Anime for the public
Frank Wustner
> 1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view it, will
> otakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore? You can also
> substitute art films for anime in this case.
Uh, I seem to be missing the logic train here. Most of
us don't like anime because it is "special". We like it
because what we see is good stuff. Given that, how would
making it mainstream suddenly make it "not special"?
> 2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted,
> "95% of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent
> oversees." Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
You are forgetting about economics. Why would any real
U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap? They
would never make money off it and they know it.
> 3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
> anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
> books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame everyone
> else" decade.
People are already doing that with anime, though not very
often. You've heard the stereotypes, haven't you? And
besides that, as you note people have played the blame
game before with other things (comic books, etc.). Yet
those things are still around. Anime would not suddenly
disappear if the same thing happened to it.
> 4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making money,
> but some stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does someone out
> there really need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
Someone out there *might* want one. What do you care?
Besides, you are ignoring the economics again. The U.S.
anime industry is not going to waste its time with crap.
They wouldn't make money from it.
> 5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper
> introduction to make it a positive influence to the public (Princess
> Mononoke), I'm seeing a few slams on how the dub voice acting was only decent.
> Fans have been saying for years they want great voice acting and a killer
> story. This might be the finally universal acceptance anime fans need to look
> good and people are trying to sabotage it already. Think of it. Strange.
This presumes 1) that anime fans really care whether or
not anime becomes mainstream (I don't); 2) that the slams
on the movie really are an attempt to sabotage it rather
than a scincere artistic critique; 3) that Mononoke Hime
really is the great voice acting and killer story that
*you claim* we have been waiting for. Frankly, while I
do agree that Mononoke Hime has great voice acting and a
killer story, I do not agree that we have been waiting
for it, nor do I agree with your other two presumptions.
--
The Deadly Nightshade
http://members.tripod.com/~deadly_nightshade
|-----------------------------------|
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| Makoto." |
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Neal Evan Wilson #i
(Blach1) wrote:
קHere are some things that has been bothering me for years since I entered into
קanime. Anyone can answer because I really would like a few people to address
קthese issues. Many people who post in anime newsgroups want others to accept
קanime so companies will do more translations. The ultimate goal seems to be
קacceptance on to regular television. I feel this is partly a mistake. Here's
קwhy:
ק
ק1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view it, will
קotakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore? You can also
קsubstitute art films for anime in this case.
ק
Is the work special because of its popularity or is the work special
because of what the work is? Personally, I don't care about the popularity
of a title. What I do care about is the content of the title. Art films or
anime, if it cannot stand on its own merrit, what has popularity got to do
with it. If it can, what has popularity got to do with it?
ק2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted, "95%
קof anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent oversees."
קThink of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
Just a rephrasing of that 95% of anything is crap. There are titles
available domestically which I personally think are no good. There are
titles available domestically which others personally think are no good.
Likewise, the continuing existance of fansubs shows that there are titles
which some think are good which, for some reason or another, have not been
picked up domestically. If the floodgates were forced wide open, people
seeking enjoyment would simply have to figure out what sorts of things
they like and what sorts of things they don't, and be a little selective.
I get the impression that most people on this newsgroup are already at
least a little selective in purchasing anime.
ק
ק3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
קanime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
קbooks in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame everyone
קelse" decade.
I find it interesting that those who grew up listening to rock music
despite the claims of concerned parents that it encouraged deviance are
the same people who grew up to make similar claims of the music of the
80's and 90's. Of course, the 1990s are almost over. Luckily in this case,
people blaming societal problems on media are largely ignored except in a
few specific cases which are generally forgotten within a week of the
event.
ק
ק4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making money, but
קsome stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does someone out there
קreally need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
ק
The merchandise will only come if a company thinks there's money in it
somewhere. If Hello Kitty vibrators bring Nurse Angel Ririka SOS
Stateside, I'm all in favor of them.
ק5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper introduction
קto make it a positive influence to the public (Princess Mononoke), I'm seeing a
קfew slams on how the dub voice acting was only decent. Fans have been saying
קfor years they want great voice acting and a killer story. This might be the
קfinally universal acceptance anime fans need to look good and people are trying
קto sabotage it already. Think of it. Strange.
