DIY cabinets!!
ja5per
Just a wee question to one and all, I am in the process of buying a
bigger tank and would like to build the cabinet and hood myself to cut down
on cost.
The new tank will be 5' x 2' deep x 18"wide. I would like to make this from
MDF if possible with room for a 2'x1'x1' sump and height for a turboflotor
multi 1000. Are there any sites our there with such diagrams.
thanks in advance Ja5per
P.S. keep the dream alive !!!!!!
Mark Burningham
for my 72"x 24"x 18". I put a diagram on my site under the DIY link. It
lasted well, four years and saw countless floods from my water changes.
Unfortunately, I broke it while moving.
Regards
Mark
--
http://www.marksfish.f9.co.uk
Follow the link for information and articles on all aspects of fishkeeping.
Discus, marines and tropical are all covered.
"ja5per" <ja5...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ckeq5.3274$SR1....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Joe Martin
surround with doors easy, pulls away if I want it to and best of all cheap I
painted mine black to match my top.Also since the iron stand is supporting the
tank the wood surround can be thin wood.
joe
Kristen
>I have the same tank but what I did I got the iron stand then built a wood
>surround with doors easy, pulls away if I want it to and best of all cheap I
>painted mine black to match my top.Also since the iron stand is supporting the
>tank the wood surround can be thin wood.
Yeah, but in case you haven't noticed, some metal stands can be not
too stable, especially for larger tanks. I once saw a picture of a
125 on an AGA deluxe iron stand, and it gave me a headache just
looking at it! I'm even beginning to feel my 55 is too heavy for the
deluxe stand it's on (sways way too much side-to-side,) so we're going
to build our own wood stand.
Also, the feet put a LOT of weight on tiny little areas of the floor.
Another concern I've had is the feet just punching right through the
floor, so we put it on plywood.
If he's going to decide on which stand to go with from the start, I
definitely recommend doing a full-footprint wooden stand!
See ya,
Kristen
--
"The Frogurt is also cursed."
Stan A. Rogge
"Kristen" <dran...@cannan.net> wrote in message news:39aab0fc...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
SvenW
few thing to consider though.
The top need to be flat even under heavy load. I used a 28mm sheet made
of wood glued togheter. Expensive but very good, it was about half of
the total cabinet cost. Thick MDF should also do fine
Consider using 6 legs. I used six 2' x 2'.
Other than that you need to be carefull to keep legs even and straight
etc. etc. to keep the top flat.
Use heavy dimensions just for safety.
And finaly lower means steadier.
My cabinet took ~15 h to build and cost a total of less than 100$.
/Sven
Bruno
>I just built a cabinet of similar size and it was no large problem. A
>few thing to consider though.
I just started and finished one this week as well (for a 120G). My second one.
This time I did panelling of MDF instead of birch plywood - much faster.
>The top need to be flat even under heavy load. I used a 28mm sheet made
>of wood glued togheter.
Commonly called plywood in North America. It can be found at varying prices and
grades (depending on the surface wood and its finish).
> Expensive but very good, it was about half of the total cabinet cost.
That's too bad. You just blew a good bit of money for nothing. :) The only way
the wood could bend (you mention above it needs to be flat) would be if
something (the tank bottom) was pressing on it. The fact is however, that the
bottom of a tank does not usually touch the surface below it - unless you put a
large pad under the tank.
Tanks need only to be supported around their perimeter - in other words, along
its four edges. For this a nice frame of 2x4 (tank resting on 2" surface) or
non-dimensional panelling used to make cabinets (plywood, particle board) is
fine.
>Use heavy dimensions just for safety.
But don't use something like a 4x4. It's overkill for pretty much ANY tank and
also has a very good tendency to split and warp over time. Seal your wood well
so it won't absorb moisture. Also if using lumber, make sure it's been dried.
Bruno
Kristen
>SvenW <wi...@ebox.tninet.se> wrote:
>>The top need to be flat even under heavy load. I used a 28mm sheet made
>>of wood glued togheter.
>> Expensive but very good, it was about half of the total cabinet cost.
>That's too bad. You just blew a good bit of money for nothing. :) The only way
>the wood could bend (you mention above it needs to be flat) would be if
>something (the tank bottom) was pressing on it. The fact is however, that the
>bottom of a tank does not usually touch the surface below it - unless you put a
>large pad under the tank.
Not all countries use the same style of tank we commonly do in the US.
In some places it's common to have glass tanks with no plastic trim
(acrylic-style,) so the glass DOES sit flat on the stand.
SvenW
>
> SvenW <wi...@ebox.tninet.se> wrote:
>
> >I just built a cabinet of similar size and it was no large problem. A
> >few thing to consider though.
>
> I just started and finished one this week as well (for a 120G). My second one.
> This time I did panelling of MDF instead of birch plywood - much faster.
>
thats important.
> >The top need to be flat even under heavy load. I used a 28mm sheet made
> >of wood glued togheter.
>
> Commonly called plywood in North America. It can be found at varying prices and
> grades (depending on the surface wood and its finish).
>
It's not plywood. It's a bunch of ribs abt 1 x 2 glued togheter under
high pressure. Extremly strong, doesn't warp and very good looking given
a proper coating.
It's rather common in nordic furniture today and gives a professional
look. I have no idea if it is available in other places of the world.
> > ....
> ....
> >Use heavy dimensions just for safety.
