Where to sell animation art
elo...@lme.com
sell. Ebay and Yahoo auctions didn't produce any results. I'm hoping
someone can give me some ideas on where to sell them.
Thanks
Beatletoon
Stephen W. Worth
<elo...@lme.com> wrote:
If you got no results at Ebay, chances are you need to rethink
your prices. You can't sell art for what you paid for it retail.
Just like driving a car off the lot diminishes its value, animation
art on the secondary market is a whole different ball game than
storefront galleries. A general rule of thumb is recent production
and limited edition art sells for 1/4 to 1/3 the original retail
price. Vintage artwork sells for 1/2 to 3/4 what you see it selling
for in galleries. This is a simple generalization, but if you are
trying to get the price you paid for it out of the piece, you
aren't going to attract much interest.
See ya
Steve
--
Visit Spumco's Wonderful World of Cartoons:
http://www.spumco.com alt.animation.spumco
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Learn about animation art (without going BROKE!)
Vintage Ink & Paint http://www.vintageip.com
Thomas E. Reed
(Excuse me a moment...BWAH-HAA-HAAAH! Oh, my God...let me catch my
breath...thanks...)
My friend, you've been taken. You bought those cels under the widely
held hallucination that they are art, that they appreciate in value,
that anyone except someone who sets himself up as a "dealer" and can
con easily deluded collectors can make money at this racket.
Cels are souvenirs. You buy them if you like the characters. You buy
stock in a good stable company if you want to make money. The same
warning goes for comic books, collectible cards, maquettes, "signed
and numbered" prints or anything else. Collecting is a racket, and the
only people who make money at it are racketeers.
Come see animation from a crossed pair of eyes...
Tom Reed's Off Model (http://www.off-model.com)
G&L
"Thomas E. Reed" wrote:
I was once in one of those stores, those self-referrential "galleries". On
the wall were an original Pinnochio animation ruff and a clean up drawing
of King Stefan. Other stuff like those mass produced limited editions
(some maybe hand inked in Asia, some were printed or silk-screened) and a
tight rough layout on 11"x17" bond from a recent Disney comic (coulda been
farmed to a studio from Europe or South America) were more than twice the
amount of the original one-of-a-kind production drawings. Without "pulling
rank" as an animation lover and an artist I asked why are the unoriginals
were worth more. It came down to what the public thinks is prettier and
character popularity. BTW I have never met anyone in one of those
"galleries" who knew what they were talking about.
Gerard
http://www3.telus.net/drard/
now with "rollovers"....oooh....aah
Stephen W. Worth
> I was once in one of those stores, those self-referrential "galleries". On
> the wall were an original Pinnochio animation ruff and a clean up drawing
> of King Stefan. Other stuff like those mass produced limited editions
> were more than twice the
> amount of the original one-of-a-kind production drawings. Without "pulling
> rank" as an animation lover and an artist I asked why are the unoriginals
> were worth more.
They probably bought the drawings from me. I don't gouge like
the studios do for recent art!
If you would like a nice matched set of the two kings from Sleeping
Beauty by John Lounsbery, I would be happy to sell them to you
for $75. You can't beat that price for a set of drawings by one
of the nine old men anywhere!
G&L
"Stephen W. Worth" wrote:
> In article <3B27CBAD...@telus.net>, G&L <hous...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > I was once in one of those stores, those self-referrential "galleries". On
> > the wall were an original Pinnochio animation ruff and a clean up drawing
> > of King Stefan. Other stuff like those mass produced limited editions
> > were more than twice the
> > amount of the original one-of-a-kind production drawings. Without "pulling
> > rank" as an animation lover and an artist I asked why are the unoriginals
> > were worth more.
>
> They probably bought the drawings from me. I don't gouge like
> the studios do for recent art!
>
> If you would like a nice matched set of the two kings from Sleeping
> Beauty by John Lounsbery, I would be happy to sell them to you
> for $75. You can't beat that price for a set of drawings by one
> of the nine old men anywhere!
>
WOW! $75.00....... even American dollars is pretty good. That was several years
ago I saw that Stefan C.U and it was $700.00 + . But alas things are tight here
and I'm too practical. I'm sure you'll have takers from your post. When I'm in
the market V.I & P will be the first place I'll call.
