Whats the best?
Tony
Warewolf
@posting.google.com:
> Who do you reckon does better animation; warner bros or disney??
Since a lot of the animation is 'farmed out' these days, I'm going to say,
Tokyo Movie Shinsha. Their work on shows like Mighty Orbots, the Bionic 6
and Animaniacs is memorable but the scenes they did for 'Return of the
Joker' should have earned them more than a paycheck.
On the other hand, if you're talking about writing, storyboarding and other
factors, that's a little tougher since, again, shows like Animaniacs,
B:TAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Gummi Bears, Duck Tales, Talespin and
Darkwing Duck have their own merits to stand on.
Still, if you're willing to ignore their questionable business practices
(ie, WB marketing; downsizing of animators among other things at Disney)
I'll probably choose the WB since they seem to have taken more risks
overall than a certain 'rat' named 'Ricky'. ;)
Signed,
Warewolf
who probably *could* make a fine TV exec but wouldn't want to. }X^Ş
DishRoom1
Tony wrote --
>> Who do you reckon does better animation; warner bros or disney??
>
>Since a lot of the animation is 'farmed out' these days, I'm going to say,
>Tokyo Movie Shinsha. Their work on shows like Mighty Orbots, the Bionic 6
>and Animaniacs is memorable but the scenes they did for 'Return of the
>Joker' should have earned them more than a paycheck.
>
>On the other hand, if you're talking about writing, storyboarding and other
>factors, that's a little tougher since, again, shows like Animaniacs,
>B:TAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Gummi Bears, Duck Tales, Talespin and
>Darkwing Duck have their own merits to stand on.
My opinion on this is different. I think that WB has had hands down done better
in television animation than Disney. Especially that "Animaniacs" was very
funny, and the DC Comics-based rooster of animated shows countinues to be
strong.
But the Disney library of animated TV, on the other hand... Well, of
"Gargoyols" (sp?) I didn't see any of the entire series except for the pilot
episode on a rented video tape, which looked excelent in writing and animation.
"Wuzzles", which I watched as a kid, was kind of OK. But everything else --
"Gummy Bears", "DuckTales", "Chip n' Dale's Rescue Rangers", "Talespin", "House
of Mouse", feature animation spinoffs like "The Little Mermaid" and "Timon and
Pumba" -- had left me with a juvenille bad taste in my mouth. The quality of
animation was varied form episode to episode, scene to scene, somtimes, and not
as great as the more masterful animation of the classic Disney shorts and
movies. The stories were often unoriginal, and the jokes were little or not
funny, with little going for the adults. A sharp contrast to Walt's "all-ages"
concept from his movies and TV shows.
Aside of that, in the realm of movie-theater feature animation, Disney has been
king through better and worse alike, untill the current stepp decline by
Eisner. The only good Warner Brothers feature animation I could think of was
"Watership Down" from 1978, though that was made by a studio out side WB, who
distributed it.
In theatrical short movies, both studios are tied each both having a flagship
cast of world-famous characters that make us laugh if written well, each have
their golden classics, hits, misses, and such.
>
>Still, if you're willing to ignore their questionable business practices
>(ie, WB marketing; downsizing of animators among other things at Disney)
Such as Disney's "no hand-drawing" decree, which is stupid since people are
still into Cartoon Network, Japanese anime and still getting cel-animated
entertainment on VHS/DVD in stores, eBay and such.
>I'll probably choose the WB since they seem to have taken more risks
>overall than a certain 'rat' named 'Ricky'. ;)
*LOL!* :-)))
>
>Signed,
>Warewolf
>who probably *could* make a fine TV exec but wouldn't want to. }X^Þ
John Shughart, who wishes he could make hand-drawn cartoon to the public.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>Since a lot of the animation is 'farmed out' these
>days, I'm going to say, Tokyo Movie Shinsha. Their
>work on shows like Mighty Orbots, the Bionic 6
>and Animaniacs is memorable but the scenes they
>did for 'Return of the Joker' should have earned
>them more than a paycheck.
Let's not forget the works they've done domestically as well, though not
all of it has been seen commonly in the US as it was for the
subcontracted and co-productions. I'm still amused by the work on shows
like Rose of Versailies, Treasure Island, Lupin III and others.
>On the other hand, if you're talking about writing,
>storyboarding and other factors, that's a little
>tougher since, again, shows like Animaniacs,
>B:TAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Gummi
>Bears, Duck Tales, Talespin and Darkwing Duck
>have their own merits to stand on.
Very much.
>Still, if you're willing to ignore their questionable
>business practices (ie, WB marketing; downsizing
>of animators among other things at Disney) I'll
>probably choose the WB since they seem to have
>taken more risks overall than a certain 'rat' named
>'Ricky'. ;)
You said it!
>Signed,
>Warewolf
>who probably *could* make a fine TV exec but
>wouldn't want to. }X^Þ
Perhaps, though I wouldn't mind being one as long as I had a say in
something that challenges typical corporate thinking.
From the Master of Car-too-nal Knowledge...
Christopher M. Sobieniak
--"Fightin' the Frizzies since 1978"--
Chris Sobieniak
>But the Disney library of animated TV, on the other
>hand... Well, of "Gargoyols" (sp?) I didn't see any
>of the entire series except for the pilot episode on
>a rented video tape, which looked excelent in
>writing and animation. "Wuzzles", which I watched
>as a kid, was kind of OK. But everything else --
>"Gummy Bears", "DuckTales", "Chip n' Dale's
>Rescue Rangers", "Talespin", "House of Mouse",
>feature animation spinoffs like "The Little Mermaid"
>and "Timon and Pumba" -- had left me with a
>juvenille bad taste in my mouth. The quality of
>animation was varied form episode to episode,
>scene to scene, somtimes, and not as great as the
>more masterful animation of the classic Disney
>shorts and movies.
Due in part to farming the episodes out to different studios than to use
one studio for the entire series in this case.
>The stories were often unoriginal, and the jokes
>were little or not funny, with little going for the
>adults. A sharp contrast to Walt's "all-ages"
>concept from his movies and TV shows.
Sad really (also part of what became the mindset of animation being
looked upon as an "electronic babysitter" in the last half of the 20th
Century).
>Aside of that, in the realm of movie-theater feature
>animation, Disney has been king through better
>and worse alike, untill the current stepp decline by
>Eisner. The only good Warner Brothers feature
>animation I could think of was "Watership Down"
>from 1978, though that was made by a studio out
>side WB, who distributed it.
And a decent film on it's own (probably didn't need to be released by
WB, but then, who would've anyway).
>Such as Disney's "no hand-drawing" decree, which
>is stupid since people are still into Cartoon
>Network, Japanese anime and still getting
>cel-animated entertainment on VHS/DVD in stores,
>eBay and such.
If anything, there's an unquestionable amount of fans or "otaku" out
there that still go for animation and animation-related items of
interest. For a while, I've been picking up a lot of goodies off eBay,
some recent aquisitions I got is an animation cel of O.G. Readmore, some
16mm prints of cartoons including Toei's first feature "Panda and the
Magic Serpent" and some other cool stuff.
>>I'll probably choose the WB since they seem to
>>have taken more risks overall than a certain 'rat'
>>named 'Ricky'. ;)
>*LOL!* :-)))
We all know how stingy "Ricky Rouse" can be over thes things!
>>Signed,
>>Warewolf
>>who probably *could* make a fine TV exec but
>>wouldn't want to. }X^Þ
>John Shughart, who wishes he could make
>hand-drawn cartoon to the public.
I'm hoping to get into that ASAP!
Steve Carras
ANIMANAICS was NOT funnyt.
Remember this from 1998?
The Spie (n...@way.com) wrote:
: On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:01:50 -0800, big...@spumco.com (Stephen W.
: Worth) wrote:
: >> You don't like Animaniacs, which is the
: >> closest thing to the original Looney Tunes
: >Animaniacs is a heck of a long ways away from the original Looney
: >Tunes. It isn't written, directed, produced, designed or drawn
: >anything like the old Warner theatrical shorts.
: Keep playing that same tired old tune, Steve. No one's listening
: anymore after your last anti-A! tirade.
I"m listening....and I agree with him....
(break from qoute)
I do as well.
(resume quoter)
Think no one remembers about
: your ill-informed comments when they DARED parody Friz and Chuck?
WEll.....i've yet to see this......but it didn't sound clever, prolonged,
or consequential. I'd like to see them parody the bad animation in their
shows....but the producers wouldn't think THAT was funny.
: Well, I do. And even after explaining to you the difference between
: 1948 and 1998, you still kept on. I bet you'll flip if Jerry and Will
: decide to cover the 90s WB material in the promised revision of the WB
: reference guide.
Well, I'm sure it will be MANDATED to do that....the modern-day Warner
Bros. Animation wants desperately to forge some connection to the old
cartoons. They probably think what they do is better....and I've met some
of these people....they're deluded enough to think that.
]
Terrence Briggs
> Who do you reckon does better animation; warner bros or disney??
Disney. Disney animators could handle pretty much any concept WB
threw at 'em, but I only WB's vest best animators could pull off
Disney's greatest accomplishments with equal panache. I doubt anyone
OTHER than Disney's finest artists could pull off another Pinocchio or
whathaveyou. Heck, I doubt WB could pull off some of the stuff Disney
TV farmed out to its now-defunct Japanese and Austrailian studios.
Having said that, both studios needed to stop wasting their
considerable talent on second-rate, kid-centric Hollywood vehicles
decades ago. Now it may be too late to do anything but hope CGI
studios can save their rears. Disney TV has Kim Possible and nothing
else. Warner Bros. TV has Justice League on cable, and dumped
mediocre product on broadcst TV (Teen Titans and Da Boom Crew). I'm
sure that I'm missing a lot of detail, however.
Terrence Briggs, grousing a bit
Peace to you...
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>>But the Disney library of animated TV, on the other
>>hand... Well, of "Gargoyols" (sp?) I didn't see any
>>of the entire series except for the pilot episode on
>>a rented video tape, which looked excelent in
>>writing and animation. "Wuzzles", which I watched
>>as a kid, was kind of OK. But everything else --
>>"Gummy Bears", "DuckTales", "Chip n' Dale's
>>Rescue Rangers", "Talespin", "House of Mouse",
>>feature animation spinoffs like "The Little Mermaid"
>>and "Timon and Pumba" -- had left me with a
>>juvenille bad taste in my mouth. The quality of
>>animation was varied form episode to episode,
>>scene to scene, somtimes, and not as great as the
>>more masterful animation of the classic Disney
>>shorts and movies.
>
>Due in part to farming the episodes out to different studios than to use
>one studio for the entire series in this case.
Yes, Disney used to produce those shows with two studios each for one series,
the now-defunct Japanese arm and the still-runnng Australian studio. Both were
also of use for the corperation's cheapquel brand.
>
>>The stories were often unoriginal, and the jokes
>>were little or not funny, with little going for the
>>adults. A sharp contrast to Walt's "all-ages"
>>concept from his movies and TV shows.
>
>Sad really (also part of what became the mindset of animation being
>looked upon as an "electronic babysitter" in the last half of the 20th
>Century).
I know. And according to the SaveDisney personality "Merlin Jones",
greenlighting the shows was the start of how Eisner began his reign of terror
in Disney's toon world just before the cheapquels and stuff. The Disney
animated shows were produced around the same time the in-house Feature
Animation studio was rebuilding Walt's catoon ideals with the classic movies
"The Little Mermaid" and "Beauty and the Beast".
The Feature Animation folks didn't like the the television animation unit due
to Disney having a rich artistic and entertainment value to human culture that
is too valuable to be cheapened. Eisner on the other hand didn't care. Having
being a boss over Saturday Morning TV at ABC prior, Eisner wanted Disney to be
like Hanna-Barbera in producing animation at a cheaper cost, and in making TV
shows. He had gotten the likes of Tad Stones to do these HB-ish Disney shows,
with no care how sullify to the public Scrooge McDuck, Chip and Dale, the
"Jungle Book", "Little Mermiad" and "Aladdin" characters, all who have been in
better things.
Essentically, comparing the electronic babysitters of "Ducktales", "Rescue
Rangers", "Talespin", "Darkwing Duck", "Gummi Bears" and "Goof Troop" next the
the real classical Chip and Dale, "The Jungle Book", the classic "Uncle
Scrooge" comics, ect. is so far apart as east and west. It's like comparing
McDonald's junk food to well slowly-cooked meals, or out of shaped acne-faced
weaklings to Lou Ferrigno and Arnold Swartzenegger.