>
> But don't use something like a 4x4. It's overkill for pretty much ANY tank and
> also has a very good tendency to split and warp over time. Seal your wood well
> so it won't absorb moisture. Also if using lumber, make sure it's been dried.
>
Agreed. 4x4 is often overkill even if you are building a house
(depending on the architecture). If possible buy all meterial from a
shop which store it indoors.
/Sven
Bruno
>MDF or plywood doesn't influence the speed that much. It is the tools
>thats important.
Given the same tools, you can complete two stands at varying speeds just because
of the materials and final trimmings. I will give you an example.
When I made my first stand I used 1/2" double finish-grade Birch plywod. I had
to be fairly precise in my cuts or I would not be able to complete the stand
with a professional look to it. I planned on staining the plywood, so
imperfections would be easy to see. So all small holes must be filled in and
everything must be sanded super smooth. You have to apply edge laminate to hide
the fact that you're using plywood. I had to make a frame for the doors as well
(1/2" isn't thick enough to use with European cabinet hinges).
Now out of MDF... A smooth cut edge looks almost the same as its smooth
surface. You can't stain it, so it has to be painted. No need for fancy edging
as long as you've cut things squarely. Put it together, prime it and paint it.
Doors are made with 3/4 MDF so they don't need an additional frame. Done. :)
Ok, but with me nothing is that simple in either case. I used three router bits
on the doors for some fancier edges. I made my own moulding. I am painting
about 9 coats using a sponge technique with two distinct colours, multiple
shades of each as well as different levels of opacity. I'm also trimming in
brushed aluminum. For the first stand I bought most of the moulding, made the
baseboard and will be covering part of the baseboard in copper sheet.
>> Commonly called plywood in North America. It can be found at varying prices and
>> grades (depending on the surface wood and its finish).
>>
>It's not plywood. It's a bunch of ribs abt 1 x 2 glued togheter under
>high pressure. Extremly strong, doesn't warp and very good looking given
>a proper coating.
We have the same thing in NA. I know exactly what you're talking about. I've
also made my own when I had access to a school shop. Just all out of left over
pieces. Then I planes and sanded it. Very cool look. I first understood that
you were talking about sheets glued to each other.
>Agreed. 4x4 is often overkill even if you are building a house
>(depending on the architecture).
Houses here in Ontario don't use any 4x4 lumber. Mostly 2x4 and of course 2x6,
2x8 and even 2x10.
>If possible buy all meterial from a shop which store it indoors.
All the big places here do, but it's all been outdoors at one time or another.
On a train or truck for shipping. In the yard before it gets loaded inside,
etc. Lucky there are a few grades available to choose from. I also make sure
to individually select 2x4's when I'm making something like this.
So, do you have a plastic edge/frame along the bottom of your tank?
Bruno
Clint Neufeld
You going to post pictures of your stand? Sounds interesting! :)
Clint
"Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
news:qkjtqsoh75vq18js1...@4ax.com...
Bruno
>You going to post pictures of your stand? Sounds interesting! :)
I have some pics of the construction stages of the first stand on hand. I'll be
taking more pictures of it as soon as I finish with the trim (have to trim and
stain the hood for it as well). I'll also get some pics of the second (MDF
over 2x4's) stand as well. I'm finishing up the first half of its hood right
now (the right half is a self-contained hood and the left half will take an
extension and then a hood atop that extension).
Bruno
Clint Neufeld
closet. Seems to be taking a long time! :)
Clint
"Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
news:jh6uqs0ejd963h0cq...@4ax.com...
SvenW
> >MDF or plywood doesn't influence the speed that much. It is the tools
> >thats important.
>
> Given the same tools, you can complete two stands at varying speeds just because
> of the materials and final trimmings. I will give you an example.
>
> When I made my first stand I used 1/2" double finish-grade Birch plywod. I had
> to be fairly precise in my cuts or I would not be able to complete the stand
> with a professional look to it. I planned on staining the plywood, so
> imperfections would be easy to see. So all small holes must be filled in and
> everything must be sanded super smooth. You have to apply edge laminate to hide
> the fact that you're using plywood. I had to make a frame for the doors as well
> (1/2" isn't thick enough to use with European cabinet hinges).
>
> Now out of MDF... A smooth cut edge looks almost the same as its smooth
> surface. You can't stain it, so it has to be painted. No need for fancy edging
> as long as you've cut things squarely. Put it together, prime it and paint it.
> Doors are made with 3/4 MDF so they don't need an additional frame. Done. :)
>
> Ok, but with me nothing is that simple in either case. I used three router bits
> on the doors for some fancier edges. I made my own moulding. I am painting
> about 9 coats using a sponge technique with two distinct colours, multiple
> shades of each as well as different levels of opacity. I'm also trimming in
> brushed aluminum. For the first stand I bought most of the moulding, made the
> baseboard and will be covering part of the baseboard in copper sheet.
>
Yes i agree that MDF is superior to plywood for many applications. For
the side panels I used another kind of sheets which I dont know the
proper english name for. It's made of small pieces of wood and a loot of
glue unedr high pressure. Very common here. It's inexpensive, abt 1/4
of the MDF price here. I happend to have some suitable sheets left from
floor and wall renovation of the house.
If I should have needed to by all material I would also have considered
MDF very seriously. I suspect my cost would have been a bit higher
though.
And bye the way, if I would construct a cabinet to support anything as
heavy as an aquarium with sheets only, I would not consider anything but
MDF, it's an excellent material.
> >...
>...
> >Agreed. 4x4 is often overkill even if you are building a house
> >(depending on the architecture).
