Possibly a new era in anime dubbing?
Lum
On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:24:29 GMT, tsu...@wants.no.spam
(Tsunami@Jyurai) wrote:
>I would be interested to know how
>many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>providing the dubbing is done well?
>After all, I think that Disney of all companies would be able to do an
>excellent job of the dubbing.....
Maybe so but I still wont buy it.
It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
Lum
---------------
Oni wa soto...
...fuku wa uchi
Richard Beaubien
On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Tsunami@Jyurai wrote:
> With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
> about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
> amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
> many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
> providing the dubbing is done well?
> After all, I think that Disney of all companies would be able to do an
> excellent job of the dubbing.....
Well, not really being a hardcore dub hater and being more of a sub fan
I'd probably say that I wouldn't be picking up the dubbed versions of most
of Miyazaki's films, espically one's like Naussica and Kiki's where I've
seen the orginal (and would kill for Disney to due a subtitle of
Kiki's...:0).
I will go see Monmoke Hime dubbed though on the big screen if it comes up
here, just because Big screen anime is a rare up here and always worth
watching if given a chance...
I guess I've kinda of gone full circle really in my anime fandom. 2 1/2
years ago I would of taken any anime in any form. Now, I'll stick with
subtitles (just picked up Greenwood Subbed..$21 a tape..:) since I'm
slowly becoming more of a student of seiyuu's. Nothing againsts dubs or
Disney's dubbing of Miyazaki, it's just that I myself prefer subtitles and
the Japanese seiyuu's...
Espically Hiromi Tsuru....I've sorta of jumped on her bandwagon this
year...:)
Ja ne!!
Richard Beaubien (Who still has fears, though Unfounded, that Disney will
turn Nausicca into another Warriors of the Wind....)
----------------
Mizuno Ami-chan forever!!!
Fanfic homepage http://www.anime.usacomputers.net/~beaubird
Ben Carter
On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:24:29 GMT, tsu...@wants.no.spam
>With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
>about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
>amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
>many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>providing the dubbing is done well?
I'll buy it, if only to have a good (picture) quality copy, at least
of Nausicaa (my favorite film of all time now) and Laputa. If
(unlikely, IMHO) any get cinema releases I'll go to those to, again if
only for a chance to see them on a big screen.
What I *really* want is the "collectors-edition" laserdisc that was
mentioned a while back, with the dub and sub on it, if it ever
appears...
>After all, I think that Disney of all companies would be able to do an
>excellent job of the dubbing.....
I would hope so, given the probable cost.
Ben Carter - b...@gunk.demon.co.uk - http://www.gunk.demon.co.uk/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Shut up! How're we supposed to be the bad guys if we go about
worrying about our *lives* all the time?" - Grandis Granbar, "The
Secret of Blue Water"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tsunami@Jyurai
With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
providing the dubbing is done well?
excellent job of the dubbing.....
"You will never amount to very much"
Munich schoolmaster to Albert Einstein, aged 10.
http://www.jyurai.demon.co.uk/ tsu...@jyurai.demon.co.uk
Robert Fahey
In article <341acef...@news2.force9.net>, Lum <L...@megabyte.force9.
co.uk.NOSPAM> writes
>On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:24:29 GMT, tsu...@wants.no.spam
>(Tsunami@Jyurai) wrote:
>>many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>>providing the dubbing is done well?
>>After all, I think that Disney of all companies would be able to do an
>>excellent job of the dubbing.....
>
>
>It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
>it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
what you mean is that it just isn't the same, once you've watched the
sub. Thats why I like the Tenchi dub, because they used the same voice
actors. Makes sense, when you think about it, and a shame that more
companies don't go to that effort.
Ja mata ne!
Robert
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Robert Fahey | rob...@iol.ie |
| Reality is for those who can't cope with Quake |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.iol.ie/~robertf .... Games Editor, Dot-IE Magazine |
'------------------------------------------------------------------'
Ryan Mathews
In <874171559.21070.2...@news.demon.co.uk>
tsu...@wants.no.spam (Tsunami@Jyurai) writes:
>
>With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
>about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
>many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>providing the dubbing is done well?
Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
--
---------- Ryan Mathews
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: math...@ix.netcom.com
Fan-Fiction Website: http://soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~mathews/
Read my anime website review column, "Last Exit Before Toll"!
On the Anime Web Turnpike: http://www.anipike.com/lastexit.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Smith
L...@megabyte.force9.co.uk.NOSPAM (Lum) writes:
> It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
> it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
I had no idea that anime writers act as casting directors as well.
Let me point out one thing that 99% of Western anime fans lose by
watching anime in Japanese: comprehension of the dialogue that the
writer intended. IMVHO, subtitles cannot take the place of
understanding the language - they cannot capture vocal nuances,
inflections, etc. And there's no rule that says that English VAs are
worse than Japanese VAs.
I'm not going to say anything more on this topic. The only difference
in quality between subs and dubs is personal taste, and there's no
point in arguing over it.
--
Jesse Smith
jds...@wco.com
http://www.wco.com/~jdsmith/
"God's in His Heaven; all's right with the world." - Robert Browning
David G. Bell
In article <5vf1bk$m...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
math...@ix.netcom.com(Ryan "Ryan Mathews" writes:
> In <874171559.21070.2...@news.demon.co.uk>
> tsu...@wants.no.spam (Tsunami@Jyurai) writes:
> >
> >With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
> >about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
> >amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
> >many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
> >providing the dubbing is done well?
>
> Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
> floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
> good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
> that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
The one doubt that I have, personally, is how the dubbing might alter
the story-telling, or even the story. Is somebody at Disney going to
say, "we can't do this" and change things.
It needn't be extreme, but it could happen. I wouldn't be astonished if
names were changed to something less 'foreign' (which in reality means
less non-European, given the immigration to the USA), though I hope it
wouldn't be as clumsy as some of the more notorious examples.
But where's the limit? I haven't seen any of the recent Disney films.
Can you imagine Disney putting out Porco Rosso without some changes?
They ought to be able to, but I'm out of touch with their standards.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Ben Carter
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:32:33 GMT, d...@ryouko.demon.co.uk (Duncan
Law-Green) wrote:
>Robert Fahey <rob...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
>>In article <341acef...@news2.force9.net>, Lum <L...@megabyte.force9.
>>co.uk.NOSPAM> writes
>>>It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
>>>it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
>
>>Um, I don't think the writer intended any particular voices. I think
>>what you mean is that it just isn't the same, once you've watched the
>>sub. Thats why I like the Tenchi dub, because they used the same voice
>>actors.
>
>Um. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but Tenchi does /not/ have
>the same voice acting cast in the Japanese and American versions (see
>the seiyuu interviews at the end of the OAV series).
Er.. I thought that *was* the case for Tenchi, at least for the songs
if not the actual episodes... (BTW - I haven't seen the end of the
series, so I could be entirely wrong. I was sure someone told me that,
though)
Ben Carter
>In article <5vf1bk$m...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
> math...@ix.netcom.com(Ryan "Ryan Mathews" writes:
>
>> In <874171559.21070.2...@news.demon.co.uk>
>> tsu...@wants.no.spam (Tsunami@Jyurai) writes:
>> >
>> >With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
>> >about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
>> >amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
>> >many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>> >providing the dubbing is done well?
>>
>> Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
>> floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
>> good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
>> that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
>
>The one doubt that I have, personally, is how the dubbing might alter
>the story-telling, or even the story. Is somebody at Disney going to
>say, "we can't do this" and change things.
I heard once that one of the conditions of the license was that they
were released uncut.. aparently the bath scene in Totoro was a major
stumbling-block at one point..? Can anyone confirm/deny this?
>It needn't be extreme, but it could happen. I wouldn't be astonished if
>names were changed to something less 'foreign' (which in reality means
>less non-European, given the immigration to the USA), though I hope it
>wouldn't be as clumsy as some of the more notorious examples.
Erk... I don't think any of the names are *that* bad. I'll be really
annoyed if they *do* change them, though.
Dwayne Gregory
Ryan Mathews wrote:
> In <874171559.21070.2...@news.demon.co.uk>
> tsu...@wants.no.spam (Tsunami@Jyurai) writes:
> >
> >With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
>
> >about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
> >amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know
> how
> >many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
> >providing the dubbing is done well?
>
> Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
> floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
> good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
> that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
Totoro and El-Hazard. Hmmm. No commento.
Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
lds release for any other shows?
Dwayne
Robert van der Veeke
Dwayne Gregory <ret...@gte.net> schreef in artikel
<5vfca7$l9a$3...@gte2.gte.net>...
> Ryan Mathews wrote:
> Totoro and El-Hazard. Hmmm. No commento.
>
> Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
> just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
> lds release for any other shows?
>
> Dwayne
>
For "Mononoko Hime", march next year, that is what the rumours are saying
in the Netherlands.
--
Robert van der Veeke
[rjvveeke @ caiw . nl]
14 BREAK - CONTINUE to repeat 10:1
Bot.Fodder (feeding the email-harversters)
[webm...@dirtydicks.com]
Duncan Law-Green
Robert Fahey <rob...@iol.ie> wrote:
>In article <341acef...@news2.force9.net>, Lum <L...@megabyte.force9.
>co.uk.NOSPAM> writes
>>It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
>>it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
>Um, I don't think the writer intended any particular voices. I think
>what you mean is that it just isn't the same, once you've watched the
>sub. Thats why I like the Tenchi dub, because they used the same voice
>actors.
Um. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but Tenchi does /not/ have
the same voice acting cast in the Japanese and American versions (see
the seiyuu interviews at the end of the OAV series).
>Makes sense when you think about it, and a shame that more
>companies don't go to that effort.
To the best of my knowledge, no anime company (not even Pioneer!) has
used the same voice cast for the Japanese and English dubs.
Baibai
Duncan
=-=-=-
/ _ # J. Duncan Law-Green DP, El Haz, Eva, Tenchi and more DP
/_/ _ # Web: http://www.ryouko.demon.co.uk/ RL: Leicester, UK
/_/ # - Writer under pressure, do not puncture or incinerate -
Invid fan
In article <874188...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk>, db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk
wrote:
> It needn't be extreme, but it could happen. I wouldn't be astonished if
> names were changed to something less 'foreign' (which in reality means
> less non-European, given the immigration to the USA), though I hope it
> wouldn't be as clumsy as some of the more notorious examples.
>
I for one think at least one name should be changed: Sheeta. It's a tad too
close to a certain four letter word :)
--
Chris Mack "...any occult ritual ought to involve
'Invid fan' (a) nudity
(b) wearing a bad hat, and
In...@localnet.com (c) assuming an uncomfortable and ludicrous
position"
-Penn and Teller
Trey Causey
> It needn't be extreme, but it could happen. I wouldn't be astonished if
> names were changed to something less 'foreign' (which in reality means
> less non-European, given the immigration to the USA), though I hope it
> wouldn't be as clumsy as some of the more notorious examples.
>
> But where's the limit? I haven't seen any of the recent Disney films.
> Can you imagine Disney putting out Porco Rosso without some changes?
> They ought to be able to, but I'm out of touch with their standards.
It was my understanding that Disney is not allowed to alter the story in
any shape or form other than dubbing it. That's just what my impression
was. I'm sure some changes could be made and said it was "impossible not
to for the dub to work." Something like that anyway...
*** trey causey ***
*** section nine web design studios ***
*** http://www.sectionnine.com/ ***
*** 540-951-1786 by phone ***
Bruce Tomlin
[uk.media.animation.anime removed from followups]
In rec.arts.anime.misc Ryan Mathews <math...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
>floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
>good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
>that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
Totoro is a good dub, except for that AWFUL kiddy theme song at the
beginning! The singer's voice is so saccharine, it makes me cringe!
(I'm still debating whether or not to buy the LD, which is not only dubbed
without alternate audio, but P&S too. Still, Totoro and Catbus do rule.)
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <$F$vcZAQO...@iol.ie>, Robert Fahey <rob...@iol.ie> wrote:
>In article <341acef...@news2.force9.net>, Lum <L...@megabyte.force9.
>co.uk.NOSPAM> writes
>>
>>It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
>>it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
>Um, I don't think the writer intended any particular voices. I think
>what you mean is that it just isn't the same, once you've watched the
>sub. Thats why I like the Tenchi dub, because they used the same voice
>companies don't go to that effort.