Oddly, I got to read an online interview one animation-related magazine made
with Stones. He spoke of how he, Eisner and a pre-Dreamworks Jeff Katzenberg
would meet together to create the shows. Two that stuck out to me about Stones
was he described EIsner as someone he could easily work with in creative works
(yes, that now sounds odd, doesn't it? But this it TV animation we are talking
about, remember.)
Also, when Stones recalled his cherished creation, Duckwing Duck, he spoke of
how when the writers have to have to write a new episode, stones would have
them think of the covers of old superhero comics and base the story idea on it.
Make of it as you will.
OH, and Stones was anti-continuty. (Which was why Negaduck at first originated
as Darkwing's evil twin, then in the next episode was living in a "Mirror,
Mirror" type of alterative universe.)
>
>>Aside of that, in the realm of movie-theater feature
>>animation, Disney has been king through better
>>and worse alike, untill the current stepp decline by
>>Eisner. The only good Warner Brothers feature
>>animation I could think of was "Watership Down"
>>from 1978, though that was made by a studio out
>>side WB, who distributed it.
>
>And a decent film on it's own (probably didn't need to be released by
>WB, but then, who would've anyway).
Agreed. ^_^ It wouldn't have had run past Disney due to the dark themes, the
dim color scheme, the unusal, near-realisitic drawing design for most of the
movie, the Nazi-like rabbits and the blood and death themes. Come to think of
it, it's a miracle Warner Bros. distributed this Martin Rosen movie when it
didn't match the common American perception of cartoon animation. Rosen didn't
have had so much luck with "The Plague Dogs".
>
>>Such as Disney's "no hand-drawing" decree, which
>>is stupid since people are still into Cartoon
>>Network, Japanese anime and still getting
>>cel-animated entertainment on VHS/DVD in stores,
>>eBay and such.
>
>If anything, there's an unquestionable amount of fans or "otaku" out
>there that still go for animation and animation-related items of
>interest. For a while, I've been picking up a lot of goodies off eBay,
>some recent aquisitions I got is an animation cel of O.G. Readmore, some
>16mm prints of cartoons including Toei's first feature "Panda and the
>Magic Serpent" and some other cool stuff.
I'd love to somehow see the early Japanese anime, which doesn't seem to be
anywhere in US VHS/DVD (save for a few TV shows like "Kimba the White Lion" or
"Speed Racer")
>
John Shughart
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>> Warewolf wrote --
Well, I still liked the show. Perhaps not quite up to snuff as the original
"Looney Tunes", but better than "Tiny Toons". It had some amusingly silly
moments when it was on Fox. And Maranda Mina was the first of the sexiest
animated characters ever on television, followed by Rouge the Bat on "Sonic X"
and, to some extent Renamon from "Digimon Tamers." ^_^
And besides, even if they think it was good or bad, at least "Animaniacs"
tried its best to entertain well. Unlike the Television animations of a certain
mouse-eared studio (cough-cough) where the episodes of all the shows are all
summed up in some brain-cell-killing rehashes of characters involved with some
goofy, stale, so-called "adventure", said episode climax with some character A
pouting "Oh, if I haven't done so-or-so, none of this would happen" play, and
the heroes overcome the villian with some S&P-approved edu-tainment moral
lesson. Disney Company, you should have stuck to your theatrical animation job.
>
> Think no one remembers about
>: your ill-informed comments when they DARED parody Friz and Chuck?
They lampooned the old Warner-Bros. directors/animators? I've never seen such
an episode? (Though I used to watch the show on the Fox network before Warner
Bros. yanked it away to their WB network, where there is no close affiliate
station to carry it in my area.)
>
>WEll.....i've yet to see this......but it didn't sound clever, prolonged,
>or consequential. I'd like to see them parody the bad animation in their
>shows....but the producers wouldn't think THAT was funny.
>
>Well, I'm sure it will be MANDATED to do that....the modern-day Warner
>Bros. Animation wants desperately to forge some connection to the old
>cartoons. They probably think what they do is better....and I've met some
>of these people....they're deluded enough to think that.
>
Again, maybe it wasn't quite a classic, but it stood up wil enough on its own
merits. Anyone else think ifever "Animaniacs" was good or awful?
John Shughart
Chika
<dish...@aol.com> wrote:
> Well, I still liked the show. Perhaps not quite up to snuff as the
> original "Looney Tunes", but better than "Tiny Toons". It had some
> amusingly silly moments when it was on Fox. And Maranda Mina was the
> first of the sexiest animated characters ever on television,
Who?
> followed by Rouge the Bat on "Sonic X" and, to some extent Renamon from
> "Digimon Tamers." ^_^
I preferred Lilimon from the earlier series.
> And besides, even if they think it was good or bad, at least
> "Animaniacs" tried its best to entertain well.
To an extent, yes. It always struck me that they were trying to do a
similar comedy style to the gags in Airplane/Police Squad whilst still
trying to use the old forms, lampooning them at times.
> Unlike the Television animations of a certain mouse-eared studio
> (cough-cough) where the episodes of all the shows are all summed up in
> some brain-cell-killing rehashes of characters involved with some goofy,
> stale, so-called "adventure", said episode climax with some character A
> pouting "Oh, if I haven't done so-or-so, none of this would happen"
> play, and the heroes overcome the villian with some S&P-approved
> edu-tainment moral lesson. Disney Company, you should have stuck to your
> theatrical animation job.
Methinks that is one of many problems that Disney have had over the last
decade or so. They see themselves, at least as far as these TV shows go,
as some sort of moral teacher rather than a pure entertainer, which has
led to a number of poorly thought out shows and the infamous stock plot
(see the many comments in the Weekenders thread that ran here for a number
of months, if you can stand to do it!)
They even tried to parody it in one episode of Pepper Ann but ended up
turning that into a morality play (oh, if only I had watched the end of
the show! If only I hadn't tried to use cartoons as a basis for real life
decisions and so on). Indeed they have set themselves up for parody
themselves, for example in many of the South Park episodes.
Getting back to the subject at hand, however, Animaniacs is not the best
cartoon ever made, but it does have its moments, and does even approach
classic status in places. My biggest gripe, as some may remember me saying
before, is that they use a lot of character, cultural and current affair
references. There are two reasons why these were a bad idea.
1. Cultural references are only any good when used in a culture where they
are recognised. One line, for example, in the episode "Wally Llama" comes
to mind:-
Yakko: "...as bad as sweating to the oldies."
Dot: "But not as annoying."
I can possibly guess what that means, but I don't know for sure. That
means that any comedy value is lost on me. That may not matter where the
show is shown in the US where the reference is possibly going to make
sense but, elsewhere, it simply becomes a waste of a line. There are many
examples in the series where this happens.
2. Current Affair gags are only any good where the affair in question is
reasonably current, or the audience at least remembers the affair in
question. The earlier (and more often played) title sequence itself will
eventually become an anachronism.
"Bill Clinton plays the sax?" ask the kiddies of the future.
"Who's Bill Clinton?"
"He was a sexually promiscuous US president in the late 20th
century," you might reply.
"So what's funny about that?"
This is the reason why political and celebrity satire has a limited
lifespan. Even where we remember people like Clinton or any of the other
characters that the Animaniacs parodied, the joke soon becomes stale. Just
look at the oft-played Looney Tunes. They parodied many characters of
their day, and this was funny at the time. However these make little sense
to the current generation because they don't remember Groucho Marx, Bing
Crosby or WC Fields or any of the other lampoons. So it was with them, so
it will be with Yakko, Wakko and Dot.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// Guess what? Google *doesn't* own Usenet! Boycott Google now!
... (beep) Help, I've fallen and can't reach the beer.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>To an extent, yes. It always struck me that they
>were trying to do a similar comedy style to the
>gags in Airplane/Police Squad whilst still trying to
>use the old forms, lampooning them at times.
That's how I looked at it.
>Methinks that is one of many problems that Disney
>have had over the last decade or so. They see
>themselves, at least as far as these TV shows go,
>as some sort of moral teacher rather than a pure
>entertainer, which has led to a number of poorly
>thought out shows and the infamous stock plot
>(see the many comments in the Weekenders
>thread that ran here for a number of months, if you
>can stand to do it!)
This is probably why I didn't pay much attention to any of those shows
at all!
>They even tried to parody it in one episode of
>Pepper Ann but ended up turning that into a
>morality play (oh, if only I had watched the end of
>the show! If only I hadn't tried to use cartoons as a
>basis for real life decisions and so on).
Amusing I didn't see that, though I haven't watched much Saturday
Morning by that point in time.
>Indeed they have set themselves up for parody
>themselves, for example in many of the South Park
>episodes.
The "You Know, I've Learned Something Today" schtick does get old fast.
>Getting back to the subject at hand, however,
>Animaniacs is not the best cartoon ever made, but
>it does have its moments, and does even approach
>classic status in places. My biggest gripe, as some
>may remember me saying before, is that they use
>a lot of character, cultural and current affair
>references. There are two reasons why these were
>a bad idea.
Now I can understand why.
>1. Cultural references are only any good when
>used in a culture where they are recognised. One
>line, for example, in the episode "Wally Llama"
>comes to mind:-
> Yakko: "...as bad as
sweating to the
>oldies."
> Dot: "But not as annoying."
>I can possibly guess what that means, but I don't
>know for sure.
Well if you must, "Sweatin' to the Oldies" was a series of videos, audio
cassettes and other materials devised by Richard Simmons in the hopes
that a middle-aged class of obese Americans would love doing aerobic
workouts to tunes of the '50s, '60s and such. My mom bought me one of
his products, yet I STILL haven't bothered using it!
>That means that any comedy value is lost on me.
>That may not matter where the show is shown in
>the US where the reference is possibly going to
>make sense but, elsewhere, it simply becomes a
>waste of a line. There are many examples in the
>series where this happens.
Though it has been a common ideal that had been done before by WB in
those toons of old. Most kids these days wouldn't understand what
Yosemite Sam meant by "You noticed I didn't say Richard!" in
"High-Diving Hare". This was a reference to a popular "race record"
from the 1940s that I have a copy of a cover on 78rpm.
>2. Current Affair gags are only any good where the
>affair in question is reasonably current, or the
>audience at least remembers the affair in question.
>The earlier (and more often played) title sequence
>itself will eventually become an anachronism.
> "Bill Clinton plays the
sax?" ask the
>kiddies of the future. "Who's Bill Clinton?"
> "He was a sexually
promiscuous US
>president in the late 20th century," you might
>reply.
> "So what's funny about
that?"
Heh, yet at the time, the only problem he had was Whitewater, but he
could play the saxophone anyway!
>This is the reason why political and celebrity satire
>has a limited lifespan. Even where we remember
>people like Clinton or any of the other characters
>that the Animaniacs parodied, the joke soon
>becomes stale. Just look at the oft-played Looney
>Tunes. They parodied many characters of their
>day, and this was funny at the time. However
>these make little sense to the current generation
>because they don't remember Groucho Marx, Bing
>Crosby or WC Fields or any of the other lampoons.
>So it was with them, so it will be with Yakko,
>Wakko and Dot.
>//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
Which is why it's been a questionable concern by those in the animation
community over the topical nature of those classic cartoons, and why
characters like Bugs Bunny may not hold up well for later generations of
viewers because of their dated status and the material they have been
in.
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>> Well, I still liked the show. Perhaps not quite up to snuff as the
>> original "Looney Tunes", but better than "Tiny Toons". It had some
>> amusingly silly moments when it was on Fox. And Maranda Mina was the
>> first of the sexiest animated characters ever on television,
>
>Who?
Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk white-furred anthro-animal with blond
hair.
>
>> followed by Rouge the Bat on "Sonic X" and, to some extent Renamon from
>> "Digimon Tamers." ^_^
>
>I preferred Lilimon from the earlier series.
Never saw the earlier series. anywhere on the web where I could see pictures of
Lilimon?
>
>> And besides, even if they think it was good or bad, at least
>> "Animaniacs" tried its best to entertain well.
>
>To an extent, yes. It always struck me that they were trying to do a
>similar comedy style to the gags in Airplane/Police Squad whilst still
>trying to use the old forms, lampooning them at times.
>
>> Unlike the Television animations of a certain mouse-eared studio
>> (cough-cough) where the episodes of all the shows are all summed up in
>> some brain-cell-killing rehashes of characters involved with some goofy,
>> stale, so-called "adventure", said episode climax with some character A
>> pouting "Oh, if I haven't done so-or-so, none of this would happen"
>> play, and the heroes overcome the villian with some S&P-approved
>> edu-tainment moral lesson. Disney Company, you should have stuck to your
>> theatrical animation job.
