New tank, African cichlids
Will
cichlids. I have a few questions.
My local water supply is sufficiently hard and alakaline but I have a
softener. The only outlet with unsoftened water is outside the house and
hauling buckets outside in the dead of a Minnesota winter might not be a
good idea for me or my pipes. Water from the softener is VERY low in
general hardness, about 1 degree on the german scale, but carbonate
hardness is about 14 degrees. The pH is 7.8. So, is the general hardness
likely to be a problem? My LFS says no. The pH and carbonate hardness are
much more important.
I'd also like opinions on some stocking scenarios.
Malawian:
1 Male, 2 female Sciaenochromis ahli
3 yellow Labidochromis caeruleus
3 Labeotropheus trewavasae 1 male, 2 female
Tanganyikan:
3 Julidichromis ornatus
3 Neolamprologus brichardi
3 Neolamprologus leleupi
The only ones I'm not sure I can find locally are the leleupi. I might also
be able to find aulonocara for the Malawi setup.
These are all on the more tractable side of the rift lake cichlid behavior
spectrum. I'm trying to avoid constant warfare. (The only mbuna is the
Lab).
Given these scenarios, would it be reasonable for me to add a species at a
time as the aquarium cycles or should I cycle it before hand with something
else, add all fish at once, and carefully monitor chemistry?
Would adding boeseman or yellow rainbows really help moderate aggression?
Would the rainbows likely be harassed? Would they be good for cycling?
Would congo tetras be a better choice?
Thanks in advance,
Will
--
ROT13 email address to reply. Or just use the NG.
Mephistopheles
news:upbonp4...@corp.supernews.com:
> I'm setting up a 55g with the intent of keeping Tanganyikan or
> Malawian cichlids. I have a few questions.
>
[snip]
>
> I'd also like opinions on some stocking scenarios.
>
> Malawian:
> 1 Male, 2 female Sciaenochromis ahli
These prefer a lot of swimming room. (The actual name is probably
Sciaenochromis fryeri -- the true ahli are very rare). They will also get
too large for a 55 gallon. If you can find Labidochromis freibergi
(males look like a miniature zebra), they would be close to ideal because
they are small and relatively peaceful. There are also other small
Labidochromis like the freibergi, if you can find them.
> 3 yellow Labidochromis caeruleus
> 3 Labeotropheus trewavasae 1 male, 2 female
The trewavasae will also probably get too big eventually. They are mbuna
and can be aggressive, especially in a tank that size. I had a
labeotropheus fuelleborni in a 55 and made the mistake of temporarily
housing two fryeri with it. Before I knew what was going on, the
fuelleborni had killed both fryeri. As a general rule, it is better to
keep mbuna with other mbuna; and to keep haplochromines, such as the
fryeri, with other haps.
>
> Tanganyikan:
> 3 Julidichromis ornatus
> 3 Neolamprologus brichardi
> 3 Neolamprologus leleupi
When choosing between Malawis and Tanganyikans, I think 55 gallons are
best suited to Tanganyikan tanks, since rock-dwelling Tanganyikans are
less active, usually not as large, and grow slowly. Since Tanganyikans
are usually monogamous (brichardi are sometimes an exception), trios
often get reduced to duos. If you are buying small fish, you might
consider getting four instead -- or just remove extras once you get a
pair. If you have problems with brichardi aggression, you might also
switch to a large group, e.g. 10. Otherwise, looks like a good plan. Be
sure to put lots of rocks in your tank. Stack them almost to the top in
the back -- the fish should really appreciate a vertical cliff like this.
You might also add some goby cichlids, if you can find them, as well as
calvus or compressiceps. I am sure Amateur will give his usual excellent
advice and recommend 50 other species you can keep (few of which will be
available locally). ;-)
>
> The only ones I'm not sure I can find locally are the leleupi. I
> might also be able to find aulonocara for the Malawi setup.
>
> These are all on the more tractable side of the rift lake cichlid
> behavior spectrum. I'm trying to avoid constant warfare. (The only
> mbuna is the Lab).
As I said above, the trewavasae are also mbuna. (Mbuna are comprised
primarily of the genera Labidochromis, Pseudotropheus, Melanochromis,
Cynotilapia, Iodotropheus, and Labeotropheus).
>
> Given these scenarios, would it be reasonable for me to add a species
> at a time as the aquarium cycles or should I cycle it before hand with
> something else, add all fish at once, and carefully monitor chemistry?
Adding them all at once will reduce aggression problems, since
established fish tend to resent newcomers. However, you definitely want
to get cycling done before adding a lot of fish. Perhaps you could add
your dither fish to cycle the tank. Alternatively, The leleupi are very
tough, and should survive cycling; but they can also be territorial.
[Snip]
Meph
Jim & Linda Brown
Will <jfgbp...@acm.org> wrote in message
news:upbonp4...@corp.supernews.com...
> I'm setting up a 55g with the intent of keeping Tanganyikan or Malawian
> cichlids. I have a few questions.
