Classic Cartoon Misconceptions
Steve Carras
having trouble getting on. Anyway, it's just a lot easier to post this here.
For instance:
1.I have always thought, or I did as a child that ALL Paramount cartoons before
the 1960s, aside from Popeye, were "Harverytoons".
2.I was always convinced that Terrytoons had no credits, Technicolor notice (of
course distributor Fox, with the invention of its Deluxe (tm) process would
soon do more in that anyway, and even ICE AGE is Deluxe Colored) or producer...
3.Ditto for Warner Bros.Blue Ribbon Reissues.
4.I also thought that the above from the 1930s and early 1940s actually HAD
later concentric rings FROM THE START....that say, "Little Dutch Plate"
(Freleng, October 1935,one of the early ones), HAD THE END and the Carl
Stalling theme!(And was Color by TECHNICOLOR when the Cinecolor-like 2 color
Technicolor was used, well, sstill Technicolor(tm) anyhow..)
5.I thought Mel Blanc did the Three Bears voices until 1980.
6.I'd always thought the Flinstones HAD a wrong 1962 copyright (because the
negatives to the 1960-61 were unlocatable and possibly in fact more likely due
to the use of the earlier theme, like the BUGS BUNNY SHOW theme, in those
previous shows, the theme music which had been replaced by "Flinstones, meet
the Flinstones") and that JOHN STEPHENSON & HAL SMITH did all the incidentals
even as I recognzied Frank Nelson, Don Messick, Herschel Bernardi, Howard
McNear,Paul Frees and Hoagy Carmichael on the soundtrack (scant credits
actually existed-that "1960" ending that's seen on CARTOON NETWORK is a
recreated one that historian and writer Earl Kress put together) and that
WARREN FOSTER wrote them. Additionally, on these same ones I'd see
"(C)Hanna-Barbera Productions 1966".:)
7.It's easy to mistake BUNNY AND CLAUDRE< CHIMP AND ZEE, COOL CAT and other
Bill Hendricks era WB cartoons for Hanna-Barbera, or DAFFY?SPEEDY and BUGS
BUNNY shows for same, due to the same sound effects.
8.Like many, I not only kept forgetting who the ALVIN SHOW of the early 1960s
was by (Format/Bagdasarian) but thought Jay Ward did them, what with the sound
efffects by Joe Siracusa (who'd done them for the Ward show-these and the HB
and WB effects are part of the massive Sound Ideas,Inc.package, used in such
films as "Airplane!", and since the 1990s "Boys and Girls" (opening credits)
and "Clueless"(same))and the Austin powers flicks).
9.Some people might think Tennessee Tuxedo, The Hunter and to an extent King
Leoanrdo and Odie and Underdog, four of the popular Leonardo-T.O.T.A.L. TV
cartoons of the 1960s, are Jay Ward cartoons (because of the Gamma Productioins
animation and becuase of the agencies that lumped these with the ACTUAL ward
cartoons) with Paramount sound effects (the one that Howard Fein described in a
post about the John K. "JETSONS" special as "like a cat or bird being
tortured", that's the oine I always keep referring to, when someone revs their
gams up or spins-the arrow, another Howie mentiooned and one I forgot, that was
used..) though only "Hunter" and Tux used them extensively.BTW Most TTV
cartoons used their own stock music and sound effects.
10.I had no idea the "Yogi Bear" type 1950s Hanna Barbera shorts had their own
vocal themes...guess why!
11.One everyone agrees on..I always thought that "Fat Albert" and "The Brady
Kids" and earlier "The Hardy Boys" and "Groovy Ghoulies", (I believe) were
traced from the "Archies" in terms of rock bands...organ on right, someone
standing up, someone (always a girl!!) playing the tambourine on the left same
movements, even in some cases outside the context of the rock group.Hey hey
WHAT??:)
===========================================================
"There's the space up there, the space down there, and there's the space
between your ears"-Skipper, Gilligan's Island, SMILE! YOu"RE ON MARS CAMERA
(1965)
ELurio
Leoanrdo and Odie and Underdog, four of the popular Leonardo-T.O.T.A.L. TV
cartoons of the 1960s, are Jay Ward cartoons (because of the Gamma Productioins
animation and becuase of the agencies that lumped these with the ACTUAL ward
cartoons) >>
....and because Rocky and Bullwinkle appeared in a couple of them...in the
backgrounds...:>
eric l.
Howard Fein
> 5.I thought Mel Blanc did the Three Bears voices until 1980.
Blanc did Paw's voice in the Bear 'pilot', nominally a Bugs starring
short. It's easy to tell on " Now, don't forget'cher LINES!" Blanc has
done 'dumb' voices somewhat similar to Freberg's take as Junyer,
notably as Mugsy.
>
> 6.I'd always thought the Flinstones HAD a wrong 1962 copyright (because the
> negatives to the 1960-61 were unlocatable and possibly in fact more likely due
> to the use of the earlier theme, like the BUGS BUNNY SHOW theme, in those
> previous shows, the theme music which had been replaced by "Flinstones, meet
> the Flinstones") and that JOHN STEPHENSON & HAL SMITH did all the incidentals
> even as I recognzied Frank Nelson, Don Messick, Herschel Bernardi, Howard
> McNear,Paul Frees and Hoagy Carmichael on the soundtrack (scant credits
> actually existed-that "1960" ending that's seen on CARTOON NETWORK is a
> recreated one that historian and writer Earl Kress put together) and that
> WARREN FOSTER wrote them. Additionally, on these same ones I'd see
> "(C)Hanna-Barbera Productions 1966".:)
Those retro Season 1 credits are far from complete. Credited Don
Messick only was on one episode from that season ("Rooms To Let").
Frees, McNear and Nelson guested in at least one episode themselves
("The Baby Sitters", "Split Personality" and "Hot Piano"
respectively), but they're omitted. With Season 2 credits long lost
since their prime-time airings 40 years ago (thanks to their strong
linkage with sponsor Winston), it's too bad Kress didn't incorporate
all the credits from that season as well. As it is, CN sticks the
retro credits after all Season 2 episodes. Herb Vigran, Sandra Gould,
Walker Edminston, Elliott Field and other Season 2 guests go
uncredited. If one didn't have the Internet or see the 1994 hardcover
book devoted to the series, one would never know that familiar names
associated with future seasons- Tony Benedict, Harvey Bullock, Herb
Finn, Joanna Lee, Larry Markes, Jack Raymond- wrote early episodes.
Warren Foster did many Season 1 and 2 episodes, but not ALL of them.
Looks like the retro credits DID get the Season 1 animator credits
right. Too bad they didn't also extend them to include Season 2
animators as well. There are several episodes ("Impractical Jokers",
"The House Guest", "Wilma's Vanishing Money") in which I just can't
identify the animators. I can spot Muse, Vinci, Lundy, Patterson,
Nicholas, Keil, Love et al without a problem (thanks to dedicated
closing episode credits for Seasons 3-6 appearing in syndication
through about 1991), but in the above episodes, the characters don't
look or walk the way they do in later seasons. As an uneducated guess,
I suspect Laverne Harding, Bob Bentley, Don Williams, C.L. Hartman are
behind these, their names appearing in concurrent H-B shorts with
theatrical-style credits: Quick Draw, Snoop & Blab the Doggies,
Snagglepuss et al.
Modern CN viewers must think that all Season 3 episodes were written
by Bullock and guested Howard Morris and Doug Young, with the credits
from "Swedish Visitors" (which, BTW, Young is NOT heard in!) grafted
on. Likewise, it appears that all post-childbirth episode were made in
1965, written by Finn/Dinhart and guest Messick and Harvey Korman
("How to Pick a Fight with Your Wife Without Trying.") And while CN
HAS restored the classic 1962-3 JETSONS end sequence, it pulled the
same trick, inserting the credits for "The Little Man".
> 7.It's easy to mistake BUNNY AND CLAUDRE< CHIMP AND ZEE, COOL CAT and other
> Bill Hendricks era WB cartoons for Hanna-Barbera, or DAFFY?SPEEDY and BUGS
> BUNNY shows for same, due to the same sound effects.
I thought the same thing about the early ARCHIE cartoons, which were
the first Filmation product to extensively use H-B SFX. They were
seldom, if ever heard in the earlier FANTASTIC VOYAGE, JOURNEY TO THE
CENTER OF THE EARTH or DC Superhero adaptations. The presence of a
laugh track (a staple of the prime-time H-B series made several years
earlier) and Howard Morris (another H-B staple circa 1962-66) further
fostered this belief.
>
> 8.Like many, I not only kept forgetting who the ALVIN SHOW of the early 1960s
> was by (Format/Bagdasarian) but thought Jay Ward did them, what with the sound
> efffects by Joe Siracusa (who'd done them for the Ward show-these and the HB
> and WB effects are part of the massive Sound Ideas,Inc.package, used in such
> films as "Airplane!", and since the 1990s "Boys and Girls" (opening credits)
> and "Clueless"(same))and the Austin powers flicks).
The theatricals GREASE and MANNEQUIN have animated opening title
sequences that use H-B SFX. As you and Artie McToon have noted, the
disco sequence in AIRPLANE garnishes Robert Hayes throwing away jacket
with a H-Besque high-pitched whistle. At the very end of CADDYSHACK,
the "gophaire" pops up out of his unscathed hole to a H-B "pa-loomp!"
> 9.Some people might think Tennessee Tuxedo, The Hunter and to an extent King
> Leoanrdo and Odie and Underdog, four of the popular Leonardo-T.O.T.A.L. TV
> cartoons of the 1960s, are Jay Ward cartoons (because of the Gamma
Productioins animation and becuase of the agencies that lumped these
with the ACTUAL ward cartoons) with Paramount sound effects (the one
that Howard Fein described in a post about the John K. "JETSONS"
special as "like a cat or bird being tortured", that's the oine I
always keep referring to, when someone revs their gams up or spins-the
arrow, another Howie mentiooned and one I forgot, that was used..)
though only "Hunter" and Tux used them extensively.BTW Most TTV
> cartoons used their own stock music and sound effects.
Total's identity crises can be attributed to the fact that in the
sixties and seventies many indie stations would slot its shows next
to, or with Ward shows. Dudley's syndicated package would stick a
Bullwinkle's Corner right after Commander McBragg or Tooter ("Heeelp,
Mr. Wizarrrd") Turtle.
Thank you, Steve, for remembering me- I'm flattered. The other famous
(pun!) Paramount SFX I cite was the high-pitched 'sproing' associated
with bows & arrows or something bouncing off something else. I don't
remember the Tux or Hunter segments that well, but occasionally a
Paramount SFX would be heard in an UNDERDOG episode. It was very
strange to hear them under something other than Sharples' underscore.
Seems like those SFX and Sharples were not only used for Paramount/KFS
sixties theatrical and TV shorts, except for the POPEYEs, BEETLEs and
KATs subcontracted by other studios. But several TV series not
directly made by Paramount, but by longtime Famous employee Joe Oriolo
(FELIX, HERCULES) or Hal Seeger (KOKO THE CLOWN). The fact that Jack
Mercer performs all voices on FELIX strengthens the Paramount
footprint. Sharples is credited for MILTON THE MONSTER, which I've
never seen, so I'm curious as to whether the Paramount SFX were used
as late as 1966. They're not in evidence in Seeger's BATFINK, made a
year later.
>
> 10.I had no idea the "Yogi Bear" type 1950s Hanna Barbera shorts had their own
> vocal themes...guess why!
The 1965 syndicated package I grew up on horribly scrambled many of
the early characters' intro and outro themes. I never even HEARD the
vocal Yogi pre-title intro until I got CN in 1993, but assumed the
intro for all Yogi shorts were that swingy trumpet riff over the
episode title card. Likewise, the intro for all Huck shorts was that
very jazzy drum-trumpet-trombone combo. Only the Quick Draw components
(and the odd Snagglepuss or Yakky short) reatained their original
theatrical-style credits done a la Famous/Paramount: distinct
instrumental theme, character posed under his name followed by credits
followed by title card. A quick reprise of the theme and stylized "The
End" over the same posed drawing of the character would always cap the
proceedings.
I was unaware that Huck had his own dedicated intro (an instrumental
approximation of "Oh, My Darlin'") and credit sequence until CN showed
a couple of his shorts that way. Turns out the familiar jazzy intro
was really his OUTRO. That's when I learned Harmon vet Charles Snows
was an early H-B writer.
The Pic-a-Nic Basket CD set me straight on a lot of misconceptions
based on how the early H-B series were presented after 1965:
-The Quick Draw outro as the Meeces' intro. CN revived several
dedicated Meece opening and closing jingles, and for one 1961/Curtin
short, theatrical-style credits as described above.
-(What was long considered) Huck's intro as Snagglepuss' intro.
-The Hokey outro, or occasionally that of Huck's or Yogi's, as Yakky's
or Hokey's intro.
From what I hear, USA used to show the pre-'62 shorts with their full,
proper credits in the eighties before Turner took over. Pity I didn't
have cable then!
Howard Fein
The WB shorts shown as the Saturday AM network package were always
'newer' than any WB shorts shown by syndication on local stations
weekdays. This might have been fostered by CBS and ABC having much
better prints of the films than the indies did- projection hairs,
spocket holes, shaking picture, static, et al. Of course, the oldest
short in the original 1968 network rotation (HOT CROSS BUNNY, 1948) is
actually twelve years OLDER than the newest short in the 1966-90
syndie rotation (MICE FOLLIES).