ק
The fans are not the majority. They never will be. They also aren't
homogenous in views. There are some who think that the voice acting will
never and can never be as good in English as it is in Japonese. There are
some who think that to one who speaks English as a primary language, a dub
has far greater potential quality than a sub. As for the positive
influence on the public of Princess Mononoke, this remains to be seen.
After all, it is rather violent and can thus be used to perpetuate the
steriotype that all anime is sex and violence.
Neal Evan Wilson
Officiial AGFF Keeper of the Laws
Defender of Ruby Weapon
Leader (as suggested by Rob): Okay-Hentai -
a group that doesn't care if there's hentai here or not.
Member: ILU clan
Territorial Governor of alt.games.grand-theft-auto
Neal Wilson has 4 Fulgy points
and 10 Wyvern points
and 10 Murgy points
and 29 cthulu points being used for evil.
and 1 cthulu point being used for good.
and 101 Final Fantasy GEEK points (v1.1 12/1/98)
and 23 Bliss points
and 3 Sphinx points
and 1265456 Metal Arm™ points
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Most Self-Controlled Poster of the Week (week of December 1, 1997)
AGFF Best Poster of 1998 (THE WYVIES)
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"Neal is the only one who's actually making some quality posts to the group."
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To see my real .sig, go to http://www.execpc.com/~wilcafe/.../.sig
This post has been demonically mastered for optimal mental and physical disturbance.
HPL
Neal Evan Wilson #i
ũHere are some things that has been bothering me for years since I entered into
ũanime. Anyone can answer because I really would like a few people to address
ũthese issues. Many people who post in anime newsgroups want others to accept
ũanime so companies will do more translations. The ultimate goal seems to be
ũacceptance on to regular television. I feel this is partly a mistake. Here's
ũwhy:
ũ
ũ1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view it, will
ũotakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore? You can also
ũsubstitute art films for anime in this case.
ũ
Is the work special because of its popularity or is the work special
because of what the work is? Personally, I don't care about the popularity
of a title. What I do care about is the content of the title. Art films or
anime, if it cannot stand on its own merrit, what has popularity got to do
with it. If it can, what has popularity got to do with it?
ũ2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted, "95%
ũof anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent oversees."
ũThink of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
Just a rephrasing of that 95% of anything is crap. There are titles
available domestically which I personally think are no good. There are
titles available domestically which others personally think are no good.
Likewise, the continuing existance of fansubs shows that there are titles
which some think are good which, for some reason or another, have not been
picked up domestically. If the floodgates were forced wide open, people
seeking enjoyment would simply have to figure out what sorts of things
they like and what sorts of things they don't, and be a little selective.
I get the impression that most people on this newsgroup are already at
least a little selective in purchasing anime.
ũ
ũ3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
ũanime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
ũbooks in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame everyone
ũelse" decade.
I find it interesting that those who grew up listening to rock music
despite the claims of concerned parents that it encouraged deviance are
the same people who grew up to make similar claims of the music of the
80's and 90's. Of course, the 1990s are almost over. Luckily in this case,
people blaming societal problems on media are largely ignored except in a
few specific cases which are generally forgotten within a week of the
event.
ũ
ũ4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making money, but
ũsome stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does someone out there
ũreally need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
ũ
The merchandise will only come if a company thinks there's money in it
somewhere. If Hello Kitty vibrators bring Nurse Angel Ririka SOS
Stateside, I'm all in favor of them.
ũ5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper introduction
ũto make it a positive influence to the public (Princess Mononoke), I'm seeing a
ũfew slams on how the dub voice acting was only decent. Fans have been saying
ũfor years they want great voice acting and a killer story. This might be the
ũfinally universal acceptance anime fans need to look good and people are trying
ũto sabotage it already. Think of it. Strange.
ũ
The fans are not the majority. They never will be. They also aren't
homogenous in views. There are some who think that the voice acting will
never and can never be as good in English as it is in Japonese. There are
some who think that to one who speaks English as a primary language, a dub
has far greater potential quality than a sub. As for the positive
influence on the public of Princess Mononoke, this remains to be seen.
After all, it is rather violent and can thus be used to perpetuate the
steriotype that all anime is sex and violence.
Neal Evan Wilson
This post has been demonically mastered for optimal mental and physical disturbance.
HPL
Blach1
1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view it, will
otakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore? You can also
substitute art films for anime in this case.
2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted, "95%
of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent oversees."
Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame everyone
else" decade.
