stated that Neji's
control showed more precision than was exercised even by experienced Hyuuga
clansmen. I think he was apprehensive and jumped in to be better safe than
sorry.
>
>> While Neji argues with Gai, Hinata collapses. Kurenai comes to her side,
>> as
>> do Naruto, Sakura, and Lee.
>>
>> Hinata tries to ask Naruto a question, but finally loses consciousness...
>>
>> Neji starts debasing Naruto for his cheering and his attitude. Naruto
>> attempts to attack Neji, but is stopped by Lee.
>>
>> Lee informs Naruto that Neji must be defeated in an official match--but
>> he's
>> fine with it if it's him or Naruto, one or the other, who does it.
>>
> Which is a very interesting position for him to take, given that he's
> already said that he wants to test himself Neji. Rock Lee is cool enough to
> realize that Naruto's reason for fightin Neji trumps his on standards of
> shounen bushido.
And, of course, Lee was playing up to his mentor.
Phil Yff
Does Naruto qualify as children's television? Besides, if kids can watch
South Park, they certainly can watch a little blood. There's blood in
Harry Potter, too. Whoops, I forgot. There was some anti-literate nut
trying to burn down school libraries or something to get rid of it.
David Johnston
wrote:
>(???????????) I've chosen to translate it as, "In the presence of the
>person I idolize!!" It could be translated as, "Right in front of the one
>I admire," or variations on that theme.
It isn't puzzling to me. Those titles sound extremely clunky.
>
>To give the episode the title "A failure stands tall," is to give credence
>to Neji's view of the world. We certainly don't think of Hinata as a
>failure,
But the fact is, she fails the chuunin exam.
nor did she stand tall. She was knocked down, staggered to her
>feet, knocked down again, staggered to her feet again, and so on.
She stood tall in between getting knocked down. Personally if I was
given the job of renaming the episode I would have gone with "Victory
in Defeat"
Fish Eye no Miko
> elsie wrote:
>
>> Remember that group that counted up all sorts of "inappropriate
>> content" in children's television? Aren't you glad they released
>> their report before Naruto came on the air?
>
> Does Naruto qualify as children's television?
It's on Toonami, not Adult Swim, so yes.
> Besides, if kids can watch South Park,
Uh... _South Park_ isn't a kids program. If parents let their kids watch
it, that's their business, but it's not intended for kids like _Naruto_ and
other Toonami shows.
> they certainly can watch a little blood. There's blood in
> Harry Potter, too.
Which are books and movies. She was talking about television.
> Whoops, I forgot. There was some anti-literate nut trying to
> burn down school libraries or something to get rid of it.
Most people who try to ban HP do it less on grounds of violence or sexual
content (yes, there is some [mild] sexual content in the HP books) and more
on the basis of it being about magic and turning kids to Satan or some dumb
shit.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
Right now you are reading my .sig quote.
The Eternal Lost Lurker
"Phil Yff" <phil...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3fh0121ginzf$.ydpondqxy7ny.dlg@40tude.net...
It's hardly the worst thing ever done to an episode title. And Viz's episode
titles are usually much more satisfactory and true to the original than
this. So yes, I agree that they kind of dropped the ball here...
Not so with the actual *content* of the episode, though, so it's a Minor
Issue.
sanjian
I think they all acknowledged that the fight was over. Hinata's last
standing up was her fight against herself, not against Neji. What he saw
now was attempted murder, plain and simple.
Actually, in the canon part of the anime, Naruto has quite a few good
moments. Sure, he's high on the dork scale, but he's fairly competent,
quick witted when it comes to practical application, and determined to show
his value. It's the filler where they rape his character and mug him for an
entire series worth of development.
>> Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE painful to
>> watch
>> than this one was...
>>
>>
> I still can't help but think about that TV monitoring group and how
> up in arms they'd be over Naruto.
I don't think the outrage over the violence will be that bad. The pedistry
between Haku and Z is what I think will trip them up.
Farix
> The other jonin have a stake in the fight, but not him. Hayate interferes
> because he's the referee. Gai is the jonin in charge of Neji's team, so he
> has a reason in that Neji had promised to keep the family grudge out of the
> match. Kurenai is the jonin in charge of Hinata's team and wants to protect
> her genin. But Kakashi doesn't appear to have any particular role to play in
> this fight, so why would he interfere?
I believe Kakashi got involved on behalf of Naruto. Remember that Naruto
had a lot invested emotionally in this match. If Neji had killed Hinata,
then Naruto would have blown his top, and you know what could happen the
last two times Naruto blew his top.
Farix
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Phil Yff
> Phil Yff wrote:
>
>> elsie wrote:
>>
>>> Remember that group that counted up all sorts of "inappropriate
>>> content" in children's television? Aren't you glad they released
>>> their report before Naruto came on the air?
>>
>> Does Naruto qualify as children's television?
>
> It's on Toonami, not Adult Swim, so yes.
And the SF channel aired a Dracula movie set in the nineteenth century,
that doesn't make it an SF movie. This was a serious question. I wanted
to know what the viewer demographics are. Is the audience predominately
pre-teen, teenager, young adult, etc. I know they aren't mostly my age but
I'm curious as to who they are.
>
>> Besides, if kids can watch South Park,
>
> Uh... _South Park_ isn't a kids program.
Oh, please! South Park got its initial momentum when "The Spirit of
Christmas" was spread around pre-teen chat rooms. The age of the
characters and the bathroom humor targets pre-teens specifically. The
humor is designed to work at all age levels. The fact that it satirizes
sacred cows in a manner that would go over the heads of pre-teens (and many
adults ^-^) doesn't stop the kids from cutting up over the other humor.
> If parents let their kids watch
> it, that's their business, but it's not intended for kids like _Naruto_ and
> other Toonami shows.
>
You're right about it being the parents' responsibility regarding what kids
watch. You're wrong about South Park not being intended for kids. Just
walk into a T-shirt shop and see how many children-sized T-shirts there
are. Many schools have felt compelled to ban South Park lunch boxes,
clothes, binders, etc with South Park themes. And don't tell me the kids
with the merchandise have never seen an episode.
I'm not sitting in judgement. I agree with you. It's the parents'
responsibility. I'm a believer in free speech. As a matter of fact, South
Park has done more than all the other education combined to alert children
to the danger of child molestation. That, in itself, may be enough to
offset all the other inappropriate stuff for children.
>> they certainly can watch a little blood. There's blood in
>> Harry Potter, too.
>
> Which are books and movies. She was talking about television.
You mean you haven't watched HP on TV?
>
>> Whoops, I forgot. There was some anti-literate nut trying to
>> burn down school libraries or something to get rid of it.
>
> Most people who try to ban HP do it less on grounds of violence or sexual
> content (yes, there is some [mild] sexual content in the HP books) and more
> on the basis of it being about magic and turning kids to Satan or some dumb
> shit.
Ironic, isn't it. If you don't know how to read, you can't read the Bible.
HP is helping kids learn to read. Promoting illiteracy, indirectly,
through book banning campaigns is, therefore, a Satanic practice.
Mata ato de,
Phil
Phil Yff
Then come up with a title that is not clunky but thematically relevant.
>>
>>To give the episode the title "A failure stands tall," is to give credence
>>to Neji's view of the world. We certainly don't think of Hinata as a
>>failure,
>
> But the fact is, she fails the chuunin exam.
So does... I don't want to give out any spoilers. However, the Chuunin
exam was not about winning the fights, it was about how you fought. When
we find out who made it and who didn't, we can revisit this topic.
>
> nor did she stand tall. She was knocked down, staggered to her
>>feet, knocked down again, staggered to her feet again, and so on.
>
> She stood tall in between getting knocked down. Personally if I was
> given the job of renaming the episode I would have gone with "Victory
> in Defeat"
To much of a spoiler. How about, "Making an Impression!"?