>
>Methinks that is one of many problems that Disney have had over the last
>decade or so. They see themselves, at least as far as these TV shows go,
>as some sort of moral teacher rather than a pure entertainer, which has
>led to a number of poorly thought out shows and the infamous stock plot
>(see the many comments in the Weekenders thread that ran here for a number
>of months, if you can stand to do it!)
Agreed. And all of this is contrary to the entertainment values Walt Disney set
up decades past. Disney was more of an entertainer who would push the art of
cartoon animation very far. He envision that his knack of cartooning was to be
aimed to both real children and the inner child of adult people, and he and his
animators set a high standard in creativity in both story and animation.
Michael Eisner's only experience with animation was being the head of ABC,
where he would screen and greenlighted the sub-standard works of
Hanna-Barberra, Filmation and the like. When he was carried over to head
Disney, he brought along the idea that Disney should create low-budget
animation with no thought of creativity, and that the animation should be
outsourced to studios outside the US -- much like the producers of Saturday
Morning television would. But Roy E. Disney wouldn't let him do this directly
to Feature Animation, nor let him nor Jeff Katzenberg shut the Feature
animation staff down. But Eisner and Katzenberg still snuck around R. Disney
and founded Walt Disney Television Animation. And so Eisner's
Hanna-Barberra-ish bastardzations on Disney was born here with "Gummi
Bears","DuckTales", ect.
More of this can be explained the main page of the SaveDisney.com website in
the 10-part article by "Merlin Jones", "The Rise and Fall of Feature
Animation."
>
>They even tried to parody it in one episode of Pepper Ann but ended up
>turning that into a morality play (oh, if only I had watched the end of
>the show! If only I hadn't tried to use cartoons as a basis for real life
>decisions and so on). Indeed they have set themselves up for parody
>themselves, for example in many of the South Park episodes.
Doesn't Eisner's Disney seems to have trouble with heavy self-parody or
pop-culture jokes lately? ("Hercules", "Home on the Range")
>
>Getting back to the subject at hand, however, Animaniacs is not the best
>cartoon ever made, but it does have its moments, and does even approach
>classic status in places. My biggest gripe, as some may remember me saying
>before, is that they use a lot of character, cultural and current affair
>references. There are two reasons why these were a bad idea.
>
>1. Cultural references are only any good when used in a culture where they
>are recognised. One line, for example, in the episode "Wally Llama" comes
>to mind:-
>
> Yakko: "...as bad as sweating to the oldies."
> Dot: "But not as annoying."
Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
>
>I can possibly guess what that means, but I don't know for sure. That
>means that any comedy value is lost on me. That may not matter where the
>show is shown in the US where the reference is possibly going to make
>sense but, elsewhere, it simply becomes a waste of a line. There are many
>examples in the series where this happens.
>
>2. Current Affair gags are only any good where the affair in question is
>reasonably current, or the audience at least remembers the affair in
>question. The earlier (and more often played) title sequence itself will
>eventually become an anachronism.
>
> "Bill Clinton plays the sax?" ask the kiddies of the future.
> "Who's Bill Clinton?"
> "He was a sexually promiscuous US president in the late 20th
> century," you might reply.
> "So what's funny about that?"
>
>This is the reason why political and celebrity satire has a limited
>lifespan. Even where we remember people like Clinton or any of the other
>characters that the Animaniacs parodied, the joke soon becomes stale. Just
>look at the oft-played Looney Tunes. They parodied many characters of
>their day, and this was funny at the time. However these make little sense
>to the current generation because they don't remember Groucho Marx, Bing
>Crosby or WC Fields or any of the other lampoons. So it was with them, so
>it will be with Yakko, Wakko and Dot.
>
Those are good points. I remember watching a lot of the old classic "Looney
Tunes" on Saturday Morning Television for years as a kid, often under the "Bugs
Bunny and Road Runner Show" braodcast package. While their slapstick was to me
either riotously funny or just ammusing, I remember that there were times where
Bugs, Elmer, Daffy, somewhere in the animation, ect., would made some reference
to something that drew a blank to my mind, which turned out to be a reference
to some politicial/social/pop culture reference that took place long before I
was ever born, but used to timely during the shorts' inital release. Which can
be a bad thing, I can understand. The fact that the Looney Tunes are somewhat
outdated may be the reason why the characters aren't quite as sharp in recent
decades, especailly when Warner Bros. tried to reintroduce them via their
live-action/animated movies more recently. Likewise, "Animaniacs", which was
kind of the Looney Tunes of my generation, may not be quite as funny as to the
kids and teenagers of, say, 2040 or so.
Another problem would be when the Looney Tunes, Tiny Toons and Animaniacs are
shown in other countries and no one there, not even the adults, might
understand the American cultural jokes. That thought just popped up in my head
right now, that's all.
Contrast this to the animated shorts and feature films of Walt Disney. They
were made long before I was ever born, like Looney Tunes. But Disney rarely
made any pop culture refences in his cartoons, and their was no political
preachings, jokes or satire in them either. This henceforth allowed the Walt
classics to age more gracefully and to be more enjoyed easily generation after
generation after generation than the WB pop culture/social comedy.
Chika
> I wrote --
> >> Well, I still liked the show. Perhaps not quite up to snuff as the
> >> original "Looney Tunes", but better than "Tiny Toons". It had some
> >> amusingly silly moments when it was on Fox. And Maranda Mina was the
> >> first of the sexiest animated characters ever on television,
> >
> >Who?
> Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk white-furred anthro-animal with
> blond hair.
I though she was called Minerva Mink. ?
> >> followed by Rouge the Bat on "Sonic X" and, to some extent Renamon
> >> from "Digimon Tamers." ^_^
> >
> >I preferred Lilimon from the earlier series.
> Never saw the earlier series. anywhere on the web where I could see
> pictures of Lilimon?
http://digitalmonsters.free.fr/images/saison_un/digimon/lillymon.gif
That's one that I found, though there does appear to be some difference of
opinion on name spelling!
> >They even tried to parody it in one episode of Pepper Ann but ended up
> >turning that into a morality play (oh, if only I had watched the end of
> >the show! If only I hadn't tried to use cartoons as a basis for real
> >life decisions and so on). Indeed they have set themselves up for
> >parody themselves, for example in many of the South Park episodes.
> Doesn't Eisner's Disney seems to have trouble with heavy self-parody or
> pop-culture jokes lately? ("Hercules", "Home on the Range")
Yes, but I get the feeling that this has a lot to do with the "brain
drain" from Disney following the handling of staff, closure of facilities
and so forth. The talent is leaking heavily into rival companies and
alternative employ.
> > Yakko: "...as bad as sweating to the oldies." Dot: "But not
> > as annoying."
> Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
Exactly. I never heard of him. Hence my problem, and hence the difficulty
in exporting such comedy. I've heard US viewers griping about the heavy
cultural references in Urusei Yatsura, yet at least that comes with liner
notes (at least the old AnimEigo and Anime Projects releases always did).
Even then, an explanation doesn't always mean that you get a laugh.
It's a bit like one scene in a Dangermouse cartoon where the statue of
Eros was brought to life. In the original version, he shot three arrows
and a voice was heard to cry "ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY!" which was a
reference to a certain darts referee heard often on British television at
the time. Later versions of that same scene don't do that, instead
Greenback and Stilletto talk over the top. ISTR that was done for the
export market.
> Contrast this to the animated shorts and feature films of Walt Disney.
> They were made long before I was ever born, like Looney Tunes. But
> Disney rarely made any pop culture refences in his cartoons, and their
> was no political preachings, jokes or satire in them either. This
> henceforth allowed the Walt classics to age more gracefully and to be
> more enjoyed easily generation after generation after generation than
> the WB pop culture/social comedy.
True. It didn't just apply to Disney though, as a number of other
companies concentrated on developing their characters and the stories in
their own right rather than rely on satire. I sometimes think that Looney
Tunes has only survived as a pop icon because the various TV stations have
thrust them down our throats so often, and they have often overlooked
classics in the process. Some folk don't even realise that there was more
to Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes than Bugs, Daffy, Porky and company. Not
forgetting MGM, Fleischer/Famous, Van Beuren and others.
> >... (beep) Help, I've fallen and can't reach the beer.
Trust Miyuki to find yet another obscure reference! I only know this from
various parodies including Weird Al Yankovic's "Can't Watch This" and...
yes... Dot Warner! :)
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// Guess what? Google *doesn't* own Usenet! Boycott Google now!
... We laughed, we sang, we danced far into the night.
DishRoom1
Chika wrote --
>>To an extent, yes. It always struck me that they
>>were trying to do a similar comedy style to the
>>gags in Airplane/Police Squad whilst still trying to
>>use the old forms, lampooning them at times.
>
>That's how I looked at it.
I remember it as well. Though I liked the "
Airplane!" style of satire when I was growing up into adolensence, which was
why I was sold on "Animaniacs."
>
>>Methinks that is one of many problems that Disney
>>have had over the last decade or so. They see
>>themselves, at least as far as these TV shows go,
>>as some sort of moral teacher rather than a pure
>>entertainer, which has led to a number of poorly
>>thought out shows and the infamous stock plot
>>(see the many comments in the Weekenders
>>thread that ran here for a number of months, if you
>>can stand to do it!)
>
>This is probably why I didn't pay much attention to any of those shows
>at all!
Me neither. Though I got to see a few episodes of the "Lilo and Stitch"
television show and was disappointed that it could not live up
shoulder-to-shoulder with to the original Chris Sanders movie. Just more of the
same uncreative, low budget deadness and the Fat-Albert type morality plays
that still works on in Walt Disney Television Animation since "Gumi Bears",
"Ducktales" and the Disney Afternoon shows.
>
>>They even tried to parody it in one episode of
>>Pepper Ann but ended up turning that into a
>>morality play (oh, if only I had watched the end of
>>the show! If only I hadn't tried to use cartoons as a
>>basis for real life decisions and so on).
>
>Amusing I didn't see that, though I haven't watched much Saturday
>Morning by that point in time.
(Joke)Ironically, ther would be times where I would think "Oh, it's my own
fault that I wasted my time watching the bad Disney shows. If only if I had
gone to rent some tapes, this wouldn't be happening". LOL!! :-)))
>
>>Indeed they have set themselves up for parody
>>themselves, for example in many of the South Park
>>episodes.
>
>The "You Know, I've Learned Something Today" schtick does get old fast.
Yet it doesn't stop many kids' TV shows, Disney or non-Disney alike, to do it
to this very day.
>
>>Getting back to the subject at hand, however,
>>Animaniacs is not the best cartoon ever made, but
>>it does have its moments, and does even approach
>>classic status in places. My biggest gripe, as some
>>may remember me saying before, is that they use
>>a lot of character, cultural and current affair
>>references. There are two reasons why these were
>>a bad idea.
>
>Now I can understand why.
>
>>1. Cultural references are only any good when
>>used in a culture where they are recognised. One
>>line, for example, in the episode "Wally Llama"
>>comes to mind:-
>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Yakko: "...as bad as
>sweating to the
>>oldies."
>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Dot: =A0 "But not as annoying."
>>I can possibly guess what that means, but I don't
>>know for sure.
>
>Well if you must, "Sweatin' to the Oldies" was a series of videos, audio
>cassettes and other materials devised by Richard Simmons in the hopes
>that a middle-aged class of obese Americans would love doing aerobic
>workouts to tunes of the '50s, '60s and such. My mom bought me one of
>his products, yet I STILL haven't bothered using it!
>
>>That means that any comedy value is lost on me.
>>That may not matter where the show is shown in
>>the US where the reference is possibly going to
>>make sense but, elsewhere, it simply becomes a
>>waste of a line. There are many examples in the
>>series where this happens.
>
>Though it has been a common ideal that had been done before by WB in
>those toons of old. Most kids these days wouldn't understand what
>Yosemite Sam meant by "You noticed I didn't say Richard!" in
>"High-Diving Hare". This was a reference to a popular "race record"
>from the 1940s that I have a copy of a cover on 78rpm.
>
>>2. Current Affair gags are only any good where the
>>affair in question is reasonably current, or the
>>audience at least remembers the affair in question.
>>The earlier (and more often played) title sequence
>>itself will eventually become an anachronism.
>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0"Bill Clinton plays the
>sax?" ask the
>>kiddies of the future. =A0 =A0 "Who's Bill Clinton?"