4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making money, but
some stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does someone out there
really need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper introduction
to make it a positive influence to the public (Princess Mononoke), I'm seeing a
few slams on how the dub voice acting was only decent. Fans have been saying
for years they want great voice acting and a killer story. This might be the
finally universal acceptance anime fans need to look good and people are trying
to sabotage it already. Think of it. Strange.
That's all I can think of now. Sorry it's so long. Post to the newsgroup and
give me your views.
TJ
will
>otakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore? You can
also
>substitute art films for anime in this case.
Nope. Popularity is irrelevant. What is important to me is the censorship.
Most animes shown on US TV stations are censored to the point that I just
lose interest. Will Eva movie be the same w/out the grahpic violent battle
scenes and the scenes w/ nudity? Frankly, I don't think so because they
contributed to the overall symbolism and Shinji's struggle to find "self"
and "reality." But do you think US will not censor it? I think it'll be
censored if Eva movie were to shown on TV or at movie theaters.
>2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted,
"95%
>of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent
oversees."
>Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
Supply and demand. Companies will not import animes that didn't do well in
Japan or not well-received by fans overseas (fan-sub) because they're going
to lose money.
>3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems
on
>anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
>books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame
everyone
>else" decade.
Heck, they do that all the time with everything, so this point is moot.
>4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making money,
but
>some stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does someone out
there
>really need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
So? If there's demand for it, who cares?
>5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper
introduction
>to make it a positive influence to the public (Princess Mononoke), I'm
seeing a
>few slams on how the dub voice acting was only decent. Fans have been
saying
>for years they want great voice acting and a killer story. This might be
the
>finally universal acceptance anime fans need to look good and people are
trying
>to sabotage it already. Think of it. Strange.
Everyone's opinion is different. I haven't seen Princess Mononoke yet, so
I'm not going to comment on the voice acting quality. Also fans who wanted
great voice acting were fans who prefer dubs anyway. Frankly, I don't think
Jap voice acting can ever be replaced w/ American voice acting. Nor do I
think Jap voice acting can replace American voice acting in American
animations, such as The Little Mermaid, etc. Every language has different
inflections, etc. that can be lost during translation and dubbing. At least
I think so as a person who speaks two different languages fluently and
watched things dubbed both ways and compared them.
--
TJ
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1411
"Ken wa kyouki. Kenjutsu wa satsujinjutsu." -Rurouni Kenshin
Enrique Conty
Blach1 <bla...@aol.com> wrote:
>1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view it, will
>otakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore?
Some already do. They can go take up basketweaving,
that's still pretty obscure.
>2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle?
NO! I want anime to flow as free as the river!
>3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
>anime.
They already do. But the mainstream audience
tends to view *those* people as kooks.
I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
>books in the 1970s.
*1950's*, sonny. You know, the Red Menace et al?
>4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making
>money, but some stuff just scares me.
You're easily scared. I'm just amused.
(Conty forcefeeds Blach1 some Sailor Moon Fish Sausages.)
--
E n r i q u e C o n t y
co...@enteract.com
http://www.enteract.com/~conty/
LostRune
>
> > 2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted,
> > "95% of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent
> > oversees." Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
>
> U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap? They
> would never make money off it and they know it.
Actually, some "crap" turned out to be huge sellers, like Tekken.
And I wouldn't start on some of the hentai. ^_^
>
> > 3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
> > anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
> > books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame everyone
> > else" decade.
>
> People are already doing that with anime, though not very
> often. You've heard the stereotypes, haven't you? And
> besides that, as you note people have played the blame
> game before with other things (comic books, etc.). Yet
Though comics kinda turned into a collector's market,
mainly due to the events in the 50s.... ^_^
But I get your point. Same thing with video games.
Laters. =)
Stan
--
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__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita Lost...@optonline.net
| ( _| | U of Rochester sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | uhura.cc.rochester.edu/~sd005e
/___/\/\___ __| |__|___| \ ___|
SgtCuvie
>U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap?
Software Sculptors thought they could make money off Machine Robo. Only 2
volumes ever released. I still don't understand how Dancougar managed to get
finished. I watched the show from start to finish and wasn't overly impressed
with it. At the risk of being flamed, I put it just slightly better than Eva
which I couldn't stand after the 6th episode. Machine Robo I could only handle
one tape of.
