Orange Road ending
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn
I also watched the last tape of Orange Road.
Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
Any other opinions?
Eric
Donny CHAN
In article <4p4em7$5...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
kyun...@ix.netcom.com (Eric Kyungsuk Kimn) wrote:
]I also watched the last tape of Orange Road.
I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
so hard it can replace gravity.
Don Chan, KOR fan since 1984
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) |
| University of Toronto Mechanical Engineering 9T3+1 ERTW |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Don "Gamera" Chan's Top Three Anime Girls |
| |
| Name Anime Seiyuu |
| |
| Asagiri Yohko Genmu Senki LEDA Tsuru Hiromi |
| Ayukawa Madoka Kimagure ORANGE ROAD Tsuru Hiromi |
| Tokimatsuri Eve Mugen Chitai MEGAZONE 23 Miyasato Kumi |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Paolo Valladolid
: Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
: this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
: been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
: tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
: you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
: Any other opinions?
: Eric
As much as I like the KOR anime, what I hated about it was how they
changed Hikaru's character development. The anime Hikaru is a watered-down
version of the manga Hikaru. She lacks the manga Hikaru's self-respect and
introspective side. In the manga, we actually see her slowly mature while
she is not allowed to do so in the anime.
Which leads to the ending.
The manga ending establishes a beautiful symmetry with the beginning. Gomen,
but you'll have to see it to understand. All the loose ends are more
neatly tied up, yet you also feel just as much, if not more, heart-wrenching
sensations. The movie ending is flawed because it uses the anime Hikaru,
a character already flawed by negligent character development, and because
it is too rushed - we hear a resolutin between Madoka and Kyousuke but
we don't really _feel_ it like in the manga.
Paolo Valladolid - Fugawari Orange Street Fanfiction Project Member
http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/ICR/users/pvallado/fos/fos.html
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn
Oh really? I am reading the manga right now in Korean. (Sorry, can't
read Japanese) If you think the movie ending sucked that hard then I
can't wait to read the manga.
Is there a difference between the TV series, the movies, the manga,
and the videos that we are able to rent (I think those are OAV's)?
Eric
crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) wrote:
>In article <4p4em7$5...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
> kyun...@ix.netcom.com (Eric Kyungsuk Kimn) wrote:
>]I also watched the last tape of Orange Road.
>]
>]Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
>]this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
>]been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
>]tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
>]you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
>]
>]Any other opinions?
>I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
yf...@ndu.edu
> pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
> Eric Kyungsuk Kimn (kyun...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : I also watched the last tape of Orange Road.
>
> : Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
> : this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
> : been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
> : tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
> : you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
>
> : Any other opinions?
>
>
> As much as I like the KOR anime, what I hated about it was how they
> changed Hikaru's character development. The anime Hikaru is a watered-down
> version of the manga Hikaru. She lacks the manga Hikaru's self-respect and
> introspective side. In the manga, we actually see her slowly mature while
> she is not allowed to do so in the anime.
Very true. The same goes for the othe characters as well.
Madoka is a very gritty character in the manga. In the OAV
series and movie, Madoka appears mature and reserved, willing
to let her friend establish a relationship with Kyosuke, but gets
irritate when she has some perceived success. In the manga, her
motivation cannot be so simply stated and it is the dangerous
side of Madoka that is partly responsible for Kyosuke's
vacillation.
In the manga also, it is clear that Kyosuke is indecisive in every
regard, whereas in the OAV and movie, it may appear that he's
trying to have his cake and eat it, too. The movie ending is far
from satisfying. Despite, Hikaru's apparent acceptance of her
triumph on the stage, we're left with the feeling that she's been
wronged, even though the entire OAV series led you to believe
that Kyosuke and Madoka were perfect for each other and Hikaru
was an irritating intrusion.
The OAV anime is still very good. However, since the movie
was, in a way, separate from the OAV, I would have hoped that
the producers would have made the complexity on par with the
manga.
BTW, the TV series in my estimation, is better than the OAV
series. The characters are more complex. AnimEigo, are you
listening, because we are waiting.
>
> Which leads to the ending.
>
> The manga ending establishes a beautiful symmetry with the beginning. Gomen,
> but you'll have to see it to understand. All the loose ends are more
> neatly tied up, yet you also feel just as much, if not more, heart-wrenching
> sensations. The movie ending is flawed because it uses the anime Hikaru,
> a character already flawed by negligent character development, and because
> it is too rushed - we hear a resolutin between Madoka and Kyousuke but
> we don't really _feel_ it like in the manga.
Well spoken. It appears the manga is being re-released. I saw
an advertisement in Advance Comics for manga collections that
looked like they were a recent print. This would be an excellent
series for someone like Dark Horse to pick up. AnimEigo could
release the video of the TV series and Dark Horse could do the
English translation of the manga.
Any dissent?
Don't mention price. If you do, you haven't been reading RAA
or misc. KOR will sell.
>
>
> Paolo Valladolid - Fugawari Orange Street Fanfiction Project
Member
> http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/ICR/users/pvallado/fos/fos.html
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff <yf...@ndu.edu>
Hakkiri ieba ii no ni, tamerai ga mimi moto de sasayaku
If I could [only] speak clearly, but hesitation whispers more
[strongly] in my ear
-- KOR OAV and CD from Kagami no Naka no Actress
alby
> ]I also watched the last tape of Orange Road.
> ]
> ]Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
> ]this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
> ]been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
> ]tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
> ]you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
> ]
> ]Any other opinions?
>
> so hard it can replace gravity.
>
Do you think it sucks because it was so sad or it sucks because it was
just a plain badly written ending?
If it's the former, I'm in total agreement. It sucks! I said in some
other posting that the Orange Road movie's ending left me depressed for
weeks. How can Kasuga do that to Hikaru? I tried to rationalize that
it had to be done, that it would only be worse if Kasuga led her on.
But I dunno. Very hard to convince me that the three couldn't have just
continued on the way they were.
The TV ending was very good also. The classic guy-finally-kisses girl
episode. Wonderfully funny and with a surprising amount of previously
foreshadowed events coming to light. All that in an hour.
One of my all time favorites. My co-workers continually kid me about
liking a high school soap opera. But nobody's gonna change my mind.
-----------------------------------------------
Albert Mack
al...@slip.net
Donny CHAN
You wrote:
]> I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending
]> so hard it can replace gravity.
]
]Do you think it sucks because it was so sad or it sucks because it was
]just a plain badly written ending?
Both.
]If it's the former, I'm in total agreement. It sucks! I said in some
]other posting that the Orange Road movie's ending left me depressed for
]weeks. How can Kasuga do that to Hikaru? I tried to rationalize that
[Flame ON]
Of course it was sad. In the manga series, Hikaru-chan also realised Kyousuke
and Madoka-sama had been lying to her for three years, from BEFORE the very
first time Hikaru met Kyousuke, who prevented Hikaru from smoking a cigarette.
Yet Hikaru-chan accepted the reality, and the three of them ended as friends.
I didn't watch the TV ending, but AFAIK, Hikaru-chan didn't learn of Kyousuke
and Madoka-sama's love for each other. Then in the movie, WHAT THE FUCK were
the director and script-writers inhaling when they wrote that ending? I
wouldn't be so pissed if that movie wasn't a KOR anime. However, even if
EVERY other KOR fan AND Matsumoto Izumi himself consider the KOR movie to be
canon, the absolutely utmost I'll consider is that movie is a possible
scenario of how the triangle of love could've been resolved.
I totally HATE the movie ending not because I'm not a KOR fan, but exactly
because I'm a big KOR fan since 1984. As was said countless times in alt.fan.*
and alt.tv.* newsgroups, a big fan of a series might reject fanfics and even
official novels based on that series because, over however many years that the
fan has followed that series, the fan has built up his/her expectations of how
the characters and the stories should interact. In my case, while I don't
expect every anime to have a happy end (I'm a Gundam fan too), at the least
the KOR manga and TV endings were satisfying. I don't know how much influence,
if any, did Matsumoto have on the plot of the movie, but he granted a happy
end to the KOR manga series.
On the other paw, if any Netter wants to annoy me and suggest the KOR movie
ending didn't suck, AND provides plenty of justification to rationalise his
suggestion, hey, no problem. It's my opinion that it sucked, and I never try
to dictate that every anime fan should also think it sucked.
[Flame OFF]
Don "Madoka Inochi" Chan
Paolo Valladolid
: and the videos that we are able to rent (I think those are OAV's)?
: Eric
The TV series, the one movie, and the OAVs are all supposed to be from
the same timeline. However, there are a number of continuity errors
introduced.
The manga has less continuity errors, though some occasional slip-ups.
For example, just where did Madoka get that bowling ball... the same place
Tendou Akane keeps her big wooden mallet?
Plenty of huge differences between the anime and the manga:
1. The TV series covers 1 year in the life of the characters. The manga covers
4 years. The movie jumps to the last year of high school. The OAVs cover
stories from the manga not covered in the TV series.
2. Because of the 1 year vs. 4 years a lot of stories in the manga were
left out of the anime.
3. A number of minor characters in the manga missing in the anime (Sayuri,
Shinichi, Kyouko, etc.).
4. Hikaru... as explained in my other post.
5. Many of the manga stories that did show up in the anime were changed,
some in minor ways, some in major ways. For example, in the story where
Kyousuke pretends he's Akane's boyfriend, the manga version did not
involve Hikaru or Madoka, but it did involve Kazuya. This makes sense as
Kazuya is Akane's _brother_ and therefore is likely to be seen around her
house as it's _his_ house as well. Somehow the anime producers forgot that
Kazuya and Akane lived together, being brother and sister.
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) wrote:
>Eric Kyungsuk Kimn (kyun...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: I also watched the last tape of Orange Road.
>: Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
>: this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
>: been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
>: tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
>: you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
>: Any other opinions?
>: Eric
>As much as I like the KOR anime, what I hated about it was how they
>changed Hikaru's character development. The anime Hikaru is a watered-down
>version of the manga Hikaru. She lacks the manga Hikaru's self-respect and
>introspective side. In the manga, we actually see her slowly mature while
>she is not allowed to do so in the anime.
>Which leads to the ending.
>The manga ending establishes a beautiful symmetry with the beginning. Gomen,
>but you'll have to see it to understand. All the loose ends are more
>neatly tied up, yet you also feel just as much, if not more, heart-wrenching
>sensations. The movie ending is flawed because it uses the anime Hikaru,
>a character already flawed by negligent character development, and because
>it is too rushed - we hear a resolutin between Madoka and Kyousuke but
>we don't really _feel_ it like in the manga.
I was kind of wondering about that. I am reading the manga in Korean,
and I noticed a serious dichotomy between the Hikaru of the Movie and
the Hikaru of the manga. Oh, well, I'm not that far into the manga
anyways, so I might eat those words. =) But I have a further
question.
Where in the world did you get to see the TV series? Is the whole
thing out there? Or only parts? I'd like to see it. Seeing as how
everyone seems so dissatisfied with the movie and OAV's.
Eric
Brian Castleberry
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn wrote:
> Oh really? I am reading the manga right now in Korean. (Sorry, can't
> read Japanese) If you think the movie ending sucked that hard then I
> can't wait to read the manga.
[KOR ending spoilers follow]
The movie is best watched if you've read the manga first. I read the
manga first, and I'm glad that I didn't watch the movie until after
seeing the whole TV series as well. The movie is not nearly as cheerful
as the TV series and OAVs (and the manga) - in fact, most folks will tell
you that it's downright depressing (especially in its treatment of
Hikaru).
Having said that, if you like the KOR TV episodes and OAVs, you'll love
the manga. The characters are written with a more realistic tone, and it
helps the story along tremendously - and like Paolo wrote earlier, it
helps Hikaru's character more than anybody else's.
Plus there's lot's more Manami-chan in the manga, too! ^_^
> Is there a difference between the TV series, the movies, the manga,
> and the videos that we are able to rent (I think those are OAV's)?
For the most part, the OAVs, and some of the TV episodes, compare very
favorably to the manga. However, there are some OAV and TV episodes which
play a bit fast and loose with their interpretation of the manga, and the
KOR movie has absolutely nothing to do with the manga ending (except for
the final pairing).