Gerard
Panda Phil
"Thomas E. Reed" wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 20:21:19 GMT, <elo...@lme.com> wrote:
>
> >I have a personal collection of animation cels that I am looking to
> >sell. Ebay and Yahoo auctions didn't produce any results. I'm hoping
> >someone can give me some ideas on where to sell them.
>
> (Excuse me a moment...BWAH-HAA-HAAAH! Oh, my God...let me catch my
> breath...thanks...)
>
<snip>
Gee, I dunno who you're raggin' on the guy, it's sounds like perfectly
reasonable question to me. I have a couple of Bakshi LOTR's and a rather
decent Animated Star Trek cel that've been gathering dust in a back closet
since the mid-80's. I'm well aware that these aren't big-ticket items, but
I've still thought about perhaps trying to sell them for a few extra $$.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about the biz to know who to approach
with them. Or if I should even bother.
---PHIL
Thomas E. Reed
I said...
>> (Excuse me a moment...BWAH-HAA-HAAAH! Oh, my God...let me catch my
>> breath...thanks...)
Which, by the way, is one of the few times I have ever resorted to
that technique. And then, Panda Phil <da...@halcyon.com> wrote:
> Gee, I dunno who you're raggin' on the guy, it's sounds like perfectly
>reasonable question to me. I have a couple of Bakshi LOTR's and a rather
>decent Animated Star Trek cel that've been gathering dust in a back closet
>since the mid-80's. I'm well aware that these aren't big-ticket items, but
>I've still thought about perhaps trying to sell them for a few extra $$.
I can't help it...it's too rich...BWAH-HAA-HAAH! (sobbing from the
agony of too much laughter...)
Panda, you don't understand it either! The things you have and that
the other guy has are WORTHLESS! You spent your hard-earned money for
NOTHING!
Well, not exactly nothing. They have "sentimental value." You might
like them. You might like to frame them and think about them. But if
you think you can make anything from these so-called "collectibles"
that will give you a positive cash flow above the rate of inflation
since you first bought them, I've got some land south of Miami you'll
be eager to buy.
Understand this if you understand nothing else; the only financial
value art has is what other people are willing to pay for it.
Collectors are all suckers, and the reason dealers make money on this
stuff is that they can con you, talking up how rare and important the
art is, and how much it will appreciate in value. Then, when they get
the money from you, these dealers put it into General Motors stock and
leave it there for a decade or more. Their investment is the only one
that appreciates.
So unless you want to perform the morally reprehensible act of
cheating another human being, by lying to them about how "valuable"
this stuff is, do yourself a favor. Pull it out of the closet, dust it
off, put it in a frame, mount it on the wall and enjoy it. That's the
only genuine, unarguable value it has.
Invid Fan
<tom...@sundial.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:32:52 GMT,
>
> I said...
>
> >> (Excuse me a moment...BWAH-HAA-HAAAH! Oh, my God...let me catch my
> >> breath...thanks...)
>
> Which, by the way, is one of the few times I have ever resorted to
> that technique. And then, Panda Phil <da...@halcyon.com> wrote:
>
> > Gee, I dunno who you're raggin' on the guy, it's sounds like perfectly
> >reasonable question to me. I have a couple of Bakshi LOTR's and a rather
> >decent Animated Star Trek cel that've been gathering dust in a back closet
> >since the mid-80's. I'm well aware that these aren't big-ticket items, but
> >I've still thought about perhaps trying to sell them for a few extra $$.
>
> I can't help it...it's too rich...BWAH-HAA-HAAH! (sobbing from the
> agony of too much laughter...)
>
> Panda, you don't understand it either! The things you have and that
> the other guy has are WORTHLESS! You spent your hard-earned money for
> NOTHING!
>
The print I just bought for $150 from an artist is also worthless. Just
an image on a paper. I am such a fool.
> Well, not exactly nothing. They have "sentimental value." You might
> like them. You might like to frame them and think about them. But if
> you think you can make anything from these so-called "collectibles"
> that will give you a positive cash flow above the rate of inflation
> since you first bought them, I've got some land south of Miami you'll
> be eager to buy.