Another contributing factor to this belief was that all through the
seventies, New York's WNEW lumped ALL it's syndicated WB shorts (the
color AAPs later run into the ground by Turner, Korean-'colorized'
BWs, post-'48s) into the same half-hour slot. Hence, a Sniffles or
Clampett Porky could be immediately followed by a Speedy or
Daffy/Porky genre parody. As long as a cartoon was intro'd by rings
(as opposed to the cute keyboard/drum jingle and title card used by
CBS on Saturday AM), it was viewed as OLD.
I thought the Pink Panther and Inspector were created in 1969
specifically to be shown on NBC Saturday mornings. Likewise, the Ant
and Aardvark in 1971. Prior to this, I never went to movies that
showed cartoons before the feature, so was unaware of their existence.
It was quite jarring when, in 1973, I saw THE HEARTBREAK KID preceded
by a 1968 Panther short (The Panther was on hiatus from '71 to '74, so
UA must've been reissuing older ones) with full, theatrical-style
credits traditionally eschewed by the networks- and WITHOUT a laugh
track.
I thought the last Woody short was 1965's THREE LITTLE WOODPECKERS,
because for many years that was the latest one carried by local
stations and NBC. This package included very few post-'60 Woody
shorts, so I assumed his popularity was shrinking at the expense of
Chilly Willy, more of whose sixties' shorts were part of this package.
Based on that, Chilly's 'last' short was 1966's SOUTH POLE PALS. When
Maltin's book came out in 1980, that's when I discovered Lantz kept
making shorts until 1972, and that dozens of Woody and Chilly shorts
were never shown on TV- at least until 1982. For that matter, there
were quite a few Woodies made from 1956 thru '60 that had never been
on TV, either. I'd never heard of Inspector Willoughby or the Beary
Family at all.
(Interestingly, Lantz' style from 1964 to 1972 remained amazingly
consistent. Unlike with other studios- WB, DFE- there was no infusion
of H-B SFX. Walter Greene's jazzy underscore remained to the end, as
did the extremely busy Daws Butler. The only relevation to be found
was that Chilly was fully articulate after 1968, with Butler using the
same Elroy Jetson/Augie Doggie voice. In Chilly's 'latest' shorts
distributed prior to 1982- say, 1965-'66, he only spoke fragments a la
Senor Wences. "More flapjacks?" "Uh-huh.")
Similarly, I thought Tex Avery first started directing at MGM in 1948
because the longtime TV package of MGM theatricals (shown on CBS
1965-'72 and in syndication after 1977) only showed Avery shorts after
'48. While all Tom & Jerry shorts back to PUSS GETS THE BOOT were
included, Avery's older- and funnier- MGM shorts (WHO KILLED WHO,
LITTLE TINKER, BLITZ WOLF, BATTY BASEBALL, SLAPHAPPY LION, Screwy
Squirrel, George & Junior) went unseen in New York for many years. In
L.A. in 1980, I discovered some of these Avery pre-'48s on a local
station and laughed my head off. By that time, I had OD'ed on BAD LUCK
BLACKIE, THE CUCKOO CLOCK, SYMPHONY IN SLANG, DOGGONE TIRED and the
entire Droopy/Spike rivalry series, and these older shorts were a
breath of fresh air.
Due to editing by CBS and WPIX, I thought Avery, Hanna and Barbera
intentionally directed their films so that there would be quick cut
after a character encountered shoe polish, mud or an explosion. It
wasn't until I saw the same post '48 shorts in Buffalo and Rochester
that I discovered the truth. Funny, but those cities have large
minority populations-
I thought the supporting one-shot early sixties' Modern Madcap shorts
shown in the middle of ABC's NEW CASPER CARTOON SHOW featured
characters who had their own Harvey comic books that somehow weren't
available in my area.
I was amazed to learn the THE NEW H-B CARTOON SHOW, with Wally Gator,
Lippy Lion and Touche Turtle was produced in syndication concurrently
in 1962 with THE JETSONS on ABC in prime-time. THE JETSONS always
seemed like a MUCH newer series, what with its 'futuristic/sci-fi' SFX
Curtin score that proved very popular. Every comedic H-B series all
the way to 1967's ABBOTT & COSTELLO regularly used this underscore,
especially the ANT/SQUIRREL franchise. (However, H-B wouldn't use the
new SFX in other series until 1965-'66.) I always thought Wally and
company were made back in 1960 or '61. The animation style, character
design and strict adherence to Curtin's older scores created for Loopy
DeLoop, but used for all post-FLINTSTONES series, would bear this out.
This wasn't even H-B's last crack at funny animals- Magilla, Peter,
Atom and Secret were still down the pike. The only hint that these
cartoons were made as late as they were was Howard Morris guesting on
a Touche episode.
In 1967 I saw the flesh 'n blood Beatles interviewed on a TV show.
They weren't wearing blue suits. They had facial hair. John didn't
sound like Paul Frees imitating English comic Eric Blore. Ringo didn't
punctuate his every sentence with a throaty chuckle and the word
"yeah". What a trauma at age eight!!
In 1973 I saw the flesh 'n Harlem Globetrotters perform at the Garden.
There were no zany instant costume changes, no Pablo riding a tricycle
across court to snatch the ball, no lassoing the ball into the basket,
no Gip throwing Curly and ball into the basket, no Meadowlark using a
mask to scare the other player into throwing away the ball, not a
single H-B SFX heard- and worst of all, no funky, Motown-flavored
chase song! What a disappointment at age thirteen!!
You can scramble your feet all you want in preparation for running,
but NEVER is a loud, comical richochet sound heard when you finally do
take off.
You can wear a false nose and mustache, or black out a tooth, but
everyone will still know it's you.
The phone does not jump up and down on its receiver when ringing.
I thought that grotesque yellow ratlike creature with the horns and
scales who can only say "Peeeka" was actually NAMED Pokemon- and it
was phonetically pronounced "POKE-mon" with no long 'E' in the middle.
In summer 1999, when my son was three and a half and hadn't yet caught
Pokefever, I figured the fad would blow over before he'd be old enough
to be interested.
I was wrong again.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>Those retro Season 1 credits are far from
>complete. Credited Don Messick only was on one
>episode from that season ("Rooms To Let"). Frees,
>McNear and Nelson guested in at least one
>episode themselves ("The Baby Sitters", "Split
>Personality" and "Hot Piano" respectively), but
>they're omitted. With Season 2 credits long lost
>since their prime-time airings 40 years ago (thanks
>to their strong linkage with sponsor Winston), it's
>too bad Kress didn't incorporate all the credits from
>that season as well. As it is, CN sticks the retro
>credits after all Season 2 episodes. Herb Vigran,
>Sandra Gould, Walker Edminston, Elliott Field and
>other Season 2 guests go uncredited. If one didn't
>have the Internet or see the 1994 hardcover book
>devoted to the series, one would never know that
>familiar names associated with future seasons-
>Tony Benedict, Harvey Bullock, Herb Finn, Joanna
>Lee, Larry Markes, Jack Raymond- wrote early
>episodes. Warren Foster did many Season 1 and 2
>episodes, but not ALL of them.
Shame in many ways.
>Looks like the retro credits DID get the Season 1
>animator credits right. Too bad they didn't also
>extend them to include Season 2 animators as
>well. There are several episodes ("Impractical
>Jokers", "The House Guest", "Wilma's Vanishing
>Money") in which I just can't identify the animators.
>I can spot Muse, Vinci, Lundy, Patterson,
>Nicholas, Keil, Love et al without a problem
>(thanks to dedicated closing episode credits for
>Seasons 3-6 appearing in syndication through
>about 1991), but in the above episodes, the
>characters don't look or walk the way they do in
>later seasons. As an uneducated guess, I suspect
>Laverne Harding, Bob Bentley, Don Williams, C.L.
>Hartman are behind these, their names appearing
>in concurrent H-B shorts with theatrical-style
>credits: Quick Draw, Snoop & Blab the Doggies,
>Snagglepuss et al.
Many times you'd kinda wonder what has led to this change in coming up
with a cheaper subsitute for syndicating the series with the same credit
sequences anyway. If I thought it would've worked, there was always the
thought of doing one end credit sequence that would have all the names
of those responsible for a particular season together (sometimes
referred to as "gang credits").
BTW: for anyone's attention, I bring you as complete as possible, the
end credits to one of those Winston-era Flintstones episodes (sadly I
don't know which episode it is since I just have a clip of it from a
compilation of cigarette ads on tape)...
Produced & Directed by William Hanna & Joseph Barbera
Written by Larry Harkes
Story Director: Art Davis
Associate Producer: Alan Dinehart
Voices: Alan Reed Jean Vander Pyl John Stephenson Walker Edmiston
Music Director: Hoyt Curtin
Animation Director: Charles A. Nichols
Animation: John Boersema(?)
Production Supervision: Howard Hanson
Layout: Dick Bickenbach Lance Holley
Backgrounds: Montealegre
Titles: Lawrence Goble
Camera: Frank Paiker Norman Stainback Roy Wade Charles Flekal
Film Editing: Gret Watson Donald A. Douglas
The Flintstones c.1962 Hanna-Barbera Productions
A HANNA-BARBERA PRODUCTION
A SCREEN GEMS FILM PRESENTATION
Television Subsidiary: Columbia Pictures Corporation
This has been an ABC Television Network Presentation
There, I made a fool of myself once again! Still, someone might do a
Google search on this thread and fine this little entry that might be
worth it.
>Modern CN viewers must think that all Season 3
>episodes were written by Bullock and guested
>Howard Morris and Doug Young, with the credits
>from "Swedish Visitors" (which, BTW, Young is
>NOT heard in!) grafted on. Likewise, it appears
>that all post-childbirth episode were made in 1965,
>written by Finn/Dinhart and guest Messick and
>Harvey Korman ("How to Pick a Fight with Your
>Wife Without Trying.") And while CN HAS restored
>the classic 1962-3 JETSONS end sequence, it
>pulled the same trick, inserting the credits for "The
>Little Man".
Don't even get me started on providing the credits to "Astro the Flying
Dog"? No wait, I have time to kill!
Produced & Directed by William Hanna & Joseph Barbera
Written by Tony Benedict
Story Director: Alex Lovy
Associate Producer: Alex Lovy
Story Supervision: Arthur Pierson
Featuring the Voices of: George O'Hanlon (as George Jetsons) Penny
Singleton (as Jane Jetsons) Daws Butler (as Elroy) Janet Waldo (as
Judy)
Other Voices: Howard Morris Don Messick Mel Blanc
Animation Director: Charles A. Nichols
Animation: George Nichols George (?) Bill Keil
Production Supervision: Howard Hanson
Layout: Dick Brickenbach Jack Huber Iwao Takamoto Jerry Eisenburg(?)
Backgrounds: (unknown)
Camera: Frank Paiker Norman Stainback Roy Wade Charles Flekal
Film Editing: Warner Lieghton Greg Watson
The Jetsons c.1962 Hanna-Barbera Productions
A HANNA-BARBERA PRODUCTIONS
A SCREEN GEMS FILM PRESENTATION
Color by DeLuxe
This is what you get when you just happen to get a fair quality bootleg
of a Jetsons network print on tape.
>The theatricals GREASE and MANNEQUIN have
>animated opening title sequences that use H-B
>SFX.
I miss the days when they used to do that.
>At the very end of CADDYSHACK, the "gophaire"
>pops up out of his unscathed hole to a H-B
>"pa-loomp!"
To my mom, it wasn't Dangerfield and the rest of the country club crew
that made the movie what it is, it was that gopher! She just felt it
was all about the gopher than anything else.
>Total's identity crises can be attributed to the fact
>that in the sixties and seventies many indie
>stations would slot its shows next to, or with Ward
>shows. Dudley's syndicated package would stick a
>Bullwinkle's Corner right after Commander
>McBragg or Tooter ("Heeelp, Mr. Wizarrrd") Turtle.
Heh, I remember seeing this back in the days of UHF station airings of
these cartoons.
>The Pic-a-Nic Basket CD set me straight on a lot
>of misconceptions based on how the early H-B
>series were presented after 1965:
I enjoyed this box set too! Helped me out to relive that music again.
>-The Quick Draw outro as the Meeces' intro. CN
>revived several dedicated Meece opening and
>closing jingles, and for one 1961/Curtin short,
>theatrical-style credits as described above.
Still, nothing beats the tracks on the CDs that had the actual sponser
phrases in them too.
>-(What was long considered) Huck's intro as
>Snagglepuss' intro.
>-The Hokey outro, or occasionally that of Huck's or
>Yogi's, as Yakky's or Hokey's intro.
Thanks for the confusion!
>From what I hear, USA used to show the pre-'62
>shorts with their full, proper credits in the eighties
>before Turner took over. Pity I didn't have cable
>then!
Guess I'm glad I had cable since my parents had it since the 1970s.
It's true that USA aired it that way, but what they did was air the Yogi
Bear '61 show opening on a number of half-hours (minus the Kellogg's
ads, but still complete) and the end credit sequence (though without the
shot of Yogi's parachute opening up), on a number of times, the ending
was replaced oddly with the ending to Huckleberry Hound Show (which
looked quite decent over a recent airing CN used for it's Boomerang
airings). They didn't play the block quite the same way, as they
switched from the toons seen on Yogi Bear, to ones from Huckleberry
Hound, even throwing in Loopy de Loop and Magilla Gorilla cartoons into
the mix. Was the first time I saw the Loopy toons and noticed how the
music was also used in later Flintstones episodes as well.
