The publicity: One review in the Houston Chronicle. A pan.
No advertisements. Very small print listing in the theater listings.
Cover story for the entertainment section: BJM.
The location: Greenway Plaza, possibly the worst place possible.
Greenway Plaza is in the same general complex as Compaq Center, the
home arena for the Houston Rockets... who were having a home game that
night against the San Antonio Spurs. There were no signs in local
parking to let a person know that the $20.00 parking fee is waived if
your parking ticket is validated by the theater. Finally, the traffic
getting to and from the place (Southwest Freeway, between Downtown and
Loop 610) is absolutely terrifying.
The theater itself is located in a small mall nestled inside a mass of
office buildings. It has three roughly equal theaters, seating between
200 and 300 people.
I arrived in time to wait in line until the 4:00 showing let out.
Maybe 30 people.
At 7:00 PM, when the lights dimmed, the theater was less than half
full. A handful of kids were there... the rest were, by and large,
local college students and anime club members who'd heard about the
movie.
The movie:
First and foremost, the script reeks. While not quite as bad for 'keep
gabbing while the mouth moves' as Speed Racer, the lines were stuffed
with redundancies and unnecessary jabbering- not just to fill in the
mouth movements, but occasionally over closed mouths to provide
information that the viewer already KNOWS or can figure out
themselves. (I don't recall any such in the original movie.)
Furthermore, the script shows no signs at all that Neil Gaiman ever
touched the thing- for all the style involved, Carl Macek might as
well have done it.
The voice acting was mixed, very mixed indeed. Most of the extras and
supporting cast were poorly acted indeed (Streamline & Manga fashion),
with the exception of the wife of the ox-driver, whose name I have
forgotten, who came across with a very solid performance. Lady Eboshi
was wonderfully understated, while Abarishi (?) was just -plain-
understated. San practically steals the show with the best range of
emotional display, but even she has some flat lines, particularly near
the end (no spoilers, sorry).
The very worst acting in the whole bit, of course, is Billy Bob
Thornton's monk character, who is flat, dull, and annoying. It has no
range, no charm, nothing more than Thornton's voice reading off the
script. I didn't care much more for Gillian Anderson's performance as
the wolf-goddess, which was almost as monotone and sounded more like
someone playing the Wicked Witch of the West while reading to a small
child: overenunciating, overpronouncing, sacrificing all depth of
performance for the sake of a clean delivery.
Despite all this, the dub was much better in quality than most of the
dubbing done with anime today... but it's a long way -down- from the
voice-acting domestic animation can call on.
The movie itself is wonderful, and in general the reviewers who've
tackled it for the mainstream press are all idiots. There is, of
course, no 'bad guy' or 'good guy' in the story- even the avaricious,
double-dealing monk has his better nature, as we see in his original
appearance, and even the wonder-prince has his weaknesses and his
selfishness to deal with. All the characters are genuinely human, and
while this would be a strength for a live-action feature, the American
media seems to view it as a fatal weakness for animation.
Conclusion: If the performance in Houston tonight is any indication,
this movie is in DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE... and I have to say, here in
Houston at least, that everything which can be done to kill Monomoke
here, short of burning the theater, is being done.
Redneck
Redneck Gaijin wrote:
>
> 11-5-99
>
> The publicity: One review in the Houston Chronicle. A pan.
Not to mention the Press review, which was about the same tone.
> No advertisements. Very small print listing in the theater listings.
> Cover story for the entertainment section: BJM.
^_^;; Didn't you read the Thursday Chronicle -with- that review? At
least it got a cover for the entertainment section then (and the
mentions with that front page were pretty positive as a whole.)
> The location: Greenway Plaza, possibly the worst place possible.
> Greenway Plaza is in the same general complex as Compaq Center, the
> home arena for the Houston Rockets... who were having a home game that
> night against the San Antonio Spurs. There were no signs in local
> parking to let a person know that the $20.00 parking fee is waived if
> your parking ticket is validated by the theater. Finally, the traffic
> getting to and from the place (Southwest Freeway, between Downtown and
> Loop 610) is absolutely terrifying.