Um, I don't want to renew the old dub/sub flamewar here, but I _will_ point
out that the production staff is _positively_ connected to the seiyuu
selection process to match voices to characters. It is probably rare to find
an anime where the creators _didn't_ care what the original seiyuu sound like.
The best we could hope for in a dub is that the original creators have a
hand in selecting the dubbing voice cast...
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Ru Igarashi
Jesse Smith (jds...@shell.wco.com) wrote:
>L...@megabyte.force9.co.uk.NOSPAM (Lum) writes:
>
>> It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
>> it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
>
Ok, he got the attribution wrong, but Lum's pretty well on track
about the loss of the original voices. There are some wonderful
voices and acting there and it would be a real shame to miss out
on them.
>Let me point out one thing that 99% of Western anime fans lose by
>watching anime in Japanese: comprehension of the dialogue that the
>writer intended. IMVHO, subtitles cannot take the place of
>understanding the language - they cannot capture vocal nuances,
>inflections, etc. And there's no rule that says that English VAs are
>worse than Japanese VAs.
>
>I'm not going to say anything more on this topic. The only difference
>in quality between subs and dubs is personal taste, and there's no
>point in arguing over it.
Have to disagree a bit with you there. Maybe the 99% is close, but
I think the number is smaller, AND...
I definitely disagree with the comprehension arguement.
Subtitles don't convey enough information, yes, but a lot of
subtleties are in the japanese dialog itself which you don't
lose. You might not understand what they are saying, but a lot
of the time you sure can understand HOW they are saying it.
That "HOW" is so easily lost in dubs, and is one thing I always
suspect in dubs of ANY foreign film. I'd rather hear the
original Slavic tongue on a Czech film than a dub track.
Most the cues and nuances are comprehendable in the japanese
tracks and don't require much, if any, understanding of the
language. That's why I think there isn't as much of a loss
in comprehension, at least not to the degree that dubs might
be considered better in that category.
Furthermore, and this relates back to the VAs, the voice
direction probably has a shorter degree of separation to the
Director's intention than a dub voice director could ever get
(considering the number of translators and writers there are
between the original voice director and the dub voice
director). There is bound to be some re-interpretation, even
though unintentional. I was once horrified to hear that a VA
wanted to do her own interpretation of a character. This has
nothing to do with quality, rather with changes, however well
intentioned.
I think this goes much beyond personal taste and has
ramifications on the integrity of the film and the intentions of
the original director.
And for those reasons, I am really hoping that Disney will put
out subtitled versions of Miyazaki releases.
ru
Mark L. Neidengard
Dammit, the old flame war resurfaces...
In article <s5men6s...@shell.wco.com>,
Jesse Smith <jds...@shell.wco.com> wrote:
>L...@megabyte.force9.co.uk.NOSPAM (Lum) writes:
>
>> It's not a case of whether the dub is good or not, it's the fact that
>> it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
>
>I had no idea that anime writers act as casting directors as well.
The screenplay authors may or may not have part of the seiyuu selection
process as a whole, but I would guess that at least the director gets to pass
judgement on the decisions of the casting folks...
>Let me point out one thing that 99% of Western anime fans lose by
>watching anime in Japanese: comprehension of the dialogue that the
>writer intended. IMVHO, subtitles cannot take the place of
>understanding the language - they cannot capture vocal nuances,
>inflections, etc. And there's no rule that says that English VAs are
>worse than Japanese VAs.
Subtitles are, of course, not a perfect substitute for understanding of the
original language. BUT, dubs are often an even _worse_ substitute for
understanding the original language, mainly because if someone is starting
with a blank slate for the dialog there is an empirically demonstrated
pressure to rewrite, instead of translate, the original dialog. There is no
fundamental principle that states that a dub must be more inaccurate to the
original than a subtitle, but there are strong reasons to believe that that
will be the result in many cases (and has been the case historically). We
can but hope that future dubbing efforts attempt to restrain their urges to
rewrite the script...
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <874188...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk>,
David G. Bell <db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <5vf1bk$m...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
> math...@ix.netcom.com(Ryan "Ryan Mathews" writes:
>
>> tsu...@wants.no.spam (Tsunami@Jyurai) writes:
>> >
>> >With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
>> >about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
>> >amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
>> >many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>> >providing the dubbing is done well?
>>
>> floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
>> good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
>> that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
>
>the story-telling, or even the story. Is somebody at Disney going to
>say, "we can't do this" and change things.
Well, that was the case in Wings of Honneamise: the dub was actually almost
beyond reproach right up to Shiro's speech from space (the conclusion of all
his character development). The Manga dub made some subtle alterations in
the religious flavor of his speech and made him end up sounding like a
Christian instead of what he sounded like in the original (gnostic? I'm
hard pressed for a specific label...) I can't say it wrecked the dub, but
it certainly left a different impression on the audience than, I would
imagine, the original or a well-done subtitle of the original, would have
done...
Derek Janssen
Mark L. Neidengard wrote:
>
> Dammit, the old flame war resurfaces...
>
> >> it's a dub, you lose the original voices that the writer intended.
> >
> >I had no idea that anime writers act as casting directors as well.
No, just large Japanese anime studios of several hundred talented
artists--But don't worry, they're foreigners...
> The screenplay authors may or may not have part of the seiyuu selection
> process as a whole, but I would guess that at least the director gets to pass
> judgement on the decisions of the casting folks...
>
> >Let me point out one thing that 99% of Western anime fans lose by
> >watching anime in Japanese: comprehension of the dialogue that the
> >writer intended. IMVHO, subtitles cannot take the place of
> >understanding the language - they cannot capture vocal nuances,
> >inflections, etc. And there's no rule that says that English VAs are
> >worse than Japanese VAs.
Subtitles work on almost subliminal level--something like that science
experiment you've seen where the word "green" is written in red and the
word "blue" is written in yellow, etc.:
We READ English words which our brain processes while we HEAR the
original VA in Japanese... Thinking back later, our memories somehow
remember the original VA's voice speaking the lines in English with
unduplicatable Japanese inflection--Nothing is lost.
> Subtitles are, of course, not a perfect substitute for understanding of the
> original language. BUT, dubs are often an even _worse_ substitute for
> understanding the original language, mainly because if someone is starting
> with a blank slate for the dialog there is an empirically demonstrated
> pressure to rewrite, instead of translate, the original dialog. We
> can but hope that future dubbing efforts attempt to restrain their urges to
> rewrite the script...
(No...must not invoke the name of Macek....Must not make joke about "I
am the Count...")
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
Kyle Nishioka
Robert van der Veeke (rjvv...@caiw.nl) wrote:
: Dwayne Gregory <ret...@gte.net> schreef in artikel
: > Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
: > just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
: > lds release for any other shows?
: For "Mononoko Hime", march next year, that is what the rumours are saying
: in the Netherlands.
The CNN article confirms this, but who knows what will happen between now
and March. I remember people saying (when the deal was first signed) that
the films were supposed to start coming out around now.
--
Kyle
nk...@hawaii.edu
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
#include <blue_ribbon>
Tsunami@Jyurai
Once upon a time in...@localnet.com (Invid fan) scribed carefuly:
>In article <874188...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk>, db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk
>wrote:
>> It needn't be extreme, but it could happen. I wouldn't be astonished if
>> names were changed to something less 'foreign' (which in reality means
>> less non-European, given the immigration to the USA), though I hope it
>> wouldn't be as clumsy as some of the more notorious examples.
>>
>I for one think at least one name should be changed: Sheeta. It's a tad too
>close to a certain four letter word :)
Well, the dub I have of Laputa has all the character names unchanged.
I would hve thought it unlikely that name changes are going to take
place, but you never know....
Tsunami@Jyurai
Once upon a time Bruce Tomlin <bto...@crl.com> scribed carefuly:
>[uk.media.animation.anime removed from followups]
>In rec.arts.anime.misc Ryan Mathews <math...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
>>floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
>>good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
>>that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
>Totoro is a good dub, except for that AWFUL kiddy theme song at the
>beginning! The singer's voice is so saccharine, it makes me cringe!
And very similar to the original voice, except not as saccharine!
Goes to show doesn't it?
>(I'm still debating whether or not to buy the LD, which is not only dubbed
>without alternate audio, but P&S too. Still, Totoro and Catbus do rule.)
hair...@utdallas.edu
David G. Bell (db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> The one doubt that I have, personally, is how the dubbing might alter
> the story-telling, or even the story. Is somebody at Disney going to
> say, "we can't do this" and change things.
No they won't. They can't. After being burned so badly by the "Warriors
of the Wind" the one unnegotiable point on any further English licensing
of Ghibli films was no cuts, no changes (not even to the music), just
an accurate translation. That was the reason that it's taken so long
for any US company to finally get these films. Go see the FAQ about the
Disney-Tokuma deal at www.nausicaa.net.
As for the dub, Disney is going to do a serious job on this. According
to the Miyazaki ML's inside Disney sources, the typical anime English dub
is a quickie job that costs about $30,000. Disney is spending almost ten
times this doing the "Mononoke Hime" dub. (I remember hearing Carl Macek
talking about the original dubs he did of "Totoro", "Laputa", "Kiki", and
"Porco" and saying that he rarely needed more than one or two takes for
each line. It's amazing the Totoro and Kiki dubs (which are generally
accepted as very good) came out as well as they did under the circumstances.)
Current reports in Japan and in the US trade papers are predicting a
March 98 release date for MH in the US.
Marc Hairston
Derek Janssen
Michael Yoong wrote:
>
> >: For "Mononoko Hime", march next year, that is what the rumours are saying
> >: in the Netherlands.
> >
> >The CNN article confirms this, but who knows what will happen between now
> >and March. I remember people saying (when the deal was first signed) that
> >the films were supposed to start coming out around now.
>
> I was there - they showed all the Miyazake animes on NHK to drum up
> interest, great!) in Japan hasn't it? Or have I gone through a time warp
> somewhen?
By the word "here", we mean the US--
(As with most things in the world, but Euros and Japanese possibly
know this already...) ; )
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
Michael Yoong
In article <5vh8ki$r...@news.Hawaii.Edu>, Kyle Nishioka <nk...@Hawaii.Edu>
writes
>
>: For "Mononoko Hime", march next year, that is what the rumours are saying
>: in the Netherlands.
>
>The CNN article confirms this, but who knows what will happen between now
>and March. I remember people saying (when the deal was first signed) that
>the films were supposed to start coming out around now.
Eh? But Mononoko Hime 's just come out (well a couple of months ago when
I was there - they showed all the Miyazake animes on NHK to drum up
interest, great!) in Japan hasn't it? Or have I gone through a time warp
somewhen?
Michael Yoong
Derek Janssen
> >beginning! The singer's voice is so saccharine, it makes me cringe!
>
> And very similar to the original voice, except not as saccharine!
> Goes to show doesn't it?
I'd still like to know the REAL lyrics to the "Totoro, To-to-ro" end
theme, however--since Macek's improvised blind guess tends to show its
cluelessness by the third chorus...
(Oh, and "Here's a picture Mei drew"?? Nice, Carl--Really DEEP
interpretation...)
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
hair...@utdallas.edu
Michael Yoong (Mic...@yoong.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> >The CNN article confirms this, but who knows what will happen between now
> >and March. I remember people saying (when the deal was first signed) that
> >the films were supposed to start coming out around now.
> Eh? But Mononoko Hime 's just come out (well a couple of months ago when
> I was there - they showed all the Miyazake animes on NHK to drum up
> interest, great!) in Japan hasn't it? Or have I gone through a time warp
> somewhen?
Things have moved fast in Japan. "Mononoke Hime" has already become
the highest grossing Japanese-made film ever released in Japan and will
soon (if it hasn't by now) surpass "E.T." which was the all time biggest
money maker in Japan.
Money talks in the film business, and the runaway success of MH has
encouraged Disney to push this film seriously. There was an article
about this in the Sept 8 issue of Time (international edition) and
you can find it at:
www.pathfinder.com/@@y3uRLQQA0gqG9MP5/time/magazine/1997/int/
970908/cinema2.html
Remember, this the *international* edition of Time, *not* the US edition
(although we hope it may yet appear in a later issue of the domestic
version here in the US).
Marc Hairston
Derek Janssen
hair...@utdallas.edu wrote:
>
> Things have moved fast in Japan. "Mononoke Hime" has already become
> the highest grossing Japanese-made film ever released in Japan and will
> soon (if it hasn't by now) surpass "E.T." which was the all time biggest
> money maker in Japan.
