goldfish-d Digest V97 #446

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goldfish-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 446

Today's Topics:
Re: Nat Geo article [ Fisherman of the North <scheblei@po ]
Re: Salt to water [ "fishhead" <fish...@hotcc.com> ]
Re: controlling growth [ Dav...@aol.com ]
Help, please. [ James & Sarah Getz <micahbaby@earth ]
Re: GF: Gill Mites [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: Thanks so much for your reply! [ "Sheep Groper" <shep...@posgate.ac ]
Re: [ngf] was:controlling growth [ Chris....@clorox.com (Chris Cho ]
Re: Help, please. [ BErne...@aol.com ]
Re: controlling growth [ SnoT...@aol.com ]
Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply [ John Och <John...@westgroup.com> ]
Re: Help, please. [ Ree...@aol.com ]
Peat moss [ "S.Penner" <spe...@warplink.com> ]
Salt and edema (was: Help, please.) [ Paul Mitsis <pmi...@nova.sarnoff.c ]
Ryukin with Body Growths [ "Edward M. Fisher"<edwardmfisher@un ]
Re: Ryukin with Body Growths [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: Help, please. [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: Salt and edema (was: Help, pleas [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: Ryukin with Body Growths [ "Edward M. Fisher"<edwardmfisher@un ]
Re: Ryukin with Body Growths [ Trudy Pogue <tpo...@genie.esu10.k12 ]
Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply -Reply [ John Och <John...@westgroup.com> ]
Re: Ryukin with Body Growths [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: Ryukin with Body Growths [ Lazul...@aol.com ]
Re: your accidental group posting [ Jessica <jmi...@adhoc.com> ]
Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply -Reply [ Lazul...@aol.com ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:09:16 -0500
From: Fisherman of the North <sche...@polar.polarcomm.com>
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Nat Geo article
Message-ID: <341744...@polar.polarcomm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Russell W Taylor wrote:
>
> Trillium asked:
> >>Many of us can point to the 1974 (?)
> >>National Geographic article ...
> >
> >Ok, I'm an ignoramous, I have no idea what article you are refering to.
> >Care to enlighten?
>
> Not much to say. Just a NG article on fancy goldfish.
> Lots of nice pictures and a good article to go with
> it.
>
> If you go to the National Geographic web site, I believe
> they have all the covers on display. You'll find this
> issue easily: has a big Bubble Eye on the cover.
>
> - Russ

Its the April 1973 issue. Many of you may not have been born yet, and
the cover still had the "guilded" frame around the front picture that
was changed in Oct of '79. The issue was about China. It is a bubble
eyed ranchu on the cover.

+ The OLD Fisherman of the North

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:38:01 -0500
From: "fishhead" <fish...@hotcc.com>
To: <gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: Salt to water
Message-Id: <1997091103...@hot.hotcom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

That would be closer to level then heaping. (tbsp's per 3 gallons).
Carol,...the frugal ponder.

So many Goldfish...so little money!
~~~~><(((õ>~~~~~><(((ô>~~~~

----------
> From: David Cunill <cun...@cyberus.ca>
> To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
>
> Is that heaping tablespoons or level?
>
> Thanks
> Dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:59:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dav...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: controlling growth
Message-ID: <97091100594...@emout07.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-10 14:16:58 EDT, Susan wrote:

<< But tell me, would you rather live in a 500 sq. foot
apartment eating meagerly OR in a nice big house with 3 healthy squares a
day. I know what I'd choose. >>

Oh come on, fish are not people. You are inflicted with what is known as the
"Bambi syndrome".

<<In fact I'm a near vegetarian, for a lot of reasons. >>

If you feed your fish any food that contains much protein it comes from
animals. The first ingredient on the first commercial fish food I grabbed
said "fish meal." If you feed commercial fish food you are killing fish to
feed your Goldfish! I don't care to what degree of a vegetarian you claim to
be, if you feed your Goldfish anything other than just vegetable, then you
are not practicing what you preach. If you feed only vegetables to your
Goldfish then you are very susceptible to being labeled cruel and someone
that mistreats their Goldfish.