SgtCuvie
Chika
> entered into anime. Anyone can answer because I really would like a few
> people to address these issues. Many people who post in anime newsgroups
> want others to accept anime so companies will do more translations. The
> ultimate goal seems to be acceptance on to regular television. I feel
> this is partly a mistake.
Not sure I agree with that, but fire away!
> Here's why:
> 1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view
> it, will otakus and casuals feel left out because its not special
> anymore? You can also substitute art films for anime in this case.
Does this mean that otaku like anime purely because it is a minority
interest? Methinks this argument is flawed since I and many of the people
I know that have anime interests have no such opinion. They enjoy anime
for what it is, not for who it attracts.
> 2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe)
> quoted, "95% of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and
> was sent oversees." Think of what would happen if the floodgates were
> forced wide open.
The problem is that this is one persons' opinion. There are titles that
have trickled out via fansub or otherwise that ppl would love to see
released properly, while there are other titles that have made it out
which folk have universally dubbed crap. There are also titles which will
never attract big audiences but do have a big cult following (UY comes to
mind, for example). Certainly the current status quo stops a fair amount
of shite from hitting the west, but it isn't perfect by any means.
> 3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal
> problems on anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the
> burning of comic books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my
> fault blame everyone else" decade.
Already happens! In the UK, a tabloid started a campaign against anime, or
"Cartoons from Hell" as they insisted on calling them. That was about 10
years ago. The problem is that if there is a possibility that someone can
blame something for anything, then they probably will.
> 4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making
> money, but some stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does
> someone out there really need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
Shades of "Tickle me Elmo" here! But I do know what you mean... ^_^
> 5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper
> introduction to make it a positive influence to the public (Princess
> Mononoke), I'm seeing a few slams on how the dub voice acting was only
> decent. Fans have been saying for years they want great voice acting and
> a killer story. This might be the finally universal acceptance anime
> fans need to look good and people are trying to sabotage it already.
> Think of it. Strange.
You are never going to please everyone! Mononoke Hime is a new film, using
a new company (relatively speaking) and there are going to be hiccups.
Also bear in mind that there are folk out there for whom the best dub in
the world will never satisfy them. One look at a "sub vs. dub" thread
anywhere on this group would convince you of that! Just remember that any
critic is only expressing an opinion, however "informed" they may be, and
that the acid test is always how YOU see it.
> That's all I can think of now. Sorry it's so long. Post to the newsgroup
> and give me your views.
No probs! I can see where you are coming from, but overall I'm not sure
that you have a lot to worry about. But maybe that's me...
--
______
| /\ | Chika (irc #anime) - mad...@argonet.co.uk
| //\\ | The Lurkers' Retreat / CrashnetUK
|_/__\_| http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/madoka/ (ZFC A)
... ASCII : Another System Crash Is Imminent
Frank Wustner
> Frank Wustner wrote:
> > bla...@aol.com wrote:
> > > 2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted,
> > > "95% of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent
> > > oversees." Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide
> > > open.
> > You are forgetting about economics. Why would any real
> > U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap? They
> > would never make money off it and they know it.
> Actually, some "crap" turned out to be huge sellers, like Tekken.
> And I wouldn't start on some of the hentai. ^_^
I should have phrased that better. When I said "crap", I
meant the stuff that bombed, not necessarily the stuff that
was bad. Many things I think are bad (Tekken, Night
Warriors, most hentai) sell extremely well, as you've said.
> > > 3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems
> > > on anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of
> > > comic books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame
> > > everyone else" decade.
> > People are already doing that with anime, though not very
> > often. You've heard the stereotypes, haven't you? And
> > besides that, as you note people have played the blame
> > game before with other things (comic books, etc.). Yet
> Though comics kinda turned into a collector's market,
> mainly due to the events in the 50s.... ^_^
> But I get your point. Same thing with video games.
Exactly. People these days (in the U.S. at least) are
blaming all kinds of media, in entertainment AND news, for
all kinds of problems. The media are still here in spite
of that.
Frank Wustner
> Frank Wustner wrote:
> >Why would any real
> >U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap?
> Software Sculptors thought they could make money off Machine Robo. Only 2
> volumes ever released. I still don't understand how Dancougar managed to get
> finished. I watched the show from start to finish and wasn't overly impressed
> with it. At the risk of being flamed, I put it just slightly better than Eva
> which I couldn't stand after the 6th episode. Machine Robo I could only handle
> one tape of.