>
> Money talks in the film business, and the runaway success of MH has
> encouraged Disney to push this film seriously.
Conventional wisdom has it that ANY non-US all-time #1 champ
automatically gets US distribution, no matter how obscure/unmarketable/
debatable quality:
Australia's "Mad Max" (before we'd heard of Mel Gibson), for example,
New Zealand's otherwise difficult-to-market "Once Were Warriors", or
France's "Three Men and a Cradle"--
Even Japan's previous domestic champ, "Heaven and Earth"--an unstoppably
mediocre feudal epic--was given fanfare and major studio release when it
came here in 1990. (Don't feel bad if you happened to miss it...)
If MH had been #2 or 3, we might still be wondering--But with Disney,
money doesn't talk, it shouts, and one single word, spelled g-r-e-e-d.
(ESPECIALLY when it comes to something they already owned that happened
to hit it big--)
We may rest comfortably and wait for coming attractions. : )
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
David Crowe
Derek Janssen <dja...@ultranet.com> wrote:
: hair...@utdallas.edu wrote:
: >
: > Things have moved fast in Japan. "Mononoke Hime" has already become
: > the highest grossing Japanese-made film ever released in Japan and will
: > soon (if it hasn't by now) surpass "E.T." which was the all time biggest
: > money maker in Japan.
: >
: > Money talks in the film business, and the runaway success of MH has
: > encouraged Disney to push this film seriously.
: Conventional wisdom has it that ANY non-US all-time #1 champ
: automatically gets US distribution, no matter how obscure/unmarketable/
: debatable quality:
: Australia's "Mad Max" (before we'd heard of Mel Gibson), for example,
: New Zealand's otherwise difficult-to-market "Once Were Warriors", or
: France's "Three Men and a Cradle"--
: Even Japan's previous domestic champ, "Heaven and Earth"--an unstoppably
: mediocre feudal epic--was given fanfare and major studio release when it
: came here in 1990. (Don't feel bad if you happened to miss it...)
You forgot "Young Einstein!" Got to split that beer atom... :)
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman
You only read the manual when there's something you can't figure out. -Skuld
Jerry Shaw
Derek Janssen <dja...@ultranet.com> wrote:
>Tsunami@Jyurai wrote:
>>
>> Once upon a time Bruce Tomlin <bto...@crl.com> scribed carefuly:
>> >Totoro is a good dub, except for that AWFUL kiddy theme song at the
>> >beginning! The singer's voice is so saccharine, it makes me cringe!
>>
>> And very similar to the original voice, except not as saccharine!
>> Goes to show doesn't it?
>
>I'd still like to know the REAL lyrics to the "Totoro, To-to-ro" end
>theme, however--since Macek's improvised blind guess tends to show its
>cluelessness by the third chorus...
As far as I know, Carl and Streamline didn't have anything to do with the
translation for the song.
A few days before the original release in American theatres (Troma's
release?), I saw the English version of the film in a Little Tokyo theatre
special presentation here in Los Angeles. It had the new English lyrics to the
song.
The next weekend (I think it was), I talked with Fred Patten of Streamline and
commented that the singer they had used for the song had almost the same voice
as the Japanese singer. He said that Streamline's release only had the
Japanese version of the song. They had not done the song.
I was never able to find out what company did the new lyrics and song. If I
remember, I'll ask Carl the next time I see him, or Fred next week.
>Derek Janssen
Jerry
Derek Janssen
David Crowe wrote:
>
>> : > Things have moved fast in Japan. "Mononoke Hime" has already become
> : > the highest grossing Japanese-made film ever released in Japan and will
> : > soon (if it hasn't by now) surpass "E.T." which was the all time biggest
> : > money maker in Japan.
> : >
> : > Money talks in the film business, and the runaway success of MH has
> : > encouraged Disney to push this film seriously.
>
> : Conventional wisdom has it that ANY non-US all-time #1 champ
> : automatically gets US distribution, no matter how obscure/unmarketable/
> : debatable quality:
> : Australia's "Mad Max" (before we'd heard of Mel Gibson), for example,
> : New Zealand's otherwise difficult-to-market "Once Were Warriors", or
> : France's "Three Men and a Cradle"--
> : Even Japan's previous domestic champ, "Heaven and Earth"--an unstoppably
> : mediocre feudal epic--was given fanfare and major studio release when it
> : came here in 1990. (Don't feel bad if you happened to miss it...)
>
> You forgot "Young Einstein!" Got to split that beer atom... :)
Oh yes, of course, thanks--
Point proven: Name one other POSSIBLE excuse for a studio to bring Mr.
Serious to the US...
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
Invid fan
In article <341C88...@ultranet.com>, Derek Janssen
<dja...@ultranet.com> wrote:
> Even Japan's previous domestic champ, "Heaven and Earth"--an unstoppably
> mediocre feudal epic--was given fanfare and major studio release when it
> came here in 1990. (Don't feel bad if you happened to miss it...)
>
It lasted one week in Buffalo ^_^
Nyk Tarr
Once upon a time in the land of uk.media.animation.anime,
Ryan Mathews wrote:
> In <874171559.21070.2...@news.demon.co.uk>
> tsu...@wants.no.spam (Tsunami@Jyurai) writes:
>>
>>With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
>>about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
>>amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
>>many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
>>providing the dubbing is done well?
> Well, in my opinion, there are already a few damn near perfect dubs
> floating around out there. MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO and EL-HAZARD are two
> good examples. If the dub-haters hate these dubs, then I don't see
> that any dub Disney does is going to appease them.
...there aren't that many words in Totoro...
El Hazard's good tho'...
The problem with the (potential) Disney dub of Monoke Hime, is that
they have so far only dubbed childrens animation, usually dominated by
songs. It remains to be seem how they will cope with something that
is, by all accounts, rather more serious.
Nyk
--
____ _
/__ _]| http://www.tomobiki.demon.co.uk
/ \/ |_ | Rochdale, UK Team AMIGA
/ /\ _)| Find me on usenet: alt.games.mornington.cresent
--
AKURYOU FUJI NO OFUDAAAA!
Heffalump
To save you all embarrassment in the future...
>> >: For "Mononoko Hime", ...
>> Eh? But Mononoko Hime 's ...
It's not "Mononoko Hime," it's Mononoke Hime.
M O N O N O K E H I M E
...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
Sorry to be so picky about this, but I came across 3 misspellings of
"Mononoke Hime" on usenet in the last 5 minutes. If you have any further
questions, feel free to contact me directly. Again, "Mononoke Hime."
Thanks,
Mike A
P.S. "Homonoke Hime" is also wrong. ("homonoke"... geez... ^_^;; )
Robert van der Veeke
Heffalump <n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu> schreef in artikel
<n9344881.874307996@statler>...
It is Mononoke Hime, but have you seen the time that my message was posted,
7.26 on a sundaymorning is usually not the best time for me to do anything.
Kuno Christoffel
Heffalump (n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
> To save you all embarrassment in the future...
>
> >> >: For "Mononoko Hime", ...
> >> Eh? But Mononoko Hime 's ...
>
> It's not "Mononoko Hime," it's Mononoke Hime.
>
> M O N O N O K E H I M E
>
> ...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
> that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
> Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
>
> Sorry to be so picky about this, but I came across 3 misspellings of
> "Mononoke Hime" on usenet in the last 5 minutes. If you have any further
> questions, feel free to contact me directly. Again, "Mononoke Hime."
Chill, man. Of -course- we all know how to spell "Manmono Hime". What kind of
idiot has problems typing "Bakemono Hime", anyways? How -hard- is it to write
"Minkymomo Hime"? Personally, I am -totally- psyched for Badmojo Hime's
American release, know what I mean?
I've heard it's the best film Meozaki ever made...
--
Kuno Christoffel - de...@mail.wizard.net
http://www.wizard.net/~deva/
"Ooooh, Alphonse! He's so BIG and STRONG and ERECT!"
- Kuno Christoffel, on Patlabor
Jesse Smith
Derek Janssen <dja...@ultranet.com> writes:
> We READ English words which our brain processes while we HEAR the
> original VA in Japanese... Thinking back later, our memories somehow
> remember the original VA's voice speaking the lines in English with
> unduplicatable Japanese inflection--Nothing is lost.
Well, maybe *your* brain works like this, but not mine. If I watch a
sub, I hear the VA speaking Japanese. I read the subtitle and I
understand what the translation is. I can't describe it, but there's
a certain invisible barrier between me and the characters that doesn't
seem to exist when the VAs are speaking English. It's as if I have to
make an intellectual effort at linking the translation to the
original, whereas in English this all happens automatically and
subconsciously, and I can get into the story much easier.
Matter of taste, really. Why don't we drop this thread before it
degenerates into flamage?
--
Jesse Smith
jds...@wco.com
http://www.wco.com/~jdsmith/
"God's in His Heaven; all's right with the world." - Robert Browning
Tsunami@Jyurai
Thus far many of the replies to my original posting are basing their
opinions on past attempts at dubbing, whic have been at best,
praiseworthey, and at worst, diabolical. What I am saying is that
Disney have a chance with the forthcoming Miyazaki releases to set
that record straight (or at least a little straighter than has been
achieved so far).
Perhaps they will not kiddify the movies (pretty tricky with Mononoke
Hime), and make a decent job. It just seems that many of people who
have replied to the original posting are not willing to give them the
benefit of the doubt.
(and no, I am not a Disney lover)
Ian James Abbott
In article <n9344881.874307996@statler>, n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu
(Heffalump) writes:
>M O N O N O K E H I M E
>
>...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
>that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
>Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
>
Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
--
Ian James Abbott |*| "Konya wa 'Hurricane'!" -- Priss
i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk |*| "Konya wa shichuu kana?" -- Mink
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/3210/
Jesse Smith
mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard) writes:
> Dammit, the old flame war resurfaces...
Yes, which is why I didn't want to say anything, but oh well...
> Subtitles are, of course, not a perfect substitute for understanding of the
> original language. BUT, dubs are often an even _worse_ substitute for
> understanding the original language
I'm not talking about the original language. If you want to
understand the original language, learn Japanese and import
untranslated anime. I'm talking about "anime for the masses" - anime
that is meant to be enjoyed. In many cases, I find a dub more
entertaining than a sub - I find that I am able to lose myself more
fully in a story that is dubbed, I find subtitles mildly annoying in
the way they obscure the bottom 6th of the screen, etc. Why should I
subject myself to something I enjoy less? On principle?
> mainly because if someone is starting
> with a blank slate for the dialog there is an empirically demonstrated
> pressure to rewrite, instead of translate, the original dialog. There is no
> fundamental principle that states that a dub must be more inaccurate to the
> original than a subtitle, but there are strong reasons to believe that that
> will be the result in many cases (and has been the case
> historically).
I agree that the script should be changed as little as possible,
within the constraints of lip syncing and other timing concerns, and
the need to create natural, entertaining dialogue. Most dubs that I
have seen are reasonably consistant with their subtitled versions, at
least, though as far as I can tell with my admittedly limited skill at
Japanese, subtitles aren't always accurate, either. I think this is
the nature of the beast, as far as translating Japanese goes.
So, if you are a hardcore otaku who needs to know exactly what the
Japanese in Evangelion means, for example, there is a literal
translation on the net. Terrible English, but accurate, I believe.
On the other hand, if you are a casual anime aficionado (I hesitate to
say 'fan') who simply wants to enjoy a terrific show, I'd recommend
the dub. Both have their place.
Anime was, from the beginning, meant to be enjoyed. I think it's
great that people can do that in the West too, even without having to
spend 5 years learning Japanese.
Lum
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:45:02 -0400, in...@localnet.com (Invid fan)
wrote:
>I for one think at least one name should be changed: Sheeta. It's a tad too
>close to a certain four letter word :)
I disagree, changing the names is very annoying, often the names meen
stuff.
What would happened if they applied this everywhere, who would the
Krowats be fighting against then?
Lum
---------------
Oni wa soto...
...fuku wa uchi
hair...@utdallas.edu
Ian James Abbott (i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk) wrote:
> Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
No *official* word, but the "official English" title in Japan is "The
Princess Mononoke", so I'd be willing to bet that Disney sticks with
that. "Mononoke" is one of those Japanese words that doesn't translate
well into English, so leaving it in the title solves one problem and
also adds an air of "intriging foreigness" to the title.