>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0"He was a sexually
>promiscuous US
>>president in the late 20th =A0 =A0 century," you might
>>reply.
>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0"So what's funny about
>that?"
>
>Heh, yet at the time, the only problem he had was Whitewater, but he
>could play the saxophone anyway!
I never did like much the Clinton White House, but since this is an animation
newsgroup, not a political one, (plus I don't want to get into fights like I
sadly did in alt.fan.furry recently) let's move on....
Yeah, it would be understandable that many decades from now, many children may
not get the Clinton jokes unless they heavily schooled in American history.
>
>>This is the reason why political and celebrity satire
>>has a limited lifespan. Even where we remember
>>people like Clinton or any of the other characters
>>that the Animaniacs parodied, the joke soon
>>becomes stale. Just look at the oft-played Looney
>>Tunes. They parodied many characters of their
>>day, and this was funny at the time. However
>>these make little sense to the current generation
>>because they don't remember Groucho Marx, Bing
>>Crosby or WC Fields or any of the other lampoons.
>>So it was with them, so it will be with Yakko,
>>Wakko and Dot.
>
>Which is why it's been a questionable concern by those in the animation
>community over the topical nature of those classic cartoons, and why
>characters like Bugs Bunny may not hold up well for later generations of
>viewers because of their dated status and the material they have been
>in.
>
As in an earlier post, it's in contrast to Disney characters like MIckey Mouse,
who are timeless due to not surrounding themselves with any political/social
jokes.
John Shughart
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>Chika wrote --
>Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk
>white-furred anthro-animal with blond hair.
Oh yeah! She was hot!
>Agreed. And all of this is contrary to the
>entertainment values Walt Disney set up decades
>past. Disney was more of an entertainer who
>would push the art of cartoon animation very far.
>He envision that his knack of cartooning was to be
>aimed to both real children and the inner child of
>adult people, and he and his animators set a high
>standard in creativity in both story and animation.
What it should've been.
>Michael Eisner's only experience with animation
>was being the head of ABC, where he would
>screen and greenlighted the sub-standard works of
>Hanna-Barberra, Filmation and the like. When he
>was carried over to head Disney, he brought along
>the idea that Disney should create low-budget
>animation with no thought of creativity, and that
>the animation should be outsourced to studios
>outside the US -- much like the producers of
>Saturday Morning television would. But Roy E.
>Disney wouldn't let him do this directly to Feature
>Animation, nor let him nor Jeff Katzenberg shut the
>Feature animation staff down. But Eisner and
>Katzenberg still snuck around R. Disney and
>founded Walt Disney Television Animation. And so
>Eisner's Hanna-Barberra-ish bastardzations on
>Disney was born here with "Gummi
>Bears","DuckTales", ect.
>More of this can be explained the main page of the
>SaveDisney.com website in the 10-part article by
>"Merlin Jones", "The Rise and Fall of Feature
>Animation."
Somehow I never thought of it that way.
>> Yakko: "...as bad as
sweating to the
>>oldies."
>> Dot: "But not as annoying."
>Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
Hahahahaha! Surprised he's still around too and still plugging that
crap somewhere.
>Those are good points. I remember watching a lot
>of the old classic "Looney Tunes" on Saturday
>Morning Television for years as a kid, often under
>the "Bugs Bunny and Road Runner Show"
>braodcast package.
Just like me!
>While their slapstick was to me either riotously
>funny or just ammusing, I remember that there
>were times where Bugs, Elmer, Daffy, somewhere
>in the animation, ect., would made some reference
>to something that drew a blank to my mind, which
>turned out to be a reference to some
>politicial/social/pop culture reference that took
>place long before I was ever born, but used to
>timely during the shorts' inital release. Which can
>be a bad thing, I can understand.
That's how it felt to me too. I more or less noticed the way things
looked in those cartoons and noticed it wasn't like that anymore, like
milkman doing milk deliveries, or people actually shopping downtown and
other things that I couldn't see in a 1980s world (and in a declining
American city that was a leader of the Industrial Revolution). At least
I knew how to "dial" a phone then!
>The fact that the Looney Tunes are somewhat
>outdated may be the reason why the characters
>aren't quite as sharp in recent decades, especailly
>when Warner Bros. tried to reintroduce them via
>their live-action/animated movies more recently.
I know what you mean by that.
>Likewise, "Animaniacs", which was kind of the
>Looney Tunes of my generation, may not be quite
>as funny as to the kids and teenagers of, say,
>2040 or so.
Perhaps it would be like the joke in "One Froggy Evening" and it's
Michigan J. Frog popping out in the mid 21st Century and doing "Ragtime
Gal". Can't say if any of those tunes will still be heard anywhere by
that time.
Especially the "Race Record" hits of those days that people with record
collections would understand fully as long as they're able to play those
78's in their players.
>Another problem would be when the Looney
>Tunes, Tiny Toons and Animaniacs are shown in
>other countries and no one there, not even the
>adults, might understand the American cultural
>jokes. That thought just popped up in my head
>right now, that's all.
Me too. Everytime I watch "The Wild Wife", I keep getting the thought
that people elsewhere would never understand what it was like in the
days when American women didn't have decent jobs, were mostly homemakers
and did have those crummy problems that affected their days.
>Contrast this to the animated shorts and feature
>films of Walt Disney. They were made long before
>I was ever born, like Looney Tunes. But Disney
>rarely made any pop culture refences in his
>cartoons, and their was no political preachings,
>jokes or satire in them either. This henceforth
>allowed the Walt classics to age more gracefully
>and to be more enjoyed easily generation after
>generation after generation than the WB pop
>culture/social comedy.
That's quite true. Still, there are thoese elements in their toons that
still allude to the days when people did listen to the radio for their
entertainment besides news and sports! I always enjoyed watching ones
like "Chef Donald" and watching him make a waffle while listening to a
lady playing an organ and giving off the recipe on the radio. By the
'50s, this would change once TV came around and it becomes even more
obvious.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>In article
><20041003175320...@mb-m28.aol.>com>, DishRoom1
<dish...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk
>>white-furred anthro-animal with blond hair.
>I though she was called Minerva Mink. ?
I thought so too.
>>Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
>Exactly. I never heard of him. Hence my problem,
>and hence the difficulty in exporting such comedy.
Still, it's a godsend that none of Simmons' products and services has
yet to reach you guys. You don't wanna know the torture he has to
offer! He's been spoofed in a few other places. I think an episode of
The Simpsons made a job of a robotic Richard Simmons that attacks Homer
somehow. Actually this was seen in some "outtakes" part of the "138th
Episode Spectaular" episode.
>I've heard US viewers griping about the heavy
>cultural references in Urusei Yatsura, yet at least
>that comes with liner notes (at least the old
>AnimEigo and Anime Projects releases always
>did). Even then, an explanation doesn't always
>mean that you get a laugh.
At least know knowledge of Japanese culture as well as in TV and movies
has been improved through time. Now I can watch Urusei Yatsura without
having to wonder! Its like I'm already there!
On a simular note, one episode of UY, the very first or second episode,
made use of an apperance of a one-shot figure that walks into the screen
that looked too closely to that of Jim Carrey's "Ace Ventura" character,
but this episode would be aired way back in 1981, wich pre-dates the Jim
Carrey movie by a little over a decade. That STILL impresses a friend
of mine!
>It's a bit like one scene in a Dangermouse cartoon
>where the statue of Eros was brought to life. In the
>original version, he shot three arrows and a voice
>was heard to cry "ONE HUNDRED AND
>EIGHTY!" which was a reference to a certain darts
>referee heard often on British television at the
>time. Later versions of that same scene don't do
>that, instead Greenback and Stilletto talk over the
>top. ISTR that was done for the export market.
That's cute! Thanks for that info.
>True. It didn't just apply to Disney though, as a
>number of other companies concentrated on
>developing their characters and the stories in their
>own right rather than rely on satire. I sometimes
>think that Looney Tunes has only survived as a
>pop icon because the various TV stations have
>thrust them down our throats so often, and they
>have often overlooked classics in the process.
I felt the same way too.
>Some folk don't even realise that there was more
>to Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes than Bugs,
>Daffy, Porky and company. Not forgetting MGM,
>Fleischer/Famous, Van Beuren and others.
Pretty much what I was deprived of much in my youth. Nowadays I have
much of this on tapes or discs now, so I'm more aware of this than ever.
Chika
Sobieniak <chrism...@webtv.net> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2004, 11:50pm (EDT+5), miy...@spam-no-way.invalid (Chika)
> wrote:
> Still, it's a godsend that none of Simmons' products and services has
> yet to reach you guys. You don't wanna know the torture he has to
> offer! He's been spoofed in a few other places. I think an episode of
> The Simpsons made a job of a robotic Richard Simmons that attacks Homer
> somehow. Actually this was seen in some "outtakes" part of the "138th
> Episode Spectaular" episode.
If it is what I think it is, he would have been fighting an uphill battle
with a lot of folk over here that did similar products. The 80's aerobic
craze spawned a lot of exercise videos over here, most of which are pretty
dire. It seemed, at one point, to be something that all ageing TV stars
had to do before their careers completely keeled over, probably to keep
them from complete obscurity. Not that it worked, of course.
> On a simular note, one episode of UY, the very first or second episode,
> made use of an apperance of a one-shot figure that walks into the screen
> that looked too closely to that of Jim Carrey's "Ace Ventura" character,
> but this episode would be aired way back in 1981, wich pre-dates the Jim
> Carrey movie by a little over a decade. That STILL impresses a friend
> of mine!
Carrey is hardly an original!
> >Some folk don't even realise that there was more to Merrie
> >Melodies/Looney Tunes than Bugs, Daffy, Porky and company. Not
> >forgetting MGM, Fleischer/Famous, Van Beuren and others.
> Pretty much what I was deprived of much in my youth. Nowadays I have
> much of this on tapes or discs now, so I'm more aware of this than ever.
I missed out on a lot myself, which is why I take such an interest now in
the older cartoons from WB's early days as well as the other studios
rather than the MM/LT and T&J cartoons that have been played repeatedly
for years on the various networks.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// Guess what? Google *doesn't* own Usenet! Boycott Google now!
... A feature is a bug with seniority.
Steve Carras
> Chris Sobieniak wrote --
>
> Chika wrote --
>
> >>To an extent, yes. It always struck me that they
> >>were trying to do a similar comedy style to the
> >>gags in Airplane/Police Squad whilst still trying to
> >>use the old forms, lampooning them at times.
> >
> >That's how I looked at it.
>
> I remember it as well. Though I liked the "
> Airplane!" style of satire when I was growing up into adolensence, which was
> why I was sold on "Animaniacs."
> >
(Tex Travelogues and Daffy Detective spoofs,i.e.McKimson's SUPER
SNOOPER) had quite a lot of that (Daffy's bad "case" as a detective..a
case of bottles!!)
And Disney's great 1950 GOOFY short MOTOR MANIA too,with that part
where narrator John McLeish()?) refers to a road hog CUES THE GOOF
TURNING INTO A PIG...:)
Gotta hand it to those writers..IARPL<ANE! and the equally enjoyable
and successful NAKEN GUD reminded me of the old cartoons (Tex's 1951
SYMPHONY IN SLANG, where narrator/WB-MGM voice John Brown as the
"hepster" type in St.Peter's domain says stuff like puttin' on the
dog, and "has the cat got your tongue" and then [respectively] we're
treated to his gal putting a canine around her neck like a fur and in
a running gag a cat holdingh someones' tongue whilst winking!!)
BTW It's 5 AM over here problay the EARLIEST in the day that I have
ever typed a response, just woke up a while but that is off topic..:)
Steve Carras
>
> Chika wrote --
>
> >>To an extent, yes. It always struck me that they
> >>were trying to do a similar comedy style to the
> >>gags in Airplane/Police Squad whilst still trying to
> >>use the old forms, lampooning them at times.
> >
> >That's how I looked at it.
>
> I remember it as well. Though I liked the "
> Airplane!" style of satire when I was growing up into adolensence, which was
mine as well and some ANIMX episodes did it well, but then the great
old shorts (esp.since visuals were always important for AIRPLANE
humor)..used it (The TEx Travelogues & Daffy Dectectives--recall
McKImson's 1951 THE SUPER SNOOPER where the Duck after a criminal case
is getting rid of said casee at film's open--and it's a case of
bottles..?)
Then there is Tex's 1951 SYMPHONY IN SLANG where the (MGM/WB vet) John
Brown-voiced "hepster" tells of,a moing others with appropriate
"depictions" putting on the dog and the cat having someone's
tonuge--respectively: a canine draped like a fur aorund our hero's
gal's neck and a feline holding a tongue.