I should have phrased that differently. When I said "crap"
I did not mean it in the subjective sense of what you or I
think is bad. I meant those shows that had bombed over in
Japan. Obviously, enough people liked Dancougar and Giant
Robo to have them released over here. They didn't bomb, at
least, not badly enough to be forgotten. In that sense,
they weren't just "crap", though you or I may personally
think so.
Jay Levy
first half was hard to watch ... but it got so much better at the end it was
unbelievable that the same people worked on it ... the 15 minute stories
that the stretched to fit the 22-24 minute range suddenly were very tight
and the characters started to develop and you actually cared what happened
... it was very weird ... but, like I said the last couple tapes were great,
the first couple so-so ...
Machine Robo I was excited about but ... well, I guess it did suck ...
Frank Wustner wrote in message ...
LostRune
>
> LostRune <Lost...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > Frank Wustner wrote:
> > > bla...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > > > 2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted,
> > > > "95% of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent
> > > > oversees." Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide
> > > > open.
>
> > > You are forgetting about economics. Why would any real
> > > U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap? They
> > > would never make money off it and they know it.
>
> > Actually, some "crap" turned out to be huge sellers, like Tekken.
> > And I wouldn't start on some of the hentai. ^_^
>
> I should have phrased that better. When I said "crap", I
> meant the stuff that bombed, not necessarily the stuff that
> was bad. Many things I think are bad (Tekken, Night
> Warriors, most hentai) sell extremely well, as you've said.
Still, there are some stuff in Japan that bombed but are quite good.
I haven't seen much of it, but some people like Violinist of Hamelin TV
series,
though it bombed big time in Japan.
Also, though they didn't exactly bomb, some titles didn't sell
too well in Japan but did well here (i.e. Battle Angel, Armitage).
But I get your point here too. ^_^
>
> > > > 3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems
> > > > on anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of
> > > > comic books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame
> > > > everyone else" decade.
>
> > > People are already doing that with anime, though not very
> > > often. You've heard the stereotypes, haven't you? And
> > > besides that, as you note people have played the blame
> > > game before with other things (comic books, etc.). Yet
>
> > Though comics kinda turned into a collector's market,
> > mainly due to the events in the 50s.... ^_^
> > But I get your point. Same thing with video games.
>
> Exactly. People these days (in the U.S. at least) are
> blaming all kinds of media, in entertainment AND news, for
> all kinds of problems. The media are still here in spite
> of that.
>
Yeah, just hope the witch hunts like in the 50s
(not just with the comics - and look what happened to it,
but also McCarthy) does not happen again.
Though Congress is forming some sort of
Committee on American Culture,
for now it seems it wouldn't come to that.
Chika
<arro...@rahul.net> wrote:
> If anime becomes well accepted because it is changed in order to fit
> "everyone's" tastes, I'd certainly feel left out. And unfortunately,
> this is the most likely scenario for "anime becoming popular". The
> anime that is most likely to be popular among non-fans is already
> changed the most: look at the removal of cultural references in Ping
> Pong Club, or the altered American openings on Fist of the North Star
> and Street Fighter II V. Or the lack of any sub on Panzer Dragoon and
> Sonic.
If that were to happen, I agree. I do see shades of that already with some
of the stuff coming out e.g. BGC2040, as well as some of the hatchet jobs
done on Cobra's BGM and others by Mangle in the UK which makes me wonder
whether the companies concerned are really arsed about presenting anime
per se or just into finding a cheap source of animation for the masses
just like Harmony Gold did with Robotech or Filmation with Battle of the
Planets. I don't think I would swear off anime for that reason, but it
would make me very much more selective about titles...
--
______
| /\ | Chika (irc #anime) - mad...@argonet.co.uk
| //\\ | The Lurkers' Retreat / CrashnetUK
|_/__\_| http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/madoka/ (ZFC A)
... I'm not schizophrenic. It's this guy beside me!
Arnold Kim
----------
In article <19991002211836...@ng-cr1.aol.com>,
bla...@aol.com (Blach1) wrote:
>Here are some things that has been bothering me for years since I entered
>into
>anime. Anyone can answer because I really would like a few people to address
>these issues. Many people who post in anime newsgroups want others to accept
>anime so companies will do more translations. The ultimate goal seems to be
>acceptance on to regular television. I feel this is partly a mistake. Here's
>why:
>
>1. If anime becomes well accepted to the point everyone wants to view it,
>will
>otakus and casuals feel left out because its not special anymore? You can
>also
>substitute art films for anime in this case.