Phil Yff
>> It's puzzling that Viz or Cartoon Network would change the title of this
>> episode.
>
> It's hardly the worst thing ever done to an episode title. And Viz's episode
> titles are usually much more satisfactory and true to the original than
> this. So yes, I agree that they kind of dropped the ball here...
I saw from your original post that you shared my view. So, we're in
agreement. I just wanted to expand on your, "*snarls at that episode
title* Failure my a--hem. *cough*" comment.
> Not so with the actual *content* of the episode, though, so it's a Minor
> Issue.
That comes through very clearly in your episode summary. You didn't say,
though, whether they had Hinata repeating Naruto's motto virtually word for
word?
The Eternal Lost Lurker
> That comes through very clearly in your episode summary. You didn't say,
> though, whether they had Hinata repeating Naruto's motto virtually word
for
> word?
Eh, more or less. Most of it was just spoken by Naruto in Hinata's
flashbacks.
Phil Yff
> I think they all acknowledged that the fight was over. Hinata's last
> standing up was her fight against herself, not against Neji. What he saw
> now was attempted murder, plain and simple.
>
It was the jounin ninjas jumping in that stopped the fight. Hayate, the
referee had been about to stop the fight but was cut off by Naruto before
he could make the ruling. Judging from his later actions, he had probably
intended to make the ruling but was astounded to the point of being
speechless when Hinata struggled to her feet. It is only when Neji charges
that Hayate tries to correct his oversight and tells Neji the fight is
over. He senses Neji is so caught up in a killer frenzy there was no
stopping him except by force. He immediately intercepts Neji, saying,
"This is bad," as he's doing so perhaps with the implication that he feels
he may not be able to stop Neji by himself.
You might recall that Neji complains about the interference and accuses the
jounins of being pawns of the main house. Guy, however, reminds Neji that
he had sworn a solemn oath before the fight to abide by Guy's dictate and
tells him the main house's influence had nothing to do with his decision.
Phil Yff
And/or that Guy and Kakashi frequently operate as a pair and when Guy acted
Kakashi followed automatically in support.
Then, of course, there are some observations I put in another post.
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>> Phil Yff wrote:
>>> elsie wrote:
>>>
>>>> Remember that group that counted up all sorts of
>>>> "inappropriate content" in children's television?
>>>> Aren't you glad they released their report before
>>>> Naruto came on the air?
>>>
>>> Does Naruto qualify as children's television?
>>
>> It's on Toonami, not Adult Swim, so yes.
>
> And the SF channel aired a Dracula movie set in the nineteenth
> century, that doesn't make it an SF movie.
SFC has long since abandoned its purely (?) sci-fi beginnings. Hell, MST
fans were noticing that back in the latter days of the show, and that was 7
years ago.
But what has that got to do with Cartoon Network?
> This was a serious question.
And I gave a serious answer. Just because you found it lacking does not
mean I wasn't serious.
> I wanted to know what the viewer demographics are.
What they are, or what they're intended to be? Many shows may be meant for
one audience, and gain others. What should concern us is what demographic
its intended for.
> Is the audience predominately pre-teen, teenager, young adult, etc.
> I know they aren't mostly my age but I'm curious as to who they are.
The show in Japan is meant for kids. And, again, the fact that it's on
Toonami and not Adult Swim suggests to me that it's meant for kids. The
fact that it's relatively early (compare its 9:00 time slot to the 10:30
one for the uncut DBZ), but not too early (_Teen titans_, _Yugi-oh_)
suggests that it's for teens instead of younger kids.
>>> Besides, if kids can watch South Park,
>>
>> Uh... _South Park_ isn't a kids program.
>
> Oh, please! South Park got its initial momentum when "The
> Spirit of Christmas" was spread around pre-teen chat rooms.
> The age of the characters and the bathroom humor targets
> pre-teens specifically.
Right.. Cuz adult movies never have toilet humor.
> The humor is designed to work at all age levels.
> The fact that it satirizes sacred cows in a manner that would go
> over the heads of pre-teens (and many adults ^-^) doesn't stop
> the kids from cutting up over the other humor.
Again, we're back to intended demographics versus actual demographics.
>> If parents let their kids watch it, that's their business, but it's
>> not intended for kids like _Naruto_ and other Toonami shows.
>>
> You're right about it being the parents' responsibility regarding
> what kids watch. You're wrong about South Park not being
> intended for kids. Just walk into a T-shirt shop and see how
> many children-sized T-shirts there are.
And there are Happy Meals for PG-13 movies. And toys for R-moves, I
believe.
> Many schools have felt compelled to ban South Park lunch
> boxes, clothes, binders, etc with South Park themes. And
> don't tell me the kids with the merchandise have never seen
> an episode.
Again, intended versus actual.
And Comedy Centrals marketing department and Trey & Matt are two different
things.
>>> they certainly can watch a little blood. There's blood in
>>> Harry Potter, too.
>>
>> Which are books and movies. She was talking about television.
>
> You mean you haven't watched HP on TV?
That's just stupid. She meant things MADE for television. Jesus.
>>> Whoops, I forgot. There was some anti-literate nut trying to
>>> burn down school libraries or something to get rid of it.
>>
>> Most people who try to ban HP do it less on grounds of violence
>> or sexual content (yes, there is some [mild] sexual content in the HP
>> books) and more on the basis of it being about magic and turning
>> kids to Satan or some dumb shit.
>
> Ironic, isn't it. If you don't know how to read, you can't read
> the Bible.
Oh please. Real Christians go Don't read, they let their preacher read
the Bible to them!
/sarcasm
> HP is helping kids learn to read. Promoting illiteracy, indirectly,
> through book banning campaigns is, therefore, a Satanic practice.
Heh..
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"The more steps we take forward, the longer we see the path is ahead."
-Shou Tucker, _FullMetal Alchemist_
Phil Yff
> "Phil Yff" <phil...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:1eon0ey3w3uxi$.1agegm2vquw64.dlg@40tude.net...
>> That comes through very clearly in your episode summary. You didn't say,
>> though, whether they had Hinata repeating Naruto's motto virtually word
> for
>> word?
>
> Eh, more or less. Most of it was just spoken by Naruto in Hinata's
> flashbacks.
Here's what she said after the spoiler space:
S
P
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!
Here's a comparison of what Hinata and Naruto said regarding their ninja
ways. At the risk of sounding stilted, I provided a very literal
translation so you could compare better. Elsewhere, I have provided a more
idiomatic equivalent.
Hinata:
Massugu jibun no kotoba wa magenai
Watashi mo sore ga nindou dakara
I will not bend my straightforward words
Because for me, too, that is my ninja way.
Naruto:
Massugu jibun no kotoba wa magenei...
Ore no nindou da!!
I will not bend my straightforward words
Is my ninja way!!
The first line is the same except that Hinata uses the proper 'magenai' and
Naruto uses the rough slang 'magenei.'
The second line differs because Hinata is acknowledging that she has the
same ninja way as Naruto. Note also that she uses the proper 'watashi' for
I and Naruto uses the rough 'ore' for I.
There are three ways, Hinata ties her ninja way to Naruto. She uses the
word 'mo' meaning 'too'. Second, she implies her previous statement is a
quote by drawing attention to it with 'sore ga' (that). Third, she uses
the word 'dakara' (because/therefore).
sanjian
Actually, this phase of the exam is very much about winning fights. You
don't go on unless you win this one. Nobody who is made a chuunin in this
exam did not win this fight.
sanjian
They stopped the fight, but it was over before that, and everyone knew it.