-------Dave

"People are very inclined to set moral standards for others."----Elizabeth
Drew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:30:01 -0700
From: James & Sarah Getz <mica...@earthlink.net>
To: "gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu" <gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Help, please.
Message-ID: <34179DF8...@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well, my 4 inch red Oranda is 'pine-coning' on its side. I have been
off line for a while and have about 20 back digests to open, so I have
no idea what's been happending lately (so if I'm being redundant to a
question answered yesterday, sorry). Abraham (the fish) was acting
funny for a couple of days -- not swimming much or being his usual
playful self. Today I noticed the ill effect on his right side. He is
in a 55 gal with four other gfs. Today a few others started acting
funny too! How should I treat this? What meds? What method? Should I
dose the whole tank to be safe? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph and
temp are all normal and stable. Nothing has changed in the tank for
over a month. I'm really baffled as to where this came from!
Help,
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:21:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: GF: Gill Mites
Message-ID: <970910214343...@emout10.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-10 21:09:04 EDT, fish...@hotcc.com writes:

<< Also can't find much on gill mites in my books = what exactly are they? >>
There is no such thing, that is why you can't find it. There are gill flukes
called Dactylogyus, there are also a host of other problems in a parasitic
line that can create gill infestations as well, a good example is henneguya
and trichodina. All these things must be identified before treatment can be
administered. You obviously had some kind of parasite that was severly
affected by the anchors away, which implies some kind of trematode, or
ciliated parasite but without a proper scrape and ID it is impossible to tell
you what it is. Columnaris is also a serious problem and as long as it is
external and has not gone systemic PP can handle it, but you definately had
some kind of parasite which was impaired by the pesticides you did use.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:22:18 +0000
From: "Sheep Groper" <shep...@posgate.acis.com.au>
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Thanks so much for your reply!
Message-Id: <1997091113...@posgate.acis.com.au>

> Thanks! That's exactly what I am going for!!! Now let's just hope
> husband remembers what he needs to do for them (or not do in the case of
> feeding... my mom keeps insisting they will die if I don't feed them
> every day!!!)
> K

What you could do is say that *that* particular food is super
strength concentrated food and one flake is equivalent to a small
handful of their regular food. That might set them thinking along the
lines of "very small amounts".

Of course you must keep a straight face while saying this . . .

XxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxX
Jealousy's a curse
But Groping sheep is worse
Unless you have a hearse the Great Tree

- It's kind of hard to cuddle with a fish
- Not in a bathtub the Naked Truth
shep...@posgate.apana.org.au
Suburban Shepherd in Canberra, Australia's capital city. First frost 14 March
temporary change from drought to flooding rains.
XxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:08:02 -0700
From: Chris....@clorox.com (Chris Choffin)
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: [ngf] was:controlling growth
Message-Id: <000BD90...@clorox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

I usually stay away from this sort of issue, but I have to add my two cents in
on this one...

I have been a vegetarian for years, for many reasons which I will not go into
here. I eat no red meat, poultry, fish or seafood. The human body does not
require meat, and is probably even better off without it.

However, I would never impose this onto my dogs or my fish. Their bodies have
entirely different requirements, and I think it would be cruel to restrict their
diet in a way that denies them the full range of nutrients they need to live a
long, healthy life.

I am a vegetarian. My dogs and fish are not. It's got nothing to do with not
practicing what I preach. It has everything to do with respecting the needs of
the lives I'm responsible for, and providing for each according to it's needs.

Christine

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: [gf] Re: controlling growth
Author: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu at Internet
Date: 9/11/97 12:59 AM


I don't care to what degree of a vegetarian you claim to be, if you feed your
Goldfish anything other than just vegetable, then you are not practicing what
you preach...-------Dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:45:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: BErne...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Help, please.