Then there's Disney's 1950 Jack Kinney MOTOR MANIA where the narrator
(John Ployard MacLesih?) is talking about a "road hog" and we see
immeditaately that: THE GOOF';s TURNED INTO A HOG.
Bing Crosby has been dated in the passga eof time though Sinatra, Kate
Hepburn (who lived and was prominent till last year) are still
cultural heroes to college, if not younger, kids, but due to their
"ahead of its time" proto tabloid behavior, more than their filsm or
ties to the past.
Bugs himself could be popular with younger audienceds,and problay is,
but the media never likes to report on it (not hip, kids who like
older stuff from the 509s before ain't "rebels"<yada yada)..of course
the more hipper stars whom the media fawn over will TRASH the same
media (that includes quite alot of stars going back to the
forties..the love-hate relationshipbetween Hollywood and the media, a
term oft-used by the government to MEAN Hollywood..but bakc on topic)
Being dated ain't a bad thing..but if you're (and I stand guilty on
this as charged) reluctant to be bonding with younger folks (something
that, animation wise I admit to being guilkty of though I like J.Lo
and Nelly Furtdo music of today) then it;'s a no go trying to get
younger folks to bond with you.
Just look at Bing (whom I'm listneting to with great pleasure)--he was
consdiered dated and his views on children,esp,.girls,that they
shiould be OZZIE & HARRIET, cost him a counterculture popularity (on
other hand, parties like Frankie S. and Billy Holiday,whom Diana Ross
did that flick about, in the late 60s eere just starting to be
accepted as hip, read rebellious)./
Elvis, Katharine Hepburn 9debatably..), and Billie Holiday--dated?
Hardly (at least to most younger folks).
But AUdrey Hepburn, Jimmy Durante, Crosby,W.C., naaah, not
historically proto-tabloid enough tough for tiem there the Marx's DID
enjoy a certain resurgence, as Jim Korkis and JohN Cawley in 1991
observed (CARTOON SUPERSTARS: BETTY BOOP, expolaining the Boopstress's
beginning of her modern popularity that she ahs enjoyed for 35
years..)
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>> Chika wrote --
>
>> I wrote --
>
>> >> Well, I still liked the show. Perhaps not quite up to snuff as the
>> >> original "Looney Tunes", but better than "Tiny Toons". It had some
>> >> amusingly silly moments when it was on Fox. And Maranda Mina was the
>> >> first of the sexiest animated characters ever on television,
>> >
>> >Who?
>
>> Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk white-furred anthro-animal with
>> blond hair.
>
>I though she was called Minerva Mink. ?
O_O Oh, right. It was Minerva Mink! Sorry, I got the name wrong! a long time
has past. It's been a decade sine I was the show and haven't discussed awhole
lot about it since. (blushes in dire embarrassment = -_- = )
>
>> >> followed by Rouge the Bat on "Sonic X" and, to some extent Renamon
>> >> from "Digimon Tamers." ^_^
>> >
>> >I preferred Lilimon from the earlier series.
>
>> Never saw the earlier series. anywhere on the web where I could see
>> pictures of Lilimon?
>
>http://digitalmonsters.free.fr/images/saison_un/digimon/lillymon.gif
>
>That's one that I found, though there does appear to be some difference of
>opinion on name spelling!
OK, Thank you. :-)
>
>> >They even tried to parody it in one episode of Pepper Ann but ended up
>> >turning that into a morality play (oh, if only I had watched the end of
>> >the show! If only I hadn't tried to use cartoons as a basis for real
>> >life decisions and so on). Indeed they have set themselves up for
>> >parody themselves, for example in many of the South Park episodes.
>
>> Doesn't Eisner's Disney seems to have trouble with heavy self-parody or
>> pop-culture jokes lately? ("Hercules", "Home on the Range")
>
>Yes, but I get the feeling that this has a lot to do with the "brain
>drain" from Disney following the handling of staff, closure of facilities
>and so forth. The talent is leaking heavily into rival companies and
>alternative employ.
And how.
>
>> > Yakko: "...as bad as sweating to the oldies." Dot: "But not
>> > as annoying."
>
>> Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
>
>Exactly. I never heard of him. Hence my problem, and hence the difficulty
>in exporting such comedy.
Ah, of course.You're in Britian, as I recall. Well, likewise, my mother and I
have seen British comedies prodcast of here in America via PBS (Public
Broadcasting Service) and sometimes I don't understand some of the jokes.
I've heard US viewers griping about the heavy
>cultural references in Urusei Yatsura, yet at least that comes with liner
>notes (at least the old AnimEigo and Anime Projects releases always did).
>Even then, an explanation doesn't always mean that you get a laugh.
*Nods* Although, you know what the funny thing is? I once was able to watch a
lot of "Monty Python's Flying Circus" on public television, and I laughed out
loud over it --even when I didn't understand some of the jokes. This never
happened to me with some of the other British sitcoms.
>
>It's a bit like one scene in a Dangermouse cartoon where the statue of
>Eros was brought to life. In the original version, he shot three arrows
>and a voice was heard to cry "ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY!" which was a
>reference to a certain darts referee heard often on British television at
>the time.
LOL!!
Later versions of that same scene don't do that, instead
>Greenback and Stilletto talk over the top. ISTR that was done for the
>export market.
I see. :-)
>
>> Contrast this to the animated shorts and feature films of Walt Disney.
>> They were made long before I was ever born, like Looney Tunes. But
>> Disney rarely made any pop culture refences in his cartoons, and their
>> was no political preachings, jokes or satire in them either. This
>> henceforth allowed the Walt classics to age more gracefully and to be
>> more enjoyed easily generation after generation after generation than
>> the WB pop culture/social comedy.
>
>True. It didn't just apply to Disney though, as a number of other
>companies concentrated on developing their characters and the stories in
>their own right rather than rely on satire. I sometimes think that Looney
>Tunes has only survived as a pop icon because the various TV stations have
>thrust them down our throats so often, and they have often overlooked
>classics in the process. Some folk don't even realise that there was more
>to Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes than Bugs, Daffy, Porky and company. Not
>forgetting MGM, Fleischer/Famous, Van Beuren and others.
I would like to see those old "lost" cartoons.
>
>> >... (beep) Help, I've fallen and can't reach the beer.
>
>Trust Miyuki to find yet another obscure reference! I only know this from
>various parodies including Weird Al Yankovic's "Can't Watch This" and...
>yes... Dot Warner! :)
>
:-)
John Shughart
DishRoom1
Chika wrote --
I wrote --
>>>Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk
>>>white-furred anthro-animal with blond hair.
>>I though she was called Minerva Mink. ?
>
>I thought so too.
Sorry. =-_-= I got Minerva's name wrong.
>
>>>Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
>>Exactly. I never heard of him. Hence my problem,
>>and hence the difficulty in exporting such comedy.
>
>Still, it's a godsend that none of Simmons' products and services has
>yet to reach you guys. You don't wanna know the torture he has to
>offer! He's been spoofed in a few other places. I think an episode of
>The Simpsons made a job of a robotic Richard Simmons that attacks Homer
>somehow. Actually this was seen in some "outtakes" part of the "138th
>Episode Spectaular" episode.
LOL!!
>
>>I've heard US viewers griping about the heavy
>>cultural references in Urusei Yatsura, yet at least
>>that comes with liner notes (at least the old
>>AnimEigo and Anime Projects releases always
>>did). Even then, an explanation doesn't always
>>mean that you get a laugh.
>
>At least know knowledge of Japanese culture as well as in TV and movies
>has been improved through time. Now I can watch Urusei Yatsura without
>having to wonder! Its like I'm already there!
The "Execl Saga" DVDs have cultural joke references in their menus.
>
>On a simular note, one episode of UY, the very first or second episode,
>made use of an apperance of a one-shot figure that walks into the screen
>that looked too closely to that of Jim Carrey's "Ace Ventura" character,
>but this episode would be aired way back in 1981, wich pre-dates the Jim
>Carrey movie by a little over a decade. That STILL impresses a friend
>of mine!
That's so odd.
>
>>It's a bit like one scene in a Dangermouse cartoon
>>where the statue of Eros was brought to life. In the
>>original version, he shot three arrows and a voice
>>was heard to cry "ONE HUNDRED AND
>>EIGHTY!" which was a reference to a certain darts
>>referee heard often on British television at the
>>time. Later versions of that same scene don't do
>>that, instead Greenback and Stilletto talk over the
>>top. ISTR that was done for the export market.
>
>That's cute! Thanks for that info.
>
>>True. It didn't just apply to Disney though, as a
>>number of other companies concentrated on
>>developing their characters and the stories in their
>>own right rather than rely on satire. I sometimes
>>think that Looney Tunes has only survived as a
>>pop icon because the various TV stations have
>>thrust them down our throats so often, and they
>>have often overlooked classics in the process.
>
>I felt the same way too.
Ditto.
>
>>Some folk don't even realise that there was more
>>to Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes than Bugs,
>>Daffy, Porky and company. Not forgetting MGM,
>>Fleischer/Famous, Van Beuren and others.
>
>Pretty much what I was deprived of much in my youth. Nowadays I have
>much of this on tapes or discs now, so I'm more aware of this than ever.
>
I'd also wnat to see even rarer treasures of animation past, such as the
turn-of-the-century films of French artist Emile Cohl, "Humourous Phases of
Funny Faces" by J. Blackton (sp), the early Felix the Cat, early Fleischer
Bros., ect. I already have the short animations of Winsor McKay, which include
the famous "Gurtie the Dinosaur" that pioneered the future of animation.
John Shughart
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>>Chika wrote --
>>>Who?
>>Miranda Mink. You know, she's this talk
>>white-furred anthro-animal with blond hair.
>
>Oh yeah! She was hot!
So hot I forgot that her actual name is Minerva =^_^=
That's what I read on Savedisney's "The rise and Fall of Feature Animation".
Roy was described as being always concerned about the tradtitions of the Disney
company that his father and more famous uncle left behind. Back when they had
Frank Wells with Katzenberg and Eisner, Well and R. Disney had often stood in
between coperate Disney and and the public Disney, which included animation.
>
>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Yakko: "...as bad as
>sweating to the
>>>oldies."
>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Dot: =A0 "But not as annoying."
>>Yeah, That's Richard Simmons.
>
>Hahahahaha! Surprised he's still around too and still plugging that
>crap somewhere.
The last I ever saw of him was his apperance in the now-canceled, most recent
version of "Hollywood Squares", and any news I've read of him was that he was
caught assulting someone or something like that.
>
>>Those are good points. I remember watching a lot
>>of the old classic "Looney Tunes" on Saturday
>>Morning Television for years as a kid, often under
>>the "Bugs Bunny and Road Runner Show"
>>braodcast package.
>
>Just like me!
Beep Beep.
>
>>While their slapstick was to me either riotously
>>funny or just ammusing, I remember that there
>>were times where Bugs, Elmer, Daffy, somewhere
>>in the animation, ect., would made some reference
>>to something that drew a blank to my mind, which
>>turned out to be a reference to some
>>politicial/social/pop culture reference that took
>>place long before I was ever born, but used to
>>timely during the shorts' inital release. Which can
>>be a bad thing, I can understand.
>
>That's how it felt to me too. I more or less noticed the way things
>looked in those cartoons and noticed it wasn't like that anymore, like
>milkman doing milk deliveries, or people actually shopping downtown and
>other things that I couldn't see in a 1980s world (and in a declining
>American city that was a leader of the Industrial Revolution). At least
>I knew how to "dial" a phone then!
Rotary phone were still around when I was a kid as well. We used to have one
phone around the whole house as I was younger, and it was a rotary phone. then
by the 1990s as so on, they were phased out by those touch-button phones Now
our home got ride of the old rotary and now has 3 house button phones and three
cell phones.
>
>>The fact that the Looney Tunes are somewhat
>>outdated may be the reason why the characters
>>aren't quite as sharp in recent decades, especailly
>>when Warner Bros. tried to reintroduce them via
>>their live-action/animated movies more recently.
>
>I know what you mean by that.
Especally "Space Jam". They seem lost when they surround themselves around
Michael Jordan and forming a rad basketball team, who obviously wasn't part of
their world in their classic shorts of 60-40 years past.
>
>>Likewise, "Animaniacs", which was kind of the
>>Looney Tunes of my generation, may not be quite
>>as funny as to the kids and teenagers of, say,
>>2040 or so.