Brian ^_^
*************************************************************************
Brian Castleberry
Proud Member of the Manami-chan International Fan Club \^_^/
(and the Miki-chan Universal Fan Club, too!) ^_^) <-ponytail! :)
cac...@netdoor.com
http://www2.netdoor.com/~cacklz/kor.html
http://www2.netdoor.com/~cacklz/index.html
"Anime is Japan's greatest ambassador in America." - Karen Duffy
****Support the KOR Laserdisc Petition! Details are located at****
http://www.netvoyage.net/~bkogawa/anime/kor.html
Donny CHAN
In article <4paevf$p...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,]Where in the world did you get to see the TV series? Is the whole
]thing out there? Or only parts? I'd like to see it. Seeing as how
]everyone seems so dissatisfied with the movie and OAV's.
The KOR anime TV series was aired in Japan in 1987-88. IIRC, it had 48
episodes.
Hans ter Horst
In article <4p8kpa$h...@news.inforamp.net>, crs...@inforamp.net says...
[detetia]
>
>I totally HATE the movie ending not because I'm not a KOR fan, but exactly
>because I'm a big KOR fan since 1984.
I just finished reading the KOR manga and I see what you mean. I can only
assume the script writer/director of the KOR movie fell down all of the 99.5
stairs and ended up in a parallel reality ^_^.
The KOR TV series deviated often from the the manga, but they mostly kept the
same sentiments. I doubt the director of the movie even read the manga. Not
only is Kyosuke's behaviour difficult to comprehend, but even Madoka acts very
much out of character.
I wish they would have kept the manga ending. Wouldn't the last two storylines
make a great movie?
Hans.
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn
48 eps? How many tapes is that, I wonder? Does anyone know where I
can get fansubs of this?
Eric
Wei Xiong
crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
>I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
>so hard it can replace gravity.
manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
experience.
--
Wei Xiong wxi...@qualcomm.com
A...Ayukawa..<SLAP!>
Wei Xiong
With all the blow torches flying around, I thought I'd post this interview
with the director of KOR Movie.
(You can find other nifty KOR info in the KORGuide, avilable on
various ftp sites and homepages, such as server.berkeley.edu,
venice.tcp.com, etc)
75) This is an excerpt from an interview with the director Mochizuki
Tomomichi (taken from the movie pamphlet and translated by Tonghyun
Kim) regarding what he had in mind when he made the movie.
Q: Interviewer
A: Mochizuki Tomomichi
Q: Unlike in TV and manga, it seems that you put more emphasis on
Hikaru than on Madoka. Did you make any changes to characters
compared to manga and TV because it's a theatrical release?
A: I used characters just as in manga and I didn't make any changes.
Only difference is that I put more emphasis on Hikaru when
compared to manga and TV since she's the one who's being totally
rejected. I considered what will happen at this kind of stage. I
believe even they have to be SERIOUS in this situation. In manga,
it ends with Hikaru slapping Kyosuke just once but I tried to
make that more realistic in this movie.
Q: I believe you had lots of request from manga fans to continue
the triangle.
A: Well, I guess the movie might be too cruel to manga fans. But at the
same time, the longer the relationship continues, the more Hikaru
will get hurt in the end. I didn't mean to be cruel to Hikaru. In
manga, that kind of half-way relationship continued for 4 years
but although this is a manga, I don't think they can stay that
way forever. The movie started from the idea "What will happen if
they put an END to the triangle" and it turned out to be a story
that's very likely to happen in real world.
Q: Was there something that you had in mind when you made this movie?
A: Since this is a triangle, I think that all three of them should be
hurt. I tried to make the story that makes sense from the realistic
point of view.
Q: What are your "ideals" and how did they effect the movie?
A: I discarded ideal elements. I paid attention to make the movie more
realistic.
Paolo Valladolid
MANGA SPOILERS FOLLOW
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
: >I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
: >so hard it can replace gravity.
: manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
Naturally, a lot of people seem to disagree with you. Let's look at Hikaru,
who plays an important role in both endings. Which Hikaru is the more
realistic of the two? Anime or manga Hikaru? I don't know about you, but
manga Hikaru was much more like a real, living person to me. Yes, she
was often as ditzy as her anime counterpart but she also had a temper - like
a real girl would. I suppose the director felt that the two-dimensional
anime Hikaru was more real to him.
: anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
: experience.
What did you find realistic about the movie ending? What was unrealistic about
the manga ending?
I think you or someone else complained about Hikaru slapping Kyousuke. When
you consider that you are talking about the manga Hikaru - a girl who had
a temper to go with her sweetness and did not take crap from anyone - NOT the
anime HIkaru, it should make more sense to you.
Furthermore, you or that other guy said that it was unrealistic for Hikaru
to dismiss Kyousuke with a slap. Consider it from her point of view. What
if you had been in love with someone for three years and then you find out
that person hadn't been totally honest with you for all that time. Do
you:
a. Get pissed at that person
b. Chase that person all over that place, begging that person to accept you.
Considering the MANGA Hikaru's personality and what I feel is realistic,
A. is my choice. B, which I feel is UNREALISTIC, is _yours_, apparently.
Paolo Valladolid
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: 75) This is an excerpt from an interview with the director Mochizuki
: Tomomichi (taken from the movie pamphlet and translated by Tonghyun
: Kim) regarding what he had in mind when he made the movie.
There is no mention of any consultation at all with Matsumoto-sensei,
the CREATOR of KOR. This director simply imposed his own ideas on
characters and situations created by someone else. That's why the movie
is basically an ego exercise for him.
Changing the storylines in a screen adaptation of someone else's work
might work if done tastefully and creatively (Miyazaki adapting the
manga Mimi O Sumaseba for example). But Mochizuki ain't no Miyazaki
or Mamouri Oshii...
Sir Alby
Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>
> MANGA SPOILERS FOLLOW
>
> Naturally, a lot of people seem to disagree with you. Let's look at Hikaru,
> who plays an important role in both endings. Which Hikaru is the more
> realistic of the two? Anime or manga Hikaru? I don't know about you, but
> manga Hikaru was much more like a real, living person to me. Yes, she
> was often as ditzy as her anime counterpart but she also had a temper - like
> a real girl would. I suppose the director felt that the two-dimensional
> anime Hikaru was more real to him.
>
> : anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
> : experience.
>
> What did you find realistic about the movie ending? What was unrealistic about
> the manga ending?
>
> I think you or someone else complained about Hikaru slapping Kyousuke. When
> you consider that you are talking about the manga Hikaru - a girl who had
> a temper to go with her sweetness and did not take crap from anyone - NOT the
> anime HIkaru, it should make more sense to you.
>
I don't see how anyone could complain about Hikaru slapping Kasuga when he breaks
the news to her that he hadn't been totally honest with her about their
relationship. I can see a real girl do that. However, that doesn't make the
movie version of Hikaru any less realistic. From personal experience, denial is
a very real part of breaking up. In the movie ending, she is in denial that
Kasuga could love another woman, her best friend, Madoka, even though she kinda
knew it all along. So she hangs on to him and wouldn't accept the fact that it's
over. Given the progression of the TV SERIES, I say that the version of
Hikaru-chan that won't let go is more in character.
> Furthermore, you or that other guy said that it was unrealistic for Hikaru
> to dismiss Kyousuke with a slap. Consider it from her point of view. What
> if you had been in love with someone for three years and then you find out
> that person hadn't been totally honest with you for all that time. Do
> you:
>
> a. Get pissed at that person
> b. Chase that person all over that place, begging that person to accept you.
>
> Considering the MANGA Hikaru's personality and what I feel is realistic,
> A. is my choice. B, which I feel is UNREALISTIC, is _yours_, apparently.
My choice: (A) first, then (B).
Once again, I say the the movie version of Hikaru is more in character with the
TV version of Hikaru. I don't think people will disagree with the statement that
the TV series characters are different than the manga ones. And since the movie
is suppose to bring the TV series to a conclusion (or at least that's my take
after reading the interview) then it should try to bring the Hikaru character
along as an extension of the TV version of Hikaru, and not the manga one. I
don't know if changing the movie characters to reflect the manga characters more
closely would be appropriate. I mean, how would you like it if the characters in
the manga ending all of a sudden became like the TV ones? Pretty unsavory, huh?
Well, the same goes for the KOR movie. They kept it like the TV series, which
is fine by me.
Just my two cents worth.
--
--------------------------
Sir Alby
al...@slip.net
My favorite anime: KOR
My favorite anime song: Eternal Winds from Gundam-F91
My favorite girlfriend: I only have one. You know who you are.
Donny CHAN
In article <4pq4g2$7...@news1.ucsd.edu>,
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) wrote:
]MANGA SPOILERS FOLLOW
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]Furthermore, you or that other guy said that it was unrealistic for Hikaru
Not me.
]to dismiss Kyousuke with a slap. Consider it from her point of view. What
]if you had been in love with someone for three years and then you find out
]that person hadn't been totally honest with you for all that time. Do
]you:
]
]a. Get pissed at that person
]b. Chase that person all over that place, begging that person to accept you.
The manga Hikaru matured after she learnt the truth from Sayuri and Manami.
She accepted Kyousuke's love for Madoka-sama, and she gave up or released him
to Madoka-sama.
Don "Madoka Inochi" Chan
Donny CHAN
In article <wxiong.834695120@nala>, wxi...@qualcomm.com (Wei Xiong) wrote:
]crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
]
]>I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending
sucks
]>so hard it can replace gravity.
]
]manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
What's wrong with giving up being a music student in the USA (ugh) and
returning to Japan to stay in love with an indecisive guy (ugh) whom she had
known for three years?
]anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
]experience.
Did you mean the TV or movie ending? If it's the TV ending, time slips aren't
realistic to me. (Oh, the relationship? Uh, I never watched the TV ending.) If
it's the movie ending, see my earlier Newtonian comment.
Don "Madoka Inochi" Chan
Wei Xiong
Sir Alby <al...@slip.net> writes:
>>: anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
>>: experience.
>>
>What did you find realistic about the movie ending? What was unrealistic about
>the manga ending?
I seriously doubt anyone would let go fours years of relationship (a devoted
one no less) as fast as Hikaru does in the manga. If they do, they are
either extrodinarily enlightened, which Hikaru is not, or do not care as
much as they thought they would.
On the other hand, Hikaru's actions in the movie is a perfect match
to her personality and actions in the anime and the beginning of the movie --
obsessive and single-minded, and of course, devoted.
They are many people who have undergone the same break-up as Hikaru did.
>movie version of Hikaru any less realistic. From personal experience, denial is
>a very real part of breaking up. In the movie ending, she is in denial that
>Kasuga could love another woman, her best friend, Madoka, even though she kinda
>knew it all along. So she hangs on to him and wouldn't accept the fact that it's
>over. Given the progression of the TV SERIES, I say that the version of
>Hikaru-chan that won't let go is more in character.
Exactly.
>> Furthermore, you or that other guy said that it was unrealistic for Hikaru
>> to dismiss Kyousuke with a slap. Consider it from her point of view. What
>> if you had been in love with someone for three years and then you find out
>> that person hadn't been totally honest with you for all that time. Do
>> you:
>>
>> a. Get pissed at that person
>> b. Chase that person all over that place, begging that person to accept you.
>>
>> Considering the MANGA Hikaru's personality and what I feel is realistic,
>> A. is my choice. B, which I feel is UNREALISTIC, is _yours_, apparently.
I have no problem with Hikaru slapping Kyosuke. I feel it is perfectly
in tone with her personality in the MANGA. But I do have problem with the
speed at which she let Kyosuke go. I remember asking "One slap, that's it?!"
when I was reading the manga.
Wei Xiong
crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
>In article <wxiong.834695120@nala>, wxi...@qualcomm.com (Wei Xiong) wrote:
>]crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
>]
>]>I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending
>sucks
>]>so hard it can replace gravity.
>]
>]manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
>What's wrong with giving up being a music student in the USA (ugh) and
>returning to Japan to stay in love with an indecisive guy (ugh) whom she had
>known for three years?
Not that.
When I say manga ending, I refer to the revelation to Hikaru, i.e. the
airport scene and a few pages before.
>]anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
>]experience.
>Did you mean the TV or movie ending? If it's the TV ending, time slips aren't
>realistic to me. (Oh, the relationship? Uh, I never watched the TV ending.) If
>it's the movie ending, see my earlier Newtonian comment.