Message-ID: <97091110435...@emout04.mail.aol.com>

>Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph and
>temp are all normal and stable. Nothing has changed in the tank for
>over a month. I'm really baffled as to where this came from!

Try increasing water changes to get really "pure" water in there. Sometimes
they bloat from a long slow exposure to water problems, sometimes
nutritional, diseases such as kidney/liver. Feed a good varied diet. Observe
for any signs of internal problems. Keep salt content low if the fish is
bloated. None is even better, but not deleted quickly, over a series of
changes is best.
Good luck,
Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:52:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: SnoT...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: controlling growth
Message-ID: <970911105036...@emout05.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 9/11/97 5:04:26 AM, you wrote:

<<Oh come on, fish are not people. You are inflicted with what is known as
the
"Bambi syndrome". >>

Getting a bit defensive there Dave. Is this thread hitting a bit close to
home?

Maybe I have the "Bambi syndrome", maybe I don't. Personally I think I'm
afflicted with "care and compassion for ALL living creatures" syndrome, but
that's just my take on it. Just because they are not people, does that mean
they deserve second rate care?

Let me ask you this Dave, would YOU drive 260 miles each way to get medical
care for your fish? I bet not. But you know what? I did. I'm NOT tooting my
own horn here, just giving you an example of the level of care all my pets
get.

<<If you feed your fish any food that contains much protein it comes from
animals. The first ingredient on the first commercial fish food I grabbed
said "fish meal." If you feed commercial fish food you are killing fish to
feed your Goldfish! I don't care to what degree of a vegetarian you claim to
be, if you feed your Goldfish anything other than just vegetable, then you
are not practicing what you preach. If you feed only vegetables to your
Goldfish then you are very susceptible to being labeled cruel and someone
that mistreats their Goldfish. >>

Here's the thing Dave. In nature it's eat or be eaten. Certain creatures need
the animal proteins and not every creature on this planet can become
vegetarian. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how "life" in the big
"prarie" is. Humans on the other hand have choices in what they eat, and the
ability to eat certain foods that create complete proteins so that we may
thrive. When is the last time you witnessed a goldfish sucking down a glass
of milk after his peas and pasta to make a complete protein?

So by your standards I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Lets be
realistic here Dave. I do what you can to improve the world for ALL living
creatures. Those that actually know me from more than just threads on a
newsgroup know you are WAY off base in your assement of me.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 9:57:00 -0500
From: John Och <John...@westgroup.com>
To: <gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply
Message-Id: <34181523.AB...@westlan.com>

<< Also can't find much on gill mites in my books = what exactly are
they? >>
There is no such thing, that is why you can't find it.

I'm sure the store owner just gapped out for a second when telling
about gill mites as well*probably meaning to say flukes. Anyhow, one
thing to be concerned with is that on young fry/fish, even after you
have killed the gill flukes, the swelling etc caused by the flukes
may/will have permantly disfigured the gills giving them a too short
or curled look. I've had it happens several times*the fry had gill
flukes which you manage to cure and when they up into the 1" or
greater range in size you can see the damaged gill plates. A real
heartbreaker!
Regards,
John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:05:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ree...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Help, please.
Message-ID: <97091111024...@emout07.mail.aol.com>

I believe i remember someone getting over Dropsy recently by using
Tetracycline flakes, raising the temp, and epson salt. Who was this?
JoAnn, do you remember?

Sue

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:07:53 -0400
From: "S.Penner" <spe...@warplink.com>
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Peat moss
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.1997091...@warplink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have read a few of the letters refering to peat moss to bring down ph
in ponds. My question is, is it processed peat or live moss? I had a pond
in my yard and I had live moss growing around one edge. I put it there as
it was readily available where I lived (called muskeg there). It is
sterile, floats on the water and makes one heck of a good water scrubber. I
didn't notice if the fish munched on it or not but it didn't seem to get
chewed up. Has anyone else ever thought of doing this? Is there any reason
why it shouldn't be done?