Admittedly. Though, and let's be honest here, it's a good art house
theater; it's just the location that stinks. Also, didn't you see the
"additional theater parking" sign? No charge, screw validation. ^_^;;
And terrifying? You -are- from out of town, aren't you? I had to make a
U-turn to get in because I couldn't find the underground parking garage,
passing through the main outflow from the Rockets game TWICE, and not
only did I have no problems, the car following me kept up. ^_^
> I arrived in time to wait in line until the 4:00 showing let out.
> Maybe 30 people.
>
> At 7:00 PM, when the lights dimmed, the theater was less than half
> full. A handful of kids were there... the rest were, by and large,
> local college students and anime club members who'd heard about the
> movie.
Most of us were waiting for the 10PM showing, then. Easily a
three-quarters full theater. (It was like a "who's who" list of
Houston-area otaku! ^_^) Only two kids in evidence in the whole theater.
> The movie:
>
> First and foremost, the script reeks. While not quite as bad for 'keep
> gabbing while the mouth moves' as Speed Racer, the lines were stuffed
> with redundancies and unnecessary jabbering- not just to fill in the
> mouth movements, but occasionally over closed mouths to provide
> information that the viewer already KNOWS or can figure out
> themselves. (I don't recall any such in the original movie.)
> Furthermore, the script shows no signs at all that Neil Gaiman ever
> touched the thing- for all the style involved, Carl Macek might as
> well have done it.
Never saw the original, so I can't comment on comparatives, but the
actual effect of the script on the movie is pretty small. Aside from one
or two "straight lines", there's nothing in there that really detracts
from the movie.
> The voice acting was mixed, very mixed indeed. Most of the extras and
> supporting cast were poorly acted indeed (Streamline & Manga fashion),
> with the exception of the wife of the ox-driver, whose name I have
> forgotten, who came across with a very solid performance. Lady Eboshi
> was wonderfully understated, while Abarishi (?) was just -plain-
> understated. San practically steals the show with the best range of
> emotional display, but even she has some flat lines, particularly near
> the end (no spoilers, sorry).
Ashitaka could have used a bit more emotion in the voice, yeah... and I
was impressed by said wife of the ox driver as well; hope she gets more
VA jobs, she deserves 'em!
> The very worst acting in the whole bit, of course, is Billy Bob
> Thornton's monk character, who is flat, dull, and annoying. It has no
> range, no charm, nothing more than Thornton's voice reading off the
> script. I didn't care much more for Gillian Anderson's performance as
> the wolf-goddess, which was almost as monotone and sounded more like
> someone playing the Wicked Witch of the West while reading to a small
> child: overenunciating, overpronouncing, sacrificing all depth of
> performance for the sake of a clean delivery.
Agreed on both. Anderson wasn't too bad, but some of that might have
been the computer modification of the voice... hard to judge the actual
delivery through that. Didn't hurt my enjoyment of the movie. Thornton,
on the other hand... ah, well, at least he wasn't talking much. ;p
> Despite all this, the dub was much better in quality than most of the
> dubbing done with anime today... but it's a long way -down- from the
> voice-acting domestic animation can call on.
True. If a dub of this quality had been on, say, Slayers or the new
RoLW, then we'd all be raving about how above average it was. Stick it
on a Miyazaki film, though, and it borders on desecration. ^_^;; Far as
I'm concerned, it just shows how good Mononoke is... watching it, you
can't pretend that you're not looking at an art form instead of an
entertainment.
> Conclusion: If the performance in Houston tonight is any indication,
> this movie is in DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE... and I have to say, here in
> Houston at least, that everything which can be done to kill Monomoke
> here, short of burning the theater, is being done.
I still have to say that you just went to the wrong showing. The only
problem for the theater, methinks, is that everybody ate before coming
and thus there were almost -no- concession sales. ^_^;;
Interesting to see how it turns out if PM does get a wider release,
though; I'd definitely pay to see this one again.