> the referee had been about to stop the fight but was cut off by
> Naruto before he could make the ruling. Judging from his later
> actions, he had probably intended to make the ruling but was
> astounded to the point of being speechless when Hinata struggled to
> her feet. It is only when Neji charges that Hayate tries to correct
> his oversight and tells Neji the fight is over. He senses Neji is so
> caught up in a killer frenzy there was no stopping him except by
> force. He immediately intercepts Neji, saying, "This is bad," as
> he's doing so perhaps with the implication that he feels he may not
> be able to stop Neji by himself.
>
> You might recall that Neji complains about the interference and
> accuses the jounins of being pawns of the main house. Guy, however,
> reminds Neji that he had sworn a solemn oath before the fight to
> abide by Guy's dictate and tells him the main house's influence had
> nothing to do with his decision.
Do you realize you have a habit of saying things we already know? Just
checking.
Farix
>
> Do you realize you have a habit of saying things we already know? Just
> checking.
Phil feels the need to prove he credentials as an otaku to the rest of
us. Therefore he has to repeat his same points over and over and over
and over again hoping that we will eventually "get it".
Phil Yff
> Actually, this phase of the exam is very much about winning fights. You
> don't go on unless you win this one. Nobody who is made a chuunin in this
> exam did not win this fight.
I agree. I guess the point I was making is that if you won all your fights
you still might not be made a chuunin. Agreed?
Phil Yff
Except for Neji and Hinata. ^-^
Phil Yff
>> I wanted to know what the viewer demographics are.
>
> What they are, or what they're intended to be? Many shows may be meant for
> one audience, and gain others. What should concern us is what demographic
> its intended for.
>
>> Is the audience predominately pre-teen, teenager, young adult, etc.
>> I know they aren't mostly my age but I'm curious as to who they are.
>
> The show in Japan is meant for kids. And, again, the fact that it's on
> Toonami and not Adult Swim suggests to me that it's meant for kids. The
> fact that it's relatively early (compare its 9:00 time slot to the 10:30
> one for the uncut DBZ), but not too early (_Teen titans_, _Yugi-oh_)
> suggests that it's for teens instead of younger kids.
In Japan Naruto is a prime time show (they call it golden time over there,
the time of maximum exposure). Although TV Tokyo is not considered a major
network, it does compete directly with the major networks. The middle of
the week 7:30 slot is a choice slot. I think TV Tokyo is going after the
entire family.
In the US, Naruto is in Prime Time. Cartoon Network doesn't have the same
stature as a TV Tokyo and the network name probably discourages a lot of
adults that might otherwise watch animation with broad audience appeal like
the Simpsons. I know the edited DBZ was a great favorite among kids. It
probably had a larger audience of kids who were generally not into anime
than it had of hard-core anime fans of all ages. The question is has the
DBZ-fanbase latched onto Naruto or is Naruto mainly a show primarily for
anime afficiandos?
The Eternal Lost Lurker
Um...Phil?
There's no "agree" or "disagree" when it comes to SOMETHING WHICH IS
EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE ACTUAL SERIES.
Fish Eye no Miko
> In Japan Naruto is a prime time show (they call it golden time over
> there, the time of maximum exposure). Although TV Tokyo is not
> considered a major network, it does compete directly with the major
> networks. The middle of the week 7:30 slot is a choice slot. I
> think TV Tokyo is going after the entire family.
> In the US, Naruto is in Prime Time. Cartoon Network doesn't have
> the same stature as a TV Tokyo and the network name probably
> discourages a lot of adults that might otherwise watch animation
> with broad audience appeal like the Simpsons.
So, mostly kids watch it. When I guess the demographic for _Naruto_ is
kids.
And since you know all this, why did you ask me? Seriously, I might as
well not have written anything, or wasted my time on this, since you seem
to know.
> I know the edited DBZ was a great favorite among kids.
> It probably had a larger audience of kids who were
> generally not into anime than it had of hard-core anime
> fans of all ages.
I'd say that's a safe bet.
> The question is has the DBZ-fanbase latched onto Naruto or is
> Naruto mainly a show primarily for anime afficiandos?
You're the one who seems to have all the answer, you tell me.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
parv
wrote The Eternal Lost Lurker ...
> Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE painful
> to watch than this one was...
Ah, ok. So Lee is going to be defeated & hurt rather badly, w/
damn some more flashbacks thus dragging the fight to two episodes.
- parv
--
As nice it is to receive personal mail, too much sweetness causes
tooth decay. Unless you have burning desire to contact me, do not do
away w/ WhereElse in the address for private communication.
The Eternal Lost Lurker
"parv" <pa...@yahooWhereElse.com> wrote in message
news:slrnedvpk1...@localhost.holy.cow...
> in message <nhvDg.12068$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> wrote The Eternal Lost Lurker ...
>
> > Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE painful
> > to watch than this one was...
>
> Ah, ok. So Lee is going to be defeated & hurt rather badly, w/
> damn some more flashbacks thus dragging the fight to two episodes.
Actually, isn't the Lee/Gaara fight THREE episodes? It's been so long I
can't remember anymore...
Fish Eye no Miko
> "parv" <pa...@yahooWhereElse.com> wrote:
>> wrote The Eternal Lost Lurker ...
>>
>>> Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE
>>> painful to watch than this one was...
>>
>> Ah, ok. So Lee is going to be defeated & hurt rather badly, w/
>> damn some more flashbacks thus dragging the fight to two episodes.
>
> Actually, isn't the Lee/Gaara fight THREE episodes? It's been so
> long I can't remember anymore...
Yep. It lasts from episode 48 to 50. And, yes, there are flashbacks..
This is the storyline where we get Lee's background.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"The corpse's bitter crimson tears flow and mingle with the endless sand,
feeding the chaos within me and making me stronger."
-Gaara, _Naruto_.
David Johnston
<kuraebakayaro...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>*snarls at that episode title* Failure my a--hem. *cough* Right, then.
>
>Previously on Naruto:
>
>Hyuuga Hinata and Hyuuga Neji prepare to do battle; issues both personal and
>political are dragged into the forefront of what is quickly becoming a
>brutal grudge match...
>
>
Isn't it a little curious that Hinata apparently doesn't know how to
trigger the cadet branch curse mark?
The Eternal Lost Lurker
"David Johnston" <rgo...@block.net> wrote in message
news:fq50e25q0881q6r6n...@4ax.com...
> Isn't it a little curious that Hinata apparently doesn't know how to
> trigger the cadet branch curse mark?
Um...who says she doesn't? It's never explicitly stated anywhere that she
doesn't know how to trigger the caged-bird seal.
But think about it for a minute:
Isn't Hinata the *LEAST LIKELY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE HYUUGA CLAN* to even
THINK of using that?
Another thing to consider:
The entire reason Hinata kept standing up and continuing the fight was that
she wanted to *prove herself*.
How is using a cheap, dirty trick that takes advantage of her superior
station over Neji "proving herself" in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM?
Take a few minutes to think about these things.
David Johnston
I did. And I concluded that if Negi thought she could win by snapping
her fingers, what he said to her would have been quite different from
what he did say.
sanjian
She may win the fight like that, but I'm pretty sure that would end her
chances of making Chuunin this time around. And even if she could, Neji
knows better than anyone else that she wouldn't.
The Eternal Lost Lurker
Except, once again, you're forgetting that:
NEJI KNOWS HINATA WELL ENOUGH to know SHE WOULD NOT USE THE CAGED BIRD SEAL.
Not even if he DID decide to try to kill her.
sanjian
And if she did? Ah well, it was predestined - he couldn't change it.
(I know, a bit of a misinterpretation)
David Johnston
<kuraebakayaro...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>"David Johnston" <rgo...@block.net> wrote in message
>news:iqb0e21amunkrutej...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:38:51 GMT, "The Eternal Lost Lurker"
>> <kuraebakayaro...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >Take a few minutes to think about these things.