>
>Perhaps it would be like the joke in "One Froggy Evening" and it's
>Michigan J. Frog popping out in the mid 21st Century and doing "Ragtime
>Gal". Can't say if any of those tunes will still be heard anywhere by
>that time.
Hee, I loved that end of the frog cartoon. Priceless! :-)
heh, ought to see "Chef Donald."
Yeah, in that since Disney, MGM, and the Fleischers were like the WB animations
that they reflected the sort of technologies commons of the era the films were
produced, frozen in time like fossils in amber. Like that milkman you alluded
to above, it would seem rather foriegn to kids would are more familar with
grocery stores and Wal*Mat to get milk. Or that to play recorded music in the
old days meant sticking a black vinyl disc on a big turntable and place a
stylus on it. Or a world void of DVDs or even videotapes. Still, it's nothing
like: "Hey, she's as cold quiet as Silent Cal" or something like that that only
the WB looneytunes would only do.
John Shughart
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>In article
>If it is what I think it is, he would have been
>fighting an uphill battle with a lot of folk over here
>that did similar products. The 80's aerobic craze
>spawned a lot of exercise videos over here, most
>of which are pretty dire.
I actually used to watch one of those tapes myself back then too!
>It seemed, at one point, to be something that all
>ageing TV stars had to do before their careers
>completely keeled over, probably to keep them
>from complete obscurity. Not that it worked, of
>course.
I thought it was nuts when it was people like O.J. Simpsons and Regis
Philbin putting out tapes of their own as well.
>I missed out on a lot myself, which is why I take
>such an interest now in the older cartoons from
>WB's early days as well as the other studios rather
>than the MM/LT and T&J cartoons that have been
>played repeatedly for years on the various
>networks.
>--
> //\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx.
You should look into the works of the Columbia Pictures' "Screen Gems"
studios of the 1930s and '40s. A lot of that stuff is hard to find
these days, especially under the hands of Sony that seems to not be
bother to know they even have a collection of cartoons in their vaults
(as well as with UPA material from the '50s).
Chika
Chris Sobieniak <chrism...@webtv.net> wrote:
> You should look into the works of the Columbia Pictures' "Screen Gems"
> studios of the 1930s and '40s. A lot of that stuff is hard to find
> these days, especially under the hands of Sony that seems to not be
> bother to know they even have a collection of cartoons in their vaults
> (as well as with UPA material from the '50s).
That seems strange. The UPA and Screen Gems stuff used to get played over
here, but it has been a good many years since I last saw any. I know I had
problems with some of the styling in the UPA stuff, but there were a few
that I liked back then.
It'll probably be some idiot exec at Sony America that can't be arsed to
give the vaults the once over because he's afraid to lose a little money.
Whether he *would* lose any is another matter entirely, but I think I've
mentioned before that this sort of corporate idiot fears risk almost as
much as losing money.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// Guess what? Google *doesn't* own Usenet! Boycott Google now!
... Hi! I'm a tagline virus! Steal me & join in the fun!
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>*Nods* Although, you know what the funny thing
>is? I once was able to watch a lot of "Monty
>Python's Flying Circus" on public television, and I
>laughed out loud over it --even when I didn't
>understand some of the jokes. This never
>happened to me with some of the other British
>sitcoms.
I felt the same way too. On a simular note, a PBS station in San Jose,
California at one point used to play Urusei Yatsura a few years back.
Too bad that didn't became a common program that other PBS stations
could pick up alongside reruns of Monty Python. It would've made for a
great Saturday night of programming alongside SNL, and perhaps syndie
reruns of Benny Hill and Rocky & Bullwinkle on other channels 10-20
years ago.
>>True. It didn't just apply to Disney though, as a
>>number of other companies concentrated on
>>developing their characters and the stories in
>>their own right rather than rely on satire. I
>>sometimes think that Looney Tunes has only
>>survived as a pop icon because the various TV
>>stations have thrust them down our throats so
>>often, and they have often overlooked classics in
>>the process. Some folk don't even realise that
>>there was more to Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes
>>than Bugs, Daffy, Porky and company. Not
>>forgetting MGM, Fleischer/Famous, Van Beuren
>>and others.
>I would like to see those old "lost" cartoons.
I get that too much on my own!
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>That's what I read on Savedisney's "The rise and
>Fall of Feature Animation". Roy was described as
>being always concerned about the tradtitions of
>the Disney company that his father and more
>famous uncle left behind. Back when they had
>Frank Wells with Katzenberg and Eisner, Well and
>R. Disney had often stood in between coperate
>Disney and and the public Disney, which included
>animation.
If I was Roy in this case, I probably would've gone nut too early trying
to keep up with the corporate bitchings.
>The last I ever saw of him was his apperance in
>the now-canceled, most recent version of
>"Hollywood Squares",
Glad that got cancelled!
>and any news I've read of him was that he was
>caught assulting someone or something like that.
Especially his appareance on Howard Stern's radio program that led to a
near fight that broke out during the broadcast I think, though this was
many years ago, but it was probably the best humiliation he ever got!
>>>Those are good points. I remember watching a
>>>lot of the old classic "Looney Tunes" on
>>>Saturday Morning Television for years as a kid,
>>>often under the "Bugs Bunny and Road Runner
>>>Show"
>>>braodcast package.
>>Just like me!
>Beep Beep.
"That coyote's really a crazy clown!
When will he learn that he can never slow him down?
Poor Little Roadrunner's never bothered anyone.
Because running down the road is his idea of having fun!
ROADRUNNER!
The coyote's after you!
ROADRUNNER
If he catches you you're through!
Poor little roadrunner's never bothered anyone.
Because running down the road is his ideal of having FUN!!!"
They DON'T make theme songs like that anymore!
>>That's how it felt to me too. I more or less noticed
>>the way things looked in those cartoons and
>>noticed it wasn't like that anymore, like milkman
>>doing milk deliveries, or people actually shopping
>>downtown and other things that I couldn't see in
>>a 1980s world (and in a declining American city
>>that was a leader of the Industrial Revolution). At
>>least I knew how to "dial" a phone then!
>Rotary phone were still around when I was a kid
>as well. We used to have one phone around the
>whole house as I was younger, and it was a rotary
>phone. then by the 1990s as so on, they were
>phased out by those touch-button phones Now our
>home got ride of the old rotary and now has 3
>house button phones and three cell phones.
Heh, for me, it seemed like touch-tone came about in the mid '80s.
Before then we had the rotary phones anyway. Used to be so common to
see that in my lifetime everywhere until buttons showed up and changed
the game.
>>I know what you mean by that.
>Especally "Space Jam". They seem lost when they
>surround themselves around Michael Jordan and
>forming a rad basketball team, who obviously
>wasn't part of their world in their classic shorts of
>60-40 years past.
Back then black people didn't even get a decent education at some
schools too, or simular treatment as whie people in most places. Kinda
funny looking abck at a time when it was like that in America.
>>Perhaps it would be like the joke in "One Froggy
>>Evening" and it's Michigan J. Frog popping out in
>>the mid 21st Century and doing "Ragtime Gal".
>>Can't say if any of those tunes will still be heard
>>anywhere by that time.
>Hee, I loved that end of the frog cartoon.
>Priceless! :-)
I wonder if we'll ever get those fishbowl-like helmets with the antenna
on top? ^_^
>heh, ought to see "Chef Donald."
It was a fun toon!
>Yeah, in that since Disney, MGM, and the
>Fleischers were like the WB animations that they
>reflected the sort of technologies commons of the
>era the films were produced, frozen in time like
>fossils in amber. Like that milkman you alluded to
>above, it would seem rather foriegn to kids would
>are more familar with grocery stores and Wal*Mat
>to get milk.
Obvious. And nothing like the days when you had those differences in
things like department stores that HAD departments, and not just clothes
and furniture (I miss the electronic sections myself). Or perhaps drug
stores that had soda shacks and people had to wash their clothes by and
and hang them out to dry, or perhaps when manual labor WAS manual labor
(before it became automatic and mechanized).
At least I think they still have milkmen delivering milk and other dairy
products in the UK.
>Or that to play recorded music in the old days
>meant sticking a black vinyl disc on a big turntable
>and place a stylus on it.
Those were SIMPLE times! I love the novelty of it.
>Or a world void of DVDs or even videotapes.
As long as people still had 8mm movie cameras to save their memories on.
>Still, it's nothing like: "Hey, she's as cold quiet as
>Silent Cal" or something like that that only the WB
>looneytunes would only do.
>John Shughart
Pretty much!
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>In article
><7067-416...@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.n>et>, Chris Sobieniak
<chrism...@webtv.net>
>wrote:
>>You should look into the works of the Columbia
>>Pictures' "Screen Gems" studios of the 1930s and
>>'40s. A lot of that stuff is hard to find these days,
>>especially under the hands of Sony that seems to
>>not be bother to know they even have a collection
>>of cartoons in their vaults (as well as with UPA
>>material from the '50s).
>That seems strange. The UPA and Screen Gems
>stuff used to get played over here, but it has been
>a good many years since I last saw any.
In the US, the Screen Gems material has pratically vanished during the
past few decades, with only the UPA library that has seen some
visibility via home video and a few TV appearances in the '80s and '90s.
The best we've got this year out of it was four UPA shorts being added
to the "Hellboy" DVD release, thanks to the director of said film who
was a fan of those toons (essentially three Gerald McBoing-Boings and
"The Tell-Tale Heart")
>I know I had problems with some of the styling in
>the UPA stuff, but there were a few that I liked
>back then.
When I was a kid, I remember watching the one based on the book
"Madeline" a number of times on TV.
>It'll probably be some idiot exec at Sony America
>that can't be arsed to give the vaults the once over
>because he's afraid to lose a little money. Whether
>he *would* lose any is another matter entirely, but
>I think I've mentioned before that this sort of
>corporate idiot fears risk almost as much as losing
>money.
>--
> //\ // Chika
Jerry Beck at one point worked on a show called something like "Totally
Tuned In" that was a syndie package of the Columbia cartoons that was
sold to some international markets, but has never been picked up in the
US. Only other blip on the radar is the appearance of some of the
cartoons being shown on a channel on the "Voom" HD service.
For more info on the Coiumbia cartoons, here's a good link to start!
http://columbia.goldenagecartoons.com/
The dormain itself is filled iwth other such pages of interest,
including one for the Walter Lantz studios whose work practically isn't
seen anymore in the US.
http://lantz.goldenagecartoons.com/
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>>That's what I read on Savedisney's "The rise and
>>Fall of Feature Animation". Roy was described as
>>being always concerned about the tradtitions of
>>the Disney company that his father and more
>>famous uncle left behind. Back when they had
>>Frank Wells with Katzenberg and Eisner, Well and
>>R. Disney had often stood in between coperate
>>Disney and and the public Disney, which included
>>animation.
>
>If I was Roy in this case, I probably would've gone nut too early trying
>to keep up with the corporate bitchings.
Same here. I wonder how he keeps his sanity admid those guys.
(about Richard Simmons)
>
>>The last I ever saw of him was his apperance in
>>the now-canceled, most recent version of
>>"Hollywood Squares",
>
>Glad that got cancelled!
Actually I lind of liked the show. Tom Bergeron was very pleasent, and I loved
the huge electronic tic-tac-toe borad they have on stage, like in the Peter
Marshall and John Davidson versions. Though I have to admit there where some
few times with some of the celebrity squares (being conservative and
Christian).
I quite believe that I never got to watch the original Peter Marshall-hosted
series, which is said among most H2 fans as being the best version of the game
show, nor the "Match Game-Hollywood Squares Hour" (although both ran when I was
a kid and watched other game shows like the original "Match Game" and "The
Price is Right".) But I saw the John Davidson one, my first full exposure to
the show.
>
>>and any news I've read of him was that he was
>>caught assulting someone or something like that.
>
>Especially his appareance on Howard Stern's radio program that led to a
>near fight that broke out during the broadcast I think, though this was
>many years ago, but it was probably the best humiliation he ever got!
Well, I can't help feel sorry for him, though. Yet I hope for the better.
>
>>>>Those are good points. I remember watching a
>>>>lot of the old classic "Looney Tunes" on
>>>>Saturday Morning Television for years as a kid,
>>>>often under the "Bugs Bunny and Road Runner
>>>>Show"
>>>>braodcast package.
>>>Just like me!
>>Beep Beep.
>
>"That coyote's really a crazy clown!
>When will he learn that he can never slow him down?
>Poor Little Roadrunner's never bothered anyone.
>Because running down the road is his idea of having fun!
>
>ROADRUNNER!
