What is "Post-Modernism"?
je...@catholic.org
or critical reviews, I often find the term "postmodern".
I don't understand this. One helped by writing that it
is associated with post-structuralism. This I don't
understand either. I'm sure I could appreciate these
reviews, essays, and articles if I did know the term.
SO, could someone give me a definition, or direct me to
an enlightening reference, or just give me a hint of a
description?
J. Earle***************
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Antaeus Feldspar
> Reading philosophical essays or literary articles
> or critical reviews, I often find the term "postmodern".
>
> I don't understand this. One helped by writing that it
> is associated with post-structuralism. This I don't
> understand either. I'm sure I could appreciate these
> reviews, essays, and articles if I did know the term.
>
> SO, could someone give me a definition, or direct me to
> an enlightening reference, or just give me a hint of a
> description?
Unfortunately, the term "post-modern" is like "existentialist":
no one can agree on a definition for it and yet people are still trying
to convey information with it.
A good key, however, is that post-modern literature tends to
acknowledge the existence of multiple worlds, multiple frames of
reference. Any meta-fictional work is post-modern; when Bugs Bunny
looks at the camera and comments, "I do this kind of stuff to him all
through the picture," it's a post-modern comment, because he's
acknowledging, "I exist in the frame of reference where I'm a smart-ass
rabbit tormenting a pudgy hunter; but I also exist in a frame of
reference where I'm a confection of animator's ink acting out a script."
The boundaries can be vague sometimes. Alan Moore's _Watchmen_
has been called post-modern, even though it contains no fourth-wall
elements. However, it does take a look at superheroes in a world where
dressing up in long underwear to fight crime *is* considered abnormal;
where lots of the people who decide to become costumed heros do so
because they're not that tightly wrapped; where 'heroes' can die the
pointless, senseless deaths that police officers often die in our own
world. It definitely places superheroes in a non-traditional frame of
reference.
In addition, it's an "alternate world" novel. Due in large part
to the only super-powered hero of their world, their course of history
changed from our own decades ago, and continues to grow apart. Thus,
when a character comments, "It's a good thing we won in Vietnam; I think
it might have driven us a little crazy if we'd lost," the real impact of
the statement comes from what that comment means in our frame of
reference as opposed to theirs. Thus... postmodern.
Hope this helps.
-jc
--
* -jc IS *NOW* feld...@cryogen.com
* Home page: http://members.tripod.com/~afeldspar/index.html
* The home of >>Failed Pilots Playhouse<<
* "Better you hold me close than understand..." Thomas Dolby
och...@my-dejanews.com
je...@catholic.org wrote:
> Reading philosophical essays or literary articles
> or critical reviews, I often find the term "postmodern".
>
I don't remember why. But it sure was funny.
:)
> I don't understand this. One helped by writing that it
> is associated with post-structuralism. This I don't
> understand either. I'm sure I could appreciate these
> reviews, essays, and articles if I did know the term.
>
> SO, could someone give me a definition, or direct me to
> an enlightening reference, or just give me a hint of a
> description?
>
This is not very accurate, but it is short:
Post-Modernism does not simply mean "after" Modernism, it is
more like "anti"- Modernism.
Here is why:
Modernism is focused on objectivity and logic.
Post-Modernism is more subjective and thrives on
contradiction.
Ochame
-I think you will be better off if you you just
look up the definition in a basic book on art or just go through
some examples of postmodern art and get a "feel" for it yourself.
James King
>In article <766vke$lf9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> je...@catholic.org wrote:
>> Reading philosophical essays or literary articles
>> or critical reviews, I often find the term "postmodern".
>>
>Or in this ng, when one dude calls another Mr. Post-Modern!
I made a comment to the effect that there's no such thing as 'objectively
good' in art.
Lyabibrave (the person I was responding to with that comment), who obviously
disagreed, started his response with 'Hello, Mr. Postmodern'.
>But it sure was funny.
>:)
I enjoyed it. ^_-
--
James 'Tengu' King
***********************
"Hello, Mr. Postmodern"
-Lyabibrave referring to
me on r.a.a.m.
(Yes, this is my normal .sig!)
och...@my-dejanews.com
"James King" <jk...@accglobal.net> wrote:
> och...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <768li5$s1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >I don't remember why. <Cut line in 2>
>
> I made a comment to the effect that there's no such thing as 'objectively
> good' in art.
>
> Lyabibrave (the person I was responding to with that comment), who obviously
> disagreed, started his response with 'Hello, Mr. Postmodern'.
>
I remember now! -POFLOL- He was actually right on, wasn't he?
This is a good one.
>
> I enjoyed it. ^_-
>
I am sure other people did too.
I was one of them. :)
> --
> James 'Tengu' King
> ***********************
> "Hello, Mr. Postmodern"
> -Lyabibrave referring to
> me on r.a.a.m.
>
> (Yes, this is my normal .sig!)
>
>
It's a great .sig!