>
> My local water supply is sufficiently hard and alakaline but I have a
> softener. The only outlet with unsoftened water is outside the house and
> hauling buckets outside in the dead of a Minnesota winter might not be a
> good idea for me or my pipes. Water from the softener is VERY low in
> general hardness, about 1 degree on the german scale, but carbonate
> hardness is about 14 degrees. The pH is 7.8. So, is the general hardness
> likely to be a problem? My LFS says no. The pH and carbonate hardness
are
> much more important.
>
I leave the Rift Lake cichlid questions to those more qualified to answer.
As to your water, does your softener have a bypass valve that would allow
you to temporarily disconnect the softener when using water for your tank?
If not, is there room for a plumber to install a dedicated valve or tap for
you before the main water supply enters the softener?
You may also want to try some of the specialty salts for Rift Lake cichlids
to replenish the hardness. Then there is filtering over crushed coral, or
adding a chunk of Plaster of Paris or a host of other media that would do
the same thing. Of course, monitoring of the water would be very important.
Jim
Amateur
> cichlids. I have a few questions.
>
> My local water supply is sufficiently hard and alakaline but I have a
> softener. The only outlet with unsoftened water is outside the house and
> hauling buckets outside in the dead of a Minnesota winter might not be a
> good idea for me or my pipes. Water from the softener is VERY low in
> general hardness, about 1 degree on the german scale, but carbonate
> hardness is about 14 degrees. The pH is 7.8. So, is the general hardness
> likely to be a problem? My LFS says no. The pH and carbonate hardness
are
> much more important.
>
lines, water hardness will increase over time. I'm not a chemist or water
expert, but I believe water hardness is important to maintain a steady ph.
So with a 7.8 pH and a high carbonate hardness, you should be fine.
> I'd also like opinions on some stocking scenarios.
>
> Malawian:
> 1 Male, 2 female Sciaenochromis ahli
> 3 yellow Labidochromis caeruleus
> 3 Labeotropheus trewavasae 1 male, 2 female
>
For the Malawi fish. In a 55 gallon tank, I'd recommend putting in 20 up to
30 fish. This depending on species, etc. I'd make exceptions for some of the
easier going fish such as Auloncara, some of the Labidochromis, etc.
Otherwise, keeping a properly stocked tank is part of the balancing act at
keeping aggression down to a fish just watching it's own territory and not
patrolling the tank for something to kill. This mostly applies to Mbuna and
some of the Haps.
I'll echo Meph's reply on both the S. freyeri and the Labeotropheus
species. Both of which would be better suited in a larger tank. There are
other fish with coloration similair to the S. freyeri you could look into.
Many of the Copadichromis would be better suited in a 55 and have that shiny
blue color. You could get a Labidochromis hongi "Red Top" instead of the L.
trewavase for some of the same colorations. (Depending on species of L.
trewavasae you were considering. Both of these fish are fairly common and
should be available either locally or from an on-line distributor. I'd
research more into the Labids, Auloncara, Copadichromis species for the
Malawi set up. They're better suited for size and for dietary concerns.
> Tanganyikan:
> 3 Julidichromis ornatus
> 3 Neolamprologus brichardi
> 3 Neolamprologus leleupi
>
These fish should be fine for a Tanganyikan setup, although you'll be
leaving a lot of tank space unused. If you do go with three N. leleupi, go
1m/2f, although the male will only help defend the last group of fry sired,
leaving the first female to fend for herself. Could even see a death here
resulting in a pair. With the Julies, (any size), I'd go with a pair. For
the smaller species, like the ornatus, possibly two pair, but now you're
starting to crowd the substrate. The N. brichardi are beautiful evil little
fish. :) I'd consider something else for substrate spawners instead.
Consider the Altolamprologus species, (compressiceps or calvus in a 1m/2-3f
ratio)
In reply to Meph's comment.... :) You could consider the Eretmodus or
Spathodus species, but then I'd stay away from any of the Lamprologus
species, as they can be a bit hard on the Goby cichlids.
I'd also consider instead of keeping rainbows unhappily in an unplanted tank
(same with Congos) going with Paracyprichromis. About eight would go nice.
They'll take over the rest of the tank, add a nice splash of color and give
you activity always to look at when the substrate dwellers are sitting on
the bottom watching their neighbors wearily. They're a bit hardier than the
Cyprichromis and tend to move over more than just the top of the tank.
These, in case Meph wants some can be purchased on-line at Armke's,
www.ohiexhange.com/armke I think.
> The only ones I'm not sure I can find locally are the leleupi. I might
also
> be able to find aulonocara for the Malawi setup.
>
> These are all on the more tractable side of the rift lake cichlid behavior
> spectrum. I'm trying to avoid constant warfare. (The only mbuna is the
> Lab).
>
> Given these scenarios, would it be reasonable for me to add a species at a
> time as the aquarium cycles or should I cycle it before hand with
something
> else, add all fish at once, and carefully monitor chemistry?
>
Cycle the tank first, then add everything at once. If you have any tanks
already cycled this can help a lot in this process. Move some gravel, or
tank decorations to the new tank to help in cycle.
> Would adding boeseman or yellow rainbows really help moderate aggression?
> Would the rainbows likely be harassed? Would they be good for cycling?