>>
>> I did. And I concluded that if Negi thought she could win by snapping
>> her fingers, what he said to her would have been quite different from
>> what he did say.
>
>Except, once again, you're forgetting that:
>
>NEJI KNOWS HINATA WELL ENOUGH to know SHE WOULD NOT USE THE CAGED BIRD SEAL.
No, I remember that.
Phil Yff
>
>> The question is has the DBZ-fanbase latched onto Naruto or is
>> Naruto mainly a show primarily for anime afficiandos?
>
> You're the one who seems to have all the answer, you tell me.
>
Network so I don't know what viewers they are atttacting.
Phil Yff
I she knew, she wouldn't use it. That would be uncool. The whole point of
the fight from her perspective was not to appear uncool in front of the
person she admired.
Phil Yff
> Um...who says she doesn't? It's never explicitly stated anywhere that she
> doesn't know how to trigger the caged-bird seal.
However, if she did know how to use it, Neji's best tactic is to win the
match with a decisive blow right from the start. Instead, he said she
didn't have a chance against him.
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>>
>>> The question is has the DBZ-fanbase latched onto Naruto
>>> or is Naruto mainly a show primarily for anime afficiandos?
>>
>> You're the one who seems to have all the answer, you tell
>> me.
>>
> I don't have all the answers.
You sometimes act like it.
You certainly seemed to know all about time slots and demographics, despite
asking me about it.
> I haven't been keeping up with Cartoon Network so I don't
> know what viewers they are atttacting.
ARGH. I said this like three times: The audience a show is attracting is
NOT the issue here, it's the audience the show is INTENDED for that's the
point.
Pete Granzeau
wrote:
Dramatically, there would have been much more bite if Neji had, in
fact, killed the now-helpless Hinata (well, actually, he has--her
heart has stopped beating, but not with that last attack which the
others aborted), and then let him try to live with the guilt his
family would heap on him for having lost control so badly.
Phil Yff
>
> Dramatically, there would have been much more bite if Neji had, in
> fact, killed the now-helpless Hinata (well, actually, he has--her
> heart has stopped beating, but not with that last attack which the
> others aborted), and then let him try to live with the guilt his
> family would heap on him for having lost control so badly.
The first time I saw the episode I didn't appreciate the subtleties. I
felt it was a very real possibility that she might be killed. I was so
concerned about the outcome of the fight that it was not until the second
or third viewings that I began to understand the real significance of what
went on.
One thing I began to realize is that I was much more concerned about Hinata
than she was about herself. I guess that holds true to the other
spectators. I finally realized what she had accomplished and tried as best
I could to articulate it in the post I about Hinata's defining moment.
Pete Granzeau
wrote:
Oh, absolutely! She'd been such a meek little mouse thus far, one
didn't even realize that she was from a great house--and I read no
significance into the eyes (anime eyes are so damn cartooney in the
first place, and I don't know the anime conventions involved, anyway).
Japanese names are so foreign to me that I generally don't attach
names to characters until long after most everyone else has; I just
think of them as "the dude with the standup collar covering his face"
or "the meek little mouse of a girl" or "the guy with the puppy", so I
didn't realize they were related.
Anyway, I realize that only villains will ever die in Naruto, and this
is an anime that is going to go on and on and on and on (much like the
Dragon Ball serieses, and unlike the shorter things like Fullmetal
Alchemist or Wolf's Rain, which can end with characters dying).
But I still think that his victory over Hinata ought somehow have
turned to ashes in his mouth.
Phil Yff
>>The first time I saw the episode I didn't appreciate the subtleties. I
>>felt it was a very real possibility that she might be killed. I was so
>>concerned about the outcome of the fight that it was not until the second
>>or third viewings that I began to understand the real significance of what
>>went on.
>>
>>One thing I began to realize is that I was much more concerned about Hinata
>>than she was about herself. I guess that holds true to the other
>>spectators. I finally realized what she had accomplished and tried as best
>>I could to articulate it in the post I about Hinata's defining moment.
>
> Oh, absolutely! She'd been such a meek little mouse thus far, one
> didn't even realize that she was from a great house--and I read no
> significance into the eyes (anime eyes are so damn cartooney in the
> first place, and I don't know the anime conventions involved, anyway).
> Japanese names are so foreign to me that I generally don't attach
> names to characters until long after most everyone else has; I just
> think of them as "the dude with the standup collar covering his face"
> or "the meek little mouse of a girl" or "the guy with the puppy", so I
> didn't realize they were related.
>
> Anyway, I realize that only villains will ever die in Naruto, and this
> is an anime that is going to go on and on and on and on (much like the
> Dragon Ball serieses, and unlike the shorter things like Fullmetal
> Alchemist or Wolf's Rain, which can end with characters dying).
>
> But I still think that his victory over Hinata ought somehow have
> turned to ashes in his mouth.
He's too self righteous at this point. He needs a good ass whupping to
bring him to his senses. And didn't Naruto promise him just that in the
dramatic scene at the end of the episode?
Phil Yff
> *snarls at that episode title* Failure my a--hem. *cough* Right, then.
>
>
Catherine Johnson suggested I summarize the points I had made in other
posts without rambling on with a lot of blow by blow details. Accordingly,
the following is the ‘ClYff Notes’ version of those long tedious posts.
Episode 47 is a very significant episode. It marks the turning point in
Hinata’s life. For quite some time, she has been trying to follow Naruto’s
example, but she has never been able to put it all together. Her timidity
and hesitation have prevented her from transforming the effort she has put
into her training into tangible results. In episode 47, she acquires a
hitherto unseen resolve and is determined to make a showing that will
impress Naruto.
When I first watched episodes 46 and 47, I had a hard time accepting
Hinata's willingness to be killed in order to prove herself. In the
preceding fight, Naruto was never in danger of being killed, nor would Kiba
have tried to kill him. Knowing that people die in Naruto, I was afraid
that Hinata was going to be killed in this fight. Making her sympathetic
to the viewers seemed like a dramatic device to give her death greater
emotional impact. Consequently, my concern over Hinata kept me from seeing
her tremendous spiritual growth during the fight. It was only upon multiple
viewings that I began to appreciate the significance of her ordeal and why
she hung in there so tenaciously.
I see the episode divided into four stages. In the first stage, Hinata
states her ninja way. In the second stage, Hinata proves herself true to
her ninja way in order to impress Naruto. In the third stage, she
transcends the fortitude she has displayed in adhering to her ninja way and
has a spectacular defining moment. In the fourth stage, we see the impact
that Hinata’s determination has on Naruto.
**************** What being a ninja means to Hinata ****************
We recall in episode 46 how Naruto yelled out to Hinata to stand up to
Neji. Hinata unleashes Byakugan and says, “Neji-niisan, I challenge you!"
She gives a good account of herself at first and even lands the first blow.
The fight gets more serious and the two go at it tooth and nail until we
get to the cliffhanger: One of the two had landed a debilitating blow, but
we don't know which one.
Of course, it’s Neji. He looks contemptuously at Hinata, tells her she
doesn’t have a chance to overcome his vastly superior power, and tells her
to forfeit. He tells her she must surely be regretting having said she
would not run away from this fight. Somehow, Hinata pulls herself off the
ground and repeats virtually the same words Naruto used in his fight with
Kiba.
Hinata: I…t-tell it to you s-straight
M-my words are my bond.
I stick to what I say.
In her mind, Hinata sees Naruto saying, “I don’t run away.”
Hinata: Because, for me, too, that’s what being a Ninja means.
The camera spends several seconds on Naruto who looks on with approval, a
serious and determined expression on his face.
The camera shows Hinata with a half-smile on her face and then pans the
arena. Naruto says in admiration he didn’t know Hinata was so exceptional.