>Redneck Gaijin wrote:
>>
>> 11-5-99
>>
>> The publicity: One review in the Houston Chronicle. A pan.
>
>Not to mention the Press review, which was about the same tone.
>
>> No advertisements. Very small print listing in the theater listings.
>> Cover story for the entertainment section: BJM.
>
>^_^;; Didn't you read the Thursday Chronicle -with- that review?
I was reading the Friday edition. I couldn't get the Thursday one.
> At
>least it got a cover for the entertainment section then (and the
>mentions with that front page were pretty positive as a whole.)
The small image it shared with the other review from the back page
pretty much -was- the cover. Aside from the 'read this, pg. 16D'
blurb, there was nothing on the front of the Friday Houston section
about PM.
>> The location: Greenway Plaza, possibly the worst place possible.
>> Greenway Plaza is in the same general complex as Compaq Center, the
>> home arena for the Houston Rockets... who were having a home game that
>> night against the San Antonio Spurs. There were no signs in local
>> parking to let a person know that the $20.00 parking fee is waived if
>> your parking ticket is validated by the theater. Finally, the traffic
>> getting to and from the place (Southwest Freeway, between Downtown and
>> Loop 610) is absolutely terrifying.
>
>Admittedly. Though, and let's be honest here, it's a good art house
>theater; it's just the location that stinks.
The best definition of 'good art house theater' I've ever seen is,
'Shows films I like even though nobody else likes them.' I've seen
them specially built for the purpose, made over from old multiplexes,
etc.
In fact, I had the feeling of a rat descending into its hole as I
walked down the ramp from the ticket kiosk past the checkpoint into
the Movie Pit.
> Also, didn't you see the
>"additional theater parking" sign? No charge, screw validation. ^_^;;
Um... NO. I didn't.
The 'Event Parking' signs were plastered EVERYWHERE when I came in.
>And terrifying? You -are- from out of town, aren't you?
Former resident with infrequent business. I occasionally refer to
myself as a Houstonian because, aside from Beaumont (which is only
slightly closer), there IS no city of any size closer.
>I had to make a
>U-turn to get in because I couldn't find the underground parking garage,
>passing through the main outflow from the Rockets game TWICE, and not
>only did I have no problems, the car following me kept up. ^_^
Actually, traffic in the complex itself was great, thanks to the cops
directing traffic for the Rockets game.
I refer to 6 PM conditions on the inner Southwest Freeway,
particularly from I-45 to Shepherd/Greenbriar. (Of course, this route
was preferable to the only feasible alternative, the 610 Galleria
Death Rally.)
>> I arrived in time to wait in line until the 4:00 showing let out.
>> Maybe 30 people.
>>
>> At 7:00 PM, when the lights dimmed, the theater was less than half
>> full. A handful of kids were there... the rest were, by and large,
>> local college students and anime club members who'd heard about the
>> movie.
>
>Most of us were waiting for the 10PM showing, then. Easily a
>three-quarters full theater. (It was like a "who's who" list of
>Houston-area otaku! ^_^) Only two kids in evidence in the whole theater.
That's a shame. I'd like to meet more of you so I can sell you crap!
^_^
(Seriously, know anybody driving in from Beaumont, Liberty, and points
east? I'd like to get a more local club started than Houston...)
>> The movie:
>>
>> First and foremost, the script reeks. While not quite as bad for 'keep
>> gabbing while the mouth moves' as Speed Racer, the lines were stuffed
>> with redundancies and unnecessary jabbering- not just to fill in the
>> mouth movements, but occasionally over closed mouths to provide
>> information that the viewer already KNOWS or can figure out
>> themselves. (I don't recall any such in the original movie.)
>> Furthermore, the script shows no signs at all that Neil Gaiman ever
>> touched the thing- for all the style involved, Carl Macek might as
>> well have done it.