>
> Understand this if you understand nothing else; the only financial
> value art has is what other people are willing to pay for it.
> Collectors are all suckers, and the reason dealers make money on this
> stuff is that they can con you, talking up how rare and important the
> art is, and how much it will appreciate in value. Then, when they get
> the money from you, these dealers put it into General Motors stock and
> leave it there for a decade or more. Their investment is the only one
> that appreciates.
>
> So unless you want to perform the morally reprehensible act of
> cheating another human being, by lying to them about how "valuable"
> this stuff is, do yourself a favor. Pull it out of the closet, dust it
> off, put it in a frame, mount it on the wall and enjoy it. That's the
> only genuine, unarguable value it has.
>
Then again, if you're tired of looking at it on the wall, should you
throw it away or sell it to another fan? Old toys have no value. The
paintings in a museum have no value. Hell, my dvd collection has no
value. Still, if someone is willing to pay for them I see nothing wrong
with that.
--
Chris Mack "I'm Mr. Gone! A student of the mystic arts! Unfortinitly,
'Invid Fan' an untalented student, or I wouldn't have to keep
shooting fools like you!" Mr. Gone, 'The Maxx'
Stephen W. Worth
> Well, not exactly nothing. They have "sentimental value." You might
> like them. You might like to frame them and think about them. But if
> you think you can make anything from these so-called "collectibles"
> that will give you a positive cash flow above the rate of inflation
> since you first bought them, I've got some land south of Miami you'll
> be eager to buy.
What you say is pretty much true when it comes to current and
limited edition artwork, but not for vintage production art.
The market for extreme high end pieces has softened
considerably, but Disney cels from the fifties and early
sixties, animation drawings and Warner Bros production
art from the fifties have appreciated significantly in the
past ten years.
The problem with collectors trying to sell their art really
doesn't have much to do with the art itself. The problem is
that most retail storefront galleries have markups of two
to five times over their wholesale cost for the art. When you
buy from them, you pay retail. When you sell, they pay
wholesale. In order for a retail customer to be able to make
a profit on his artwork, the wholesale value has to at least
double. It's just like driving a new car off the lot...
Panda Phil
"Thomas E. Reed" wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:32:52 GMT,
>
>
> Panda, you don't understand it either! The things you have and that
> the other guy has are WORTHLESS! You spent your hard-earned money for
> NOTHING!
>
> Well, not exactly nothing. They have "sentimental value." You might
> like them. You might like to frame them and think about them. But if
> you think you can make anything from these so-called "collectibles"
> that will give you a positive cash flow above the rate of inflation
> since you first bought them, I've got some land south of Miami you'll
> be eager to buy.
>
> Understand this if you understand nothing else; the only financial
> value art has is what other people are willing to pay for it.
> Collectors are all suckers, and the reason dealers make money on this
> stuff is that they can con you, talking up how rare and important the
> art is, and how much it will appreciate in value. Then, when they get
> the money from you, these dealers put it into General Motors stock and
> leave it there for a decade or more. Their investment is the only one
> that appreciates.
>
> So unless you want to perform the morally reprehensible act of
> cheating another human being, by lying to them about how "valuable"
> this stuff is, do yourself a favor. Pull it out of the closet, dust it
> off, put it in a frame, mount it on the wall and enjoy it. That's the
> only genuine, unarguable value it has.
>
> Well I never claimed to be a collector. I have maybe a dozen assorted cels
> on my wall that I have becuase I like the character design, and I still get
> kind of a 'gee-wizz' feeling from owning a piece of a movie. But these shots
> aren't doing anyone any good sitting in a drawer. My tastes in animation have
> changed so they're not likely to ever be hung. So why not get them to someone
> who'd appreciate them. If they're willing to pay $40-$50 for them, that's
> icing on the cake.
Just plain ol capitalism my friend. Offer a good or service and see what
people are willing to pay for it.
---PHIL
Thomas E. Reed
wrote this reply to my simple statement of the truth. By gosh, he is
beginning to get the idea...
>Then again, if you're tired of looking at it on the wall, should you
>throw it away or sell it to another fan? Old toys have no value. The
>paintings in a museum have no value. Hell, my dvd collection has no
>value. Still, if someone is willing to pay for them I see nothing wrong
>with that.