>
> Houses here in Ontario don't use any 4x4 lumber. Mostly 2x4 and of course 2x6,
> 2x8 and even 2x10.
>
Just checked the drawings. I don't have anything larger than 2x6 in my
house.
> >If possible buy all meterial from a shop which store it indoors.
>
> All the big places here do, but it's all been outdoors at one time or another.
> On a train or truck for shipping. In the yard before it gets loaded inside,
> etc. Lucky there are a few grades available to choose from.
Absolutely. I just ment that it is better to use lumber that has been
indoors for maybee a few months, which can make a huge difference
atleast in nordic climate.
And people doing delicate woodwork like building a violin, don't touch
the wood before they have stored it 5, 10 or preferably 20 years
indoors.
> I also make sure
> to individually select 2x4's when I'm making something like this.
Yes, a must do for all "lumber".
> So, do you have a plastic edge/frame along the bottom of your tank?
Its a German Juwel tank and I has an metalic frame. It is painted black
so i can't determine which metall it is but I think it is aluminimum.
It has an perfect fit against the cabinet top. I can't put a paper sheet
under it on any place without force. This is true both for empty and
filled tank.
I could have bought a matching cabinet with the tank but my homebuilt
cost about 50% and is much steadier and in my humble opinion more
practical with lockable doors and a height which match the other
furniture in the room.
/Sven
niko...@my-deja.com
SvenW <wi...@ebox.tninet.se> wrote:
> Yes i agree that MDF is superior to plywood for many applications. For
> the side panels I used another kind of sheets which I dont know the
> proper english name for. It's made of small pieces of wood and a loot
of
> glue unedr high pressure. Very common here. It's inexpensive, abt 1/4
> of the MDF price here. I happend to have some suitable sheets left
from
Chipboard in English English, Particle Board in American English.
Stephen
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bruno
>Chipboard in English English, Particle Board in American English.
See my post to Sven...
Bruno
Bruno
>Yes i agree that MDF is superior to plywood for many applications.
It really isn't any good if you want to take something apart though. MDF splits
very easily. But it has suited me well for the current stand facing and for
this current hood. Just have to make sure to seal the hood very very well.
Have you ever seen MDF suck up water along an edge? It's certainly funky, but
it isn't pretty. :)
>For the side panels I used another kind of sheets which I dont know the
>proper english name for. It's made of small pieces of wood and a loot of
>glue unedr high pressure. Very common here.
There are two posibilities. If it is small tiny little fragments of wood (like
they went through a blender) then it's called Particle Board in North America as
Stephen pointed out. However, there is also another sheet product that is made
with small pieces of wood - sort of like shards and splinters (varying sizes,
but nothing like putting it in a blender - some pieces maybe more than 2
inches). Anyway, I don't know what to cal that one. :) But I'll make sure to
check when I'm out tomorrow at Home Depot (I used it for the back of my first
stand).
>It's inexpensive, abt 1/4 of the MDF price here. I happend to have
>some suitable sheets left from floor and wall renovation of the house.
This last sheet material I mentioned is also commonly used for subfloors here in
Ontario as well.
>And bye the way, if I would construct a cabinet to support anything as
>heavy as an aquarium with sheets only, I would not consider anything but
>MDF, it's an excellent material.
See, I would have been worried with that alone. I'm not a cabinet maker and
have never taken any cabinet making classes, so I would definitely do a lot more
researching before attempting to build a non-framed structure to hold something
like an aquarium. :) I'm just handy and have a good imagination when I'm not
sleepy.
>I just ment that it is better to use lumber that has been
>indoors for maybee a few months, which can make a huge difference
>atleast in nordic climate.
Well, I am in Canada, but not exactly Nordic... Though some people in the South
woud disagree. And to anyone questioning... No, none of the construction in my
home involves any type of ice blocks or animal pelts. :)
>And people doing delicate woodwork like building a violin, don't touch
>the wood before they have stored it 5, 10 or preferably 20 years
>indoors.
Well, I started this tank project two years ago... Maybe I can incorporate some
strings into it to get the fish dancing when it's done.
>I could have bought a matching cabinet with the tank but my homebuilt
>cost about 50%
I think my stand cost about 150% more than a store bought one. :) That's
usually how my do it yourself projects end up in the end. Ok, exageration, but I
always take things to the next level. If I bought a stand at any price in a pet
shop, I'd still have to spend some bucks to get it to the level of mine (fully
wired, lit and GFCI protected, sealed and painted on the inside, nice moulding,
good hidden hinges on the doors, hidden barrel hinges for a fold-down panel to
access the bottom of the tank - which sits on a tubular metal frame - that's the
first stand, the second still features all the wiring but no fold-down panel).
>practical with lockable doors and a height which match the other
>furniture in the room.
Nice. That's the other thing. Only something custom can really match the
surroundings you intend to place it in. Hadn't thought of lockable doors. Nice
idea. There's more money I'll end up spending now! :)
Bruno
Clint Neufeld
Chip Board, I think. I don't think it handles wetness very well. Lot of
glue holding it together, although the glue might be geared for outdoor
exposures.
I figure the last stand I bought cost about the same as a store-bought one,
but MUCH nicer. Got a built-in bookcase in the bottom, a hood I can put
plants on the top. Much solider (is that a word?), and looks better to
boot. So much for modesty! :) Seriously, the stuff available locally
sucks. Basic particle board construction, and it shows.