Oddly, on recent Boomerang airings I've been watching, I noticed the
openings to the individual cartoons like Pixie & Dixie obtaining the
original credits for the particular cartoon (mostly I've been seeing
these used as filler after airing a particular cartoon, due to the
commercial-free nature of the network).
Domo Arigatoo Gozaimasu!
From the Master of Car-too-nal Knowledge...
Christopher M. Sobieniak
--"Fightin' the Frizzies since 1978"--
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>Other Misconceptions I Have Labored Under:
>The WB shorts shown as the Saturday AM network
>package were always 'newer' than any WB shorts
>shown by syndication on local stations weekdays.
Usually, this was due to the way WB had packaged it's cartoons. Ones
that they considered of some favoritism were used for network TV, and
the rest were used for TV station syndication.
>This might have been fostered by CBS and ABC
>having much better prints of the films than the
>indies did- projection hairs, spocket holes, shaking
>picture, static, et al.
In the case of the networks, they had their films printed on 35mm
prints, while the indie-stations had to make due with the smaller 16mm
format.
Still, networks were proned to the usual problems that are caused by
wear and tear of their films. The old videos my mom taped of the Bugs
Bunny/Road Runner Show in the early '80s kinda show some of the things
that occurred in time, namely splices, faded colors as well as an
occasional film slippage that results in a flicker in the audio.
Surprised I even managed to watch these at all as a kid.
>Another contributing factor to this belief was that
>all through the seventies, New York's WNEW
>lumped ALL it's syndicated WB shorts (the color
>AAPs later run into the ground by Turner,
>Korean-'colorized' BWs, post-'48s) into the same
>half-hour slot. Hence, a Sniffles or Clampett Porky
>could be immediately followed by a Speedy or
>Daffy/Porky genre parody. As long as a cartoon
>was intro'd by rings (as opposed to the cute
>keyboard/drum jingle and title card used by CBS
>on Saturday AM), it was viewed as OLD.
Heh, wished I had a station that did that!
When you brought up about Woody Woodpecker, I can't help but try to
remember where I first saw these toons. Been so long!
>Due to editing by CBS and WPIX, I thought Avery,
>Hanna and Barbera intentionally directed their
>films so that there would be quick cut after a
>character encountered shoe polish, mud or an
>explosion. It wasn't until I saw the same post '48
>shorts in Buffalo and Rochester that I discovered
>the truth. Funny, but those cities have large
>minority populations-
Hah, and I was exposed to this much earlier in my town (Toledo) and we
have a good number of minorites otherwise. I miss the old uncut days!
>I thought the supporting one-shot early sixties'
>Modern Madcap shorts shown in the middle of
>ABC's NEW CASPER CARTOON SHOW featured
>characters who had their own Harvey comic books
>that somehow weren't available in my area.
Heh, obviously Harvey didn't figure these things out in time!
>In 1967 I saw the flesh 'n blood Beatles
>interviewed on a TV show. They weren't wearing
>blue suits.
By that point, the '64 counterparts had all but faded away!
>They had facial hair. John didn't sound like Paul
>Frees imitating English comic Eric Blore. Ringo
>didn't punctuate his every sentence with a throaty
>chuckle and the word "yeah". What a trauma at
>age eight!!
The truth hurts!
>In 1973 I saw the flesh 'n Harlem Globetrotters
>perform at the Garden. There were no zany instant
>costume changes, no Pablo riding a tricycle across
>court to snatch the ball, no lassoing the ball into
>the basket, no Gip throwing Curly and ball into the
>basket, no Meadowlark using a mask to scare the
>other player into throwing away the ball, not a
>single H-B SFX heard- and worst of all, no funky,
>Motown-flavored chase song! What a
>disappointment at age thirteen!!
Still, I never did find them too credible to be doing those things
anyway!
>You can scramble your feet all you want in
>preparation for running, but NEVER is a loud,
>comical richochet sound heard when you finally do
>take off.
Would scare away the neighbors!
>You can wear a false nose and mustache, or black
>out a tooth, but everyone will still know it's you.
I had better luck wearing something different!
>The phone does not jump up and down on its
>receiver when ringing.
Though I saw that happen once, also witnessing a TV blowing up in front
of me!
>I thought that grotesque yellow ratlike creature
>with the horns and scales who can only say
>"Peeeka" was actually NAMED Pokemon- and it
>was phonetically pronounced "POKE-mon" with no
>long 'E' in the middle. In summer 1999, when my
>son was three and a half and hadn't yet caught
>Pokefever, I figured the fad would blow over
>before he'd be old enough to be interested.
>I was wrong again.
If you were an "otaku" then yes!
I have a friend who's so into Kiddo Senshi Gundam: 0079, he actually
wishes he was Char Anzable (already has a proper uniform)! I wish I was
Kentaro from "Golden Boy" and I'd be traveling on my bike across
America, trying my best to help out, but my perversion never stops!
Howard Fein
> BTW: for anyone's attention, I bring you as complete as possible, the
> end credits to one of those Winston-era Flintstones episodes (sadly I
> don't know which episode it is since I just have a clip of it from a
> compilation of cigarette ads on tape)...
>
> Produced & Directed by William Hanna & Joseph Barbera
> Written by Larry Harkes
> Story Director: Art Davis
> Associate Producer: Alan Dinehart
> Voices: Alan Reed Jean Vander Pyl John Stephenson Walker Edmiston
> Music Director: Hoyt Curtin
> Animation Director: Charles A. Nichols
> Animation: John Boersema(?)
> Production Supervision: Howard Hanson
> Layout: Dick Bickenbach Lance Holley
> Backgrounds: Montealegre
> Titles: Lawrence Goble
> Camera: Frank Paiker Norman Stainback Roy Wade Charles Flekal
> Film Editing: Gret Watson Donald A. Douglas
> The Flintstones c.1962 Hanna-Barbera Productions
> A HANNA-BARBERA PRODUCTION
> A SCREEN GEMS FILM PRESENTATION
> Television Subsidiary: Columbia Pictures Corporation
> This has been an ABC Television Network Presentation
That would be the credits for "This is Your Lifesaver", the only
episode to feature Walker Edminston (later famous as voice in several
Kroft series) as conman Montague Gypsum, a Jerry Colonna characature.
For years, I thought that was John Stephenson. The 1994 hardcover book
on the series listed all the lost Season 1 and 2 voice and writer
credits. Larry Markes wrote several Season 2 episodes ("The Missing
Bus"; "Divided We Sail"; "Take Me Out of the Ballgame") noted for
their emphasis on witty, sitcomesque dialogue over animated slapstick.
Not to be confused with Laurence Marks (GRIFFITH, HOGAN, M*A*S*H),
Markes did a couple of original JETSONS, including the pilot, and
showed up in the seventies in the credits of CHICO AND THE MAN, GOOD
TIMES and others.
Over the years I thought Emil Carle was animator for that episode, as
he is credited in several Season 3 (the first to have correct episode
credits- at least through 1991) episodes where I had deduced his
character animation as similar to Muse, but somewhat less extreme. The
same animation is used in many Season 2 episodes, including this one.
I'd never even heard of John Boersma until his name showed up in the
opening credits of later Augie and Snoop/Blab episodes, (Thankfully,
CN retained the FULL credits for each of their shorts when they took
the characters' rights from Worldvision in 1994- unlike the truncated
Quick Draw and Yakky Doodle credits) and I noted how similar the
animation was to what I had long believed was Carle's. Guess I'd been
barking up the wrong tree.
Not likely to happen, but I'd love to see a model sheet showing how
the characters look as drawn by each animator- especially the ones who
only animated a few episodes within one season. That would include Ray
Patterson, Grant Simmons, Larry Silverman, John Gentelella, Barney
Posner, Casey Onatis-
> Don't even get me started on providing the credits to "Astro the Flying
> Dog"? No wait, I have time to kill!
> Produced & Directed by William Hanna & Joseph Barbera
> Written by Tony Benedict
> Story Director: Alex Lovy
> Associate Producer: Alex Lovy
> Story Supervision: Arthur Pierson
> Featuring the Voices of: George O'Hanlon (as George Jetsons) Penny
> Singleton (as Jane Jetsons) Daws Butler (as Elroy) Janet Waldo (as
> Judy)
> Other Voices: Howard Morris Don Messick Mel Blanc
> Animation Director: Charles A. Nichols
> Animation: George Nichols George (?) Bill Keil
> Production Supervision: Howard Hanson
> Layout: Dick Brickenbach Jack Huber Iwao Takamoto Jerry Eisenburg(?)
> Backgrounds: (unknown)
> Camera: Frank Paiker Norman Stainback Roy Wade Charles Flekal
> Film Editing: Warner Lieghton Greg Watson
> The Jetsons c.1962 Hanna-Barbera Productions
> A HANNA-BARBERA PRODUCTIONS
> A SCREEN GEMS FILM PRESENTATION
> Color by DeLuxe
>
> This is what you get when you just happen to get a fair quality bootleg
> of a Jetsons network print on tape.
Luckily, NBC kept rerunning the Classic 24 episodes, with the proper
credits, until 1983. The 1985 (episodes horribly trimmed down)
syndicated package had an eighties-style episode title card including
that episode's writer, and 'gang' end credits (over various stills of
the characters drawn 1985-style) that seemed to correctly list all the
voices in order of prominence: after the base four, it was Messick
first, Blanc second of course! and animators for the Classic 24. It's
wonderful to see "Jane! Stop this crazy thing!" at the end for the
first time since '83, but we know darn well every episode was not
written by Benedict, or guested Messick and Blanc.
BTW, this episode is called "Astro's Top Secret". The other George is
Goepper. Throughout the series, he, Keil and Nicholas were always
teamed up together. The other major JETSON teamings were
Hatchock/Muse, Fraser/Vinci and Lusk/Ray Patterson/Simmons/Spence.
>
At the very end of CADDYSHACK, the "gophaire"
> >pops up out of his unscathed hole to a H-B
> >"pa-loomp!"
>
> To my mom, it wasn't Dangerfield and the rest of the country club crew
> that made the movie what it is, it was that gopher! She just felt it
> was all about the gopher than anything else.
With advances in digital animation since 1980, the gophaire looks
hilariously primitive today. Of all of Bill Murray's movies, this one
seems to have the most quotes favored by his cultists- even more than
STRIPES or GHOSTBUSTERS.
> >-(What was long considered) Huck's intro as
> >Snagglepuss' intro.
> >-The Hokey outro, or occasionally that of Huck's or
> >Yogi's, as Yakky's or Hokey's intro.
>
> Thanks for the confusion!
There, you SEE how confusing it is? I don't even know what I'm TALKING
about!!
> It's true that USA aired it that way, but what they did was air the Yogi
> Bear '61 show opening on a number of half-hours (minus the Kellogg's
> ads, but still complete) and the end credit sequence (though without the
> shot of Yogi's parachute opening up), on a number of times, the ending
> was replaced oddly with the ending to Huckleberry Hound Show (which
> looked quite decent over a recent airing CN used for it's Boomerang
> airings). They didn't play the block quite the same way, as they
> switched from the toons seen on Yogi Bear, to ones from Huckleberry
> Hound, even throwing in Loopy de Loop and Magilla Gorilla cartoons into
> the mix. Was the first time I saw the Loopy toons and noticed how the
> music was also used in later Flintstones episodes as well.
The only time I caught a USA showing was in a hotel before I had cable
at home. They used the 'Huck at the circus' closing- the one where
he's driving Yakky and the meeces around the ring in a funny car. This
must've been animated- or retraced- in 1965 for the syndicated version
that run well into the seventies, because the 1965-'73 Screen Gems end
logo (BEWITCHED, MONKEES, PARTRIDGE, DON'T EAT THE DAISIES) would
always appear. H-B was, after all, a Columbia subsidiary through the
end of the '66 season.
> Oddly, on recent Boomerang airings I've been watching, I noticed the
> openings to the individual cartoons like Pixie & Dixie obtaining the
> original credits for the particular cartoon (mostly I've been seeing
> these used as filler after airing a particular cartoon, due to the
> commercial-free nature of the network).
>
Boy, what I wouldn't DO to get Boomerang, which is now availble in
NYC. But for whatever the reason, my building can't accomodate digital
TV-or so I'm told. Management seems to think a satellite dish is
necessary.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:>.lawson.webtv.net>...
Huge Flintstones credit bit snipped!
>That would be the credits for "This is Your
>Lifesaver", the only episode to feature Walker
>Edminston (later famous as voice in several Kroft
>series) as conman Montague Gypsum, a Jerry
>Colonna characature.
Thanks for letting me know. The tape I found this on only showed the
"Rise & Shine" opening w/Winston plug, the commercial itself, and the
end credits. I do have a full Flintstones episode on tape I could've
listed, but the credits are so unwatchable due to the poor quality of
the recording.
>For years, I thought that was John Stephenson.
>The 1994 hardcover book on the series listed all
>the lost Season 1 and 2 voice and writer credits.
Amazing when you finally find out about these things. Have to look for
that book too if possible.
>Larry Markes wrote several Season 2 episodes
>("The Missing Bus"; "Divided We Sail"; "Take Me
>Out of the Ballgame") noted for their emphasis on
>witty, sitcomesque dialogue over animated
>slapstick. Not to be confused with Laurence Marks
>(GRIFFITH, HOGAN, M*A*S*H), Markes did a
>couple of original JETSONS, including the pilot,
>and showed up in the seventies in the credits of
>CHICO AND THE MAN, GOOD TIMES and
>others.
Dy-no-mite!