>
>Never saw the original, so I can't comment on comparatives, but the
>actual effect of the script on the movie is pretty small. Aside from one
>or two "straight lines", there's nothing in there that really detracts
>from the movie.
YMMV, but for me the script is a very large part of the experience. If
I can't believe how the characters are talking, it's difficult for me
to believe in the characters at all.
>> The voice acting was mixed, very mixed indeed. Most of the extras and
>> supporting cast were poorly acted indeed (Streamline & Manga fashion),
>> with the exception of the wife of the ox-driver, whose name I have
>> forgotten, who came across with a very solid performance. Lady Eboshi
>> was wonderfully understated, while Abarishi (?) was just -plain-
>> understated. San practically steals the show with the best range of
>> emotional display, but even she has some flat lines, particularly near
>> the end (no spoilers, sorry).
>
>Ashitaka could have used a bit more emotion in the voice, yeah... and I
>was impressed by said wife of the ox driver as well; hope she gets more
>VA jobs, she deserves 'em!
I think whoever she was would do a nice Lina Inverse...
>> Despite all this, the dub was much better in quality than most of the
>> dubbing done with anime today... but it's a long way -down- from the
>> voice-acting domestic animation can call on.
>
>True. If a dub of this quality had been on, say, Slayers or the new
>RoLW, then we'd all be raving about how above average it was.
No, I'd still say it stinks. I'm a card carrying member of the DSM
(Dubs Suck Mafia). }:-{D
>Far as
>I'm concerned, it just shows how good Mononoke is... watching it, you
>can't pretend that you're not looking at an art form instead of an
>entertainment.
I don't make the distinction. Art -is- entertainment, and
entertainment -is- art. The identity of a piece of work is not
dependent on its quality. }:-{D
>> Conclusion: If the performance in Houston tonight is any indication,
>> this movie is in DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE... and I have to say, here in
>> Houston at least, that everything which can be done to kill Monomoke
>> here, short of burning the theater, is being done.
>
>I still have to say that you just went to the wrong showing. The only
>problem for the theater, methinks, is that everybody ate before coming
>and thus there were almost -no- concession sales. ^_^;;
Bear in mind, though, that the 10 PM showing represents the 'otaku
unite!' push, and is probably not representative... in fact, out of
the half-full theater I watched with, I think maybe half of -them-
were otaku.
I would love to see sales numbers for the whole weekend on this, to
see which of us is right...
>Interesting to see how it turns out if PM does get a wider release,
>though; I'd definitely pay to see this one again.
I ain't got the money... have to save up to take Mom and my little
brother to watch a movie starring a little yellow rodent (instead of a
movie bought by a little black rodent)...
Redneck
Jada Pinkett Smith. Probably best known for being Will Smith's wife. I
can't think, offhand, what else she's done.
All things considered, I kinda doubt she'll be doing many anime roles.
> >True. If a dub of this quality had been on, say, Slayers or the new
> >RoLW, then we'd all be raving about how above average it was.
>
> No, I'd still say it stinks. I'm a card carrying member of the DSM
> (Dubs Suck Mafia). }:-{D
Pity, that. In its own way, the kneejerk criticism of all dubs is as bad as
the various "views" brought here by various trolls. Actually, it's worse,
because I, for one, take the person far less seriously from then on, and
don't really respect them.
We don't need more KJ Karvonens. An objective look (or at least a forgiving
one) would do wonders.
> Redneck
Damien Roc
Water Dragon Productions
Mike Stackpole Fan (1992)
Natalie Portman fan (Tuesday, May 25, 1999)
Umi's Champion, Nuriko's Honor Guard
http://www.whyweb.com/damienroc/
But it was the BEST three and a half minutes of the show!
-Tiffany Grant, on Plastic Little
>
> Pity, that. In its own way, the kneejerk criticism of all dubs is as bad as
> the various "views" brought here by various trolls. Actually, it's worse,
> because I, for one, take the person far less seriously from then on, and
> don't really respect them.