Clint
"Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
news:ihp0rso5vgcu2auj7...@4ax.com...
Matt
myself from making several comments....
all never mind..
MDF is a type of particle board (Medium density fiberboard)
For the wood with big pieces .. commonly referred to as wafer board, used
for non load bearing applications which will be covered (vinyl siding)
because it is cheap.
Wayne Jones
a smooth finish on it and it machines very poorly. You can't do anything
with the cut edges except cover them up. It is between exterior plywood and
particle board in it's ability to resist moisture. Particle board is
basically made out of sawdust and glue. It machines not so well but can be
painted with good results. It maks a good substrate for laminates. MDF is
actually even worse than particle board when it comes to moisture
resistance, is very heavy, doesn't take fasteners well and it not very
strong either. The reason to chose MDF is that it is a superior surface for
painting and it machines very, very well. To use it in situations of high
humidity you have to paint it with epoxy where as exterior plywood can be
just painted with regular paint. You cannot even prime MDF with a water
based primer or you will end up with severe grain raising. If you are not
painting or routing the edges of the panels then don't use it. MDF painted
with epoxy seems to be much stronger than otherwise. It is so absorbant that
it sucks the epoxy into the surface creating a composite material. It would
always be my first choice for painted panels. It is great for making cabinet
doors. The edges can be shaped with a router and the painted surface can be
flawless if done properly.
Wayne
"Clint Neufeld" <no-...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ue_r5.41197$T5.5...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
Bruno
>OSB is not very water resistant. The surface is quite rough so you can't get
>a smooth finish on it and it machines very poorly.
That's why it's used for subfloors or covered with siding. The piece I used for
the back of my first stand was actually very smooth on one side. Guess they
must have planed and sanded it from a thicker piece.
>Particle board is basically made out of sawdust and glue.
It's not what some people might think of when they think of sawdust though. It
is definitely the chunkier little fragments and not the fine powdered dust.
Just to be clear. It is quite strong, but not taking into acount its weight to
strength ratio. On edge it is very rigid and can definitely be used for support
(cabinets, etc...)
>It machines not so well but can be painted with good results.
You will have to apply a laminate or veneer to any sawed edges you plan on
having visible. It cuts fine with power saws if you have a good blade. It
drills well if you have a sharp bit. Precision is more important than with
solid wood because of its ability to flake.
>It maks a good substrate for laminates.
And it is widely sold with laminates and veneers already in place. The first
hood I made was covered on both sides with real birch veneer (same as used on
the plywood I used for the stand).
>MDF is actually even worse than particle board when it comes to moisture
>resistance,
Stick a small cut length into a very tiny puddle of water and watch what happens
to that edge. :) Like bounty, it's the quicker picker-upper.
>is very heavy,
I wasn't going anywhere with a 4x8 sheet at 3/4" thick without my brother's
help.
>doesn't take fasteners well
Like particle board, it is best to use special screws. At one place here, they
call them speed screws and at Home Depot they are market as Particle Board
Screws. They're more flanged than your standard screws to take a wider bite and
they don't require as many turns to completely sink.
>and it not very strong either.
Again, in weight to strength ratio, it is certainly not the best. But for
certain applications it can ve extremely strong. And heavy. :) It is also
extremely dense, which suits it for things like speaker cabinets. On edge, you
should not have a problem supporting anything you can support with particle
board.
>it machines very, very well.
You can find a lot of moulding at Home Depot, pre-primed, made from MDF. You
have to be careful when sanding it if you're doing your own routing. The
factory surfaces are nice and smooth because they were pressed that way during
its manufacturing.
>You cannot even prime MDF with a water based primer or
>you will end up with severe grain raising.
MDF has no grain. It's the closest thing to hard-pressed dust around. If you
soak it in water, it expands as I mentioned above. If you paint it, it will
soak a little at the edges, depending on how thick your paint is. Using
water-based acrylic latex isn't a problem in my experience though. I used to
use MDF for paintings as an alternative to canvas. I made mouldings for my new
stand from MDF and primed them with a water-based primer without a problem. The
new stand is also covered in 1/2" MDF and I primed it as well. It now has some
4 of 5 coats of acrylic paint on it over the primer.
>It is so absorbant that it sucks the epoxy into the surface creating a
> composite material.
I'll be able to tell you my experience shortly. I'm going out ina few hours to
buy some epoxy paint for my new hood. :)
>always be my first choice for painted panels. It is great for making cabinet
>doors. The edges can be shaped with a router and the painted surface can be
>flawless if done properly.
I had a blast making the doors for my stand with it. Very fast and simple with
a router and a few bits.
Any of the construction materials talked about in this entire thread can be used
successfully for hundreds of applications. Some require extra precautions and
additional finishing touches. As a facing-only material, all of them can
successfully be used on an aquarium stand (except the OSB because it's never
going to be finish-grade).
This is giving me some inspriation to host a little DIY section on my planned
web page containing material information and pictures of as many people's
projects as I can get a hold of.
Bruno
Kent Cannon
support. I have no problems with the stand and I foresee none. Anyone with
any cabinet making experience knows that when properly spaced MdF or
particle board supports will carry just as much or more weight as the 2x4
frames I have seen on various sites. I will also stress that the screws
that those stands were put together with have a very low sheer strength
(hardened and brittle). Nails are much stronger (16p nails have a shear
strength of around 1600 lbs. Vs about 300). MDF stands can be glued as they
are assembled and will achieve as much as or more strength as a stand made
with framing lumber and will at the same time achieve a higher quality
finished look. For looks you can glue on door skins (1/16" veneer available
in oak, birch and mahogany) with contact cement. The face frame can be made
out of comparable wood to finish the decor.