^_^
James King
<Snip>
>> >I don't remember why. <Cut line in 2>
>>
>> I made a comment to the effect that there's no such thing as 'objectively
>> good' in art.
>>
>> Lyabibrave (the person I was responding to with that comment), who
obviously
>> disagreed, started his response with 'Hello, Mr. Postmodern'.
>>
>I remember now! -POFLOL- He was actually right on, wasn't he?
I suppose so. But...POFLOL? P____ O____ F____ Laughing out loud?
>This is a good one.
'Tis, 'tis.
>>
>> I enjoyed it. ^_-
>>
>I am sure other people did too.
>I was one of them. :)
Funny thing is, he seems to have thought it was an insult. <Shrugs>
>> --
>> James 'Tengu' King
>> ***********************
>> "Hello, Mr. Postmodern"
>> -Lyabibrave referring to
>> me on r.a.a.m.
>>
>> (Yes, this is my normal .sig!)
>>
>>
>It's a great .sig!
>^_^
<Bows, grandly> Thank you.
och...@my-dejanews.com
"James King" <jk...@accglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I suppose so. But...POFLOL? P____ O____ F____ Laughing out loud?
>
I should know the answer to that, shouldn't I? <sigh>
But I have no idea. <trying to find her brain and turn it on>
This is not a simple typo because then at least 2 characters are
wrong (? I think). <brain refuses to work and goes back to sleep>
I think it is not something profoundly important and deep,
because then <most likely> I would have remembered. Ah, just
ignore it.
Ochame
-isn't sure if anime is intellectually stimulating
James King
>> I suppose so. But...POFLOL? P____ O____ F____ Laughing out loud?
>>
>
>I should know the answer to that, shouldn't I? <sigh>
>But I have no idea. <trying to find her brain and turn it on>
>This is not a simple typo because then at least 2 characters are
>wrong (? I think). <brain refuses to work and goes back to sleep>
>
>I think it is not something profoundly important and deep,
>because then <most likely> I would have remembered. Ah, just
>ignore it.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......you did that on purpose, didn't
you? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........now it'll be bothing me
for......ugh! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........
Michael Borgwardt
"James King" <jk...@accglobal.net> writes:
>>> I suppose so. But...POFLOL? P____ O____ F____ Laughing out loud?
>>>
>>
>>I should know the answer to that, shouldn't I? <sigh>
>>But I have no idea. <trying to find her brain and turn it on>
>>This is not a simple typo because then at least 2 characters are
>>wrong (? I think). <brain refuses to work and goes back to sleep>
>>
>>I think it is not something profoundly important and deep,
>>because then <most likely> I would have remembered. Ah, just
>>ignore it.
>
> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......you did that on purpose, didn't
> you? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........now it'll be bothing me
> for......ugh! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........
Uh... I have a suspicion about what might have been the meaning:
(rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
--
Michael "Brazil" Borgwardt --- Member of #WASHU# and Her would-be guinea-pig.
Untiring defender of Washu-chan, Asuka-chan and Elektra-chan.
A Homepage for Elektra: http://www.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~borgward/
ANT - Animeclub fuer Deutschland: http://www.online.de/home/Rumiya/ant/
--------------- Let`s shake the dew off this lily, shall we ? ---------------
James King
<76d1d4$gd3$4...@sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>...
>In article <76coem$e9n$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net>,
> "James King" <jk...@accglobal.net> writes:
>
>>>> I suppose so. But...POFLOL? P____ O____ F____ Laughing out loud?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I should know the answer to that, shouldn't I? <sigh>
>>>But I have no idea. <trying to find her brain and turn it on>
>>>This is not a simple typo because then at least 2 characters are
>>>wrong (? I think). <brain refuses to work and goes back to sleep>
>>>
>>>I think it is not something profoundly important and deep,
>>>because then <most likely> I would have remembered. Ah, just
>>>ignore it.
>>
>> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......you did that on purpose,
didn't
>> you? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........now it'll be bothing me
>> for......ugh! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........
>
>Uh... I have a suspicion about what might have been the meaning:
>(rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
Thankee, that seems to fit.
Patrick Drazen
TC Nguyen wrote:
> je...@catholic.org wrote:
>
>> Reading philosophical essays or literary articles
>> or critical reviews, I often find the term "postmodern". could
>> someone give me a definition, or direct me to
>> an enlightening reference, or just give me a hint of a
>> description?
>>
>> J. Earle
>
> <with snippage> "postmodern" means exactly what it means. "after
> modern". Basically there is a trend in the intellectual fields toward
> a new way of seeing or analyzing the world. It is going toward a less
> centralized, less structural viewpoint. Looking at the way art
> changes through the years is also a way of seeing postmodernism.
>
> ** TC Nguyen **
As I understand it, and bringing it into the topic, post-modernism is an
extension of the "Neoclassic" movement from earlier in this century,
inasmuch as artists (in whatever medium) refer not only to the
classic/Renaissance/Baroque forms of their medium, but also to
pop-culture influences. Thus, a postmodern artist might incorporate
manga/anime images in a canvas, a musical composition might drop in some
Megumi Hayashibara, etc.