(And there is 0.00% chance that Disney will call it "The Amazing Adventures
of San and Her White Wolf". ^_^ )
Marc Hairston
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <MPG.e871cbf6...@news.zippo.com>,
Kuno Christoffel <de...@mail.wizard.net> wrote:
>Heffalump (n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
>> To save you all embarrassment in the future...
>>
>> >> >: For "Mononoko Hime", ...
>> >> Eh? But Mononoko Hime 's ...
>>
>> It's not "Mononoko Hime," it's Mononoke Hime.
>>
>>
>> ...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
>> that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
>> Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
>>
>> "Mononoke Hime" on usenet in the last 5 minutes. If you have any further
>> questions, feel free to contact me directly. Again, "Mononoke Hime."
>
>Chill, man. Of -course- we all know how to spell "Manmono Hime". What kind of
> idiot has problems typing "Bakemono Hime", anyways? How -hard- is it to
> write "Minkymomo Hime"? Personally, I am -totally- psyched for Badmojo
> Hime's American release, know what I mean?
*choke* *wheeze* "Minkymomo Hime" *hack* *hurl*
>I've heard it's the best film Meozaki ever made...
*thud* *crash*
Ru Igarashi
Tsunami@Jyurai (tsu...@wants.no.spam) wrote:
>Thus far many of the replies to my original posting are basing their
>opinions on past attempts at dubbing, whic have been at best,
>praiseworthey, and at worst, diabolical. What I am saying is that
>Disney have a chance with the forthcoming Miyazaki releases to set
>that record straight (or at least a little straighter than has been
>achieved so far).
>Perhaps they will not kiddify the movies (pretty tricky with Mononoke
>Hime), and make a decent job. It just seems that many of people who
>have replied to the original posting are not willing to give them the
>benefit of the doubt.
>(and no, I am not a Disney lover)
And there is good reason for those who don't trust dubs at all.
Given the choice of a transcription that OVERWRITES ALL information
with new information (dubs) and a transcription that ADDS some
explanatory information (subs) to the original information, there
is no contest. Subtitling interferes the least, misinterprets
nuances the least, and provides a backup for interpretation the
most. This isn't simply a matter of past versus future, this is
an issue of languages and the willingness (or unwillingness) to
accept a "new" version over the original. It doesn't matter how
good a job a company does on a dub, because a fault in the rewrite
is bound to be in there.
On the matter of whether or not a well done dub will change anything,
that is debatable. There have been plenty of foreign films with very
good dubbing, but they haven't done all that much for the foreign
film industry in North America in general. As big as Disney seems,
I don't think a good dub of MH is going to mean much to the average
viewer or to the industry. At best, it will probably be perceived
more like a domestic release; it's origin won't matter all that much.
That problem might even be attributed to the fact that it's a dub
("gee it's in English, so it must be a Disney production").
ru
Nyk Tarr
Once upon a time in the land of uk.media.animation.anime,
Ian James Abbott wrote:
> In article <n9344881.874307996@statler>, n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu
> (Heffalump) writes:
>>M O N O N O K E H I M E
>>
>>...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
>>that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
>>Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
>>
> Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
Beauty and the Beast 2? ^_^
BTW alternate trans: Hairy Princess
Nyk
--
____ _
/__ _]| http://www.tomobiki.demon.co.uk
/ \/ |_ | Rochdale, UK Team AMIGA
/ /\ _)| Find me on usenet: alt.games.mornington.cresent
--
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <s5m67s2...@shell.wco.com>,
Jesse Smith <jds...@shell.wco.com> wrote:
>mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard) writes:
>
>> Subtitles are, of course, not a perfect substitute for understanding of the
>> original language. BUT, dubs are often an even _worse_ substitute for
>> understanding the original language
>
>I'm not talking about the original language. If you want to
>understand the original language, learn Japanese and import
>untranslated anime. I'm talking about "anime for the masses" - anime
>that is meant to be enjoyed. In many cases, I find a dub more
>entertaining than a sub - I find that I am able to lose myself more
>fully in a story that is dubbed, I find subtitles mildly annoying in
>the way they obscure the bottom 6th of the screen, etc. Why should I
>subject myself to something I enjoy less? On principle?
Well, the trouble is that anime in its _original_ form is intended for the
masses...just that the masses in question happen to be the Japanese audience.
The principle I've been operating on is that the American audience, if they
could overcome the language barrier and perhaps some cultural obstacles, should
enjoy the original material every bit as much as the Japanese audience. If
given the choice between a translation that brought the fans to the anime, and
a dub that rewrote parts of the story and brought the anime to the fans, I'd
_greatly_ prefer the former on the general principles of preserving the
original creators' intent and broadening the audience's cultural horizons.
[munch]
>So, if you are a hardcore otaku who needs to know exactly what the
>Japanese in Evangelion means, for example, there is a literal
>translation on the net. Terrible English, but accurate, I believe.
>On the other hand, if you are a casual anime aficionado (I hesitate to
>say 'fan') who simply wants to enjoy a terrific show, I'd recommend
>the dub. Both have their place.
>
>Anime was, from the beginning, meant to be enjoyed. I think it's
>great that people can do that in the West too, even without having to
>spend 5 years learning Japanese.
My contention is that this understanding can be done with a subtitle, and
possibly to better effect, than a dub. But, if people are willing to
deliberately sacrifice the original soundtrack, that's their business. =|
stanlee
On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Tsunami@Jyurai wrote:
> Thus far many of the replies to my original posting are basing their
> opinions on past attempts at dubbing, whic have been at best,
> praiseworthey, and at worst, diabolical. What I am saying is that
> Disney have a chance with the forthcoming Miyazaki releases to set
> that record straight (or at least a little straighter than has been
> achieved so far).
> Perhaps they will not kiddify the movies (pretty tricky with Mononoke
> Hime), and make a decent job. It just seems that many of people who
>
An option Disney has
is to release those "more mature"
Miyazaki films under the label of
one of their subsidiaries (Miramax, Buena Vista, etc).
Disney already exercised that option
when they released the live-action film "Shall We Dance?"
under the Miramax label in the USA this summer.
That way, Disney won't need to "kiddify" any film
- which they CANNOT do anyway under the Disney-Tokuma deal.
Laters.
Stan
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \____|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita http://www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
| ( _| | Univ. of Rochester
\ ______| _______ ____ ___ sd0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | sta...@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
/___/\/\___\__| |__|___| \____|
fs...@uaf.edu
In article <341d6d28...@perfect.airtime.co.uk>, i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk
says...
>
>In article <n9344881.874307996@statler>, n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu
>(Heffalump) writes:
>
(snip)
>>...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
(snip)
>Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
>
Let's see...
"The Little Mermaid," "Beauty and the Beast," and "Pocahontas."
Right, I got it!
"The Little Beast Mononoke"
(The following is a fabrication and reflects opinions held by the writer)
A Cartoon made by some Japanese guy. You know, until recently we here at Disney
didn't know anything about this A-ne-may stuff from Japan! We swear that the
"Lion King" is an original production of ours! Really! Do you think we are
nuts enough that we would let our "instant classics" play "second banana" to
some Japanese cartoon that doesn't have the Eisner seal of approval! Ha! Let's
see. We'll release it to video pan and scan, with some ok english dialog, and
hopefully it will be so obscure that no man, woman, or child in their right mind
will betray our conditioning and watch anything but pure Disney! Ha ha ha!
(She has blood on her face, did you parents know that! And nobody sings! Now,
is that a family movie?)
-Carlos
stanlee
On 14 Sep 1997 hair...@utdallas.edu wrote:
>
> Money talks in the film business, and the runaway success of MH has
> encouraged Disney to push this film seriously. There was an article
> about this in the Sept 8 issue of Time (international edition) and
> you can find it at:
>
> www.pathfinder.com/@@y3uRLQQA0gqG9MP5/time/magazine/1997/int/
> 970908/cinema2.html
>
> Remember, this the *international* edition of Time, *not* the US edition
> (although we hope it may yet appear in a later issue of the domestic
> version here in the US).
>
For those not able to read it
(for some reason or another),
here's the aforementioned article:
****************************************
CINEMA SEPTEMBER 8, 1997 VOL. 150 NO. 10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Girl Meets Wolf
A veteran cartoonist strikes box-office gold with Princess Mononoke
BY SEBASTIAN MOFFETT/TOKYO
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cartoons are normally light-hearted fare, providing laughs or
action-packed thrills to kids (and increasingly adults), though not much
depth. But animator Hayao Miyazaki has far deeper ambitions. The
56-year-old director has built an impressive career producing high-quality
cartoons that go way beyond the standard slapstick or knight-slays-dragon
genres. Instead, he manages to create morally complex narratives within a
vivid animated world. His latest hit is Princess Mononoke, an epic tale of
the struggle between nature and civilization. "If you're looking just for
box office sales," he recently told Japan's SPA! magazine, "you can follow
the usual methods, like a sword-fight climax and a happy ending where the
baddies get defeated. I wanted to make the audience think."
Miyazaki has done just that--and scored big at the box office. Last week,
the film became Japan's most successful home-grown release ever. In the 44
days after its July 12 release it raked in $53 million. And, unlike the
previous record holder, the treacly 1983 animal flick Antarctic Story,
this one is a hit with critics. Princess Mononoke has won praise for
portraying pre-industrial Japan without relying on the usual cast of noble
warriors and mean-spirited farmers. "Princess Mononoke has certainly
broken the spell of the Seven Samurai," says Tadao Sato, one of Japan's
most prominent film critics. "It has created a new direction for period
dramas."
Set among thatched villages in 14th-century Japan, Princess Mononoke
portrays a running battle between iron workers and the animals and spirits
who populate the nearby forest. The Tatara clan, led by the beautiful and
domineering Lady Eboshi, mines the surrounding hills and cuts down trees
to fire the furnaces where they make weapons. Opposing their industries
are a 300-year-old wolf, her cubs and Princess Mononoke, a young girl who
possesses the ability to communicate with spirits. Angered by the
destruction of their patrimony, they lead several attacks on the village.
The film climaxes when a lion god, decapitated by the Tatara, transforms
into a vengeful demon who terrorizes the village.
Eco-fable the film may be, but Miyazaki avoids serving up simplistic
lessons. Far from evil precursors of a machine-dominated future, the clan
consists of lepers and women freed from bonded prostitution whom Lady
Eboshi has taken under her wing. So, while the film contains 1990s
environmental messages, the Tatara are not senseless destroyers: their
work helps people who could not normally make do. The dilemma is that of
civilization itself. "If you start talking about what is right and what is
wrong, human existence itself can be wrong," Miyazaki recently told
Yomiuri Shimbun. "Human beings are oppressive and cruel, but they have to
live."
Although Miyazaki is one of Japan's most successful filmmakers--his past
six movies have all been top-grossing titles--the animator says he plans
to retire from mainstream filmmaking. A workaholic with floppy gray hair,
Miyazaki's first met international acclaim in 1984 with Nausicaa of the
Valley of Wind. This too had an ecological theme: a young girl's struggle
to survive in a poisoned world inhabited by warring tribes and giant
mutant insects. His most recent production was the 1992 The Crimson Pig,
the 1992 tale of a World War I aviator reincarnated as a porker. In
Mononoke, the director takes animation to new heights, creating a
sumptuous rendition of Japan's medieval countryside. The images derive in
part from a trip he and his team of animators took to Yakushima, an island
off southern Kyushu known for its ancient forests. All told the movie took
three years to make and cost $20 million, twice what is usual for a
full-length Japanese animation. Miyazaki used computer graphics for the
first time, giving the film a fluidity and realism resembling Disney
productions.
That's as far as the resemblance goes, however. Miyazaki has always
admired the Disney look, but not its trademark happy endings and blatant
demarcation of good and evil. "I hate Disney films," he wrote in the 1988
book Modern Japanese Cinema. "They seem like nothing but contempt for the
audience." Lately, though, Miyazaki has made peace with the U.S. media
giant. Good thing: his success outside Japan depends largely on Disney,
which distributes productions of his Studio Ghibli overseas. Princess
Mononoke opened to screens in Hong Kong and Taiwan last month and is
scheduled for release in the U.S. next year as Princess Ghost. Until then,
the skinny princess is waging battle back home against a powerful
alien--E.T., holder of Japan's overall box office record.
--Reported by Hiroko Tashiro
**************************************************
Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen
>Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
>just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
>lds release for any other shows?
Until now, only Momonoke Hime. I think it will be on theaters in december.
Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
this movie? It has a lot...