We are on the verge of finding out why Hinata seems to stalk Naruto all the
time. For the moment, we know they share the same vision of what being a
ninja means.
*********** The Person Hinata Idolizes ************
Lee says Hinata resembles Naruto. Sakura says, "Come to think of it, that
girl has always been watching you." Naruto looks at Sakura in surprise,
then back at Hinata, his serious face reflecting his newfound admiration.
In his mind, he says, “Hinata.”
Hinata still has a half smile on her face. Then, the smile is replaced
with a determined look as she invokes Byakugan.
However, it appears Hinata’s determination can’t overcome the physical
damage she has sustained. While everybody else is worrying about Hinata
afraid she is going to die, Naruto yells, “Hinata! Hang in there!”
This is the approval Hinata has been seeking. She says, "Naruto-kun."
This starts a lengthy sequence where a reinvigorated Hinata charges Neji.
There are several flashbacks while she reminisces why she has been watching
Naruto and why he has been a good example for her to emulate. The sequence
ends with:
Hinata: I feel courage growing inside me.
It makes me feel that even I can accomplish something if I set my mind to
it.
And also it makes me feel I am worth something.
Those are the feelings that come to me.
Although Hinata has been giving a good account of herself, Neji hits her
with a deadly one-two combination. You hear a bone crunch. Hinata is
thrown back.
Naruto: Hinata
Hinata recklessly charges again.
Hinata: Naruto-kun, up until this point, I have only been watching you.
But now, I finally ... I finally ... Naruto-kun ...
Neji sidesteps the charge and unleashes an explosive, chakura filled
counter-strike. A paralyzed Hinata collapses in slow motion, hitting the
ground flat on her face, unable to break her fall with her hands
Neji (Looking down at Hinata): You are absolutely clueless. Right from
the start your attacks had no effect on me. You never stood a chance. It’s
over.
Naruto looks on, empathy etched across his face, he flashes back to Hinata
saying she wanted so much to change herself and was willing to put her life
at risk. The camera shows Hinata prostrate on the ground. The referee is
about to declare Neji the winner. Naruto yells: Don’t stop it. Don’t stop
it datte ba yo. Sakura tells Naruto he’s an idiot that Hinata is way past
her limit and has passed out. Then, Sakura stops abruptly in
astonishment. Naruto smiles triumphantly. Everybody, except Naruto, gapes
in amazement as Hinata slowly gets to her feet clutching a broken rib.
Neji: Why are you standing. If you push yourself any further you will die
for certain.
Neji: I’m finally able to show myself to the person I admire.
Neji (vehemently): Why???!!!
Hinata: I can’t let him see me being uncool.
Drums beat. Naruto nods in approval.
Hinata seizes the moment. In front of the person she idolizes, trying not
to be 'uncool', Hinata is the epitome of courage and perseverence. But,
she has only just begun to shine. She's still got something left.
*************** Hinata’s Defining Moment ***************
We get some stirring BGM and beating of drums. We have just seen Hinata
tell Neji that she can take any amount of punishment to avoid appearing
uncool before the person she admires. Hinata tells Neji she’s still got
something left.
Neji: It’s futile to try to act tough. You’re barely standing. With
these Byakugan eyes, I see right through you. From the time you were born,
you have had to shoulder the burden of the Hyuuga head family destiny. Your
lack of power was a curse. You were blamed as a disgrace to the entire
clan. Nevertheless, people cannot change. It’s as fate decrees. There is
no need to suffer. Take life easy.
Hinata (purposefully and courteously): That’s where you are wrong,
Neji-niisan. In fact, I am able to see that you are suffering more than I
am
Neji: What?
Hinata: You are the one caught in the crossfire of fate between the main
and branch houses, conflicted and tormented...
Neji loses it and charges Hinata.
The referee shouts at him that the match is over. Neji disregards the
order and continues to charge, howling in anger and frustration. Four
jounin ninja jump in to stop him. Hinata, throughout, does not flinch.
Neji protests the interference of the jounin. The camera shows Hinata’s
heart. It beats abnormally, something ruptures, and she collapses spewing
blood. Yuhi, alarmed, tends to her. Naruto, Sakura, Lee, rush to her
side.
Naruto: Hinata, are you all right. Hey!
Hinata: Naruto-kun.
Naruto draws closer to hear her almost inaudible words.
Hinata: Was I able to change just a little bit?
Hinata loses consciousness. Naruto looks down at her compassionately.
This is Hinata's defining moment. The diamond in the rough has finally
sparkled. Riddled with internal injuries, insecure by nature, despised by
her family; she has no self pity. Instead, she looks at Neji with sympathy
and recognizes his agony and inner conflict. We find out a few minutes
later that her injuries are fatal, unless she receives immediate medical
attention. In spite of her dire plight, the adversity of combat, and her
lack of self esteem; she retains her composure and commisserates with Neji.
Hinata was able to appreciate Naruto's qualities before anyone else. She
was the only one able to see past Neji's stoic exterior and glimpse his
inner torment. Could it be that the Hyuuga who was despised for having the
weakest abilities was actually the most skilled? Could it be that she was
the most proficient Byakugan user of all and that she could see people's
souls? Or could it be that Hinata exemplifies the best of what it means to
be human?
Whatever the answer, there is no question that this was Hinata's defining
moment. Neji may have one the fist fight, but Hinata won the the battle of
wills.
************ The Person Naruto Admires ***************
The fight is over. Hinata was able to show Naruto, her idol, that she was
able to change. She can't hang on any longer and loses consciousness.
Naruto looks down at her compassionately.
Neji: Hey, you, the dropout over there. Let me give you some advice about
a couple of things. If you consider yourself a ninja, it is inappropriate
to the point of being despicable to cheer on an outsider. So, cut it out.
And another thing, failures are simply failures after all. There’s no way
they can change.
Naruto charges Neji, but Lee intervenes. He is on Naruto’s side, but he
says this is not the time or place. The medical team reveals that Hinata
won’t last another ten minutes unless they can get her into intensive care.
Naruto looks at the unconscious Hinata on the stretcher his expression a
mixture of sadness and wonder. He has just realized Hinata is on the verge
of death.
Naruto: Hinata
Naruto flashes back to Hinata’s fight and the courage she displayed against
overwhelming odds. He remembers her using his words: "Because, for me,
too, that’s what being a Ninja means."
Naruto kneels down deliberately and puts his finger tips and thumbs in
Hinata’s blood on the arena floor.
Naruto: I make this promise 'tte ba yo!
The camera flashes to the onlookers faces
Naruto: You’re going down!
Naruto has found a person to admire. Hinata demonstrated that a person can
change through sheer will power. He is willing to fight for her and for
the principle she nearly gave her life to prove. A person's value is
determined by what he or she does and not through an accident of birth.
Human beings are not governed by fate, they make their own destiny. This
is what Hinata, Naruto, and Lee believe, and they are willing to stake
their lives on this belief.
Episode 47 is a superbly crafted episode from an artistic standpoint.
Every word, every image, every musical note is important. Because of not
wanting to omit any detail, I had gone overboard in trying to convey every
nuance. For those of you who are a glutton for punishment or who feel I
may have omitted mentioning something important, you are welcome to check
out what I said in my more tedious posts. My intent was not to bore you
but to try to convey my impressions upon seeing the class wimp transform
herself into an aristocrat. Neji may have thought he was elite, but Hinata
demonstrated what true nobility was.
sanjian
Well, it could throw you off. Ino's eyes are generally drawn that way, as
well.
> first place, and I don't know the anime conventions involved, anyway).
> Japanese names are so foreign to me that I generally don't attach
> names to characters until long after most everyone else has; I just
> think of them as "the dude with the standup collar covering his face"
> or "the meek little mouse of a girl" or "the guy with the puppy", so I
> didn't realize they were related.