Thanx S.P.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:08:11 -0400
From: Paul Mitsis <pmi...@nova.sarnoff.com>
To: "'gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu'" <gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Salt and edema (was: Help, please.)
Message-ID: <01BCBEA2.FE6...@seq.sarnoff.com>

Ok folks,

I'm suddenly very confused. I always thought that when a fish has bloating
problems (i.e. as a result of other conditions, or kidney problems) it was
better to add salt to the water. Increasing the salt content (osmolarity if
you like) of the water would make it easier for the fish to get rid of the
excess water (sort of sucking the excess water out) in it's system. This
always made reasonable sense to me. Lately I've been seeing exactly the
opposite posted on the list. Can anyone help me out and explain why you
want to lower salt when the fish is retaining water? Is this a function of
the particular cause of the edema (kidney problems vs other infections)?
Thanks for any help here.

Paul M.


From: BErne...@aol.com [SMTP:BErne...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 1997 10:46 AM
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: [gf] Re: Help, please.


<snip> Keep salt content low if the fish is
bloated. None is even better, but not deleted quickly, over a series of
changes is best.
Good luck,
Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:27:47 -0400
From: "Edward M. Fisher"<edward...@unn.unisys.com>
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Ryukin with Body Growths
Message-ID: <8525650F.0...@bblnmta.unisys.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello everyone!

I have a ryukin that has several rice-shaped growths on it and I don't
quite know how to
treat it. The fish is approximately 3 " head to tail and the growths are
about 3/8 of an inch
long. One is on its body, just below the dorsal fin, under the scales.
The other is vertical on
the leading edge of the dorsal fin. They have been there for about three
weeks, and the fish
does not seem to be bothered by them. The scales are laying flat over the
growth, with
no sign of distention, except for the lump of the growth itself.

Amonia levels, nitrate and nitrite leves are zero and the ph is 7.4.
Water temperature is
maintained at 78 F and changed 25% every two weeks. The 55gal tank has
been stable
with above parameters for the past 3 months.

If anyone has ever experienced this , I would greatly appreciate hearing
how you treated
these growts and what the oucome was.

Have a great Fall !

Eddie F

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:07:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ryukin with Body Growths
Message-ID: <97091112063...@emout01.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 11:29:02 EDT, edward...@unn.unisys.com
writes:

<< If anyone has ever experienced this , I would greatly appreciate hearing
how you treated
these growts and what the oucome was.
>>
Hi Eddie,
yes, I have had the problem and unfortunately a lot of low grade excuse me, I
mean shop grade fish are very prone to neoplasia. Most of the time the
neoplasm is totally benign but in a few cases it is not. Removal often times
proves to be fatal, although I have removed some will no ill effects only to
have them reoccur with weeks after the removal. Keep an eye on them to make
sure they are not dormant argulus just waiting to pop out, if not there is
very little you can do. I am sorry, and hope this helps.
Regards,
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:08:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Help, please.
Message-ID: <97091112073...@emout17.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 03:19:02 EDT, mica...@earthlink.net writes:

<< Today a few others started acting funny too! How should I treat this? >>

First check his mouth for a rock! Second check his gills, color is most
important second is are they well defined or all stuck together. Next check
his anal port, is it wide and bloody looking, if so press gently on the tummy
area and take note of the fluid color that is being excreted, if none make
note of that also. Also is the tummy area soft and mushy. Check the slime
coat is it heavy and sticky. What is his position in the tank, in other
words is he at the top piping for air, is he breathing hard, is he at the
bottom etc? If you are not sure examine one of your fish that has no problem
to see how these things are on them then check your sick fish for a
comparison.

<< What meds? What method?>>

This depends on the answers to the above questions.

<<Should I dose the whole tank to be safe? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph
and
temp are all normal and stable. >>

This again depends on the answers to the first questions.