Antonius K
Rob Jarero
Have you actually seen what Disney's done to the anime stuff? I mean,
they recently released a dubbing of SailorMoon (true, it wasn't THEM who
dubbed it), but there were notable edits in the cartoon. Now, what I'm
not worried about is whether they'll do a good dubbing, but if they'll
leave the movies alone. That is, as long as they don't cut out scenes to
fit their little "wholesome family entertainment" mold, I'm happy. Bad
dubbing may be inevitable, but I'm taking the hope for the best route on
that one. But when I think what Disney may do to a movie like Ninja
Scroll, for example.. I get chills down my spine.. Well.. upset, anyway.
Rob J
Rob Jarero
Now I wish I'd read this BEFORE I posted *sheepish grin*...
Jason Martens
>Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
>this movie? It has a lot...
Nothing. By the terms of the Tokuma deal, Disney is bound from
editing even 1 second from the works. Miyazaki was very explicit on
that point. They can't change it if they want to. Disney may release
it as a PG (or even PG-13) film, but that's about all they can do.
Jason Martens
marte...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nyk Tarr
Once upon a time in the land of uk.media.animation.anime,
Trey Causey wrote:
> In article <874188...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk>, db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk
> wrote:
>> It needn't be extreme, but it could happen. I wouldn't be astonished if
>> names were changed to something less 'foreign' (which in reality means
>> less non-European, given the immigration to the USA), though I hope it
>> wouldn't be as clumsy as some of the more notorious examples.
>>
>> But where's the limit? I haven't seen any of the recent Disney films.
>> Can you imagine Disney putting out Porco Rosso without some changes?
>> They ought to be able to, but I'm out of touch with their standards.
> It was my understanding that Disney is not allowed to alter the story in
> any shape or form other than dubbing it. That's just what my impression
> was. I'm sure some changes could be made and said it was "impossible not
> to for the dub to work." Something like that anyway...
The obvious solution to this for a company like Disney is not to
release it at all; simply buy out the contract.
Nyk
--
____ _
/__ _]| http://www.tomobiki.demon.co.uk
/ \/ |_ | mailto: N...@tomobiki.demon.co.uk Team AMIGA
/ /\ _)| Find me on usenet: alt.games.mornington.cresent
WINGS OF HONNEAMISE: Man trains to become astronaut.
Heffalump
r...@skatter.usask.ca (Ru Igarashi) writes:
>is no contest. Subtitling interferes the least, misinterprets
>nuances the least, and provides a backup for interpretation the
I was watching a Mizoguchi (sp?) film the other day -- "Osaka Elegy," I
think -- and the subtitling was horrible. Poor English grammar,
incomplete sentences, mistranlslations, misleading translations, bad
timing, even a long (~10 minute) passage involving a puppet play where
*none* of the dialogue was translated. I've seen other live action films
in this sort of shape. I've seen anime fansubs that were better. Heck,
I've seen few anime fansubs that were worse!
The small companies translating and releasing anime here give us pretty
well translated products, for the most part. We've got to remember
though, the quality of the subtitle depends a great deal on the subtitler.
(But of course only *because* it was a sub I was able to notice all the
mistakes & figure out what was really going on.)
Mike A
Invid fan
In article <1398.198T21...@tomobiki.demon.co.uk>, "Nyk Tarr"
<N...@tomobiki.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The obvious solution to this for a company like Disney is not to
> release it at all; simply buy out the contract.
>
Disney is making money re-releasing Studio Ghibli films in Japan. They can
make more money, with a minimum expense, by releasing them here. Even if
they're flops, it's in their interest to bring them out so as to not upset
their Japanese partners.
David Crowe
Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen <an...@bac.simplenet.com> wrote:
: >Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
: >just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
: >lds release for any other shows?
: Until now, only Momonoke Hime. I think it will be on theaters in december.
: Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
: this movie? It has a lot...
How violent is it? Clearly more violent than a Disney film, but that
doesn't take much. Is it Ranma level violence? Guyver level? Ninja
Scroll level? Clue me in.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman
You only read the manual when there's something you can't figure out. -Skuld
JNG
David Crowe wrote:
>
> Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen <an...@bac.simplenet.com> wrote:
>
> : >Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
> : >just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
> : >lds release for any other shows?
>
> : Until now, only Momonoke Hime. I think it will be on theaters in december.
>
> : Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
> : this movie? It has a lot...
>
> How violent is it? Clearly more violent than a Disney film, but that
> doesn't take much. Is it Ranma level violence? Guyver level? Ninja
> Scroll level? Clue me in.
>
> It's clearly the most graphically violent of all the Ghilbi films. One of the main characters goes around taking off the heads ands limbs of his enemies with one shot from his bow.(-check out the preview movs) Disney definitely won't have the balls to release this under their own label because it'll at least get a PG-13 rating or possibly R for violence, which will put off Disney's usual audience. Disney really should release some of the earlier films like Nausica and Laputa theatrically first, in order to generate interest. Otherwise, Mononoke's violence and ancient Japanese setting will have main stream audiences lumping all the Ghilbi films into the "all Japanimation is sex and violence category", despite how good they are. If that's the case, Mononoke will only have art-house/Ghost in the Shell type success.
-JNG
"F**k you Disney if there are no subtitled versions"(-and f**k you even
if there are.)
JNG
David Crowe wrote:
>
> Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen <an...@bac.simplenet.com> wrote:
>
> : >Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
> : >just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
> : >lds release for any other shows?
>
> : Until now, only Momonoke Hime. I think it will be on theaters in december.
>
> : Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
> : this movie? It has a lot...
>
> How violent is it? Clearly more violent than a Disney film, but that
> doesn't take much. Is it Ranma level violence? Guyver level? Ninja
> Scroll level? Clue me in.
>
It's clearly the most graphically violent of all the Ghilbi films. One
of the main characters goes around taking off the heads and limbs of his
enemies with one shot from his bow.(-check out the preview movs) Disney
definitely won't have the balls to release this under their own label
because it'll at least get a PG-13 rating or possibly R for violence,
which will put off Disney's usual audience. Disney really should release
some of the earlier films like Nausica or Laputa theatrically first, in
order to generate interest. Otherwise, Mononoke's violence and ancient
Japanese setting will have main stream audiences lumping all the Ghilbi
films into the "all Japanimation is sex and violence" category, despite
Peter Choi
On 16 Sep 1997 19:19:00 -0700, David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com>
wrote:
>Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen <an...@bac.simplenet.com> wrote:
>
>: >Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
>: >just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
>: >lds release for any other shows?
>
>: Until now, only Momonoke Hime. I think it will be on theaters in december.
>
>: Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
>: this movie? It has a lot...
>
>How violent is it? Clearly more violent than a Disney film, but that
>doesn't take much. Is it Ranma level violence? Guyver level? Ninja
>Scroll level? Clue me in.
>
>
>--
>David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman
>
>You only read the manual when there's something you can't figure out. -Skuld
>
Bllod, gore, heads and limbs, period. :)
Wei-Hwa Huang
i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk (Ian James Abbott) writes:
>In article <n9344881.874307996@statler>, n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu
>(Heffalump) writes:
>>M O N O N O K E H I M E
>>
>>...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
>>that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
>>Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
>>
>Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
Well:
"Mono" = object, thing
"noke" (from "nokeru") = remove, omit, ostracise, jigger
"hime" = princess
So,
"Mononoke Hime" = The Thingamajigger Princess ;-)
(The preceding has been a joke, for the humor impaired.)
--
Wei-Hwa Huang, whu...@ugcs.caltech.edu, http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"[Lucy's eyes] look like little round dots of India ink..." -- Charlie Brown
Innpchan
In article <5vkshl$ftq$1...@jazz.cr-df.rnp.br>, "Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen"
<an...@bac.simplenet.com> writes:
>
>Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
>this movie? It has a lot...
>
>
From the July 20 Newsweek Japan article:
-----------------------
Last July Disney struck a
deal with Tokuma Shoten to release Miyazaki's "Momonoke Hime"
in Western markets, and to dub and distribute other Miyazaki features on
video, for
an initial payment estimated at between $10 and $30 million. The
marriage hasn't always seemed a happy one. Miyazaki himself walked out
of the post-press conference reception. And Disney executives were reportedly
dismayed when they sat down for their first screening of "Momonoke
Hime," only to see severed heads and limbs flying in gory
combat. But while that kind of content is hardly Disney's style, the company
has swallowed hard, and pushed ahead. "We're really doing very
little to Miyazaki's films except to put them into English, and to use very
high quality voice talent," says one Disney staffer working on
the project.
-----------------------------------
thepig
*****
"Homonookie Hinie"? Ghibli's doing bishonen now?
(Don't worry-- one or two days, TOPS.)
*****
C.J. Scott --the pig
Wei-Hwa Huang
David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com> writes:
>How violent is it? Clearly more violent than a Disney film, but that
>doesn't take much. Is it Ranma level violence? Guyver level? Ninja
>Scroll level? Clue me in.
Excerpt From Today's Washington Post (available at www.washingtonpost.com):
(9/17/97)
The movie is very violent. Heads and arms are lopped off left and right,
and blood is splattered about liberally. One of the leading characters
takes a musket ball directly through his midsection, and the initial
splash of blood and flesh is followed by gobs of blood spilled all
over the screen. The wolves and other creatures wounded in fierce
battle scenes vomit blood and gunk.
The story is compelling and interesting, but parents who won't let their
kids see "Die Hard" might have the same concerns about "The Princess
Mononoke," unless it is edited for American audiences.
Eric The Read
JNG <jng...@peakaccess.net.antispammer> writes:
> David Crowe wrote:
<some useful info about Minkymomo Hime snipped>
> "F**k you Disney if there are no subtitled versions"(-and f**k you even
> if there are.)
I sure hope you're joking about this. I understand Disney is going to
release LDs of this (like they do everything else), and rumor has it the
analog tracks will have Japanese dialogue, and the dub track script will
be on CC.
Me, I *want* a subtitled version. I don't know what the aspect ratio of
Mononoke Hime is, but if it supports it, I *really* want a letterboxed
version done like the Akira special edition sub-- with the film moved up
so that the sub fits in the clipped area.
But I hardly think it's Disney's obligation to me to produce such a
thing. Think about it. The reason Tokuma signed the deal with Disney
was to take advantage of Disney's insanely huge marketing and
distribution channels. Given that, how likely is it that Disney is going
to waste (by their perceptions) their time producing a subtitled release
that MAYBE a few thousand people in the US will buy, versus a dubbed
version that ideally a few million will buy?
Hrm...
-=Eric
Ming Yau So
>Excerpt From Today's Washington Post (available at www.washingtonpost.com):
>(9/17/97)
...
>The story is compelling and interesting, but parents who won't let their
>kids see "Die Hard" might have the same concerns about "The Princess
>Mononoke," unless it is edited for American audiences.
^^^^^^^^
I think if the news article change the above underlined word to "paranoia",
it would be more appropriate.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ming Yau So | Support the KOR TV petition effort, visit the webpage at
min...@netcom.com | <http://www.animeigo.com/Products/Videos/All/~KOR.html>
| for more details and sign-up for pre-orders.
fs...@uaf.edu
All of this is IMHO...
In article <19970917184...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, innp...@aol.com
says...
>
>In article <5vkshl$ftq$1...@jazz.cr-df.rnp.br>, "Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen"
><an...@bac.simplenet.com> writes:
I am starting to notice an almost paranoid aversion to "violence" when it comes
to "Mononke Hime." "It's too violent!" whine, whine! It is clear to me that
the movie is about War and, I'm sorry my little mouseketeers, War is violent.
War is bloody, cruel, and sadistic. Some people have this mental block about
what Disney and animation is supposed to be and cannot come to grips with the
fact that a movie like "Mononoke" (which to my opinion promises to be the most
meaninful, intense, and influential movie in a long time) can be made.
Sadly, when it comes out, narrow minded individuals will deny it because "it's
too violent! whine, whine!" and will miss its message and ultimate purpose.
Ignorance rules in America!
Studio Ghibli towers over disney in my book!
>>
>>Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
>>this movie? It has a lot...
So what!? Life is violent! Get over it!! The movie is more than about
violence! People who don't know about Miyazaki (that means, the mayority of
dopes in America) will say "It's too violent! grunt, grunt!
>>
>
>From the July 20 Newsweek Japan article:
>-----------------------
>marriage hasn't always seemed a happy one. Miyazaki himself walked out
>of the post-press conference reception.
Good for you Miyazaki-san!!