Patrick Drazen
who wonders how it would look if the residents of "Mezon Ikkoku" acted
out "The Tale of Genji"
och...@my-dejanews.com
borg...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Michael Borgwardt) wrote:
>
> Uh... I have a suspicion about what might have been the meaning:
> (rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
>
Bwa, this is so low-brow, so not lady-like.
I could not possibly mean that.
(But then, I did watch 8 episodes of Ping-Pong Club that day...)
I donno. The original joke was funny, but it wasn't THAT funny.
A complete mystery, I am telling ya.
Ochame
Damien Roc
> In article <76d1d4$gd3$4...@sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>,
> borg...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Michael Borgwardt) wrote:
>
> >
> > Uh... I have a suspicion about what might have been the meaning:
> > (rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
> >
> Bwa, this is so low-brow, so not lady-like.
> I could not possibly mean that.
> (But then, I did watch 8 episodes of Ping-Pong Club that day...)
> I donno. The original joke was funny, but it wasn't THAT funny.
> A complete mystery, I am telling ya.
I know it's probably a factor of my working nearly 20 hours over the past
few days, but what did I miss?
> Ochame
Damien Roc
confuzzled
a Mike Stackpole Fan since 1992
Umi's Champion
Nuriko's Honor Guard
Tech: Good afternoon, my name is Larry. May I have your name, please?
Caller: I'm afraid I can't tell you that.
Tech: You can't tell me your name?
Caller: Due to the nature of my business, no, I can't.
Tech: OK, well, what can I do for you today?
Caller: The computer has a problem.
Tech: OK, can you be more specific?
Caller: I'm sorry, but because of what we do, I can't be any more
specific than that.
Tech: I'm sorry, sir, but unless you tell me what the problem is, I can't
help you.
Caller: OK, thanks. (hangs up)
-from "Tales From the Tech Line" David Pogue ed.
Damien Roc
> In article <368A9E16...@whyweb.com>,
> Damien Roc <dami...@whyweb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > (rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
> rot13 : number of the letter + 13 modulo 26 .
> Since 26=13*2, the decryption is the same as encryption.
I figured this out at some later message... so...
Ah...
> > > A complete mystery, I am telling ya.
> - Should I have admitted the crime?
> - Never! :-p
>
> > I know it's probably a factor of my working nearly 20 hours over the past
> Only 20 hours?
Did I mention that I've been getting up at 2 am to do this work? (Do you know
how much it sucks to tell a friend "I can't go to a 5 pm movie because I've
gotta go to bed.")
> > few days, but what did I miss?
> How should I know? Hehe. You didn't miss much in this thread, no, sir.
> But! some folks here on this ng were analyzing the H stuff! That was
> a knock-out! A _real_ POTFLOL -knockout! I fell off the chair reading
> their delightful insights on the topic. So go read that other stuff
> instead, really.
Actually, I've gotten most of that... it was the whole code thing.
> > Damien Roc
> > confuzzled
> I like the sound of this word.
> much better then puzzfused. Good choice.
I use it a lot... it's probably my normal state of mind.
> Ja,
> Ochame
Damien Roc
och...@my-dejanews.com
> > > (rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
rot13 : number of the letter + 13 modulo 26 .
Since 26=13*2, the decryption is the same as encryption.
> > A complete mystery, I am telling ya.
- Should I have admitted the crime?
- Never! :-p
> I know it's probably a factor of my working nearly 20 hours over the past
Only 20 hours?
> few days, but what did I miss?
How should I know? Hehe. You didn't miss much in this thread, no, sir.
But! some folks here on this ng were analyzing the H stuff! That was
a knock-out! A _real_ POTFLOL -knockout! I fell off the chair reading
their delightful insights on the topic. So go read that other stuff
instead, really.
> Damien Roc
> confuzzled
I like the sound of this word.
much better then puzzfused. Good choice.
Ja,
Duo Maxwell
och...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <76emlv$p0u$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <368A9E16...@whyweb.com>,
> Damien Roc <dami...@whyweb.com> wrote:
>
>> > > (rot13) cvffvatba gur sybbe
>rot13 : number of the letter + 13 modulo 26 .
>Since 26=13*2, the decryption is the same as encryption.
>
>> > A complete mystery, I am telling ya.
>- Should I have admitted the crime?
>- Never! :-p
>
>> I know it's probably a factor of my working nearly 20 hours over the past
>Only 20 hours?
>
>> few days, but what did I miss?
>How should I know? Hehe. You didn't miss much in this thread, no, sir.
>But! some folks here on this ng were analyzing the H stuff! That was
>a knock-out! A _real_ POTFLOL -knockout! I fell off the chair reading
>their delightful insights on the topic. So go read that other stuff
>instead, really.
And like all threads, we are just getting silly now...
(Tentacle anime is apparently due to sushi....)