> Would congo tetras be a better choice?
Neither is an optimal choice as far as the rainbows or congos are concerned.
I use both because I'm a big meanie. (Separate tanks.) With more than one
species in a tank, rainbows and congos become more useful in helping the
rest of the tank inhabitants relax by seeing other fish swim around happily.
(Too stupid to be wary of you.) So they come out more often. I haven't
found timidness to be a problem with the Mbuna or Haps. With the Auloncara
it can be, but only through a couple of feedings. If you use the
Cyprichromis and go with a Tanganyikan set up, they'd also be unneccesary.
They would be useful if you went with just the substrate spawners.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Will
>
>
> --
> ROT13 email address to reply. Or just use the NG.
Amateur
www.amateurcichlids.com
Will
Twenty to thirty fish sounds a bit more than I expected to keep. Don't most
of the labids, auloncara and copadichromis get up to around six inches?
That seems to be a pretty heavy bioload for a 55 gallon tank. I've seen
lots of yellow labs, exactly two auloncara and no copadichromis locally.
Most of the tanganyikans you mentioned can be hard to find too. Maybe I
need a field trip to the big city.
I guess my strategy is to start cycling with my dithers and when done, take
a trip and get everything at once. Thanks.
Will
Jamie D
I won't add too much to the excellent advice already given, just to say
check your water's pH after you have let it sit for a couple of hours. My
guess is that with the kH of 14, your pH will settle at around 8.0 - 8.2
after most of the CO2 has escaped to the atmosphere.
Jamie
~
Amateur
Most of the labids stay under five inches, average range being about 3"-5".
The Auloncara anywhere from 3" to very large, but the larger species have
been technically recategorized into the Trematocranus genus. The rest of the
Peacocks usually average out around 4" with a few exceptions. Most of the
Copadichromis species are a bit larger. 4" to say 7" in length. As I said
though, these fish are some of the more mild fish from Lake Malawi. With
these fish, if you were to keep these three genus together, I'd go more with
a trio of each, possibly two trios of the Labids. Add some synodonits into
the mix, possibly a pleco and your still looking at 15 - 18 fish.
20-30 fish would be for the Mbuna fish as overcrowding them is one of
the best ways to control the aggression. IMO. Five trios of various types of
Pseudotropheus for example, along with a couple of trios of labids. Or go
with the smaller Pseudo's. This makes it so the fish spend more time just
keeping an eye on their little piece of space, instead of swimming the
length of the tank looking for something to display dominance too. This is
all up to what you want to see in your tank. If you want less fish, you can
still do the Mbuna, but I'd recommend the Auloncara and milder cichlids
instead.
Amateur
Try looking into ordering online. Better assortment and you can get what you
want in one shot, instead of settling for what the LFS has in.
Will
> Try looking into ordering online. Better assortment and you can get what
> you want in one shot, instead of settling for what the LFS has in.
I can't exactly return fish that don't work out to an on-line dealer. Even
if I could, I'd still be out a boatload in shipping costs. Fortunately,
I'm close enough to a city with some good stores that I can take a day trip
to get more variety.
Thanks for your advice.
Amateur
> Amateur wrote:
>
> > Try looking into ordering online. Better assortment and you can get what
> > you want in one shot, instead of settling for what the LFS has in.
>
> I can't exactly return fish that don't work out to an on-line dealer.
Even
> if I could, I'd still be out a boatload in shipping costs. Fortunately,
> I'm close enough to a city with some good stores that I can take a day
trip
> to get more variety.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> Will
>
suggestion, as that was my next venture, since I can't find the fish I'm
looking for locally. I have the advantage at having a few tanks I can move
fish to if they don't work out. The other benefit to buying locally if
possible is, you see what you're getting and by asking just a couple of
questions at the LFS you can tell what type of store they are and what
quality your fish may be.
Good luck with your tank,
Keep us posted.
Amateur
Will
> Ahh, the old return problem. There is that. On-line purchasing was just a
> suggestion, as that was my next venture, since I can't find the fish I'm
> looking for locally. I have the advantage at having a few tanks I can move
> fish to if they don't work out. The other benefit to buying locally if
> possible is, you see what you're getting and by asking just a couple of
> questions at the LFS you can tell what type of store they are and what
> quality your fish may be.
> Good luck with your tank,
> Keep us posted.
> Amateur
I have a wife. She's tolerant of one or two tanks but if I shelled out a
ton of money on a dedicated fish room with big 100+ gallon tanks, I'd
probably be sleeping in the shed for a while. :)
I went ahead and started cycling with rainbows. I put in some fake plants
along with all of the rock work for their comfort. Yes, I know the fakes
are lousy but with some algae covering they look OK. Anyway, if the
rainbows are troublesome with the cichlids I can always get out the 20
gallon or trade them in.
Amateur
Fakes give you the look without the worry about them being dug up, or
rotting and clogging the filters. They don't do much for nitrates though. I
have rainbows in my 55 with my Tanganyikans and Auloncara. They seem happy
enough, although I'm sure they'd be happier in a nice planted tank... Maybe
in the future.
Amateur