>And Disney executives were reportedly
>dismayed when they sat down for their first screening of "Momonoke
>Hime," only to see severed heads and limbs flying...
Ha ha ha! I would have loved to see their faces! Proof that they had no idea
who they were dealing with!
-Carlos
mindrvlt
Eric The Read (emsc...@mail.uccs.edu) wrote:
<snip>
: But I hardly think it's Disney's obligation to me to produce such a
: thing. Think about it. The reason Tokuma signed the deal with Disney
: was to take advantage of Disney's insanely huge marketing and
: distribution channels. Given that, how likely is it that Disney is going
: to waste (by their perceptions) their time producing a subtitled release
: that MAYBE a few thousand people in the US will buy, versus a dubbed
: version that ideally a few million will buy?
This really scares me. I wonder how many companies(ie. Manga)think this
and are dying for an excuse to kill off subs... Since all the money is in
dubbed tapes anyway...
-Felix
fvi...@terra.cnct.com
Jinzo17
"Nyk Tarr" <N...@tomobiki.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Once upon a time in the land of uk.media.animation.anime,
>Trey Causey wrote:
>> It was my understanding that Disney is not allowed to alter the story in
>> any shape or form other than dubbing it. That's just what my impression
>> was. I'm sure some changes could be made and said it was "impossible not
>> to for the dub to work." Something like that anyway...
That's correct. Apparently this all goes back to the "Warriors of the Wind"
fiasco. Miyazaki was NOT happy about what New Line did to Nausicaa.
That's why only two other Ghibli films have been released in the US since:
Totoro, and Grave of the Fireflies.
Part of the deal with Disney is that they CANNOT change ANYTHING.
The music, animation, and plot cannot be edited or altered in any way.
Miyazaki was pretty adament about it, from what I hear.
Disney can only redub the voices in English.
(Which means they will most likely release them under a seperate studio name,
like Touchstone, or Miramax. They may even create a new "division" just to do
the Ghibli films.)
>The obvious solution to this for a company like Disney is not to
>release it at all; simply buy out the contract.
There are, from time to time, good reasons to do this. ADV has done this with
certain titles. The reason is that they intend to release them, but they don't
want to flood the market, and end up injuring their OWN sales. (If someone buys
a copy of the new EVA tape instead of the new Blueseed tape, for instance.)
Disney stands to gain little by sitting on the Ghibli films. The only reason to
do that is to elliminate competition with their films. But the animation market
is growing, particularly children's or family-oriented animation. Not all of the
Ghibli films will be considered "acceptable" for US children, but enough of them
are to warrent Disney getting involved.
Frankly I have more faith in Disney doing a good dub (what with the current
restrictions they are under) than I would have in anyone else.
-Jinzo 17
Vice-President of the S.J.A.S.: http://www.voicenet.com/~aegis
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop
functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead.
Believe in nothing..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Yatsuhashi
If it's any comfort, Disney was the first american company out there to
recognize the importance of using superior voice actors. In a dubbed
version, the big if is how it will be translated. If it's true to the
original, with great voice actors, I wouldn't mind that much. Look at
Star Blazers. Most U.S. anime fans fell in love with the dubbed
version, then moved into anime fandom, and probably into subs. Don't get
me wrong, I go for the subs every time, and I hope Disney has enough
respect for the artist to do the movie justice and release it as
Miyazaki intended. (Imagine if someone tried to mess with one of their
animated films....lawsuit). Still, if they bring in top quality actors
in a decently translated dub... would that be so bad, IMHO? Anyway, I'd
be pretty happy to see an LD version of Laputa and Nausica done for the
American market.
Just my opinion.
Eric The Read
fvi...@cnct.com (mindrvlt) writes:
> Eric The Read (emsc...@mail.uccs.edu) wrote:
> <snip>
> : But I hardly think it's Disney's obligation to me to produce such a
> : thing. Think about it. The reason Tokuma signed the deal with Disney
> : was to take advantage of Disney's insanely huge marketing and
> : distribution channels. Given that, how likely is it that Disney is going
> : to waste (by their perceptions) their time producing a subtitled release
> : that MAYBE a few thousand people in the US will buy, versus a dubbed
> : version that ideally a few million will buy?
>
> This really scares me. I wonder how many companies(ie. Manga)think this
> and are dying for an excuse to kill off subs... Since all the money is in
> dubbed tapes anyway...
I'm not really worried about the anime companies ditching subs. Look at
it this way: they know subs have a guaranteed market. Not a large
market, to be sure, but there is a group of fans who won't buy dubbed
anime, and companies know this. They also know their margins are larger
on subbed tapes.
In short, they know they can always make $x on subs. Disney, OTOH, has
no experience whatsoever with anime fans, and given the massive scale
upon which they distribute tapes, the extra profit they garner will most
likely be lost in overhead. So they don't really know there's a culture
that expects subtitled anime-- and consequently, they won't send their
marketing tentacles (it's a JOKE guys! sheesh....) out that way.
Manga simply can't sell millions of copies of a single title. So they
need the extra profit subs can give to guarantee a certain level of money
made per title.
Or so I see it.
-=Eric
Tsunami@Jyurai
Once upon a time hair...@utdallas.edu () scribed carefuly:
>Ian James Abbott (i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk) wrote:
>> Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
>No *official* word, but the "official English" title in Japan is "The
>Princess Mononoke", so I'd be willing to bet that Disney sticks with
>that. "Mononoke" is one of those Japanese words that doesn't translate
>well into English, so leaving it in the title solves one problem and
>also adds an air of "intriging foreigness" to the title.
>(And there is 0.00% chance that Disney will call it "The Amazing Adventures
>of San and Her White Wolf". ^_^ )
Or perhaps Due South?
"You will never amount to very much"
Munich schoolmaster to Albert Einstein, aged 10.
http://www.jyurai.demon.co.uk/ tsu...@jyurai.demon.co.uk
Invid fan
> This really scares me. I wonder how many companies(ie. Manga)think this
> and are dying for an excuse to kill off subs... Since all the money is in
> dubbed tapes anyway...
>
If that's the case, why is Manga releasing Giant Robo *subbed* this month?
Subs are a cash cow, if the company is willing to market them as a
specialty item. With regards to Disney, I was heartened by the fact that
they released a letterboxed version of Sleeping Beauty this week (and it
sold out at media play the first day). This is the first time they've done
this, and couple that with their LD boxed sets makes me think that a sub
isn't out of the question. It'll cost us, but they'll release it.
Richard Beaubien
On 16 Sep 1997, Nyk Tarr wrote:
> > It was my understanding that Disney is not allowed to alter the story in
> > any shape or form other than dubbing it. That's just what my impression
> > was. I'm sure some changes could be made and said it was "impossible not
> > to for the dub to work." Something like that anyway...
>
> The obvious solution to this for a company like Disney is not to
> release it at all; simply buy out the contract.
I dunno, I always thought Diseny picked up the Tokuma films just to sit on
them, since most of the Miyazaki stuff does destroy most of the latest
Disney films in quality (except Toy Story..Which was more Pixar than
Disney...). That and the success of the Miyazaki stuff might actually mean
Disney would have to make a non-musical movie which Disney might not be
able to do...
But then again that's just speculation on my part. With all the hype for
Monmoke Hime coming out in NA and all the money it's making, Disney will
probably release the film. Uncut too, since any butchering of Miyazaki
might not go well over in Japan (add to that the problems of the Lion King
and Kimba and you might see one messy PR problem for Disney...)
Ja ne!!
Richard Beaubien
----------------
Mizuno Ami-chan forever!!!
Fanfic homepage http://www.anime.usacomputers.net/~beaubird
Gruhn
>some Japanese cartoon that doesn't have the Eisner seal of approval! Ha!
Let's
I always try to remember that Berke Breathed called him "The Man from
Accounting".
>And nobody sings! Now, is that a family movie?
Henh henh.
Nyk Tarr
Once upon a time in the land of uk.media.animation.anime,
Wei-Hwa Huang wrote:
> i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk (Ian James Abbott) writes:
>>In article <n9344881.874307996@statler>, n934...@statler.cc.wwu.edu
>>(Heffalump) writes:
>>>M O N O N O K E H I M E
>>>
>>>...spells Mononoke Hime, the title of MIYAZAKI Hayao's latest film. If
>>>that's a problem, "M.H." or even an English title -- Spirit Princess,
>>>Princess Ghost, etc. -- should do.
>>>
>>Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
> Well:
> "Mono" = object, thing
> "noke" (from "nokeru") = remove, omit, ostracise, jigger
> "hime" = princess
> So,
> "Mononoke Hime" = The Thingamajigger Princess ;-)
> (The preceding has been a joke, for the humor impaired.)
indeed...
I seem to remember trying (with my minimal Japanese) to translate the
kanji, and it actually read as...
mono - person/thing
no - of
ke - hair
hime - prncess
hence - the hairy princess.
(This may, or may not, have been a joke...)
Nyk
--
____ _
/__ _]| http://www.tomobiki.demon.co.uk
/ \/ |_ | mailto: N...@tomobiki.demon.co.uk Team AMIGA
/ /\ _)| Find me on usenet: alt.games.mornington.cresent
BRAIN: Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission,
remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to
Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?
PINKY: Mmmm, no, Brain, don't think I can.
Rik Newman
On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:38:29 GMT, b...@gunk.demon.co.uk (Ben Carter)
wrote:
> Er.. I thought that *was* the case for Tenchi, at least for the songs
>if not the actual episodes... (BTW - I haven't seen the end of the
>series, so I could be entirely wrong. I was sure someone told me that,
>though)
The songs?- I haven't seen the dub so I don't know. Only song I know
that had an "accurate" English version was Voices from Macross Plus,
as they got one of the real Sharon Apple's to sing an English version
(the one that speaks English obviously ^_^). And it doesn't half annoy
me that it wasn't put on any of the CD's. With MacPlus international
version (with the English Voices) out in Japan, it amazes me even
more! Mind you the less said about MacPlus soundtrack wrangles the
better probably! :)
-Rik "Basara"
*******Fave Game of the moment: Virtual On (SS)*********
"It was the year of FIRE"
"Hiwo TSU-KE-RO!" Dolphan for life
See the new and improved Fire Bomber web site:
http://www.shef.ac.uk/~aas/rik/firebomber/fire0.html
***Fave Song of the moment: Star Bright (Gundam 0083)***
Prabal Nandy
In article <5vpmgr$4...@drn.zippo.com>, <fs...@uaf.edu> wrote:
>I am starting to notice an almost paranoid aversion to "violence" when it comes
>to "Mononke Hime." "It's too violent!" whine, whine! It is clear to me that
>the movie is about War and, I'm sorry my little mouseketeers, War is violent.
>War is bloody, cruel, and sadistic. Some people have this mental block about
>what Disney and animation is supposed to be and cannot come to grips with the
Well, those are the people that FUND Disney, and in this modern world of
"Violence on TV makes my kid do bad in school", and rabid parent's groups,
well, you can be sure that Disney will put off ever releasing things like
MH as long as they can, and even then release a highly sanitized, 30minute
shorter version...
>>And Disney executives were reportedly
>>dismayed when they sat down for their first screening of "Momonoke
>>Hime," only to see severed heads and limbs flying...
>Ha ha ha! I would have loved to see their faces! Proof that they had no idea
>who they were dealing with!
And further proof that we'll _never_ see MH in America in a non
bastardized, cut-up, sanitized and rearranged version. Since Disney
already has the rights and the intent (de facto) to release, we can't even
have Fansubbers touch it, right? Oh well... Guess we'll never see it for
real.
--
\~~~~~\__ ~~\___/~~ __/~~~~~/ /pr...@sunset.bph.jhu.edu\ Lord of the Flies
~<==\__\_<O\:/O>_/__/==>~ /www.dragonfire.net/~jhfong\ 1st MPC Division
<_/ //=\ ^ /=\\ \_> \na...@opt-sci.arizona.edu / Colony World Myops
\| (|) |/ \ na...@ccit.arizona.edu / Velox-Durus-Infestus
Paul Cordeiro
On 19 Sep 1997 03:32:10 GMT, na...@aruba.u.arizona.edu (Prabal Nandy)
wrote:
> Well, those are the people that FUND Disney, and in this modern world of
>"Violence on TV makes my kid do bad in school", and rabid parent's groups,
>well, you can be sure that Disney will put off ever releasing things like
>MH as long as they can, and even then release a highly sanitized, 30minute
>shorter version...