I would be glad to email a set of plans detailing construction of a stand
out of mdf.
--
Kent
Remove the obvious to reply
"Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
news:ihp0rso5vgcu2auj7...@4ax.com...
SvenW
> >And bye the way, if I would construct a cabinet to support anything as
> >heavy as an aquarium with sheets only, I would not consider anything but
> >MDF, it's an excellent material.
>
> See, I would have been worried with that alone. I'm not a cabinet maker and
> have never taken any cabinet making classes, so I would definitely do a lot more
> researching before attempting to build a non-framed structure to hold something
> like an aquarium. :) I'm just handy and have a good imagination when I'm not
> sleepy.
The matching cabinet which I could have bought with the aquarium was
made of sheets only, so it is obviously possible. I think the most
important thing to take in to account is how the forces are applied to
the sheets standing verticaly so you never have a point there a sheets
take a large load without having another vertical sheet at (nearly)
right angle sharing it's load.
The joints is another important point but there are lot of technics to
do this in a secure way.
> >I just ment that it is better to use lumber that has been
> >indoors for maybee a few months, which can make a huge difference
> >atleast in nordic climate.
> Well, I am in Canada, but not exactly Nordic... Though some people in the South
> woud disagree. And to anyone questioning... No, none of the construction in my
> home involves any type of ice blocks or animal pelts. :)
I realice that my American geography knowledge glitched a bit. Of course
Ontario is in Canada and the climate should be fairly close the
conditions here :)
> >I could have bought a matching cabinet with the tank but my homebuilt
> >cost about 50%
> I think my stand cost about 150% more than a store bought one. :)
> ...
My main concern was reducing cost which I achieved although not as much
as I hoped.
The other goal was to have a more stable construction which would stand
even then my three young children are playing in the room.
> >practical with lockable doors and a height which match the other
> >furniture in the room.
>
> Nice. That's the other thing. Only something custom can really match the
> surroundings you intend to place it in. Hadn't thought of lockable doors. Nice
> idea. There's more money I'll end up spending now! :)
>
Locks are a must then you have three-year olds. Almost all things you
have with the aquarium must be locked in.
/sven
Wayne Jones
fibers. If you prime it with water based paint you get small raised bumps on
the previously smooth surface. This is caused by the wood fibers absorbing
water. It is not that big a deal if you want a house paint finish but it is
pretty brutal if you want an automotive quality finish. You would have to
sand it smooth again and then the next time you apply primer you get the
bumps again but to a lesser degree. To save this sort of trouble it is much
better to use an oil based primer/sealer before spray painting or for some
high humidity areas you can use an epoxy sealer. I just seal everything with
epoxy so that all the surfaces take paint the same way and apply 3 coats of
epoxy to surfaces inside the hood. Then I use a brush on sandable primer on
the exposed areas and wet sand to a smooth finish before spray painting.
The best epoxy for aquarium hoods is a marine grade non-blushing epoxy with
no color added like that sold by System 3. There is a dealer in the Toronto
area but I don't remember the name. You can paint over that type of epoxy
with ordinary paint but actually I don't bother to do that on the inside
anymore. I just use it clear. I use reflectors that cover the inside of the
hood anyway. If you use a colored epoxy it won't be as waterproof or as
strong as the clear stuff. Epoxy will also allow you to make structures
without using fasteners. The nicest hood I have made so far has no
fasteners. It is built like a plywood/epoxy boat and has epoxy fillets that
hold it together. I used another acronym plywood called MDO but I didn't
like it as much a the MDF even though I paid 3 times what a sheet of MDF
would have cost.
Wayne
"Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
> >You cannot even prime MDF with a water based primer or
Bruno
>MDF is not made from dust as it appears. It is made from pressed wood
>fibers.
I just meant that the fibres are the smallest particle of any of the
manufactured wood products available at a place like Home Depot, etc...
BTW, anyone ever try a substrate of the fibre that's left over after you route
MDF? I've got a HUGE pile of it right now. :) Maybe under a layer of kitty
litter, in turn under a layer of bat guano and all under some 1.37875mm
sand-blasting sand. :)
>If you prime it with water based paint you get small raised bumps on
>the previously smooth surface.
I've never seen this happen on the good surfaces of MDF, only along cut edges.
I've only ever used water-based paints with MDF too. Maybe I just didn't have
enough soak time or enough water inthe paint.
>pretty brutal if you want an automotive quality finish.
Are you making something for a hot-rod soap-box-derby car show? :) If you want
an automotive finish, then you can use automotive paints. I don't know if I'd
go to the expense of Sikkens or PPG for an aquarium stand or hood though. Not
to mention having to mix the two parts and needing the compressor equipment.
>I just seal everything with
>epoxy so that all the surfaces take paint the same way and apply 3 coats of
>epoxy to surfaces inside the hood.
I should have asked you about the specific of this earlier. Like specifically
which brands of epoxy you have used (since you're here in Ontario as well) and
where you got them from. I looked at the one epoxy paint I saw at Home Depot,
but it's for horizontal surfaces only and not meant for wood at all. I ended up
getting some "Vararthane Colors in Plastic" plastic enamel (gloss white). It
says on the can suitable for marine use. When done with a bunch of coats of
that I plan to clear coat using Varathane Outdoor Diamond Coat (gloss). So I'm
keeping my fingers crossed.