TV doesn't really end, because Hikaru isn't considered in ep 47 and 48.
Movie is a "wrap-up" for the TV and OAV series.
(of course, people will argue otherwise)
So anime ending refers to the movie.
Wei Xiong
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
> crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
>>I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
>>so hard it can replace gravity.
> manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
>Naturally, a lot of people seem to disagree with you. Let's look at Hikaru,
There seems to be a lot of people agreeing with me as well.
>who plays an important role in both endings. Which Hikaru is the more
>realistic of the two? Anime or manga Hikaru? I don't know about you, but
>manga Hikaru was much more like a real, living person to me. Yes, she
>was often as ditzy as her anime counterpart but she also had a temper - like
>a real girl would. I suppose the director felt that the two-dimensional
>anime Hikaru was more real to him.
As far as temper goes, I assume you are referring to her slapping Kyosuke.
That I have no problem with. The problem I see with the manga is the speed
at which Hikaru let go of Kyosuke. One slap, and then she's happy and jolly,
as if nothing had happened. This u-turn is too narrow for Hikaru to make,
manga or anime. Throughout manga, she has shown to be obsessive and devoted,
to discard four years of relationship so quickly is much too out of tone
with her personality, manga or anime.
>: anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
>: experience.
>What did you find realistic about the movie ending? What was unrealistic about
>the manga ending?
See above.
>I think you or someone else complained about Hikaru slapping Kyousuke. When
>you consider that you are talking about the manga Hikaru - a girl who had
>a temper to go with her sweetness and did not take crap from anyone - NOT the
>anime HIkaru, it should make more sense to you.
Again, I don't doubt Hikaru slapping, but I do doubt her making up so
quickly.
>Furthermore, you or that other guy said that it was unrealistic for Hikaru
>to dismiss Kyousuke with a slap. Consider it from her point of view. What
>if you had been in love with someone for three years and then you find out
>that person hadn't been totally honest with you for all that time. Do
>you:
>a. Get pissed at that person
>b. Chase that person all over that place, begging that person to accept you.
>Considering the MANGA Hikaru's personality and what I feel is realistic,
>A. is my choice. B, which I feel is UNREALISTIC, is _yours_, apparently.
I would do A, and then get depressed as hell.
Either way, would you be able to dismiss four years of
relationship with ONLY ONE slap, then go back to normal the next minute as if
the whole relationship never existed?
This is the biggest problem I have with the manga ending. I have no problem
with Hikaru showing her anger, but I am not convinced she is so enlightened
that she would give up four years of obsessive relationship so quickly.
I doubt anyone can.
Remember, she runs away crying after Kazuya tells her that Kyosuke really
loves Madoka. And it took some creative maneuvering by Kyosuke to calm
her. (The amusement park chapter)
Wei Xiong
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
>: 75) This is an excerpt from an interview with the director Mochizuki
>: Tomomichi (taken from the movie pamphlet and translated by Tonghyun
>: Kim) regarding what he had in mind when he made the movie.
>There is no mention of any consultation at all with Matsumoto-sensei,
>the CREATOR of KOR. This director simply imposed his own ideas on
>characters and situations created by someone else. That's why the movie
>is basically an ego exercise for him.
As much as Matsumoto-sensei is the creator of KOR, the ending of the manga
feels very much rushed.
Mochizuki was one of the directors for the TV series and OAV. To say that
he does not know KOR well is simply not true.
>Changing the storylines in a screen adaptation of someone else's work
>might work if done tastefully and creatively (Miyazaki adapting the
Taste is subjective.
If the movie is wrong, as you claim, then why does Matsumoto chose to
follow the movie for Shin KOR, instead of the happy jolly ending of the manga?
Wei Xiong
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>: manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
>: anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
>: experience.
>Hi Wei,
Hello. *waving to my phone jack*
>I remember you saying that before but I don't remember being convinced by
>the points you brought up to support your statement. Consider the following
>situation:
Well, I tried. ^_^
>You discover that the person that you have been in love with for three years
>has not been totally honest with you about his/her true feelings. In fact,
>the truth hurts a LOT. Which would be the more realistic reaction:
>a. Stalk that person, chasing him/her around, hoping you can somehow change
>the situation.
>b. Do something else.
>Personally, I find Choice A. above, which is the course taken in the movie,
>to be highly unrealistic.
Believe or not, I've seen the scenerio happen to a couple friends.
And many people will tell you they have undergone similar situation.
It all goes down to not believing the relationship is over.
Four years of attachment is difficult to let go, especially so sudden.
Paolo Valladolid
: >I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
: >so hard it can replace gravity.
: manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
: anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
: experience.
Hi Wei,
I remember you saying that before but I don't remember being convinced by
the points you brought up to support your statement. Consider the following
situation:
You discover that the person that you have been in love with for three years
has not been totally honest with you about his/her true feelings. In fact,
the truth hurts a LOT. Which would be the more realistic reaction:
a. Stalk that person, chasing him/her around, hoping you can somehow change
the situation.
b. Do something else.
Personally, I find Choice A. above, which is the course taken in the movie,
to be highly unrealistic.
Ryan Mathews
Well, I better get this out while the KOR ending is once again a topic
for discussion. There's a song I would dearly love to see made into a
video for the KOR movie, but I lack the means to do it myself. If done
right, it could be beautiful. Here are the lyrics. Tell me if you
think they're appropriate.
"Break Your Heart"
written by Stephen Page
performed by Barenaked Ladies, album: BORN ON A PIRATE SHIP
The bravest thing I've ever done
Was to run away and hide
But not this time, not this time.
And the weakest thing I've ever done
Was to stay right by your side
Just like this time, and every time.
I couldn't tell you I was happy you were gone,
So I lied, and said that I missed you when we were apart.
I couldn't tell you, so I had to lead you on,
But I didn't mean to break your heart.
And if I always seem distracted
Like my mind is somewhere else
That's because it's true, yes it's true.
It's this stupid pride that makes me feel
Like I have to follow through
Even half-assedly, loving you.
Why must I always speak in terms of cowardice?
When I guess I just should've told you right from the start.
Why must I always tell you all I want is this?
I guess 'cause I didn't want to break your heart.
And you said
"What'd you think that I was gonna do,
Curl up and die, just because of you?
I'm not that weak, you know.
What'd you think that I was gonna do,
Try to make you love me as much as I love you?
How could you be so low?
You arrogant man,
What do you think I am?
My heart will be fine,
Just stop wasting my time!"
And now I know that you will be okay,
And that I got what I want,
And that's rid of you. Good-bye.
And it's not because I'll be missing you, that makes me fall apart.
It's just that I didn't mean to break
No, I didn't mean to break
No, I didn't mean to break
Your heart.
--
---------- Ryan Mathews
Email: math...@ix.netcom.com "Sayonara to intrusive noise/
SnailMail: 401 Mortimer Drive #410 No more childish play and no more toys"
Bedford OH, 44146 -- Sharon Apple, "Information High"
Sir Alby
Wei Xiong wrote:
>
> pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>
> >: manga ending is too... shall we say ... out of the real world.
> >: anime ending is far more realistic, as many people will testify per personal
> >: experience.
>
> >Hi Wei,
>
>
> >the points you brought up to support your statement. Consider the following
> >situation:
>
>
> >You discover that the person that you have been in love with for three years
> >has not been totally honest with you about his/her true feelings. In fact,
> >the truth hurts a LOT. Which would be the more realistic reaction:
>
> >a. Stalk that person, chasing him/her around, hoping you can somehow change
> >the situation.
>
> >b. Do something else.
>
> >Personally, I find Choice A. above, which is the course taken in the movie,
> >to be highly unrealistic.
Strange. Choice A is exactly the one I would say is the MOST realistic. I've
seen it happen again and again. Myself included.
>
> Believe or not, I've seen the scenerio happen to a couple friends.
> And many people will tell you they have undergone similar situation.
> It all goes down to not believing the relationship is over.
> Four years of attachment is difficult to let go, especially so sudden.
>
Right on.
Peter
Donny CHAN <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote:
> ]Oh my goodness. I never really knew why it was so popular until I saw
> ]this. Poor Hikaru. She really does love Kyosuke. But Kyosuke has
> ]been just too nice and in a sense just led her on. I was almost in
> ]tears when I watched him dump her. And I'm not one for tears, mind
> ]you. But this was heart-wrenching at the least.
> ]Any other opinions?
> I love the manga ending. I didn't watch the TV ending. The movie ending sucks
> so hard it can replace gravity.
I'll never forget the day. I was in my history class at SDSU back in
1988, learning about the Great Depression. It was boring, and I had
gotten volume 18 of the manga the Saturday before up in LA (this was
before they got the Yaohan in San Diego), so I was reading that.
Then the second story began. Manami, holding Hikaru. Showing her the
hat. Hikaru running out into the rain. Madoka, leaving at Narita. Hikaru
showing up. SLAP. Then it was okay. Then the last scene on the stairs.
The end. I will never forget that summer, blah blah.
It was cool. It was nice. Kind of like your favorite Brady Bunch
episode.
THEN there was the MOVIE. It had BALLS. It was a great, great thrust at
the heart of every KOR fan, a swift stroke to emblazen itself in our
minds forever. It
As to your refusal to admit that the movie is the "real" ending,
remember that Matsumoto and Terada WROTE it. It's as cannon as the
Bible. That goes likewise for the two KOR novels. (Yes, I know, I am
still working on the second KOR novel, sorry all!)
I love the movie. Its boldness rules. It did more to keep the KOR
universe from just drifting off into lameness than all the fluff of the
manga series.
--
I have a list of Japan-related items (anime/manga, JPOP, some adult
material) available at http://www.zynet.com/~seishun/index.html. Email
age verification to sei...@mail.wind.co.jp for access to adult site.
<HTML><H1><BLINK>The Japan List</H1></HTML>
Peter
> [Flame ON]
>
> Of course it was sad. In the manga series, Hikaru-chan also realised Kyousuke
> and Madoka-sama had been lying to her for three years, from BEFORE the very
> first time Hikaru met Kyousuke, who prevented Hikaru from smoking a cigarette.
> Yet Hikaru-chan accepted the reality, and the three of them ended as friends.
> I didn't watch the TV ending, but AFAIK, Hikaru-chan didn't learn of Kyousuke
> and Madoka-sama's love for each other. Then in the movie, WHAT THE FUCK were
> the director and script-writers inhaling when they wrote that ending? I
> wouldn't be so pissed if that movie wasn't a KOR anime. However, even if
> EVERY other KOR fan AND Matsumoto Izumi himself consider the KOR movie to be
> canon, the absolutely utmost I'll consider is that movie is a possible
> scenario of how the triangle of love could've been resolved.
They were making a bold stroke. They were ENDING the friendship. CRASH!!
"Watashi...mo, 3-nin de irarenain da ne..." The only thing I had to say
about the movie was, where are the motiffs we want: hat, playground,
Yusaku? The powers can stay out, since it's about the people, not the
powers.
> I totally HATE the movie ending not because I'm not a KOR fan, but exactly
> because I'm a big KOR fan since 1984. As was said countless times in alt.fan.*
> and alt.tv.* newsgroups, a big fan of a series might reject fanfics and even
> official novels based on that series because, over however many years that the
> fan has followed that series, the fan has built up his/her expectations of how
> the characters and the stories should interact. In my case, while I don't
> expect every anime to have a happy end (I'm a Gundam fan too), at the least
> the KOR manga and TV endings were satisfying. I don't know how much influence,
> if any, did Matsumoto have on the plot of the movie, but he granted a happy
> end to the KOR manga series.
Did you read the KOR novel? If you deny the the KOR movie you have to
deny the KOR novels, too, and that's pretty hard to do since they're
"tight" and good. Pyramid Murder Mystery is also good. You will all get
it soon as soon as I have a free hand.
> On the other paw, if any Netter wants to annoy me and suggest the KOR movie
> ending didn't suck, AND provides plenty of justification to rationalise his
> suggestion, hey, no problem. It's my opinion that it sucked, and I never try
> to dictate that every anime fan should also think it sucked.
Believe me when I say that it's my favorite animated movie, man. I own
one commercial anime video that I will never get rid of, and it's the
KOR movie. I love that movie and watch it again every year or so to
check my Japanese.