You're beginning to understand. Yes, he can be taught! These things
only have the value YOU put on them. However, to take that drawing on
a piece of paper which you bought for $150 (which you mentioned in a
part I snipped) and tell another human being "This is worth $1500, and
that's the truth" is imposing YOUR value judgment on him. That is a
situation fraught with the possibility of fraud.
Did you ever see the movie "The Train"? It involves the Nazis stealing
French paintings. The hero derails the train the Nazis are using to
steal the paintings. The Nazi in charge tells the hero that the art
means nothing to him - the art only has value to a man like him who is
educated. To the hero, it might as well be a string of pearls being
handed to an ape. (In a wordless scene, the hero makes it clear that
the Frenchmen who died to save those paintings gives them a value he
can understand, and kills the Nazi.)
In another message, big...@spumco.com says:
>What you say is pretty much true when it comes to current and
>limited edition artwork, but not for vintage production art.
>The market for extreme high end pieces has softened
>considerably, but Disney cels from the fifties and early
>sixties, animation drawings and Warner Bros production
>art from the fifties have appreciated significantly in the
>past ten years.
But that's still only to someone who puts value on these things. To
Howard Stern, it's still just "a drawing on a piece of plastic." And
to Howard, and a lot of other people who don't care about cartoons,
they're right. It's all relative.
Then Panda Phil <da...@halcyon.com> said:
> Just plain ol capitalism my friend. Offer a good or service and see what
>people are willing to pay for it.
The meaning of "capitalism" is relative, too. F'rinstance, things that
are considered fraud, theft, embezzlement and racketeering in the rest
of America are considered "capitalism" in Texas. Which kind of
explains the last election and its aftermath.
Furplay
>
>
> You're beginning to understand. Yes, he can be taught! These things
> only have the value YOU put on them. However, to take that drawing on
> a piece of paper which you bought for $150 (which you mentioned in a
> part I snipped) and tell another human being "This is worth $1500, and
> that's the truth" is imposing YOUR value judgment on him. That is a
> situation fraught with the possibility of fraud.
>
Which is why I don't hold much faith in the likes of the Overstreet
Price Guide, or for the insane-o prices that Gallery Lainzberg puts on
it's items (I still chuckle about the time they tried to sucker me out
of $1,500.00 for an "Astro Boy" cel that was actually a cel from
Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets).
IMO, animation studios should do what MWS Studios did with all their
Ninja Turtles cels. Bag them individually with their own COA and sell
them for $15 retail at WalMart and Target stores. Anyone who pays over a
grand for a "Disney sericel" that was'nt even used for the actual film's
production is a retard.
--
"Who's driving? Oh my God! Bear is driving!! How can that be?????"
Stephen W. Worth
> These things
> only have the value YOU put on them. However, to take that drawing on
> a piece of paper which you bought for $150 (which you mentioned in a
> part I snipped) and tell another human being "This is worth $1500, and
> that's the truth" is imposing YOUR value judgment on him. That is a
> situation fraught with the possibility of fraud.
You spent too much time listening to salesmen in Warner Bros
stores!
Vintage production animation art *does* have a definable value.
If I take a nice Captain Hook cel to six animation art dealers
and ask them to make an offer on it, the offers will all be
in the same general range. (Assuming all the dealers want a
Captain Hook cel...)
You appraise art just like you appraise anything else of
value... by documenting actual sales of similar items. Every
time Sothebys or Christies publishes a listing of prices
realized, you get more data to be able to accurately appraise.
Prices of vintage production animation art is more consistent
than you think. You don't see a wide fluctuation in values.
The thing that most non-dealers don't understand is that animation
art is a product sold just like any other product. If you go
to a high end storefront gallery with glossy color catalogs
and toll free 800 numbers staffed by banks of friendly sales-
people, you are going to pay a lot more than if you deal with
a low overhead operation. Most of the wide varience in pricing
that people wrongly assume is price gouging, isn't dishonest
at all. To be able to support a high end gallery operation, you
need to get at least a 300% markup over your cost. If a person
feels more comfortable shopping in that sort of environment, they
will have to pay for it. But that doesn't mean the art is worth
the full value that they pay for it retail. A good sized chunk
of the purchase price goes for the services rendered.