I don't. Everyone wanted to watch Star Wars Episode One this summer,
but I don't think that kept the diehard Star Wars fans from feeling
"left out". As a matter of fact, they got more attention than they
ever did.
There's also heavy fandom surrounding Star Trek, X-Files, and the
entire comic book industry, all of which are somewhat "mainstream".
>2. Shouldn't anime remain at a trickle? A poster from Asia (maybe) quoted,
>"95%
>of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and was sent oversees."
>Think of what would happen if the floodgates were forced wide open.
I'll put it this way: People will eventually watch what's good. If a
crappy anime show ever comes here, it'll be canned.
Besides, it is at a trickle right now.
>3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal problems on
>anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning of comic
>books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault blame everyone
>else" decade.
But by the time it becomes mainstream, people will realize that there
are so many different kinds of anime out there that you can't just
blame them all. People perpetually blame societal problems on TV and
movies; do you really see a _serious_ backlash against them?
>4. I know merchandise is sometimes important to keep a series making money,
>but
>some stuff just scares me. Really scares me. Example: Does someone out there
>really need a Hello Kitty vibrator? (shudders)
If tthey don't need or want them, they won't buy them, thus they won't
come here.
>5. When a big budget anime finally gets star voices and the proper
>introduction
>to make it a positive influence to the public (Princess Mononoke), I'm
>seeing a
>few slams on how the dub voice acting was only decent. Fans have been saying
>for years they want great voice acting and a killer story. This might be the
>finally universal acceptance anime fans need to look good and people are
>trying
>to sabotage it already. Think of it. Strange.
It is strange. I think it just proves that some sub fans are just
about impossible to please. And some fans don't want universal
acceptance unless it's under their own terms.
Arnold Kim
Paul Lampshire
>Or the lack of
>any sub on Panzer Dragoon and Sonic.
Are they planned for DVD? If so, there might be a chance [I can think of a
number of Dub only titles that got bilingual & subbed DVDs].
OTOH are they any good in the first place?
--
God's in His heaven, all's right with the world.
Donald Keon Kim
My only real concern about anime going mainstream is that there may be
companies that actually do not care about the fan base (well, we would
become the hardcore fan base if it went mainstream) taking over the
industry.
I'm talking about things like dub-only, poor translations on subs, reduced
quality-control. Also, things petitions will lose strength if they don't
have to care about the hardcore fan. If the company is purely in it for
the money, and it has gone mainstream, they can make plenty without
appeasing what would become the minority (us).
Also, some of the companies that know the genre well may get pushed aside
by some larger companies.
The impending release of Card Captor Sakura will either alleviate or
strengthen these fears. Although I haven't seen it, so I guess ignorance
may truly be bliss.
^_^
I personally don't want anime to become mainstream, although I want as
many people as possible to become fans.
Don Kim
dk...@midway.uchicago.edu
--
John Hokanson Jr.
(maybe) quoted,
> > > "95% of anime is crap. The other 5% is what became popular and
was sent
> > > oversees." Think of what would happen if the floodgates were
forced wide open.
> >
> > U.S. anime company bother themselves with the crap? They
> > would never make money off it and they know it.
>
> Actually, some "crap" turned out to be huge sellers, like Tekken.
The lesson to be learned here is that crap sells well if it has a video
game tie in. Particularly if its a popular fighting game. Companies
know this, which is why a number of companies have anime series along
these lines licensed (Manga with Street Fighter, CPM with Toshiden, Viz
with Fatal Furry, ect.). "^_^"
> And I wouldn't start on some of the hentai. ^_^
>
Well "sex sells", is not just a rule, it's a commandment of the
entertainment industry.
> >
> > > 3. A backlash could develop. People could start blaming societal
problems on
> > > anime. I don't know if anyone remembers reading about the burning
of comic
> > > books in the 1970s. Remember the 1990s are the "not my fault
blame everyone
> > > else" decade.
> >
> > People are already doing that with anime, though not very
> > often. You've heard the stereotypes, haven't you? And
> > besides that, as you note people have played the blame
> > game before with other things (comic books, etc.). Yet
>
> Though comics kinda turned into a collector's market,
> mainly due to the events in the 50s.... ^_^
>
> But I get your point. Same thing with video games.