Have you discussed this with Patty Duffield? She was the one who got our
whole club into KOR, and she, was in Japan to watch the KOR movie at its
premier (lucky stiff). She agrees with you.
Peter
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn <kyun...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >The manga ending establishes a beautiful symmetry with the beginning. Gomen,
> >but you'll have to see it to understand. All the loose ends are more
> >neatly tied up, yet you also feel just as much, if not more, heart-wrenching
> >sensations. The movie ending is flawed because it uses the anime Hikaru,
> >a character already flawed by negligent character development, and because
> >it is too rushed - we hear a resolutin between Madoka and Kyousuke but
> >we don't really _feel_ it like in the manga.
Come on, there isn't even any focus on Madoka and Kyosuke in the manga
ending. There's no kokuhaku, no "Ore no ho koso, ore no ho
koso...Ore...Ayukawa...suki da!" scene to make get all doki doki, no
warmth between them, no image of Kyosuke and Ayukawa together except on
the last page when the hat blows away again.
The movie was much better.
Donny CHAN
In article <wxiong.834775020@nala>, wxi...@qualcomm.com (Wei Xiong) wrote:
]Taste is subjective.
]If the movie is wrong, as you claim, then why does Matsumoto chose to
]follow the movie for Shin KOR, instead of the happy jolly ending of the
manga?
Maybe it's the same reason as the relationship between Macross 7 and i)
Macross TV, or ii) Macross:DYRL?
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) |
| University of Toronto Mechanical Engineering 9T3+1 ERTW |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Don "Gamera" Chan's Top Three Anime Girls |
| |
| Name Anime Seiyuu |
| |
| Asagiri Yohko Genmu Senki LEDA Tsuru Hiromi |
| Ayukawa Madoka Kimagure ORANGE ROAD Tsuru Hiromi |
| Tokimatsuri Eve Mugen Chitai MEGAZONE 23 Miyasato Kumi |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Russell Martin
Sir Alby <al...@slip.net> wrote:
>Wei Xiong wrote:
>>
>> pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>>
>> >You discover that the person that you have been in love with for three years
>> >has not been totally honest with you about his/her true feelings. In fact,
>> >the truth hurts a LOT. Which would be the more realistic reaction:
>>
>> >a. Stalk that person, chasing him/her around, hoping you can somehow change
>> >the situation.
>>
>> >b. Do something else.
>>
>> >Personally, I find Choice A. above, which is the course taken in the movie,
>> >to be highly unrealistic.
>Strange. Choice A is exactly the one I would say is the MOST realistic. I've
>seen it happen again and again. Myself included.
>>
>> Believe or not, I've seen the scenerio happen to a couple friends.
>> And many people will tell you they have undergone similar situation.
>> It all goes down to not believing the relationship is over.
>> Four years of attachment is difficult to let go, especially so sudden.
>>
>Right on.
Absolutely! Probably the one thing that made the KOR movie so
gut-wrenching for me to watch was that Hikaru's actions *were* so true
to life: I've seen people react the same way that she does, and it's
awful to behold. It may not seem logical for a person to follow her
course of action, but logic does not rule the day in such matters...
--
Russell Martin
rma...@interlog.com
Paolo Valladolid
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: If the movie is wrong, as you claim, then why does Matsumoto chose to
: follow the movie for Shin KOR, instead of the happy jolly ending of the manga?
Do you know for sure it was Matsumoto's choice. I have heard that the
novel was actually written by the other named author - I forgot his name.
Jolly ending? Hardly.
Paolo Valladolid
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: I have no problem with Hikaru slapping Kyosuke. I feel it is perfectly
: speed at which she let Kyosuke go. I remember asking "One slap, that's it?!"
: when I was reading the manga.
Remember what happened right after the slap?
Paolo Valladolid
Here's another strike against the movie for lack of realism:
The Madoka-Hikaru confrontation.
Hikaru may have had a four-year relationship with Kyousuke, but she and
Madoka have a much longer and deeper relationship than that. Can a 16-year
old friendship end with a short, abrupt conversation?
For your consideration.
Paolo Valladolid
Sir Alby (al...@slip.net) wrote:
: Strange. Choice A is exactly the one I would say is the MOST realistic. I've
I guess it's highly up to the individual. I've seen lots of people go both
ways:
a. Chase person who dumped you and beg them to reconsider.
b. Cry and never speak to that person again.
Paolo Valladolid
MORE MANGA SPOILERS BELOW
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: As far as temper goes, I assume you are referring to her slapping Kyosuke.
: That I have no problem with. The problem I see with the manga is the speed
: at which Hikaru let go of Kyosuke. One slap, and then she's happy and jolly,
Here is where we really disagree. What does Hikaru do right after she
slaps Kyousuke. Does she really turn happy and jolly? No! She then catches
the sneaky Madoka who is trying to slip away and gives her the tongue-lashing
of her life. Sure doesn't sound happy and jolly to me.
: as if nothing had happened. This u-turn is too narrow for Hikaru to make,
: manga or anime. Throughout manga, she has shown to be obsessive and devoted,
: to discard four years of relationship so quickly is much too out of tone
: with her personality, manga or anime.
Again I disagree. Consider that several days, possibly weeks passed between
the moment of revelation from Manami and the airport confrontation. Hikaru
most likely had the necessary time to think things over, reflect, and
finally accept the situation. Perhaps you read the softcover version of
the manga. The wideban has a few extra panels and dialogue that really
help clear things up.
: I would do A, and then get depressed as hell.
: Either way, would you be able to dismiss four years of
: relationship with ONLY ONE slap, then go back to normal the next minute as if
: the whole relationship never existed?
Well as I stated above, that wasn't what happened in the manga. It was not
"back to normal" the next minute. The next minute (and many minutes after)
are occupied by a very heart-wrenching confrotation between Hikaru and
Madoka.
: This is the biggest problem I have with the manga ending. I have no problem
: with Hikaru showing her anger, but I am not convinced she is so enlightened
: that she would give up four years of obsessive relationship so quickly.
: I doubt anyone can.
See above.
Wei Xiong
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>Here's another strike against the movie for lack of realism:
>The Madoka-Hikaru confrontation.
>Hikaru may have had a four-year relationship with Kyousuke, but she and
>Madoka have a much longer and deeper relationship than that. Can a 16-year
>old friendship end with a short, abrupt conversation?
Sure. If it were long and logical, then it wouldn't be real.
Hikaru is angry at Madoka, and when you are angry, you don't sit down
and talk. You toss out a few stingers and leave.
Wei Xiong
crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
>Just curious: Can someone check the credits of the KOR movie?
The 'official' credit only lists Matsumoto as the creator of KOR.
Movie
Director: .................. Mochizuki Tomomichi
Producers: ................. Kawano Hideo (Toho)
Fukakusa Reiko (Studio Pierrot)
Screenplay: ................ Tarada Kenji
Character Design: .......... Takada Akemi
Music: ..................... Sagisu Shiroo
Animation Director: ........ Gotoo Masako
Art Director: .............. Miura Satoshi
Director of Photography: ... Kaneko Jin
Audio Director: ............ Matsuura Noriyoshi
Produced by: ............... Toho Company, LTD.
Studio Pierrot
Wei Xiong
math...@ix.netcom.com(Ryan Mathews) writes:
>Well, I better get this out while the KOR ending is once again a topic
>for discussion. There's a song I would dearly love to see made into a
>video for the KOR movie, but I lack the means to do it myself. If done
>right, it could be beautiful. Here are the lyrics. Tell me if you
>think they're appropriate.
>"Break Your Heart"
>written by Stephen Page
>performed by Barenaked Ladies, album: BORN ON A PIRATE SHIP
Geez, talk about right on.
Sir Alby
Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>
> Sir Alby (al...@slip.net) wrote:
> : Strange. Choice A is exactly the one I would say is the MOST realistic. I've
> : seen it happen again and again. Myself included.
>
> I guess it's highly up to the individual. I've seen lots of people go both
> ways:
>
> a. Chase person who dumped you and beg them to reconsider.
The point is not that you chase the person and beg them to reconsider.
The point is that you deny the person ever dumped you. You just go
right on acting as if nothing ever happened. If I recall correctly, the
movie Hikaru never asks Kasuga to take her back. She just acts as if he
hadn't broken up with her. She goes right on audtioning and practicing
for the show, fixes him lunches, and calls him for dates, as if nothing
had happened.
I agree that for somebody to chase the person who just dumped
them and ask to be taken back is a little unrealistic. Unless, of
course, you have one of those psycho guys who stalks the person who
dumped them and kills them.
> b. Cry and never speak to that person again.
>
Yes, this also happens. Just doesn't seem like Hikaru of the TV
version would do that. Do you agree with this?
Wei Xiong
crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) writes:
>I know there are manga-based novels written by certain authors and have
>illustrations drawn by the creators of the relevant manga. Eg, a friend
>who's a City Hunter fan recently read the Chinese edition of a City Hunter
>novel. However, in the case of KOR, since I don't have the Shin KOR novels, I
>don't know how much participation Matsumoto-sensei has in the production of
>the novels.
As I recall, Matsumoto-sensei came up with the idea and the plot, etc.
The actual writing was done by Kenji Tarada, who did the screenplay for
the anime series (TV, OAV, movie).
Donny CHAN
In article <1996061610564673388@[202.230.39.193]>,
sei...@mail.wind.co.jp (Peter) wrote:
]I'll never forget the day. I was in my history class at SDSU back in
]1988, learning about the Great Depression. It was boring, and I had
]gotten volume 18 of the manga the Saturday before up in LA (this was
]before they got the Yaohan in San Diego), so I was reading that.
]Then the second story began. Manami, holding Hikaru. Showing her the
]hat. Hikaru running out into the rain. Madoka, leaving at Narita. Hikaru
]showing up. SLAP. Then it was okay. Then the last scene on the stairs.
]The end. I will never forget that summer, blah blah.
Since my stacks of Shounen Jump are in storage, I don't remember if I first
read the manga ending in Shounen Jump or in KOR Vol 18.
]THEN there was the MOVIE. It had BALLS. It was a great, great thrust at
]the heart of every KOR fan, a swift stroke to emblazen itself in our
]minds forever. It
]I love the movie. Its boldness rules. It did more to keep the KOR
]universe from just drifting off into lameness than all the fluff of the
]manga series.
"It's better to burn out, than to fade away." - The Kurgan, Highlander
]As to your refusal to admit that the movie is the "real" ending,
]remember that Matsumoto and Terada WROTE it. It's as cannon as the
Just curious: Can someone check the credits of the KOR movie?
Anyway, I belong to the Madoka faction of KOR fans, aka the Darling-haters.
(Wah, a flamebait. Does any KOR fan in r.a.a.misc still belong to the Hikaru
faction?) In the manga, I morbidly like when bad things happen to Hikaru-chan.
But in the movie, though I know her doom was inevitable, I admit I felt sorry
for her. After reading her and other KOR characters' lives for three years
(real time), despite she's a fictional character, Hikaru-chan has feelings
too.
Donny CHAN
In article <4q234t$h...@news1.ucsd.edu>,
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) wrote:
]MORE MANGA SPOILERS BELOW
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]
]Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
]: as if nothing had happened. This u-turn is too narrow for Hikaru to make,
]: manga or anime. Throughout manga, she has shown to be obsessive and
devoted,
]: to discard four years of relationship so quickly is much too out of tone
]: with her personality, manga or anime.
]
]Again I disagree. Consider that several days, possibly weeks passed between
]the moment of revelation from Manami and the airport confrontation. Hikaru
]most likely had the necessary time to think things over, reflect, and
]finally accept the situation. Perhaps you read the softcover version of
]the manga. The wideban has a few extra panels and dialogue that really
]help clear things up.
What! I didn't know the wide-version tankoubon "has a few extra panels and
dialogue", just as few Gundam fans know Tetsujin 28-Go guest-appeared in the
Gundam:TOS final episode.
If what you wrote is true, who are and what happens in those extra panels?
Donny CHAN
In article <4q22k0$h...@news1.ucsd.edu>,
pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) wrote:
]Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
]: If the movie is wrong, as you claim, then why does Matsumoto chose to
]: follow the movie for Shin KOR, instead of the happy jolly ending of the
manga?
]
]Do you know for sure it was Matsumoto's choice. I have heard that the
]novel was actually written by the other named author - I forgot his name.
]
]Jolly ending? Hardly.