It cost me $36 Canadian for one gallon of the stuff. $18 for a quart of the
Diamond coat (I'm going to see what the finish is like before deciding to use
it). Paint is too expensive. :)
How much does the epoxy run? When you *used* to spray colour onto your hoods,
would you top coat with some kind of polyurethane (or perhaps epoxy again)?
>I just use it clear. I use reflectors that cover the inside of the
>hood anyway.
For my current hood I am using 55w CF on the right side from AH which came with
nice shiny reflectors. On the left side (higher up than the right side) I will
be using T8 bulbs and currently don't have any reflectors. Do you have any
special ones that you've been using? Make your own, bought?
>The nicest hood I have made so far has no fasteners.
Well, glue (epoxy in your case) is technically a fastener.
>It is built like a plywood/epoxy boat and has epoxy fillets that
>hold it together.
Do you have any instructions/plans handy for this type of construction? Sounds
interesting.
Curse my choice to go with a "tech" finishing touch on my current stand and
hood. I need to buy a few more lengths of aluminum trim (4 pieces of 8') and
it's costing me over $1 a foot. Argh.
I think I'm gong to use my left over wood and make a hood I can sell to a buddy.
:)
Bruno
K.B.
approach. Try using aliphatic white glue, is like Elmer's but with a
slightly different blend. This will not relax or pull off a few years down
the road like contact cement can.
K.B.
"Kent Cannon" <cann...@home.com> wrote in message
news:nX9s5.46080$Ur3.5...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
Bruno
"Wayne Jones" <w...@mnsi.net> wrote:
>You can get a good finish with Tremclad spray paint if you spend long enough
>on the priming and wet sanding sanding.
Thanks, I had enough wet sanding working on stuff for my PWC. :)
>I think the diamond coat is the better product. However, if you make a hood
>out of MDF and put it on an aquarium with no glass cover those products are
>not sufficient to protect the MDF on the inside.
Wayne, this is stuff you're supposed to tell me *BEFORE* I buy the stuff. :)
Lucky I bought it at Loan Depot - I love their 100% Satisfaction Guarnteed
return policy. I've seen people return PAINT that was custom coloured (that's
just wrong). And My brother saw someone returning TIRES (hint: Home Depot
doesn't even carry tires - but they actually took them!)
So what you're telling me is that I'm looking for trouble if I use the Plastic
Colors thing for the inside of the hood, right?
>The inside of an aquarium hood is the worst possible
>situation for paint. 100% humidity 100% of the time.
I'm actually aiming for about 75% humidity in this tank because of the herps I
plan to keep on the land side. Shouldn't be a problem. But I do want a well
sealed hood because to achieve this constant humidity value I'll have an
automatic misting system going twice per day.
>Eventually moisture gets behind the paint and into the MDF.
Very much "unwanted."
>The first coat of epoxy on MDF doesn't run at all it just soaks in.
You gave some really great info. I feel a little silly now though. Mainly
because when I wrote "run" I wanted to know how much it cost. :) Ah, "run" one
of the most intricate and complex words in the English language.
>I make my own using an aluminum shell and aluminized mylar.
Thanks again for the info via email.
>System 3 sells a kit for $10 USD that has an
>epoxy manual and sample products. It is a very good deal as there is enough
>stuff there to do maybe a 10 gallon hood and lots of good information.
Where can I get a suitable (I don't really care which brand if I can't get the
above one ASAP) Epoxy locally? Anywhere within 100km of Toronto. You mentioned
it was actually cheaper than the paint? Then I'd be more than happy to return
the Diamond Coat and Plstic Colors back to HD for $62 (that's how much they both
were together after tax - note that it was a full gallon of the Plastic Color).
lastly, any chance you know a place that sells the Epoxy and is also open on
Sundays? I'd like to get down a coat today if possible (esp seeing as tomorrow
is a holiday)
Bruno
K.B.
as with a stand and canopy in a reef tank. For wood to wood bonding,
aliphatic is one of the strongest bonding materials there is, and it is
water proof. I have seen numerous times where Formica had come lose on
countertops and vanity sinks where moisture was present over long periods of
time. Formica is a different material than bonding two wood based materials,
I do not use Formica so I have no experience with it, I do have quite a bit
of experience with cabinets and wooden veneers. Aliphatic is extremely
simple to apply, water cleanup and is water proof. Take two 1"x2" of plywood
gluing the 2" faces to form an X with both contact cement and aliphatic, let
dry overnight and attempt to pull the pieces apart. The parts glues with
aliphatic will separate outside the glue joint, the contact will separate at
the joint. Do not know any cabinet makers that use contact cement and there
is a reason for that besides cost.
K.B.
"Satyr" <sat...@blahblahexcite.com> wrote in message
news:0Ivs5.122488$6y5.81...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> Contact cement is what is used to bond your formica kitchen countertop to
> the substrate (plywood or particle board) and never have I seen formica
come
> loose unless it was picked at or pried loose. (I build homes for a
living).
>
> "Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
> news:q2t4rscn4jlk5jhdd...@4ax.com...
> > "K.B." <fast...@onebox.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Try using aliphatic white glue, is like Elmer's but with a
> > >slightly different blend. This will not relax or pull off a few years
> down
> > >the road like contact cement can.
> >
> > Are you talking about the moisture-resistant, basically waterproof,
> > commercial-quality contact cement? (Lepage professional quality here in
> > Canada)? I use that stuff to hold foot pads on my personal watercraft.