The high end gallery pays the same price for vintage art on the
wholesale market that a low overhead shop would. THAT price is
the true value of the piece, not the marked up retail price.
Limited edition cels are a different matter altogether. Their
value is artificially inflated. The cost of producing the
average limited edition cel is under $10 per unit. The only
reason they are priced so high, is because the studios that
produce them have control over how many are made and how
they are marketed. Since they can name their own prices
without fear of competition, they gouge shamelessly. The
people who buy these pieces find out the hard way that they
don't hold their value on the secondary market. The reason
is that the values aren't established by citing actual
sales the same way vintage art is.
You can't paint vintage art and current limiteds with the
same brush (to coin a phrase). They are two altogether
different animals.
> But that's still only to someone who puts value on these things. To
> Howard Stern, it's still just "a drawing on a piece of plastic." And
> to Howard, and a lot of other people who don't care about cartoons,
> they're right. It's all relative.
Howard Stern may also prefer the look of sterling silver over
gold, but that doesn't mean gold isn't more valuable.
If you are interested in learning about how animation art is
appraised, see the Vintage Ink & Paint website and request
the APPRAISING ANIMATION ART and ADVICE FOR COLLECTORS articles.
Stephen W. Worth
mhi...@ALL.SPAMMERS.MUST.DIE.radiks.net wrote:
> Which is why I don't hold much faith in the likes of the Overstreet
> Price Guide,
I don't know much about price guides. Are there any for animation
art? I imagine the accuracy of their valuations would depend on
the completeness of their research and the honesty of the people
doing the appraising.
> or for the insane-o prices that Gallery Lainzberg puts on
> it's items
Gallery Lainzberg is one of the most high service galleries in
the animation art business. They print a four color catalog, they
have trained salespeople on phone banks... they are the "Cadillac"
of catalog dealers. When you buy a cel from them, you are paying
for all that. If there are ten cels on a page of their catalog,
and it cost them $1000 to print that page, you can bet that each
piece is marked up at least $100. Add up the cost of salespeople
and maintaining a phone ordering system, and divide that by the
number of pieces in the catalog and add that too. Their prices
aren't insane at all. They are providing a level of service you
can't get at most "mom & pop" catalog dealers, and you are paying
for that.
> IMO, animation studios should do what MWS Studios did with all their
> Ninja Turtles cels. Bag them individually with their own COA and sell
> them for $15 retail at WalMart and Target stores.
Well, I don't think anyone will be following your advice! The
story of those cels isn't a pleasant one.
A fast-talking, big-promising gallery talked MWS into spending
a LOT of money sorting and packaging mass quantities of cels.
When the time came to actually sell them, the gallery couldn't
come up with sales totals to cover the expenses of the packaging.
To cover the loss, MWS was forced to dump the cels discount toy
distributors. Everyone involved lost a LOT of money on those cels.
Most collectors look at the sheer numbers of cels produced for
a feature or TV show and assume that there are enough cels to
be able to sell them for pennies and still make money. That
isn't the case. Less than 10% of the art produced for a feature,
and even less than that for a TV show are good enough images to
be salable. It takes a lot of man-hours to sort through the art
to put together the setups into images that people would actually
want to hang on their wall. Copy backgrounds, certs, mattes, and
packaging are on top of all of that. There is no way to be able
to make money selling cel setups at $10 and $15 apiece.
> Anyone who pays over a
> grand for a "Disney sericel" that was'nt even used for the actual film's
> production is a retard.
I agree with you on that. A sericel is an entirely different
thing from production art, though.
Furplay
>
>
> Gallery Lainzberg is one of the most high service galleries in
> the animation art business. They print a four color catalog, they
> have trained salespeople on phone banks... they are the "Cadillac"
> of catalog dealers. When you buy a cel from them, you are paying
> for all that. If there are ten cels on a page of their catalog,
> and it cost them $1000 to print that page, you can bet that each
> piece is marked up at least $100. Add up the cost of salespeople
> and maintaining a phone ordering system, and divide that by the
> number of pieces in the catalog and add that too. Their prices
> aren't insane at all. They are providing a level of service you
> can't get at most "mom & pop" catalog dealers, and you are paying
> for that.