I know there are manga-based novels written by certain authors and have
Donny CHAN
In article <1996061610565073628@[202.230.39.193]>,
sei...@mail.wind.co.jp (Peter) wrote:
]They were making a bold stroke. They were ENDING the friendship. CRASH!!
]"Watashi...mo, 3-nin de irarenain da ne..." The only thing I had to say
]about the movie was, where are the motiffs we want: hat, playground,
]Yusaku? The powers can stay out, since it's about the people, not the
]powers.
As a Hard-KOR fan, I like every aspect of the KOR movie except one. I like the
KOR background. I like the KOR characters and their interrelation. I like the
KOR character's voice actors. I like the BGM and songs composed by Sagisu
Shirou. Et cetera. The only exception I dislike is its plot, realistic or not.
The first time I watch the KOR movie, I thought, and I believe many KOR
readers mellowed by the manga ending shared this thought: it's too bad to be
true. As I said before, the manga ended one way, while the anime
(TV+OVA+movie) ended another way. No problemo. Anyone who's read the Star Trek
newsgroups would understand how controversial a discussion about the
inconsistencies amongst different medium of presentation of the same series
can be; not to mention the EVA discussion here in r.a.a.misc. ^^; So I live
and let live. I dislike the plot of the KOR movie, but it's KOR nonetheless.
]Did you read the KOR novel? If you deny the the KOR movie you have to
I only read the English translation.
]deny the KOR novels, too, and that's pretty hard to do since they're
]"tight" and good. Pyramid Murder Mystery is also good. You will all get
]it soon as soon as I have a free hand.
If Matsumoto-sensei treats the KOR movie ending as canon, jolly good. If he
doesn't treat it as canon, jolly good too. <Shrug>
]Have you discussed this with Patty Duffield? She was the one who got our
]whole club into KOR, and she, was in Japan to watch the KOR movie at its
]premier (lucky stiff). She agrees with you.
Negative.
Brian Castleberry
Wei Xiong wrote:
> pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>
>> I remember you saying that before but I don't remember being convinced
>> by the points you brought up to support your statement. Consider the
>> following situation:
>>
>> You discover that the person that you have been in love with for three
>> years has not been totally honest with you about his/her true
>> feelings. In fact, the truth hurts a LOT. Which would be the more
>> realistic reaction:
>
>> a. Stalk that person, chasing him/her around, hoping you can somehow
>> change the situation.
>
>> b. Do something else.
>
>> Personally, I find Choice A. above, which is the course taken in the
>> movie, to be highly unrealistic.
>
> Believe or not, I've seen the scenerio happen to a couple friends.
> And many people will tell you they have undergone similar situation.
> It all goes down to not believing the relationship is over.
> Four years of attachment is difficult to let go, especially so sudden.
It wouldn't be unbelievable for Hikaru to act the way she did in the KOR
movie, but it goes against the grain of the character originally created
by Matsumoto Izumi in the KOR manga...
[MASSIVE MANGA, ANIME, AND MOVIE SPOILERS BELOW]
This is where you have to remember just what has happened -
I. Manga - It has taken four years (9th-12th grade) for Kyousuke to
finally admit his love to Madoka, and that only happened after _Manami_
took the responsibility and told Hikaru what she knows. Madoka hasn't
said how she feels yet. So what is everybody's mindset at this point?
a. Kyousuke - regretful that Hikaru is in so much pain, knowing that he
is responsible; worried that Madoka will go to America anyway after his
confession.
b. Madoka - regretful that Hikaru is in so much pain, feeling that she
is also responsible; willing to sacrifice her happiness for her; still
(supposedly) wanting to stay with Kyousuke despite her impending
sacrifice.
c. Hikaru - blissfully ignorant of the whole thing until she is told,
then devastated that her best friend and her "boyfriend" have liked each
other for 4 years without telling her.
Now compare this to the anime TV series/movie:
II. Anime TV/Movie - After knowing each other for a year in 9th grade,
Madoka and Kyousuke confess their love for each other.
a. Kyousuke - thrilled to have told Madoka his feelings, but delays
telling Hikaru (until they are about to take college entrance exams -
almost 3 years) until it almost wrecks his relationship with Madoka.
b. Madoka - thrilled to have told Kyousuke her feelings, but wants
Kyousuke to tell Hikaru how he feels about her or it's over.
c. Hikaru - suspicious that Kyousuke likes somebody else (possibly even
Madoka). When Kyousuke coldly rejects her, she is so much not surprised
as angry that he chose Madoka over her, and becomes obsessed beyond the
point of reason trying to get him back.
Now - in the manga, when Hikaru confronts them in the airport before
Madoka leaves for America, she only slaps Kyousuke. She seems to do this
for two reasons -
1. She needs to release her pent-up anger at him - and while she
probably could clean his clock, she just slaps him. Remember that she
tells him to grit his teeth before she slaps him? It's not that she
doesn't _love_ him, she just doesn't _like_ him at the time.
2. Doing this, in front of all of his friends and family, would be
utterly humiliating. I'm sure that she wanted him to feel a taste of the
humiliation she felt at his treatment of her.
In the anime/movie, Hikaru goes through a succession of scenes in which
she tries to charm, bribe, and beg her way back into Kyousuke's heart.
When he rebuffs her again and again, she angrily demands to know why they
can't even be friends. (Kyousuke's actions are, IMHO, totally out of
character - he would have tried, at the very least, to explain himself
when he broke it off with Hikaru.)
Notice the difference - in the anime, she feels Kyousuke was stolen from
her, but in the manga, she realizes that he had never been hers in the
first place. This difference would account for the different actions of
the two Hikarus. Each would be valid for the Hikaru in that KOR universe.
As for which is canon - well, the manga was written by Matsumoto, before
anyone else was involved, alone. The anime was screenplayed by Terada
Kenji and Shizuya Isao and was loosely based on Matsumoto's manga. The
movie was written by Terada and directed by Mochizuki Tomomichi, with no
basis in the manga or assistance from Matsumoto. ShinKOR I and II were
outlined by Matsumoto while the actual text was written by Terada.
You decide whose story to believe.
Brian
*************************************************************************
Brian Castleberry
Proud Member of the Manami-chan International Fan Club \^_^/
(and the Miki-chan Universal Fan Club, too!) ^_^) <-ponytail! :)
cac...@netdoor.com
http://www2.netdoor.com/~cacklz/kor.html
"Anime is Japan's greatest ambassador in America." - Karen Duffy
****Support the KOR Laserdisc Petition! Details are located at****
http://www.netvoyage.net/~bkogawa/anime/kor.html
Paolo Valladolid
Sir Alby (al...@slip.net) wrote:
: > a. Chase person who dumped you and beg them to reconsider.
: The point is not that you chase the person and beg them to reconsider.
: The point is that you deny the person ever dumped you. You just go
: right on acting as if nothing ever happened. If I recall correctly, the
: movie Hikaru never asks Kasuga to take her back. She just acts as if he
: hadn't broken up with her. She goes right on audtioning and practicing
: for the show, fixes him lunches, and calls him for dates, as if nothing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: had happened.
Yes she is in denial _and_ she chases him.
: I agree that for somebody to chase the person who just dumped
: them and ask to be taken back is a little unrealistic. Unless, of
: course, you have one of those psycho guys who stalks the person who
: dumped them and kills them.
Hikaru (anime version) did strike me as being a bit psycho so in that sense
her actions in the movie are consistent with her personality. But this would
not be the case with manga Hikaru.
: > b. Cry and never speak to that person again.
: >
: Yes, this also happens. Just doesn't seem like Hikaru of the TV
: version would do that. Do you agree with this?
Definitely. Conversely, Manga Hikaru would, realistically, never do a.
Please don't be misled by someone's statement that the manga has a happy,
unrealistic ending. I can assure you it is FAR from a happy ending. A
bittersweet one at best.
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn
I've read all of the posts on this thread that I've started ("I've
created a monster!")
I haven't read the manga ending yet, but I plan to, so I won't and
haven't read any of the spoilers. But this I do know, in regard to
the realisticness of the movie.
Hikaru's actions and Kasuga's actions were very real to me. I didn't
really understand Madoka's actions, but it was Hikaru's actions that
were heart wrenching for me.
Especially when she says that she won't let him go, and when he asks
why, she replies with chilling truth and fear, that he'll leave her.
That really got me.
The other thing that got me was when Hikaru was talking with Madoka
about it. She said that she knew all along, so she wasn't really
surprised, except for the fact that Kasuga kissed her, and she saw
that as a sign of his final dedication to her. But when she was
talking with Madoka, she said that it was unfair. Here she was doing
all this stuff to earn his love, and Madoka didn't do a thing. And
this was the clincher, she said, "I can do anything! If it is for
him, I can do anything!" Then she leaves. Now, my friends, *that* is
love.
But I also understood Kasuga's position. This whole time he's been
trying to be nice, but he realized that the longer he was "nice" the
more Hikaru and Madoka would be hurt. So he decided (with Madoka's
gentle prodding) to finally come clean. He knew it would hurt her,
and it hurt him to know that. I think that's why he came off as so
cold. If he let the slightest bit of warmth out, both he and Hikaru
would fall into the trap again. He hated himself for doing what he
had to do, but he had to do it.
Madoka was pretty understanding. She gave him support every step of
the way, and most importantly, as I'm sure most of the guys out there
will understand, she believed and trusted him. Those were her words
to him on that bridge. That is probably the most important thing for
a guy to have from a girl.
I thought the movie was very realistic, especially considering their
characters. That's why it is now my favorite anime of all time.
Perhaps even more than Dragonball??? Let me think about that a little
more...^o^
Eric
Donny CHAN
In article <31C5D3...@netdoor.com>,
Brian Castleberry <cac...@netdoor.com> wrote:
*Munch*
Thanks very much for the review of the circumstances of the manga and anime
endings!
]As for which is canon - well, the manga was written by Matsumoto, before
]anyone else was involved, alone. The anime was screenplayed by Terada
Well, there was also the roomful of assistants without whom the KOR manga
wouldn't have looked so attractive.
]Kenji and Shizuya Isao and was loosely based on Matsumoto's manga. The
]movie was written by Terada and directed by Mochizuki Tomomichi, with no
]basis in the manga or assistance from Matsumoto. ShinKOR I and II were
]outlined by Matsumoto while the actual text was written by Terada.
]You decide whose story to believe.
To me, the manga ending.
Aceze
In article <4q2hci$5...@news.inforamp.net>,
Donny CHAN <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote:
[cut]
>]As to your refusal to admit that the movie is the "real" ending,
>]remember that Matsumoto and Terada WROTE it. It's as cannon as the
>
>Just curious: Can someone check the credits of the KOR movie?
It was screenplayed by Terada Kenji so technically... Although I do tend
to follow the movie as "what actually happened" moreso than the manga for
the simple fact that I've never read the manga!! ^_^;;
Also, add to the fact, that if the movie had been less devastating, I would
be a lesser fan today...
>Anyway, I belong to the Madoka faction of KOR fans, aka the Darling-haters.
>(Wah, a flamebait. Does any KOR fan in r.a.a.misc still belong to the Hikaru
>faction?) In the manga, I morbidly like when bad things happen to Hikaru-chan.
>But in the movie, though I know her doom was inevitable, I admit I felt sorry
>for her. After reading her and other KOR characters' lives for three years
>(real time), despite she's a fictional character, Hikaru-chan has feelings
>too.
Heeeyyyy, _I'M_ part of the pro-Hikaru crusade! Step lightly now, for you tread
on da-angerous ground....! ^_^;; But hey, I'm more of a pro-everyone-in-KOR
anyways...
>| Asagiri Yohko Genmu Senki LEDA Tsuru Hiromi |
>| Ayukawa Madoka Kimagure ORANGE ROAD Tsuru Hiromi |
I found it funny actually, when I found out that the girl in Demon City Shinjuku
was VA'ed by Hiromi Tsuru... (which I found to be an almost unbearably hokey
show... albeit Mephisto was funny...)
Hey, if anyone likes, check out "yet-another-bunch-o-anime-pages" at my site...
where "yet-another-KOR-site" resides! ^_^;;
Yet another tangent-filled post by
AcEzE
(ps. Anyone know if VFkids is in YYZ yet?)
