A few newbie questions
Dr Sonic
I'm new to keeping fish, started off with a bowl (bad) and moved to a 20
litre tank.
I currently have one fantail about 2 in long, fine gravel substrate, UGF,
only plastic plants at the moment. The tank is only about 1 and a 1/2 weeks
old. Done 2 x 25% water changes, added dechlor and water conditioner
(hardener), as well as a product named Cycle which claims to jumpstart the
nitrification cycle. Feeding only flakes at the moment, usually once per
day. Using syphon to remove water for changes. Haven't run any tests yet
on the water.
Just a few questions, any help appreciated:
1. I found the fish sitting on the gravel not moving the other day when I
came home, thought he was dead but he started swimming again. I've found
him a few times like this. He's normally quite busy, is resting on the
bottom normal behaviour for a fantial?
2. I've noticed that the water has started to smell 'musty', is this normal
or should the water be odourless?
3. I bought a piece of wood from the LFS when I purchased the tank, but it
turned the water tea-coloured. I read in the FAQ that this might happen, is
there any way to treat the wood so that it won't change the water colour?
Thanks again, the FAQ and the rec.aquaria ng's are excellent!
--
Matt
Gunther
@hotmail.com says...
You're apt to get some fairly brusque replies to this.
Don't take offense, they're all rooting for the fish.
Here's my take.
1. Not that uncommon once in a while, but not that normal
either. Since this is a new tank, it's a near certainty that
you have ammonia building up. You really need a test kit, and
you probably should be doing daily water changes (25-50%) to keep it
under control.
2. In my opinion, you'll probably always have this problem
if UGF is the only filtration you have. Again, frequent water
changes should ameliorate this for now. Tackle it again after
the tank has cycled.
3. Toss it and get plastic wood. There probably is something
you could do, maybe as simple as soaking it until all the color
has leached out. But why risk poisoning the fish? Get plastic.
Good luck, get that test kit, and read some beginner's stuff,
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html is good, so is
puregold's "essentials" but I can't recall where it's been
moved to....
Gunther
MattO
"Dr Sonic" <borg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3dec514a$0$26157$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Hey Matt - welcome,
If you've been lurking you probably already know something of the "nitrogen
cycle"
You said you've read the FAQs, but just in case, see:
http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html#cycle
and more generally
http://www.thekrib.com
http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/
Since you didn't report any numbers I *assume* you haven't yet tested.
You need test kits & daily tests for ammonia and nitrites - ASAP
Your fish is counting on you - right now... the risk is "new tank syndrome",
toxic amounts of ammonia and/or nitrates - both fish killers - ugly and
oh-so avoidable.
Also test for Chlorine & pH - group will need your numbers to help.
Conventional wisdom holds that your new tank will need to cycle for 4-6
weeks,
doing frequent tests & (large) water changes while exposing your fish to
stress & risk,
until ammonia & nitrite = 0 & nitrates are present and your tank is cycled.
But the *latest thing* around here is a product from Marineland called
Bio-Spira -
treats new tank with all the friendly bacteria your tank would develop thru
a natural cycle.
A quantum leap in fishkeeping if early reports are right.
It may not yet be available in your area, but if it is - look into it.
May just circumvent that whole unpleasant "cycle" experience.
Otherwise - stay close to the group & your buckets for the next few weeks.
~ MattO
chet
Stuff I can help with. There are also real goldfish experts in this group
who can help with really extreme conditions, but you are describing common
new tank issues. Maybe, we can help your fish survive it.
One fantail to a 20L tank is about right to start things out (you will want
a larger tank when you decide to get more fish, but I digress).
Cycle has been described as "about as good as tossing in dirt". It doesn't
appear to speed up the ammonia elimination cycle in any meaningful way.
There is a new product from Marineland called "Bio-Spira" but it is not yet
widely available. Tests of this product in this group have shown some really
positive results. A bunch of us want a dose of this magic goo, RIGHT NOW!
Get an aquarium test kit, NOW! If you don't have one, go to your local fish
store and look for a test kit that measures at least ammonia, nitrite, and
pH. Measure the tank levels and report back to this list. You will soon want
tests that also measure Nitrate, and water hardness. There are other tests
that come up later, but they are not your immediate problem.
Generally, you want a pH of about 7.5, Temp of about 75F, no ammonia, and no
nitrite. You will be showing levels of ammonia or nitrite right now. Your
focus is to minimize the impact of this on your fish.