>The coyote's after you!
>ROADRUNNER
>If he catches you you're through!
>
>Poor little roadrunner's never bothered anyone.
>Because running down the road is his ideal of having FUN!!!"
>
>They DON'T make theme songs like that anymore!
Would make a great country music or hoedown bluegrass song. :-)
Hey, Chris, remember "Beep! Beep! The Road Runner?" (The Gold Key comic)
>
>>>That's how it felt to me too. I more or less noticed
>>>the way things looked in those cartoons and
>>>noticed it wasn't like that anymore, like milkman
>>>doing milk deliveries, or people actually shopping
>>>downtown and other things that I couldn't see in
>>>a 1980s world (and in a declining American city
>>>that was a leader of the Industrial Revolution). At
>>>least I knew how to "dial" a phone then!
>>Rotary phone were still around when I was a kid
>>as well. We used to have one phone around the
>>whole house as I was younger, and it was a rotary
>>phone. then by the 1990s as so on, they were
>>phased out by those touch-button phones Now our
>>home got ride of the old rotary and now has 3
>>house button phones and three cell phones.
>
>Heh, for me, it seemed like touch-tone came about in the mid '80s.
>Before then we had the rotary phones anyway. Used to be so common to
>see that in my lifetime everywhere until buttons showed up and changed
>the game.
Hmmm ;-( Well, yes come to think of it those button touch-tone phones did start
around the late 1970s and the whole 1980s, or something like that. I do recall
seeing them around as I was growning into an older little boy.
>
>>>I know what you mean by that.
>>Especally "Space Jam". They seem lost when they
>>surround themselves around Michael Jordan and
>>forming a rad basketball team, who obviously
>>wasn't part of their world in their classic shorts of
>>60-40 years past.
>
>Back then black people didn't even get a decent education at some
>schools too, or simular treatment as whie people in most places. Kinda
>funny looking abck at a time when it was like that in America.
So, in a way "Space Jam" was a kind of a milestone in Black American history
regarding Looney Tunes.
(Er, I hope I'm not offending anyone with that above quip.)
Ironically, there were stories about non-whites working in animation studios
during those years. There was even a Hispanic animator working for Walt Disney
then, despite the rumors of Walt being an alleged racist.
>
>>>Perhaps it would be like the joke in "One Froggy
>>>Evening" and it's Michigan J. Frog popping out in
>>>the mid 21st Century and doing "Ragtime Gal".
>>>Can't say if any of those tunes will still be heard
>>>anywhere by that time.
>>Hee, I loved that end of the frog cartoon.
>>Priceless! :-)
>
>I wonder if we'll ever get those fishbowl-like helmets with the antenna
>on top? ^_^
I wanna have those atomic laser-guns that could rip through concrete. :-)
And Eisner thinks animators are stupid.
>
>>heh, ought to see "Chef Donald."
>
>It was a fun toon!
Any way I could see it? I mean, with EIsner locking up those old shorts from
TV, fooling himself that the public wants Disney to show sex-ed up teenager pop
singers....
>
>>Yeah, in that since Disney, MGM, and the
>>Fleischers were like the WB animations that they
>>reflected the sort of technologies commons of the
>>era the films were produced, frozen in time like
>>fossils in amber. Like that milkman you alluded to
>>above, it would seem rather foriegn to kids would
>>are more familar with grocery stores and Wal*Mat
>>to get milk.
>
>Obvious. And nothing like the days when you had those differences in
>things like department stores that HAD departments, and not just clothes
>and furniture (I miss the electronic sections myself). Or perhaps drug
>stores that had soda shacks and people had to wash their clothes by and
>and hang them out to dry, or perhaps when manual labor WAS manual labor
>(before it became automatic and mechanized).
I remember when there were shoe stores around, like Kenny's.
>
>At least I think they still have milkmen delivering milk and other dairy
>products in the UK.
The Brits still have them? In 2004? O_O Can anyone from Britian or a British
expert here in the US verify for us.
>
>>Or that to play recorded music in the old days
>>meant sticking a black vinyl disc on a big turntable
>>and place a stylus on it.
>
>Those were SIMPLE times! I love the novelty of it.
Me too. :-) I used to have a porable vinyl-record player that was built into a
suitcase and had to be plugged in to be played. I used to play "Sesame Street"
song records on it a lot as well as those old Disney
storybooks-with-record-included (such as "Cinderella" and some "Winnie The
Pooh" books. I used to have relatives that owned a "The Fox and The Hound" book
and record.
The only thing about vinyl records that have come to bug me, though, is to make
sure that the turntable is playing in the right speed with the way the record
was meant to be played. (There are three different settings on the record
player for the speed certain records would play.) Another thing that bugs me to
no end further is that of in any circumstances the electricity is cut off to
the record player while playing the record (ie, turning the player off while
the stylus is still on the vinyl, plug pulled from socket, power in house
knocked off by storm or whatever), the music and sounds coming from the record
would drop from normal speed and slowly or
so...iiit...ssste-eeeep---einnnszz..l-yooiekkke...thdiiissszzz...("it steepens
like this." Think of the opening of "Monthy Python and the Holy Grail" of what
happens to the soundtrack music during the display those "sacking" titles). It
becomes an unearthly horrid sound mess that would somewhat sear me scared to
this day. Neither problem appears to happen to personal audiocassetes nor DVDs.
>
>>Or a world void of DVDs or even videotapes.
>
>As long as people still had 8mm movie cameras to save their memories on.
And people's only two options of watching movies only in theaters, or at least
TV. No third opition of home video entertainment from Hollywood and such, yet.
(Would have been neat to have at least one movie camera, though.)
>
>>Still, it's nothing like: "Hey, she's as cold quiet as
>>Silent Cal" or something like that that only the WB
>>looneytunes would only do.
>>John Shughart
>
>Pretty much!
>
Even though there were those World War II cartoons Walt Disney produced for the
US Government and Army then. This included a famous short where Donald Duck
dreamt that he was captured by the Nazis and force into Hilter-worship against
his will. Said film ended with him waking up, hugging and kissing a mini
Statue-of-Liberty and being glad of being in a free America.
But that was for the Goverment's behalf. The public image was that Mickey,
Donald, and the gang were in this world in a timeless bubble of comedy and
entertainment.
John Shughart
Steve Carras
(And of coruse stick shift city buses and vacation super-busaes for many years!)
>
> >Or a world void of DVDs or even videotapes.
>
> As long as people still had 8mm movie cameras to save their memories on.
>
> >Still, it's nothing like: "Hey, she's as cold quiet as
> >Silent Cal" or something like that that only the WB
> >looneytunes would only do.
> >John Shughart
>
> Pretty much!
>
> From the Master of Car-too-nal Knowledge...
> Christopher M. Sobieniak
>
> --"Fightin' the Frizzies since 1978"--
Well, I audio recorded a lot of TV back then.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>Chris Sobieniak wrote --
>>When will he learn that he can never slow him
>>down? Poor Little Roadrunner's never bothered
>>anyone. Because running down the road is his
>>idea of having fun!
>>ROADRUNNER!
>>The coyote's after you!
>>ROADRUNNER
>>If he catches you you're through!
>>Poor little roadrunner's never bothered anyone.
>>Because running down the road is his ideal of
>>having FUN!!!"
>>They DON'T make theme songs like that
>>anymore!
>Would make a great country music or hoedown
>bluegrass song. :-)
Hahahaha! We need that!
>Hey, Chris, remember "Beep! Beep! The Road
>Runner?" (The Gold Key comic)
Yes I do! I still have a few issues im my collection!
Again, they don't make comics like they used to!
>Hmmm ;-( Well, yes come to think of it those
>button touch-tone phones did start around the late
>1970s and the whole 1980s, or something like
>that. I do recall seeing them around as I was
>growning into an older little boy.
Those phones were actually perfected much earlier, say the 1950s. An
educational film produced during the Seattle Worlds Fair in '61 had a
couple kid kids venture to the Bell Telephone company's exhibit and
marvel at the wonders of tomorrow, including means of improving dialing
on rotary phones, a primitive paging system, and "Push-Botton Phoning"!
This film was "Century 21 Calling.." and is available for download via
Archive.org's collection of empheral films.
>So, in a way "Space Jam" was a kind of a
>milestone in Black American history regarding
>Looney Tunes.
>(Er, I hope I'm not offending anyone with that
>above quip.)
Not me! It was much better obviously to what Bugs did to one black
hunter in "All This & Rabbits Stew".
>Ironically, there were stories about non-whites
>working in animation studios during those years.
>There was even a Hispanic animator working for
>Walt Disney then, despite the rumors of Walt being
>an alleged racist.
I do wonder who could be considered the first black animator in
animation history, or other non-white groups that had been able to find
a career in American animation's past? Such entriguing thoughts.
>>I wonder if we'll ever get those fishbowl-like
>>helmets with the antenna on top? ^_^
>I wanna have those atomic laser-guns that could
>rip through concrete. :-)
Never thought of that. I still want my flying car!
>And Eisner thinks animators are stupid.
Shame on him! They have better ideas than he believes so.
>>Obvious. And nothing like the days when you had
>>those differences in things like department stores
>>that HAD departments, and not just clothes and
>>furniture (I miss the electronic sections myself).
>>Or perhaps drug stores that had soda shacks and
>>people had to wash their clothes by and and
>>hang them out to dry, or perhaps when manual
>>labor WAS manual labor (before it became
>>automatic and mechanized).
>I remember when there were shoe stores around,
>like Kenny's.
Heh, I do too! We used to have one once I didn't much favor to go to
caled "Pic-Way", which is simular to Payless and those other generic
places.
>>At least I think they still have milkmen delivering
>>milk and other dairy products in the UK.
>The Brits still have them? In 2004? O_O Can
>anyone from Britian or a British expert here in the
>US verify for us.
Here's one link I found so far...
http://ww.milkdeliveries.co.uk/
This is a site for one dairy over there. They have many it seems.
When we brought up about Urusei Yatsura and Monty Python earlier, I
couldn't help but think of how neat it would've been if UY was given
simular treatment on PBS as did Monty Python,a nd there could've been a
good number of fans that would've loved watching what was touted as the
most bizzare and weird cartoon they've never seen before. Would've made
it perfect to clue in an audience that was on the mindset that animation
was for kids and that you couldn't do anything that would go against
that notion like it has been done in anime.
>Me too. :-) I used to have a porable vinyl-record
>player that was built into a suitcase and had to be
>plugged in to be played.
I usually had the simular type of kiddie phonograph models including
that of Fisher-Price's heavy-duty type.
>I used to play "Sesame Street" song records on it
>a lot
I miss those tunes, especially "Sing". Joe Raposo was a genius when he
was still around.
>as well as those old Disney
>storybooks-with-record-included (such as
>"Cinderella" and some "Winnie The Pooh" books. I
>used to have relatives that owned a "The Fox and
>The Hound" book and record.
Now those I remember!
"You know when it's time to turn the page, when Tinker Bell rings her
little bells like this....
RRRIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Let's Begin Now!"
I don't know if it was this or the Weekly Reader books that got me on
the track of reading early in my life. ^_^
>The only thing about vinyl records that have come
>to bug me, though, is to make sure that the
>turntable is playing in the right speed with the way
>the record was meant to be played. (There are
>three different settings on the record player for the
>speed certain records would play.) Another thing
>that bugs me to no end further is that of in any
>circumstances the electricity is cut off to the record
>player while playing the record (ie, turning the
>player off while the stylus is still on the vinyl, plug
>pulled from socket, power in house knocked off by
>storm or whatever), the music and sounds coming
>from the record would drop from normal speed and
>slowly or
>so...iiit...ssste-eeeep---einnnszz..l-yooiekkke...thdii
>ssszzz...("it steepens like this." Think of the
>opening of "Monthy Python and the Holy Grail" of
>what happens to the soundtrack music during the
>display those "sacking" titles). It becomes an
>unearthly horrid sound mess that would somewhat
>sear me scared to this day. Neither problem
>appears to happen to personal audiocassetes nor
>DVDs.
I actually LOVED that! I was impressed by those odd distrubances and
wanted to know just how it was done and all. It's also the same matter
for any recorded medium on film or tape if played at any other speed or
being chewed in the machine itself.
>And people's only two options of watching movies
>only in theaters, or at least TV. No third opition of
>home video entertainment from Hollywood and
>such, yet. (Would have been neat to have at least
>one movie camera, though.)
Or if they had 16mm or Super-8mm projectors, they could always buy films
to watch as well.