Regards,
Jo Ann aka/Laz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:09:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Salt and edema (was: Help, please.)
Message-ID: <970911120628...@emout19.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 11:12:44 EDT, you write:

<< Can anyone help me out and explain why you
want to lower salt when the fish is retaining water? Is this a function of
the particular cause of the edema (kidney problems vs other infections)?
Thanks for any help here. >>
Hey Paul,
I have found out the past year that increasing the salt in an edemic
condition, appears to make fluid retention excessive to the fish. Reducing
actual salt content and utilizing epsom salt appears to reduce this condition
when used in conjuction with frequent water changes. It stands to reason if
salt produces this condition in humans then it is theoretically possible is
does the same in fish. I can't tell you the specifics why's but I do know I
have had favorable results in case after case of this particular problem by
using the above mentioned process. Salt is a great healer when it comes to
lesions and ruptures of the skin and controlling parasites, also the fact
that all carp retain a 1% body salt that needs replacing is a big factor. We
are talking purging the fluid content of the body not maintaining body salts
here, also I have read recently (and don't ask where cause I can't remember)
that epsom salt is being used in drawing off toxins from people who are
trying to quit smoking and apparently with great success, so I incorporated
it into my procedure and as I said have found extremel favorable results.
Heat also appears to do much in the way of reducing the fluids. I wish I
had a more scientific explanation for you but at this time the process is
still in the infancy stage and needs a lot more conformation to be a proven
method. Hope this helps. Change and new procedures are what this is all
about and I for one am willing to risk change to further the betterment of
fish health.
Regards,
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:09:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply
Message-ID: <97091112072...@emout14.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 11:04:14 EDT, John...@westgroup.com writes:

<< I'm sure the store owner just gapped out for a second when telling
about gill mites as well*probably meaning to say flukes. >>
While this may be a fact John unfortunately ignorance is the biggy, I can't
for one understand how anyone can handle a product and not know at least some
of the basics. If they would just take the time to know their product and
know some procedures then we could stop a lot of this heartbreak for newbies
happening, the old stigmatta ways have got to go, my best customer is someone
who knows what they are doing and is willing to learn, cause I am willing to
teach.
Regards,
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:31:22 -0400
From: "Edward M. Fisher"<edward...@unn.unisys.com>
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ryukin with Body Growths
Message-ID: <8525650F.0...@bblnmta.unisys.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Jo Ann,

Thanks for responding, If it is neoplasia, are the other fish in the
tank in danger of contracting
the same thing? Should I quarantine the ryukin? He's my oldest fish, one
of the first that I got into
the hobby with, a real survivor if you know what I mean. If it,s
terminal, how long can I
expect to keep him around.


Eddie

,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:30:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Trudy Pogue <tpo...@genie.esu10.k12.ne.us>
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ryukin with Body Growths
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970911...@genie.esu10.k12.ne.us>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jo Ann,

Neoplasm means tumor??? So benign ones will just distract from the
appearance unless their positions interfere with vision, gill function,
etc? And if they're cancerous, eventually it means the loss of the fish.

Trudy

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 Lazul...@aol.com wrote:

> and unfortunately a lot of low grade excuse me, I
> mean shop grade fish are very prone to neoplasia. Most of the time the
> neoplasm is totally benign but in a few cases it is not. Removal often times
> proves to be fatal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:59:00 -0500
From: John Och <John...@westgroup.com>
To: <gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply -Reply
Message-Id: <341831AA.AB...@westlan.com>

<< I'm sure the store owner just gapped out for a second when telling
about gill mites as well*probably meaning to say flukes. >>
JoAnn replies:

While this may be a fact John unfortunately ignorance is the biggy, I
can't
for one understand how anyone can handle a product and not know at
least some
of the basics.