>
> We don't need more ************. An objective look (or at least a
> forgiving one) would do wonders.
>
Dammit Damien!!!
You know <beeeeep> has an associate who checks for this!! ^_^
Don't do that again, if you know what's good for ya!
Laters. =)
Stan
----------
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita Lost...@optonline.net
| ( _| | U of Rochester sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | uhura.cc.rochester.edu/~sd005e
/___/\/\___ __| |__|___| \ ___|
Oh, yeah... the great and wonderful associate of Mr. (Ms.) Deja. I'll have
to remember that.
> Don't do that again, if you know what's good for ya!
Eh... after gaza and all those others we've had recently, I could actually
do with KJ... he at least leaves after a while.
> Laters. =)
>
> Stan
Eboshi (Minnie Driver): Very good. Neither blindly good, nor evil.
Human, with a believable agenda and good balance of willfulness
Ashitaka (Billy Crudup): Off and on. Lacked emotion sometimes.
Wolf Goddess (Gillian Anderson): Mebbe I'm unobservant, but I didn't
realize it was Anderson until the credits, though I should have. Didn't
_love_ her performance, but didn't dislike it either.
San (Claire Danes): I expected to be disappointed with her, but after
the first half hour I forgot that it was Danes at all. A noble effort
for one who I believe is a novice VA.
the Monk (Billy Bob Thornton): Took me a couple seconds to realize who
the voice was, but once I did, the character never took on a life of his
own through the rest of the film. I can't put my finger on what was
wrong, but something was missing in his performance.
I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, but these were the important ones that
I could remember.
--
The 80-watt Hamster
Now flame-resistant!
jood...@ILUVSPAM.usa.net
Didn't help that he got saddled with some of the corniest lines in the
script. Still, I think he played Astitaka with the proper degree of
earnestness.
> San (Claire Danes): I expected to be disappointed with her, but after
> the first half hour I forgot that it was Danes at all. A noble effort
> for one who I believe is a novice VA.
My beef is more with the script than the VA. It didn't adequately
portray San's evolution from feral wolf-child to someone who
acknowledges her humanness. A seasoned VA could have overcome that, but
Danes needed help from the script, and she didn't get it.
> the Monk (Billy Bob Thornton): Took me a couple seconds to realize who
> the voice was, but once I did, the character never took on a life of his
> own through the rest of the film. I can't put my finger on what was
> wrong, but something was missing in his performance.
Thornton's voice is just too distinctive, I guess. I won't quibble with
the basic idea of casting a Southern voice for the monk; there are no
exact English equivalents to Japanese accents anyway, and the monk was
clearly supposed to speak in more of a rural voice than most of the rest
of the cast.
I will give Thornton credit for keeping Jigo's character morally
ambiguous. The temptation to play him as a straight villain must have
been strong.
--
JRF
Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" and think one step ahead of IBM.
>Redneck Gaijin wrote:
>>
>> >True. If a dub of this quality had been on, say, Slayers or the new
>> >RoLW, then we'd all be raving about how above average it was.
>>
>> No, I'd still say it stinks. I'm a card carrying member of the DSM
>> (Dubs Suck Mafia). }:-{D
>
>Pity, that. In its own way, the kneejerk criticism of all dubs is as bad as
>the various "views" brought here by various trolls. Actually, it's worse,
>because I, for one, take the person far less seriously from then on, and
>don't really respect them.
>
>We don't need more KJ Karvonens.
Well, if they make an anime dub that doesn't suck, maybe I'll change
my mind.
Haven't seen one yet, though.
Redneck
There's circular logic that goes along with that. Watch a good dub, if it's
good, but don't give any dub the chance to be watched.
I've seen it many times. "All dubs suck" is a generalization. One I used to
believe in, actually.
> Redneck
> No, I'd still say it stinks. I'm a card carrying member of the DSM
> (Dubs Suck Mafia). }:-{D
>
Just to register a dissenting opinion, I also am usually a member of
the DSM (I try not to enter too many debates on the subject, but
privately I am), however I found the dub to be very good. Maybe it's
because I had low expectations (due to my anti-dub bias, or due to
having heard some of ADV's dubs) but I was very impressed.