>
> Anyway, I realize that only villains will ever die in Naruto, and this
Hasn't one (cough) Konoha ninja (wheeze) already gotten it?
> is an anime that is going to go on and on and on and on (much like the
At least it goes somewhere. Well, other than the year of filler we're
currently suffering through.
> Dragon Ball serieses, and unlike the shorter things like Fullmetal
> Alchemist or Wolf's Rain, which can end with characters dying).
Early on in the series, two fairly sympathetic character died. Yes, they
were enemies, but they were also tools being used by the real baddies. I
guess you could say their deaths were redemption.
Hand-of-Omega
> >
> >
> > *snarls at that episode title* Failure my a--hem. *cough* Right, then.
> >
> >
> > Hyuuga Hinata and Hyuuga Neji prepare to do battle; issues both personal
> > and
> > political are dragged into the forefront of what is quickly becoming a
> > brutal grudge match...
> >
> >
> > he's
> > fine with it if it's him or Naruto, one or the other, who does it.
> >
> Which is a very interesting position for him to take, given that he's
> already said that he wants to test himself Neji. Rock Lee is cool enough to
> realize that Naruto's reason for fightin Neji trumps his on standards of
> shounen bushido.
Does it really, tho? Proving himself by defeating Neji has been Lee's
defining goal. It's almost like Naruto saying it'd be all right if Lee
became Hokage or Sasuke saying it'd be just fine if someone else killed
his brother...
I'm a little disappointed that the Lee/Neji rivalry seems to have been
dropped at this point, as far as I can see (does any of the filler even
bring it up?). Perhaps just having Neji *see* what he was capable of
satisfied him? It'd be nice if he at least got some verbal
acknowledgement from him, tho...
>
> > Naruto kneels before a puddle of Hinata's blood on the floor, and smears
> > his
> > hand through the blood. He then stands, and declares to Neji--on Hinata's
> > blood--that he will defeat him.
> >
> That is a cool move. Naruto isn't often cool, but that *was* cool.
>
Heh...Reminds me of a much earlier scene: "Um, Naruto, that was "cool"
and all but...if we don't stop the bleeding, you're gonna die."^_^
I haven't seen the original in a while, but Naruto's fist seemed a lot
less bloody than I recall...Did they visually lessen it any?
> > Next time: Gaara vs. Rock Lee...a match which is even MORE painful to
> > watch
> > than this one was...
> >
And even more surprising...
> >
> I still can't help but think about that TV monitoring group and how up in
> arms they'd be over Naruto.
>
Well, if it gets any serious complaints, they can just move it to
AS...^_~
Dex
Hand-of-Omega
>
> Isn't it a little curious that Hinata apparently doesn't know how to
> trigger the cadet branch curse mark?
That actually reminds me of a scene from Dune: Paul Atreides, before
his fight with Feyd "I *will* kill him!" Rautha has been given a word
that was subconsciously implanted in Feyd's mind. All he has to do is
whisper it, and Feyd's body will go limp, giving Paul an instant win.
During the fight, which is close, Paul is seriously tempted, but
ultimately does not use it...
Incidentally, how would the Hyugas have reacted had Neji killed Hinata?
My first thought is that they'd have him killed or banished, but then
again, they'd already all but abandoned her anyway...
Dex
Dex
sanjian
And that may have been yet another reason for Kakashi et al to intervene.
Neji would have signed his own death warrant.
Phil Yff
>
> Early on in the series, two fairly sympathetic character died. Yes, they
> were enemies, but they were also tools being used by the real baddies. I
> guess you could say their deaths were redemption.
I wouldn't characterize Haku as a bad guy. Sure, he idolized a bad guy,
Zabuza. However, Zabuza said he was too gentle to be bad which is why he
didn't kill Sasuke - deliberately missing vital organs.
We're still early on in the anime and manga by the time we get to the
Chuunin test. However, we know that the Fourth Hokage and Iruka Sensei's
parents were killed by the Kyuubi at the beginning of the story. The story
gets more and more intense as it progresses. The audience has every right
to feel apprehensive regarding the safety of sympathetic characters.
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
雪の様に真っ白な少年だったな...
Yuki no you ni masshiro na shounen data na...
He was a boy pure white as the driven snow...
Kakashi in Naruto talking about Haku
Haku's name means “white”
Phil Yff
It didn't appear to me that they had. I had the Japanese and the Cartoon
Network versions side by side on the same monitor. Naruto was making a
symbolic gesture. He dipped his finger tips in the blood. If he'd gone
more overboard, it would have disrespected Hinata's ordeal.
Phil Yff
> Incidentally, how would the Hyugas have reacted had Neji killed Hinata?
> My first thought is that they'd have him killed or banished, but then
> again, they'd already all but abandoned her anyway...
I think they would follow the lead of the tournament organizers. The
danger of death always looms over the tournament. Although Neji lost self
control, Hinata also hung in there well beyond normal limits of endurance.
Later on, we find out more about the complexities of the main house /
branch house relationship. We find out that Neji's black and white view
was somewhat flawed. I would surmise although the main house tries to
protect its position, they would not act haphazardly should one of its
members be killed in a formal contest. They would meet, weigh the facts,
and come up with an informed decision.
Phil Yff
> And that may have been yet another reason for Kakashi et al to intervene.
> Neji would have signed his own death warrant.
If, in fact, Neji's view of the main house was correct. As we find out
later, it was not.
David Johnston
wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:56:38 -0400, sanjian wrote:
So far as I know, all we really find out is that Neji's father
volunteered. That doesn't exactly guarantee that Neji would long
survive killing someone it's supposed to be his duty to serve.
Aje RavenStar
"Phil Yff" <phil...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1hy8vd0k8wmzc$.1ik65gcvj2u9w.dlg@40tude.net...
"You'll get a fair trial....followed by a first class hanging." (Silverado)
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
That would be boring when everybody acts responsibly.
We wouldn't have any wars or awesome battles!
Laters. =)
STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
sanjian
Sometimes kicking your opponent's ass from here to Tea Country is the only
responsible thing to do.
Phil Yff
> So far as I know, all we really find out is that Neji's father
> volunteered. That doesn't exactly guarantee that Neji would long
> survive killing someone it's supposed to be his duty to serve.
I'd better put some additional spoiler space because the following comes
from anime episodes and manga chapters well past episode 47 as well as from
the data books.
S
P
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Hiashi right from the beginning was sympathetic towards his nephew Neji.
The reason he gave for telling Hizashi not to sacrifice himself was because
that would leave Neji all alone.
He refrained from telling Neji the true story of Hizashi's sacrifice
because he felt that the young Neji would view Hizashi's voluntary
sacrifice as abandonment. He felt it better that Neji think the main house
was behind it so that Neji would channel his resentment towards the main
house rather than towards his father, Hizashi.
Admittedly, the above tactic backfired. By not disclosing the truth, Neji
turned into a bitter, disillusioned cynic. Yet, Hiashi was
well-intentioned. The important take-away is that Hiashi was trying to
shelter Neji.
After the Chuunin exam, Hiashi becomes even more well disposed towards
Neji. He begins to teach him main clan techniques that were not supposed
to be taught to branch clan ninjas.
Regarding duty, Neji's father stated that his sacrifice was not as a branch
member towards the main house but a symbol of love towards his brother.
The act that scarred Neji into believing that destiny ruled people's lives
was actually his father rebelling against destiny. His father wrote him a
letter that Hiashi delivered to him after the fight with Naruto. Neji's
father's words paralleled Naruto's words.
The most significant indication that Hiashi viewed Neji as special is that
he prostrates himself on the ground before Neji. This is unthinkable for
the head of a clan to debase himself before a branch member who is his
subordinate in every sense of the word. This symbolic act is what gets
through to Neji and he resolves to change himself.