>Over the years I thought Emil Carle was animator
>for that episode, as he is credited in several
>Season 3 (the first to have correct episode credits-
>at least through 1991) episodes where I had
>deduced his character animation as similar to
>Muse, but somewhat less extreme. The same
>animation is used in many Season 2 episodes,
>including this one. I'd never even heard of John
>Boersma until his name showed up in the opening
>credits of later Augie and Snoop/Blab episodes,
I really need to pay more attention to these animators closely then.
>(Thankfully, CN retained the FULL credits for each
>of their shorts when they took the characters' rights
>from Worldvision in 1994- unlike the truncated
>Quick Draw and Yakky Doodle credits)
>and I noted how similar the animation was to what
>I had long believed was Carle's. Guess I'd been
>barking up the wrong tree.
Didn't think WorldVision still had these by then, would've thought all
of the H-B properties were already owned by Turner by this point.
WorldVision and H-B was both owned by Taft Broadcasting up till the late
'80s. WorldVision would be sold to Spelling Entertainment, later a
division of Blockbuster Entertainment, which is now Viacom property.
Really amazing how these things happen.
>Not likely to happen, but I'd love to see a model
>sheet showing how the characters look as drawn
>by each animator- especially the ones who only
>animated a few episodes within one season. That
>would include Ray Patterson, Grant Simmons,
>Larry Silverman, John Gentelella, Barney Posner,
>Casey Onatis-
Would be impossible in that case, unless you were to take every animated
drawing you could try to scourage from eBay and other circles and cut &
paste (at least digitally) them into such a model sheet series in this
case.
I personally started to noticed this while watching a number of Loopy de
Loop toons on Boomerang. Each animator seem to have drawn the character
so different from one another, it's so noticable.
>Luckily, NBC kept rerunning the Classic 24
>episodes, with the proper credits, until 1983.
Surprised this is a faded memory in my mind.
>The 1985 (episodes horribly trimmed down)
>syndicated package had an eighties-style episode
>title card including that episode's writer, and 'gang'
>end credits (over various stills of the characters
>drawn 1985-style) that seemed to correctly list all
>the voices in order of prominence: after the base
>four, it was Messick first, Blanc second of course!
>and animators for the Classic 24. It's wonderful to
>see "Jane! Stop this crazy thing!" at the end for
>the first time since '83, but we know darn well
>every episode was not written by Benedict, or
>guested Messick and Blanc.
This was what I had to put up with for most of the '80s, oddly, I even
had to watch an out-of-town station through an indoor antenna since
there wasn't any station in my town that even had The Jetsons on. Kinda
regret it due to the updated episodes also thrown in.
Shame ABC never green-lighted a second season or thrid, or else we
could've had the show on weekday syndication instead of this mess.
>BTW, this episode is called "Astro's Top Secret".
>The other George is Goepper. Throughout the
>series, he, Keil and Nicholas were always teamed
>up together.
Thanks for the corrections (it was Geo. Goepper). Hard to really tell
since the quality of the tape I have this on reminded me too much of
what it must looked like to watch this off a B&W TV back 40 years ago.
The credits were so foggy it was hard to make them out totally (wish is
why I couldn't list the background artists in this case).
>The other major JETSON teamings were
>Hatchock/Muse, Fraser/Vinci and Lusk/Ray
>Patterson/Simmons/Spence.
Do you know of any episodes off-hand I should look out for these teams?
>With advances in digital animation since 1980, the
>gophaire looks hilariously primitive today.
Especially since it's just some guy underneath the ground with a hand up
the puppet's behind!
Recently, a friend told me Yoga will be CGI-ed for Episode Two, and I
just couldn't believe they would let Frank Oz's hands cool off.
>Of all of
>Bill Murray's movies, this one seems to have the
>most quotes favored by his cultists- even more
>than STRIPES or GHOSTBUSTERS.
Who knows, just one of those coincidences.
>>Thanks for the confusion!
>There, you SEE how confusing it is? I don't even
>know what I'm TALKING about!!
Sorry for bringing that up.
>The only time I caught a USA showing was in a
>hotel before I had cable at home.
Heh, reminds me of the time I saw HBO, Discovery Channel and perhaps
Playboy in a motel before those channels popped up on my dial!
>They used the 'Huck at the circus' closing- the one
>where he's driving Yakky and the meeces around
>the ring in a funny car.
I've seen this, I think he also picked up Hokey Wolf too.
>This must've been animated- or retraced- in 1965
>for the syndicated version that run well into the
>seventies, because the 1965-'73 Screen Gems end
>logo (BEWITCHED, MONKEES, PARTRIDGE,
>DON'T EAT THE DAISIES) would always appear.
>H-B was, after all, a Columbia subsidiary through
>the end of the '66 season.
I know a bit about that. A friend of mine once let me borrow an episode
of the Flintstones from one of it's later seasons on 16mm, and it amazed
me to see a Screen Gems stinger at the end, it was the one with the
multi-color lines and riveting orchestral score. Wish I made a telecine
of that.
>Boy, what I wouldn't DO to get Boomerang, which
>is now availble in NYC. But for whatever the
>reason, my building can't accomodate digital TV-or
>so I'm told. Management seems to think a satellite
>dish is necessary.
Hah, reminds me of a friend of mine in Toronto who had to live in an
apartment that could only get analog cable for a limited number of
channels. He's a bit upset he can't partake in the 400 or so digital
channels that have been signed into law by the CRTC.
I have to envy him as he got to grow up on a C-Band satellite system his
parents had, so he got to see a lot more than I did... Networks I
haven't seen before, networks that only stayed on for a brief while,
networks I wouldn't get till later (Univision, HBO, etc), as well as
"wild feeds" of programs for network and syndication runs, and a lot of
things hardly know to anyone at all.
Howard Fein
> On Tue, May 14, 2002, 5:41am (EDT-3), hf...@nycboe.net (Howard?Fein)
> wrote:
> >chrism...@webtv.net (Chris Sobieniak) wrote in
> >message
> >news:<21283-3C...@storefull-2392.publi
> >.lawson.webtv.net>...
>
> >the lost Season 1 and 2 voice and writer credits.
>
> Amazing when you finally find out about these things. Have to look for
> that book too if possible.
You might have a bit of trouble finding it. "A Page Right Out of
History" had a very short shelf life. It was probably published in
late 1993 to coincide with the upcoming live-action Universal
FLINTSTONES feature. I saw it in bookstores a couple of times in early
1994, but it was too expensive- over $20. In 1999, I found a good copy
in a Tower Records sale annex for $8.99 and snapped it up. Typical of
most TV show-based books (and websites), there's the backstory; the
'making of'; biographies of the cast; and episode guide. That's where
I discovered the long-lost story and guest voice credits for Seasons 1
and 2.
>
> >Larry Markes wrote several Season 2 episodes
> >("The Missing Bus"; "Divided We Sail"; "Take Me
> >Out of the Ballgame") noted for their emphasis on
> >witty, sitcomesque dialogue over animated
> >slapstick. Not to be confused with Laurence Marks
> >(GRIFFITH, HOGAN, M*A*S*H), Markes did a
> >couple of original JETSONS, including the pilot,
> >and showed up in the seventies in the credits of
> >CHICO AND THE MAN, GOOD TIMES and
> >others.
>
> Dy-no-mite!
Funny how many writers for the sixties' prime-time H-B cartoons also
wrote for sitcoms at the same time, or years later. Harvey Bullock
wrote for THE FLINTSTONES, JETSONS and GRIFFITH all at the same time;
Bullock later was a producer on ALICE. Bill Idelson, who wrote a few
later FLINTSTONES, did GRIFFITH and VAN DYKE concurrently; his name
would turn up years later in the credits of LOVE AMERICAN STYLE, THE
ODD COUPLE, HAPPY DAYS and M*A*S*H. Herb Finn, whose HONEYMOONERS work
was a model for the 'STONES in the first place, also wrote for the two
Schwartz kitchfests, GILLIGAN and BRADY. Joanna Lee, probably the
biggest contributor other than Foster, went on to create THE WALTONS
and did numerous dead-serious TV movies, the likes of which are rerun
staples on Lifetime. A real workhorse, Rick Mittleman, only did two
'STONES, but was credited with, among others, VAN DYKE, GOMER PYLE,
BEWITCHED, GET SMART, THE COUPLE, M*A*S*H, KOTTER, ONE DAY AT A TIME,
WHAT'S HAPPENING and REMINGTON STEELE (!).
Just goes to show that the H-B ABC prime time shows were as much
adult-oriented sitcoms as kiddie cartoons, especially before 1963.
Seasons 1 and 2, and the entire TOP CAT series, devote equal time to
snappy dialogue AND animated mayhem. The post-childbirth seasons rely
much more heavily on the latter.
> Didn't think WorldVision still had these by then, would've thought all
> of the H-B properties were already owned by Turner by this point.
> WorldVision and H-B was both owned by Taft Broadcasting up till the late
> '80s. WorldVision would be sold to Spelling Entertainment, later a
> division of Blockbuster Entertainment, which is now Viacom property.
> Really amazing how these things happen.
When CN began in October '92, Turner did NOT have the rights to all
H-B characters. I didn't get cable till a year later, but noticed that
the following series were missing: Ruff 'n Reddy, Snoop & Blab, the
Doggies (even though parent segment Quick Draw was present), Lippy &
Hardy, Touche (again, showmate Wally Gator was present), Richochet
Rabbit (the only missing element of the Gorilla/Potamus franchise),
SINBAD JR, SPACE KIDETTES, LAUREL & HARDY, ABBOTT & COSTELLO, SAMSON &
GOLIATH, GULLIVER, the BANANA SPLITS package, the original
GLOBETROTTERS, MUMBLY, CAPTAIN CAVEMAN, several C.B. BEARS segments,
and a whole slew of single-season-on-Saturday-AM seventies' shows. And
hard as it is to believe, Scooby-Doo was NOT in the lineup either-
although spinoffs DYNOMUTT and A PUP NAMED- were. CN carried many more
eighties' H-B series (SHIRT TALES, SNORKS, KWIKKY KOALA, TROLLKINS,
PAW PAWS, POUND PUPPIES, ED GRIMLEY) from its inception than
seventies' product- it even had most of the Ruby-Spears inventory-
except the SUPERCADE segments, where ownership issues no doubt kept
Donkey Kong, Q-bert and company off the air.
As one might expect, any H-B show adapted from a prime-time sitcom
(ADDAMS, JEANNIE, PATRIDGES 2200, FONZ, LAVERNE & SHIRLEY) was also
missing. TV Land, another network I can't get, did get aired on a
Saturday AM rerun package along with the classic 1970-71 Globetrotter
series. How is it that CN couldn't show this gem, but could show the
deplorable 1979 sequel series in which the 'Trotters were yet another
set of bumbling bionic superheroes?!
Everything on the list up to Ricochet were still being shown on the
Family Channel through summer 1994, after which CN picked them up.
Legalities may have kept all the shows based on old literary
characters, comedians and basketball players unavailable, although of
late Boomerang has been showing Gulliver and live action/cartoon
hybrid Huck Finn. Strange, because CN seemed to carry the Robonic
Stooges since day one. I even faintly remember noticing a lack of Yogi
shorts at first (still on Nick in '93?), although the numerous
spinoffs aired.
In summer '95, just when the World Premiere Toons started their
insidious infiltration, CN belatedly began weekly stripping of some
previously missing one-season shows alluded to above (ROMAN HOLIDAYS,
INCH HIGH, WHEELIE). Conversely, other such shows (HAIR BEAR BUNCH,
SEALAB 2020, BUTCH CASSIDY, THESE ARE THE DAYS) were shown from the
beginning. So there seems to be little logic in the Turner shop as to
what could or couldn't air.
BTW, all Scooby series remained with USA until October '94 when CN,
amidst much fanfare, picked him up.
> >This must've been animated- or retraced- in 1965
> >for the syndicated version that run well into the
> >seventies, because the 1965-'73 Screen Gems end
> >logo (BEWITCHED, MONKEES, PARTRIDGE,
> >DON'T EAT THE DAISIES) would always appear.
> >H-B was, after all, a Columbia subsidiary through
> >the end of the '66 season.
>
> I know a bit about that. A friend of mine once let me borrow an episode
> of the Flintstones from one of it's later seasons on 16mm, and it amazed
> me to see a Screen Gems stinger at the end, it was the one with the
> multi-color lines and riveting orchestral score. Wish I made a telecine
> of that.
That would be the 'sticks' Screen Gems end logo, which was used from
1963 through '65. It also capped off the first season of BEWITCHED,
JONNY QUEST and the MAGILLA package syndicated in the seventies. The
last season of the 'STONES and the syndicated HUCK package bore the
later SG logo in which the lines curved around a large circle to
keyboard accompaniment. That's the one most people remember due to the
extremely successful syndication of BEWITCHED, JEANNIE, MONKEES,
PATRIDGES et al.
T.Groan
"Howard Fein" <hf...@nycboe.net> wrote in message
news:239c4fa3.02051...@posting.google.com...
>
> Funny how many writers for the sixties' prime-time H-B cartoons also
> wrote for sitcoms at the same time, or years later. Harvey Bullock
> wrote for THE FLINTSTONES, JETSONS and GRIFFITH all at the same time;
> Bullock later was a producer on ALICE.
He also had a Batman character named for him! Harv's usual partner was Ray
Allen (aka R.S. Allen or R. Allen Saffian).