At 1-1/2 weeks, your tank is probably starting to generate some really
interesting levels of ammonia. Ammonia is quite toxic for your fish. If
that's not bad enough, when the ammonia starts to go away, Nitrite shows up,
which is equally nasty. You are in for 4-6 weeks of work. But this group can
help you through (they certainly helped me).
First, keep pH and temperature stable. Start performing daily water changes
(30-50%). Add aquarium salt (1/2 Tsp/Gallon{US}). Make sure to add dechlor
stuff with the water according to directions with every change. In your
daily testing, you will be looking at ammonia and nitrite levels. It won't
take you long to notice some interesting volatility in the measured levels.
The numbers will soon guide you as to when water changes are necessary. As
you report them back to this list, you will get good feedback. You are
trying to establish the biological filter. Bacteria that eat Ammonia and
excrete Nitrite. Ultimately (but longer), bacteria that eat Nitrite and
excrete Nitrate. For now, water changes (while maintaining stable pH and
Temp) will help your fish get through this.
Report back. You will get help from some real experts.
chet
"Dr Sonic" <borg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3dec514a$0$26157$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
chet
just devour most real plants in the tank. The wood is likely giving off
Tannin, giving the water a yellowish color. The musty smell is generally
from phenols. These both can generally be eliminated by using an "activated
charcoal filter" for a while.
On the other hand, neither of these conditions bother your fish. They only
bother you. Your main concern right now is most likely ammonia and nitrite.
Look back on some previous posts in this group and you will find discussions
on biological and mechanical filtration systems. The yellow color and smell
are chemical filtration issues, but a low priority at the moment.
chet
"Gunther" <gun...@his.house.org> wrote
<snip>
MattO
"chet" <chet-at-surewestDOTnet> wrote in message
news:uuorivf...@corp.supernews.com...
> As a side note, Dr. Sonic, ...
> Look back on some previous posts in this group
Google GF archives:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish&hl=en&btnG
=Google+Search
- we are everywhere
~ MattO
MattO
I try again - Google Archives are at: (using <> pointy braces this time)
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish&hl=en&btnG
=Google+Search
~ M
"MattO" <orielly....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:lm_G9.218282$1O2.14495@sccrnsc04...
MattO
Sugg. Matt check Google newsgroup archives under
rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
extra credit question to anyone still listening -
posting links cut&paste usually works - maybe should brace in quotes? tried
<> pointy braces.
long link below breaks up between "en&btnG" and "=Google+Search"
Is it me or my Outlook Express?
~ Matto
"MattO" <orielly....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Au_G9.217977$WL3.76532@rwcrnsc54...
Dr Sonic
It defaults to wrapping text after 76 chars
(i'm a techo by trade)
"MattO" <orielly....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:WM_G9.218569$P31.87959@rwcrnsc53...
Dr Sonic
I've done about a 40% water change, the fish seems to be swimming about a
bit more now. I'll keep up the changes, I need to get a test kit but I
don't think I can get to a LFS until the weekend. If I haven't got the kit
by then I'll take a sample to the LFS and get them to do the tests.
Otherwise I'll try the daily water changes to keep the ammonia down.
I understand that I can't implement any sort of chemical filter with the
UGF, is this correct?
Thanks again folks!
Chloe
news:3dec514a$0$26157$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Just a few questions, any help appreciated:
> 1. I found the fish sitting on the gravel not moving the other day when I
> came home, thought he was dead but he started swimming again. I've found
> him a few times like this. He's normally quite busy, is resting on the
> bottom normal behaviour for a fantial?
I've had my fantail and 2 black moors for about 2 and a half years now. One
of the moors has obviously not thrived as well as the other--he's smaller
and generally less active, and his fins split at the drop of a hat. I find
him sitting on the bottom a couple times a week. (I seldom or never see the
fantail there, though.) If I walk over by the tank or act like I'm going to
toss in some food, he perks right up. I'm not an expert, but from things
I've read I think some fish just do this.
Donald Kerns
> I understand that I can't implement any sort of chemical filter with the
> UGF, is this correct?
Not really. Some UGF riser tubes have a place that you can put a small
charcol filter... If yours don't oh well.
You can also add a air driven small sponge or corner filter than has charcol
in it.
Finally, while a bit overkill for a 20 l tank, you could look into adding an
external power filter like a Penguin Mini.
-Donald
--
"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as
real strength." St. Francis de Sales
MattO
"Dr Sonic" <borg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3dec88dd$0$12762$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I think you'll find it under tools->options->news sending settings
> It defaults to wrapping text after 76 chars
Right -
In Win98 it was
tools - options - send - news sending format - plain text settings - automatic wrap text
Thanks Matt!