--
Shahir Al Rashid @ Information Commons Help Desk @ UofToronto
==============================================================
Mail: shahir....@utoronto.ca / ac...@interlog.com
Quiddity Awaits: http://www.interlog.com/~aceze
Donny CHAN
In article <Dt7vr...@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>,
alra...@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Aceze) wrote:
]Heeeyyyy, _I'M_ part of the pro-Hikaru crusade! Step lightly now, for you
tread
Hikaru-haters unite, et cetera, et cetera.
]on da-angerous ground....! ^_^;; But hey, I'm more of a pro-everyone-in-KOR
]anyways...
Even Akane, Hirose Sayuri, and Kazuya?
]>| Asagiri Yohko Genmu Senki LEDA Tsuru Hiromi |
]>| Ayukawa Madoka Kimagure ORANGE ROAD Tsuru Hiromi |
]
]I found it funny actually, when I found out that the girl in Demon City
Shinjuku
]was VA'ed by Hiromi Tsuru... (which I found to be an almost unbearably hokey
]show... albeit Mephisto was funny...)
I don't watch horror and porno anime, but I'm willing to sample one episode or
volume of any anime the cast of which include Hiromi-sama. Hmm, should I or
shouldn't I rent and watch Demon City Shinjuku...? 8(
*OFF-TOPIC ALERT*
](ps. Anyone know if VFkids is in YYZ yet?)
VF Kids is out in Vancouver, but not in Toronto yet. On the other paw,
Virtual-On is out in Toronto--at Fairview. My first impression of Virtual-On:
Though I'm a Gundam fan, I'm not very impressed.
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| crs...@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) |
| University of Toronto Mechanical Engineering 9T3+1 ERTW |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Don "Gamera" Chan's Top Three Anime Girls |
| |
| Name Anime Seiyuu |
| |
| Asagiri Yohko Genmu Senki LEDA Tsuru Hiromi |
| Ayukawa Madoka Kimagure ORANGE ROAD Tsuru Hiromi |
Brian Castleberry
Donny CHAN wrote:
> Thanks very much for the review of the circumstances of the manga and anime
> endings!
You're welcome. I figure that people tend to forget the facts when they argue
passionately for their cause, so I wanted to remind everybody that while both
KOR universes are valid, some parts are _not_ interchangeable.
>> As for which is canon - well, the manga was written by Matsumoto, before
>> anyone else was involved, alone. The anime was screenplayed by Terada
>
> Well, there was also the roomful of assistants without whom the KOR manga
> wouldn't have looked so attractive.
Including the ever-present Assistant H, who pops up in the manga quite often...
but Matsumoto wrote the _story_ himself.
> ]Kenji and Shizuya Isao and was loosely based on Matsumoto's manga. The
> ]movie was written by Terada and directed by Mochizuki Tomomichi, with no
> ]basis in the manga or assistance from Matsumoto. ShinKOR I and II were
> ]outlined by Matsumoto while the actual text was written by Terada.
> ]You decide whose story to believe.
>
> To me, the manga ending.
I would agree. It's more balanced, and allows Hikaru to exit with the small
degree of dignity she was denied in the movie.
Not to mention the manga gives the juiciest plum of a role in the end to
Manami-chan! (She always was the responsible one... and cute, too! \^_^/)
Wei Xiong
sei...@mail.wind.co.jp (Peter) writes:
>I like the plot, although as I said, I wouldn't have minded seeing some
>of the images we expect to see: the hat, Yuusaku [who still has yet to
>turn up anywhere, he is not mentioned at all in the 2nd KOR novel], that
>sort of thing. Oo, maybe re-animation of the first scene of the series
>with movie-quality animation would have been cool.
Or maybe the last scene of the TV series.
Ian Macrae
Read the graphic novel for KOR II.
Aceze
In article <4q94p3$c...@news.inforamp.net>,
Donny CHAN <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>In article <Dt7vr...@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>,
> alra...@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Aceze) wrote:
>]Heeeyyyy, _I'M_ part of the pro-Hikaru crusade! Step lightly now, for you
>tread
>Hikaru-haters unite, et cetera, et cetera.
Hey!! ^_^;; Anti-Hikaru-haters uni... hello? hello-hello-hel-he-h (echo)
>]on da-angerous ground....! ^_^;; But hey, I'm more of a pro-everyone-in-KOR
>]anyways...
>
>Even Akane, Hirose Sayuri, and Kazuya?
Well, Akane, she's just err misunderstood, yeah that's it! And yes, I like
Kazuya (although, like almost every kid, he _can_ be a little unbearable
sometimes...) But (forgive my ignorance), who's Hirose Sayuri??
[cut]
>I don't watch horror and porno anime, but I'm willing to sample one episode or
>volume of any anime the cast of which include Hiromi-sama. Hmm, should I or
>shouldn't I rent and watch Demon City Shinjuku...? 8(
Well, if it's only a rental, go ahead! Very nice ani quality, effects etc...
The only bad thing is the storyline (VERY cheesy) and the suspension-of-belief
factor is reeeaaally stretched (much too far for a "serious" type movie).
A much better movie (from roughly the same crew) is Supernatural Beast City
(but since you dont watch horror anime....)...
*OFF-TOPIC ALERT*
>](ps. Anyone know if VFkids is in YYZ yet?)
>
>VF Kids is out in Vancouver, but not in Toronto yet. On the other paw,
>Virtual-On is out in Toronto--at Fairview. My first impression of Virtual-On:
>Though I'm a Gundam fan, I'm not very impressed.
Fairview huh? Maybe I'll schlep on up there... Not _really_ that interested
in Virtua-on though... Yeah, I knew VFkids was in Vancouver, but I was hoping
it was in Scarborough 'r sumthin... *waaah* (fountain of tears from my Kage...)
Something to wait for 'till VF3...
AcEzE
Peter
Donny CHAN <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote:
> As a Hard-KOR fan, I like every aspect of the KOR movie except one. I like the
> KOR background. I like the KOR characters and their interrelation. I like the
> KOR character's voice actors. I like the BGM and songs composed by Sagisu
> Shirou. Et cetera. The only exception I dislike is its plot, realistic or not.
> The first time I watch the KOR movie, I thought, and I believe many KOR
> readers mellowed by the manga ending shared this thought: it's too bad to be
> true. As I said before, the manga ended one way, while the anime
> (TV+OVA+movie) ended another way. No problemo. Anyone who's read the Star Trek
> newsgroups would understand how controversial a discussion about the
> inconsistencies amongst different medium of presentation of the same series
> can be; not to mention the EVA discussion here in r.a.a.misc. ^^; So I live
> and let live. I dislike the plot of the KOR movie, but it's KOR nonetheless.
I like the plot, although as I said, I wouldn't have minded seeing some
of the images we expect to see: the hat, Yuusaku [who still has yet to
turn up anywhere, he is not mentioned at all in the 2nd KOR novel], that
sort of thing. Oo, maybe re-animation of the first scene of the series
with movie-quality animation would have been cool.
> ]deny the KOR novels, too, and that's pretty hard to do since they're
> ]"tight" and good. Pyramid Murder Mystery is also good. You will all get
> ]it soon as soon as I have a free hand.
>
> If Matsumoto-sensei treats the KOR movie ending as canon, jolly good. If he
> doesn't treat it as canon, jolly good too. <Shrug>
I'd say he does, since he wrote (all? part?) of the KOR movie, with
Terada, and also both of the novels with Terada.
Peter
Donny CHAN <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote:
> Anyway, I belong to the Madoka faction of KOR fans, aka the Darling-haters.
> (Wah, a flamebait. Does any KOR fan in r.a.a.misc still belong to the Hikaru
> faction?) In the manga, I morbidly like when bad things happen to Hikaru-chan.
> But in the movie, though I know her doom was inevitable, I admit I felt sorry
> for her. After reading her and other KOR characters' lives for three years
> (real time), despite she's a fictional character, Hikaru-chan has feelings
> too.
Hmm. I like the way the movie puts a grown-up spin on things at the end,
though. I mean, they were kids, and they had to grow up. (Oh, I am
getting deep again, someone stop me.) So, the movie showed that they had
crossed an important watershed. I like the novels even more for treating
us and the characters more like adults, having sex instead of all those
Matsumoto-esque teasers. (I did hate the hotel room bit in the first
novel, grrr....)
Donny CHAN
In article <DtBAo...@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>,
alra...@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Aceze) wrote:
]sometimes...) But (forgive my ignorance), who's Hirose Sayuri??
A girl who attended Kyousuke's school in the KOR manga. Her specialty was
dumping boys who admired her and tried to date her. She was surprised that her
charm didn't work on Kyousuke, and that Kyousuke had a girlfriend who was as
beautiful and capable as Madoka-sama. Sayuri was another trouble-making
sub-character like Kazuya and Yuusaku.
DANIEL E. PIKE
I was deeply moved by the movie. I watched it 6 times, and wrote
in my journal "how beautiful, how sad, how hopeful. Filled with
the contradictions of youth..." But that was when I had only seen
the OAVs and the movies. In a way, the movie made sense as a way
of resolving the triangle, but it just didn't quite ring true.
In 1994 I went to Japan, with no other purpose in mind than to
get the KOR manga and TV episodes. Well, getting the complete
manga collection wasn,t easy, and the TV eps proved impossible.
The ending in the manga (back on the 99 or 1100 steps or what have
you, is very nice closure for a literary work. The movie ending
is much more dramatic, but has nothing to do with the manga.
Izumi Matsumoto has always proclaimed himself a writer, rather than
a manga artist (although he started out quite crude, there is
a great deal of improvement over the course of the KOR manga)
it was the character designs of S Akemi Tadaka that really got
western audiences (like me ) hooked.
At any rate, just try to look at them as the same characters in different universes
The manga ends with Ayukawa and Kyosuke confessing their love
at the top of the 991/2 steps, and the movie ends (begins) with
their getting accepted to college, which is where the Shin-KOR
novel begins.
So go figure. There are infinite universes out there in the
imagination, why can't they all be true?
Donny CHAN
*OFF-TOPIC ALERT*
In article <4qidso$k...@news.asu.edu>,
pi...@aztec.asu.edu (DANIEL E. PIKE) wrote:
]So go figure. There are infinite universes out there in the
]imagination, why can't they all be true?
Ah, the Vulcan doctrine of infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
david l burkhead
In article <4q23jp$h...@news1.ucsd.edu> pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
>Here's another strike against the movie for lack of realism:
>
>The Madoka-Hikaru confrontation.
>
>Hikaru may have had a four-year relationship with Kyousuke, but she and
>Madoka have a much longer and deeper relationship than that. Can a 16-year
>old friendship end with a short, abrupt conversation?
>
I think you and I have been over this ground before on the KOR
ML, have we not? ;)
I don't think their friendship _did_ end with that. There are
some open wounds, and a great deal of pain, leading to some harsh
words. In the triangle with Kyousuke, as long as Madoka was in the
picture, Hikaru never had a chance. (Not that Kyousuke didn't love
Hikaru, just not in the same way or to the same degree as he loved
Madoka--but he was so uncertain about Madoka's feelings for _him_ that
he really couldn't commit to her for risk of losing all--and that very
uncertainty may well have been a key part of his growing feeling for
Madoka, but that's another story). The final realization that Hikaru
had lost was going to be painful no matter what. However, once the
immediate pain has died down, once the wounds had begun to heal, I
think they would find the friendship still there. Friends sometimes
hurt each other. Learning that, and getting past it, is part of
growing up. And one thing in the movie is that it's the source of a
_lot_ of Hikaru's growing up. She had remained essentially a kid
through the entire TV series. Only here, indeed only in the last
parts of the movie, where she's finally starting to move on with her
life, is she starting to grow up.
--
David L. Burkhead "If I had eight hours to cut down
dav...@dax.cc.uakron.edu a tree, I'd spend seven sharpening
FAX: 330-253-4490 my axe." Attributed to Abraham
SpaceCub Lincoln
Sir Alby
david l burkhead wrote:
>
> In article <4q23jp$h...@news1.ucsd.edu> pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) writes:
> >Here's another strike against the movie for lack of realism:
> >
> >The Madoka-Hikaru confrontation.
> >
> >Hikaru may have had a four-year relationship with Kyousuke, but she and
> >Madoka have a much longer and deeper relationship than that. Can a 16-year
> >old friendship end with a short, abrupt conversation?