I went to see it with a group of completely non-otaku fans that I
dragged along. Their impression, with no prior knowledge of the whole
dub/sub issue, was that it was excellent all around.
--
**************************************************************
* Keith F. Goodnight, Anime Fan kgoo...@mail.smu.edu *
* Keeper of Annapuma's Script Crypt *
* http://gsoft.smu.edu/ScriptCrypt/crypt.html *
**************************************************************
Redneck Gaijin wrote:
> 11-5-99
>
>
>
> The location: Greenway Plaza, possibly the worst place possible.
Greenway Plaza wouldn't be my first choice either. I would have preferred
River Oaks.
They are own by the same parent company.
It been some time since I attended a movie in the Greenway Plaza. I had
forgotten the route to
the theater parking. Fifteen minutes later, finally found it. I agree that
parking there can be a hassle.
> I arrived in time to wait in line until the 4:00 showing let out.
> Maybe 30 people.
>
> At 7:00 PM, when the lights dimmed, the theater was less than half
> full. A handful of kids were there... the rest were, by and large,
> local college students and anime club members who'd heard about the
> movie.
I took in the 10 pm Sunday movie. About 30 people attended, mostly college
aged.
> The movie:
>
> First and foremost, the script reeks. While not quite as bad for 'keep
> gabbing while the mouth moves' as Speed Racer, the lines were stuffed
> with redundancies and unnecessary jabbering- not just to fill in the
> mouth movements, but occasionally over closed mouths to provide
> information that the viewer already KNOWS or can figure out
> themselves.
I agree that the script could have been better. It had spots which were
pedantic, repetitious, and full of platitudes. I agree with with you that
some
of the lines at the end were just plain flat. I don't know how much of
that is
due the vagaries of translation or to the original script.
> The voice acting was mixed, very mixed indeed. Most of the extras and
> supporting cast were poorly acted indeed
I stayed to read the credits after the movie. I noted that the extra voice
talent
was a who's who of anime voiceovers. As an example, I noted the presence
of
Matt Miller (Tenchi Masaki), Sheryl Lynn (Sasami), and K. G. Vogt (Washu)
all from the Tenchi Muyo series.
> Lady Eboshi was wonderfully understated,
Minnie Driver performed an excellent job as Lady Eboshi.
> while Abarishi (?) was just -plain-understated.
I thought Billy Crudup did well portraying an ernest young hero.
> San practically steals the show with the best range of
> emotional display, but even she has some flat lines, particularly near
> the end (no spoilers, sorry).
I thought Claire Daines performance was flat. As one reviewer said,
there were times when sounded more like a whiny valley girl than a
warrior princess.
> The very worst acting in the whole bit, of course, is Billy Bob
> Thornton's monk character, who is flat, dull, and annoying.
Amen, there. I kept visualized his Sling Blade character everytime
he spoke.
> I didn't care much more for Gillian Anderson's performance as
> the wolf-goddess, which was almost as monotone and sounded more like
> someone playing the Wicked Witch of the West while reading to a small
> child: overenunciating, overpronouncing, sacrificing all depth of
> performance for the sake of a clean delivery.
You forgot to mention all the vocal manipulation they layered on her
voice.
> The movie itself is wonderful, and in general the reviewers who've
> tackled it for the mainstream press are all idiots. There is, of
> course, no 'bad guy' or 'good guy' in the story- even the avaricious,
> double-dealing monk has his better nature, as we see in his original
> appearance, and even the wonder-prince has his weaknesses and his
> selfishness to deal with. All the characters are genuinely human, and
> while this would be a strength for a live-action feature, the American
> media seems to view it as a fatal weakness for animation.
The movie is wonderful. The artwork is beautiful, the story has multiple
layers.
It has gone on my short list for movies to buy when released on videotape
(or
better yet DVD)