Bill Idelson, who wrote a few
> later FLINTSTONES, did GRIFFITH and VAN DYKE concurrently; his name
> would turn up years later in the credits of LOVE AMERICAN STYLE, THE
> ODD COUPLE, HAPPY DAYS and M*A*S*H.
Usually partnered with Sam Bobrick. (They also wrote for "That Girl.")
Joanna Lee, probably the
> biggest contributor other than Foster, went on to create THE WALTONS
> and did numerous dead-serious TV movies, the likes of which are rerun
> staples on Lifetime.
And she also played one of the aliens in "Plan 9 from Outer Space"! Betcha
that's not on her resume!
A real workhorse, Rick Mittleman, only did two
> 'STONES, but was credited with, among others, VAN DYKE, GOMER PYLE,
> BEWITCHED, GET SMART, THE COUPLE, M*A*S*H, KOTTER, ONE DAY AT A TIME,
> WHAT'S HAPPENING and REMINGTON STEELE (!).
I recall seeing Mittleman's name on a "Sanford & Son" episode. He wrote and
produced a short-lived sitcom, "When the Whistle Blows."
> > ... A friend of mine once let me borrow an episode
> > of the Flintstones from one of it's later seasons on 16mm, and it amazed
> > me to see a Screen Gems stinger at the end, it was the one with the
> > multi-color lines and riveting orchestral score. Wish I made a telecine
> > of that.
>
> That would be the 'sticks' Screen Gems end logo, which was used from
> 1963 through '65. It also capped off the first season of BEWITCHED,
> JONNY QUEST and the MAGILLA package syndicated in the seventies.
The "Dancing Sticks" SG logo had the jazzy fanfare by Frank DeVol, and
usually an announcement by Colin Male.
The
> last season of the 'STONES and the syndicated HUCK package bore the
> later SG logo in which the lines curved around a large circle to
> keyboard accompaniment.
Or as the gang at the Closing Logo Group (at Yahoo Groups) calls it, the "S
From Hell," due to the creepy proto-synth music by Eric Siday.
Steve Carras
>From: "T.Groan" gr...@planttel.net
>Date: 5/15/02 10:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ue6hig9...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>
>"Howard Fein" <hf...@nycboe.net> wrote in message
>news:239c4fa3.02051...@posting.google.com...
>>
>> Funny how many writers for the sixties' prime-time H-B cartoons also
>> wrote for sitcoms at the same time, or years later. Harvey Bullock
>> wrote for THE FLINTSTONES, JETSONS and GRIFFITH all at the same time;
>> Bullock later was a producer on ALICE.
>
>He also had a Batman character named for him! Harv's usual partner was Ray
>Allen (aka R.S. Allen or R. Allen Saffian).
>
> Bill Idelson, who wrote a few
>> later FLINTSTONES, did GRIFFITH and VAN DYKE concurrently; his name
>> would turn up years later in the credits of LOVE AMERICAN STYLE, THE
>> ODD COUPLE, HAPPY DAYS and M*A*S*H.
>
>Usually partnered with Sam Bobrick. (They also wrote for "That Girl.")
>
> Joanna Lee, probably the
>> biggest contributor other than Foster, went on to create THE WALTONS
>> and did numerous dead-serious TV movies, the likes of which are rerun
>> staples on Lifetime.
>
>And she also played one of the aliens in "Plan 9 from Outer Space"! Betcha
>that's not on her resume!
>
Besides FLINSTONES Joanna Lee's other comedic credits: GILLIGAN, BRADY, and
others too numerous to mention. She was said to have retired to due to age
discrimination;wrote her memoors (I've seen her picture and she was hot!-this
was after she had retired).
Funny, pardon the pun that those "Lifetime" type movies and Walton's writer was
the source of these immortal words (Bea "Betty" Benederet) on FLINSTONES:
"We're justa coupla little ole ladies from Pasadenarock"("Surprise
Party",1963).
BTW PLEASE DONT EAT THE DAISES was wrongly I'd as a Screen Gems show. It's by
MGM.:)
===========================================================
"All right, whoever did this thinks we are dead, right? All right then, we'll
BE dead".-The Professor (Gilligan's Island: GHOST A GO-GO, 1966)
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>You might have a bit of trouble finding it. "A Page
>Right Out of History" had a very short shelf life. It
>was probably published in late 1993 to coincide
>with the upcoming live-action Universal
>FLINTSTONES feature.
Figures!
>I saw it in bookstores a couple of times in early
>1994, but it was too expensive- over $20. In 1999,
>I found a good copy in a Tower Records sale
>annex for $8.99 and snapped it up. Typical of most
>TV show-based books (and websites), there's the
>backstory; the 'making of'; biographies of the cast;
>and episode guide. That's where I discovered the
>long-lost story and guest voice credits for Seasons
>1 and 2.
Still, sounds like a book to look for. Sometimes I can get lucky by
coincidence. Once I picked up Shamus Culhane's animation book for a
buck at a used book sale at a nearby mall, still quite unused and it was
a surprise I was able to get it easy enough. Also picked up the
original Fantasia theatrical program book, the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics
souviner book, and an Asterix comicbook (hardly find any of these in my
town, besides the library). Could've picked up a few more, but didn't
have enough left, but picking up some old high school/college yearbooks
from 80 years ago could've been worth it.
>Just goes to show that the H-B ABC prime time
>shows were as much adult-oriented sitcoms as
>kiddie cartoons, especially before 1963. Seasons 1
>and 2, and the entire TOP CAT series, devote
>equal time to snappy dialogue AND animated
>mayhem. The post-childbirth seasons rely much
>more heavily on the latter.
Pretty much what led to the series dying a slow death by the time Gazoo
popped in the last season.
>When CN began in October '92, Turner did NOT
>have the rights to all H-B characters. I didn't get
>cable till a year later, but noticed that the following
>series were missing: Ruff 'n Reddy, Snoop & Blab,
>the Doggies (even though parent segment Quick
>Draw was present), Lippy & Hardy, Touche (again,
>showmate Wally Gator was present), Richochet
>Rabbit (the only missing element of the
>Gorilla/Potamus franchise), SINBAD JR, SPACE
>KIDETTES, LAUREL & HARDY, ABBOTT &
>COSTELLO, SAMSON & GOLIATH, GULLIVER,
>the BANANA SPLITS package, the original
>GLOBETROTTERS, MUMBLY, CAPTAIN
>CAVEMAN, several C.B. BEARS segments, and a
>whole slew of single-season-on-Saturday-AM
>seventies' shows.
You're right about that. Quite possibly they were where not owned
percisly by Turner or whose licenses were still not expired.
>And hard as it is to believe, Scooby-Doo was NOT
>in the lineup either- although spinoffs DYNOMUTT
>and A PUP NAMED- were. CN carried many more
>eighties' H-B series (SHIRT TALES, SNORKS,
>KWIKKY KOALA, TROLLKINS, PAW PAWS,
>POUND PUPPIES, ED GRIMLEY) from its
>inception than seventies' product-
Kinda noticed that too, though I'm surprised they aren't playing
Trollkins anymore.
>it even had most of the Ruby-Spears inventory-
>except the SUPERCADE segments, where
>ownership issues no doubt kept Donkey Kong,
>Q-bert and company off the air.
That might be the reason. Many of the rights to the original video game
creations have changed hands since the early '80s. Though in the case
of games like Frogger, the rights were originally handled though a US
licensee at the time. In the early days many of the popular video games
out there were created by Japanese companies like Namco, Konami, Sega,
etc. Because they had yet to manufacture and distribute their own games
outside Japan, many companies would license their games to US companies
like Stern Electronics, Bally/Midway and Atari Corp., who would remove
any signs of the games originality, leading us to believe these games
were theirs.
In the case of Frogger, it's creator, Konami, Co., Ltd., had licensed
the game to Sega to distribute in the US. Other Konami games like
"Amidar", "Scramble" and "Gyruss" went to Stern. Namco Ltd. did the
same thing with it's popular Pac-Man and Galaxian (Bally/Midway) with
Dig Dug and Pole Position going to Atari as well.
Activision still owns "Pitfall", while Nintendo still has it's games as
well. In the case of Q-Bert, there' has been several companies that
owned it after it's inception. I think the current owners are
Infogrammes, S.A.
Oddly, the only show that seem to be saved out of the original Supercade
is "Space Ace", which used to be seen on CN's "Super Adventures" block,
and is currently appearing on Boomerang's "Boomeraction" block. I know
a guy who told me he has bought 16mm copies of the Space Ace episodes
that were from this show, and asked me if I would like a video copy of
them. Can't tell if I want them or not.
Pac-Man, the Hanna-Barbera series also seems to have been saved
somewhere, though the best we've got for a while is the Xmas special
popping up on CN once or twice a year, and a brief appearance of an
episode on Boomerang.
Oddly, a bit of news I've heard of is that Boomerang will be showing the
other Ruby-Spears video game-turned-cartoon series, "Dragon's Lair" next
month, too bad they haven't done so with Pac-Man. Though also on the
spot is "Mr. T" and "Chuck Norris's Karate Kommandos". Guess NBC didn't
own Mr. T after all!
>As one might expect, any H-B show adapted from
>a prime-time sitcom (ADDAMS, JEANNIE,
>PATRIDGES 2200, FONZ, LAVERNE &
>SHIRLEY) was also missing. TV Land, another
>network I can't get, did get aired on a Saturday AM
>rerun package along with the classic 1970-71
>Globetrotter series. How is it that CN couldn't
>show this gem, but could show the deplorable
>1979 sequel series in which the 'Trotters were yet
>another set of bumbling bionic superheroes?!
I can answer this! Basically, most of these shows were originally
created for the movie/tv studios that had the rights to the original
live-action series. Both FONZ and LAVERNE & SHIRLEY were produced for
Paramount Pictures. I assume THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY 2200 A.D. was for
Columbia Pictures, along with JEANNIE as well (which almost confuses me
since the familiar Babu would also make an appearance on Scooby-Doo
Movies as well as Laff-A-Lympics, so don't get me started on this! I'm
only surprised I never noticed Mark Hamill did a voice on Jeannie
already).
In the case of the Harlem Globetrotters, the original '70 series was
produced for CBS. Which would eventually be shelfed in it's film
division, later becoming Viacom, consider it perfect irony that Viacom
now is the owner of CBS! Hanna-Barbera had the rights to the later
"Super Globetrotters" series.
After watching the original opening to "Partridge Family 2200 A.D." I
can only question "why?". In the time it too H-B to do this, they
could've done a '70s updated version of The Jetsons instead!
>Everything on the list up to Ricochet were still
>being shown on the Family Channel through
>summer 1994, after which CN picked them up.
>Legalities may have kept all the shows based on
>old literary characters, comedians and basketball
>players unavailable, although of late Boomerang
>has been showing Gulliver and live action/cartoon
>hybrid Huck Finn. Strange, because CN seemed to
>carry the Robonic Stooges since day one. I even
>faintly remember noticing a lack of Yogi shorts at
>first (still on Nick in '93?), although the numerous
>spinoffs aired.
I remember that, though I first got Cartoon Network in around January,
1, 1994 (easy date huh?). Surprised when I saw that the Robonic Stooges
were aired on the Skatebirds series.
>In summer '95, just when the World Premiere
>Toons started their insidious infiltration, CN
>belatedly began weekly stripping of some
>previously missing one-season shows alluded to
>above (ROMAN HOLIDAYS, INCH HIGH,
>WHEELIE). Conversely, other such shows (HAIR
>BEAR BUNCH, SEALAB 2020, BUTCH
>CASSIDY, THESE ARE THE DAYS) were shown
>from the beginning. So there seems to be little
>logic in the Turner shop as to what could or
>couldn't air.
Was surprised when "Wait Til Your Father Gets Home" was taken off.
Still another rarity, thank goodness CN doesn't play "The Gary Coleman
Show" anymore!
>BTW, all Scooby series remained with USA until
>October '94 when CN, amidst much fanfare, picked
>him up.
Too bad USA went to hell a few years later!
>That would be the 'sticks' Screen Gems end logo,
>which was used from 1963 through '65. It also
>capped off the first season of BEWITCHED,
>JONNY QUEST and the MAGILLA package
>syndicated in the seventies.
Guess I was lucky to see it then! Though I had to watch it off a
projector screen projected on the side of the refridgerator door. ^_^
>The last season of the 'STONES and the
>syndicated HUCK package bore the later SG logo
>in which the lines curved around a large circle to
>keyboard accompaniment. That's the one most
>people remember due to the extremely successful
>syndication of BEWITCHED, JEANNIE,
>MONKEES, PATRIDGES et al.
Too bad I hardly got to see the "S from Hell" much in the '80s.
Oddly, there's a company that still uses that logo and namesake, though
it seems unrelated to the Columbia Pictures TV subsidary we've all come
to know of...
FYI: for anyone interested in classic video games and to find out more
on re-living the lost youth at the arcade, click here!
http://www.classicgaming.com/
Howard Fein
> Still, sounds like a book to look for. Sometimes I can get lucky by
> coincidence. Once I picked up Shamus Culhane's animation book for a
> buck at a used book sale at a nearby mall, still quite unused and it was
> a surprise I was able to get it easy enough. Also picked up the
> original Fantasia theatrical program book, the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics
> souviner book, and an Asterix comicbook (hardly find any of these in my
> town, besides the library). Could've picked up a few more, but didn't
> have enough left, but picking up some old high school/college yearbooks
> from 80 years ago could've been worth it.