I
> also
> > use it on a spray deflector along the bow (along with stainless bolts).
> >
> > How many years down the line? I've probably seen floors that are 20
years
> old
> > with the same cement holding them in place.
> >
> > Bruno
>
>
Matt Moore
Visit Matt's Severum World at:
http://www.virtualseeds.com/matt.html
email: bodge...@yahoo.com
>
>I don't even have the luxury of using a table saw for any of my stuff right
now.
>I do most of the big cuts using a temporary aluminum fence and a circular
saw
>(this is one of the most indispensable power tools to have). For ripping I
use
>another slightly smaller circular saw on a portable saw/router table
mounted
>underneath (sort of a make-shift mini table saw :) I have a real headache
>soemtimes with its really crapp fence though (we got the whole table/kit
for
>free earlier this year so I'm not complaining). The router has also proved
very
>valuable. I'd say the only tools that are a requirement however are a
drill and
>a circular saw. If someone doesn have the saw then they shouldn't even
attempt
>a stand or hood unless all their wood is already ripped to the proper
width. If
>someone lacks a drill... Well... I don't even know what to say, it's one
of
>the most basic of tools and I don't know how anyone could ever get by doing
>anything without one.
>
>Bruno
I understand, biscuit joiners are comming down in price though. Mine is a
Porter-Cable, and cost less than $150 American if memory serves me, that
isn't peanuts if your on a budget though. You may be able to get the slot
cutter for your router used on ebay, I haven't looked, 'cause I already have
one. I've spent my earlier years using rip fences and circular saws too, and
pretty good work can be done with them too. If your lacking clamps, 2X4s of
the right length, with a block screwed at one end, and a tapered block with
a coresponding wedge glued to the other end works pretty good for a bar
clamp. Even 2X4s aren't cheap anymore though.
Dowelling the joints should be good with MDF too, and would cost alot less
too. I would invest in a dowelling jig though, I know, that's more $$$. I
sometimes wonder if I actually save any money on my DIY stuff, I usually
justify another tool each time I do one, after all I'm saving dough each
time;) By the time your a dottering old goat of 41 like me, you've got a
fairly extensive shop. It's also helped that I've worked as a carpenter for
20+ years, it's easier to justify tool costs. Carpentry is not cabinetry
though, most of my finish work stuff I got when I was doing retail store
finish work. Lots of MDF, particle board, laminates etc. What didn't come
from the shop preassembled was usually held together with hardware or
biscuits. I wish I'd "procured" more of the trick cabinet hardware, there
was always stuff left over that the contractor usually gave away, just to
get rid of it.
Bruno
> I understand, biscuit joiners are comming down in price though.
We'll see how it goes. If I started to build a lot of things that would do
better with one, I'd probably spring for it.
>You may be able to get the slot cutter for your router used on ebay, I haven't
>looked, 'cause I already have one.
I hadn't even thought about checking ebay for something like that.
> Dowelling the joints should be good with MDF too, and would cost alot less
>too. I would invest in a dowelling jig though, I know, that's more $$$.
Tell me about it. I bought an excellnt dowling jig last year. It've seen some
at more than twice the price, but none of the ones I found locally could do what
I needed to do: Up to 1/2" holes anywhere along the edge of a board up to about
3" THICK. I needed it for drilling mounting holes for barrel hinges (completely
hidden within two mating edges - they're not cheap either ;)
>I sometimes wonder if I actually save any money on my DIY stuff, I usually
>justify another tool each time I do one, after all I'm saving dough each
>time;)
Let's see. Last fall I bought a 12" DeWalt compound mitre saw... A 7 1/4"
high-amp Makita circular saw. A Porter Cable router with both fixed and plunge
bases. A Porter Cable random orbit sander. I still haven't bought the drill I
want (DeWalt 18V 1/2" chuck VSR/Hammer).
>By the time your a dottering old goat of 41 like me, you've got a
>fairly extensive shop.
I've got a number of years to get there, so I can only imagine - unless I go
broke first. :)
>It's also helped that I've worked as a carpenter for
>20+ years, it's easier to justify tool costs.
No such luxury. These are just hobbies to take my mind of my day job in the
tech industry.
>I wish I'd "procured" more of the trick cabinet hardware, there
>was always stuff left over that the contractor usually gave away, just to
>get rid of it.
Now those are the kinds of contractors I want as friends. :)
Bruno
i...@achrn.demon.co.uk
>I think the other stuff is OSB, or Oriented Strand Board. Used to be called
>Chip Board, I think. I don't think it handles wetness very well. Lot of
>glue holding it together, although the glue might be geared for outdoor
>exposures.
OSB and chipboard are different things, and both are current
products. OSB is available in grades that include water resistant.
>"Bruno" <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote in message
>news:ihp0rso5vgcu2auj7...@4ax.com...
>> Have you ever seen MDF suck up water along an edge? It's certainly funky,
>> but it isn't pretty. :)
Use moisture-resisting or external grade and no problem.
Moisture-resisting is only slightly more expensive than standard, and
works just as well. Not sure what external grade costs - I've never
bought it.
regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| Opinions expressed in this post are my own, and do
|o o| not reflect the views of Amos, my mbu puffer fish.
|/ \| (His view is that snails are very tasty.)
Caspar joins Amos on the web - http://www.achrn.demon.co.uk/caspar.html
Steve & Jo
From NZ
Jo
"Kristen" <dran...@cannan.net> wrote in message
news:39af3986...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
> >>of wood glued togheter.