>
Liberman was an ass, but I'm kinda glad he backed off once he got the
voluntary rating system. I actually think the rating system is a good
idea now because it might prevent backlash. Every little bit helps...
--
John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
"Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
bandwidth..."
- Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kerisu
<arro...@rahul.net> wrote:
> If anime becomes well accepted because it is changed in order to fit
> "everyone's" tastes, I'd certainly feel left out. And unfortunately,
> this is the most likely scenario for "anime becoming popular". The
> anime that is most likely to be popular among non-fans is already
> changed the most: look at the removal of cultural references in Ping
> Pong Club, or the altered American openings on Fist of the North Star
> Sonic.
Just to nitpick, there is a sub of Sonic on the DVD release. And
it's not dubtitled, either -- Robotnik is known by his Japanese name,
Dr. Eggman.
The rest of the stuff is obnoxious, though. Hmm... FOTNS and SFIIV,
both TV series, both released by Manga... ack... if they so much as
tweak the opening sequence for Virus when it comes out, oh, there will
be hell to pay. Oh yes. There _will_ be hell to pay. *rubs hands
together, sinister-like, thinking of Dragon Ash*
Take care,
- Kerisu
--
.--[ Blue Pulse ]-----------------[ Sunkist Chris ]--.
: Forever an oyster in a world filled with piranhas. :
`------------------[ http://bluepulse.webjump.com ]--'
Heaven's Cloud
Does anyone ever look at Variety. You can see listings of anime being
sold by companies as a "product" which makes sense but doesn't sound
right to a fans ears. Anyway, an issue I just looked at had a brief
mention of CC Sakura with a picture, with a description of something
like "a scifi girl genie, who, like Pokemon, goes around collecting
trading cards."
On a side note, if Nelvana doesn't sub CCS, I think Variety would be a
great place to take out a full page ad that says "Screw the fans" and
then goes on to chastise Nelvana for not releasing a subtitled version
of CCS. I wonder how much this would cost...
--
Heaven's Cloud
*Current Favorites *Anime: Tenchi Muyo
*Games: Lunar
Scott Schimmel
: Does anyone ever look at Variety. You can see listings of anime being
: sold by companies as a "product" which makes sense but doesn't sound
: right to a fans ears. Anyway, an issue I just looked at had a brief
: mention of CC Sakura with a picture, with a description of something
: like "a scifi girl genie, who, like Pokemon, goes around collecting
: trading cards."
Which is actually a pretty good description, aside from the 'scifi'
part. Kind of scary, that.
: On a side note, if Nelvana doesn't sub CCS, I think Variety would be a
: great place to take out a full page ad that says "Screw the fans" and
: then goes on to chastise Nelvana for not releasing a subtitled version
: of CCS. I wonder how much this would cost...
Full page ad? A couple thousand dollars. Maybe even into the tens of
thousands, Variety has a pretty high circulation.
--
Scott Schimmel http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~schimmel/
Ex ignorantia ad sapientium; "You really aren't normal, are you?"
ex luce ad tenebras. -- Miki Koishikawa
Heaven's Cloud
schi...@red.seas.upenn.edu (Scott Schimmel) wrote:
> Heaven's Cloud wrote:
> : Does anyone ever look at Variety. You can see listings of anime
> : being
> : sold by companies as a "product" which makes sense but doesn't sound
> : right to a fans ears. Anyway, an issue I just looked at had a brief
> : mention of CC Sakura with a picture, with a description of something
> : like "a scifi girl genie, who, like Pokemon, goes around collecting
> : trading cards."
>
> Which is actually a pretty good description, aside from the 'scifi'
> part. Kind of scary, that.
>
CCS yeah, but I think they got the Pokemon anime and card game a little
mixed up. Gambling is fun ^_^
> : On a side note, if Nelvana doesn't sub CCS, I think Variety would be
>a
> : great place to take out a full page ad that says "Screw the fans"
>and
> : then goes on to chastise Nelvana for not releasing a subtitled
>version
> : of CCS. I wonder how much this would cost...
>
> Full page ad? A couple thousand dollars. Maybe even into the tens of
> thousands, Variety has a pretty high circulation.
>
I figured that much. Although I think it would be pretty funny if I
actually tried to do something like that.