Totally agree with you. Most of these pet stores just hire teenage
help to work the fish area and they are the worst. Its really bad
when you decide they actually do have a fish you would like to buy
and it takes them 15 minutes to catch it with a net! Actually, two
weeks ago I saw a nice little black moor for $2 in one of these
stores that I wanted to buy and the person kept trying to catch it
(don't you just want to grap the net out of their hands sometimes)
and ended up squishing the poor fish against the glass! I told her I
would take the poor thing anyhow but it died the next day. I hate
looking at the goldfish section in most places as the fish are always
mislabeled and sick. In my area the options are to search these lousy
stores for something, mail order some nice fish which I can't afford
at this time, or breed whatever you got at home which is what I end
up doing. I haven't mail ordered any fish for years*the fish on your
web site all look wonderful.

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:02:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ryukin with Body Growths
Message-ID: <97091113013...@emout03.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 12:34:19 EDT, edward...@unn.unisys.com
writes:

<< Thanks for responding, If it is neoplasia, are the other fish in the
tank in danger of contracting>>
I haven't found it to be contagious but I have only had that one run at it,
and several of the fish had it on them. But the others in the tank did not
seem affected and hopefully are still booking in their new homes.

<< Should I quarantine the ryukin? >>
I don't think it is necessary.

<<He's my oldest fish, one of the first that I got into
the hobby with, a real survivor if you know what I mean. If it,s
terminal, how long can I expect to keep him around.>>
The only mortality I had was with the fish I had to remove the tumors from,
and quite frankly speaking, didn't know what I was doing. Reading procedure
out of a book is definately not the same as doing it, and I may have cut to
deep or did something wrong in the procedure. After about the tenth time I
was actually getting quite good at it and those are the fish that survived
but did have reoccurances. Some of the fish that I did not remove them from
appeared no worse the wear from the tumors and actually acted quite normal,
just looked bad.
Regards,
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:07:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ryukin with Body Growths
Message-ID: <97091113044...@emout11.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 12:35:57 EDT, tpo...@genie.esu10.k12.ne.us
writes:

<< Neoplasm means tumor??? So benign ones will just distract from the
appearance unless their positions interfere with vision, gill function,
etc? And if they're cancerous, eventually it means the loss of the fish.
>>
I know that Trudy, I am not real good at explaining things in laymen terms so
am trying to keep it as simplistic as I can so that people understand, when I
get off on the tech's I lose people so forgive me if my explains aren't
quite what they should be, that is why we have other people on the line to
clean up my grammatical and dictionary type explains. Heh, heh, giggle.
Regards,
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:33:40 +0000
From: Jessica <jmi...@adhoc.com>
To: so...@pitnet.net
CC: goldfish diagest <gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: your accidental group posting
Message-ID: <3417D7...@adhoc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oh for heaven's sake, Ingrid. So you slammed the GFSA. So what? You were
being honest. I think everyone here appreciates your advice enough that
we'd prefer you to be in on our discussions. Seriously. That's what
these discussions are for. Ok, maybe you'd have taken a different tone
if you were mailing to the group. Don't worry too much about it. I for
one would rather have you honest and around. Really. I know I haven't
been on the list long, but I think others would agree with me.
Jessica

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:32:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lazul...@aol.com
To: gold...@once-ler.cs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: GF: Gill Mites -Reply -Reply
Message-ID: <97091116312...@emout17.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-09-11 13:08:13 EDT, John...@westgroup.com writes:

<< I wanted to buy and the person kept trying to catch it
(don't you just want to grap the net out of their hands sometimes)
and ended up squishing the poor fish against the glass! I told her I
would take the poor thing anyhow but it died the next day. >>
How tragic, unfortunately I think I would have grabbed the net and said let
me show you how this should be done. But that is the way I am, you are only
ignorant if you don't ask, I abore stupidity, ignorance can be unlearned,
heh, heh, giggle.
Jo Ann

--------------------------------
End of goldfish-d Digest V97 Issue #446
***************************************


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