Speaking of books, a 1996 book by Hanna and Barbera, "A Cast of
Friends" has been re-released in the last year or so, possibly due to
Hanna's passing. Unfortunately, the book is rather dated, having been
written before the studio's formal demise. It's also very slender on
content, with very little inside stuff we wouldn't have already
learned from the Web- although there is an interesting section devoted
to Avery's two years at the studio preceding his (slow, painful due to
cancer) death in 1980.
>
> >And hard as it is to believe, Scooby-Doo was NOT
> >in the lineup either- although spinoffs DYNOMUTT
> >and A PUP NAMED- were. CN carried many more
> >eighties' H-B series (SHIRT TALES, SNORKS,
> >KWIKKY KOALA, TROLLKINS, PAW PAWS,
> >POUND PUPPIES, ED GRIMLEY) from its
> >inception than seventies' product-
>
Pac-Man, the Hanna-Barbera series also seems to have been saved
> somewhere, though the best we've got for a while is the Xmas special
> popping up on CN once or twice a year, and a brief appearance of an
> episode on Boomerang.
CN did show a couple PAC-MAN half-hours as part of its 1994-'95 "Look
What We Found" umbrella that spotlighted on a monthly basis other
short-lived series that hadn't yet aired on CN (ROMAN HOLIDAYS, CASPER
& ANGELS, DRAGON'S LAIR, SUPER GLOBETROTTERS, the cult classic
WILDFIRE), and even MISTER T, which was a three-season flash in the
pan on NBC, 1983-'86. Unfortunately, there were no further CN airings
of the PAC-MAN series, which surprisingly ended up being one of my
favorite series of the eighties due to clever scripts, neat
synthesized Curtin score and the 'humanization' of the title character
into an imperfect family man and reluctant hero. But the fact that CN
aired it at all proves there are no legal issues with Bally.
>
> >As one might expect, any H-B show adapted from
> >a prime-time sitcom (ADDAMS, JEANNIE,
> >PATRIDGES 2200, FONZ, LAVERNE &
> >SHIRLEY) was also missing. TV Land, another
> >network I can't get, did get aired on a Saturday AM
> >rerun package along with the classic 1970-71
> >Globetrotter series. How is it that CN couldn't
> >show this gem, but could show the deplorable
> >1979 sequel series in which the 'Trotters were yet
> >another set of bumbling bionic superheroes?!
>
> I can answer this! Basically, most of these shows were originally
> created for the movie/tv studios that had the rights to the original
> live-action series. Both FONZ and LAVERNE & SHIRLEY were produced for
> Paramount Pictures. I assume THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY 2200 A.D. was for
> Columbia Pictures, along with JEANNIE as well (which almost confuses me
> since the familiar Babu would also make an appearance on Scooby-Doo
> Movies as well as Laff-A-Lympics, so don't get me started on this! I'm
> only surprised I never noticed Mark Hamill did a voice on Jeannie
> already).
Babu was a pure H-B creation, so it was okay for him to appear on
LAFF-A-LYMPICS. A few reference books mistakently list Jeannie as a
member of the Scoobie-Doobies. In fact, the three JOSIE fall guys-
Melody, Alex and his early-Goth sister- were also supposed to be on
L-A-L to the point where they appeared in ABC's print ad (shown in TV
GUIDE and the Sunday comics) for the Fall 1977 Saturday AM premieres.
A dispute with Radio Comics (who had given H-B its blessing to create
two Josie series earlier in the seventies) changed all THAT.
The SCOOBY movies that guested verboten characters Jeannie and the
"Famous" Globetrotters were, of course, aired on CN. Back in '94 when
CN reclaimed the entire DOO franchise from USA, the episodes with
Batman and Robin (whose rights CN wouldn't get until the 1997
Warner/Turner merger) aired as well. CN probably didn't want to omit a
few episodes from the rerun cycle of a major series because of
ownership issues- a whole series, yes.
I think Boomerang IS showing GOOBER- Partridge kids and all.
> In the case of the Harlem Globetrotters, the original '70 series was
> produced for CBS. Which would eventually be shelfed in it's film
> division, later becoming Viacom, consider it perfect irony that Viacom
> now is the owner of CBS! Hanna-Barbera had the rights to the later
> "Super Globetrotters" series.
While the original 1970-'71 GLOBETROTTERS premiered on CBS (I think
there's a mention of Columbia Systems in tiny print under the opening
title card), ten out of its 23 episodes were brought back midseason
1977-'78 on NBC as part of a makeshift anthology GO GO GLOBETROTTERS
that reran a motley combination of HERCULOID, SPACE GHOST and
MOTORMOUSE episodes (from 1966, '67 and '69 respectively) with that
season's C.B. BEARS. This menagerie replaced a flood of failed series
that had premiered on NBC that previous fall. This was in the
pre-SMURF days when NBC was the weak sister of Saturday AM and every
year reruns of THE JETSONS, JONNY QUEST and HONG KONG PHOOEY would
appear midseason to replace numerous cancelled D'Angelo/Bullock
series.
Of course, the 1979 SUPER 'TROTTERS, which apparently was not
sanctioned by team owner Saperstein (?) aired on NBC. By then Fred
Silverman was running the network, and he probably wanted something
that would duplicate the success of the original CBS' 'TROTTERS and
ABC's DYNOMUTT which were programmed when he ran those respective
networks. Needless to say, that didn't do it.
> >BTW, all Scooby series remained with USA until
> >October '94 when CN, amidst much fanfare, picked
> >him up.
>
> Too bad USA went to hell a few years later!
USA continued to show many non H-B series after Turner took them over.
Well into the mid-nineties I remember seeing various Terrytoons, Lantz
and more recent series from smaller studios (TURTLES, BIONIC SIX, HULK
HOGAN) on it.
Howard Fein
> On Tue, May 14, 2002, 5:41am (EDT-3), hf...@nycboe.net (Howard?Fein)
> wrote:
> >chrism...@webtv.net (Chris Sobieniak) wrote in
> >message
> >news:<21283-3C...@storefull-2392.publi
> >.lawson.webtv.net>...
>
> >The other George is Goepper. Throughout the
> >series, he, Keil and Nicholas were always teamed
> >up together.
>
> Thanks for the corrections (it was Geo. Goepper). Hard to really tell
> since the quality of the tape I have this on reminded me too much of
> what it must looked like to watch this off a B&W TV back 40 years ago.
> The credits were so foggy it was hard to make them out totally (wish is
> why I couldn't list the background artists in this case).
>
> >The other major JETSON teamings were
> >Hatchock/Muse, Fraser/Vinci and Lusk/Ray
> >Patterson/Simmons/Spence.
>
> Do you know of any episodes off-hand I should look out for these teams?
The breakdown for animators of the classic 24 JETSONS episodes are:
LUSK/PATTERSON/SIMMONS/SPENCE:
"Rosie the Robot"
"Elroy's TV Show"
"Las Venus"
HATCHCOCK/MUSE:
"A Date With Jet Screamer" (plus Vinci)
"The Good Little Scouts" (plus Don Patterson)
"Rosie's Boyfriend" (plus Don Patterson)
"A Visit from Grandpa"
"Test Pilot"
"Jane's Driving Lesson"
"Private Property" (plus some or all of the
Lusk/Patterson/Simmons/Spence crew)
"TV Or Not TV"
FRASER/VINCI:
"The Coming Of Astro" (plus Dick Lundy)
"Uniblab" (plus Lundy)
"Elroy's Pal" (plus Ed Aardal)
"The Little Man" (plus Lundy)
"Miss Solar System"
"Elroy's Mob"
GOEPPER/KEIL/NICHOLAS:
"The Flying Suit" (plus Aardal)
"Astro's Top Secret"
"Millionaire Astro"
"G.I. Jetson"
"Dude Planet"
Two early episodes didn't follow any established pattern. "Jetson's
Night Out" teamed Aardal, Keil, Muse and Nicholas; "The Space Car"
teamed Goepper, Harry Holt and Vinci.
Other H-B series episodes from the sixties often teamed Hatchock and
Muse (FLINTSTONES, LOOPY DE LOOP, TOP CAT, SECRET SQUIRREL, AUTOCAT &
MOTORMOUSE, DASTARDLY & MUTTLEY). Fraser and Vinci were teamed on many
'STONES.
The 1985 JETSONS were mostly animated overseas, but in a couple of the
early ones ("Solar Snoops", "Fantasy Planet"), Ken Muse's animation is
still recognizable. Muse also worked on that season's 13 GHOSTS,
PAW-PAWS and SMURFS before he apparently retired.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>Speaking of books, a 1996 book by Hanna and
>Barbera, "A Cast of Friends" has been re-released
>in the last year or so, possibly due to Hanna's
>passing. Unfortunately, the book is rather dated,
>having been written before the studio's formal
>demise.
Still saddens me to this day that it ever happened.
>It's also very slender on content, with very
>little inside stuff we wouldn't have already learned
>from the Web- although there is an interesting
>section devoted to Avery's two years at the studio
>preceding his (slow, painful due to cancer) death in
>1980.
If he could've kicked in a few more years, he probably would've had a
bigger say in what H-B should've done, instead of what they did with the
Smurfs thoughout the '80s. But who knows.
>CN did show a couple PAC-MAN half-hours as
>part of its 1994-'95 "Look What We Found"
>umbrella that spotlighted on a monthly basis other
>short-lived series that hadn't yet aired on CN
>(ROMAN HOLIDAYS, CASPER & ANGELS,
>DRAGON'S LAIR, SUPER GLOBETROTTERS,
>the cult classic WILDFIRE), and even MISTER T,
>which was a three-season flash in the pan on
>NBC, 1983-'86.
Also where I first head of The Gary Coleman Show, untill some dip at CN
thought it was a neat idea to play that saturday nights some years back.
>Unfortunately, there were no further CN airings of
>the PAC-MAN series, which surprisingly ended up
>being one of my favorite series of the eighties due
>to clever scripts, neat synthesized Curtin score and
>the 'humanization' of the title character into an
>imperfect family man and reluctant hero.
I thought it was moderately good. Namco even put out a video game based
on the cartoon in '84 called "Pac-Land" also uses Curtin's familiar
theme for the background music.
>But the fact that CN aired it at all proves there are
>no legal issues with Bally.
Especially since Bally lost the rights to Pac-Man by the late '80s, as
well as it's interest in video games as well, Midway is it's own company
these days. The rights to Pac-Man are currently owned by Namco
themselves.
FYI: Before Namco went to Bally/Midway to license Pac-Man to the US in
'80, the game was originally called "Puck Man", which was later changed
to it's familiar name due to Midway's concerns about kids substituting
an "F" for a "P" calling it something else!
>Babu was a pure H-B creation, so it was okay for
>him to appear on LAFF-A-LYMPICS. A few
>reference books mistakently list Jeannie as a
>member of the Scoobie-Doobies. In fact, the three
>JOSIE fall guys- Melody, Alex and his early-Goth
>sister- were also supposed to be on L-A-L to the
>point where they appeared in ABC's print ad
>(shown in TV GUIDE and the Sunday comics) for
>the Fall 1977 Saturday AM premieres. A dispute
>with Radio Comics (who had given H-B its
>blessing to create two Josie series earlier in the
>seventies) changed all THAT.
Kinda surprised to hear this. Must've been a lot of mistakes in really
knowing who was in the show at all.
I think Radio Comics was a name that Archie Comics used for copyrighting
Josie & The Pussycats.
>The SCOOBY movies that guested verboten
>characters Jeannie and the "Famous" Globetrotters
>were, of course, aired on CN. Back in '94 when
>CN reclaimed the entire DOO franchise from USA,
>the episodes with Batman and Robin (whose rights
>CN wouldn't get until the 1997 Warner/Turner
>merger) aired as well. CN probably didn't want to
>omit a few episodes from the rerun cycle of a
>major series because of ownership issues- a whole
>series, yes.
Probably. In the end, it's funny how the same network owns most of what
came out of H-B, Warner Bros. and Turner's library anyway, and how they
can mix and match through them, like doing those shows on Adult Swim
(can't wait for the Aquaman show!).
>I think Boomerang IS showing GOOBER-
>Partridge kids and all.
Haven't seen the Partridge show though.
>While the original 1970-'71 GLOBETROTTERS
>premiered on CBS (I think there's a mention of
>Columbia Systems in tiny print under the opening
>title card), ten out of its 23 episodes were brought
>back midseason 1977-'78 on NBC as part of a
>makeshift anthology GO GO GLOBETROTTERS
>that reran a motley combination of HERCULOID,
>SPACE GHOST and MOTORMOUSE episodes
>(from 1966, '67 and '69 respectively) with that
>season's C.B. BEARS.
I assume NBC probably had to deal with Viacom to get the Globetrotters
series otherwise. They would do the same when they reran The Alvin Show
sometime in the late '70s.
>This menagerie replaced a flood of failed series
>that had premiered on NBC that previous fall. This
>was in the pre-SMURF days when NBC was the
>weak sister of Saturday AM and every year reruns
>of THE JETSONS, JONNY QUEST and HONG
>KONG PHOOEY would appear midseason to
>replace numerous cancelled D'Angelo/Bullock
>series.
Seemed like they just weren't trying to hard. Makes me wonder what
different did it make once they got to air the "Krofft Superstars Hour"
for the 1978-79 season? By then they were just smeared with all these
sci-fi based cartoons like Yogi's Space Race, Godzilla, and anything
else I can't remember.
>Of course, the 1979 SUPER 'TROTTERS, which
>apparently was not sanctioned by team owner
>Saperstein (?) aired on NBC.
He must've hated it!