You forget, Disney is *bound* by contract *not* to cut or otherwise
edit any of the Ghibli movies.
> And further proof that we'll _never_ see MH in America in a non
>bastardized, cut-up, sanitized and rearranged version. Since Disney
>already has the rights and the intent (de facto) to release, we can't even
>have Fansubbers touch it, right? Oh well... Guess we'll never see it for
>real.
Oh, yes we will. Disney's kicking themselves for it, but we will! ^_^
********************************************************************
* PAUL CORDEIRO, juunanasai. * E-mail: p...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca *
* "Hundred percent!" * WWW: <pre-planning stage> *
********************************************************************
I finally got my .sig down to four li-- whoops. ^_^;;
Eric The Read
na...@aruba.u.arizona.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
> In article <5vpmgr$4...@drn.zippo.com>, <fs...@uaf.edu> wrote:
> >I am starting to notice an almost paranoid aversion to "violence" when
> >it comes to "Mononke Hime." "It's too violent!" whine, whine! It is
> >clear to me that the movie is about War and, I'm sorry my little
> >mouseketeers, War is violent.
> >War is bloody, cruel, and sadistic. Some people have this mental
> >block about what Disney and animation is supposed to be and cannot
> >come to grips with the
>
> "Violence on TV makes my kid do bad in school", and rabid parent's groups,
> well, you can be sure that Disney will put off ever releasing things like
> MH as long as they can, and even then release a highly sanitized, 30minute
> shorter version...
They can't. It's in their contract. The ONLY thing Disney is allowed to
do to the Ghibli movies it acquired the rights to as part of its deal
with Tokuma Shoten is dub the movies into English (possibly subtitle as
well, but I doubt they will). That's IT. They can't cut any scenes.
They can't rewrite dialogue. They can't edit the picture in any way.
<snip>
> And further proof that we'll _never_ see MH in America in a non
> bastardized, cut-up, sanitized and rearranged version. Since Disney
> already has the rights and the intent (de facto) to release, we can't even
> have Fansubbers touch it, right? Oh well... Guess we'll never see it for
> real.
Depends on what you mean by `for real'. You probably won't see a
Japanese-language version with subtitles in America, though I really hope
I'm wrong about that. You (and I) will certainly have the opportunity to
sit through an uncut, unaltered, English-language version in the theater.
-=Eric
stanlee
On 19 Sep 1997, Eric Schwartz wrote:
>
> > And further proof that we'll _never_ see MH in America in a non
> > bastardized, cut-up, sanitized and rearranged version. Since Disney
> > already has the rights and the intent (de facto) to release, we can't even
> > have Fansubbers touch it, right? Oh well... Guess we'll never see it for
> > real.
>
> Depends on what you mean by `for real'. You probably won't see a
> Japanese-language version with subtitles in America, though I really hope
> I'm wrong about that. You (and I) will certainly have the opportunity to
> sit through an uncut, unaltered, English-language version in the theater.
>
Hmmmmm......when Disney does release the
Mononoke Hime dub (hopefully in the theatres),
and it proves to be quite successful,
that may provide them enough justification (and money)
to release a "special edition original MH in sub format"
thru Buena Vista Home Videos or somethin'.
(AFAIK, in Japan, if a Japanese-dubbed Hollywood flic
has proven to be successful in the theatres,
they later release the original dialogue format,
albeit in a much smaller release.
Or is it the other way around?)
Laters. =)
Stan
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \____|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita http://www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
| ( _| | Univ. of Rochester
\ ______| _______ ____ ___ sd0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | sta...@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
/___/\/\___\__| |__|___| \____|
Geoff Tebbetts
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.970919...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>, stanlee
<sd0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> wrote:
> > Depends on what you mean by `for real'. You probably won't see a
> > Japanese-language version with subtitles in America, though I really hope
> > I'm wrong about that. You (and I) will certainly have the opportunity to
> > sit through an uncut, unaltered, English-language version in the theater.
> >
>
> Hmmmmm......when Disney does release the
> Mononoke Hime dub (hopefully in the theatres),
> and it proves to be quite successful,
> that may provide them enough justification (and money)
> to release a "special edition original MH in sub format"
> thru Buena Vista Home Videos or somethin'.
The latest article in a Washington DC newspaper seems to hint that a
theater showing could be possible, especially with the fact that Momonoke
will definitely smash the earnings record in Japan set by ET so many years
ago. I mean, if 7 AM showings in Japan doesn't clue you in that this will
be a hit, what will?
I'm more curious about how the Disney/anime argument will change after
Momonoke's release. Will anime fans view this as Disney giving in or as a
step in a monopoly? If the dub is good, how will this change the dub/sub
argument? This could just be the biggest milestone in anime history, but
a lot of factors are yet to be played.
--
Geoff Tebbetts
gteb...@vt.edu
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Geoff Tebbetts
In article <01bcc573$459d9f40$749aa1ce@kennethm>, "Kenneth B. Miller"
<san...@widowmaker.com> wrote:
> fs...@uaf.edu wrote in article <5vpmgr$4...@drn.zippo.com>...
>
> > >>Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
> > >>this movie? It has a lot...
> >
> > So what!? Life is violent! Get over it!! The movie is more than about
> > violence! People who don't know about Miyazaki (that means, the mayority
> > of dopes in America) will say "It's too violent! grunt, grunt!
We're talking about the same company that toned down the death in 'The
Little Mermaid' to a happy ending. Disney's infamous for that, despite
the deaths they portray in movies. As far as I know, anyways, the reason
it's so big in Japan is because of the Miyazaki name, not because of the
story or the violence. Violence is barely an issue, but that's Japan,
this is America, so get out your editting equipment.
> Either that or misunderstand it. You know, the same people who like
> Urotsukidoji and Akira, but have never heard of KOR.
I think that's more a release problem. Akira and Urotsukidoji were both
released stateside, while KOR hasn't been fully released, only the OAV
series.
Atiya Hakeem
> Ian James Abbott (i...@perfect.airtime.co.uk) wrote:
>
> > Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
>
> No *official* word, but the "official English" title in Japan is "The
> Princess Mononoke", so I'd be willing to bet that Disney sticks with
> that. "Mononoke" is one of those Japanese words that doesn't translate
> well into English, so leaving it in the title solves one problem and
> also adds an air of "intriging foreigness" to the title.
But will leave everyone wondering why her name isn't "Mononoke"....
for proper English syntax I would think it should be "The Mononoke
Princess".
I prefer "Spirit Princess", or just keep "Mononoke Hime" for the
foreign touch.
> (And there is 0.00% chance that Disney will call it "The Amazing Adventures
> of San and Her White Wolf". ^_^ )
Ya never know. They could rename the boar spirit/god "Pumbaa"....
and the deer god could be "Bambi".... =8-0
--
Atiya Hakeem
at...@ahi.pbrc.hawaii.edu
Ming Yau So
In article <34221abc...@news.srv.ualberta.ca> p...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Paul Cordeiro) writes:
>On 19 Sep 1997 03:32:10 GMT, na...@aruba.u.arizona.edu (Prabal Nandy)
>wrote:
>
>>"Violence on TV makes my kid do bad in school", and rabid parent's groups,
>>well, you can be sure that Disney will put off ever releasing things like
>>MH as long as they can, and even then release a highly sanitized, 30minute
>>shorter version...
>
>edit any of the Ghibli movies.
You know, I'm secretly hoping that some stupid bastards in Disney just go
ahead to chop off a bit from Mononoke Hime when they releasing it. In that
way, they will get sued by Ghibli because of contract violation, then Disney
would forced to pay a huge penalty to Ghibli and require to make a public
apology to both Ghlbli and Miyazaki. This would certainly makes all the
other US companies know some bad thing could be happened when they pay no
respect to the foreign films they are releasing.
Just a $0.02 wild dream :)
Kenneth B. Miller
fs...@uaf.edu wrote in article <5vpmgr$4...@drn.zippo.com>...
> >>Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence
in
> >>this movie? It has a lot...
>
> So what!? Life is violent! Get over it!! The movie is more than about
> violence! People who don't know about Miyazaki (that means, the mayority
of
> dopes in America) will say "It's too violent! grunt, grunt!
Either that or misunderstand it. You know, the same people who like
hair...@utdallas.edu
Geoff Tebbetts (gteb...@vt.edu) wrote:
> We're talking about the same company that toned down the death in 'The
> Little Mermaid' to a happy ending. Disney's infamous for that, despite
> the deaths they portray in movies. As far as I know, anyways, the reason
> it's so big in Japan is because of the Miyazaki name, not because of the
> story or the violence. Violence is barely an issue, but that's Japan,
> this is America, so get out your editting equipment.
I think this is the third time in just this thread, but let's go through
this one more time for those of us who have tuned in late.
DISNEY CANNOT CUT ANY OF MIYAZAKI'S OR GHIBLI'S FILMS. THAT WAS ONE OF THE
MAIN POINTS IN THE CONTRACT.
And one of the reasons that it has taken so long for any US company to
reach an argreement to distribute them.
So the theatrical release of "The Princess Monononke" next year in the US
(which is a done deal) will be the full film, uncut, probably with a PG
or PG-13 rating.
Yes, Disney changes the stories in their films, but that overlooks a
simple fact:
Mononoke Hime is NOT a Disney film, it is a Ghibli film.
Disney only has the rights to dub and distribute it. And it will not
even be released under the Disney name (which is reserved for their own
films), but but under either the Touchstone or Miramax labels.
For real information and not random speculation, check out www.nausicaa.net
Marc Hairston
Robert Fahey
In article <atiya-ya02408000...@news.hawaii.edu>, Atiya
Hakeem <at...@ahi.pbrc.hawaii.edu> writes
>> > Any word on what Disney's English title is going to be, yet?
Yes. Disney are going to call it 'Princess Ghost', according to Time
magazine.
Ja mata ne!
Robert
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Robert Fahey | rob...@iol.ie |
| Reality is for those who can't cope with Quake |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.iol.ie/~robertf .... Games Editor, Dot-IE Magazine |
'------------------------------------------------------------------'
Derek Janssen
David Crowe wrote:
>
> Antonius Lourenco Kasbergen <an...@bac.simplenet.com> wrote:
>
> : >Are there any release dates for any of the Miyazaki movies or is this
> : >just speculation? Any indication of threatre release, tape release or
> : >lds release for any other shows?
>
> : Until now, only Momonoke Hime. I think it will be on theaters in december.
>
> : Talking about it, anyone knows what Disney will do about the violence in
> : this movie? It has a lot...
>
> doesn't take much. Is it Ranma level violence? Guyver level? Ninja
> Scroll level? Clue me in.
About "Nausicaa" level, with a few more body parts...
And as far as releasing, don't forget one other factor shaking the
game:
Traditionally the rule is, apart from the one summer Disney (only a
new idea in the last few years), the two seasons for animated movies
for all studios are 1) November/Thanksgiving and 2) March/Easter--
Also, take into account Disney's Captain-Ahab paranoia of other
studios' animated films, which caused them to "suddenly" re-release
"Lion King" the same week as MGM's "Pebble & the Penguin" (or was it
"All Dogs Go to Heaven 2"??) was released, not to mention their
"whimsical" urge to re-release "Little Mermaid" one week before Fox's
"Anastasia"--
Now, here's Disney's dilemna:
What rousing animated action film could they POSSIBLY release to outdo
Universal's sure-fire sword-swinging hit "Hercules/Xena" animated
film next March?--
"Black Cauldron" wouldn't do it...Let's see--swords and action, hmm...
decisions, decisions....
Derek Janssen
dja...@ultranet.com
Invid fan
> You know, I'm secretly hoping that some stupid bastards in Disney just go
> ahead to chop off a bit from Mononoke Hime when they releasing it. In that
> way, they will get sued by Ghibli because of contract violation, then Disney
> would forced to pay a huge penalty to Ghibli and require to make a public
> apology to both Ghlbli and Miyazaki. This would certainly makes all the
> other US companies know some bad thing could be happened when they pay no
> respect to the foreign films they are releasing.
>
Do you have any idea what other nations do to film made in the US before
showing them? I have a friend in Malaysia who regularly gives me reports.
They censor everything- Simpsons, X-Files, movies, you name it. I personaly
think the reason they never showed B5 past the first season is because of
the lesbian and Vorlon/angel plots. Be thankful we get what we do unedited.
Matt McDevitt
Do you have any idea what other nations do to film made in the US before
> showing them? I have a friend in Malaysia who regularly gives me reports.