The point of this dissertation is to demonstrate that Hiashi is a complex
individual who cares for Neji. He is close minded when it comes to Hinata
(although later he starts to gradually accept her); however, he is very
open minded when it comes to Neji. Had Neji killed Hinata, Hiashi might
very well decide to exact retribution. However, it would not be based on a
superficial main clan / branch clan pat response but a well thought out
response to tragic circumstances.
Phil Yff
Are you defending my irresponsible actions? ^-^
Phil Yff
Why not a fair hanging followed by a first class trial? ^-^
sanjian
When did this become alt.country.music? (not that I mind, mind you)
Aje RavenStar
"sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com> wrote in message
news:ec311...@news2.newsguy.com...
Didn't. I was quoting a movie (western, yes).
Phil Yff
>>> "You'll get a fair trial....followed by a first class hanging."
>>> (Silverado)
>>
>> Why not a fair hanging followed by a first class trial? ^-^
>
> When did this become alt.country.music? (not that I mind, mind you)
You must not remember Brian Dennehy as Cobb in Silverado.
Phil Yff
>>>
>>> Why not a fair hanging followed by a first class trial? ^-^
>>
>> When did this become alt.country.music? (not that I mind, mind you)
>
> Didn't. I was quoting a movie (western, yes).
Silverado (1985) with Kevin Costner, Kevin Kline, Danny Glover, Scott
Glenn, and Brian Dennehey as Sheriff Cobb who said something similar to the
above.
sanjian
Actually, what I had in mind was "The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia."
Phil Yff
>>>>> "You'll get a fair trial....followed by a first class hanging."
>>>>> (Silverado)
>>>>
>>>> Why not a fair hanging followed by a first class trial? ^-^
>>>
>>> When did this become alt.country.music? (not that I mind, mind you)
>>
>> You must not remember Brian Dennehy as Cobb in Silverado.
>
> Actually, what I had in mind was "The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia."
Silverado is showing on Starz this month which is why I recognized the
reference.
David McMillan
Well, even after the C exams, Neji will still be around for Lee to face
off with.
Also, I think it's important to remember that Lee has already shown (at
the end of Tenten's fight) that he *really* reacts badly to someone
beating up on an already-defeated opponent. The Naruto/Neji
confrontation at the end of Hinata's battle is a near-replay of the way
that Lee nearly went after Temari (the anime may not have made this as
explicit as the manga). With the Tentan/Temari thing fresh in his mind,
I don't think it's implausible for Lee to recognize and acknowledge
Naruto's anger.
Phil Yff
> Well, even after the C exams, Neji will still be around for Lee to face
> off with.
> Also, I think it's important to remember that Lee has already shown (at
> the end of Tenten's fight) that he *really* reacts badly to someone
> beating up on an already-defeated opponent. The Naruto/Neji
> confrontation at the end of Hinata's battle is a near-replay of the way
> that Lee nearly went after Temari (the anime may not have made this as
> explicit as the manga). With the Tentan/Temari thing fresh in his mind,
> I don't think it's implausible for Lee to recognize and acknowledge
> Naruto's anger.
And Lee and Naruto shared the same philosophy. A hardworking ninja can
beat a genius who doesn't put any effort in his training. Although, in
Neji's case, he did put quite a bit of effort in his training.
Hand-of-Omega
Will he even have to, tho? Neji was around to see just what Lee was
capable of. It's sheer speculation as to who would have won had they
fought then, but he has to finally acknowledge at least that it
wouldn't have been easy for him to win. And after Neji's upcoming
fight, maybe he's rethought Lee's position...
> And Lee and Naruto shared the same philosophy. A hardworking ninja can
> beat a genius who doesn't put any effort in his training. Although, in
> Neji's case, he did put quite a bit of effort in his training.
Although sometimes I wish the story text supported this theme more.
Most of the "hardworking" ninja actually *lose* to their "genius"
counterparts, most of the time. I suppose that's necessary to establish
just how hard it is for them, but more of the hardworkers should win
than just Naruto...I don't believe Hinata or Lee have *ever* won any
actual battles (filler notwithstanding)...
Hm, was Kimimaru a "genius"-type character? I wonder how one should
classify Gaara...?
Dex
David Johnston
<hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well the truth is, hardworking loses to hardworking+genius.
most of the time. I suppose that's necessary to establish
>just how hard it is for them, but more of the hardworkers should win
>than just Naruto...I don't believe Hinata or Lee have *ever* won any
>actual battles (filler notwithstanding)...
Won't Lee beat Gaara but do it by crippling himself? A John Henry
victory?
Fish Eye no Miko
> "Hand-of-Omega" <hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Phil Yff wrote:
>>> David McMillan wrote:
>>>
Spoilers for upcoming stories, esp. the end of the of the Lee vs. Gaara
fight.
>> most of the time. I suppose that's necessary to establish just how
>> hard it is for them, but more of the hardworkers should win than
>> just Naruto...I don't believe Hinata or Lee have *ever* won any
>> actual battles (filler notwithstanding)...
>
> Won't Lee beat Gaara but do it by crippling himself? A John Henry
> victory?
No. Gaara wins AND cripples Lee.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"We're watching animal porn! _Mary Had a Little Lamb_ will be right back
in just a second."
-Colin Mochrie, _Whose Line is it, Anyway?_.
Phil Yff
Check out episode 190. Hinata rocks in the episode
"Byakugan saw it! The magnetism user's dead space"
(白眼は見た！磁気使いの死角, - Byakugan wa mita! Jiki
tsukai no shikaku). Albeit it's a filler arc but it's
really neat to watch episodes 46/47 and episode 190
right after one another.
Gaara is a combination Jinchuuriki (at least before the
Gaara rescue story arc) and genius. Shukaku was sealed
within Gaara because he was a genius and then he
amplified Gaara's exceptional innate abilities.
Phil Yff
> Well the truth is, hardworking loses to hardworking+genius.
>
>> most of the time. I suppose that's necessary to establish
>>just how hard it is for them, but more of the hardworkers should win
>>than just Naruto...I don't believe Hinata or Lee have *ever* won any
>>actual battles (filler notwithstanding)...
>
> Won't Lee beat Gaara but do it by crippling himself? A John Henry
> victory?
Need some spoiler space.
S
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!
!
No, Lee does not beat Gaara and yes Lee does cripple himself. Lee's
debilitating injuries become yet another impediment he must overcome.
Phil Yff
I guess you could categorize Gaara as the hard-working genius type. He
must force himself to stay awake at all times so the demon inside him will
not take over. That certainly takes a lot of effort.
Pete Granzeau
wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:25:13 GMT, David Johnston wrote:
Why? There's already a whole shitpot of spoiler space above!
Juan F. Lara
Fish Eye no Miko <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>MAJOR< SPOILER WARNING
> No. Gaara wins AND cripples Lee.
Hooray. About time someone did that. :-)
- Juan F. Lara
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fish Eye no Miko <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>
>> MAJOR< SPOILER WARNING
>
>
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>> No. Gaara wins AND cripples Lee.
>
> Hooray. About time someone did that. :-)
HEY!
d-:
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"I'm the impish officer of death."
-Mike Nelson, _Mystery Science Theater 3000_.
Fish Eye no Miko
<genius vs. hard work>
> Gaara is a combination Jinchuuriki (at least before the
> Gaara rescue story arc) and genius. Shukaku was sealed
> within Gaara because he was a genius and then he
> amplified Gaara's exceptional innate abilities.
He was sealed into him before he was born. How would they have know if
he'd been a genius before he was born? And do we know if Gaara has any
exceptional innate abilities?
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"New teeth... that's weird..."