>By then Fred
>Silverman was running the network, and he
>probably wanted something that would duplicate
>the success of the original CBS' 'TROTTERS and
>ABC's DYNOMUTT which were programmed when
>he ran those respective networks. Needless to say,
>that didn't do it.
And it would go downhill once he picked up his first Smurf doll at an
Aspen gift shop. That would change everything! If that didn't happen,
Smurfs would still be a European phenomenum.
>USA continued to show many non H-B series after
>Turner took them over. Well into the mid-nineties I
>remember seeing various Terrytoons, Lantz and
>more recent series from smaller studios
>(TURTLES, BIONIC SIX, HULK HOGAN) on it.
Probably one of the few mentionable include the ABC Sonic The Hedgehog
series that became a cult fav from the fans, as well as Sailor Moon (the
DIC English version most fans would like to forget).
In the case of Terrytoons, I remember them playing them for a short
while too, the Lantz cartoons were from the '87 syndicated series
Universal put together for Program Exchange that wasn't nearly complete,
removing the credits to each cartoon and giving us a "gang credits"
closing instead. CN also played this too.
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:
>The breakdown for animators of the classic 24
>JETSONS episodes are:
>LUSK/PATTERSON/SIMMONS/SPENCE:
>"Rosie the Robot"
>"Elroy's TV Show"
>"Las Venus"
Of the three, I enjoyed "Las Venus" the most. The animation seemed
great through the end.
>HATCHCOCK/MUSE:
>"A Date With Jet Screamer" (plus Vinci)
>"The Good Little Scouts" (plus Don Patterson)
>"Rosie's Boyfriend" (plus Don Patterson)
"A Visit from Grandpa"
One of my favorites too, though I wonder what led H-B to add in that
updated Curtin cue right at the end of the episode for the '80s
syndicated package? Just didn't feel right at all.
>"Test Pilot"
>"Jane's Driving Lesson"
>"Private Property" (plus some or all of the
Lusk/Patterson/Simmons/Spence crew)
Another favortire. Love how the writing was in this one. Wish Jetson
trying to outwit Spacely with that contract, then getting himself into
more hot water than he thought!
>"TV Or Not TV"
>
>FRASER/VINCI:
>"The Coming Of Astro" (plus Dick Lundy)
>"Uniblab" (plus Lundy)
>"Elroy's Pal" (plus Ed Aardal)
>"The Little Man" (plus Lundy)
>"Miss Solar System"
>"Elroy's Mob"
Elroy's Mob is another one of those I really enjoyed, especially for the
complexity of the writing.
>GOEPPER/KEIL/NICHOLAS:
>"The Flying Suit" (plus Aardal)
I think this was the only episode H-B had with the laugh track that got
used for the '80s syndicated package as well. When a friend of mine
watched the Jetsons from a recent CN airing, he could not get over the
laugh tracks at all, having seen the series without them in the past.
>"Astro's Top Secret"
>"Millionaire Astro"
If I ever get a dog, I'm maning him "Tralfaz"!
>"G.I. Jetson"
>"Dude Planet"
>Two early episodes didn't follow any established
>pattern. "Jetson's Night Out" teamed Aardal, Keil,
>Muse and Nicholas; "The Space Car" teamed
>Goepper, Harry Holt and Vinci.
I always did find "Jetson's Night Out" another classic. Oddly, I think
it was one of the only times Spacely was designed with blue sleeves over
the white ones he normally has in the series, also I think the only time
in the Classic 24 to have George fired right at the end of the episode
(aside from the other times he has fired or quit in the series, most
times he's other back or is just about to go though it again, like
"Astro's Top Secret"). Just loved how well the pacing was in this.
>Other H-B series episodes from the sixties often
>teamed Hatchock and Muse (FLINTSTONES,
>LOOPY DE LOOP, TOP CAT, SECRET
>SQUIRREL, AUTOCAT & MOTORMOUSE,
>DASTARDLY & MUTTLEY). Fraser and Vinci were
>teamed on many 'STONES.
Thanks for the note.
>The 1985 JETSONS were mostly animated
>overseas, but in a couple of the early ones ("Solar
>Snoops", "Fantasy Planet"), Ken Muse's animation
>is still recognizable.
I think what it was is that the first number of episodes produced were
originaly done in the traditional ink & paint for the first set of
episodes in '85 (probably the classic 24 and a few more to even the
package out for that year), then there was another set of episodes that
were churned out in '86, which were done with the use of Digital Ink &
Paint, which was still quite primitive for any studio to use, H-B was
one of the first to use the technology for that time. Those episodes
mostly listed US animators as well, but might've had some Asian studio
working on them too. It was also the series that Spumco's John
Kricfalushi had to work on as well, and hated it! Then there was
another set of episodes produced in '87 that were done in Japan by Toei
Animation Co., Ltd. Never thought they'd be doing this.
>Muse also worked on that season's 13 GHOSTS,
>PAW-PAWS and SMURFS before he apparently
>retired.
Probably got too tired of putting up with the crap H-B was doing by that
point. ^_^
G&L
Howard Fein wrote:
> .
>
> Speaking of books, a 1996 book by Hanna and Barbera, "A Cast of
> Friends" has been re-released in the last year or so, possibly due to
> Hanna's passing. Unfortunately, the book is rather dated, having been
> written before the studio's formal demise. It's also very slender on
> content, with very little inside stuff we wouldn't have already
> learned from the Web- although there is an interesting section devoted
> to Avery's two years at the studio preceding his (slow, painful due to
> cancer) death in 1980.
Wm Hanna was obviously a sweet guy but my comment on the book? Zzzzzzz.......
The best book on HB so far imo is The flintstone one earlier in this thread.
Ted Sennet's book The Art Of HB makes the disney published coffee table books seem like critical essays. Alot of late publicity
drawings and stills, little to no rough artwork also. I would love to see more Joe Barbera's storyboards. Like many older boards
they aren't so "idiot proofed" as today boards and are wonderfully rough.
I highly reccommend the recent Blast articles on Ed Benedict too.
Gerard
Howard Fein
> On Fri, May 17, 2002, 8:06am (EDT-3), hf...@nycboe.net (Howard?Fein)
> wrote:
>
> >LUSK/PATTERSON/SIMMONS/SPENCE:
> >"Rosie the Robot"
> >"Elroy's TV Show"
> >"Las Venus"
>
> Of the three, I enjoyed "Las Venus" the most. The animation seemed
> great through the end.
Yes, it seemed that this quartet of animators had a fluid style not
seen in other H-B cartoon of that era. It doesn`t look like any of
them worked on the FLINTSTONES- except for Patterson and Simmons on
Season 5`s ^Pebbles`s Birthday Party^. Spence and Patterson were
mainstays of H-B`s unit at MGM; Spence and Simmons also worked on
Avery`s unit.
>
> >HATCHCOCK/MUSE:
> "A Visit from Grandpa"
>
> One of my favorites too, though I wonder what led H-B to add in that
> updated Curtin cue right at the end of the episode for the '80s
> syndicated package? Just didn't feel right at all.
It seemed that for the 1985 syndie package, two minutes had to be cut
from each of the Classic 24. Usually the cuts were interspersed
throughout the episodes where there were lines or routines considered
extraneous to the action. Â Visit From Grandpa^ was very plot-heavy,
so they couldn`t cut much in the midst of the episode without losing
key plot points. So they cut off the original ending: the
long-suffering motorcycle cop stopping Grandpa yet again, and then
sending him on his way, admitting he`s a nice old coot, after all.
>
> >"Private Property"
>
> Another favortire. Love how the writing was in this one.
> >"Elroy's Mob"
>
> Elroy's Mob is another one of those I really enjoyed, especially for the
> complexity of the writing.
Both episodes were written by Barry Blitzer, who cut his teeth writing
BILKO, a series designed as a showcase for Phil Silvers `elaborate
scheming. So it stands to reason the scripts would be more complex.
Blitzer also wrote for TOP CAT, which of course was based on BILKO.
(Although you`d never know it by the `gang credits`that have been in
place since at least 1973, giving Kin Platt the sole writing credit
for the entire TOP CAT series!!)
In high school, we`d get a huge laugh out of Cogswell`s plea to
Spacely: ^But it`s only SIX INCHES!
>
>
> >"The Flying Suit" (plus Aardal)
>
> I think this was the only episode H-B had with the laugh track that got
> used for the '80s syndicated package as well. When a friend of mine
> watched the Jetsons from a recent CN airing, he could not get over the
> laugh tracks at all, having seen the series without them in the past.
But they still remembered to cut two minutes off the episode! BTW,
it`s strange how the laugh track for ^The Flying Suit^ sounds much
OLDER than early 1962-63. There are times you hear laughs from the
early years of THE FLINTSTONES, DENNIS THE MENACE, GRIFFITH, MISTER ED
and other sitcoms circa 1960-`61. This may be off-topic, but I don`t
know any newsgroup devoted to the Glenn Glenn laugh track- something
else that I have a strange fascintation for.
>
> If I ever get a dog, I'm maning him "Tralfaz"!
Ralfaz! Yuck!
>
> >"G.I. Jetson"
> >"Dude Planet"
> >Two early episodes didn't follow any established
> >pattern. "Jetson's Night Out" teamed Aardal, Keil,
> >Muse and Nicholas; "The Space Car" teamed
> >Goepper, Harry Holt and Vinci.
>
> I always did find "Jetson's Night Out" another classic.
Another very plot-heavy episode full of twists and turns, courtesy of
GRIFFITH vet Harvey Bullock. Giving the football player robots Polish
names was probably no big deal in 1962, but it sure seems shocking
now!
>
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:>awson.webtv.net>...
>>The animation seemed great through the end.
>Yes, it seemed that this quartet of animators had a
>fluid style not seen in other H-B cartoon of that
>era. It doesn`t look like any of them worked on the
>FLINTSTONES- except for Patterson and
>Simmons on Season 5`s ^Pebbles`s Birthday
>Party^. Spence and Patterson were mainstays of
>H-B`s unit at MGM; Spence and Simmons also
>worked on Avery`s unit.
Perhaps it was the fact that H-B had a good number of MGM alumnis on
hand that led to such work on these episodes. Last night, they had a
marathon of Jetsons episodes on Boomerang, and I never noticed how well
"Rosey the Robot" was done before I've read your posts. If this was the
pilot of the series, it sure turned out pretty great!
>>>"A Visit from Grandpa"
>It seemed that for the 1985 syndie package, two
>minutes had to be cut from each of the Classic 24.
>Usually the cuts were interspersed throughout the
>episodes where there were lines or routines
>considered extraneous to the action.
Watching the newly restored versions seen on CN/Boomerang, it's
surprising to see a lot of these little 2 minute bits otherwise new to
me. Whether it's the female bait to get Astro to tell his secret to
Cogswell ("Astro's Top Secret), to George teaching Astro how to hunt in
"TV or not TV", or perhaps Elroy taking the stand in "Millionaire
Astro", it's great to finally see these again. I only wish they
wouldn't keep the '85 syndie titles though, just makes it a bit obvious
otherwise, at least we get the writer's credits for each episode this
way. then relying on what comes up in the end credits!
>Â Visit From Grandpa^ was very plot-heavy, so
>they couldn`t cut much in the midst of the episode
>without losing key plot points. So they cut off the
>original ending: the long-suffering motorcycle cop
>stopping Grandpa yet again, and then sending him
>on his way, admitting he`s a nice old coot, after
>all.
Damn, I wish I saw this!
>>Elroy's Mob is another one of those I really
>>enjoyed, especially for the complexity of the
>>writing.
>Both episodes were written by Barry Blitzer, who
>cut his teeth writing BILKO, a series designed as a
>showcase for Phil Silvers `elaborate scheming. So
>it stands to reason the scripts would be more
>complex.
You don't get writing like that anymore.
>Blitzer also wrote for TOP CAT, which of course
>was based on BILKO. (Although you`d never know
>it by the `gang credits`that have been in place
>since at least 1973, giving Kin Platt the sole'
>writing credit for the entire TOP CAT series!!)
Another series I wish they could've done a better job there. Never
noticed how hacked up the opening was when used on an old '80s video I
once saw.
>In high school, we`d get a huge laugh out of
>Cogswell`s plea to Spacely: ^But it`s only SIX
>INCHES!
Surprised you bought that up (as if the competition between Spacely and
Cogswell wasn't heated enough)!
Everyone always has that sick sense of opinions about this show. Once I
heard a wav file someone did where they took the theme song and added
some sexual foreplay and other sfx to really heighten the moment.
Then there's my weird idea for a funny anime music video. Taking the
Jetsons theme and sync it to clips from Neon Genesis Evangelion. I just
toyed around a bit on it, and I'm afraid to say it works perfect!
The theme always gets in such a way I find so powerful. Such
frightening tones.
>>"The Flying Suit" (plus Aardal)
>>I think this was the only episode H-B had with the
>>laugh track that got used for the '80s syndicated
>>package as well. When a friend of mine watched
>>the Jetsons from a recent CN airing, he could not
>>get over the laugh tracks at all, having seen the
>>series without them in the past.
>But they still remembered to cut two minutes off
>the episode!
Thanks for putting me back into place!
>BTW, it`s strange how the laugh track for ^The
>Flying Suit^ sounds much OLDER than early
>1962-63.
Surprised I didn't notice too well, now that they've pretty much added
laugh tracks to most of the episodes on CN (though a few still are the
syndic edits I see like "Rosey the Robot").