> They censor everything- Simpsons, X-Files, movies, you name it. I
personaly
> think the reason they never showed B5 past the first season is because of
> the lesbian and Vorlon/angel plots. Be thankful we get what we do
unedited.
> 'Invid fan' (a) nudity
No.....don't think I'll be thankful.
There's a big difference. When the movie companies over here release
movies to other countries, the agreement doesn't include a "non-editing"
clause, which isn' t the case for Mononoke Hime.
Miyazaki specifically held out for such a clause to be added to the
contract, that Disney wasn't to cut out one flying bloody limb.
So the Malaysians can edit whatever they want of our movies, as long as
there's not a legal contract forbidding it, which there ins't. However
Disney can't touch Mononoke unless they want a lawsuit.
Matt
Invid fan
In article <01bcc6af$009b85a0$5696d9ce@yukina>, "Matt McDevitt"
<mak...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Do you have any idea what other nations do to film made in the US before
> > showing them? I have a friend in Malaysia who regularly gives me reports.
> > They censor everything- Simpsons, X-Files, movies, you name it. I
> personaly
> > think the reason they never showed B5 past the first season is because of
> > the lesbian and Vorlon/angel plots. Be thankful we get what we do
> unedited.
> No.....don't think I'll be thankful.
> There's a big difference. When the movie companies over here release
> movies to other countries, the agreement doesn't include a "non-editing"
> clause, which isn' t the case for Mononoke Hime.
>
> Miyazaki specifically held out for such a clause to be added to the
> contract, that Disney wasn't to cut out one flying bloody limb.
>
> So the Malaysians can edit whatever they want of our movies, as long as
> there's not a legal contract forbidding it, which there ins't. However
> Disney can't touch Mononoke unless they want a lawsuit.
>
The post I was replying to said he WANTED Disney to edit the sucker, so
they would be sued as a lesson for other importers of the danger of fooling
around with imports. I personaly don't think that's needed ^_^
--
Chris Mack "...any occult ritual ought to involve
'Invid fan' (a) nudity
(b) wearing a bad hat, and
In...@localnet.com (c) assuming an uncomfortable and ludicrous
position"
-Penn and Teller
Lea Hernandez
Derek Janssen wrote:
> And as far as releasing, don't forget one other factor shaking the
> game:
<snip a dee doo da>
>
> Now, here's Disney's dilemna:
> What rousing animated action film could they POSSIBLY release to outdo
> Universal's sure-fire sword-swinging hit "Hercules/Xena" animated
> film next March?--
> "Black Cauldron" wouldn't do it...Let's see--swords and action, hmm...
> decisions, decisions....
The Herc and Xena film art is so ugly, so amazingly screaming hairy-butt
ugly, I'm predicting it'll die like the dog it is with or without
competition.
Arnold Kim
In article <5vsrnq$pb0$1...@news.ccit.arizona.edu>, na...@aruba.u.arizona.edu
(Prabal Nandy) wrote:
> In article <5vpmgr$4...@drn.zippo.com>, <fs...@uaf.edu> wrote:
> >I am starting to notice an almost paranoid aversion to "violence" when
it comes
> >to "Mononke Hime." "It's too violent!" whine, whine! It is clear to me that
> >the movie is about War and, I'm sorry my little mouseketeers, War is violent.
> >War is bloody, cruel, and sadistic. Some people have this mental block about
> >what Disney and animation is supposed to be and cannot come to grips with the
>
> Well, those are the people that FUND Disney, and in this modern world of
> "Violence on TV makes my kid do bad in school", and rabid parent's groups,
> well, you can be sure that Disney will put off ever releasing things like
> MH as long as they can, and even then release a highly sanitized, 30minute
> shorter version...
I think they could just release it under one of their subsidiary movie
companies, like Hollywood Pictures, Toucstone, or Miramax. That's what
they did with their more adult movies like "The Hand That Rocks the
Cradle". Hell, Disney's the company that funded the movie "Kids", under
Miramax.
> >>And Disney executives were reportedly
> >>dismayed when they sat down for their first screening of "Momonoke
> >>Hime," only to see severed heads and limbs flying...
> >Ha ha ha! I would have loved to see their faces! Proof that they had
no idea
> >who they were dealing with!
>
> And further proof that we'll _never_ see MH in America in a non
> bastardized, cut-up, sanitized and rearranged version. Since Disney
> already has the rights and the intent (de facto) to release, we can't even
> have Fansubbers touch it, right? Oh well... Guess we'll never see it for
> real.
I think that part of the deal included no editing of the footage.
Arnold Kim
wants to see more Miyazaki stuff
Arnold Kim
In article <34221abc...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
p...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Paul Cordeiro) wrote:
> On 19 Sep 1997 03:32:10 GMT, na...@aruba.u.arizona.edu (Prabal Nandy)
> wrote:
>
> > Well, those are the people that FUND Disney, and in this modern world of
> >"Violence on TV makes my kid do bad in school", and rabid parent's groups,
> >well, you can be sure that Disney will put off ever releasing things like
> >MH as long as they can, and even then release a highly sanitized, 30minute
> >shorter version...
>
> You forget, Disney is *bound* by contract *not* to cut or otherwise
> edit any of the Ghibli movies.
>
> > And further proof that we'll _never_ see MH in America in a non
> >bastardized, cut-up, sanitized and rearranged version. Since Disney
> >already has the rights and the intent (de facto) to release, we can't even
> >have Fansubbers touch it, right? Oh well... Guess we'll never see it for
> >real.
>
> Oh, yes we will. Disney's kicking themselves for it, but we will! ^_^
Lookin' forward to it too.^_^
I'm really annoyed that most americans can't appreciate animation as a
real medium for expression on high quality entertainment for all ages-
some on a kid's level, some on a more mature level.
Personally, I'd just love it if all 26 eps of Evangelion managed to pop up
on network TV and I'll see all the controversey and discussion it brews
up.
Arnold Kim
Boy, the Southern Baptists would throw a FIT if that happened!^_^
Robotech_Master
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:41:12 GMT, Rik Newman <rik.n...@virgin.net> wrote:
> The songs?- I haven't seen the dub so I don't know. Only song I know
> that had an "accurate" English version was Voices from Macross Plus,
> as they got one of the real Sharon Apple's to sing an English
> version (the one that speaks English obviously ^_^).
Uhm, two things. 1) "Voices" was sung by Myung, _not_ Sharon Apple.
2) The dub is only "accurate" insofar as it is sung by the same voice
actress. The lyrics were completely different.
If you want an "accurate" dubbed version of a song as far as lyric
translation goes, you'll find it in, of all places, "My Neighbor
Totoro". The OP is translated very nearly word for word from what I
see in my fansubbed version of it, and I think the ED is pretty
accurate too.
--
Chris Meadows aka | http://www.eyrie.org/~robotech/index.html
Robotech_Master | ---------------------------------------------
robo...@eyrie.org | soon-to-be Co-moderator, rec.games.mecha
robo...@jurai.net |
Rik Newman
On 23 Sep 1997 05:36:28 GMT, robo...@eyrie.org (Robotech_Master)
wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:41:12 GMT, Rik Newman <rik.n...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> The songs?- I haven't seen the dub so I don't know. Only song I know
>> that had an "accurate" English version was Voices from Macross Plus,
>> as they got one of the real Sharon Apple's to sing an English
>> version (the one that speaks English obviously ^_^).
>
>Uhm, two things. 1) "Voices" was sung by Myung, _not_ Sharon Apple.
<G> Yeh I kinda know that (As far as singers are concerned Sharon _is_
Myung really ne?), but what I mean by accurate is that it was written
by one of the "proper" song writers the series (Wakako Kaku), and
whilst the singer Michelle Flynn the DID change the lyrics, they kept
it very close to the spirit of the song. Basically it's probably the
best re-dubbed anime song I've heard. Although I just remembered the
Tenchi ones too, which were good also.
>2) The dub is only "accurate" insofar as it is sung by the same voice
>actress. The lyrics were completely different.
See above. It's not even the same singer, the Japanese version is by
Akino Arai, and the English one is by Michelle Flynn. Neither are
voice actresses really.
>If you want an "accurate" dubbed version of a song as far as lyric
>translation goes, you'll find it in, of all places, "My Neighbor
>Totoro". The OP is translated very nearly word for word from what I
>see in my fansubbed version of it, and I think the ED is pretty
>accurate too.
Now that is another great example also! Then again it doesn't exactly
have many complex lyrics to translate! Trying to fit an accurate
meaning and keeping the tune to an English Voices would've been hell!
BTW: Anyone know accurate lyrics to the English version of Voices?
-Rik "Basara"
***Fave Game of moment: The King of Fighters'96 (SS)****
"Did you know your heart is empty Mollari"
"Hiwo TSU-KE-RO!" Dolphan for life
See the new and improved Fire Bomber web site:
http://www.shef.ac.uk/~aas/rik/firebomber/fire0.html
***Fave Song of the moment: SF2 V OP Theme #1 (SF2V)****
DONALD S. YEE
Tsunami@Jyurai wrote:
>
> With the forthcoming releases of the Miyazaki movies by Disney we are
> about to see what can be done in the way of dubbing when a decent
> amount of money is put into the dub. I would be interested to know how
Just because Disney has the rights to distribute Miyazaki's works does
not neccessarily mean they will dub it too. That depends on their
contractual agreement with Studio Ghibli.
All the money in the world is not going to do a bit of good if the
people who do the dubbing, don't do it right in the first place. Even
Disney.
> many of the hardcore dub haters would be willing to buy these,
> providing the dubbing is done well?
Some will, not all subbers dislike dubbing.
The thing is that some people are into the "art" aspect of a film. They
like the original. They like the subtle nuances that the film maker
intended and voices are part of that nuance. They think it reflect the
creators true thoughts and the culture behind it. Kind of like a person
who into classical music.
Then there are those who just want to something different and really
don't care so long as they enjoy it. Kind of like rockers.
Where I stand on this issue is I like dubbing for these reasons:
1. Animation is art too. I like looking at the visuals more than
anything else. It is hard to catch everything when your too busy
reading the subtitles.
2. You can't aways rewind a film in a theatre. You will miss something.
I'm not going to pay admission again just to see what I missed. I
hate waiting for the videos to come out and by that time someone will
have pointed everything out already.
3. There is always some knuckle head reading the darn thing outloud.
4. I'm there to enjoy the film, not become some foriegn film expert.
> After all, I think that Disney of all companies would be able to do an
> excellent job of the dubbing.....
Let's face it, the reality is one basic universal word, MONEY!!! Do you
think Disney's number one goal is to do Miyazaki right? Perhaps. But the
underlying goal is MONEY. Just think of this for one minute. If you have
a compeditor whose animated films have done consistantly well all over
the world, wouldn't you take the chance and snatch this person up before
someone else does? Especially the Asian market, for which 1/4 of the
worlds population is located? Think of the enormous profit potentials in
that region! Let's face it Miyazaki has made animated films, NOT
animated cartoons, that rival some of Disney's earlier works and
outgrossed all of Japan's regular films consistantly, as well as done
well against regular American films. When you see a Miyazaki film, it is
a film!
As for Studio Ghibli, for what ever reason, Streamline Pictures is small
fry compared to Disney. With distribution power like that, you don't
need a small operation like Streamline.
The point is whether subbed or dubbed, Disney wants the money and Studio
Ghibli wants a wider distribution of their films.
>
> "You will never amount to very much"
> Munich schoolmaster to Albert Einstein, aged 10.
>
> http://www.jyurai.demon.co.uk/ tsu...@jyurai.demon.co.uk
Invid fan
In article <slrn62elav....@eyrie.org>, robo...@eyrie.org
(Robotech_Master) wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:41:12 GMT, Rik Newman <rik.n...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> > The songs?- I haven't seen the dub so I don't know. Only song I know
> > that had an "accurate" English version was Voices from Macross Plus,
> > as they got one of the real Sharon Apple's to sing an English
> > version (the one that speaks English obviously ^_^).
>
> Uhm, two things. 1) "Voices" was sung by Myung, _not_ Sharon Apple.
> 2) The dub is only "accurate" insofar as it is sung by the same voice
> actress. The lyrics were completely different.
>
One thing you have to remember- the English version of "Voices" came first!
In fact, it was written for an airlines to use at a Disney exibit they
sponsored. I believe it was Delta, although I could be wrong. The music in
one of thier ads sounds very similar...