>
> >That's too bad. You just blew a good bit of money for nothing. :) The
only way
> >the wood could bend (you mention above it needs to be flat) would be if
> >something (the tank bottom) was pressing on it. The fact is however,
that the
> >bottom of a tank does not usually touch the surface below it - unless you
put a
> >large pad under the tank.
>
Bruno
>There is plastic trim on tanks? What a waste of creating an environment.
It's nice not to cut your hands when picking up a tank that doesn't have
ground/smoothed edges. :)
Bruno
Dave
doesn't use the black trim smoothes the edges.
Dave
Phennacogrammus interptus
meant to be done on purpose.
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:48:46 GMT, dclu...@home.com (Dave) wrote:
>Yeah, you're right Bruno. That's why any reputable tank builder that
>doesn't use the black trim smoothes the edges.
>
>Dave
>
>On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 00:26:10 GMT, Bruno <Surf...@hybrid8.com> wrote:
>
Andrew Grant
a good stand, especially for larger tanks. I have heard that it is best
to make the stand span the perimerter of the base without cross supports and
let the glass "hang" on the frame ....... it is said that glass prefers to
have it's expansion unrestricted - is this true??
Andrew
"Phennacogrammus interptus" <hotn...@go.com> wrote in message
news:i6ctssgra4dgnvb13...@4ax.com...
Bruno
>Bruno's reply to my last message "Glass" makes mention of the importance of
>a good stand, especially for larger tanks.
Very important for a larger tank. A smaller tank can often be supported by a
good piece of pre-built furniture.
> I have heard that it is best
>to make the stand span the perimerter of the base without cross supports and
>let the glass "hang" on the frame ....... it is said that glass prefers to
>have it's expansion unrestricted - is this true??
I'm not sure I follow exactly what you mean by "hang" ... If you were to buy a
commercial tank (I did get your email, so I know you're not :) that has the
bottom pane of glass floating between all four sides, then your stand only needs
to support the edges of the tank.
However, as far as cross supports go, they're simply a necessity based upon the
size of your stand and its structure. They're more important for the rigidity
of the stand, and not to provide a load bearing surface for the tank.
Also of importance are properly spaced vertical members or vertical planes for
the stand. You don't want the heavy tank and stand to rest on the floor on four
legs. So the base should also follow the perimeter of the tank.
Bruno
Dave
<amg...@mweb.co.za> wrote:
>Bruno's reply to my last message "Glass" makes mention of the importance of
>a good stand, especially for larger tanks. I have heard that it is best
>to make the stand span the perimerter of the base without cross supports and
>let the glass "hang" on the frame ....... it is said that glass prefers to
>have it's expansion unrestricted - is this true??
>
>Andrew
Andrew, I always place a 1/2" piece of styrofoam underneath my tanks
to allow for any expansion or warping of the supporting wood. None of
my tanks have the trim around the glass though so I have to ensure
that the entire bottom plate of glass is evenly supported. There are
no sharp edges either as the glass has been ground smooth.
There is a bit on my website about my tank stand if you are
interested.
http://www.geocities.com/dclubine/Tank_Stand.html
Dave
Bruno
>Andrew, I always place a 1/2" piece of styrofoam underneath my tanks
>to allow for any expansion or warping of the supporting wood.
Not to mention any slight variations in the construction of the tank, or in the
building of the stand from the start.
> None of my tanks have the trim around the glass though so
> I have to ensure that the entire bottom plate of glass is evenly supported.
I didn't scan your site very deeply, but did you make the tanks as well? I did
read enough to see they were 48x30x18H.
>There is a bit on my website about my tank stand if you are
>interested.
The only suggestion I would have made for that stand would have been to put the
horizontal members on edge instead of on face. Greater rigidity because you're
simulating a portion of an I-bar (ok, sure it's more of a T since it doesn't
have the bottom part to it :) But it does look like the whole thing is
overbuilt enough that it shouldn't be a concern.
Another note to Andrew... Also make sure that when you build a stand, the tank
and stand are supported by the wood you're building with, not by the shear
strength of the screws or other fasteners used to hold the wood together. If
you look at Dave's site, you'll see he's put 2x4's veritically suporting the
shelving.
Bruno
Dave
>> None of my tanks have the trim around the glass though so
>> I have to ensure that the entire bottom plate of glass is evenly supported.
>
>I didn't scan your site very deeply, but did you make the tanks as well? I did
>read enough to see they were 48x30x18H.
>
They are actually 24x30x18H with 3/8" glass. I had them built by a
guy here in town. The 3/8" glass was not necessary but I didn't want
any cross braces or problems.
>The only suggestion I would have made for that stand would have been to put the
>horizontal members on edge instead of on face. Greater rigidity because you're
>simulating a portion of an I-bar (ok, sure it's more of a T since it doesn't
>have the bottom part to it :)
I know but I had to compromise somewhere. As it is there is just
enough height between the tank top and the upper shelf to do
maintenance.
Some other changes that I've made since those pictures... I cut off
the vertical legs at the top of upper shelf. They don't do anything
above that level but get in the way physically and for viewing. I've
also add some lateral support to the stand. The problem was that I
had accounted for the strength required to hold the weight vertically
but there was no lateral strength. Therefore if you were to push on
the stand from the side the entire thing could sway sideways and crash
to the floor. The difference was immediately noticeable after adding
the lateral supports.
Dave