>There are times you hear laughs from the early
>years of THE FLINTSTONES, DENNIS THE
>MENACE, GRIFFITH, MISTER ED and other
>sitcoms circa 1960-`61. This may be off-topic, but I
>don`t know any newsgroup devoted to the Glenn
>Glenn laugh track- something else that I have a
>strange fascintation for.
Heh, I was more than surprised to see Glen Glenn Sound mentioned for
their involvement in doing the sound for "Manos, the Hands of Fate"!
>>If I ever get a dog, I'm maning him "Tralfaz"!
>Ralfaz! Yuck!
Heh, this episode should've won an Emmy!
>>I always did find "Jetson's Night Out" another
>>classic.
>Another very plot-heavy episode full of twists and
>turns, courtesy of GRIFFITH vet Harvey Bullock.
Just when you thought Spacely and Jetson covered their butts with that
little hack job, their wives still demanded accessories! Probably also
one of the first times an "answering machine" was used in a cartoon!
"Hi honey, how nice it is for you to call, I'll be having to work later
than I thought (skip) work later than I thought (skip) work later than I
thought (skip) work later than I thought (skip) work later..."
>Giving the football player robots Polish names was
>probably no big deal in 1962, but it sure seems
>shocking now!
Seem like a standard stereotype of football players having those kinds
of names back then.
"Brimlivitch,
Svatchaholen,
Brimlivitch,
Svatchaholen,
Brimlivitch,
Svatchaholen...
CRASH!"
Never realize the kind of things that sometimes got brought up in this
show...
(from "Rosey the Robot")
JANE: "The teacher said you're going on a field trip this morning.
ELROY: "That's right mom, we're studying the Siberian salt mines."
JANE: "Well keep warm, and don't pick fights with the lil' Russian
boys! Good bye! And don't leave your golashis(sp?) in Europe again!"
Have to say, the animation in "Rosey the Robot" sure does seem way
different from the usual episodes. Patterson, Simmons and Spence sure
did a great job on this one too, even for being the first for them.
Then there's Elroy's eskimo friend Willy in "Elroy's Pal" (at least he
looked like one).
If they went more daring, they could've tried adding in a black
character for an episode, perhaps that could've set the Civil Rights
Movement in the right direction!
Howard Fein
> On Fri, May 17, 2002, 7:48am (EDT-3), hf...@nycboe.net (Howard?Fein)
> wrote:
> >This menagerie replaced a flood of failed series
> >that had premiered on NBC that previous fall. This
> >was in the pre-SMURF days when NBC was the
> >weak sister of Saturday AM and every year reruns
> >of THE JETSONS, JONNY QUEST and HONG
> >KONG PHOOEY would appear midseason to
> >replace numerous cancelled D'Angelo/Bullock
> >series.
>
> Seemed like they just weren't trying to hard. Makes me wonder what
> different did it make once they got to air the "Krofft Superstars Hour"
> for the 1978-79 season? By then they were just smeared with all these
> sci-fi based cartoons like Yogi's Space Race, Godzilla, and anything
> else I can't remember.
SPACE RACE was probably NBC's answer to the huge success of
LAFF-A-LYMPICS on ABC (and possibly the syndicated revival of WACKY
RACES). It was very strange to see new Yogi material on two competing
networks in the same season. The title segment disappeared by November
1978 and the remaining ones- Buford, Galloping Ghost and Galaxy
Goof-ups were repackaged in separate half-hours for the rest of the
season. The Goof-ups were actually included in 1988's syndicated Yogi
revival, along with new Yogi shorts and 1973's GANG.
GODZILLA was actually a big success at the time for NBC- new episodes
were produced for 1979 (a whole 13 episodes), and I think, 1980 (just
6 or 8 new).
> >By then Fred
> >Silverman was running the network, and he
> >probably wanted something that would duplicate
> >the success of the original CBS' 'TROTTERS and
> >ABC's DYNOMUTT which were programmed when
> >he ran those respective networks. Needless to say,
> >that didn't do it.
>
> And it would go downhill once he picked up his first Smurf doll at an
> Aspen gift shop. That would change everything! If that didn't happen,
> Smurfs would still be a European phenomenum.
Whether you love or hate the Smurfs (I fall into the latter camp),
they really did reverse NBC's fortunes. All through the sixties and
seventies, as mentioned, NBC was the weak sister of Saturday AM.
Granted, they did have some successes. SECRET/ATOM, BANANA SPLITS,
EMERGENCY PLUS FOUR, STAR TREK, RUN JOE RUN, SIGMUND and LAND OF THE
LOST all met the unofficial definition of Saturday AM 'hit': they had
second seasons- or more- of originals. Reruns of DFE threatricals
lasted for nine seasons. But any NBC successes of that era are somehow
less remembered than those hit shows identified with ABC (SUPER
FRIENDS, LAFF-A-LYMPICS, JACKSON 5IVE, BRADY KIDS, latter SCOOBY-DOO,
DYNOMUTT, KROFFT SUPERSHOW, PLASTIC MAN) or CBS (ARCHIES, early
SCOOBY-DOO, JOSIE, GLOBETROTTERS, PEBBLES & BAMM BAMM, FAT ALBERT,
SHAZAM, TARZAN, POPEYE).
Once the SMURFS came, NBC had their fair share of hits through the
eighties: SPIDERMAN, SHIRT TALES, CHIPMUNKS, MISTER T, SNORKS, PUNKY
BREWSTER, KIDD VIDEO, FOOFUR, ALF, KISSYFUR. Granted, there were the
usual share of one-season-and-out shows, but you have to remember that
during the sixties and seventies, ABC and CBS would rerun many series
for additional seasons WITHOUT ordering any new originals. So a lot of
shows long regarded as successes- SPACE GHOST, FANTASTIC FOUR, GEORGE
OF THE JUNGLE, WACKY RACES and spinoffs, CATTANOOGA CATS, GROOVIE
GHOULIES, JEANNIE, SPEED BUGGY, HONG KONG PHOOEY, JABBERJAW- only had
ONE season of originals ever made- usually 16 to 18 episodes each.
During that time, NBC had a much itchier cancellation finger than the
other two, so their inventory of shows that disappeared after one year
was much larger. To name a few, ROMAN HOLIDAYS, BARKLEYS, HOUNDCATS,
SEALAB 2020, BUTCH CASSIDY, INCH HIGH, WHEELIE, WALDO KITTY, C.B.
BEARS and countless live-action D'Angelo-Bullock series. The network
was also more prone to cut off low-rated shows midseason, as happened
to the 1977 ARCHIE/SABRINA revival, MOHAMMED ALI and SPACE RACE.
That's how you would end up with the annual mid-season return of THE
JETSONS, JONNY QUEST, SPACE GHOST, HONG KONG PHOOEY et al. This all
contributed to NBC's image as an also-ran.
That's why it was quite shocking in January 1989 to see 16-year-old
reruns of FAT ALBERT suddenly appear on NBC to replace a failed show.
Somebody must've been aware of Bill Cosby's continued prime-time
success on the network and figured it was time to dust off the
Junkyard Gang.
You could say the Smurfs were the Bill Cosby of Saturday morning. They
reversed NBC's severe Saturday AM ratings problems the way Cosby would
revive the network's prime-time fortunes three years later.
Kip Williams
> I think Radio Comics was a name that Archie Comics used for copyrighting
> Josie & The Pussycats.
That reminds me:
Jules Feiffer, as a kid, drew his own comics on lined paper. He used
the title "Radio Comics" on the example that he reprinted in the
introduction to _The Great Comic Book Heroes_.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
"Well, it looks as though my time is up. The old clock on the wall
has melted." --Hugh "Wavy Gravy" Romney
Chris Sobieniak
wrote:>awson.webtv.net>...
>>they got to air the "Krofft Superstars Hour" for the
>>1978-79 season? By then they were just smeared
>>with all these sci-fi based cartoons like Yogi's
>>Space Race, Godzilla, and anything else I can't
>>remember.
>SPACE RACE was probably NBC's answer to the
>huge success of LAFF-A-LYMPICS on ABC (and
>possibly the syndicated revival of WACKY
>RACES). It was very strange to see new Yogi
>material on two competing networks in the same
>season. The title segment disappeared by
>November 1978 and the remaining ones- Buford,
>Galloping Ghost and Galaxy Goof-ups were
>repackaged in separate half-hours for the rest of
>the season.
Never thought they were all sandwiched in like that.
>The Goof-ups were actually included in 1988's
>syndicated Yogi revival, along with new Yogi
>shorts and 1973's GANG.
That's where I first saw these I think.
>GODZILLA was actually a big success at the time
>for NBC- new episodes were produced for 1979 (a
>whole 13 episodes), and I think, 1980 (just 6 or 8
>new).
So I heard. Too bad there's always gonna be that one or two Godzilla
fans who'd like to diss it for all the differences and other liberties
done to the character.
>Whether you love or hate the Smurfs (I fall into the
>latter camp),
For me, I had to grow up watching them as a four year old back in '81.
>they really did reverse NBC's fortunes. All through
>the sixties and seventies, as mentioned, NBC was
>the weak sister of Saturday AM.
CBS and ABC always had the best!
>Granted, they did have some successes.
>SECRET/ATOM, BANANA SPLITS,
>EMERGENCY PLUS FOUR, STAR TREK, RUN
>JOE RUN, SIGMUND and LAND OF THE LOST
>all met the unofficial definition of Saturday AM 'hit':
>they had second seasons- or more- of originals.
The Sid & Marty Kroft programs probably helped out a lot.
>Reruns of DFE threatricals lasted for nine
>seasons. But any NBC successes of that era are
>somehow less remembered than those hit shows
>identified with ABC (SUPER FRIENDS,
>LAFF-A-LYMPICS, JACKSON 5IVE, BRADY
>KIDS, latter SCOOBY-DOO, DYNOMUTT,
>KROFFT SUPERSHOW, PLASTIC MAN) or CBS
>(ARCHIES, early SCOOBY-DOO, JOSIE,
>GLOBETROTTERS, PEBBLES & BAMM BAMM,
>FAT ALBERT, SHAZAM, TARZAN, POPEYE).
Scooby-Doo was a ratings pusher for both networks I bet. Still, I
enjoyed watching the CBS airings of Fat Albert as a tyke (I hate to
admit this to anyone).
>Once the SMURFS came, NBC had their fair share
>of hits through the eighties: SPIDERMAN, SHIRT
>TALES, CHIPMUNKS, MISTER T, SNORKS,
>PUNKY BREWSTER, KIDD VIDEO, FOOFUR,
>ALF, KISSYFUR.
Probably what led me out of watching ABC for most of saturday morning in
the '80s (besides the Weekend Specials and American Bandstand and
whatever else caught my eye).
>Granted, there were the usual share of
>one-season-and-out shows, but you have to
>remember that during the sixties and seventies,
>ABC and CBS would rerun many series for
>additional seasons WITHOUT ordering any new
>originals. So a lot of shows long regarded as
>successes- SPACE GHOST, FANTASTIC FOUR,
>GEORGE OF THE JUNGLE, WACKY RACES
>and spinoffs, CATTANOOGA CATS, GROOVIE
>GHOULIES, JEANNIE, SPEED BUGGY, HONG
>KONG PHOOEY, JABBERJAW- only had ONE
>season of originals ever made- usually 16 to 18
>episodes each.
Does seem funny they wouldn't order more episodes for another season in
this case. I've read a bit about the use of producing 16 or 18 episodes
in this fashion.
>During that time, NBC had a much itchier
>cancellation finger than the other two, so their
>inventory of shows that disappeared after one year >was much larger. To
name a few, ROMAN
>HOLIDAYS, BARKLEYS, HOUNDCATS, SEALAB
>2020, BUTCH CASSIDY, INCH HIGH, WHEELIE,
>WALDO KITTY, C.B. BEARS and countless
>live-action D'Angelo-Bullock series.
What other the D'Angelo-Bullock programs? Just asking since I'm not too
familiar with these guys!
>The network was also more prone to cut off
>low-rated shows midseason, as happened to the
>1977 ARCHIE/SABRINA revival, MOHAMMED ALI
>and SPACE RACE. That's how you would end up
>with the annual mid-season return of THE
>JETSONS, JONNY QUEST, SPACE GHOST,
>HONG KONG PHOOEY et al. This all contributed
>to NBC's image as an also-ran.
Surprised kids still watched them anyway!
>That's why it was quite shocking in January 1989
>to see 16-year-old reruns of FAT ALBERT
>suddenly appear on NBC to replace a failed show.
I noticed something like that, though I'm suprised I hardly saw that.
Just grew out of Fat Albert by that point!
>Somebody must've been aware of Bill Cosby's
>continued prime-time success on the network and
>figured it was time to dust off the Junkyard Gang.
Much like the recent airing of the Xmas special on UPN, and the recent
talk of a live-action Fat Albert movie, wonder how much of a comeback
could we see out of this? Remember sometime in the '90s when I started
seeing Fat Albert T-shirts again. Have one too, but it doesn't fit me
anymore!
>You could say the Smurfs were the Bill Cosby of
>Saturday morning. They reversed NBC's severe
>Saturday AM ratings problems the way Cosby
>would revive the network's prime-time fortunes
>three years later.
Without Bill, prime-time NBC would've been a lot different I bet (still,
I enjoyed DIff'rent Strokes, Gimme A Break, and anything else that came
before Cosby).
Joe Bevilacqua
was the voice of Top Cat and Deputy Dawg. He wasn't.
Joe
gca...@aol.comsu.z.q (Steve Carras ) wrote in message news:<20020511224557...@mb-fp.aol.com>...