-The Doctor, right after his 9th regeneration, _Doctor Who_.
sanjian
The geniuses are those with bloodline limits. As such, it should be pretty
easy to know which unborn are likely to exhibit bloodline traits, and the
probability of those traits manifesting based on family history.
Juan F. Lara
Fish Eye no Miko <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>MAJOR< SPOILER WARNING
>>> No. Gaara wins AND cripples Lee.
>> Hooray. About time someone did that. :-)
> HEY!
> d-:
That windbag thinks he's the next Bruce Lee; Why doesn't his head explode
already then? ;-)
- Juan F. Lara
elsie
laurie
Phil Yff
These are the episodes where you stop being irritated at Lee and start
feeling sorry for him.
Phil Yff
> In article <Jc3Hg.8021$cw.4991@fed1read03>,
> Fish Eye no Miko <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>>MAJOR< SPOILER WARNING
>
>
>
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>
> That windbag thinks he's the next Bruce Lee; Why doesn't his head explode
> already then? ;-)
>
He actually doesn't have an over-inflated ego. The Bruce Lee stuff is all
he can do. He doesn't have the ability to master the other techniques so
he has to go overboard on the physical stuff.
Phil Yff
Just like Neji had the Byakugan and Sasuke the sharingan, Gaara had special
sand controlling skills. Even after he loses shukaku, he retains this
ability. Additionally, Gaara's father is convinced Gaara was exceptional
which is why he took the drastic measures he did.
Fish Eye no Miko
> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>> Phil Yff wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> u
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> n
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> w
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> snip
>> <genius vs. hard work>
>>> Gaara is a combination Jinchuuriki (at least before the
>>> Gaara rescue story arc) and genius. Shukaku was sealed
>>> within Gaara because he was a genius and then he
>>> amplified Gaara's exceptional innate abilities.
>>
>> He was sealed into him before he was born. How would they have
>> know if he'd been a genius before he was born? And do we know if
>> Gaara has any exceptional innate abilities?
>
> The geniuses are those with bloodline limits. As such, it should
> be pretty easy to know which unborn are likely to exhibit bloodline
> traits, and the probability of those traits manifesting based on
> family history.
So... Their family has bloodline traits that make them remarkable? I
certainly don't see it in the other two... they're good, but nothing
suggests a bloodline trait, especially given their vastly different weapon
and powers. I also have heard nothing about either Gaara's mother or
father having any exceptional abilities.
Seriously, as far as I can tell, the only thing exceptional about Gaara
involves him being a container for Shukaku.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
Right now you are reading my .sig quote.
Phil Yff
> sanjian wrote:
>
>> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>>> Phil Yff wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> u
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> n
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> w
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> snip
>
> So... Their family has bloodline traits that make them remarkable? I
> certainly don't see it in the other two... they're good, but nothing
> suggests a bloodline trait, especially given their vastly different weapon
> and powers. I also have heard nothing about either Gaara's mother or
> father having any exceptional abilities.
His father was the fourth Kazekage. The kage's are S class ninja plus.
sanjian
Who are those referred to as geniuses? In Konoha, the term is used for Neji
and Sasuke - both of whom have bloodline limits. There are others, but some
of that would be spoiler. Only Gai uses that term for Lee. Other geniuses
include Haku, who also had a bloodline limit.
Abraham Evangelista
wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:58:16 +0000 (UTC), Juan F. Lara wrote:
So you're saying he's Mr. Satan?
--
"Oh no! look over there! How did a Chupacabra get into the house? Quick!
Hide all the goats!" - Lisa, Girl's Bravo, English Dub
Abraham Evangelista
Chris Mattern
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:53:07 -0400, Phil Yff <phil...@adelphia.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:58:16 +0000 (UTC), Juan F. Lara wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <Jc3Hg.8021$cw.4991@fed1read03>,
>>>Fish Eye no Miko <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>>>
>>>>MAJOR< SPOILER WARNING
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>> That windbag thinks he's the next Bruce Lee; Why doesn't his head explode
>>>already then? ;-)
>>>
>>
>>He actually doesn't have an over-inflated ego. The Bruce Lee stuff is all
>>he can do. He doesn't have the ability to master the other techniques so
>>he has to go overboard on the physical stuff.
>
>
> So you're saying he's Mr. Satan?
In terms of actual ability, maybe. In terms of who they are, not in the
least. Lee is actually willing to put it all on the line in spite of
his shortcomings, which Mr. Satan never does.
Chris Mattern
Phil Yff
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:53:07 -0400, Phil Yff <phil...@adelphia.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:58:16 +0000 (UTC), Juan F. Lara wrote:
>>
>>> In article <Jc3Hg.8021$cw.4991@fed1read03>,
>>> Fish Eye no Miko <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>>>>MAJOR< SPOILER WARNING
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>> That windbag thinks he's the next Bruce Lee; Why doesn't his head explode
>>> already then? ;-)
>>>
>>He actually doesn't have an over-inflated ego. The Bruce Lee stuff is all
>>he can do. He doesn't have the ability to master the other techniques so
>>he has to go overboard on the physical stuff.
>
> So you're saying he's Mr. Satan?
I think you'll find out that Lee is not as bombastic as he has appeared
till now. He and Gai Sensei both have something of the peacock in them but
their characters are more complex than they have been portrayed through
episode 47.
Chris Mattern
But Hinata has the bloodlines and is no genius. How did they know
they'd get a Gaara and not a Hinata? Well, maybe they didn't,
but just gambled. They got a genius because they got lucky
(for certain values of lucky...)
CHris Mattern
Phil Yff
>> The geniuses are those with bloodline limits. As such, it should be
>> pretty easy to know which unborn are likely to exhibit bloodline traits,
>> and the probability of those traits manifesting based on family history.
>>
> amniocentesis?
>
Amniocente-jutsu (preceded by appropriate ninja finger movements.
Phil Yff
Lee starts out as very insecure. He slowly begins to excel in certain
areas with the encouragement of Gai. Later, he shows some pompousness
regarding the areas where he is strong. However, he is keenly aware he is
seriously deficient in other areas. This is typical of the entire series -
mixing comedy with drama. With Lee and Gai, their antics sometimes verge
on slapstick. At other times, you see the pathos from which Gai rescued
Lee.
Phil Yff
Hinata actually is a genius. We don't know it yet. The first data book
shows the hidden or latent potential of each character. Hinata's is as
high as Neji's but her present potential is only half of Neji's.
However, that's avoiding a good question. In the manga and the data books,
it is disclosed that the fourth Kazekage and Chiyo were aware of Gaara's
innate potential. This was why they were willing to go to such extreme
members.
In all, Gaara's extreme power is a combination of three factors. First,
his innate ability. Second, the demon sealed within him. Third, his
mother's dying curse against the sand village which fueled the demon's
power.
sanjian
Not even in actual ability. As I recall, Satan was a joke to begin with.
Never a real threat. Lee, on the other hand, is a bad-ass mofo when it
comes to taijutsu. Good enough to be on par with the other genin, despite
having 2/3 of his options cut out.
sanjian
Technically, in the way its used in the series, she is a genius. She just
isn't a notable one, at this point (but I notice!!!1111). That's why Lee
being a "genius of hard work" is a bit of a joke. No matter how hard Lee
works, he will never be a genius. He wants to prove, however, that such a
thing is not needed to be a brilliant ninja.
sanjian
Probably not. Naruto-world medical technology doesn't seem to have
developed along those lines. More likely, just the old fashioned family
history method. Ie, it seems to be a given that the Hyuga will mainfest,
whereas it doesn't seem like that sure-fire for the Uchiha. It may be that
Gaara comes from a bloodline where the trait manifests often, or maybe a
branch of the bloodline where it's manifested consistantly, even if other
branches haven't been so successful.