>Even though there were those World War II
>cartoons Walt Disney produced for the US
>Government and Army then. This included a
>famous short where Donald Duck dreamt that he
>was captured by the Nazis and force into
>Hilter-worship against his will. Said film ended with
>him waking up, hugging and kissing a mini
>Statue-of-Liberty and being glad of being in a free
>America.
Hope you got the DVD these cartoons are on too!
>But that was for the Goverment's behalf. The
>public image was that Mickey, Donald, and the
>gang were in this world in a timeless bubble of
>comedy and entertainment.
>John Shughart
Pretty much.
DishRoom1
I wrote --
>>Chris Sobieniak wrote --
>
>>Hey, Chris, remember "Beep! Beep! The Road
>>Runner?" (The Gold Key comic)
>
>Yes I do! I still have a few issues im my collection!
Good for you. However, I used to have some of them around but they're gone with
the other comics of my childhood. :-(
I always found it funny that not only would Wile E. and the Road Runner would
speak in their old comic books, but that he talked in rhyme, like his sons did.
And that he had sons at all, both unlike the WB animations.
>
>Again, they don't make comics like they used to!
I agree. While I'm for mature themed comics and cartoons, I hate the sorry
shape the American comics industry is in today.
Sure, there was been of late some excellent readable comics like "Herobear and
the Kid", "Tellos", "David and Goliath" (an original, wonderful limted series
about a British kid in WWII era America and a magical winged lion, no relation
to the Biblical story.)
But nearly a whole lot of comic titles out there, including even the familar
superhero titles --especailly the DC Comics ones -- are a drag to read. they
have become somewhat uncreative, too depressed and nilistic, too involved in
politics, toys and mechandising. There used to be fantasy and/or adventure in
the superhero titles. Now over the past decade it seems to be more about
selling action figures and making animated TV series than the fantasy, the
tragedy, the excitment and wonder of being a superhero. And then there's that
silly or awful stuff the writers put into the comics over the past decade --
you know, the death of Superman, electromanegtic Superman, the Spider-Man
clone/Scarlet Spider, Green Latern turning into a sicko villian and replaced
by a teenager Green Latern...
>
>>Hmmm ;-( Well, yes come to think of it those
>>button touch-tone phones did start around the late
>>1970s and the whole 1980s, or something like
>>that. I do recall seeing them around as I was
>>growning into an older little boy.
>
>Those phones were actually perfected much earlier, say the 1950s. An
>educational film produced during the Seattle Worlds Fair in '61 had a
>couple kid kids venture to the Bell Telephone company's exhibit and
>marvel at the wonders of tomorrow, including means of improving dialing
>on rotary phones, a primitive paging system, and "Push-Botton Phoning"!
>This film was "Century 21 Calling.." and is available for download via
>Archive.org's collection of empheral films.
Ah. :-) I need to learn more about that if I could.
>
>>So, in a way "Space Jam" was a kind of a
>>milestone in Black American history regarding
>>Looney Tunes.
>>(Er, I hope I'm not offending anyone with that
>>above quip.)
>
>Not me! It was much better obviously to what Bugs did to one black
>hunter in "All This & Rabbits Stew".
Bet that's the sort of WB cartoon you won't see a whole lot of, these days.
*Sigh..* so... as it pains me to ask... how was the cartoon like?
>
>>Ironically, there were stories about non-whites
>>working in animation studios during those years.
>>There was even a Hispanic animator working for
>>Walt Disney then, despite the rumors of Walt being
>>an alleged racist.
>
>I do wonder who could be considered the first black animator in
>animation history, or other non-white groups that had been able to find
>a career in American animation's past? Such entriguing thoughts.
Maybe these questions need some help somewhere on the internet that could
answer all of that.
I remember reading an article on this sort of subect (where I learned about the
Hispanic Disney animator.) It said that there were some times where non-white
animators in those decades past did counter some thoughtless racism, but it's
amazing that they could find jobs at all at a time blacks were forced to ride
in the back of the bus behind whites.
Thanks.
>
>When we brought up about Urusei Yatsura and Monty Python earlier, I
>couldn't help but think of how neat it would've been if UY was given
>simular treatment on PBS as did Monty Python,a nd there could've been a
>good number of fans that would've loved watching what was touted as the
>most bizzare and weird cartoon they've never seen before. Would've made
>it perfect to clue in an audience that was on the mindset that animation
>was for kids and that you couldn't do anything that would go against
>that notion like it has been done in anime.
That would have been a neat idea if some non-cable TV network (other than Fox's
Fox Box for children) to show anime to people would couldn't get the
anime-playing cable stations, The Anime Network and The Cartoon Network.
>
>>Me too. :-) I used to have a porable vinyl-record
>>player that was built into a suitcase and had to be
>>plugged in to be played.
>
>I usually had the simular type of kiddie phonograph models including
>that of Fisher-Price's heavy-duty type.
>
>>I used to play "Sesame Street" song records on it
>>a lot
>
>I miss those tunes, especially "Sing". Joe Raposo was a genius when he
>was still around.
Yeah, "Sing A Song" was and still is a beautiful masterpiece, even when I was a
kid. ^_^ -- o/~ o/~! Next to "There's a (policeman, fireman, ect.) in Your
Neighborhood" and some song some female Muppets sang about employed women
(can't think of the tune, sorry to say >.<)
>
>>as well as those old Disney
>>storybooks-with-record-included (such as
>>"Cinderella" and some "Winnie The Pooh" books. I
>>used to have relatives that owned a "The Fox and
>>The Hound" book and record.
>
>Now those I remember!
>"You know when it's time to turn the page, when Tinker Bell rings her
>little bells like this....
>RRRIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
>Let's Begin Now!"
Oh, yes, that brings back memories.
>
>I don't know if it was this or the Weekly Reader books that got me on
>the track of reading early in my life. ^_^
I remember I was into reading through "Seseme Street" and "The Electric
Company" as well as some classic children's book from Dr. Suess and Richard
Scarry. I can't remember a time when I was unable to read any words in fact.
^_^
>
>>The only thing about vinyl records that have come
>>to bug me, though, is to make sure that the
>>turntable is playing in the right speed with the way
>>the record was meant to be played. (There are
>>three different settings on the record player for the
>>speed certain records would play.) Another thing
>>that bugs me to no end further is that of in any
>>circumstances the electricity is cut off to the record
>>player while playing the record (ie, turning the
>>player off while the stylus is still on the vinyl, plug
>>pulled from socket, power in house knocked off by
>>storm or whatever), the music and sounds coming
>>from the record would drop from normal speed and
>>slowly or
>>so...iiit...ssste-eeeep---einnnszz..l-yooiekkke...thdii
>>ssszzz...("it steepens like this." Think of the
>>opening of "Monthy Python and the Holy Grail" of
>>what happens to the soundtrack music during the
>>display those "sacking" titles). It becomes an
>>unearthly horrid sound mess that would somewhat
>>sear me scared to this day. Neither problem
>>appears to happen to personal audiocassetes nor
>>DVDs.
(BTW, I meant CDs. CDs are audio-only digital disks.)
>
>I actually LOVED that! I was impressed by those odd distrubances and
>wanted to know just how it was done and all. It's also the same matter
>for any recorded medium on film or tape if played at any other speed or
>being chewed in the machine itself.
Well, I glad that you could handle it stronger. This fear I had came when I was
at one time tried to play a "I Love Trash" song by Oscar The Grouch, but the
record was at a wrong speed somehow and I turned off the record while the
stylus was *still* on it, with no thought of what would happen next. I thought
tuning off a a record plyer in that fashion would be like turning off a TV or
elecrtic lights. But the next I knew, for about a mintue or so, thouds from the
record contuniue but more and more distorted slowly, like the audio version of
playing a movie slower and more slower. Being a little kid then I paniced crap
over the situation and have been sensitive to such similar experiences since as
I grew up.
>
>>And people's only two options of watching movies
>>only in theaters, or at least TV. No third opition of
>>home video entertainment from Hollywood and
>>such, yet. (Would have been neat to have at least
>>one movie camera, though.)
>
>Or if they had 16mm or Super-8mm projectors, they could always buy films
>to watch as well.
I remember reading that back over 110 years ago, when movies where invented,
they had some machines that funtion as both a movie camera and projector, I
think.
I wonder how such a thing could work. O_o
>
>>Even though there were those World War II
>>cartoons Walt Disney produced for the US
>>Government and Army then. This included a
>>famous short where Donald Duck dreamt that he
>>was captured by the Nazis and force into
>>Hilter-worship against his will. Said film ended with
>>him waking up, hugging and kissing a mini
>>Statue-of-Liberty and being glad of being in a free
>>America.
>
>Hope you got the DVD these cartoons are on too!
I'll try, but they're about over $30 each and I'm in the middle of collecting
anime series like "Saber Marrionette J to X" and "Wolf's Rain".
>
>>But that was for the Goverment's behalf. The
>>public image was that Mickey, Donald, and the
>>gang were in this world in a timeless bubble of
>>comedy and entertainment.
>>John Shughart
>
>Pretty much.
>
I wish this would continue, but then you got the Eisnerians locking the old
cartoons away from television, and instead have had done pathetic versions of
the characters on "House of Mouse". :-(
John Shughart
Kip Williams
> Those phones were actually perfected much earlier, say the 1950s. An
> educational film produced during the Seattle Worlds Fair in '61 had a
> couple kid kids venture to the Bell Telephone company's exhibit and
> marvel at the wonders of tomorrow, including means of improving dialing
> on rotary phones, a primitive paging system, and "Push-Botton Phoning"!
> This film was "Century 21 Calling.." and is available for download via
> Archive.org's collection of empheral films.
Some time in the 60s, I got to try the Picture Phone at Chicago's Museum
of Science and Industry. Stood in line for my chance to talk to a kid in
Disneyland. Neither of us had anything to say. ("Well, how are you?") We
both kept looking away at the monitor, which gave us a shifty-eyed look.
Elsewhere in the museum they had a hologram exhibit that included a
picture of a touch-tone phone handset. I think I'd already seen one of
these, because we had friends who always got new stuff like that.
Kip Williams
recovering nostalgic
Chris Sobieniak
>Chris Sobieniak wrote --
>>collection!
>Good for you. However, I used to have some of
>them around but they're gone with the other
>comics of my childhood. :-(
I've kept a few from mine, along with my brother's and late uncle's
while I'm at it (and whatever else I find along the way).
>I always found it funny that not only would Wile E.
>and the Road Runner would speak in their old
>comic books, but that he talked in rhyme, like his
>sons did. And that he had sons at all, both unlike
>the WB animations.
That part always seemed funny to me as well. I personally enjoyed the
times when Wile E. got to talk such as in the Bugs Bunny-involved toons
and in "The Adventures of the Road Runner". Always felt rather nice to
hear what he had to say about what he does and why he does it over and
over with zero percentage of success.
>Bet that's the sort of WB cartoon you won't see a
>whole lot of, these days.
>*Sigh..* so... as it pains me to ask... how was the
>cartoon like?
A close friend of mine wrote about it in a review I can link to you
later!
>>Here's one link I found so far...
>>http://ww.milkdeliveries.co.uk/
>>This is a site for one dairy over there. They have
>>many it seems.
>Thanks.
At least it's nice to see the tradition staying around a bit longer
there.
>>I miss those tunes, especially "Sing". Joe Raposo
>>was a genius when he
>>was still around.
>Yeah, "Sing A Song" was and still is a beautiful
>masterpiece, even when I was a kid. ^_^ -- o/~
>o/~!
Heh, had to listen to the Carpenters version sometime ago and it brought
back those memories again!
>Next to "There's a (policeman, fireman, ect.) in
>Your Neighborhood" and some song some female
>Muppets sang about employed women (can't think
>of the tune, sorry to say >.<)
Oh well, it's still embedded in our brains anyway!
>>"You know when it's time to turn the page, when
>>Tinker Bell rings her little bells like this....
>>RRRIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
>>Let's Begin Now!"
>Oh, yes, that brings back memories.
I know! Somehow I can't go by without thinking of those chimes in my
head everytime I turn the page!
>I remember I was into reading through "Seseme
>Street" and "The Electric Company" as well as
>some classic children's book from Dr. Suess and
>Richard Scarry. I can't remember a time when I
>was unable to read any words in fact.
>^_^
That was MY childhood too!
>I wish this would continue, but then you got the
>Eisnerians locking the old cartoons away from
>television, and instead have had done pathetic
>versions of the characters on "House of Mouse". :-(
>John Shughart
Shame again! Nothing like it used to be for my generation.