> >
> >For your consideration.
>
> I think you and I have been over this ground before on the KOR
> ML, have we not? ;)
>
> I don't think their friendship _did_ end with that. There are
> some open wounds, and a great deal of pain, leading to some harsh
> words.
Really? I thought their friendship ended. At least that's what I'll continue
to believe cause it makes the story so much sadder and sweeter.
I can see them eventually become casual acquaintances again (say "Hi" if they
ran into each other, and that's it) but not close friends again. In that
sense, their real friendship ends and only a shell of it remains.
Yes, I do think a friendship can end with a short confrontation like that.
It's one thing to be in denial about the guy she loves. But it's very easy to
hate the other person who got in the way. Madoka was Hikaru's most trusted and
closest friend. She was practically a sister to her. To have her trust
betrayed like that is pretty devastating. Madoka wasn't just some classmate or
love rival. She was for all intents and purposes Hikaru's sister.
I don't even think the friendship just ended suddenly. From the moment Kasuga
told Hikaru the truth, their friendship died. The confrontation at the end
with Madoka was just for closure. It was the official breaking up of a
friendship that had already died long before.
Paolo Vallado
: Hmm. I like the way the movie puts a grown-up spin on things at the end,
: though. I mean, they were kids, and they had to grow up. (Oh, I am
: getting deep again, someone stop me.) So, the movie showed that they had
: crossed an important watershed. I like the novels even more for treating
: us and the characters more like adults, having sex instead of all those
: Matsumoto-esque teasers. (I did hate the hotel room bit in the first
Well, KOR wasn't meant to be ecchi. There are plenty of other titles for
you if you want that kind of thing.
Paolo Vallado
: > Come on, there isn't even any focus on Madoka and Kyosuke in the manga
: > ending. There's no kokuhaku, no "Ore no ho koso, ore no ho
Come again? _No_ focus on Madoka and Kyousuke in the manga ending?
Could it be you missed the rather long conversation they had after a long
search for Madoka by Kyousuke throughout the city?
Paolo Vallado
: I think you and I have been over this ground before on the KOR
: ML, have we not? ;)
You know, I don't remember....
: Madoka, but that's another story). The final realization that Hikaru
: had lost was going to be painful no matter what. However, once the
: immediate pain has died down, once the wounds had begun to heal, I
: think they would find the friendship still there. Friends sometimes
I suppose it may or may not but the movie didn't show it.
But I still find the movie resolution/ending of the Madoka/Hikaru
relationship to be rather abrupt. In comparison to the manga, that is.
Freddy Chan
Paolo Vallado (pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu) wrote:
: I suppose it may or may not but the movie didn't show it.
: But I still find the movie resolution/ending of the Madoka/Hikaru
: relationship to be rather abrupt. In comparison to the manga, that is.
The good news is the new KOR movie is coming out this fall, so you can
find out what happened a few years later to Madoka, Kyosuke and Hikaru
once again.
Freddy
Wei Xiong
khc...@csulb.edu (Freddy Chan) writes:
>Paolo Vallado (pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu) wrote:
Sheesh,
I didn't like the "new" looks.
Check out http://www.hkstar.com/~gotoh/anime/kor.html for a few scans of the
movie poster.
If I didn't know what I was looking for, I would have no clue who they are.
Donny CHAN
In article <4r8qho$p...@hatathli.csulb.edu>,
khc...@csulb.edu (Freddy Chan) wrote:
] The good news is the new KOR movie is coming out this fall, so you can
]find out what happened a few years later to Madoka, Kyosuke and Hikaru
]once again.
I wonder which group of voice actors will it use: the TV cast (post-Jump
Special OVA), or the new KOR Original cast?
Freddy Chan
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: Sheesh,
: I didn't like the "new" looks.
: Check out http://www.hkstar.com/~gotoh/anime/kor.html for a few scans of the
: movie poster.
: If I didn't know what I was looking for, I would have no clue who they are.
For more info and pics, buy the latest issue of Animedia.
Well, the character designer has changed to the person who did Zillion
and Video Girl Ai. Plus the characters in this movie are grown up now,
they are all around 22 years old. The new Madoka looked too mature, kinda
liked a house-wife to me ^_^;
Freddy
Sir Alby
Wei Xiong wrote:
> Sheesh,
> I didn't like the "new" looks.
> Check out http://www.hkstar.com/~gotoh/anime/kor.html for a few scans of the
> movie poster.
>
> If I didn't know what I was looking for, I would have no clue who they are.
Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. I don't know whether I should be happy or sad. I'm
happy there's more Orange Road. I'm unhappy they butchered the characters so.
Especially Hikaru. Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. Breathe. Breathe.
Ah, that's better. I hope I don't have to take out the favorite anime bit from my
sig because of this. Still, there is a glimmer of hope that maybe it'll be good.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Freddy Chan
Donny CHAN (crs...@inforamp.net) wrote:
: I wonder which group of voice actors will it use: the TV cast (post-Jump
: Special OVA), or the new KOR Original cast?
Original cast from TV, OVA or movie.
Freddy
Brian Doss
>
> The good news is the new KOR movie is coming out this fall, so you can
> find out what happened a few years later to Madoka, Kyosuke and Hikaru
> once again.
>
Exqueeze me?? the new KOR movie is coming out?? 1996??
Incredulous
Brian Doss
> Sheesh,
> I didn't like the "new" looks.
> Check out http://www.hkstar.com/~gotoh/anime/kor.html for a few scans of the
> movie poster.
I don't agree... sure, the first scan took me by surprise, but its not
hard to get used to. Her eyes are a little bigger and the face a bit
more "squished" (rounded I guess is the better term).
The other pictures I thought were perfect, actually. Madoka kinda
looks like the evil mistress in 3x3 Eyes #1 (woo!), gotta love it when
Anime chicks get lips. ^_^
I think the rest of them look like what I would expect from a 22 year
old Kasuga and a 20 year old Hikaru... one would think they would
change rather strikingly from 16 year old forms...
Brian
Brian Doss
> I wonder which group of voice actors will it use: the TV cast (post-Jump
> Special OVA), or the new KOR Original cast?
it HAS to be the TV cast, or else it's just not KOR! Especially if
they do the unthinkable and NOT like Tsuru Hiromi do Madoka's voice.
HERESY!!!
They may change Hikaru's voice, but a lot of that was a put-on anyways
to sound REALLY young. I think Hara Eriko can do a 20-year old's voice
fine (she sounded fine as Susan Sommers in Venus Wars). And who else
could do Kasuga's voice? Nobody I can think of offhand (certainly not
Tenchi's voice actor- thats Yuhsaku anyways).
If they got different voice actors, it would be a travesty! It
wouldn't really be KOR then... :(
Brian
John H Bogan Jr
On Jul 01, 1996 15:23:36 in article <Re: Orange Road ending>,
'khc...@csulb.edu (Freddy Chan)' wrote:
>The good news is the new KOR movie is coming out this fall, so you can
>find out what happened a few years later to Madoka, Kyosuke and Hikaru
>once again.
--
John H Bogan Jr jbo...@pipeline.com
No building is so tall that even a small dog
can't lift it's leg on it.
--- Jim Hightower
Donny CHAN
In article <4rce1c$e...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>,
jbo...@nyc.pipeline.com(John H Bogan Jr) wrote:
]On Jul 01, 1996 15:23:36 in article <Re: Orange Road ending>,
]'khc...@csulb.edu (Freddy Chan)' wrote:
]
]>The good news is the new KOR movie is coming out this fall, so you can
]>find out what happened a few years later to Madoka, Kyosuke and Hikaru
]>once again.
]
]Cool! A whole new era of endless arguments!
And the revival of the skirmishes in r.a.a between the pro-Madoka KOR fans and
the pro-Hikaru KOR fans?
Don "Darling-haters unite!" Chan
Donny CHAN
In article <31D950...@mail.vt.edu>, Brian Doss <bd...@mail.vt.edu> wrote:
]The other pictures I thought were perfect, actually. Madoka kinda
]Anime chicks get lips. ^_^
"The evil mistress"? Did you mean Madame Huang?
Paolo Vallado
In an attempt to lighten the mood on this thread...
What if the Kimagure Orange Road Movie were directed by:
Miyazaki Hayao
Madoka would look like Muta Rikako (Umi Ga Kikoeru). Hikaru would look
like a blonde Shizuku (Mimi Wo Sumaseba). Kyousuke would look like an older
Asbel/Pazu (Nausicaa/Laputa). There would be lots of flight scenes.
While there would be a nice touch of bittersweet drama accompanying the
end of the love triangle (compare with similarly "sad" parts from Tonari
no Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, etc.) the resolution would be an
idealistically happy one in Miyazaki's inimitable style. Closing credits
would roll over a final scene of Madoka and Kyousuke sailing away in one
balloon and Hikaru and Yuusaku in another to the theme of "Orange Road"
("Country Road" with the lyrics changed).
Tarantino Quentin
Upon being rejected by Kyousuke, Hikaru heads for Disco Moebius to get
drunk. Yuusaku finds her there drinking heavily and snorting coke in
between dancing drunkenly to classic American r&b tunes. After Hikaru
collapses, a frantic Yuusaku drags her to Komatsu's house where he,
Komatsu, and Hatta curse and panic until they decide to let Yuusaku
attempt reviving Hikaru by stabbing her heart with a syringe. The next
day, Hikaru uses her old gang connections to purchase a gun... The
climactic showdown features Hikaru and Madoka both pointing guns at each
other.
Oshii Mamouru
Kyousuke and Madoka spend a lot of time walking together at night by the
harbor while spouting philosophical views on modern Japanese society.
Meanwhile, Hikaru and Yuusaku are kidnapped and fitted with brain implants
that drive them to steal new prototype machines called "Pat Labors" and
terrorize the city.
Peter
Paolo Vallado <pval...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> : On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Peter wrote:
> : > Come on, there isn't even any focus on Madoka and Kyosuke in the manga
> : > ending. There's no kokuhaku, no "Ore no ho koso, ore no ho
>
> Come again? _No_ focus on Madoka and Kyousuke in the manga ending?
> Could it be you missed the rather long conversation they had after a long
> search for Madoka by Kyousuke throughout the city?
I know, but it's small, not dramatic, wishy-washy. The manga ending
suffers from Kyosuke-byo, yuujuufudan.
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn
Well, I have just finished reading the manga of Orange Road.
I liked it a lot, however, I must say it was far less dramatic than
the movie. Actually they're not even close to the same! That's kind
of annoying. But I must say that Madoka's actions in the manga are
more consistent with her character, as portrayed in the manga, than
her actions in the movie. Also Hikaru's actions are more consistent.
I liked how in the manga, you could see Madoka changing and being more
jealous and attached to Kyosuke. Also that flashback/time travel
thing, or whatever you want to call it where Kyosuke meets Madoka six
years before and they kiss and she buys that hat, kind of helps to tie
everything together. I didn't know that there would be so much
significance in that hat. Actually, I don't think Kyosuke thought so
either!
But the end where she finally comes back from America and he asks her
how she feels, she says that she likes him, but it is a like very
close to love is kind of cheezy. I wish that she would have just
said that she loved him. That would validate the kiss more.
One gripe, though. Nothing on how the relationship between the three
of them will continue. It doesn't tell us too much on how it will be,
will they still continue to hang out together? Does Hikaru get
together with her childhood friend, that weird guy? I don't know his
name in Japanese, only in Korean.
Answers?
Eric
Brian Castleberry
[MANGA SPOILERS BELOW]
Eric Kyungsuk Kimn wrote:
> Well, I have just finished reading the manga of Orange Road.
>
> I liked it a lot, however, I must say it was far less dramatic than
> the movie. Actually they're not even close to the same! That's kind
> of annoying. But I must say that Madoka's actions in the manga are
> more consistent with her character, as portrayed in the manga, than
> her actions in the movie. Also Hikaru's actions are more consistent.
Matsumoto does treat his characters much more fairly in the manga than
Terada did in the TV series and movie, especially Hikaru. Their actions
are more consistent with their personalities. (Hey - did you like
Manami's role in the resolution of the triangle? :)
> But the end where she finally comes back from America and he asks her
> how she feels, she says that she likes him, but it is a like very
> close to love is kind of cheezy. I wish that she would have just
> said that she loved him. That would validate the kiss more.