>
Well, as I mentioned, for all their expertise, they could'nt even tell
the dif between an "Astro Boy" cel and a Gatchaman cel.
It's times like that that make me miss the good old days when Elvina
Green ran One Of A Kind Cartoon Art. At least she knew her stuff.
> > IMO, animation studios should do what MWS Studios did with all their
> > Ninja Turtles cels. Bag them individually with their own COA and sell
> > them for $15 retail at WalMart and Target stores.
>
> Well, I don't think anyone will be following your advice! The
> story of those cels isn't a pleasant one.
>
Please, inform me. All I can assume is that places like Lainzberg were
unhappy about being made to look like greedy chumps by this surprise.
> A fast-talking, big-promising gallery talked MWS into spending
> a LOT of money sorting and packaging mass quantities of cels.
> When the time came to actually sell them, the gallery couldn't
> come up with sales totals to cover the expenses of the packaging.
> To cover the loss, MWS was forced to dump the cels discount toy
> distributors. Everyone involved lost a LOT of money on those cels.
>
But, for once, the ordinary kid on the street had his/her chance to know
what it felt like to actually *own* their own cel, and quite possibly,
got hooked into becoming a collector years later.
Hell, I actually managed to not only score a TMNT cel at the local
Target, but it was one of Usagi Yojimbo as well (evil brag not intended).
> Most collectors look at the sheer numbers of cels produced for
> a feature or TV show and assume that there are enough cels to
> be able to sell them for pennies and still make money.
If I'm correct, that seems to be the attitude in Japan.
>
> > Anyone who pays over a
> > grand for a "Disney sericel" that was'nt even used for the actual film's
> > production is a retard.
>
> I agree with you on that. A sericel is an entirely different
> thing from production art, though.
>
I'm glad we could see eye to eye on this fact. A production cel going
for over 1K+ is bad enough, but trying to scam it for a knock-off
pseudo-cel is just plain wrong.
Invid Fan
<tom...@sundial.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:08:20 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
> wrote this reply to my simple statement of the truth. By gosh, he is
> beginning to get the idea...
>
> >Then again, if you're tired of looking at it on the wall, should you
> >throw it away or sell it to another fan? Old toys have no value. The
> >paintings in a museum have no value. Hell, my dvd collection has no
> >value. Still, if someone is willing to pay for them I see nothing wrong
> >with that.
>
> You're beginning to understand. Yes, he can be taught!
Since you've never heard me state a different viewpoint, this is a
rather foolish statement.
> These things
> only have the value YOU put on them. However, to take that drawing on
> a piece of paper which you bought for $150 (which you mentioned in a
> part I snipped) and tell another human being "This is worth $1500, and
> that's the truth" is imposing YOUR value judgment on him. That is a
> situation fraught with the possibility of fraud.
>
Then again, if he refused to pay $1500 I'd be forced to lower the
price. He would be imposing his value judgement on me :)
Who has the right to set the price of an item? Only the person who
created it? Using your reasoning, the supermarket I buy my food from
has no right to charge more then what they paid for it.
Stephen W. Worth
mhi...@ALL.SPAMMERS.MUST.DIE.radiks.net wrote:
In article <3B2E9D49...@ALL.SPAMMERS.MUST.DIE.radiks.net>,
mhi...@ALL.SPAMMERS.MUST.DIE.radiks.net wrote:
> Well, as I mentioned, for all their expertise, they could'nt even tell
> the dif between an "Astro Boy" cel and a Gatchaman cel.
Heh... I didn't say they were experts!
> It's times like that that make me miss the good old days when Elvina
> Green ran One Of A Kind Cartoon Art. At least she knew her stuff.
Elvina ran a good business. She's a sweet person. I haven't
heard from her in years. I hope she is doing well. She was
the only cel dealer who was also a Phd!
> But, for once, the ordinary kid on the street had his/her chance to know
> what it felt like to actually *own* their own cel, and quite possibly,
> got hooked into becoming a collector years later.
Well that is great, but it's better if the studio doesn't come
out of it in the red swearing they will never bother to sell
another cel.