For these two characters, it works. Hey, it took them 4 years to admit
that they love each other - what else would you expect? ^_^
> One gripe, though. Nothing on how the relationship between the three
> of them will continue. It doesn't tell us too much on how it will be,
> will they still continue to hang out together? Does Hikaru get
> together with her childhood friend, that weird guy? I don't know his
> name in Japanese, only in Korean.
The two ShinKOR novels take place after the end of the manga - there is
an English translation out on the WWW for the first one, with one for the
second in the works - I don't know about a Korean one.
BTW, Hikaru's boyhood friend's name is Hino Yuusaku.
Brian
*************************************************************************
Brian Castleberry
Proud Member of the Manami-chan International Fan Club \^_^/
(and the Miki-chan Universal Fan Club, too!) ^_^) <-ponytail! :)
cac...@netdoor.com
http://www2.netdoor.com/~cacklz/kor.html
"Anime is Japan's greatest ambassador in America." - Karen Duffy
****Support the KOR Laserdisc Petition! Details are located at****
http://www.netvoyage.net/~bkogawa/anime/kor.html
Donny CHAN
*SPOILER ALERT*
In article <4rrfch$6...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
kyun...@ix.netcom.com (Eric Kyungsuk Kimn) wrote:
]I liked how in the manga, you could see Madoka changing and being more
]jealous and attached to Kyosuke. Also that flashback/time travel
]thing, or whatever you want to call it where Kyosuke meets Madoka six
]years before and they kiss and she buys that hat, kind of helps to tie
]everything together. I didn't know that there would be so much
]significance in that hat. Actually, I don't think Kyosuke thought so
]either!
I didn't know that either, until Manami-chan showed it to Hikaru-chan, and
Hikaru-chan explained it's Madoka-sama's most important possession.
]One gripe, though. Nothing on how the relationship between the three
]of them will continue. It doesn't tell us too much on how it will be,
]will they still continue to hang out together? Does Hikaru get
Hikaru-chan forgave Kyousuke in the end.
]together with her childhood friend, that weird guy? I don't know his
]name in Japanese, only in Korean.
Hino Yuusaku. I prefer him over the other furyou guy.
Don "Madoka Inochi" Chan
SAIN-ZEE UENG
Donny CHAN wrote:
>
> *SPOILER ALERT*
>
> In article <4rrfch$6...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
> kyun...@ix.netcom.com (Eric Kyungsuk Kimn) wrote:
> ]One gripe, though. Nothing on how the relationship between the three
> ]of them will continue. It doesn't tell us too much on how it will be,
> ]will they still continue to hang out together?
If you want to know what happened later on, there's been two books out,
novels w/ a few drawings, titled New KOR, that explains what happens to
the KOR cast
Sain-Zee Ueng
sain...@cory.eecs.bekeley.edu
Wei Xiong
kyun...@ix.netcom.com (Eric Kyungsuk Kimn) writes:
>I liked it a lot, however, I must say it was far less dramatic than
>the movie. Actually they're not even close to the same! That's kind
>of annoying. But I must say that Madoka's actions in the manga are
>more consistent with her character, as portrayed in the manga, than
>her actions in the movie. Also Hikaru's actions are more consistent.
Personally I think Hikaru's actions in the movie are very consistent with
her actions in the anime and manga.
>I liked how in the manga, you could see Madoka changing and being more
>jealous and attached to Kyosuke. Also that flashback/time travel
>thing, or whatever you want to call it where Kyosuke meets Madoka six
>years before and they kiss and she buys that hat, kind of helps to tie
>everything together. I didn't know that there would be so much
>significance in that hat. Actually, I don't think Kyosuke thought so
>either!
I take it that you haven't watched episodes 47 and 48 of the TV series.
That's what these two eps are about, a very nice wrap-up of the TV
series.
>But the end where she finally comes back from America and he asks her
>how she feels, she says that she likes him, but it is a like very
>close to love is kind of cheezy. I wish that she would have just
>said that she loved him. That would validate the kiss more.
Cheesy but appropriate under the circumstance.
>One gripe, though. Nothing on how the relationship between the three
>of them will continue. It doesn't tell us too much on how it will be,
>will they still continue to hang out together? Does Hikaru get
>together with her childhood friend, that weird guy? I don't know his
>name in Japanese, only in Korean.
Like someone said, there are two KOR novels, ShinKOR and ShinKOR 2. And
a movie is coming out, based on ShinKOR. Of course, there are always
fan fics, and in some, better written than the two official novels.
btw, the guy's name is Hino Yusaku.
paulcs
Wei Xiong wrote:
>
> kyun...@ix.netcom.com (Eric Kyungsuk Kimn) writes:
>
> >I liked it a lot, however, I must say it was far less dramatic than
> >the movie. Actually they're not even close to the same! That's kind
> >of annoying. But I must say that Madoka's actions in the manga are
> >more consistent with her character, as portrayed in the manga, than
> >her actions in the movie. Also Hikaru's actions are more consistent.
>
> Personally I think Hikaru's actions in the movie are very consistent with
> her actions in the anime and manga.
>
>
representation in the final chapters of the manga. This is going to be a bit long for a
newsgroup article. Thanks for your patience because I have to get this off my chest.
In the manga, Hikaru was clearly very distraught about Kyosuke's rejection. Her reaction
in the manga was more dignified. In the movie, Hikaru goes into denial. She continues to
call Kyosuke, follows him around, makes plans for dates, etc.
Kyosuke, if memory serves me correctly, breaks up with Hikaru in the movie. He is firm
with her when she refuses to accept the situation. In the manga, Manami, for all intents
and purposes, tells (actually, demonstrates to) Hikaru who Kyosuke really cares for.
Kyosuke, of course, panics when he finds out that the jig is up.
In the movie, Hikaru admits to knowing all along about Kyosuke's true feelings (more
denial!). The manga isn't quite as clear as to how much Hikaru really knew. She
suspected something, but this Modoka-business appears to be an very unpleasant
revelation.
In the manga, Hikaru admonishes Modoka for her part in the deception. Her
intentions were noble, but ultimately, she treated poor Hikaru like a child, not as a
friend. Hikaru resented this.
Because of Hikaru's long-term denial and extreme behavior, along with Kyosuke fessing up
and remaining firm, I felt the movie spread the blame around or, at the very least, let
him off the hook. In the manga, Kyosuke admits loudly, "THIS IS MY FAULT." And it was.
I loved the movie. It was just so sad, and I ate up every minute of it. (POOR HIKARU!
Pathos. Pathos. Pathos.) But at the end of the manga, I found Hikaru heroic. The
"heroic" Hikaru was VERY appealing. I also liked the manga's return to its beginning. A
red hat. 99 1/2 steps. What could be better?
Paolo Valladolid
Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: Personally I think Hikaru's actions in the movie are very consistent with
: her actions in the anime and manga.
Anime, yes. Manga, no. In the manga, she had more self-respect, and a
shorter temper.
Michael Parker
Help!!! I need HELP in traslating manga 36. I own a copy but I would
like to know if anyone has it translated yet. please send replies to
ran...@ix.netcom.com
THNAK YOU
paulcs
Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>
> Wei Xiong (wxi...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
> : Personally I think Hikaru's actions in the movie are very consistent with
> : her actions in the anime and manga.
>
> Anime, yes. Manga, no. In the manga, she had more self-respect, and a
> shorter temper.
>
> Paolo Valladolid - Fugawari Orange Street Fanfiction Project Member
I agree. More self-respect because she maintained her dignity and control. At the
airport, she clearly stated her objections to both Mokoka and Kyosuke and that slap in
the face was well-deserved (and satisfying).
This is an apples and oranges situation. I'm sure we all knew how the series was
going to end. The question is, how does one handle Modoka and Kyosuke finally
becoming a couple and, of course, Hikaru's reaction. The film was far more melodramatic
and, by design, "worked" its audience differently than the manga. I just loved "Hikaru's
last stand" at the airport in the manga. I admired both the character and the author for
it.
Sir Alby
paulcs wrote:
>
> I loved the movie. It was just so sad, and I ate up every minute of it. (POOR HIKARU!
> Pathos. Pathos. Pathos.) But at the end of the manga, I found Hikaru heroic. The
I found the movie Hikaru pretty heroic. She goes through with the stage production in the
lead role, even after all that happens to her. She initially did the Cats thing for
Kasuga, but she stuck with it. She managed to pick up her life. I found that heroic.
> "heroic" Hikaru was VERY appealing. I also liked the manga's return to its beginning. A
> red hat. 99 1/2 steps. What could be better?
>
--
Michael Parker
In <4s99q3$4...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> ran...@ix.netcom.com (Michael
Parker) writes:
>
>Help!!! I need HELP in traslating manga 36. I own a copy but I would
and where its at. please send replies to
>ran...@ix.netcom.com
>THNAK YOU
paulcs
Sir Alby wrote:
>
> I found the movie Hikaru pretty heroic. She goes through with the stage production in the
> lead role, even after all that happens to her. She initially did the Cats thing for
> Kasuga, but she stuck with it. She managed to pick up her life. I found that heroic.
>
(bang!). In the manga, however, Matsumoto Izumi has Hikaru put the key element of the
story line--four years of a clandestine psuedo-triangle--into perspective. Her
perspective. She is victimized but refuses to play the victim. At the story's end, we
get to bask in the afterglow of Modoka's and Kyosuke's new relationship, safe in the
knowledge that volatile little Hikaru has grown up and taught her older friends a thing
or two in the process.
I believe it is this sort of emotional complexity that sustains the popularity of the
manga, despite the fact that it began in 1984, finished eight years ago, and has never
been translated by an American publisher.
Favorite Manga: Kimagure Orange Road
Favorite Anime: My Neighbor Totoro (Fan subtitled version)
Donny CHAN
In article <31E970...@village.ios.com>,
paulcs <pau...@village.ios.com> wrote:
]I believe it is this sort of emotional complexity that sustains the
]manga, despite the fact that it began in 1984, finished eight years ago, and
has never
]been translated by an American publisher.
Unless you count the recent KOR special in Super Jump, the KOR *manga* ended
in 1987, not 1988.
paulcs
> Unless you count the recent KOR special in Super Jump, the KOR *manga* ended
> in 1987, not 1988.
Thanks Donny.
Regarding the recent KOR Special you refer to. Could you give more
details? I've "read" (with the help of Craig Nishida & Company's
wonderful translation) the 18 volume paperback reprinting of the series
and then backtracked to Volume 10 of the wideband when the revisions
became serious.
Was this special reprinted in a paperback collection? Has it been
translated? (Boy, I'll be embarassed if I already have it and just didn't
realize it while plowing through the series.)
Any help will be most appreciated.
Donny CHAN
In article <31EA91...@village.ios.com>,
paulcs <pau...@village.ios.com> wrote:
]Regarding the recent KOR Special you refer to. Could you give more
Unable. It was printed in Super Jump #10, published two months ago.
]Was this special reprinted in a paperback collection? Has it been
]translated? (Boy, I'll be embarassed if I already have it and just didn't
I think it'll be re-printed in a Japanese CD-ROM.
Michael Parker
In <4smgn0$9...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> ran...@ix.netcom.com (Michael
Parker) writes:
>
>In <4s99q3$4...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> ran...@ix.netcom.com
(Michael
>Parker) writes:
>>
>>like to know if anyone has it translated yet. please send replies to
>>ran...@ix.netcom.com
>>THNAK YOU
>
plus if anyone knows where i can get some Ranma 1/2 Doshinji (if that
means adult Ranma 1/2) let me know as well
Michael Parker
Kenji (in exile)
ran...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Parker) wrote:
>In <4smgn0$9...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> ran...@ix.netcom.com (Michael
>Parker) writes:
>>
>plus if anyone knows where i can get some Ranma 1/2 Doshinji (if that
>means adult Ranma 1/2) let me know as well
You're looking for "H Doujinshi". "Doujishi" is just fanstuff.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Come visit my page for better nutrition *
* http://www.novia.net/~yotsuya/homepage.html *
* Japanese anime and manga, ramen, and r.a.a! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
__ _ _
/ /______ __ ___ __////
__/ __ ___/ ___ / / /__/ / /
/___/ / / /__/ / / /__/ / /
_/ / ____/ / ____/ /
/__/ /_____/ /_____/
email: Yot...@oasis.novia.net o_O