> > Most collectors look at the sheer numbers of cels produced for
> > a feature or TV show and assume that there are enough cels to
> > be able to sell them for pennies and still make money.
>
> If I'm correct, that seems to be the attitude in Japan.
In Japan, there is no market at all for modern animation art.
I have heard stories about Japanese cel collectors that buy
vintage Disney, but in fifteen years of dealing, I've never
come across any. I don't think they really care for the stuff.
Furplay
>
>
> > It's times like that that make me miss the good old days when Elvina
> > Green ran One Of A Kind Cartoon Art. At least she knew her stuff.
>
> Elvina ran a good business. She's a sweet person. I haven't
> heard from her in years. I hope she is doing well. She was
> the only cel dealer who was also a Phd!
>
I was always amazed how a one-person operation running out of her home
could manage to land seriously Hella-sweet deals with the studios, such
as the arrangements she made to be the exclusive reseller for "Danger
Mouse" and "Robotech: The Sentinels" cels.
> > But, for once, the ordinary kid on the street had his/her chance to know
> > what it felt like to actually *own* their own cel, and quite possibly,
> > got hooked into becoming a collector years later.
>
> Well that is great, but it's better if the studio doesn't come
> out of it in the red swearing they will never bother to sell
> another cel.
>
> > > Most collectors look at the sheer numbers of cels produced for
> > > a feature or TV show and assume that there are enough cels to
> > > be able to sell them for pennies and still make money.
> >
> > If I'm correct, that seems to be the attitude in Japan.
>
> In Japan, there is no market at all for modern animation art.
> I have heard stories about Japanese cel collectors that buy
> vintage Disney, but in fifteen years of dealing, I've never
> come across any. I don't think they really care for the stuff.
Exactly. One tale of a friend who was in Japan stumbled across someone
at a shop who was about to unload a bunch of Dirty Pair and Nadia cels
and merchendise into the dumpster (since they've "run their course" in
Japan). You can only guess what a killing this guy made with all this
stuff when he brought it back to the US.
Panda Phil
Furplay wrote:
> "Stephen W. Worth" wrote:
> >
> >
> > > It's times like that that make me miss the good old days when Elvina
> > > Green ran One Of A Kind Cartoon Art. At least she knew her stuff.
> >
> > Elvina ran a good business. She's a sweet person. I haven't
> > heard from her in years. I hope she is doing well. She was
> > the only cel dealer who was also a Phd!
> >
>
> I was always amazed how a one-person operation running out of her home
> could manage to land seriously Hella-sweet deals with the studios, such
> as the arrangements she made to be the exclusive reseller for "Danger
> Mouse" and "Robotech: The Sentinels" cels.
>
Well now there's a name I've not heard in ages! Definately a sweet lady. I
used to see her all the time at mall antique shows and cons. Bought most of the
goodies in my collection from her. Didn't realize until later that I lived just
a couple of miles from her place. I seem to recall hearing that she passed away
a few years ago, but I've no way to confirm it.
As I recall, the Robotech deal was made after she'd met Carl Macek at a con
and bought some anime cels from him.
The amazing part is I think she kept rack of most of her inventory in her head.
She hired me briefly to try to organize her inventory/customer filing system and
I just had to surrender after a few weeks. It was just too horrible of a mess.
But then this was back in the days before animation cels became the big-money
business it is today.
>
> > > > Most collectors look at the sheer numbers of cels produced for
> > > > a feature or TV show and assume that there are enough cels to
> > > > be able to sell them for pennies and still make money.
> > >
> > > If I'm correct, that seems to be the attitude in Japan.
> >
> > In Japan, there is no market at all for modern animation art.
> > I have heard stories about Japanese cel collectors that buy
> > vintage Disney, but in fifteen years of dealing, I've never
> > come across any. I don't think they really care for the stuff.
>
> Exactly. One tale of a friend who was in Japan stumbled across someone
> at a shop who was about to unload a bunch of Dirty Pair and Nadia cels
> and merchendise into the dumpster (since they've "run their course" in
> Japan). You can only guess what a killing this guy made with all this
> stuff when he brought it back to the US.
>
> Unfortunately it seems that's starting to change, at least judging from some
> of the prices I'm seeing at places like Yahoo! Japan. :-p
---PHIL